This morning. Mm-hmm. I bought a sweatshirt from the internet that says Diet Cunt.

Daniel: Is that your, uh, your new title now that you've lost a bunch of weight?

It's in the font of like diet Coke, but also in true. Sober alcoholic fashion. I have become acquainted with the magic of diet Coke. Like, wow, I understand now. Like, why didn't I do this 13 years ago when I first got sober?

Because shit, man, that stuff tastes good and feels good.

Daniel: I don't know. I can feel it fooling my brain. Like I can feel the shell game of sweetness like going on in my nervous system, and I'm like I know the ball isn't under that cup, but I'm gonna choose it anyway.

Laurel: I don't like the taste of artificial sweeteners and like I'm sensitive to them.

Nichole: Yeah,

Nichole: I mean. Me too, but the high,

Nichole: really, I had a diet Coke like a few months ago when I was in the office because they have Diet Cokes. Mm-hmm. Just like around, and I was like, well, this seems like a treat for myself, I guess. And then I was like, oh, I get it. I drink it with like a little straw, you know, and I'm in the office, so I have my blazer with my shoulder pads on it, and my coworkers are always like, okay, working girl.

Nichole: Like, settle down,

Laurel: simmer down. I think that I consume so much sugar that I don't get the high from. Mm-hmm. the fake stuff. From the fake stuff.

Daniel: Yeah. I don't think it's the sugar that gets Nicole high. I think it's the caffeine, like the form of diet Coke, it's almost like a completely frictionless consumption experience for caffeine. So it's instead of like, instead of like coffee where you, you sip and you're like, hmm. Bitter complex. Um, it's, it's just pure joy. Yeah. It's like, it's like if you could just beam alcohol into yourself,

see this is the, this was the thing when you and I first started dating Daniel, I was like, oh yeah, I don't drink.

And you were like, oh, I really like Italian Bitter L Coors. I was like, I've never goddamn heard of a Maro in my life. Because you know what?

I like vodka. Like a very straightforward, very simple, high proof. Not this whole like complex tasting notes or whatever. Just like, get me what I want.

Daniel: Yeah. , not to give anything away about our big Star Trek theme today, but you, like, you beam the food out, beam the poop out.

Daniel: Nicole's happy. She doesn't wanna actually interact with, with the things that she's putting her in her body. And I can vouch for that.

God.

Oh my God.

Welcome to Poly Amateur. I'm Nicole.

Daniel: I'm Daniel. I'm Laurel. Is that a game of introduction chicken? Yeah, it was, it was thrilling to watch

Today is a very special

Daniel: episode.

Daniel: We can finally let loose the big news that one of our stewards is none other than greatest gen producer. Windy. Pretty mind blown. Mind blown.

Laurel: I, okay. I feel like I'm having like a real stu moment because not just like, not just starstruck by Wendy, like even daring to associate with us in any capacity, but like last night at your birthday party, we had stewards.

Laurel: That I had no other IRL connection with, besides the fact that they listened to the podcast show up. Yeah.

I found them making out in our bedroom.

Laurel: What?

Tell, give us the dets. There were two. There were,

Daniel: were they smelling the sheets?

There was the, the light was off and I, and I turn on the light and I was like, oh, I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry. And they were like, no, no, this is your room. And I was like, yeah. Um, and then they were like, we're stews. And I was like, shut. And then they explained like the, the questions they had submitted and I was like, oh my God was our advice. Okay. They're like, was, yeah. Oh my God. Oh my God. Did we ruin your life?

I'm sorry. Am I gonna have to face the consequences of my actions right now?

Daniel: That's, that's when the unicorn hunter hunters come to the party. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. And we have to,

but it was fucking delightful. Yeah. I was like, I was, I was shocked. And I hope I came across as like playing it cool because like, I, I was just, I, I

Laurel: don't know.

Laurel: I was, I was, yeah. I did not play it cool at all. Daniel was like at the piano jamming. These folks walked in that I didn't know. And then Daniel turns my way and just goes, ews. And I'm like, what?

Daniel: And I make more intense eye contact, more intense eye contact, and I grab your hand and I squeeze it and I wink.

Laurel: And then I was like, wait, your redacted stu?

Laurel: And I was just like, what can we do for you?

Daniel: So there are stews and then there's windy pretty. Yeah. So our first big move in advertising the pod was to do what's called a, uh, jumbotron or a priority one on our favorite Star Trek podcast.

Daniel: And probably like my favorite podcast, that's not us, the Greatest Generation.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: uh, A priority one is where they read our ad on the air

Daniel: it was kind of a gamble that like. Are these people also going to be our people? And yes, they were like, it was incredibly effective. Still our most involved stewards. Yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel: And then a little while later, windy. Pretty legendary producer, also a stubbert, reaches out, recommends a Is this poly for us she's been a coaching us on production skills and stuff and has been a great friend of the pod in the background. And we are so delighted to have her on this episode today. And so delighted to tell the world.

Laurel: Hell yeah.

Laurel: She's coming on to talk to us for a — should we call it like a very special sub-segment We're taking an is this poly moment, but we're putting a trek spin on it

Daniel: and re dubbing it Is Star Trek Polly.



Daniel: So this is one of those moments where we have recorded the meat of the sandwich earlier

before the potatoes of the sandwich. Why are you having potatoes and meat on a sandwich?

