Nichole: somebody told me that the episode where Daniel and I fought was their favorite episode. And I was like, why?

Daniel: It's a very special kind of voyeurism.

Nichole: Well, they were like, no, it was just really nice to hear a couple like fight and then resolve kind of in real time. Yeah. And fight, , graciously.

Daniel: Yeah. and if, And if they had like, listened through to the post credit sequence, they could have heard the makeup sex too.

Nichole: No. yeah. What this person doesn't know is that like. The fight just continued in the editing process

Nichole: where we got to fight graciously again. And then Daniel like, literally like held my hand and was like, let's edit this together. And I was like, no, you just take it like you just edit it and just make me sound like a bitch. 'cause I'm just a bitch

Daniel: man. Although I didn't really do it skillfully because part of my co-editing process was like, look, I took this out to make you seem like less of a bitch.

Laurel: Wow. Wow. Yeah, that's true.

Laurel: The truth is whatever people read into it is just their own projections of their history.

Nichole: So, so I guess like we are changing lives, like we're really getting people to think and like, take accountability in this podcast.

Daniel: Everybody except for us.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour. I'm Nicole. I'm Laurel, did you just, did you just shit out your phone? Sorry. Sorry.

Laurel: Well, they found out the safest and most sanitary place to keep your phone now is between your cheeks. I

Nichole: really don't like this.

Daniel: I keep it between my partner's cheeks.

It's is that what's, who are you?

Daniel: Who even am I, um, I'm Daniel and I am polyamorous.

Nichole: You love to make allusions to 12 step programs. Yeah. Why are you so, you

Laurel: love this so much? Why are you so obsessed with it? Man,

Daniel: I think I have a problem.

Laurel: I think you have a problem too. I think it's that you're,

Laurel: I think it's, I think it's because it's something that Nicole gets all to herself and you just keep trying to butt into it.

Nichole: I know, I know. That It has changed my life and it's a super secret club and like,

Nichole: I'm just like really cool. But it is, it is something that I do by myself.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. Hold

Laurel: on. Nina's calling me and I'm gonna take it because I'm ruining everybody's day today. Hello. Yeah, it sucks. I'm trying not to cry about it. in the back of my head, I'm like, I'll feel better in an hour. I'll be fine, but I don't think I'm gonna be, Like obviously you step in for me before, so, The problem is, you can do it better and faster than me. That's what's gonna throw everybody off

Daniel: so, um, do you want to, do you want to tell everybody what your phone call was about Oral?

Laurel: So I've been for the past, like month and a half or whatever, rehearsing for a poll performance that is tonight. ,

Nichole: And this pole routine is to rock lobster? It

Laurel: is To rock lobster. Yeah. Yeah. In which, uh, in which I play the part of the lobster.

Daniel: If you weren't playing the lobster, like I would lose faith that you, were you like, I would start to be suspicious about a pod person replacement?

Laurel: Yeah. When it was first brought to the table of like, we have two lobster costumes, who's gonna be the lobsters?

Laurel: I was like the first one that was like me, but yeah, I didn't wanna like suck the air outta the room, so I was like trying to be polite, but everybody was like, yes, Laurel. You are clearly one of the lobsters.

Daniel: I just, I just imagine, you know, the discussion. So who wants to be a lobster and then everybody just cranes their neck slowly towards Laurel.

Laurel: So that was the plan. It's a group performance. , and yesterday in rehearsal, there was, uh, popping noise in my knee. It was really gross noise. , I'm like performing with five other people. They're special treasures. Like lowered me from the pole and , basically like carried me to a crash mat and like immediately just elevated my leg. They like folded up yoga mats under me because

Nichole: they heard it.

Laurel: Yes. Oh my God.

Oh my God.

Laurel: My knee at the time did not even hurt. Really?

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Um,

Daniel: it just screamed.

Laurel: It just screamed. And so, Yeah. So it started to hurt a lot more last night. Yeah. And heard a lot this morning and I can't really walk very well.

Laurel: Plan B if I'm completely out of the performance and the best thing to do for everybody is for my instructor Nina to be me as the lobster.

Daniel: As the lobster. Yeah. So she's, uh, she's coming through

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: In a pinch.

Laurel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. But I think that means that I get to be the instructor then. Which means nothing in this case. 'cause all I have to do is just cheer and be supportive and be like, I'm so proud of you guys.

Daniel: I thought you could be like a kind of a dominatrix style instructor. Just stand out there with a, with a whip to herd the polled answers.

Laurel: I was noticing I think in like group situations, I can get really impatient. Mm-hmm. but Like everyone will be talking at once not focusing on the thing. and I really just want to like yell at everybody and like, get everyone in line. Mm-hmm. So yes, I would like to be

Daniel: a herding dog in your next life. Yeah. I feel like that's the way that A DHD people are in general we're fine with disordered thinking except in others.

Laurel: Yeah. It's, it's very, very problematic. Um,

Daniel: Well, I'm here to support you this week. Thank you. Volunteering, Nicole, to help support you this week.

Nichole: What if I was like, I'm not here to support. I'm actually really busy, actually. Um, and you start booking a flight.

Daniel: I, I, I even promise as I take care of you that I'm gonna try and like, not enjoy it in any kind of codependent way.

Nichole: Good luck. One of your guys' therapy appointments.

