Nichole: I am just telling you guys this. I don't know that I want this in the podcast. I was like, well, can I at least trade you for it? All I have are semi nudes and Anne Margaret movie recommendations,

so he took me up on the semi nudes. Nice, nice.

Daniel: Po Canose dose.

Nichole: I don't know that anybody has the interest that I have in Ann. Margaret. Ann. Margaret does. She does, yes. Yeah, she does. She's probably as concerned with her as I am.

Daniel: one of the pole dancers that we saw in your poll showcase the other night.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: like it was a kind of a sock themed burlesque thing. What?

Laurel: Like imagine like thigh high, like knee high, thigh high socks. Yeah. And then like in like a burlesque performance, you know how you sort of like tease taking off. So throughout the performance, they're like teasing, taking the socks down off the leg.

And then there's, portions where they're like spinning and the socks are like dangling off their feet while they spin. But then also holding onto like. The toes of the socks. So like it's still on their feet, but then they're holding onto the ends of the socks and like making cool, like shapes. Mm-hmm.

And stuff. Mm-hmm.

And then like in a good burlesque moment, remove their top and then they unroll like long socks unroll from their breasts. And I think it reminded me of were they striped? I think they were black and white striped. And all I could think of was the scene in Wizard of Oz where the, , wicked witch of the east,

the shoes are taken off and they just like roll in.

Daniel: I mean, honestly, that's what gave me my foot fetish.

Laurel: That's where it all began. Yeah. That was a really great performance though.

Daniel: And. There was just a, a pun that occurred to me at that moment and it almost gave me like a sense of, Tourette's syndrome.

Like I was this close from just like, standing up and just yelling it. I was just gonna be like, stand up and be like, octopus.

Laurel: You should have,

Nichole: I am shocked that there is not a store in Portland called Octopus, considering how many fucking stores we have that are dedicated to socks.

Daniel: and considering how people love octopuses these days,

Laurel: what other sock stores are there?

Nichole: Sock Dreams.

Laurel: Did it close though? What? There was, well there at least was a brick and mortar on Mississippi and it's not there anymore. I

Nichole: think they might have just moved either way.

Sock dedicated store underwear. . Dedicated stores too? places that sell one thing and pretty much one only. There's an underwear

Laurel: store on Williams.

Nichole: Yeah, it's fluid Gender underwear. Store fluid underwear.

Daniel: I don't know if I want those two words. Kind of mixed.

Nichole: Mm, fluid and gender. What are you? Daniel's got MAGA fluid underwear, water bra.

Daniel: What? Water bra?

Nichole: Yeah. That's fluid underwear. What a bra. A water bra.

Daniel: You know, a water, a water bra? No, I, I mean, please, please explain this to me. You've never heard of this? No. Uh, Laurel is, is looking at me like, I wanna pretend they know what it is.

Hey,

Nichole: what? Okay. In the nineties, Victoria Seeker came out with a water bra, right? That like, was like padding, you know? Um, but it was like liquid. It was like, it just looks more natural because it was

Daniel: like, I feel like this is in the Nike era because it's like, we just have to fill everything with, with something.

Everything's gotta be inflated and puffed up. We got air in the shoes. Now let's put gel in the shoes. Let's put fucking. Water in the bra.

Laurel: I did have a Victoria's Secret pushup bra that had like gel? Yes. Like a gel insert. Is that what that is or is that different?

Nichole: now I'm really concerned that this wasn't actually a thing that I just, it was a fever dream that I had, but like, I swear to God in the nineties it was like a big thing.

Water bra near me.

Daniel: It's right behind you. Schl, schl, SCHL, schl.

Nichole: or they could leak.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Like you're just in math class and suddenly there's like a little, or it's

Daniel: like a camel pack and if you get thirsty you can just deflate one of your tits.

Nichole: Yeah. Did I make this up?

Laurel: No. There, like, I guess water bra is a brand name.