Why are you having them together?

Daniel: French fries on a sandwich can be kind of good . Anyways, go on like chips in a sandwich.

Laurel: Chips in a sandwich are good 'cause they're crunchy. Yeah. Chips

Daniel: On A Sandwich is one of my favorite Samuele Jackson films.

Anyhow, why is that the one that gets me?

Daniel: Without further ado, here is our very special prerecorded segment. Still fresh with Windy Pretty is Star Trek Polly Roll Tape.

Daniel: And now we're, pretend like the conversation is just starting now.

Laurel: Ah, how? I don't know what to do.

Nichole: Wendy, I just wanted to say your name like that. Wendy.

Wynde: Hello. Hello. Hi. My gosh, I'm, I'm so glad to be on the show. I've been listening to you all since you did a priority one message on the Greatest Generation. I think it was like last November. Is that sound right? Oh gosh, that does sound right. Yeah. Yeah.

Wynde: 'cause I'm tracking

Daniel: the, the date when we can do another one.

Wynde: You were a little baby pod back then. We were just little guys. Yeah, just little guys.

Daniel: Yeah. I feel like our listenership wasn't even as big as our Poly Q.

Laurel: That's probably true.

Wynde: Little did we go, but then you got, you got the greatest gen bump, so.

Daniel: Still riding high from the, uh, greatest gen bump.

Laurel: Okay.

Wynde: So yeah, after you guys did the priority one message, I, you know, in my own poly journey, I was like, Ooh, this sounds like fun. Let me look, let me give it a listen.

Wynde: And I just, I thought it was a really cute show and I really like what you guys do. Aw. I think it's very different than other shows that are out there talking about this type of thing. So I appreciate the unique take and the, the comedy and the, the fun production and all of those things.

Wynde: It's, um, it's definitely my speed.

Thank you. Yeah, thank you. That's really kind of you to say.

Daniel: And even before we, , quote unquote, Matt, , you were an influence on us indirectly.

Daniel: The specific flavor of, , producer as third character. Mm-hmm. That, , is represented on Greatest Jen like that actually influenced us a lot. And then since we've met you, you have been so gracious to take me under your producer Lee Wing and teach me how to not make it sound like we're in tin cans.

Daniel: And it has been invaluable and I am so thankful.

Wynde: Well, my techniques looking real good over there. Just have to say

Daniel: thank

Wynde: you.

Nichole: So, Wendy, do you wanna tell us a little bit about your poly journey, if you're open to that?

Wynde: Yeah, sure. Um, I have really had a history in my life over the years of interest and experimentation with non-traditional relationship styles. And I think even more than that, like kind of an allergic reaction to. Monogamy and kind of relationship escalator stuff, like the relationship escalator kind of blew my mind up because I was like, oh, this is that thing I've been trying desperately to jump off of in every relationship that I've been in.

Wynde: Oh, got it. Okay. It's all making sense now. So yeah, I've, I've definitely had my experiences with, with non-traditional relationships throughout my adult life, but I think only in the last two, three years have I really gotten studious about the practice of polyamory and about really a lot of personal responsibilities.

Wynde: So right now I'm kind of living a, a solo poly existence, kind of having my own space and maintaining different really different types of relationships with different people in my life, um, which has been amazing. I was thinking back the other day to like. Three years ago when I was in a perfectly amazing relationship and feeling unsatisfied and feeling like there's got to be a different way of doing this that will make me appreciate a beautiful and good relationship with someone that I care about and love.

Wynde: And like so many experiences over the last two years have really been fulfilling for me in that sense and like able to explore queer relationships and able to explore kink relationships and different things with different partnerships in my life. So, so yeah, I'm pretty new at it.

Wynde: I really am a poly amateur. I think I'm about two years in to the actual kind of more intellectual, let's say. Process of, of practicing polyamory.

Daniel: So the reason why you like the podcast is 'cause you don't know any better yet.

Wynde: That's it. That must be it.

Yeah.

Daniel: You know, we say variety show for people who love variety. It's not just sexual variety.

Daniel: , it's about, , the variety of connections to be able to exist in different modes mm-hmm. With different people.

Wynde: Yeah. It's very internal. Like, it's not about the differences of the other people per se. It's about how I feel fulfilled by inhabiting different aspects of myself with different people.

Wynde: And I think that's what was missing in that monogamous relationship that was so perfectly good. It should have been perfect. You know, I didn't feel fully realized.

Nichole: Mm. What I love about polyamory is like, I come home from a date with somebody that I really, really enjoyed, and I look at Daniel and I'm like, God, I love you so much. Mm-hmm. Because I'm, I'm so in this body, and experiencing this joy with someone else, and I get to bring that joy home to you. Mm-hmm.

Wynde: Absolutely.

Laurel: Something that, like Esther Perel brings up a lot when she talks about like cheating in relationships, it's not so much about.

Laurel: That other person, as much as it is about like this renewed self-discovery that happens, it's about like how that person reflects you back to you. Mm-hmm. You were saying that Wendy, having these other relationships and that making you more of like a whole person because you can see different parts of yourself, reflected and like shining and, , thriving in those different contexts.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. And like, Nicole, how you can like,, bring that back to your relationship with Daniel. 'cause when you feel more whole and full, you get to like show up as a whole full person. Mm-hmm. For your other partners.

