Nichole: Are you feeling better?
Laurel: Yeah. I'm still congested and tired. But Do
Daniel: you need me to do a... If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands round a rousing
Laurel: No. Mission? I think that'll just make me more tired. Would you like me to use my last burst of energy on that?
Daniel: Talking about love and sex and power, all on PolyAmateur Hour. And then you drop dead.
Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Temporarily. It's a temporary deathbed.
Nichole: That's a nap. Yeah.
Daniel: I feel so weird about my new vape that I got. You should.
Laurel: Yeah. You should. It's disgraceful.
Daniel: I've gotten into a little bit of a nicotine habit as a hobby while I'm unemployed.
Laurel: Uh-huh. This is not like a new thing.
Daniel: I was intermittent before, and then I'm unemployed. And I'm like, you know what? I'm doing this as a protest. I'm gonna hurt my body.
Laurel: I'm gonna spend more money and hurt my body while I'm unemployed.
Nichole: The worst part is the name.
Daniel: Yeah. So it's a snickerdoodle flavored vape. I couldn't not. It's called the snickerdiddler.
Nichole: I'm just waiting for people to turn off the podcast now.
Laurel: Like, I know that it's not problematic, but it sounds problematic.
Daniel: It's problematic.
Laurel: It's problematic. To the Snickers in the world.
Daniel: Ew. I just imagine you get a fudgy finger.
Clip: Aw. And then I'm gonna stick my fingers back up in his ass, and then I'm gonna twirl them around and see if that make him giggle a little bit.
Nichole: So I'm in this conversation with this really high up person, and I'm talking about, like, future print.
Daniel: Kareem Abdul Jabbar?
Clip: I'm sorry, son, but you must have me confused with someone else. My name is Roger Murdoch. I'm the copilot.
Nichole: I was this person at work, this, like, big boss at work. Right? And we're talking about, like, the future planning of my role or whatever. And she was saying, like, yeah. That's why I asked you to do this and this and this.
Nichole: This has always been in the plan. I asked you to do this, and you're taking on more. And in my head, I was like, woah. You didn't ask me to do anything. I did this.
Nichole: And then immediately fucking thought of that dark crystal drop that you use all the time.
Clip: I I have done this. I have caught her.
Daniel: Just to be clear, did you bring her a Gelfling?
Nichole: In exchange for a promo? Yes.
Daniel: Yeah. So Nicole comes upstairs the other day. Right?
Laurel: And she's with a struggling Gelfling.
Clip: In a bag.
Laurel: And you're
Laurel: like, where did
Clip: you get that?
Daniel: By the way, sidebar, when I was a kid, my dad convinced me that oil of Olay, the, like, cosmetic product, was made from small creatures named Olays in France. Men in berets would run around and grab them and put them in a sack, and then they would come back and press them.
Nichole: That's so mean.
Laurel: This is where you get it from.
Daniel: It is. RIP weird dad. So Nicole comes upstairs, and she's like, okay. You can give me an I told you so. Immediately, I'm like, oh, they say they're probably gonna give you a promotion after all because she's always like, I don't think they're gonna give me a promotion anytime soon.
Daniel: Things are looking very bleak. Why? Why is this happening to you? Why? And this time she comes up, she says, you can give me an I told you so.
Daniel: And I say, babe, whenever you say that, I don't listen anymore. I'm not listening to Nicole when she goes, I'm not gonna get a promotion.
Laurel: Okay.
Daniel: So and so is going to break up with me.
Nichole: What he actually said was, babe, when you tell me those things, I just choose not to believe you.
Daniel: No. I listen
Nichole: You listen.
Daniel: And dismiss.
Nichole: Correct. I don't think we can talk about my promo though on the podcast because we don't know if it's actually gonna happen.
Laurel: Change it.
Daniel: We never know. But I invite you to not knock on wood and join me in wonderful uncertainty as we move towards ERP. No. I have not knocked on wood once since I really did ERP. ERP is exposure response prevention.
Daniel: It's for OCD. My OCD. And so whenever I say something good might happen, I do not knock on wood.
Laurel: Is that what knock on wood came from? It's just some OCD person's weird ritualization of...
Daniel: Yes. But it's also where the Talmud came from. OCD?
Nichole: Yeah. That's
Laurel: fair. Wait. Is knocking on wood like a... Is that a spiritual thing?
Daniel: Like the the line between superstition and religion to me is pretty blurry.
Laurel: Yes. I just didn't know if there was actually some like biblical roots to it.
Nichole: They didn't have wood in the Bible.
Daniel: I was like, okay. I was trying to think of instances of wood in the Bible. Mhmm. Mostly trees. Several.
Daniel: Mostly trees. So, like, Eve goes up to the tree.
Nichole: Tree, burning bush, ark.
Daniel: Oh, ark. That's a good one.
Nichole: Crucifixion.
Daniel: What book of fiction is that from?
Nichole: They got wood in the
Laurel: New Testament. The of wood in the New Testament.
Nichole: I think it was a gift from Jesus.
Laurel: Jesus brings you his wood.
Daniel: Yay. Believe in me and ye shall find peace. Well, that explains why he looks so damn sexy.
Laurel: I know. Jesus.
Nichole: Are you blushing, Laurel?
Daniel: Laurel is getting her energy back today in the weirdest way possible. She suddenly gets a glow when she starts talking about Jesus boner.
Nichole: Is the Italian side Catholic for you?
Laurel: Yeah.
Nichole: Yeah. That figures.
Laurel: Yeah. Go figure. That's where my horny for Jesus side comes from.
Nichole: And your knowledge of baby...
Laurel: Yeah. My baby turnstiles. Yeah. Baby Susan's. Oh,
Daniel: I've been wanting to talk about the baby turnstile again. Yeah. Okay. Actually, several weeks ago, we talked about I don't remember why exactly how there were these things in the walls of old churches where you would put a baby and they would take it anonymously. And we kind of guessed that it was like a lazy Susan.
Daniel: Yeah. So I went and did like some research.
Nichole: Okay.
Daniel: And it was like a Ferris wheel inside a barrel for babies. What?
Nichole: So this baby collecting barrel
Daniel: Yes. Is where? At every church throughout fucking Christendom for hundreds of years.
Nichole: In front or in the church?
Daniel: It's like around back. It's in the
Laurel: alley. Yeah.
Daniel: And you go there with your baby that you wanna give away. You put it in the open side of the barrel facing you.