What? So maybe like Victoria's Secret used water bra technology or whatever. But it is like the original water bra with the little like registered whoa symbol. Is a revolutionary padded bra that achieves natural shape and added cleavage using a body oil and water mixture. Ew. With an each cup.

Ew. A body oil. Yeah. Sounds yucky.

Nichole: That makes, it sounds like they're sloughing off oil off of bodies and putting it in this bra. Or that your own body oil is just like contributing to like Ew.

Laurel: Wow. Yeah, it's actually like really like eco-friendly. 'cause it just sloughs off oil from your own body into the bra as you sweat more throughout the day and your fluids drip into it.

Ew. Your boobs get bigger.

Daniel: It's like a, it's like a still suit bra. It's like a dune bra. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What it actually, the, the sci-fi like film that it's been recalling for me though is just water world, where I'm like, yeah, is this, is this the type of bra that they use in water world? They

Laurel: hate it. It just reminds them of the hell landscape they're stuck in.

They're so buoyant. You don't really need a bra. You know, like who wears a bra in a pool? Nobody 'cause your tits already floating.

Nichole: it sounded like you were trying to tell a joke.

Daniel: It's like a fighting joke. It's like you set up a joke. Yeah. Then you tell the punchline that is not a punchline and you just make really intense eye contact.

No. One fucker

Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour.

Nichole: I'm Nicole. Well,

Laurel: I'm Laurel.

Daniel: I'm Daniel. She's drinking a Coca-Cola.

Laurel: You gave it to me. So it's your fault.

Daniel: Yeah. Who

Laurel: could have predicted that this is what would happen?

Daniel: I shouldn't arm you with sound makers.

Laurel: I'm just thinking of, you know, those noisemakers that are, it's like, it's almost like a sardine tin on top. Yes. And there's a little handle and you just crank it.

Nichole: Yep.

Laurel: Daniel doesn't know.

Nichole: Yeah, yeah, I know. I know. Oh, you didn't confirm audibly. She's just thinking of all of the ways he can keep those far away from you.

Laurel: He's

Nichole: like, and so he makes sure he's, you never come across one in your life.

Laurel: He's remembering there's like a stash right outside the curtains. He's like, don't look directly at it. Don't look

Daniel: directly at it. Or she'll know.

Nichole: Now I know what to get you for your birthday and for Hanukkah and for Christmas. Forever and ever.

Daniel: Laurel is the, the kid that like everybody is really upset that they got them a laser pistol for Christmas.

Nichole: A laser

Daniel: pistol. You know, one of the like toy laser pistols that makes a, oh,

Nichole: that like makes a noise.

Daniel: I

Nichole: think he meant reun. Mm. Laser. Laser.

That's like the time that my brother, my brother called Toad stools. Um, frog chairs. It's so close.

Daniel: And was he serious?

Nichole: Yeah. I mean this is when he was like a little kid. He was a little kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This just happened for you babe. Laser. Pistol. Yeah. I have no

Laurel: excuse.

Daniel: It's called laser pistol in a lot of sci-fi.

I'm just into hard sci-fi.

Laurel: Oh,

Daniel: Reagans are for your fucking, you know, cheesy ass

Laurel: Name one.

Daniel: Name one what?

Laurel: Sci-fi That refers to Laser Pistols.

Name one. Now nobody because they're already floating.

Nichole: Oh my God.

thank you for making me laugh.

Daniel: You are welcome.

Nichole: I needed a laugh today.

Daniel: Yeah. It's been a day, huh?

Nichole: Yep. Yeah.

Laurel made me laugh too. so Berts, as you know, I went to the hospital a while ago, and while I was at the hospital, they, uh, did a CT scan, For my internal bleeding and they found, a lesion on my kidney. and so I had an MRI on Monday and I got the call today that I've got to go to the oncologist. so I feel like I'm just in.

some shock and, I'm really afraid I'm never gonna be funny again.

Laurel: it's the other way around. Like you can't make jokes about cancer patients, but as a cancer patient Exactly. You can make any joke you want, essentially. Well,

Nichole: see, this is the thing is that like Laurel sends me a

Laurel: voice

Daniel: memo.