Wynde: It's a beautiful thing. Good point,

Daniel: So now, , you , Windy, had , , the wonderful idea to sync up our Star Trek, enterprise coverage, , with a poly ish episode of Star Trek Enterprise.

Daniel: The greatest gen is, covering like one day before this drops. . Um, is it

Polly? Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. It's mostly uncomfortable.

Daniel: Uh, so yeah, we're, our cycles are now aligned. Uhhuh.

Wynde: Perfect. Perfect. Oh God,

Laurel: I'm sorry. I dunno why I'm like,

yes.

Laurel: I dunno why. I'm just like delighted by the idea of coinciding period references across

podcasts. Across podcasts.

Wynde: Yeah. Hey, un, like a very uncomfortable plight has befall both shows at the same time. Yeah. Which is watching this episode.

Laurel: Yeah,

Wynde: that is true. It's

Laurel: so

Wynde: true.

Daniel: So as you recall, Nicole is the, the one person who remembers what actually like happened in the episode.

Daniel: Sure.

Wynde: I have a very embarrassing secret about this episode and something I wanna share with you guys. Yeah. Oh my

God, please. Okay. Because

Wynde: embarrassment is a little bit, for those who don't know the podcast that I work on, embarrassment is a bit of the brand. Yeah. Um, I went into my storage. And pulled out a college paper, gender studies paper that I wrote.

Wynde: It's called Alien Gender in the Star Trek universe. Oh my God. And there is a little section on the progenitor, um, and some other, you know, academic takeaways. So I'm just, I might wanna sprinkle those in. Yeah. Pepper is some fucking getting, of course, everybody needs a little gender studies paper in their life.

Wynde: I, yes. Oh, fuck yes.

If there's anything I love, it is. It is the blending together of pop culture and academics. Mm-hmm. And a paper, which is like, so just like thesis. Supporting point. Supporting point. Mm-hmm. Supporting point closure.

It's gorgeous. Ugh.

Laurel: So into this. Okay. I didn't know Nicole loved a paper so much.

Laurel: I do.

Daniel: She tries to pull most conversations into that format.

Laurel: That's true actually. Yeah. And

Daniel: furthermore,

Laurel: yeah.

Daniel: In conclusion,

Laurel: just summarize.

Wynde: Alright, so have you all, did you remember this episode? Like was it fresh in your mind or?

Laurel: I remembered it 'cause I didn't, watch Enterprise that long ago and I was like my first run through of Enterprise ' but we actually watched it the other night as like a refresher.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: It made me so uncomfortable. Like I haven't been this uncomfortable watching any kind of media since when I was a kid watching three's company episodes.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Wynde: Like theres levels to the discomfort too, right? Yeah. There's uncomfortableness on every level of it. It's like, whoa, how could this be that bad?

Nichole: So should we start with

Daniel: what the episode is? The episode is, we're gonna be discussing season two, episode 22 of Star Trek Enterprise, progenitor

Nichole: Are we only talking about the poly part of this? like, we don't have to go into like the cheese sniffing and shit, right?

Daniel: That was the most poly part of it, honestly.

Daniel: Please.

Wynde: Yeah. Her saying that they always fuck before they go out on dates. Yeah. That was very sex positive. You know, at least

Daniel: that's, it's also really like good for the digestion, you know? Like, you fuck, first everybody knows. Everybody knows that. Yeah. That's

actually, yeah. That's what we do. Yeah.

Daniel: , that's Dan Savage to greatest gen, to us, to the world. Fuck first. Mm-hmm.

Wynde: You're welcome. You're welcome.

Alright. Okay, the enterprise is studying a star that is about to go supernova and they notice an alien ship that's like closer to the, to the star and they're like, holy fuck.

How does that alien ship get so close? They make contact and this species is called the Ian. And so the captain and a few of his crew members come aboard Enterprise, and the crews meet,

Laurel: They're also the friendliest first contact in all of Star Trek. I feel like they're so open and excited and willing to share their technology.

Daniel: And they're also doing this friendly reflective thing to the crew. They're like, complimenting them on their spirit of exploration and their pilot skills. Yeah. Like, like they're just like, you know, it's a love bomb. Yeah, totally.

Daniel: Yeah.

So the crew comes aboard enterprise and they start to mingle each of the crews and they're in the, what is that? The dining hall Mess hall?

Nichole: So Trip Tucker meets a couple, a Sian couple. They are sitting with another, being at their table, another person,

Nichole: And they don't introduce this being, um, to trip and trip's asking like, oh, who's this?

Nichole: so in like their alien race, they need a third gender in order to procreate.

Daniel: And in the episode it's explained by our favorite character, Dr. Flocks.

Yeah.

Clip: So you're saying that this man or woman or whatever is a third sex. That's exactly what I'm saying. And she. It is part of the impregnation process.

Clip: Precisely. In this case, I imagine the progenitor provides an enzyme which facilitates conception. What do you mean by provides? Well, at first the female has to No, no, no, no, no. Don't tell me. I don't think I wanna know.

Clip: Oh, well.

Clip: I have pictures.

Daniel: Fluxes into it.