Nichole: Okay.
Daniel: In the tray, you ring a bell and then an old mother superior or whatever comes around and then turns the crank and then
Laurel: Yeah.
Nichole: Retrieves the baby from the other That is crazier than the baby lazy Susan.
Laurel: It is. It's more engineering.
Daniel: Women would, if they couldn't afford to raise the baby, would give the baby to the church. And then they would get jobs as nurse maids where they would nurse other babies, but they weren't allowed to nurse their own babies.
Laurel: I just don't understand. What is the purpose of putting your baby on the baby Susan Ferris wheel anonymously to then just go in and for them to know that you can't nurse your The own anonymity is gone.
Nichole: Yeah. The whole point of the baby barrel is anonymity.
Daniel: I don't know what these priests were thinking. I was completely uninvolved with this.
Laurel: I don't believe you.
Daniel: I was wandering in a desert or in a ghetto somewhere.
Laurel: Uh-huh.
Daniel: I might point out this resulted in at its peak, an eighty percent mortality rate for these babies because they all got sick and stuff.
Laurel: Because you're putting all the sick babies in one probably barrel.
Daniel: Yeah. You can't put all your babies in one barrel.
Laurel: Not all your sick babies.
Daniel: No. So when I was looking for like videos to explain what the hell this was, like the first 10 results were from anti abortion organizations that were holding this system up as an example of saving babies, like the church saving babies for a thousand years.
Laurel: Wow. I could go off on this in so many directions.
Daniel: Welcome to PolyAmateur Hour.
Laurel: I'm Laurel. I'm Nicole.
Daniel: I'm Daniel.
Laurel: And this is Modern Marvels of the Catholic Church.
Daniel: So I guess they're wanting to bring back the baby barrel. I don't know.
Laurel: I mean, on one hand Nope. Nope. Never mind.
Nichole: No no hands to
Laurel: be had. There's no hands.
Daniel: They're unlike the baby barrel. There's only one side to this.
Laurel: Yeah. And it's no.
Nichole: Wow. I didn't know. Thank you for doing that research.
Daniel: Yes. I'm sorry as well.
Nichole: What was the search term though?
Laurel: Baby Susan. Oh, the other thing that I found
Daniel: out is the thing has a name.
Nichole: What is it?
Daniel: The foundling wheel.
Laurel: The foundling
Clip: Oh my god.
Nichole: Oh. Wow. Laurel, you brought this into our lives.
Clip: I I have done this.
Laurel: It's adorable. I don't know what you're talking about.
Daniel: It honestly sounds more like something that you would go to decide which foundling you were going to adopt.
Nichole: You spin the foundling
Daniel: wheel. There
Laurel: it goes. Trying to beat 80¢, the father to be. Is this your first child? Yes. First time around.
Laurel: I'm going to incorporate the foundling wheel into the romantasy that I'm writing now.
Daniel: That'll get people turned on.
Laurel: I don't think it'll it'll be quite the foundling wheel that... Well, maybe it will be. There's an evil presence because there has to be an evil presence.
Daniel: An evil priest. He's just eating them. He unhinges his jaw.
Nichole: And that's just a priest.
Daniel: Yeah. Let's put some blood libel on the Christians for a change.
Laurel: I was
Nichole: just saying there are plenty of documentaries.
Laurel: I'm just imagining the documentary on Netflix with the priest that unhinges his jaw and swallows babies.
Nichole: It's eight parts.
Daniel: They interview him in a very, like, serious, like, hushed tone.
Nichole: Mhmm.
Daniel: And he's like
Laurel: Why would I deceive you?
Daniel: And with his foot Oh. He's operating a fountain. The fountain. Okay.
Clip: Good chat.
Daniel: Well, you know who definitely has not spent a lot of time eating babies on the other side of a foundling wheel?
Nichole: I can't possibly think of who that is. Who? Who?
Laurel: Because I know I've done it. Who hasn't? A Jewish comedian and published author?
Daniel: That's right. I'm talking about Mindy Rath, author, storyteller. We had a wonderful conversation with Mindy.
Laurel: We got deep. We got sober. And we got silly again.
Nichole: I cried.
Laurel: I laughed. And I looked at both of you wondering what are these emotions? Do I mirror them or not?
Daniel: So if you would all like to laugh, cry, and stare, Stick around. Let's roll some tape.
Mindy Raf: You're the head of this holocast polycule. You just tell me what's up. I'm gonna defer defer to whoever has the audio is in charge.
Daniel: You heard that? Mindy said, I am the head of the polycule. Just
Mindy Raf: for the audio, though.
Laurel: Oh god. That's also just too much power, I feel like. Yeah.
Mindy Raf: Is it? I'm sorry. I didn't mean to,
Nichole: like, change the
Laurel: Listen. You probably are, Lino.
Laurel: Sore subject.
Nichole: We're gonna run our newsletter.
Laurel: Recording a backup. It's done. I've decided to take charge.
Daniel: Thank you. Somebody needed to.
Laurel: If you need a tech dom, I'll be your tech dom.
Laurel: Okay?
Daniel: If you can herd these cats, you can have them.
Nichole: That's how cat ownership works. Right?
Clip: Yeah. Yep.
Nichole: If you can herd the cat into your house, you get the cat.
Laurel: That is kinda how it works.
Mindy Raf: Not the first time I've joined a podcast and just been offered cats as a metaphor.
Mindy Raf: I don't know what. I'm sorry you have a cold, Laurel.
Mindy Raf: I have allergies today too, so I'm like, I get it. But I'm sounding extra nasal, so I'll do it.
Laurel: This week on Nasalcast.
Laurel: We're talking about unicorns. I have so many rules.
Daniel: I'm looking for a unicorn who is tolerant and understanding about my allergies.
Laurel: Aw. Aw. That's like the most reasonable thing to ask of a unicorn if you like.
Nichole: Like it's a two.
Daniel: You say this until you see the dating profile that's like, no dogs whatsoever.
Nichole: Because they're allergic. Because they're allergic?
Mindy Raf: Yeah. Yeah. We're just like, we're not a match. I'm like, no scallops whatsoever. If you're raising scallops, leave me the fuck alone.
Laurel: Yeah. I think regardless of your sexual preference or relationship designer identity, you should be able to live and not die of anaphylactic shock.
Laurel: This is a bold take. Mindy, are you sure you wanna stand by this on recorded audio?
Laurel: I don't want my partner
Laurel: to dive anaphylactic shock.