Daniel: I had to catch myself this morning. I was like, do you need me to stand in the shower with you so that you can hold onto me?

Laurel: You didn't catch yourself. You said that and then thought better of it afterwards. Afterwards. Yeah.

Nichole: Uh, well, I guess speaking of what's our first segment?

Daniel: You can't, you can't pivot to a pivot halfway through the pivot.

Nichole: Assumed that it was going to be, is this poly?

Nichole: And I was gonna say, speaking of relationships, which really could pivot to any of the segment, any of our segments. Yeah.

Okay,

Nichole: so we're going into, is this Polly?

Nichole: Yeah. Let's do it. We're going

Daniel: into, is this Polly? We have to, everybody has to agree. Laurel.

Laurel: Yes. We're going into,

Daniel: is this Polly?

Nichole: All right. So we watched Maestro last night. I know that I'm in charge of recapping the plot. Um, but this is just about somebody's life and you don't wanna,

Laurel: you don't wanna recap Leonard Stein's life.

Nichole: You just hate

Daniel: biopics. It's

Nichole: not that I hate biopics, it's that I think unless they're incredibly artfully done, , it's just an impression to me. It's like Val Kilmer going on his Mark Twain tour. Like Val Kilmer went on a

Laurel: Mark Twain tour. Oh yes.

Daniel: I'm really outta the loop. Is this pre twain?

Nichole: It's,

Daniel: Okay. It's,

Nichole: yes.

Nichole: He came out as Mark Twain and just like read a bunch of Mark Twain shit.

Daniel: Weird, but that was especially special because he was also trying to mix it with Christian science. His two great loves and obsessions, Christian Science and Mark Twain, which historically have nothing to do with each other.

Nichole: What So fucking weird. Anyways. Um,

Daniel: I love a Val Kilmer though. I wanna give him a hug.

Laurel: Val Kilmer, if you're listening, write to us.

Laurel: Hello. By the time you are hearing this, Val Kilmer is Dead.

Laurel: Without Equivocation Poly Amateur Hour takes full responsibility for this tragedy. We understand now the terrible power of our offhand references to celebrities. First, Chris Christofferson, and now Val. To Val.

Laurel: If you are listening from on high, please know that Daniel really did want to give you a hug. He never shuts up about real genius. I personally watched Tombstone the other night in Memoria. It was a big chunk of propaganda, but Val was wonderful, charming, and extremely fuckable consumption and all.

Laurel: Please? Enjoy the rest of the episode only slightly haunted by the specter of our own mortality.

Daniel: For those of you at home, Laurel is putting her injured leg up on the table for us all to reiki

Laurel: babe. It's not a podcast unless I'm fucking with the audio. Somehow I have zero lozenges, no pixy sticks. Yeah,

that's true.

Nichole: You're,

Laurel: it's always something with you.

Nichole: Okay. So Leonard, Lenny. Lenny,

Daniel: was he wearing a prosthetic nose? Yes. That's my first question. She was,

Nichole: yes.

Laurel: Are you offended by his nose, his prosthetic nose?

Daniel: A little bit.

Daniel: How do I play a Jew? Just put a big schnoz on. Everybody's fine with it. It's fine.

Laurel: Is it different when it is an impression where it's like he's actually trying to look like another human being that existed versus I'm just playing an imaginary Jew like that is anti-Semitic.

Laurel: Like I'm playing Jew bronstein and, and I put on a fake nose to do it. That's anti-Semitic.

Daniel: Okay. That is the argument that people use to say, I can do blackface for Halloween. 'cause I'm playing Billie Holiday.

Laurel: I will give, I am, I will give you a point on that. But.

Laurel: I don't care about the nose.

Nichole: Anyways. Okay, so Maestro is about the life of Leonard Bernstein and his romance and marriage to his wife Felicia Monte Allegra.

Nichole: So recapping this movie is like recapping his life.

Daniel: Here are the beats. I think I can do it. Yeah. Take some beats all, yeah. Here's some. Ooh.

Laurel: Are you gonna fucking

Nichole: freestyle? Wrap it. Wrap out. That was like the only genre they didn't go into in this. Yeah.

Daniel: Tapping out.

Nichole: That was good. That was really good.

Daniel: All right.

Daniel: So big beats.

Daniel: It starts with his being an understudy, , for the New York, , Philharmonic.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And becoming kind of famous overnight. And, , at that point, he is pretty much living as a gay man. , he has a boyfriend who he says that he loves all the time. , he meets a woman, , whose name only Nicole will remember.

Nichole: Felicia Monte Allegra.

Daniel: Yes. Every time I want to say the name of

Nichole: Felicia Monte Allegra,

Daniel: I'll just point to Nicole to recall.

Nichole: Felicia Monte Allegra,

Daniel: so he meets this woman at a party and they really fall in love.

Clip: So I had no choice to become a composite adopted speech manner outlook on life composite, which enables me to be many things at once. I. And that's why we, you and I are able to enjoy and survive. 'cause the world wants us to be only one thing.

Clip: And I find that deplorable. I find it very attractive. Felicia

Daniel: they get married, they enter into the marriage and the relationship with a really explicit discussion , , that they are going to live a free and open life, and an acknowledgement that she knows that he is queer and she is going to accept it,

Clip: oh, life is not that serious. How is it isn't? What day do we living in one can be as free as one likes without guilt or confession. Please, what's the harm? I know exactly who you are. It's give it a will.