Daniel: Yeah,

Laurel: it totally is

Daniel: like, yet again. Trip is the completely oblivious, person stumbling into sexual and gender dynamics, which he does not understand at all. And flocks is, , the wise, playful, , overly personal doctor with pictures,

Nichole: but also curious.

Nichole: And f Flox has always been that way. That's just , his character and trip is always the person who's like not curious. He is, he is myopic in his view of like, this is the way things are, this is the way it should be, and I'm going to be the person to fix it.

Daniel: Basically, um, let's create a vaguely poly scenario and drop Florida man in, see what happens.

Nichole: So Trip decides that the co janitor is going to be his charity case,

Clip: They treat her like a pet, kept in her room, not taught to read or write, no name.

Clip: This is a question of human rights. They're not human.

Daniel: Is this like Star Trek blindside?

Daniel: Like I kept hearing the lines in more of the, the voice of , , very special episodes from mm-hmm. The eighties or nineties. Where, where it's like

Daniel: she has a rat to learn to read. God.

Nichole: so Trip goes over and like, is is in the engineering room with the chief engineer and is like. I'd really like to see your quarters 'cause my quarters are small and maybe the captain will give me bigger quarters if he, it was the fucking flimsiest lie I've ever heard so fucking weird.

Wynde: I can't believe your Florida accent.

Wynde: It's too good not to comment on.

Wynde: I hope when you make that trip to Florida you bust out that accent. Yeah. Reid,

Daniel: so did you also feel like there was something slightly, , to make another greatest gen reference, um, pervy in his like intense interest like, hey, maybe I can come over to your, uh, apartment later and see your, um. S sperm digester,

Laurel: like, would, would he have cared so much if the co janitor didn't present as female to him?

Mm. Because he

Laurel: immediately, the question he immediately genders. Mm-hmm.

Wynde: The pronouns are her, are fucked throughout The whole episode. Yep. Yes. Terrible. We don't even know. And everybody does it wrong. Definitely.

Laurel: I don't think that it actually chooses a gender.

Laurel: It chooses a name. Mm-hmm. At some point. It's

Daniel: gender

Laurel: is

Daniel: trip tucker.

Laurel: Yeah. Essentially. It's like, I wanna be trip now.

Wynde: But the other part of that, you brought up how the gender presents, but also like it, the person read to me as like quite young as well, and that felt pervy a little bit.

Wynde: Mm-hmm. Yeah. In terms of his interest. Yeah,

Nichole: definitely.

Laurel: Oh. They also, they also mentioned that progenitors only make up 3% of the population. Mm-hmm. And so , that they are shared between couples trying to procreate. They just facilitate impregnation and, and then they can move on to a different couple and help.

Daniel: the fact that they have an enzyme. Made me think that like they secrete like a saliva or something. Like are they a, are they like a fluffer?

Laurel: You know what's incredible is that these people can fly into the fucking corona of a star, but they can't figure out how to reproduce this enzyme.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: So they're very rare. You could almost say like, um, you know, a unicorn.

Oh,

Daniel: wow.

Wow.

Daniel: Huh. Interesting. Okay, so this is my only possible Polly take on this episode. Are you,

Nichole: we're not there through the episode yet, but go on. I'm not gonna say

Daniel: whether it's Polly or not.

Daniel: N Nicole's getting nervous 'cause it's deviating from the, uh, the thesis.

Laurel: Yeah. We, we haven't, we haven't gotten, yeah.

Wynde: From the thesis to our support points yet. Well, wasn't there was an outline. We just, you know, gotta Yeah. Get back to the outline.

Daniel: Yeah. So the only way that I could possibly read this as poly is if, , , the Ians are basically a alien race of unicorn hunters in this intensely hierarchical poly situation.

Daniel: And then Trip Tucker is trying to hierarchical, it's their, their, um, their poly situation. I'm not saying I believe this thesis, I'm playing the devil's advocate. Oh, you know.

Nichole: All right. So Trip gets himself invited over for dinner. , somehow and, um, and he's eating the very fragrant food that they serve him. And he's like, mm, hey, so hey. Uh, so that coach editor that you have, what's that about? Where, where is it?

Clip: Will your progenitor be joining us? It rarely eats more than one meal a day. Too bad. I was hoping to say hello.

Clip: Why would you want to do that? Commander Tucker is very curious about our reproductive process. I'll see if it's awake.

Nichole: Um, so it's fucking weirdo. Um, again, oddly obsessed, , Um, after somehow bringing some DNA or something back to Dr. Flocks and flocks, runs a diagnostic and figures out that the progenitor is as intelligent as the other genders.

Nichole: so trip like sneaks away this other time that he's on the ship back to the quarters and meets with the progenitor.

Clip: They're not here. I came to see you. Why? I brought you this. I'll teach you how to read.

Nichole: They learn to read very quickly.

Nichole: Yeah. And. A trip is like, . You're reading this book and it's about majestic mountains. What if you saw the mountains in real laugh and the Coit is like, oh, I would never be able to do that.

Nichole: I'm a progenitor. This is my role. Um, and somehow the topic of names comes up and the progenitor decides that their name is trip and trip's. Like, well, my real name is Charles, and they say, then my name is Charles, and the progenitor identifies as Charles. Yeah.

Laurel: This is just a imprinting situation. Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Trip has just gotten this alien co janitor to imprint upon him.