Laurel: I don't know Everyone has their kinks, but
Laurel: none of my business.
Nichole: My kink is EpiPen.
Laurel: Yeah. I don't kink shame. I think the EpiPen's a little much. I think we can just pretend. We can pretend I meant...
Laurel: Like, it's a fantasy. Why don't we do, like, anaphylactic fantasy?
Laurel: I'm gonna start proposing this as new role play.
Nichole: Anaphylactic fantasy. Anaphylantasy.
Laurel: You want a thalantasy.
Daniel: You would just spring it on me.
Laurel: Like, I'll just start pretending that I'm,
Nichole: like Yeah.
Daniel: Like, your airway is closing, and you would
Laurel: This is true. I would do that
Nichole: to you.
Daniel: Yeah. You would.
Laurel: Do you consent to the nonconsensual springing on of the scene? Yeah. Because then you're not springing it on.
Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Yeah.
Nichole: It's a whole thing with these two.
Laurel: Their relationship is so problematic. They just...
Nichole: They do bits at each other during sex, and it's adorable and lovely for them.
Daniel: Do you ever do any sex bits, Mindy? Have you ever have you ever done a sex bit on someone?
Laurel: Oh,
Song: sex bits, bits, bits, eat them up. Yum. Sex bits, sex bits, sex bits, eat them up. Yum. Wait till
Daniel: you see my bits. I
Mindy Raf: wanna say no, I don't do bits. And, like, when I'm in an intimate relationship, I'm a totally different person, and I'm just, like, seriously there to fuck. But, no, I'm a stand up, and I have an audience of one or two. I'm obviously... No.
Mindy Raf: I'm a talker, and I've been told that I talk a lot. So I'm sure a bit... Sort of setup has come out. Have I done a punchline? That's not that's not my journey.
Laurel: That's not for me to decide.
Daniel: You're you're more like modernist take. It's like sketches that have no beginning or no end. It's like mister show.
Laurel: Oh, yeah. Existential sketch is really just life. But I'm sure I've tried to make my partners laugh and or deflect it from my own dysregulation at some point during the intimacy process. There's just no way. Yeah.
Mindy Raf: I think I did a Barbra Streisand impression once. Like, not even Yes. Foreplay. Like, I think I was, like, fully topping and totally went into a Papa,
Laurel: can you hear me? Papa, can you see me? Papa, can you find me in in the the night? Night?
Laurel: So, yes, of course I do
Laurel: bet. Genius. Genius.
Daniel: I got one to share that I've been meaning to share now that we're doing sex bits.
Laurel: Oh, okay. Surprise segment. This is one that
Daniel: may only be legible to Jews. Nancy and I Uh-huh. Were were doing it. And I was like, say please or whatever.
Laurel: And she
Daniel: was like, please. And then I'm like, say please again. And she just like... She says, please. And I, you know, and and I was like a third time, and she says, please, rabbi.
Laurel: Oh my god. Well
Laurel: played, Nancy. Well played.
Daniel: So you have been one of the earliest out Poly comedians that we know of. And so we've wanted you on the pod for a while.
Laurel: Yeah. Oh, amazing.
Daniel: But we didn't feel like we were good enough until recently.
Laurel: So Yeah. Find... We
Laurel: finally energy I like with my podcast.
Laurel: Aw. But we wanted to know, like,
Daniel: was this part of your comic identity from, like, the very beginning?
Mindy Raf: Yeah. I've always talked about my life on stage pretty honestly. I would say when I first started, I didn't wanna talk about it too much because I didn't feel like I had enough grasp to make it funny. I was, like, in the weeds Mm-mm. Of just figuring out, like, what...
Mindy Raf: What's going on? I didn't wanna represent it in a way where I wasn't standing on a really solid ground because I feel like when you're making jokes about something that's not mainstream
Laurel: Yeah.
Laurel: You have a slight responsibility to, like, really know your POV
Daniel: Mhmm.
Mindy Raf: On it because people tend to think we're monolith. And I wasn't sure what was funny about it because I was like, really like, what? But I would say, yeah, within, like, the first couple years, I started talking about it publicly. And then I did a solo show about it in, like, 2016 that ran for a couple years.
Daniel: Wow. Was it ever filmed?
Laurel: I wish. I have a really... Like, a couple, like, okay recordings, but it was never done with an intent of sharing. It was, like, creative reference, and I never... And the audio's okay.
Laurel: I would love to share it. It doesn't feel like me anymore in terms of
Daniel: Yeah.
Laurel: I feel like I've grown so much from then, but there's some good jokes, but the POV on it is solid. Yeah. But it's not really mine anymore. Mhmm. It's been so long, but but I'm really proud of it.
Laurel: It was called, not the one.
Daniel: How has your POV changed since then?
Laurel: I would say that solo show was me, like, working through what it meant for me to be polyammonogamous and what it meant for me to be publicly coming out about it. Mhmm.
Laurel: So
Laurel: it was like a coming out type of energy because no one I really knew was talking about it. It was very different about a decade ago.
Laurel: Mhmm.
Mindy Raf: Like, there was, like, ethical slut, but people weren't making jokes about polyfills all the time. Nobody even knew... Said that word. It wasn't more Ted talky, but it definitely wasn't me, like, explaining a lot to the audience about even what non monogamy was. And it was also, like, a...
Laurel: The solo show was more narrative. So I was, like, coming out as Poly to myself, to the audience, and to my mother who had passed away. So it was, like, a very, like, specific theatrical experience that had stand up couched into the narrative. Yeah. Yeah.
Laurel: It's such a specific thing.
Laurel: Mhmm.
Laurel: And now I'm, like, just more like, hey. I'm Poly. Like, here's some jokes.
Daniel: We talk about this all the time in, like, the music that we look at. And it seemed like for a long time, like, every single song that was about a multiplicity of relationships spent its almost entire length trying to convince the listener that this was something good. And we also enjoy the fact that we've all seemed to have moved on from this as a culture now. Right. And like a lot of the media that we see coming out just now is no longer quite so explicatory or proselytizing.
Laurel: Mhmm. That's super true. We... It happens to us gradually. So...
Laurel: But when you look back, the representation doesn't have to be as narrow or about the thing. We can just, like, be people who love a certain way. But the most interesting thing isn't necessarily the design of the relationship or the non monogamy. It's just where people who happen to have interesting stories who happen to be non monogamous or polyamorous. And that's a huge difference.