Daniel: And then we see him become famous. We see him, giving interviews while he is in the process of writing West Side Story. , we see, you know, some amazing performances, I think for the first part of their relationship, maybe he wasn't seeing other people. And then he jumps forward in time and they've got kids and he goes and like hangs out with his old boyfriend and, , goes home and is like,

Clip: So sagging me a little while. Sings in me no more.

Daniel: And she says,

Clip: If the summer doesn't sing in you, then nothing sings in you, and if nothing sings in you, then you can't make music.

Daniel: So go out there and start fucking some boys

Daniel: It's implied. Did you guys get that from this conversation?

Laurel: Here's the thing is I was getting messages all through this movie, but I wasn't sure if I was receiving the right message.

Laurel: Me too. And then eventually we turned the subtitles on.

Nichole: Yeah. Apparently we're not the only ones who had difficulties understanding what they were saying. Oh, that's good. Like, that's one of the main complaints about the movie is that you can't actually hear Bradley Cooper 'cause he's mumbling the whole time.

Nichole: Oh, I feel less bad about myself now. Um, I'm here to make you feel less bad about yourself. Thank you. Of course. Thank you. Um, there were several fraught conversations about, , Lenny's extramarital relationships. , and at the same time there was an overlying conversation about like, accepting your sexuality

Nichole: , , and being discreet. I couldn't grasp whether Felicia was saying like, I need you to be authentic to yourself, but also keep it secret

from everybody.

Daniel: Here's the thing, here's the thing.

Laurel: Here's the thing's. The thing, yeah.

Daniel: I feel like that conversation that they had about him having more relationships outside of the marriage being so abstract to the point where , it takes the form of them discussing a poem

mm-hmm.

Daniel: Is representative of the way that they talk about relationships throughout the movie.

Nichole: Yes. Yes.

Daniel: And that's why we were really unclear about exactly what was going on is because they talk about it in poetic abstract terms whenever they talk about it, but they talk about it a lot.

Nichole: Okay. So one of the reasons I didn't want to review this movie for is this Polly, is because it's about actual people. And we can't tell from a movie like a, you know, representation of their actual life, whether or not that relationship was poly. Yeah.

Daniel: But we can do a little bit of research and I did do a little bit of research. Well, good. One of us did. When, before I even watched the movie, I was like, oh, remember Bernstein was Polly.

Daniel: And yes. Like he had long-term committed relationships outside of his marriage. , and

Daniel: knowing that this was more or less a polyamorous relationship and seeing the way the movie treated, it gave me an interesting awareness of the tension between are the people Polly and is the movie Polly? Because, okay. Like maybe he's got this completely polyamorous relationship

Daniel: , and yet the movie was just overwhelmingly focused on , the legally prescribed, heterosexual marriage that he had. Like the movie's interest its focus mm-hmm. Is not poly. Yeah. The movie's focus is monogamous.

Nichole: I mean, it has to do that to create tension and drama. Right. Like, I don't think in the course of the movie, they don't describe the other relationships at all. In several places they describe Leonard Bernstein's other relationships as affairs,

Daniel: I just don't know that they had the terminology

Nichole: I'm just saying that they leaned more toward his. His having affairs rather than having relationships. Felicia was sad because she was the put upon wife.

Nichole: Yeah. And he was doing coke and banging dudes and writing musicals. So

Daniel: Sounds like a life, doesn't it?

Nichole: And lying to their family. Yeah. Because his daughter is like,

Nichole: are the rumors I'm hearing about you? True. And he says they're not true

Daniel: at the urging and threatening of his wife.

Clip: Well, I think she's old enough, don't you think? Well, I don't care how old she is. I ask that you were discreet. Well, I think she's coming in age where she needs to, deserves to know what Is she Dolly? She didn't ask for any of this. It was my decision. Well, no, that was our decision such as yours.

Clip: Don't do dare. Dead of the truth.

Laurel: Speaking back to the point of like the very beginning when they're like talking about getting married and Felicia, you know, says we can be absolutely free.

Laurel: And that's like, that's sort of like the naivete.

Hmm.

Laurel: Because like, I can say like, yes, I'm okay with you sleeping with other people and you're okay with me sleeping with other people, but there is no freedom if you have to keep it a secret.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yep.

Laurel: Daniel and I were talking about this a little bit last night.

Laurel: One, because I was very confused about what was happening during most of the film,

Laurel: but I was like Like when he, at that party that they're hosting, when he goes and makes out with Tony in the hallway, she seems upset about it.

Laurel: And Daniel s said like, oh, she's not upset about the other relationships. She's upset about his lack of discretion, which is like a lack of showing up for their family,

Clip: fix your hair. You're getting sloppy.

Stubert: The sloppy polys. Let's call them the sloppy polys.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Just because it's not a completely stable or healthy poly relationship doesn't mean it's not a poly relationship.

Nichole: Yeah. And I think honestly, general audiences who don't have our perspective would see that scene that way.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah.

Daniel: So I think it's difficult to talk about the polyness of the movie without talking about like it's central theme, which I'm just going to state because I am correct.

Laurel: Mm.

Daniel: the connection between artistic expression and love and sex.

Clip: Well, I have one or two saving, saving factors, John. One is that I love people. And I love music. I love music so much. It keeps me glued to life even when I'm most depressed and the other is that I do, I love people so much that it's hard for me to be alone,

Clip: Yes, you are the only person I've ever met who leaves the bathroom door open for fear of being alone.