Daniel: Yeah, it almost was like a born sexy yesterday thing, but the co-editor is not really sexy. It's just like born pliable yesterday. Mm-hmm. You know, if what you're attracted to is the ability to just, , fill somebody's empty mind with all of the, , old sci-fi movies that you like.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So at one point, trip shows Charles, , the day the Earth stood still, of all the things to show. I don't know that I would show an alien, a sci-fi movie.

Laurel: Yeah. Because I'm

Nichole: like, show him something that's like of Earth. You know, Western would've been great. True grit. That would've been a great choice,

Nichole: the original.

Wynde: Yeah, of course.

Daniel: Wendy, have we touched on any of your thesis points yet?

Wynde: Ooh. Um, let's see. Let me, yeah. Browse, consult my notes. We're not, we're not smart enough

for that. Okay. So this is

Wynde: how, how, how long ago I went to, to college. Although academics have barely had time to comment on the most recent Star Trek series enterprise, it's worth noting that writers for that show have imagined an alien race with three genders, a male, a female, and a progenitor. This episode creates a metaphor for an oppressed third sex, but fails to resolve the plot happily. Nice.

Daniel: True. Yes, this is true. It's, um, I like the presumption, Wendy, that academics will, as soon as they get a chance, address this most recent episode of Star Trek Enterprise.

Daniel: They did,

Laurel: Wendy did. Yeah. This is true. Yeah, it was happening as an academic while she was writing it.

Nichole: Yeah. Wow. I was right there. I was right there. Ready to go.

Nichole: Okay, so. Trip convinces Charles to ask or talk to Charles's keepers. Keep Yeah. I don't, I don't know what they would be. 'cause it's not like they're, they're unicorn hunters. Um, they're assigned couple about expanding their horizons, right?

Daniel: I love how a lot of this stuff happens off camera. Oh yeah. We just get the news that like trip is no longer welcome on the alien ship. Yeah.

Nichole: You got banned. Yep. And then Charles comes over to enterprise and basically asks for asylum on enterprise

Clip: They don't want to help me. They don't want me to climb mountains.

Clip: I want to stay here please.

Nichole: and this causes a little bit of strife with Archer. He's like, I can't deny somebody asylum. And

the Sian Captain Dreek and the couple are like, but you don't understand our culture.

The couple expressed that like, we've waited so long to procreate and. We don't know the next time that a progenitor will be assigned to us, so on and so forth.

Daniel: They've been on field for so long, they just found their fucking first unicorn.

Laurel: You can't take it away now.

Daniel: You can't tell them that they have agency. Yeah.

Wynde: Maybe progenitors are assigned through like a weird dating app system on their planet.

Laurel: I I, I have to imagine that's the only way it works. But who would be swiping?

Nichole: Who would be doing the assigning? It's a bureaucrat.

Nichole: The couple.

Wynde: Oh, it's gotta be this, the, the unicorn hunters are, are in control in this society.

Daniel: Okay. Should we start an exclusively unicorn hunting dating site called Coach janitor?

Laurel: So yucky. So yucky.

Daniel: And this is how our, our secret plan to like mine the best unicorn hunter profiles for unicorn. Yeah. We do it for content.

Laurel: Oh my God. That's dark Daniel. No, I always imagine that like there was some kind of office or agency of code janitor assignment.

Wynde: The couple Did make it sound like, like you said, they'd been waiting forever and maybe they had to kind of like basically sell themselves.

Wynde: Yeah. Yeah. Sell their, sell their desire to reproduce and.

Laurel: Yeah, like an adoption thing almost. Except you're like mm-hmm. Picking a fertility agent. Fertility pet, fertility

pet. Oh, no, no.

Daniel: Is field and like our dating apps and our devices, are they robotic progenitors?

Is it the only way that we ever meet anybody?

Daniel: Or, or end up, you know, you know, unless you log on, there's not much of a chance of finding somebody to knock up, so,

oh my God.

Laurel: Okay. Are you

an ecstasy at this idea? I am. My, I, I just wanna get through. This episode summary,

Wynde: this terrible, terrible plot.

Yeah. Continue. Like, I don't have to think about apps being co janitors. Like I just, I don't wanna have that thought in my head. This is how I felt

Daniel: watching the episode. I was squirming.

Daniel: You guys were there. You were? Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: It sucked. Physically uncomfortable. It's really bad. Okay. So Charles asks for asylum and Archer is conflicted and then Charles has to go back to the Ian ship, and then Archer gets word calls trip into his ready room.

And tells him,

Clip: the Sian Progenitor died. What, how suicide trip

and just so you know, this is all your fault trip and you should feel real bad about it.

Uh, and Tripp, does question mark feel bad about it? I think, I don't know. I think he

Laurel: does. I think he readily accepts blame for it. Mm-hmm.

Wynde: So many questions. Yeah. Like what the writers were trying to do, like how they thought we would feel. Like who do we side with? What is this even a metaphor for? You know what I mean? Yeah. Like what do we, what is this episode? It's not Polly, I don't think, but like, what is it? We dunno.

Daniel: I mean, I think that we are supposed to, , the end agree with Archer, that.

Daniel: Trip has, overstepped that trip, has taken his opinions and, enforced them on a very innocent member of another species and that he's been a complete moron for every single moment of this episode.

