Laurel: Movie crush.

Daniel: Movie crush. I'm not really sure. I know TV crush was Samantha from Bewitched. Oh, hell yeah. Um. Who didn't, who didn't want to bone Samantha from Bewitched? I mean, she had magical powers centered in a, in a cute facial tick. And a cute, her cute little button nose. I wanted to be Samantha. Yeah, that too.

Song: Talkin bout love and sex and power, All our polyamateur hour.

Laurel: My first television crush was Julie Newmar in Batman. Oh, hell yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah. Movie crush. It's hard to remember the order I saw things in, but Benny the Jet Rodriguez from The Sandlot. Yep.

Daniel: Okay. I still haven't seen The Sandlot.

Daniel: This is a point of contention in our household.

Laurel: I've accepted that you haven't seen The Sandlot. What is, is it also is it Wendy Peppercorn. Peppercorn. Peppercorn.

Nichole: Yeah. Wendy Peppercorn. Yeah. That doesn't mean anything to you. Yeah.

Daniel: I mean, I like, you know people who are redolent of spices. I don't know.

Laurel: Wow.

Daniel: He was going to do the intro today.

Nichole: Welcome to Polyamateur Hour.

Laurel: Thank

Daniel: you.

Laurel: I'm Nicole. I'm Laurel.

Daniel: And I'm Daniel. Huck. We're

Laurel: going to just do an entire episode where we're all like Disney versions of ourselves.

Daniel: So it'd just be like any other episode.

Laurel: I don't think so.

Laurel: I curse too much to be a. Disney character. Disney after dark. Ooh! That was like um, what did they call it when Nickelodeon got spooky? Oh, Snick.

Nichole: Right? Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah. Snick. It was Saturday night Nickelodeon. Nickelodeon. Yeah. And I think there was, I mean, there was Are You Afraid of the Dark, obviously. I think over the course of this podcast and our opening banter.

Nichole: people will realize very quickly that Laurel and I are of the same generation and Daniel is not.

Daniel: Why are these two hot millennial chicks, why are they dating this boomer? I'm not a boomer.

Nichole: No, you're firmly Gen X er.

Daniel: Yeah, I wish I was like a cool Gen X, I wish I was like punk rock Gen X.

Laurel: So what, how, yeah, what are you?

Daniel: I don't know, like I'm, I'm like 90s hip hop, Gen X. Like as far as the formative music that you listen to when you're like 14, 15, 16 that you like listen to for the rest of your life. Aren't you

Nichole: part of the Oregon Trail generation? Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah, because we played that video game when I was when I was a kid and we were all, it's probably why I'm a hypochondriac is because of the dysentery thing.

Daniel: That's because I'm like, you're just gonna not really make it to any goal. No,

Laurel: no, no. Nicole meant, didn't you come out here on the Oregon trail?

Laurel: Cause we played Oregon trail. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. You probably had it. It was probably like a POV shooter video game by the time. You got to it.

Laurel: It was strictly hunting bison. It was kind of boring because they're pretty easy to shoot.

Nichole: All right.

Laurel: What is our first segment? Oh, it's Unicorn Hunter Hunters.

Do you wanna be there?

Daniel: Oh, that

Laurel: was why I was sounding the alarm earlier. Is

Daniel: that going to be our our drop for Unicorn Hunter Hunters? It's

Laurel: when we, yeah, it's, there's an emergency.

Laurel: Intervention is required. So, we're not unicorn hunters, but we have

Laurel: Not all the time.

Nichole: I

Daniel: mean, what, what defines a unicorn hunter?

Nichole: That's a good start. Can you define a unicorn hunter? What is the. The conceit.

Daniel: Okay, a unicorn hunter is a couple who are looking for a bisexual woman. A hetero couple. A hetero couple looking for a bisexual woman.

Daniel: Usually there's a lot of rules that surround it.

Laurel: I think they just create rules around who and what this woman is allowed to be. And usually it is so confining that she's not really supposed to be a person. She's just supposed to be like an accessory, a sex cessory. Exactly.

Nichole: Obviously, we are all active on the dating apps and very often somewhat often, dependent on what city we're in, we will be liked by one of these couples. And so we wanted to share one of these, one or two of these profiles that we have come across.

Daniel: Now, your experience is often being The hunted unicorn, right?

Daniel: They're like, correct. Perhaps, perhaps this person has little enough personality for me to graft my expectations onto them. I think for me, they get a hold of me to get to my partners.

Daniel: So, once they find out that I'm not traveling with you in whatever city I'm in, they'll be like nope, peace out.

Nichole: So in unicorn hunter hunters, we'll be assessing the unicorn hunters in three categories. The first is constrictive rules. Mm-Hmm. . The second is self-aggrandizement,

Daniel: uhhuh, .

Nichole: And the third is, would we unicorn?

Daniel: Yeah. Because despite the fact that we're all like talking down, you know about unicorn hunters, sometimes you just, you know, you wanna fly in, fly out.

Laurel: I love nasty, depraved, ethicless couples.

Nichole: Ethicless. All right. Do you guys want to hear a profile? Oh yeah.

Daniel: Yeah, we do.

Nichole: Okay. So we were recently traveling in Vegas. And so I changed my profile location to Vegas and that was a mistake. Because I can't, not like, It's just because I am, like, female presenting and I have boobs.