Clip: Either one believes in the divine element in his one doesn't. And as long as I believe it. Which I assume is why I love people so much. Then I have to believe that some remote corner of my soul there is a way out.

Daniel: Do you know what I mean? Like, like Yeah, yeah. Like he, he, yeah. Yes. He was almost voicing a kind of poly philosophy, but it was so abstract that you couldn't really nail it down, which is probably the way that he spoke in his actual life. 'cause a lot of that is in these interviews that they are recreating.

Daniel: So it's probably recorded speech from him mm-hmm. That they were going back to. ,

Daniel: Um,

Laurel: Yeah. I wish that I wanted to watch that movie again. Like, I don't really, but I feel like it would make more sense to me on a second go around.

Daniel: Yeah.

Daniel: We should probably describe like the last half hour of the movie.

Nichole: Oh, the cancer. His wife gets sick and everyone's really sad and it's really, um, it is a devastating performance by Kerry Mulligan. Yeah. Devastating. Yeah.

Daniel: It reminded me of the ways, specifically Laurel, that you've spoken about, the actual role of monogamy and when it makes sense in people's lives are when there are these caretaking situations the relationship of necessity, like end of life necessity,

Laurel: or at least hierarchical,

Daniel: yeah.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Polyamory, hierarchical polyamory, I guess what I'm saying is overall the movie was most interested in making that the centerpiece of its story.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah. It begins and ends with Leonard Bernstein talking about his wife.

Nichole: Like it's about their relationship.

Daniel: Yeah. So maybe now we can ask,

Nichole: is this Polly? I.

Laurel: I feel like as we talk about it more and I realize what was happening at certain parts a little more, I'm like, okay, yeah, I can see it. , maybe whatever was going on in Leonard Bernstein's actual life could be described as polyamory

Laurel: , but yeah, there is no depictions of Felicia or Leonard's other relationships that go beyond. A kind of tawdry affair depiction, correct?

Mm-hmm.

Laurel: And so in that sense, no, in the sense that there is a lot in this movie that is said, but not seen or seen, but not said maybe,

Daniel: yeah, I'm gonna have to do a two phase, is this Polly on this and say the relationships, even what we saw of them in the film. Absolutely. Poly I believe that his relationship was as Polly as you could have in that day and age. And as much of a public figure as he was.

Daniel: Exactly. Yeah. however, I don't think that the movie itself is Polly because of its preoccupation with the centrality of this one relationship and the way that the movie treats these other relationships. Yeah.

Daniel: It's almost like out of frame, right? Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: If you're thinking about how a movie literally frames certain elements of someone's life, all the stuff that mattered to me was kind of happening off camera.

Nichole: Yeah. I mean, I, I, again, it's really hard for me to, to divorce this film as an entity from the actual people, right?

Nichole: Yeah. But also, I come with my own bullshit baggage of just like not liking biopics, um, what baggage you carry around. Wow. I will rail against them to anyone who will listen.

Daniel: She's in therapy for it. Everybody. She's working on it. Her father went to go see a biopic and never came home.

Nichole: Um, so I gotta say no because it, it again, it had many poly themes, but it did feel like any kind of exploration into polyamory or equanimity in this relationship was subsumed by, , isn't it crazy to see him doing coke and you know, like wanting to fuck a dude. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel: Heard it here first, folks. It is not poly and poly

Laurel: and hard to understand what people are saying. You gotta put on the subtitles. Yeah. Put on the subtitles. Do yourself a favor.

Daniel: I mean, at the end of the day, I think my, my, my verdict about this movie is now sup.

Uh,

yeah,

Laurel: darling, darling.

Laurel: All right. What's next? Is it time to ask the amateurs? Let's ask '

Daniel: em,

Laurel: call ' em up.

Laurel: I recently started dating someone who knows about my existing partners and accepts that I am polyamorous, but she is only interested in being with one partner at a time.

Laurel: I already have a house, a pet, and shared plans for the future with my current partners. So I have been clear with her that things like living together, marriage and sharing finances are off the table for our relationship. She eventually wants a relationship with all of those things, but is unlikely to look for someone to quote unquote settle down with while we are together, should I continue dating her, knowing that we will have to break it off eventually or break it off now knowing that in the long term we are incompatible In my dream Polly scenario, we would be able to continue our relationship in some form while she finds dates and rides the relationship escalator with her eventual primary partner.

Laurel: But this seems unlikely given her interest in only being with one person at a time.

Nichole: I don't know that we've ever gotten a question of like, should I continue to see this person? I think that ends up being the advice. Sometimes it's like, yeah, break up, but like,

Daniel: um, we're gonna put the entire responsibility of this relationship on Nicole specifically.

Laurel: Oh, Nicole, yes or no?

Laurel: Why me specifically?

Daniel: Because I know that it's gonna make you the most uncomfortable. Rude. What? Because I feel like me or Laurel will just like roll a 20 sided dice and then, uh,

Laurel: we're okay with holding that kind of, pretend power. Um, all right. Do you know what my answer's gonna be already?

Nichole: Uh, I don't know.

Laurel: Maybe

Nichole: I, I thought I did, but now I don't. I don't know that I do.