Laurel: And it's just... I mean, it just was starting to happen with gay storytelling in the past twenty years too. So it just takes a while. Mhmm.
Laurel: Is it easier now to make poly jokes? Like, is there a more, like, baseline understanding that you can expect the audience to have?
Laurel: Where I live, yes. Yeah. Mhmm. Because I'm in Brooklyn. I'm in Bushwick.
Laurel: I'm assuming if I was in Portland, it would also be slightly easier depending on where I'm performing. I think in general, though, there's been reality shows. There's been, like, books. So I think it's much easier just to, like, have a joke about it, yeah, without getting into the whole, like, TED talk of it. Mhmm.
Laurel: Truly. I tend to like to throw it out and be like, my wife and then my partner. Oh, by the way, have two partners. And then just like move on. And then they can think about that later.
Laurel: I think everyone's much smarter and much more curious than we give them credit for.
Nichole: Well, that's nice to hear.
Laurel: Not everyone. I
Daniel: still overwhelmingly, like, I feel like polyamory is more a target for comedy rather than a subject for comedy. Like, if I Google polyamory comedy, it's mostly people saying that we are all ugly and predatory, this, that, and the other.
Laurel: I mean, on where the power lies in the narrative of who's talking about it. Right? I find that narrative coming from a lot of straight men.
Laurel: Yes.
Nichole: Mhmm.
Laurel: And that's coming from what insecurity, jealousy, patriarchy, like white supremacy, like all the things that make us narrow minded and judgmental. Even other comics are doing crowd work, if there's a polycule in the crowd
Laurel: Yeah.
Laurel: You automatically go to, like, that's so weird, or how do you guys all fucking? Or... Which I totally get. But I think it's... Yeah.
Laurel: It's an easy thing to make fun of because of the way that it's portrayed sometimes, which is which, yeah, like anything else, like the stereotypes we give for things we don't understand. Some of it's funny and ridiculous. We are a little ridiculous.
Laurel: It's true.
Laurel: Yes. Who's telling the joke? Like, I can make a stupid hack joke about our shared calendars, which if I do it in a specific way, isn't so hack. But also if someone who's not Poly is making a joke about something that they don't know about and the point of view is like judgment or like about how people look or like, you're... Why would this person be hot enough for two partners or whatever?
Laurel: Then it's like, it's just typical bad narrow minded stand up, basically. Doesn't matter what they're talking about.
Laurel: Right. Yeah. They're just... Yeah. What's the flavor of the week?
Laurel: That's, like, an easy target kind of thing. Everyone's looking at me. All I wanted to say was I've never been ridiculous a day in my life.
Nichole: Valid. It's so true.
Laurel: Yeah. I'm...
Nichole: You're the most serious person I know.
Laurel: Thank you. Speaking of
Daniel: Laurel's ridiculous personality.
Laurel: Yes. Yes.
Daniel: You guys wanna talk about some chimps?
Nichole: Okay.
Laurel: That just made my laughter sound extremely chimp like,
Laurel: and I'm never gonna be
Laurel: able to unhear it again. And now every time I laugh on the pod, everyone's gonna be like, there's the chimp laurel, and I'm so fucking pissed about this. Take your sticking paws off me, you damn dirty ape.
Daniel: I would love it if we had a trained chimp that was just a member of our, like, cohost.
Laurel: Aw. That would be the leader of the polycule.
Daniel: Yes. Because we would fear.
Laurel: Alright. That's when you're gonna get made fun of, y'all. I'm sorry.
Laurel: Put your shins into your body.
Laurel: What? Yes. That's where I can't support this polygamy.
Nichole: Me neither. We
Laurel: have an asexual chimp as a part of our polygamy. And you're like, he's ace. Don't judge us. I'd
Laurel: be like, oh.
Daniel: I I just imagined actually his name is ace.
Laurel: This is ace.
Laurel: Ace. He makes the most money.
Daniel: Sadly, this is true. So, we're gonna be talking about some primates today for our Animal
Laurel: magnetism.
Clip: Animal magnetism, they don't need to ask permission. Polypers for your mono prison. Pride of lions, gay pride living, with oboe chips, with oboe chipmin' just like us. Stop them. Listen.
Clip: We're trying to break your
Nichole: animal magnetism. For whatever reason, it is a repeatable segment where we come across articles about polyamory in the wild, like, in the animal kingdom.
Laurel: Yeah. I love it. It makes
Laurel: sense though where the mammals are not
Laurel: Yeah. Mammals are not
Nichole: monog. And birds.
Daniel: Yeah. Birds are free.
Laurel: They gotta make babies, and they're gotta find someone to make a baby with. And so they're like, who's free?
Laurel: Who's free? Who's got some nice feathers? Who's got some beautiful plumage?
Daniel: Who wants to sit on my egg?
Nichole: Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Daniel: Alright. So got this article from The Conversation, is Sounds legit. Don't know. They have decent like site design.
Laurel: Right. That's how I judge it.
Daniel: And this is Bonobos and Chimps. What our closest relatives tell us about humans. Humans are an interesting mixture of altruism and competition. To try and explain these conflicting tendencies, researchers have turned to the chimpanzees and the bonobos for insight.
Nichole: Okay.
Daniel: So they go and ask the bonobos.
Laurel: Why are we like this?
Nichole: Tell us how to be better. I don't think you guys have a Trump.
Laurel: Ask the bonobo in your polycule.
Daniel: I hope you bonobos don't have a Trump because I just pictured bonobo with Trump hair.
Laurel: I know
Daniel: you do. I need to wash this out of my brain. Among the great apes, the chimpanzees and the bonobos are the most genetically related to us as we share about 98.7 of our DNA with them, as well as anatomical features, complex social hierarchies and problem solving skills.
Laurel: I thought I was gonna say problematic behavior.
Daniel: If you start with complex social hierarchies, you're gonna follow-up with problematic behavior. That's true. Bonobos may be one of our closest cousins, but chimpanzees dominated research after Jane Goodall discovered in the 1960s that chimpanzees make use of tools. This finding paved the way for research on chimpanzees as a lens to understand which human aspects are natural rather than socially conditioned.
Nichole: What is the difference between natural and socially constructed?
Laurel: One would be like our genetic evolutionary, right? Just another one would be ones that we learn from behaviors. And then our genes can change due to behavioral changes, but it takes millions of years for those genes to adapt to those changes from the social learning.