Nichole: So here is one of the profiles that liked me. We are probably one of the coolest couples you will ever meet. Constantly moving, based in Las Vegas, Los Angeles, NYC, and London. We have led a non conventional life for many years and own a few businesses. We host parties in different cities we visit as well as our home in Vegas.

Nichole: Looking for fun, single women and couples to hang with that are cool and open minded and willing to travel. Cool couples or single females. ONLY BISEXUAL WOMEN. That is in all caps. Oh, gee.

Daniel: They got burned before.

Nichole: Super important as A, one half of the couple, is bi and wants to make sure the other woman is as well.

Nichole: BISEXUAL WOMEN. Been in this a while and would, and just would like people that are honest, no time wasters, and just chill. No drama. For couples. If your dude is not cut, we won't share.

Daniel: Hmm. Oh

Nichole: my god.

Daniel: And, and I assume this means circumcised rather than like cut, like, built, built.

Nichole: Well, like a chicken cutlet.

Nichole: I took a look at the other half of the couple's profile. Yeah. And

Daniel: he's like extra cut. Like the whole head of his dick is cut off.

Nichole: I

Daniel: just do not want to take any chances on being confused for a foreskin.

Nichole: So her, her profile kind of like solves the mystery. Kind of local Vegas, full swap couple, looking for like minded couples or single females to meet and have some casual fun together.

Nichole: We do everything together, so please do not ask me to join without him. Will request to verify immediately and prior to engaging in ongoing messaging or photo exchange. For me, uncircumcised is not an option, and I'm a bit of a size queen. Couples. Female partner must be bisexual, not bi curious. This is a deal breaker.

Nichole: Smiley

Daniel: emoji. Wow. I'm surprised there's just not like a a sketch of the specific penis that they want, you know, I feel like there's a, they want.

Laurel: With

Daniel: banana for scale.

Nichole: I think the penis is very secondary to the bisexual woman that they are

Laurel: hunting for. You know, I just think it's so funny. Like. how much trauma you see in people's profiles.

Laurel: Like, wow, what bi curious woman burned you? What bi curious woman were you so entitled to that you have to put this bullshit in all caps, all caps, into profiles? But also, I love the, like, I love the like, been doing this for a while and just don't want any drama. You are the drama. You are the drama.

Nichole: If anybody has chill, no drama, whatever, in their profile, they are the drama.

Laurel: Yeah, you're Immediate flag. You're definitely Cause it's just like, oh, we don't want you to upset our very precarious ecosystem. Correct. That is incredibly fragile.

Daniel: I mean it's almost like Good Vibes Only.

Laurel: Oh yeah. It's just, it's just

Daniel: one notch under that. Good Vibes Only is when, is, is a a declaration that they are completely insane.

Laurel: And, well, not just like completely insane, but just like, I have no time for your humanity. Yeah. You are an object. Yeah. Because you can't, people come with shit. Yeah. People come with drama. Like. People come without chill.

Daniel: Foreskins.

Laurel: People come with foreskins. God, man. There's nothing, like, for the amount of anti semitism in the world, people really fucking love circumcision.

Laurel: Somebody should tell them.

Yeah.

Laurel: You really

Nichole: should.

Laurel: Somebody should

Nichole: tell

Laurel: them.

Nichole: Um, should we go into our first category? But

Laurel: also

Nichole: the

Laurel: body shaming. Uh, Oh, with like demanding that someone be circumcised and that their dick be a specific size, like, I don't know. No, that's, You know, what's interesting is actually usually like, like usually unicorn hunting.

Laurel: Like the stereotype of it is that it is in service of protecting the man because there's not another dick involved typically. But everything about this. profile reads to me in protection of the woman. Like she, they're only going to do full

swaps

Laurel: and they only want bisexual women because she doesn't want to be put in a situation where she's left out or jelly.

Daniel: Yeah. All right. So

Nichole: so restrict, we covered their restrictive rules.

Laurel: Yes. Right. Mostly around penises and bisexual women. Oh, and zero dr you gotta be chill.

Laurel: Yes. You gotta be an amorphous, ambiguous chill.

Daniel: So we'll be judging them on a scale of one to 10 for each, so uh, Laurel, one to 10 restrictive rules.

Laurel: I'm going to say like, hmm. 7. 5.

Nichole: I was going to say seven. Yeah. I'll say 7. 5. The 0. 5 is the all caps. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah.

Nichole: That tips it.

Daniel: I'm going to go eight for the circumcision.

Laurel: Yeah, fair.

Daniel: Like it's, you know, I, it's, it's a real special kind of request. Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: All right. Okay. Self aggrandizement bombacity. So these folks, like we discussed, profile constantly moving based in Las Vegas, Los Angeles, NYC, and London. We have led a non conventional life for many years and own a few businesses.

Nichole: We host parties in different cities, as well as our home in Vegas.

Daniel: You know, it's pretty self aggrandizing, but I'm going to say that I've seen way, way more dramatic self aggrandizing profiles that go, that go on to a kind of a more poetic extent about just how awesome and interesting they are. This so I'm going to give it, I'm going to give that a six on the self aggrandizing.

Nichole: I think it's just, it's, It is putting forth an image that like, it is super cool, like how cool they are, that they keep moving. And then

Laurel: it's just like, like I read this and I was like, oh, well, like you're unstable,

Nichole: own a few businesses. So none of them are successful.