Daniel: Is it? Is it, is it our standard? Don't worry about it.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: I've got, I've got a nuance. Don't worry about it.

Yeah.

Daniel: And then you can share your, don't worry about it.

Okay.

Daniel: Okay.

And then I'll say something. Yeah.

Daniel: And then Nicole will worry about it, and then Nicole will decide whether they're gonna stay together or not. First, I think the way that it's phrased in the letter is a little bit vague as far as where this information is coming from, of they are unlikely to search for another partner while we are together. Mm. Have they said this? Have they said, I am unlikely to actually go look for another partner while we are together and find my forever person as they, uh, monos like to say,

Laurel: as the

Daniel: monos like to say.

Daniel: so I think that's really important. And if it is something that you are extrapolating from the situation, that's where the don't worry about it comes in because it is their responsibility To decide what they're comfortable with and what they want to do for now and for the future. , and I don't think that you should put that on yourself to have, to make sure that they're free enough to find what they really want. On the other hand, if they have said, I'd like to get into a relationship with you, but I want a monogamous long-term relationship and I am not going to look for that while we are together, then I feel like there might be something a little bit manipulative and strange going on from the stupid once removed , like saying that is kind of putting the responsibility on you.

Daniel: Mm.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And in that case, I'm like, , yeah. , end it just 'cause that's kind of shitty, right? Mm-hmm. but not because there's anything ethically wrong with you being in this relationship.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like when I read or see advice stuff, like people are so often like, oh well, you know, you're incompatible. So like, fuck you for continuing that relationship, which I think is such weird advice.

Laurel: I think it's really mono normative advice and really relationship escalator you advice that assumes that a relationship has a destination, , and that that destination, , is , complete compatibility

Daniel: and being alone in a house together with your immediate family while one of you dies.

Laurel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. Which is what I would like. Please. , like I agree with you Daniel. Like, if it is the prerogative of this other person to ultimately like, end up in a, monogamous escalator relationship , like that's on them to like. Figure that out and act in their own, like best interests in that regard. but like, I don't know.

Laurel: I'm never one to like not have a relationship because it might not work out in the future. Even if it's like, oh yeah, clearly we don't want the same things down the line, like things could change. They will change. Maybe things will end for completely different reasons.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Um, and you never know, like even the relationships where I get into and it seems like, oh, we're perfect and we want all of the same things.

Laurel: Those fall apart for all kinds of reasons anyway. like predicting the end of a relationship before it starts. Is my specialty,

because I'm hearing what y'all are saying, but

Nichole: not a but more of an, and

Nichole: I don't know that the question is, should I break up with this person? I think the question should be, am I asking the right questions of myself in this relationship?

Nichole: Am I taking stock of myself? Am I taking stock of this other person? Am I really looking at this from a perspective that is actually real with facts?

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Right? Because there is a little future tripping happening. Um, and, and there might be some assumptions that are made as far as like, this person isn't going to look for another relationship while we're together.

Nichole: Yeah. We also don't know, I, I guess we, we do know that this person is monogamous and only wants to be with one person isn't interested in polyamory at all.

Daniel: So I think this relationship, um, is currently what they would call a mono poly relationship.

Laurel: Uhhuh. Yeah. Yeah. Where one side Considers themselves monogamous and the other polyamorous and Right.

Laurel: Seems consensual.

Nichole: I would have to ask myself, like in the now if I feel okay with that. Mm-hmm. Not necessarily because of things that are gonna happen in the future, but things that are happening right now. Do I feel good about dating somebody who doesn't wanna date anybody else but knows actively that I'm dating other people?

Nichole: Mm-hmm. I think compatibility is an important thing to consider when it comes to relationship styles.

Daniel: there's so many questions here in this one question, like folded up in the yes or no, should I stay with this person or not are a lot of implied questions. I think one I just got from the vibe of the letter, and I might be reading into it, was that ethical question. But there is also the question of like, am I okay with the possibility of this person finding somebody and then ending the relationship with me?

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Another question that this question brings up, what is the relationship, right? Is it just fun?

Nichole: 'cause those relationships are also valid.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Like if it's not running on the escalator and this person knows that you're not available for the escalator, like that seems like also a valid kind of relationship to have and doesn't necessarily imply any kind of misalignment. It's just like, yeah, I'm not really into dating other people.

Nichole: I'm really dating like monogamously, um, or sleeping with one person at the, at a time. And you're that person right now.

Daniel: Yeah. And you shouldn't over. Analyze the question of whether or not they really just want you to come around and be monogamous someday. You know, unless they are regularly saying things like, I'm just, oh, I'm just gonna be fine over here.

Daniel: Uh, I'll just stay all to myself and, and, um, while you, you know, unless they're, you know, kind of acting like, uh, Felicia Monte Degra. Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yeah. I feel like yeah, like that's the part, that's the point at which I wouldn't want to be in that relationship anymore, Mm-hmm. if they were making me responsible for their monogamy or polyamory and their ability to like find like a life partner outside of our relationship, then I would be uncomfortable with the relationship.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. And end it,

Laurel: also, I keep tucking my shirt

Daniel: into my under boob.

Daniel: I thought you were just playing with your tits. Oh no, I just talking about relationships just really turns you on. You're like, you're like,

Laurel: remember when I got monogamy zoned? Ah, yeah.

I think we answered the question. Yeah.