Yeah.

Nichole: It

Daniel: frees us up too, as your family. Now we can make cancer jokes too.

Nichole: So Laurel sends me a voice memo that says, And then she said, And my first thought was like, okay. Okay. Great. What's the most obnoxious. I survived cancer, a sticker that I could possibly get.

It's gonna be a window decal for the back of my window, right? Yeah. It's an American eagle that is, that has the American flag behind it. That in its mouth is one of those cancer ribbons,

and it has a banner that says, this driver survived cancer.

Daniel: I'm glad you went with the ribbon. I thought it was gonna have like a tumor in its fucking be Oh

Nichole: no.

Daniel: It was like a fricking Prometheus eagle.

Laurel: Maybe. Maybe that's what's in its talons. Yeah, the ribbon is in its mouth. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's like very gory.

Daniel: That's the, this is the natural treatment for for cancer., This is the future that RFK Jr. Wants. Yes.

Laurel: Oh God. Well, now. This needs to be made. I mean, is, is this our first piece of merch?

Nichole: We have so many first pieces of merch,

Laurel: so much, so much

Nichole: fantasy merch.

so hopefully by the time this comes out, I'll have already like gone to the oncologist and figured out next steps. Um, but I was thinking like, okay, well, let's say worst comes to worst. Um, we know that I look really good in a pink wig and I could just maybe just start my wig journey early. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: Is it Stu, is it too early to start shopping for wigs?

Laurel: I think it's too early. It's never too early to start shopping for wigs.

Daniel: I mean, ews, ews. This does seem like kind of a wimpy cancer, you know, no wimpy cancer.

Laurel: Oh my God. Daniel means that as a direct attack on anybody who is not suffering from pancreatic cancer this moment, it's

Nichole: not pancreatic, which is good.

Yeah. Yeah. it's incredibly early, it is small. We'll see. We'll, you know, we'll see what happens. I was not expecting, yeah. This news I was expecting like, totally free.

It's just like, oh, you had a piece of, they had a piece of gum that was stuck on the, on the CT scan, and that's what it was. I really thought that like, and then to learn, like, no, like my, it also freaked me out because my, doctor called me, emailed me and texted me Oh. and just said, I really need to talk to you.

So that's why I was like, all right, well, hmm.

Laurel: Hmm.

Daniel: The gum thing though. One great joke. your, your cancer I think is making you funnier honestly. Um,

Nichole: well now I don't wanna get rid of it

Daniel: now that I can, now that I can be a survivor and I'm funny.

Nichole: it will likely be fine.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: and, you know, next steps, they could just take the whole thing. So we will see. think it's gonna be fine. We don't know that it is cancer yet. They're just, they're cautiously optimistic that it's

Daniel: Wait, what?

Nichole: Like,

Daniel: like that it could, like if it's not cancer, like what is it? Like we don't know. Like

Nichole: then it's just a benign tumor.

Daniel: Oh, okay. I thought you meant that they were optimistic that it's cancer and not like an alien egg sack or something. Like

Nichole: they are opt I can, I can 1000% guarantee that they're optimistic that it's not an alien egg sack.

Great. Yeah.

I can't believe I'm sharing this on the podcast. 'cause I literally haven't, I have not told anybody. When is this coming out? Like three weeks. You've got a delay.

Daniel: this is like when Laurel, talks shit about partners and then she has like that long to like break up with them.

Nichole: speaking of relationships, this podcast is all about 'em and it's all about 'em. And I think we're gonna do my fa one of my favorite segments, right? Oh yeah. Is it monogamy? Are you okay?

Daniel: Well, it's good to know that the possible cancer diagnosis hasn't made you any nicer.

Yeah. It's your favorite segment. Monogamy, are you? Okay? Is the segment where we look at examples of toxic monogamy from the interwebs and mercilessly mock them?

Laurel: We got a sweet little diddy from our favorite subreddit, monogamy. What do they even talk about on here? I don't even like understand what are, what

Daniel: You don't, don't criticize them like they are like. Fighting the war against the rising tide of sluts.