Laurel: Yeah. It's just like,

Daniel: and they're all dealing drugs.

Laurel: It's a business. Yeah. It's just like. Yeah, and maybe it's because I know, like, You know, like, one of my partners is like a real jet setter. Like, international baby of mystery. And, like, it's rad. And they're up to a lot of cool shit. But, like, I also see a lot of the drawbacks of that. And, like, how You know what's cool to me?

Laurel: Community.

Laurel: Like, I like people, like, cool people establish community and have like a strong network of, like, Friends and lovers and chosen family or whatever. Like those are cool people. Yeah. You know, what's cool to me is having a regular grocery store that I go to. Where Daniel knows everybody. Oh yeah. Or everybody knows Daniel's name.

Daniel: I like how often they use the word cool. I feel like if you're, it's like, it's like when you're trying to advertise something saying it's like fashionable, like you, it just belies the fact that you have no actual idea of what is cool or fashionable, the more that you say it.

Laurel: Yeah. But to be fair, these people aren't trying to attract me.

Laurel: Like they're trying to attract people who buy into that, that is what cool is. Those people are probably a lot younger than me.

I'm,

Laurel: I'm probably too old to qualify for these people anyway. Do you want

Nichole: to know the ages of these people? Kind of. Yeah. The man is 38.

I'm

Laurel: definitely too old for him. Wait, how old is the woman?

Laurel: 42. Wow. Nice.

Daniel: Hence, hence some of the maybe insecurity, right? To like, you know,

Laurel: possibly younger man.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. That's funny. I wonder, I really want to know like what the average age range of the people they hook up with are, because a lot of what they're asking for to me is like qualities that you're going to find in like insecure young people.

Laurel: Thousand percent.

Daniel: I think insecure young people are the prime unicorns

Nichole: of

Daniel: this field of inquiry.

Laurel: Yeah,

Daniel: that's

Nichole: true. So as far as self aggrandizement or boasting, I give it, I give it a six. Yeah. I was going to say seven.

Laurel: Nice. They're pretty. I don't know. I don't

Nichole: think they had any photos

Laurel: of them on a boat, so.

Laurel: Oh, damn. Yeah. Wait, do they feature, can you see their faces in their profile? This

Nichole: is like. Oh, no. Of course not. They are torsos only.

Daniel: Do they have, do they have emojis over their faces? That's those are my, those are my favorite obscured unicorn hunters are the ones with, it's terrifying. Like they're wearing giant emoji masks.

Daniel: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: The real question is, is there any amount of, of beautiful torso that would negate the rest of this profile for you?

Daniel: I mean, the real question is, am I willing to get circumcised

Laurel: in order to

Daniel: unicorn for them?

Laurel: Fun fact, the only, well, the only uncircumcised men in my life are Jews.

Daniel: We were raised uh, feral by, by boomer Jews. Yeah. They were generally, you know, flitted from cult to cult during that era. Yeah. Um, Alright.

Laurel: Yeah. Would I unicorn for them? No. I, like, I have a flat rule of, like, if you're not gonna show yourself in your profile, like, your face, then nah. But also just, like, the, like, here's the thing is I like to unicorn. Like, I like dating couples or just, like, playing with couples. Like I think it's fun, and I think, like, watching couples, like, in relation with each other is really fun.

Laurel: And, usually, like, like, I, like, there is a degree to which, like, I will accept the unspoken parameters. Of that dynamic, especially when it's just like a play thing of like, yeah, you guys want to feel important to each other and there's going to be some like fragility here and, but anyone that like charges out the gate with like, you can't be a human and you can't have feelings and no drama.

Daniel: So, so on a on a scale of 1 to 10. Of how interested you might be in this. You say, Oh, zero. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Zero for me too.

Daniel: Yeah. Zero for me. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna call them oil for this one.

Laurel: That's going to be the new, like, okay. That's instead of like, would we unicorn from them? It's like, would you call them oil for them?

Nichole: And this has been Unicorn Hunter Hunters.

Daniel: Alright, on to Ask the Amateurs.

If you got questions, don't demur, it's time to ask the amateurs.

Laurel: Oh,

Laurel: yeah.

Daniel: We're also going to have a special waiting theme song as Laurel looks up the questions in our special question app.

Nichole: Oh yeah. I'm definitely not going to just cut this.

Daniel: Rude. Leave it on cut.

Laurel: Um,

Laurel: Okay. This was an interesting one. How do you feel about the stigma of long term relationships being impossible versus the reality? What are ways to make them work?

Daniel: And I think that they're implicitly talking about long term poly

Laurel: relationships.

Laurel: Yes, yes,

Daniel: yes. So the idea is around other people's perceptions

Nichole: yeah. Tell me more about the stigma around long term relationships in Polly. I think that there are

Laurel: I think that there are a lot of folks who believe that like, that monogamy is the only way to have a stable long term relationship, and that polyamory is really just like dating around in some capacity.

Laurel: And so when you're really ready to settle down, you'll become monogamous and have a long term relationship. But otherwise, polyamorous relationships don't last.

Daniel: I feel like there are two aspects to this question. There's how the stigma projected by other people might affect you, of people in your life not believing in the validity of your polyamory and of your relationships.