Daniel: But the whole problem is no shit. I had no moment where I thought that like. Ooh, what trip's doing might be a good idea.

Laurel: When Wendy's got their paper open. Yeah. Yeah. Let's see.

Wynde: academia has used Star Trek to comment on and draw conclusions about societal morays, and Star Trek itself has used aliens to explore those same morays regarding gender and sexuality. I. Academics generally acknowledge the sometimes vain attempts to create progressive metaphors around gender and sexuality.

Wynde: But many also criticize the humanization of most featured aliens through the recurring and unique instances of gender that is alien to Starfleet. Star Trek has broadened viewer conceptions about gender and sexuality and allowed for new conceptions of gender via alien bodies. However, in conclusion,

Daniel: Nicole just had just a, a little tiny like orgasm.

Daniel: Oh, you know it,

Wynde: but yeah, it's like, it's exploring this idea, right? But it's failing to like. Make its point effectively, right? they open these interesting questions, but then they fail to bring home a point that's actually progressive and positive.

Laurel: One of the things I like about Star Trek is that they continually bring up like the moral quandary of, exploration versus, like cultural imperialism.

Laurel: Hmm. Of do we save these people or do we let them be, and like, Tripp never asks that question in this episode.

Laurel: He just jumps to like, , I am morally righteous. I must save this person

Wynde: a great point that they make is that you don't know our culture where we, the viewer also don't understand their culture. Mm-hmm. And that leaves it ambiguous in a way that's uncomfortable. Like if we knew more about how the progenitors are treated on their world or like we saw how other progenitors felt, or you know, like had any kind of extra context about this moral dilemma, I feel like we would have a more clear sense of where we fall on it.

Daniel: I, I love the note of like, we haven't met any of the other co janitors, like, and it got me thinking like, what if this is just a dim co-editor and all the rest of them are kind of normal, you know, like this one is just, oh yeah, I've never read before.

Laurel: The rest of them do have like really full awful lives.

Wynde: I think the only hint though, that the script offers us in terms of like how they're treated is at one point when the Coit editor is getting the tour around enterprise from trip. Um, it's has aligned something like, I could be punished for this,

Laurel: yes. And yeah,

Wynde: that's all we know that they don't have their own freedom of movement and that they might be punished, although we don't know how or to what extent or anything like that. So that's like the only clue Right. That we have that they are owned and not free. So this is way more like sexual slavery kind of metaphor Yeah.

Wynde: Than any kind of gender identity metaphor. I mean, is that how you see it as well? Like, I don't think this is about gender at all. And it's certainly not about polyamory. No,

Laurel: they definitely don't love the progenitor.

Daniel: All right. Is this poly?

Laurel: I think your unicorn hunter interpretation is the most poly generous interpretation. Mm-hmm. That could be given to it.

Daniel: Alright. In that case, if we can all assume that we are a no on the, is this poly?

Yeah.

Daniel: Shall we rate them as unicorn hunters?



Daniel: so on the show we rate unicorn hunters in three categories. One Arbitrary rules. Two. Self aggrandizement.

Hmm.

Daniel: Three, would we unicorn for it that we should

Laurel: see? This is the hard part. Like are are the rules that we assume are imposed on Charles, , imposed by this couple? Like, do we have to assume or the culture or, yeah,

And again, Charles was assigned. Yeah. Like Charles was assigned to them.

Daniel: Assigned unicorn at birth.

Yeah.

Daniel: Wendy, what do you think arbitrary rules

Wynde: They have their society's rules, I think, deeply in place within the confines of their little reproductive situation.

Wynde: In other words, the, the co-editor doesn't have freedom of movement, things like that, that's controlled by them, I think. And, and they're the ones who got angry about, you know

Laurel: Yeah.

Wynde: The target. They do, they

Laurel: do choose to enforce it.

Wynde: Yeah.

Laurel: Yes, they do.

Daniel: Yeah. I'm gonna give them a nine, only, not 10, because they've inherited these rules. Mm-hmm. But you know, if your unicorn is pretty much a, , sex slave that like lives in a kennel in the next room,

Laurel: can, but can we extrapolate from this and say that most of the unicorn hunters were encountering or also.

Laurel: Practicing cultural rules or things that seem culturally acceptable. Yeah.

Yeah,

Laurel: and so we can't rank anybody as a 10 unless they say, I know this is ethically bad and wrong, and I've examined this, but still you can't have a personality.

Wynde: Maybe there's a certain couple out there on Visia Prime or whatever who. Have a deep respect for the personal autonomy of the co genitor that they're with. And they, they are a refuge for the period of time where that co genitor is with them. You know, you never know.

Laurel: Yeah. Does Word does word travel amongst the progenitors and they're like, oh, I hope I get with Eric and Sue like they seem Rack and Sue.

Wynde: They're totally non-hierarchical. Yeah. Way they practice. So

Laurel: they let me read,

Wynde: they took me mountain climbing. Have you guys ever seen a fucking mountain?

Laurel: Shit's rad.

Daniel: How would we rate them on self-aggrandizement?

They don't have a boat that we know of.

Laurel: Starship. That's not their Starship ship. Not a boat. He's just engineer on the Starship.