Nichole: I think that's what
Laurel: it means. Somebody here is a scientist. I
Laurel: mean, that's like just a guess, but I think our genes can change.
Nichole: I think they can. Yeah. Yeah. They've done studies.
Laurel: That's the quote. Please don't use that quote for me from the podcast. It's just like a twist. It's just like one quote for me. And it's like Mindy Rap.
Laurel: I mean, it's like, I think our genes can change. Can you hear me?
Nichole: So
Daniel: you heard it here you heard it here first, folks. Mindy Raph, eugenicist. With enough patience.
Laurel: Mindy Raff loves Sydney Sweeney. What?
Laurel: Mindy Raff has Jewish genes.
Laurel: Paul.
Daniel: An array of human characteristics including empathy, playfulness, and respect for elders have since been attributed to our shared ancestry with chimpanzees. However, one disturbing characteristic stands out. Chimpanzees go ape and attack each other in coordinated assaults. Dutch primate expert Franz de Waals 1982 book Chimpanzee Politics included a colorful description of how Lewitt and Niki, two young male chimpanzees, allied to violently usurp Yerwen, the alpha male. They bit and ripped out Yerwen's testicles, and the loss of blood killed him.
Laurel: Jesus. Graphic.
Nichole: We don't need to know that. Oh, good on that.
Laurel: I'm sure he was an asshole. I know. What he did. Yeah. We don't know what he did.
Daniel: This is why neither chimpanzees nor bonobos have a Trump. Yeah, they'd ripped his testicles out
Nichole: and led to death.
Laurel: Okay. Jealous.
Daniel: One argument scientists have made is that these warlike tendencies are hardwired in us the same way they are hardwired in chimpanzees, which challenges the view that wars are a man made phenomenon.
Laurel: But those aren't wars. They're not like they're trying to, like, cause terrible destruction to get money and power. They're like... I feel like it feels more primal than than These are like construction war. But...
Laurel: Yes. Send a drone to bomb his testicles. They used their own teeth.
Daniel: And now I'm reading, like, use their own teeth as something that's, like, local and, like, community sourced. Like it's
Laurel: like This was a mutual aid project.
Daniel: So researchers are recognizing bonobos as more similar than chimpanzees to humans, which considering their reputation as amicable apes is good news for us.
Nichole: Because we'll have friends. Oh, because
Laurel: we can stop doing testicle drone warfare.
Laurel: Yeah. We all had two apes within us. And you know when you're talking to a chimp versus a versus a bonobo. But we all can be both at either time depending on... The mirror has two faces.
Laurel: Let's go back to Barbara.
Laurel: Bring it
Clip: on back to Barbara.
Daniel: Unlike the male dominated groups of chimpanzees, bonobos live in peaceful communities where the chief is female. Indeed, human societies tend to be matriarchal when there is little direct competition for resources. In bonobo communities, sexual relations play an important role in maintaining relationships and resolving conflicts. For instance, the prospect of food can stir chimpanzees into a hostile frenzy. But bonobos take a more harmonious approach and will gather for what often turns into a polyamorous picnic.
Laurel: What? Oh.
Daniel: There is plenty of sexual play.
Laurel: That's an evite I'll say yes to. Yeah.
Daniel: Except you get there and it's all bonobos. They wanna pick the knits out of your hair.
Laurel: Mhmm. Sounds cute.
Laurel: You know what? Let's do it.
Laurel: Yeah.
Laurel: I would love to be groomed. Are you kidding? Right. I I have each partner on one side. I have real thick hair.
Laurel: Like, just get into it. Especially if we're in Fire Island, like, find the ticks. Like,
Laurel: let's There
Daniel: is plenty of sexual play and grooming reminiscent of our own free love movements in hippie culture.
Laurel: Okay. This was written by a
Laurel: sound too scientific. Yeah.
Daniel: The reference is like, this is a boomer who wrote this. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. Didn't go to Burning Man.
Daniel: Bonobos are also rather eager to share. Experiments
Laurel: I'm out.
Laurel: Just kidding.
Daniel: When bonobos are put in adjacent rooms and one is given food, bonobos would rather share the food than eat alone. This
Nichole: is breaking my heart.
Daniel: That we have not, like, as a culture, like, turned to our bonobo heritage.
Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. But we have. So I think there's a lot of bonobos among us. We're just like Yeah.
Laurel: Yeah. We're just trying to survive in a chimp world, man. That's the episode episode title. Truer words never said. Wow.
Laurel: Woah. Everybody wants a bigger piece of the pie.
Daniel: Why? Read as all the mogies. Apes will whip out
Laurel: your eyes. Side. Still won't gain respect about
Daniel: how everyone dies, where every drop rejoins the ocean, where the souls are supplied. The chimps are on Wall straighten suits and their ties, trading on the shit exchange where the excrement flies, singing that the market soaring poops an excellent buy. Chanting, build the wall and haul sweat by Mexican guys. All these primates heading home to claim their turf and the burbs, let their wives out of their crates to get the hurt they deserve. They can't wait to get served, their rivals hard as a meal, then fall asleep reading.
Daniel: What? The art of the deal. Meanwhile, somewhere in the city, there's a little homestead where bonobos pull bananas and give everyone head. So everyone comes, yum, goes as they please, exceeding
Laurel: the sums of their toes and
Daniel: their knees. Surpass the love and duck the shit monkey companies heard. Just What's a bonobo know? There's more than one way to be human. There's more room in bed, and there's no sense in doom and a stranger by consuming all the food and all the loving when you could be grooming one another instead of shoving.
Daniel: It's like a witch's coven. Yeah. More buns stay in the oven. Planty
Nichole: I think I just get really emotional at at animal kindness.
Laurel: Sharing their their sharing their friends.
Nichole: It's like when our dogs cuddle, like, really affects me.
Daniel: It's also very poly in a social way. Like, it's not just, like, sexual polyamory. It's like they exist in these, like, community sustained Yeah. Formations.
Nichole: Where we're also, like, sharing our resources and
Daniel: Yes.
Laurel: Yeah. I did bristle when they said that chimps got, like, hostile or, like, excited with food. And I was like, oh, I think I'm a chimp.
Laurel: I don't like to share my food.
Laurel: And all other ways, I'm bonobo. But then I was like, when they were talking about, like, a frenzy with food, I was like, yeah. And my partners will say, like, we're not... Get fork fork off of my plate. Absolutely not.
Daniel: You can't resolve these conflicts with sex the way that bonobos do.