Daniel: And two, since we don't really know where this person is coming from maybe they themselves feel like But they don't have confidence in the long term potential of their own relationships.

Laurel: Yeah. Cause there is the second part to that question is what are ways to make them work?

Laurel: And I, I think by them, they mean the relationships.

Nichole: So let's take the stigma part first. Yeah. So it's how, how do you deal with the stigma?

Laurel: I think, what do you think? I think it was a general sort of like, like discuss amongst yourselves. Like, I mean, do you perceive that stigma? I feel like I've gotten that from people, like.

Nichole: I've had partners who, I've asked partners, like, are you out to your family? Are you out to your friends? And one of my partners said, oh yeah, I'm definitely like out to my mom. She considers it like, just waiting until I settle down. So exactly like what you were talking about. I don't know that anyone has ever affronted me with.

Nichole: So when are you going to break up? Like, I think people are surprised. To learn about the longevity of my relationships. Um, Like I think that, yeah, I don't think I, I've never been like directly accosted by like, Oh, you mean you're frivolous, meaningless, very short term relationships. I think they're just like surprised.

Laurel: And I'm like, well, actually like, like my shortest term current relationship right now is like seven months. And I'm like, Ooh, this is new. My longest term relationship is seven years.

Daniel: What I used to get, you know, when I would tell people that I was polyamorous or that I was non monogamous is a very similar reaction to what people used to say when someone told them that they were queer, which is, well, that's fine for you, but it could never work for me. Like, there's a need generally for people, I've noticed, to put down an immediate boundary.

Daniel: And usually that boundary is around the fact that they just don't think it can work. I don't understand how that can possibly work.

Nichole: Are they basing that boundary or does it confound them because of they don't believe in the possibility of long term relationships within polyamory?

Daniel: I think it usually comes down to like this really fear of jealousy again too.

Daniel: Like they would be jealous, you know, there would be too much conflict where there's usually a right off the bat judgment of I just don't see how it can work. It's not so much maybe anymore. I think a lot has changed over the last 10 years, honestly in visibility for non traditional relationships.

Daniel: But that's the kind of the first stigma that, like, I've experienced in my life and what I've always had to kind of do to reflect back to other people is call their attention to the number of monogamous relationships that work. Because usually they're like, oh, I've never, you know, another thing they'll, they'll like, Oh, I've never seen that work.

Daniel: Every, every non monogamous relationship that I've ever seen is like blown up. Well, how many long term monogamous relationships do you know that just have stood the test of time? Yeah. And are you really sure that all the people in your life who are in long term relationships are monogamous? Like there's this, there's this kind of, yeah. Awareness. They're not, they're not really aware of the, their skewed samples in their perception of what polyamorous relationships looks like. And so the first thing that I do if people are like reflecting that kind of thing back to me is I try to call attention to that is one, you don't know.

Daniel: In most cases, whether people are monogamous or non monogamous. And two you just don't even register all the fricking monogamous relationships that you see that go completely toxic and volatile and blow up. It's just

Laurel: normal. Yeah, it's just normal. And how

Daniel: things

Laurel: go. I mean, all of these freaking people on the apps, not showing their faces, just the torsos, those.

Laurel: Are your happily long term monogamous folks, like, yeah. Oh, yeah. People just like have no idea.

Nichole: This is interesting, actually. Talking about torsos and abs. Tell me more. I was watching the documentary about Ashley Madison.

Laurel: Oh,

Nichole: yeah. A couple weeks ago. And there was a man that they were interviewing who would just swipe through like all of the women on the app, right. Or on the website, we get connected with them, have kind of anonymous sex. He would say that he's married because that's the whole conceit of Ashley Madison.

Nichole: There was another woman that they were. interviewing, who was really into married men and really wanted to dominate them. And she was like, they would come to me because their wives wouldn't be doing what they wanted them to, right? You find out later in the documentary, spoiler alert, they're married. And they are both experiencing relationships outside of their marriage.

Nichole: And they didn't call it polyamory. They didn't call it, they didn't even call it non monogamy. They just called it like ethical cheating, basically, or like visible cheating.

Daniel: But they knew. They

Nichole: both knew.

Daniel: I mean, that would be fun if it was a surprise to both of them and then they're just, it'd be like a, like a kind of a parent trap situation, you know.

Nichole: That'd be so cute. They'd see each other at camp. Yeah. At the cheating camp. But, you know, that to me was, The torsos, you know, the floating torsos around is that like these people felt like they couldn't actually express their polyamorous or non monogamous tendencies. They had to couch it in this like visible cheating parameter.

Nichole: And what they were doing was ethical non monogamy because they were both talking to each other about it and sharing their experiences with each other. It was, it was kind of mind boggling, but. And doing it through like. A site designed for cheating. Yes. But the thing was that, like, you were supposed to be surprised, one, that they were both doing it, two, that they both knew, and three, that they were married to each other and had been for a long time.

Nichole: Salacious.

Daniel: Can, can we really give them uh, an ethical badge, though, if they are facilitating Cheating in

Laurel: other

Daniel: In other relationships. That's

Nichole: true. You're right. So they were non monogamous. They were ethical to each other as far as like explaining to each other what the other person was doing and like sharing the experiences, but they were facilitating cheating and other relationships that were not their own.