Daniel: Don't worry about it. Don't. Unless, unless they're being weird and pouty about it. Don't worry about it. Unless you're worrying about it. Don't worry about it. Unless they're worrying about it. don't worry about it Unless Stu wants removed.

Daniel: Is in distress about it and communicating this to you in ways that make me uncomfortable.

Laurel: That make you uncomfortable

Daniel: specifically. Yeah.

Nichole: Ta shall we move along home?

Daniel: Oh, yes.

Laurel: What are we doing?

Daniel: Unicorn? Hunter hunters.

Laurel: Yay. Yay.

Daniel: It's time to go and hunt for you. Unicorn hunters,

Laurel: you just change the theme. This is a new theme.

Daniel: I'm just stacking themes. Wow. Theme upon

Laurel: theme. Upon theme. Until almost the entire show is just theme songs. I know. I know it's happening. I have a problem.

Daniel: I have a big ventriloquist dummy.

Daniel: Obviously things are getting out of control.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Unicorn hunter hunters is a segment where we look at unicorn hunter profiles on the internet. What's a unicorn hunter?

Laurel: Unicorn Hunter is a heterosexual couple, typically seeking a bisexual woman to play with them.

Laurel: But we've kind of broadened that definition.

Nichole: And we rate them on three categories.

Daniel: Self-aggrandizement, arbitrary rules. And would we unicorn for them?

Nichole: so gimme this profile.

Daniel: She is my goddess. And I am her devoted king. Together we are an intoxicating force, power seduction, and absolute control.

Daniel: We are a dominant couple seeking submissives, who craves structure, discipline, and deep erotic surrender. Our play is built on trust, anticipation and control. Where pleasure is a privilege, and obedience is rewarded. What you'll experience fire emoji it's like a job description.

Daniel: Yeah. Or or like a or like a spa retreat. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What you'll experience impact play floggers paddles. Canes. The sting you crave. Mm. So also a little bit of a brodo reference there. Maybe it's the sting submissives crave restraint and rope ChAARI. Full body binding submission In stillness sensation play ice wax.

Daniel: Deep touch teasing control. Obedience training protocols, commands, mental domination, I'm gonna start reading it like an advertisement, erotic denial and discipline. Edging, patience, teasing. Surrender. Who we want. Submissives and masochists who crave both discipline and desire. Brats who want to be tamed.

Daniel: Service subs, eager to obey. And please worshipers who long to kneel and surrender.

Daniel: Hammer emoji. Seeking more than just submission. We're also building a retreat center and sex dungeon on our land, creating a space for deep exploration and pleasure. Skilled builders, handymen and retreat helpers are welcome to apply. Oh my God. If you know your way around tools, tree houses, or dungeon setups, there may be unique rewards in store.

Daniel: Oh,

Daniel: it's a cult.

Laurel: What?

Daniel: Okay. I um, it's not done. Oh

Nichole: God.

Daniel: I mean, you're welcome to comment mid coitus.

Nichole: I mean, I was just gonna ask will I experience all of those things in one night or?

Laurel: Well, yeah. You don't, You don't get the sex without first building a shed on a homestead

Nichole: and then I get to experience ice play, wax play ChAARI and restraints and submission and dominance and like,

Daniel: and a tree house. Just a lot. This isn't just play,

Laurel: this is also labor.

Daniel: This isn't just play... the profile continues... It's about power. Yeah. Chemistry and true submission.

Daniel: If you are ready to serve, obey, and help build something unforgettable. Kneel and reach out.

Nichole: Are you, are you fucking kidding me? Let me see the picks. Are you kidding me? The pics. Lemme see the pics. Are you kidding me? Let me see the pics.

Daniel: Um, should I move over to her profile? Oh,

oh my God. Just say, Hey, me and my hubby.

We really like this.

Daniel: I am a goddess Dom. I'm demisexual. So connection and honesty are the highest priority to me. I'm new to ENM and relatively new to kink. I have a nesting partner who I absolutely adore. We are currently dating mostly together and occasionally, separately.

Daniel: We're currently looking for a sub who's interested in impact play and Jabari that wants to play with both of us, ideally or just with me. We would also love to find connections who are grounded and interested in meditation, silence, and deep conversations about humanity, the world and nature, not just here for sex.

Daniel: If that's your only goal, I'm sure there's someone else out there for you. I would love to find a woman who wants to worship me. Uh, unicorn emoji would be perfect. Heart emoji. I am new to experiences with women and I'm very interested in exploring more.

Daniel: I would also love to find a sub who's committed to only me while I date other people. I'm an exhibitionist and have a praise kink. I love to be worshiped. If you get to know me, I'll tell you how many times I can come. Guess how many jelly beans are in the jar? That's me and that's not her saying it. Um, I can be wild when I'm cooing endlessly, and I've been known to bite devil emoji for the men.

Daniel: I am a size queen and prefer a minimum of eight inches. Also open to making OnlyFans content. I'm down to earth and very honest heart emoji looking for like-minded people. I'm getting whiplash looking for like-minded people. I am introverted and neurodivergent. I love exploring nature and spending time outside the city.

Daniel: Four 20 friendly.

What? Okay, I,

Laurel: what just happened?

I'm just, I, I, oh no.

Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. She's like, she's got a gentle little lamb brain at first, but now,

Nichole: just the, the leaps from I'm new to kink.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: And I have an exhibition like, and I want somebody to, to worship me and only me. I mean, this journey goes all over the place and I'm, I am scared for her.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I think this is a unique. Sub genre of unicorn hunters are the cult unicorn hunters. Mm-hmm. Right. Well,

Laurel: it's like they found a place where they can sort of pseudo acceptably, advertise their cult.

Laurel: They used to just have to network to do this shit.

Daniel: And it does read like an ad, like a bulleted features of the product ad.

Nichole: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But they're incredibly blatant toward the end. Yeah. Of like, if you're ready to submit

Laurel: Neil. Neil,

Nichole: Usually you don't get that kind of language until you're at like the fourth or fifth meeting, quote unquote, because you met some guy on the street who like said, Hey, you look kind of sad.

Nichole: Come and join my friends. And you're like, in this, you know, like, living room of someplace and like you've been drinking tea and talking about feelings, and then by the fourth or fifth time you're like, yeah, maybe I do wanna give you all of my money.

It would make you feel better. And then, is this a true story?

Daniel: This feels like there's too much detail. Is

Laurel: I think, they did, they figured out how to skip three steps, which was to find people who are already interested. In kink. But they sh they should have concealed the building our retreat thing till like the eighth or ninth meeting 'cause they just Wow.

Laurel: Revealed their hand. I wanna see pictures. Okay, now we gotta see pictures.

Daniel: So they are hot. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Um, the murder basement does look like a

Nichole: do we know they're in a basement?

Daniel: Maybe not. There's

Nichole: wood paneling and I'm jealous of the wood paneling and that makes me mad.

Daniel: he's got his orange safety helmet and, , serious walkie-talkie headphones on,

Laurel: Presumably, , in construction phase on the retreat center?

Daniel: He is ready to hammer and drill

Laurel: Uhhuh.

Daniel: he's like on a yoga mat, doing a stretch with a stone. with like a real,

Laurel: it's a small rock. It's like a rock you could hold in the palm of your hand. Like,

Daniel: wait, no, that's his sock. He's wearing toed socks.

Laurel: It's not actually a stone.

Laurel: Oh, just kidding.

Nichole: There is a plush unicorn sitting next to them as they pose sexually in front of the mirror.

Daniel: That toy unicorn Could be you.

Daniel: And then there's this one just fucking weirdly enough,

Daniel: I just have a picture of myself, uh, biting on my thumb with a half shirt.

Laurel: In a

Laurel: pink Hello Kitty crop top.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Cute.

Daniel: Are you guys turned on now?

Laurel: Yeah.

Laurel: All right. Well, that was a lot. That was a lot. That was so much like his whole profile was a lot. And like, I fucking, I don't ever wanna read anything ever written by a male dom.

Nichole: Honestly leave a little to the imagination. Yeah. You know, like, with the cult thing, let me come to naturally want to follow you.

Laurel: Yeah. Let me find my own way. Manipulate me into submission. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: Isn't it a little bit, better to have the surprise like in 50 Shades of Gray where he opens the door and then you're like, oh, now it's too late.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Nichole: then the tonal shift of like her profile. Yeah. And it it just gives me so much pause. 'cause they are not on the same page. Yeah. She doesn't even

Laurel: seem like she's on the same

Nichole: page with

Laurel: herself.

Nichole: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yes.

Daniel: Like were there sections of her profile that were written by him

Laurel: Or influenced by him?

Laurel: I don't know. Like parts of her profile seemed like cute, normal, and nice. Mm-hmm. And then parts were like, wait, what?

Laurel: Are you sure? But you're new to this. Yeah. Yeah. That's, ugh. I think I don't like aggressively sexual profiles.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I especially don't like aggressively. Dom profiles. Yes. Uh, and maybe that's just a personal thing and there are people out there that are really into that, but I immediately don't trust those people.

Daniel: Yes. Yeah. And the way that the profile is structured is like, oh no, it's not just submission.

Daniel: It's more than submission. No, it's more than more than submission. It is a submission to the degree of submission that you have never seen before. buy a boy a drink first. Like what is Yeah. What is going on. Yeah. Like you is weird to try and sell complete spiritual and physical submission to someone you don't know.

Nichole: It's asking the profile to do a lot of work.

Laurel: Yes. Work that it's just simply not capable of doing

Nichole: and makes me think like, I don't know, you can write all you want, but like, it seems a little doth protest too much. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't believe that you know how to do all the things that you list the 29 activities that we would do in one night.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Do they not know

Daniel: that FET life exists?

Nichole: That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah.

Nichole: It's Yeah. Exclusively kink almost. Except for, you know, the whole Except for the cult part. The cult and labor part. Yeah.

Daniel: Which is the best part, like when I'm looking at these profiles as I do, , because all the unicorn hunter hunting labor is put onto me. True. Um, I'm often looking for,, boats and cults.

Mm-hmm. Those

Daniel: are the things that I know. It's, it's mainly to satisfy Nicole. You know, I can never be satisfied. Exactly. The size of the steering wheel that you need in order to

Laurel: Just one bigger

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: To one bigger. So these people are insane.

Laurel: Yeah. Self, self-aggrandizement. 10 off the charts. I'm appalled.

Nichole: You know, I gotta agree. Yeah. Like, even

Laurel: though there's

Nichole: no boat. Yeah. I mean, it's, it, yeah. Yeah. Yep. That's a 10.