Laurel: Yeah. Well, I mean, let's be clear. The polyamory subreddit is not any better.

Um,

Daniel: true. These people are survivors.

Laurel: These are, they are survivors, they do kind of bring up a serious issue in this one. Oh. So let's begin.

Do you find celebrity crushes in monogamous relationships to be fine and harmless?

Nichole: Fine. They're fine. They're,

Daniel: they're, they're fine. Harmless.

Nichole: Harmless, truly. If anyone is described to me as harmless, I know immediately I'm not going to like them. That's fair. Right? That's fair. Yeah.

Daniel: You're, you're like a, what would be the opposite of harm reduction? You're for? Uh, harm. Harmful harm.

Accretion. Harmless. Harmless.

Laurel: the only way in which I really describe someone as harmless is if I find them extremely annoying. But powerless.

Nichole: Yes, exactly.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Exactly.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: It's a way to describe a man who you know is going to hit on you 24 7, but you're forced to be in a car with them on the French countryside.

So specific.

It literally was my friend trying to be like, it's gonna be fine. He's fine. He's harmless. Yeah. And this guy just wanted to talk about Tarantino all weekend and English was not his first language, so there was only so much we could talk about.

Daniel: I just imagine him trying to act out various like moments from Tarantino films with charades, like he is just taking his socks off.

Nichole: And like starting the car with his feet. He No, it literally was just him saying titles of movies to me and me going, yep, that is one.

Laurel: Anyways, let's find out. our original poster continues more than your partner. Saying something like, X, Y, Z is cute and passing, I'm talking about crushes that they invest feelings and energy in watching slash saving their photos and videos and the likes. I had a partner a few years ago, still remember it all very clearly though, who said I was crazy to be insecure about a celebrity crush.

He had a few celebr crushes. Two of them lasted for a few years, and at some point it wasn't just annoying, it started to genuinely hurt. On top of that, when I expressed it was actually painful that he kept looking at her photos and videos or seeing him repost things, calling her goddess and such. His answer was, I couldn't even have her in my dreams.

To me, it was just another woman. She just happened to be rich, famous, and out of his reach. I can't see a difference between crushing on a celebrity versus a regular person because the only difference is the accountability and possibility of it going further, right? But the underlying mechanism is the same.

It is someone you love investing their emotions, fantasies, time and energy, openly expressing that they would really want this person if they could be with them somehow. On top of it all being rather immature and parasocial. Do you think it's as harmless as most people claim it is. And would you not feel hurt if your partner was someone who did this?

Wouldn't you feel like you aren't enough for them or that they are not that into you? Personally speaking, I only developed crushes on others when I wasn't in love and into someone, or quite contrary. You think it's a silly to be hurt over your partner Crushing on a celebrity.

Oh,

Nichole: is this, do we have the gender of the poster?

Daniel: I think

Nichole: it's, it's prob Oh, a woman. It's, it's,

Daniel: yeah. Yeah. Thank you for saying it. So I did not have to say it

Laurel: Yeah.

it's always straight. People

Daniel: is she like looking at a different internet than I am?

, Is her internet filled with passionate defense arguments for the harmlessness of like celebrity crushes?

Nichole: No, I think she's just like, I think she's looking for validation that she was right to be insecure about this crush that her boyfriend had on a celebrity. And quite honestly, I think that's just, a d Lulu way to think about monogamy.

Right? Because monogamy or monogamous always talk about like, yeah, of course I have feelings and crushes for other people, but I choose not to act on them.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Like this is the idea that you just shut down as a human being and solely focus all of your sexual and intimate energy on one person, which is insane to me.