Daniel: But for the record, for the record, I think that we should never have to say ethical non monogamy. I think like I'm gonna, I'm gonna never use that until the day when monogamous people have to put it on their relationships too. I'm ethically monogamous.

Nichole: Well I think there's also, I actually prefer consensual non monogamy.

Daniel: Yeah, that gets more to the heart of the matter of what people are actually concerned with.

Nichole: But, and it had an appearance for a while that in that Vogue article from a couple years ago, they start the article talking about, well, it was kind of ethical non monogamy and now we've moved toward consensual non monogamy as a culture.

Nichole: That is what we're calling it now. I've seen it swing back. I've seen ethical non monogamy come back into fore.

Daniel: Also, my brain always kind of reads as, reads it as electronic dance music.

Laurel: Yeah. So

Daniel: I'm, I'm really glad that we're moving away. Away from

Laurel: E& M.

Daniel: Yeah. We're just an electronic dance music couple, you know.

Nichole: We're the coolest electronic dance music couple you'll ever meet.

Daniel: I think one of the reasons why we chose this question is because we're interested in talking more about the ways in which perception of our polyamory has affected us as well.

Daniel: And Nicole, I wanted to, you know, know if you wanted to share anything about your experience in, hesitation towards coming out to your mom

Nichole: I do, I think of the three of us, I'm also the one who is the most in as far as like In my working life and in other arenas that I run around in. So I was very hesitant to tell my mom because, I mean, for a number of reasons. The one that I'll get into

Nichole: is um, fear that she would not think that our relationship was legitimate. And so consciously I chose to tell her after we got married. So, and the way that I framed it was Laurel was coming to Thanksgiving and I did need to be honest with my mom about who Laurel was. Laurel had been at our wedding. She knew who Laurel, like she knew who you were, but she didn't understand, or she didn't know what you meant to me and who you were in relation to Daniel.

Nichole: So I was terrified because. I thought that this would fracture something in our relationship, but also for years, I had been holding back this very central piece of my life. And I would also say, you know, in the two years leading up to us getting engaged, I was more active in polyamory and I was developing my own relationships.

Nichole: And it was something that I couldn't talk about with her. And I remember once was telling you that I was really, really depressed because. I remember the first time I said, I love you to you and I called my mom and I told her about it. And I was afraid that I would never, if, and when I tell somebody else that I love them, I would never be able to tell her that.

Nichole: So when I told my mom, I mean,

Nichole: she actually responded probably in the best way. She said, wow, so that means your relationship is even stronger than I thought it was. And your marriage means more than I thought it did. Because she knew that like, we have an open relationship, and yet we were still choosing each other. And I told her, like, that's part of what draws me to polyamory, is that you make the very conscious decision to choose your partner.

Nichole: The people that you're with all the time, you're not beholden in this kind of monogamous structure of the half twos, you get to be very conscious of the people that you allow into your space and you get to cultivate these very deep relationships and that is an honor and a privilege and she got that.

Nichole: She understood that. She did, she had a lot of questions. And. She was telling me later that she was telling her friend about me. And she told me in relaying the story, she was like, I was telling my friend about, you know, the thing, the thing, the thing that you do with Daniel. And

Daniel: the

Nichole: hokey pokey,

Daniel: you mean our dodge ball league?

Nichole: Well, I was really heartbroken when she said that because I was like, oh, she can't even bring herself to say polyamory. And I held on to that for weeks and I was just very, very depressed and sad about it. And so finally I told her, I was like, hey, like that, that really hurt that you couldn't even say the word.

Nichole: And she was like, Nicole, I didn't know what the word was.

Daniel: You know, you're polyunsaturated.

Mono

Daniel: Glu

Nichole: monosodium glutamate. You're multitool I, so I would say that, I mean, that was a hurdle for me and I knew that part of it was. My fear was that I thought that she might think that our relationship was not legitimate and that it wasn't as strong as it was because I think that has that goes hand in hand with like longevity of a relationship, right?

Nichole: It is assumed that if you have a long term relationship, it is also strong. And that you want to keep doing, keep being in that relationship. So

Daniel: like you were gathering up kind of uh, evidence, married, been together seven years,

Nichole: own a home together, have two dogs together.

Daniel: What can you say about this mom?

Nichole: I mean, yeah, if I'm going to tell somebody who, like, isn't versed in this, and also it probably isn't, like, a choice that she would make, then I need to, I need to frame it in conventional, you know, monogamous culture boxes.

Daniel: This might be a good opportunity for segue into the second aspect of the question.

Daniel: Because. Your initial thought before you came out to your mother and even afterwards when you were worried about how she was perceiving things were far worse than what she was actually thinking. Like, your anticipation, your like internalized perception of the relationships Was really what was, seemed like really that was what was front and center for you.

Daniel: And it turned out that her, she didn't really have a lot of the hang ups. So I wonder if this is a, you know an opportunity to talk about that aspect. Like how much of this stuff do we

Laurel: You know

Daniel: what's

Laurel: so funny is like, people often ask me about like, Oh, like, what is it like to be out? Like, what kind of blow back do you get?

Laurel: And the one, the amount of things like I'm very casually out. So like, I just talk about my life. As I always would. And I don't bother, like, I don't bother to explain the situation. Like people just hear me talk about my partners and sometimes the pronouns are different. Sometimes the names are different and where they live is different.