Laurel: I'm... Oh, act... Yeah. Yeah. Because you don't stick your fork in my tiramisu, and that's not a metaphor.
Laurel: That's my literal tiramisu.
Daniel: You can eat my cake, but don't eat my cake.
Laurel: Yes. And sometimes you can't eat my cake double, and I just want a massage. Mhmm.
Daniel: They've also been observed sharing food with those outside their group, perhaps to make new friends.
Laurel: Aw.
Daniel: And they demonstrate a willingness to help others obtain food even if they won't get to share it. Oh.
Nichole: I'm actually crying. Oh. Because I just like... It's just...
Laurel: Let's take a moment.
Nichole: Let's honor these feelings.
Laurel: Like Is it because they're sharing from their nature?
Laurel: Yeah. Like, yeah. They they were
Laurel: like No. Many podcasts I'm on, one person always ends up crying. I'm trying to stop it, but but let's make space for
Laurel: this. This is, like, a
Nichole: real This is normal. Okay.
Daniel: And while the idea of societies built on free love may sound like a utopian fairy tale
Laurel: To this boomer. Yeah. Yeah.
Daniel: We do seem to be opening up to alternative mating practices such as consensual non monogamy in response to a world that is getting increasingly jaded with traditional notions of gender and relationship structures. The flexibility of human behavior is after all the cornerstone of our remarkable adaptability. So it can't hurt to be open to new possibilities. This writer is, like, looking at me from
Laurel: Like across the Yeah.
Daniel: We think you're you.
Laurel: What's up? You heard about the bonobo?
Laurel: This... Yeah. This feels like a pitch to someone that you're, like, trying to get in your polycule who's, like, slightly conservative and, like, slight... A little older maybe. And Yeah.
Laurel: It's, like, feels like a long way to get there where I feel like you could just say, like, by the way, everybody's different, and we should all love how we wanna And it's, like, cool. And you're like, but the bonobos. But...
Laurel: I forget if it was one animal magnetism that we did and listened to, but it's about, like, these birds that were developing, like, basically, like, lesbian relationships.
Daniel: Yeah.
Laurel: And the person who did the podcast was a lesbian. She's having this emotional arc where she's feeling really, like, connected to the story. And then it turns out that it was just an adaptive practice by these specific birds, but it didn't happen outside of, like, them being, like, under duress. And so then felt a sense of like a loss or invalidation because like it didn't exist in nature. But I've also seen this from people with like conservative leanings who finally sort of came around to the gay agenda after accepting that it was natural.
Laurel: Like, they couldn't accept the idea of, like, homosexuality unless it was, like, part of God's creation kind of thing. And I see that, like, mirrored in some of what we talk about in terms of, like, non monogamy, like like, that we look for validation in nature.
Laurel: Yeah. But it's also like the idea of, like, again, like, the energy of why you're seeking that. Like, some people would be seeking that for witnessing to feel seen to be like, yes. I'm an animal myself versus other people are looking at it to accept or not accept groups of people into, like, society and give them rights and stuff. So it's like the way you interpret these stories.
Laurel: There's an agenda to all of it. Maybe the birds were doing it because they were under duress, but, like, people are monogamous under duress as well Yeah. And stay in relationships because their rent's too high. I mean, everyone's under duress. So it's like, who cares?
Laurel: We're all just doing, like, everything we can to, like, find a little joy.
Daniel: And I don't necessarily believe that that instance with the birds was, you know, completely isolated. I think that probably most of the lesbian birds just don't wanna perform for the human gaze.
Laurel: I think you're right. I think that they... Yeah. I also coming, and they're like, fuck these guys. Everybody switch.
Nichole: Yeah. I really thought that you were describing the plot of Jurassic Park.
Laurel: Kind of. I think that's sort of where the plot of Jurassic Park comes from a little bit.
Nichole: It does.
Clip: Like
Daniel: You're implying that a group composed entirely of female animals will breed?
Laurel: No. I'm I'm simply saying that life finds a
Laurel: way. Speaking
Daniel: of people trying to find a way?
Laurel: People trying to find a three
Nichole: way? Oh.
Laurel: Good job.
Daniel: What's up next?
Laurel: Unicorn hunter hunters. Unicorn hunter hunters. Do you wanna be their prince? Unicorn hunter hunters I
Laurel: haven't seen this.
Laurel: Is the segment where we find unicorn hunter profiles on dating apps, And then we rate them on three categories.
Daniel: Self aggrandizement.
Nichole: Arbitrary rules.
Laurel: And would we unicorn for them? And I'm so excited to have you here for this, Mindy.
Laurel: So excited. Okay.
Nichole: We are a communicative, safely attached queer couple exploring
Laurel: our Nope. I'm out. I'm just gonna give them. Just kidding.
Laurel: I'm sorry. I can't hate it.
Laurel: Hate it all. I'm dry as a piece of toast.
Laurel: Move on. Well
Daniel: Don't worry. They completely undermined their intro very soon.
Laurel: Amazing. Yeah. Continue.
Nichole: We are a communicative, safely attached queer couple exploring our fluid sides together. Her, artist, physical, creative, mischievous. Bi curious and new to exploring that.
Laurel: K.
Nichole: Him, creative, cerebral, warm, adventurous, bisexual and equally interested in exploring together. Currently open to FFM plus MFM, parens, her at the center. FMF. Okay. And m m f, him at the center.
Laurel: You have to satellite around us, basically. Yes. Scenarios. Yes. Use better better copyright.
Laurel: They need a copyright. Okay.
Nichole: Open to parallel play with another securely attached couple.
Laurel: That was like a therapy speak way of saying no drama. Yeah.
Daniel: Yeah.
Nichole: Yeah. Our boundaries. No penetration outside our relationship. No kissing reserved just for us.
Laurel: Okay. No penetrative sex. No kissing.
Laurel: So you can watch us kiss, but you can't kiss us and we can't kiss you.
Nichole: Oh, I thought that they could only kiss
Laurel: one of the two or two They of the
Nichole: are the only ones who can kiss?
Laurel: Yes.
Laurel: Sounds good. They're saying we only penetrate and we only kiss. Like, they're basically putting themselves in a bubble, and you're there as, like, a cameo appearance with very specific rules, I'm assuming, to voye or assist them with their sex. That's what I'm assuming. But going.
Laurel: Okay. Taking
Nichole: it slow, parallel play, and light touch. So that's a boundary of theirs.