Laurel: I mean overall, like it's hard to say a ton about this specific couple, but overall this species , for being so far advanced beyond the humans they seem to have a lot of humility. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I

Daniel: yeah. I think they're not very self-aggrandizing.

Wynde: Yeah. On the other hand though, they do, they have this air about them that's like entitled, right? Like, we've been waiting for this. Yes. We deserve this kind of thing. So not exactly self-aggrandizement, but maybe entitlement or a, a selfishness that doesn't recognize the impact.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely doesn't, yeah. Recognize Yeah. The human, the humanity

Daniel: or the humidity

Laurel: or the humidity of Charles, Charles is so fucking humid. And that's, that's what's drawing trip in trip is like, your atmosphere is familiar to me. Oh God.

Daniel: My gender is clammy.

Daniel: But Wendy, Would you give him a one, one to 10 supper aggrandizement?

Laurel: Maybe like a seven.

Daniel: Okay. Okay. Yeah. All right. Kind of high, that sense

Laurel: of entitlement, really.

Daniel: Yeah,

Laurel: that's a good point. Yeah.

Daniel: Um, and finally, would we co genitor for them?

Laurel: I mean, if it's a very short time period, and even if they're not aware that it's like a weird kink thing, but I'm like, yeah, put me in your cage ,

Wynde: I got your enzymes

right

Wynde: here.

See, they keep talking about enzymes and like, all I'm imagining is that the couple are. You know, doing the thing, they're banging it out and I'm just spitting on them, like talk to the original

and that's all my contribution is. I'm like, why do they have to keep 'em around so long? Why do they have to, like, why can't these people just

Wynde: honestly, we want more details, is what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: I'm just saying like, it might not be that long of a process.

Laurel: Unless it's like, we keep trying until. Yes. until one of us is pregnant.

Laurel: I don't know who gets pregnant in this.

Nichole: You make it

Daniel: sound so interminable like. We just keep trying.

Daniel: We're going to, we're gonna just keep going until one of us is pregnant.

Nichole: I had a roommate a very long time ago. Oh no. Who? We get bored during sex and start to practice. American sign language behind the person's back. She's like, well, I, I could use this time productively. Multitasking. Okay. Oh my God.

Laurel: Oh my God. Did any of her partners ever like, like what are you doing back there?

Nichole: It was college guys. Were just happy to be there. Thank you for having me.

Daniel: He just thought it was like a, like, like a weird orgasm. Spasm. Just hands are

Laurel: It's crazy, man. She's so into it.

Daniel: Her hands. Her hands were going everywhere

Wynde: So Laurel was, was that a Yes to wood unicorn? It's a hard, maybe just for

Laurel: the lulls.

Laurel: I mean, they're uh, they're not an unattractive Sian couple.

Daniel: No. They're hot

Laurel: and yeah. You know, maybe it's a weekend bit. I don't wanna hang out with them for three months. Like, that's too much.

Wynde: I think my curiosity would get the better of me and I would have to know what's going on.

Daniel: But assuming Nicole's thesis is correct and I'm just there to spit and you're just there to spit on their junk, are you, is it still, is it still a Yes.

Laurel: You know, I don't like spit very much. In my head I'm like, is that a, a turning of the power dynamics where I'm just like, yeah, take that. You filthy. Sian, how dare you keep me in a cage like this? I spit on your genitals.

Wynde: It's what I think of you. Yeah,

what think of you.

Wynde: And so it's like degradation play is what you're saying with that. Oh yeah. Exactly. That's a good way to approach it.

Daniel: You get to say it in a Python French accent. I spit on your genital to the,

Wynde: oh my God. Honestly, they deserve it. They need to hear from you. Yeah. On this topic.

Laurel: What happens if you do fall in love with your progenitor though?

Wynde: Oh, I wanna know. Right. And that's like an alternate, like there were so many alternate endings that could have been in this episode, like the couple realizes and they're like, oh shit, this is a real person. And you know, or Right. Or the co janitor stays on enterprise and what does that look like?

Wynde: I almost wish there was a different ending to this, you know? Yes. Yeah.

Laurel: This is a very bleak. Unsatisfactory ending

Daniel: I feel like the most satisfying part of this episode was like trip getting chewed out at the end, just.

Daniel: Trip slapped I wanted to like give trip a dressing down the entire episode. Yeah.

Wynde: I kind of had the opposite reaction, to be honest. I didn't think trip was right to do what he did necessarily.

Wynde: But to me, the person who looked the most like an asshole was Archer in this episode. I hated him. I hated his reaction. I hated how he was self-righteous when he himself has screwed up, first contacts left and right.

Wynde: Mm-hmm. Um, I don't know, like what do we think? Do you think there's a reason to be concerned about the way that the progenitors are treated in the society?

Wynde: Like what, what do we think about that?

Laurel: There's so little information you just don't know. But it would definitely give me pause if there's a whole ass being that seems to be so severely oppressed, you're like, why? What's going on there?

Laurel: But this is why I think this episode might actually be a deeply intelligent take on American neoliberalism.

Laurel: Yeah. Uhhuh, tell me more.

Wynde: How are you gonna support this thesis, Laurel,

Laurel: gimme your

Wynde: supporting points

and your conclusion.