Daniel: Yep. Wow. I'm gonna give him a 10 too. Whoa. Wow.

Laurel: Triple 10. Perfect. Score from the judges.

Laurel: You

Daniel: know what makes me feel kind of gross? Why?

Daniel: I think they'd be stoked to know.

Nichole: Oh yeah. They would. Oh, a thousand percent. Yeah. Yes. You've got a

Daniel: 10 in something.

Nichole: Yeah. Uh, arbitrary rules.

Daniel: I mean, there aren't actually rules stated, but the degree of control that he is going to impose on you.

Daniel: Yeah. I think that I gotta give them a 10 in arbitrary rules.

Nichole: also she won't take anybody under eight inches.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. She won't take Smurfs.

Daniel: Nobody that's two apples high. Okay. Gotta be

Nichole: uh,

so

Nichole: dumb.

So dumb.

Nichole: I would also say 10.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Are they gonna, I mean, those are the only number ratings, so they just got like tens across the board. Yeah '

Nichole: cause I think we all know the answer to the last question. Absolutely. I've been looking to build a shed.

Laurel: I've been hankering for some hard

Daniel: labor. so, no.

Laurel: Absolutely not. I don't trust them. I'm scared and I don't trust them.

Daniel: That basement look like a little, like the get out basement.

Nichole: We keep calling it a basement. We don't know that it's a basement were there any

Laurel: windows?

Daniel: Windows allow for two Easy of an escape.

Laurel: Yeah. But maybe that's like the tease element, like you think you could escape. They leave the door wide open Uhhuh and the

Nichole: windows wide open. Yeah. Uhhuh. And then you get to see what happens when you try.

Laurel: Yeah. And then they release the hounds. God.

Laurel: Well, it went from cults to like serial killers. Murder cabin. Yeah, it's a murder cabin.

Daniel: Is this a new rating of murder cabin? Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, once in a while I keep trying to introduce new ratings. Right.

Nichole: Yeah, you do. And we always shut you down. Uhhuh. You always shut me

Daniel: down. But I got one. What is it? The danger scale. Oh. Oh. Which is kind of a callback. Yes. To the

Nichole: callback. Yes. To the more, yeah.

Daniel: It's kind like

Laurel: that. Yeah. Okay. Because there's multiple ways you can interpret danger here. Yeah,

Daniel: yeah, yeah. All right. What do you give 'em on the danger scale?

Laurel: Oh, a 10. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Will kill us given the chance.

Laurel: Maybe even on accident. 'cause they don't really know how those ropes work. Exactly. Fire and ice. What

Daniel: are you, he's thinking about it. Why are

you thinking?

Daniel: Well, I don't think I'm gonna give them a tan on the danger scale. I've seen profiles that I felt like the people were creepier and would be less likely to respect boundaries. I'm gonna give 'em an eight

Daniel: because you think you could escape.

Laurel: That's your problem, man.

Nichole: See, I think this is like gender dynamics in play. Yeah. That the two women are like ass a fucking literally not.

Daniel: Yeah, maybe. But I don't think he's looking for me, so

Nichole: No, he's not. Yeah. I'm

Daniel: not his prey. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's She's not

Nichole: looking for you either. And that's why she feels

Laurel: safe.

Daniel: because I'm wearing my half shirt,

Laurel: it's a crop top babe.

Nichole: Yet no one's ever called it a half shirt.

Daniel: That's what they were called in the eighties when it was advertised to men, where it was actually a thing that men were wearing.

Nichole: Oh, I've seen, and I'm really mad that that's not a style anymore.

Nichole: Like my eyes might like actually pop out of my head and my tongue might actually fall out of my mouth if I saw a dude walking down the street wearing like short shorts at a crop top,

Nichole: I'm talking like Venice Beach 1986

Daniel: big beef steak in a half shirt. Are they oiled?

Nichole: Yeah. And listening. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Am I totally objectifying?

Nichole: How

Laurel: do you Yes. How do you feel? 'cause you have a December birthday, but how do you feel about celebrating your birthday in the summer? Are you gonna give me a stripper? I'm gonna gonna, I'm gonna arrange a group of men to dress like this and walk down Alberta.

Okay, so my sobriety birthday is July 15th and like that's halfway through, so maybe, yeah, you could, maybe for that, maybe, maybe.

Nichole: Congratulations, Nicole. On 13 years of not drinking past some men,

Daniel: she's not sober of oily men. Yeah. I'm not dead. No one's sober of oily men.

Daniel: We're also surrounded by images in this basement that were selected for Nicole of oily women mm-hmm. In sweaty aerobics outfits.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. From the eighties,

Daniel: I just realized Nicole just has a type across the board.

Laurel: Across, yeah.

Daniel: It's Venice Beach.

Laurel: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She wants,

Daniel: she wants to bang the beach.

Laurel: Bang the beach. All right. Yeah. July 15th, 2025. Bang, bang, the beach.

Daniel: Nailed it.

Laurel: Ah, whoa. We've really snuck the ook. One more apology. I can't believe we did not even mention that. Leonard Bernstein likes to use the bathroom with the door open, which is a classic me move. If you're gonna be my partner, you're eventually going to have many conversations with me. Well, I'm sitting on the toilet . I think it's just because I have no sense of privacy. Whoops, but don't worry. I'll respect your provi. Your provi, provi. I'll respect your privacy, I promise.