Daniel: Yes.
Nichole: Do they know what boundary means?
Laurel: No. Okay. No. These are rules. These are rules.
Laurel: These are rules.
Nichole: Oh, boy.
Laurel: Let's say
Laurel: it again. These are rules.
Nichole: Alright. Looking for people slash couples interested in both of us. K. Chemistry, confidence, and sensuality, honesty, transparency, and heart centeredness. People who understand boundaries without making them weird and are excited to explore, experience pleasure, and have fun.
Laurel: Wow. I like how they're, like, understand boundaries, but we're using it as a general term, but really their rules. So they're basically like, don't break our rules and don't be dramatic when we want you to follow our rules.
Laurel: Yes. Yeah. Wow.
Nichole: Okay. We always play together. Never separately. No individual dating, romance, or sexual relationships. Okay.
Nichole: Nonnegotiable.
Laurel: I'm so stressed right now. I know. I'm having dinner with them. First of all, I couldn't. And second of all, I'm like I'm like, my hand is holding the burrito, and I'm shaking.
Nichole: Beans are flying everywhere. They're just... Alright. Nonnegotiable. Mutual privacy and discretion.
Laurel: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Nichole: 100% substance free.
Daniel: Uh-huh.
Nichole: Okay. Clear communication about boundaries and dynamics. Alright. Well, safe sex only. Recent test results shared.
Laurel: But they're not doing any penetration. No penetration. No kissing.
Daniel: But they still need all your results.
Nichole: No side quests. No private sexual chats, explicit pics, separate sexual meetups, or one on one play.
Laurel: Okay. So someone in this relationship has gotten their boundaries crossed, and one of their partners has fallen in love or done something with someone else. And this is what we call a reactive post. Yeah. Wow.
Laurel: Sorry. That's just my quick interp. It's basically like you don't have agency when you're with us. We are the brains. And it sounds like maybe just one guy is the brains, but that's my guess that there's a cis male involved.
Laurel: But, like Yeah. One person is in charge, and you're coming in as, like, a subject, as a sub, as, like, an object in this scenario. And you don't do things, like, outside of what we're setting up is my guess. Which some people like that. They want that.
Laurel: But that's... Okay. Continue. I'm really... And get their number so I can text.
Daniel: Just one of them.
Nichole: Just immediately blocked. He starts
Laurel: My curious gal.
Nichole: Just kidding. Just kidding. He starts chats. She's present.
Laurel: Oh, go fuck yourself with a dull knife in your testicles. I'm sorry.
Daniel: I think it's gonna take a bomb.
Laurel: Little chimp tear into that.
Laurel: I wish my nails were sharper so I could just rip it
Laurel: off. What? Wow.
Laurel: He texts first, and she's She's there.
Laurel: She's around.
Laurel: She's alive.
Nichole: I mean it. Be respectful yet bold. Share your experience with couples and your interests. They don't fucking care about your interests.
Daniel: Yeah. They wanna curriculum.
Laurel: Like one of those job posts that's like, you're working seven jobs. It's 30,000 a year. There's no insurance. Then you're like, what is in this for me? Yes.
Laurel: Confused about what I'm supposed to do. Okay. Well
Laurel: You wanna see some pictures? Yeah.
Laurel: I've seen enough.
Laurel: They're all unsolicited nudes.
Laurel: It's just like dick dick dick dick. That that dick. Oh, that's my ex. I'm just kidding. Wait.
Laurel: Let me... Wait. Can I just? Let me see. I'm kidding.
Laurel: Oh, okay.
Laurel: I wanna see.
Laurel: Tracks to me.
Daniel: Ponytail.
Laurel: I mean, I'm assuming this is a cis man. I don't wanna make any assumptions, but presents as a typical white cis male. Yeah. Or seems like a typical privileged cis male in this photo.
Daniel: In pick number two, he looks like a cult leader.
Laurel: I've I've met this guy at a kink club. And he's never participated in any kind of impact play, but he already has his fingerless leather gloves on. And
Laurel: he's he's ready to show you
Laurel: how it's done.
Laurel: It's not for me. The copy is not for me. None of it's for me. No. Cis males are not for me.
Laurel: But if someone is like, this is what I want in life is to serve this structure and that makes me happy, get your racks off and watch them kiss and fucking send them all your STD private infos for no reason. Like, do what you need to do, girl or whatever. But
Daniel: One more of him, motorcycle and surfboard at the same time.
Laurel: Oh, wow. Very cool.
Nichole: Motosurf.
Laurel: I also always find it weird when... Like, it is clearly his profile and his perspective. But he's like trying to like mask it and veil it as if it is like a couple's thing.
Nichole: Mhmm.
Laurel: It's not the worst thing I've ever heard in terms of like, I don't... I'm not scrolling too much these days because I'm super saturated in a good way. But it just feels like... Yeah. There's just like a micro hint of like
Nichole: ick Mhmm.
Laurel: Into the writing. It feel... I feel like she's tied up in a room somewhere.
Laurel: Yes. Yes. Like,
Laurel: that's what... That's the energy of the writing. And they might be really happy and chill people and, like, who knows? And they're just, like, really bad copywriters. We don't know.
Daniel: And there's one picture of her. No face showed.
Laurel: Okay. Okay.
Daniel: She's doing... What yoga pose is that? Pigeon?
Laurel: No. That's the last thing that I can't do. The crow. Yeah. Why is he allowed to surf and bike and go to weddings and and live a full life?
Laurel: And she's just tortured in crow. I'm just absolutely not. Like, this is... She should have... This is freedom.
Laurel: Right? Freedom.
Laurel: I like that he's bi.
Nichole: I think he's bi. I mean, he says he's bi. Okay. I can just choose to believe him.
Laurel: They're... Nicole, believe men. Okay.
Daniel: Just a little
Nichole: I fun and all feel like such a fucking idiot. I can't understand what they're actually looking for. If they're... If it's not penetration, and it's not kissing.
Laurel: Like, oral is on the table, but it's
Daniel: Sounds like it.
Laurel: It sounds like
Daniel: As long as you don't make eye contact.
Laurel: Don't make eye contact. Don't look directly into her
Laurel: still have sex with toys. Right?
Laurel: You know, sex with toys.
Laurel: A girl could use a strap on. They could use hands. They could
Nichole: Okay. I assume that fingers and toys is penetration. And blowjobs is penetrate... Like, that that is penetrative. Oh, yeah.