Laurel: So we have, Tripp who I think the audience is supposed to identify as having a morally superior take on the situation in that we can see that this progenitor is not being treated the way that we like as outsiders would look in and want to be treated.

Laurel: In this case we're imposing this sense of equity and justice that like we're we prize so we see something that on the surface seems to not live up to our morality.

Yeah.

Laurel: And we immediately have to assimilate it.

Laurel: But not challenge the actual mechanisms of our society. You can do these small acts that can make you feel morally superior while upholding the status quo without looking at the impacts on a greater society.

That was a good conclusion.

Daniel: A plus. I really appreciated that.

Wynde: but I do like that the, the episode left us feeling multiple ways about it. I think that there is something to be said about the fact that they have written something so disturbing.

Yeah. Unclear.

Wynde: It like opens this beautiful question and then resolves it in such an unsatisfactory way and, and never giving us this like positive.

Wynde: Resolution of like progressive values that we would want to see as a Star Trek fandom. You know, it's like measure of a man if data killed himself at the end, you know what I mean? It's like what, this is a totally different type of point you're trying to make, you know? Yeah. But I

Nichole: think, so I, I, I wanna go back to your paper, um, because, not just because it gets me off, but because like I'm watching it in the context of 2025, right?

Nichole: What was your take on it? Watching it and writing that paper close to when it actually premiered?

Wynde: I thought sexual slavery, I thought slavery. Mm-hmm. Was the metaphor, or like, seriously oppressed minority within a society that, I guess star fleet's not willing to help or intervene in.

Wynde: Mm-hmm. That was kind of like my takeaway, which is not a great look, like, bit gross. Yeah. But like, oh, we see this happening and we are not gonna ask any more questions.

Wynde: And in, and not even like, like Archer at the end in that final hail with Visian captain is really still trying to be buds and mm-hmm. Knowing everything that he knows, he's like, wants to save this relationship in, in a way that's a bit, I don't know, to me feels questionable.

Daniel: Looking at what was actually like happening in the world in the news. Like what you just said about sexual slavery, Wendy made me think about whether or not this being so close to nine-eleven and the Iraq war, I wonder if there were some elements about the tension between the West and Orthodox Islam the way that women are treated in some of the more, orthodox, Islamic cultures, and the West's presumption of moral superiority that we might know better mm-hmm. Than those cultures. Okay. This

Laurel: just extends my metaphor though.

Laurel: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because Archer is bush and like Republican, Right-Leaning ideology it is always the interest of capital.

Laurel: And then. Trip is sort of like the liberal counterpart to that. That is like

justice. Yeah. Yeah. Justice.

Laurel: Justice. Regardless of the broader context of this.

Well it also reminds me of, the very surface level, presentational.

Uh, activism like this immediately makes me think of Sex in the City, two Sex in the city. Two, when I think they go to Abu Dhabi and like, you know, there are women in Burkas. Okay. Who are there? Yeah. And the four women of sex in the city. Like somehow get into a room with all of them and then they all start taking off their, like the women start taking off their burkas

and then they literally sing at karaoke. I Am Woman Hear Me War roar. Like, it is, it is Mind bot. 'cause it's these four white women going into a culture and like deciding that they know better. This is what

Laurel: liberation looks to me. And if you dress up like liberation, I've liberated you and Good job. Me. Great. Yeah. Good job.

Me.

Daniel: This episode would've been so much better if it ended with a rousing karaoke sing along.

Wynde: I always sing along little harmonies to your segment intros. Aw. What I do?

Wynde: Yeah. What I do. They're so cute. Aw.

Daniel: If, if I, if I send you the, the, the raw files, will you overdub. I'll do some harmonies for you for sure.

Wynde: I love to hear, I need to hear this. Oh my God. Oh my God. Okay. That'll be the after the after. Um, well, okay.

Daniel: Nicole. Nicole had, uh, had her little orgasm at the thesis. I just, I just had mine at the, uh, over dubbed Harmony.

Wynde: Wow.

Daniel: Wendy. Wendy. Wendy? Yes. Thank you so much. Yeah. For coming on the show.

Wynde: Yeah, absolutely.

Wynde: And thank you guys for your lovely pod. I, I enjoy it. I know a lot of other people enjoy it. So Amazing work and keep it up.

Laurel: Thank you. Thank you for helping us make it better.

Daniel: Oh yeah, my

Laurel: pleasure. Yeah,

Daniel: We not only got the greatest Jen bump, we got the windy.

Daniel: Pretty shine.

Laurel: Ooh. The windy spit shine. We're still

Wynde: talking about enzymes. It's like a little bit of windy enzyme. Yeah. Yes.

Oh my God.

Daniel: Thank you for, thank you for coing our podcast.

Laurel: I hope we haven't made you feel too oppressed.

Wynde: Definitely not.

Laurel: No one else answered if they would unicorn for these people though.

Laurel: No, I, I said I'm curious, so I would Oh, that's right. You did. Wendy did show up. Daniel has been coy. Um.

Laurel: Yes.

Wynde: Ooh. You already said they were hot.

We need that.

Laurel: That's all Daniel needs to know.

Daniel: Mine is conditional. In that, uh, Nicole's thesis is incorrect. I need a little bit more than, than spitting. I need to be spit on too. We need,

Laurel: they like you, you spit, they finish and then they just like get up and go shower and you're like, guys,