Laurel: And one of the amount people are just like willing to ignore or gloss over is phenomenal. But most of the time people like do not care. And more often than not, it's more like, you know, good friends or people that I have like better working relationships with that like are willing to be a little more curious about it and like ask straightforward or like, Oh, like, are you in multiple relations?

Laurel: Like trying to clarify or like, or like, Oh, do you mind if I ask like deeper questions of like, Oh, like, do your partners know each other? Like that kind of thing. And, Maybe this is like a testament to the people that I surround myself with, but most of the time they don't say shitty things or make shitty assumptions.

Laurel: And, and so my, like, my sort of like course of thought for other people who are like concerned about being out, I'm like, you'll be surprised how little people are thinking about it or care. What is like totally contrary to this is that like my most recent partner like has some bad experiences with coming out around polyamory and had like friends and parents say like really shitty things and I was like very like taken aback by that.

Laurel: I'm like, like, wow, the audacity of those people to judge, to judge the things that, you know, bring you joy in life so much.

Nichole: I think it relates to the second part of the question as far as like, how do you keep a long term relationship? Being out or being like comfortable with practicing polyamory or consensual non monogamy has to be a part of it. I mean, if you are, if you're keeping a person or multiple persons a secret from most people in your life, those are not going to be long term relationships.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: It sucks to be a secret.

Laurel: Oh, I would, I would feel awful. And it sucks to keep a secret. Like. It's

Daniel: like you have to move past those stigmas in your, Social and community interactions before you can move past the stigmas internally like

Laurel: yeah

Daniel: They're really one is gonna have a big effect on the other and if you are feeling that stigma internally you know, a big part of it might be your unwillingness to, to live truthfully.

Nichole: Yeah. And I think the other, I mean, the other tips, quote unquote, as far as like keeping long term relationships within polyamory are just the same tips that I would give any non or any monogamous person. Yeah. It's just like communicate. Make time for each other.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Practice honesty, practice your own self care, come to the relationship as a full human, or at least a human being who's willing to work on themselves.

Nichole: Like, you know, I don't know that there are any, the only thing that, that feels like a poly specific piece. Is like, probably be comfortable with being in a poly relationship if you want it to be long term.

Laurel: Yeah, cause who wants to, who wants to continue dating somebody who won't hold their hand like, that sucks.

Laurel: And I think, I think the other aspect of it that people have a hard time like, Oh they don't last because you can't, you can't focus. on a person? Like you're too, you're too busy and you're too distracted by all of these other relationships. So how could any one of them actually be like, nurtured and built?

Laurel: Like that requires full time monogamy. And like, How do you have multiple friends? Exactly. Yeah. How do you have multiple friends? How do you have multiple kids? It's like, how do you have multiple parents? Like, yeah, like you just, you balance your time. You're like aware of your own capacity and you stay in the present with the people you're with.

Daniel: And be aware that for most, I think if you tried to dedicate all of your social and emotional energy. To one person. I think it would curdle that relationship very quickly does this person really want you at the other end of a, of a steel tube where they can, you can only see, do they really want tunnel vision?

Daniel: They make these things where

Laurel: you like put it around your head. It's like, it's like a tube.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Like a hamster tube. You put it around your head and then the other person could put it around their head.

Daniel: Why? I don't know. You can't see it. I can't see anybody else,

Laurel: smell

Daniel: anybody else, hear anybody else.

Nichole: It's like a nightmare.

Daniel: Exactly. It's called monogamy.

Nichole: Terrible. No, I want that steel tube to not have anybody in it. And I just want it to be me. I want it to be me in the ground.

Daniel: We know how to bury you now.

Laurel: Moving on. Let's, let's move on to some Is this Polly?

Is this Polly or not?

Daniel: Everybody's favorite segment.

Daniel: Where we look at a little bit of pop culture and decide if it is even in the ballpark. Yeah. So today we're going to look at a few different pop songs. One after the other you know, short songs. Short sentence. One, two, three. One, two, three. Yes, yes, no, no.

Laurel: I brought this one up because one, I like Rilo Kylie a lot, but I listen to this song every time I listen to it, I'm like, is this Pauly?

Laurel: Is Jenny, is Jenny, who is polyamorous? You literally ask the question. I literally asked, like, and I feel like there was one other person that I knew of that was poly and listened to Rylo Kylie. And then I like sent it to them and like really wanted to talk about it. And their response was just like, Oh yeah, I've been listening to Rylo Kylie.

Laurel: And like, just totally dismissive of the content of it. And I was like, well, Fine, I'll just not talk about this for another five years. And I'll just save it for my podcast that I'm going to have.

Nichole: The song is.

Nichole: I think it's just called Delo.

Song: She sleeps on your right side. She gets mailed, I get tied. I sleep on your left side. Hundred ways to keep love alive. Where did you go? Where did you go? Where did you go? Just say so.

Nichole: Yeah. I can't actually say, I'm saying it with such a California accent by the lyrics before that are, you know, I got a mind if you want to waste it, I got a man if you want to fake it, I got some wine if you want to get wasted.

Nichole: I got a place if you want to, ready to go, ready to go, ready to go. The potential Polly is she sleeps on your right side, she gets nailed, I get tied, I sleep on your left side, a hundred ways to keep love alive.

Daniel: The rest of the song leading up to that is just about being, I feel like, young and fun and having outlets to, you know, live the life that you want to live and the thrill about that.