Nichole: Know. Is penetrative.
Laurel: So But
Laurel: I was thinking of how straight people would... But they're not straight, so maybe not.
Daniel: They're not as queer as they think
Laurel: they are. Oh. They're not
Laurel: thinking as deeply as we are
Laurel: about sex.
Nichole: Yeah. Okay. Alright.
Laurel: It sounds like maybe they would work up to that point. But it sounds like initially... Because they just say, like, some parallel play and light touching.
Daniel: Too hard. Lighter. Lighter. Lighter.
Nichole: Off the bed. Go stand in the corner.
Daniel: Other room.
Laurel: Taffeta, darling. Taffeta, sweetheart. No. The dress is Taffeta wrinkles so easily. Oh.
Laurel: It sounds like either some male fantasy of, like, the first ten minutes of a lesbian porn from the nineties.
Laurel: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Laurel: Or some stereotypical female fantasy of a threesome before it fades to black. Like Yeah. Like we want to spice up our lives or or maybe curiously experiment, but we're not sure. Like we actually want to do it. So we're going to put all these rules in place and then write something that seems shady, but maybe, maybe she's is by curious and she's like, I want to try hooking up with women, but I don't wanna do it alone because I'm scared, and I don't think I'm gay.
Laurel: And he's like, well, I'd love to see you make out with somebody, but no kissing. But, like, know
Laurel: what I mean?
Laurel: Like, I don't know. Like
Nichole: You guys can nuzzle your necks to... With each other.
Laurel: The no kissing is interesting
Nichole: to me. That's really interesting to me.
Daniel: Yeah. Nuzzling nuzzling next thing, that's only for lesbian birds. Pretty sure. Would you like to take a go at rating these people?
Laurel: Yeah. Okay. Arbitrary rules.
Daniel: I would be afraid to, again, like make eye contact, touch anybody. I cannot imagine how to function in the room that they were describing.
Nichole: But that's the point, I think. Yeah.
Laurel: I don't think anyone can succeed in this. Like, coming into this. Like, I was like, okay. Let's say I was interested in this type of thing. You're setting me up to fail at every turn because Yes.
Laurel: It's not it's not for humaning. But it sounds like they want a a sex worker, and then you could get a sex worker to play out this role. And then you can transactionally and consensually pay someone to, like, watch you. You can only touch tits. You can only come at this certain time.
Laurel: Yeah. Don't text because you're hired to do a job Yeah. To create an experience. But a human being has different needs and facets and communications, and we're gonna mess up. And so this doesn't seem like the role of a human being in a relationship.
Laurel: This sounds like the role of a transactional person.
Daniel: Yes. You know that these heart centered people, though, are not pro sex worker.
Laurel: Yeah, me probably not.
Daniel: So scale of one to 10 on arbitrary rules.
Laurel: I haven't read a lot of these. I would say I'm out of the loop, but I would say this is like a 9.6.
Laurel: Yes. Yes. Yep. I was just gonna say nine because I always leave room for something to be a little more batshit out there.
Laurel: That's the point four.
Laurel: Yeah. That's the point four.
Nichole: Nine as well.
Laurel: Are you gonna do it? Oh, look at them. 10. Yeah. Alright.
Laurel: Okay. I like it. Yeah.
Daniel: We've been doing this for two years. If I'm not gonna give an arbitrary rule 10 to these people, I don't know.
Laurel: Yeah. That's fair. I think I have a
Laurel: lot of compassion when I hear stuff like this because I did start out with, like, a lot of rules on not understanding. But something about the way that this is set up makes me feel like, no. They feel
Laurel: not from that place. Yes. We we appreciate your compassion. And also, shut the fuck up.
Laurel: These goddamn chimps.
Nichole: Alright. Self aggrandizement. They're gonna rate lower for me because you know they're not on a boat.
Daniel: This is true.
Nichole: There is a surfboard and there's a motorcycle but no boat. They also don't talk about their life together.
Daniel: Because they are fucking this close to breaking up.
Nichole: Yeah, they're so close.
Laurel: But they're safe.
Daniel: Safely attached.
Laurel: Safely attached. Is weird.
Daniel: That's weird.
Laurel: What does that mean?
Daniel: I don't know.
Laurel: With a carabiner?
Daniel: She's only bi curious. There's no carabiner.
Laurel: Give them more clear points.
Laurel: But they... I think this is pretty self aggrandizing. I would give them an eight. It's not all in the copy, but in my future thinking, it goes to a mate. But the copy would...
Laurel: I would put a 6.5.
Laurel: Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm gonna go a little lower, I think, just because 've seen some shit. I'm gonna say six.
Laurel: I'm gonna say six.
Nichole: I was gonna say a seven.
Laurel: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm gonna go five. Okay.
Laurel: I
Daniel: mean, again, it's grading on the curve. Like, I have seen so much.
Laurel: Like
Nichole: Yes.
Daniel: I've... It's... Feel like I'm talking about, like, I've been to war. I've seen so much.
Laurel: I've had so many wargasms.
Nichole: Would you, unicorn?
Laurel: Nope. Nope. Nope. I I wanna kiss. I'm just gonna say if I'm gonna go hook up with somebody, I wanna at least be able to kiss them.
Nichole: At least.
Laurel: At least.
Daniel: Wow. You say this is one of the more reticent kissers in my partnership constellation.
Nichole: I don't think that's true.
Daniel: The world knows it's true.
Laurel: Listen, we got to stop bringing this up. We got to stop springing this on me. This is
Daniel: Is this a boundary?
Laurel: This is this is a boundary. If you're gonna spring this on me, I'm just gonna take my headphones off and leave the room.
Laurel: Now that children is a boundary. Yeah.
Nichole: This has been PolyAmateur Hour, a production of RISA Records. If you have a question for Ask the Amateurs, a recommendation for Insta's Poly, or a sweet little something for any segment, please email us at polyamateurhour@gmail.com or message us at polyamateur hour dot com. If you enjoyed the show, and you know you did, you perv, please subscribe to us on your podcatcher of choice. Write us a five star review, and most importantly, tell at least one person in your life to check us out. But we hope you tell three or four.
Nichole: If you want to help pay for our bad habits, like this podcast, send us a tip on Ko Fi at k o dash f I dot com slash polyamateur hour. You can even make it recurring if you want to do it again and again. Remember, the advice given by the amateurs should not be followed unless you are prepared to be ecstatically happy, successful, and strange. Until next time.