Daniel: It, it feels like it betrays a basic misunderstanding of what celebrity is. Celebrity is like cultural crushing. That's exactly like, yes. It's, I don't think that you can live under 21st century media without having

Nichole: celebrity crushes. You can't live in capitalism without having celebrity crushes.

it's a capitalist means of like, you know, lauding certain people and, their material wealth, but also just like she has to know that a celebrity is a brand. Nowadays, like they're not, they're not presenting their whole ass selves as much as Anna Kendrick wants to believe that, like, I wear sweatpants and I am quirky, is like Hey, don't talk shit about Anna Kendrick. She's my

Daniel: celebrity crush.

Nichole: She's great, but she made an entire, brand on being, the like relaxed girl. The cool girl, gonna wear sweatpants and eat pizza. Girl.

Daniel: I think, I think she's really, Anna, I think that you're really genuine if you're listening.

If you're non-monogamous.

Laurel: Does it count if it was like a cartoon?

Daniel: You mean like Arum having a crush on Bugs Bunny when he was a kid?

Laurel: Exactly. I just needed to give you the opportunity to bring that up again.

Daniel: I mean, that's a good question. It'll, because it's like pushing the, to the max. The, it's just as out of reach and implausible. Yeah. And kind of just as fictional and, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. I mean, maybe not quite as fictional, but pretty fucking fictional.

people have crushes on characters. Right. I think that a lot of people, like with celebrity crushes is also a really common thing To be like nonsexual. And same sex often, like the way that you talk about certain celebrities, Nicole mm-hmm. Feels like celebrity crushing. Absolutely. And I don't know these people, and I don't think you're jerking off to pictures of them or anything either.

But when you talk about Dolly Parton or Ann Margaret mm-hmm. Or any other, busty lady of the sixties or seventies. you get that, you know Mooney Glow? Yes.

Nichole: Yeah,

Daniel: yeah.

Nichole: What's the tenor of the comments?

What do they say?

Laurel: So most of 'em are like, yeah, whatever man. Like Yeah. It's weird if they're like doing obsessive things and like being creepy about it.

Daniel: Yeah. Do they have the fucking murder wall of the celebrity? That's a good question to ask. Yeah. Is it

Nichole: a John Hinkley Jr. Situation?

Daniel: Do they have a crush on John Hinkley Jr.

Because, you know, he is, he's outta jail now and he is making music, Yeah. So they're like, like most people are just like whatever. As long as they're not like being stalkerish and like sketchy and weird. the original poster is talking about a partner they had a few years ago, like they're looking for validation on something that happened a few years ago.

Nichole: This person is deeply insecure.

Laurel: Yeah. So I'm thinking that might be the, that might be the problem that, that, but there are a few good like choice comments. one with 11 up votes. No, it's never harmless to indulge in cheating behavior. Wow.

Daniel: Wow, wow. Uh,

Laurel: another one, only four up votes. No, it's the same thing as if it were someone, you know, the difference is the lack of accessibility nowadays, people's definition of monogamy is distorted.

A reply to that. Thank God you said this.

Nichole: Oh my god.

Daniel: I've kind of gotten this vibe from some other posts in the monogamy subreddit that the definition of monogamy for a lot of these people is not finding others attractive. Right? Yeah. It's like not being attracted to others. Not entertaining fantasies.

Like, like, it's like thought, like thought crimes. Yeah. the, the boundary is crossed as soon as you picture someone naked and, oops, I'm, you know me, I'm just gonna picture them naked. As soon as you tell me I can't,

Nichole: I mean, that's what I don't understand is that my understanding of monogamy Being a natural person and having feelings toward people, but not acting on them.

that's what I understand monogamy to be.

Laurel: Yeah. But some people are fucking nuts. Like this person, nobody is blind.

Thinking someone is pret or handsome is fine, but no sexual thoughts about others. And then I just like this whole exchange, someone else responds to them, simmer down their thought, police, and then they say, no thought police. But I wanna partner with the same mindset as me, never thinking about other people's sexual, why don't open up if thinking about it is normal, what,

Daniel: why not open up?