Daniel: The thrill of that.

Laurel: Which is how I feel about my life. So young. So fun.

Daniel: So, I don't know that there's enough. content, poly content in the song to make the song poly. There, there is a threesome, it sounds like, which could fall under a lot of different kind of categories that are not exactly poly.

Daniel: They, she does mention love, which does, which maybe brings it over into the polysphere, but I. I think I'm going to have to, I think I'm going to have to give it a no on, is this song Polly? I feel so betrayed. This is our first, this is our first digression of opinion.

Nichole: Yeah, am I the tiebreaker? You're both looking at

Laurel: me like, They both validate me.

Laurel: No, I mean, Yeah, it's flimsy, but also, Jenny, if you're listening.

Nichole: I have to say that the party aspect of the song makes me think that it is not Polly necessarily.

Nichole: It feels a little like fun, romp, menage a trois.

Laurel: I'm just saying like, who's the Polly's gonna not be a party. This is the problem where we're trying to distance ourselves too much from the fun. No, it's valid. I guess. I just really want Jenny Lewis to hang out with me as well. Oh, for sure.

Daniel: Are you maintaining your, uh, yes, Polly.

Daniel: I

Laurel: had to stand by it, but it's more of like, um, uh, what do you call that?

Laurel: Like a hopeful, you know, it's like, um, I want to manifest. I'm trying to manifest the truth of it by believing in it so hard.

Daniel: You're answering the question with a question in our, in the, in our classic, uh, Jewish manner. So you're like, Is this Polly? I don't know. Jenny Lewis? I don't

know. Yeah. Is this Polly?

Daniel: Call me. Let me know. Yeah. Um, I mean, we would love to have a letter in from, from Jenny Lewis asking. I would die.

Laurel: Yeah, what's our email address? Oh, uh, pollyamaturehour at gmail dot com. Hee hee

Daniel: hee hee.

Daniel: Alright, on to our next pop song. Three, by Britney Spears.

, not only you and me Got one mate, eight degrees And I'm cool in between countin One, two, three, Peter, Paul, and Mary Gettin down with 3P Everybody loves, oh

Laurel: Here's my hot take is I think that this is a very complex story about somebody trying to get their partner to open up to polyamory and then being like, like, no, it's like, it's just for fun for funsies.

Laurel: If you're not into it, fine. It could just be us too. But like, also. three or four

Laurel: It's like the the whack it up bring it back But go all in again, that's I think this is a I think Brittany's doing some complex storytelling here I'm I really thought that it was a moving tribute to Peter, Paul and Mary. I mean, who among us hasn't visualized the threesome of Peter, Paul and Mary? Just rubbing that bald head.

Daniel: This was, this one was a shocker to me. I didn't really know that this song existed until we were Googling around for for poly pop this morning. , I, I do like the complexity to which you were ascribing to, to Brittany here, it's a little bit undercut by some of the lyrics, like living, like this is the new thing.

Nichole: Okay, so the lyrics on Lyric, genius, Uhhuh, and on Google, say, living in sin is the new thing.

Daniel: Oh,

Nichole: I mean, either way, go down the path that you were going with.

Laurel: You're just saying because it's trendy that, like, because she's calling out that it's trendy.

Daniel: I also think that it seems like a lot of the lyrics could have been written by AI. I know it's too early. It's too old of a song for that to actually be true.

Daniel: But it feels like the most, like, let's go for the easiest possible rhyme every time. But now I'm just critiquing the song. This

Nichole: is not what we're here for. I I have a question.

Laurel: What's your question, Nicole?

Nichole: What does getting down with 3P mean? I

Laurel: don't

Nichole: know.

Laurel: Is it like Three people? Also, I'm just wondering if this is a song about counting.

Daniel: Oh, like it's uh, like Sesame Street. Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: This is There's lots of references to numbers. One, two, three. One eighty degrees..

Daniel: Which I think Count

Nichole: in one, two, three. Yeah.

Daniel: I think the one hundred and eighty degrees is like kind of a spit roasting thing? Like there's a guy on either end. Isn't that called his Eiffel Tower? I

Nichole: think it's called the Eiffel Tower.

Daniel: It's only called an Eiffel Tower if the guys are making

Laurel: out. I thought you were just touching hands over

Daniel: there.

Daniel: Like, bro! In

Laurel: making out, it's better.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah, if you high five.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Otherwise, it's just a classic spit roast.

Daniel: Um,

Daniel: I mean, at first glance, like, smell test, sorry. The smell test on this one is like, It seems like it's just about a threesome. Like, like it's just about, and not about relationships. And then it, it does do the, the walk back thing halfway through too, which is, would, you know, I, I know then she walks it forward again, but

Nichole: I like Laurel's interpretation, that it's like she's trying to open the door to polyamory.

Nichole: like,

Laurel: oh shit. Saying

Nichole: it's like super fun, and then walking it back, and then walking it forward again. Yeah,

Laurel: like she sees this person's face as, she's like, but One, two, three, 180 degrees, and the person she's talking to is like, kind of like, you know, they look a little scared. Like, I don't know about this, but it could just be you and

Daniel: me.

Laurel: I'm just saying, like, once again, Brittany, if you want to clarify things, I would be open to that. Is it Polly?

Laurel: It is. It is proto Polly. It is. It is I don't know. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. She, she's, she's trying to get there, but.

Daniel: So you're going to say yes. On this one,

Laurel: I'm gonna say, yeah,

Nichole: Nicole. I mean, I didn't pick up on that, but I really love that story. I, I really like that interpretation of the song, so I think I'm gonna also say, oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Laurel: Dan nor resists.

Daniel: Okay. I'll join in. I'm going to say yes. You don't

Laurel: have to. Now I just feel like, I feel like you're not choosing me. I feel like you feel obligated.

Daniel: No, it's, it's a sense of, it's a wave of joy that I feel overcoming the room.

Daniel: And so I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna roll with it and I'm going to believe. I want to believe.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: It's like I'm going to get a a poster. Like an X Files poster that says, I want to believe with just a picture of Britney Spears.

Nichole: Floating above the pine trees. With two guys.

Laurel: Oh my God.

Laurel: Well, you heard it here first folks. Britney Spears is polyamorous.

Daniel: All right. What's our, what's up next? What's our third pop song?

Laurel: Janelle Monae. I only have eyes for two.

Song: Cause you're the one, you're the one You suck the words from my tongue That's when I knew I only, I only, I only Have eyes for two I don't need a voice to speak with you.

Laurel: They're all like about sex. More so.

Nichole: And threesomes or triads. That tends to be the Yeah. The go to scenario. This

Laurel: one does feel more romantic than the other ones. It does.

Daniel: It feels like a love song.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: And At first, I thought it was more ambiguous. I've now listened to it, I think, three times today.

Daniel: The first time that I heard it, I thought that you're the one like, was forcing a little bit of ambiguity for me. Like, is she singing to one person? But then I realized, Every time she sings I'm the One, she sings it twice. And I think it's a little bit like Oprah. Like, You're the one. You're the one.

Daniel: And then uh, She says, double the What is it? You got the lyrics up.

Nichole: I do, double the fun, triple the time for love.

Daniel: Hmm. So it's also, like, about time management. And I was thinking

Laurel: about that, because I was like, well, triple the time for love, because there's the relationship between her and one partner, and the relationship between her and the other partner.

Laurel: There's also the relationship between the two of them. But if she's just talking about triple the time for love for herself, it's like, with each partner, and then with both partners.

Daniel: Yes. Or with herself.

Laurel: Or with herself, but nobody likes to be alone. I'm just kidding. I love being alone.

Daniel: Nobody loves themselves.

Daniel: Nobody loves

Laurel: themselves.

Daniel: If anybody loves themselves, it's Janelle Monae. And I mean, I mean that in the best possible way. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

Nichole: I feel, I don't know why I got the idea. I mean, it might just be the sweeping romance of the song. Yeah. Yeah. Why it felt like everyone was in relation with each other.

Nichole: None of the lyrics necessarily allude to that, but I think I just got like such a sense of deep love and connection from the song and from the lyrics. Because Janelle Monae does write a lot now in her current, in her current work and her more recent work from personal experience. She was not writing from her personal experience when she was Cindy Mayweather and the ARC android, but yeah,

Daniel: you don't know.

Nichole: You're right. I don't know. Janelle, if you want to email us and tell us if you're an Android,

Daniel: are you a poly Android?

Nichole: I get the sense that like, I mean, not to, you know, jump ahead, but. I would absolutely say this is poly. ,

Laurel: yeah, it definitely feels poly in that there is like an emotional loving and obviously sexual connection between. All of these

Daniel: people. So uh, I'm going to say yes, Polly, as well.

Nichole: I liked doing this. I thought this was a good. Yeah Like you like

Daniel: when it's like just a little amuse bouches.

Laurel: Mm hmm ,

Daniel: what did you Just call me? A couple of moose bitches. , . Little snacks. Little little poly snacks. And

Laurel: again, if, if Jenny Brittany, or Janelle would like to confirm or deny any of my projections onto them, please reach out.

Daniel: We're all three of you? Yeah, we're all, all three. You know. Oh, see, they're, they're gonna one. Ah, ah.

Daniel: They are mostly about closed triads, all these songs or three

Nichole: or three. So it's just the entry point with which culture has decided it's decided that that is the polyamory entry point.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Right. And there's also just like built in drama when you, when it comes to TV shows or movies.

Laurel: Yeah. The triangle is the strongest geometric shape. I don't know if that's true. I just, I really believed you when you said that. Thank you.

Daniel: And I think people are just so astounded with themselves when they finally break through, you know uh, more than two, so to speak, they're like, Oh my God. There's a third number. I have to I, I, I have

Laurel: to Peter, Paul, and Mary?

Daniel: I have to commemorate this with a song.

Laurel: Alright, we're done. Goodbye.

Daniel: Yeah. Nicole says we're done. We're done.

Song: This has been Polyamateur Hour, a production of Risa Records. If you have a question for Ask the Amateurs, or a recommendation for Is This Poly, please email us at polyamateurhour at gmail dot com. If you enjoyed the show, and you know you did, you perv, please subscribe to us on your podcatcher of choice, leave us a five star review, and most importantly, tell at least one person in your life to check us out.

Song: But we hope you tell three. Remember, the advice given by the amateurs should not be followed, unless you are prepared to be ecstatically happy, successful, and strange. Until next time!