Like, why not have an open relationship if thinking about it as normal? Is that what

Laurel: Yeah,

Daniel: But you, you enjoy the broken grammar. But I,

Laurel: yeah. Yeah. And this, see, this is the person that Nicole is talking about that responds You've seriously never had a passing sexual thought about someone other than your partner and expect the same of them. That is not realistic, in my opinion. Yeah. And their final comment, no, absolutely. Never thought about another man than my husband.

This way everyone can live their life and their relationship. That's fine.

Nichole: Okay. Well thank you. Thank you so much for permission.

Daniel: as someone with OCD, this strikes me as especially unrealistic. ' part of like having OCD is having intrusive thoughts that you do not want to have, and specifically not wanting to have them is what makes them come back, right? Yeah. So you get all sorts of terrible, taboo shit, violent shit. that's like par for the course.

And I cannot imagine living in a mind where these people feel so secure in their ability to control their thoughts. One, it sounds kind of nice after being exhausted with a lifetime of OCD. Mm. But two, it sounds a little boring. if you could completely control your mind in this way, like, your brain is just like a Lego structure that you just sitting there like as assembling your thoughts in exactly the way that you want.

Nichole: See, I feel like that is exhausting the idea that I can control my thoughts. I mean, we practice meditation and, and the idea is that you're just like, your thoughts just kind of float in and then they float away, right?

Daniel: Yep.

Nichole: I, I am so not in control of anything. Yes. Much less my inner landscape.

Laurel: I wouldn't be surprised if there is some correlation with people with this like, very particular fixed mindset on like the nature of monogamy and, religious shame and guilt. Mm-hmm.

Because there is this belief that you can control and like finely tune yourself so that you never venture outside of a very small box. But of course that's unrealistic. And so then they have to like self flagellate when they step outside of that box and carry like a deep sense of like shame.

Mm-hmm. but they, you can't talk about it because you've already spent all this time like judging all of these other people for how bad they are. Mm-hmm. That you can't let your own badness be known and surface. But more importantly, I'm wondering like, what do these people do when they're bored in a meeting?

If they're

Nichole: seriously

Laurel: not, think about what it's like to fuck everybody. Yes. Yeah.

Daniel: Very good question. And specifically like how do they even get up in the morning if they're not able to think about fucking Aubrey Plaza,

Laurel: right? Yeah. At least two to 18 times a day.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: That's what the doctor ordered. I just pictured her saying that.

Yes, Dr. Plaza. it's also like a weird thing that the mindset is like, oh, these people would a thousand, 1000000% if they actually had the opportunity to like fuck their celebrity crush that they would actually do it. And I'm like. Have you guys never met anybody? Like people are wildly disappointing.

Yeah. Wildly disappointing. Yeah.

Nichole: That's why I don't ever wanna meet my heroes. Yeah. Ever,

Daniel: ever. Or incredibly intimidating. Like yes. Like can you imagine, just average Joe Schmo dude walking up to fucking, uh, Sabrina Carpenter. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah, Sabrina.

this is delusional on multiple levels. Poor girl.

Laurel: Listen, I knew this guy like several years ago, and he had a crush on celebrities and would comment on their Instagram accounts. Mm-hmm.

And I didn't like it. And he was like, shut up. It's normal. And I just wanna know guys like I was Right, right, right. I

Nichole: was right. Yeah. I'm sure she got a little bit of validation. I mean, only from

Laurel: these loonies. Okay. Like everyone else is just like, whatever, man. Okay, good, good. Hopefully she got some

Nichole: perspective.

Daniel: I hope the celebrity was somebody like really, really fucking weird. Like, I hope that she's just haunted by this because it was like Richard Kind.

Laurel: It was weird. Al

Nichole: It was Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

it was Judge Judy.

Daniel: it's not that weird to have a crush on a strict Jewish lady.

Laurel: No one's saying that. that's the next Reddit post I wanna read to you all. Huh? It's posted by Paul Amateur Hour.

Daniel: Laura Laurel, don't punish me, please.

Laurel: We will talk about this after

Nichole: the show. Oh my God. I don't wanna be a part of your games.

Laurel: I just like these other titles of posts

Daniel: from the monogamy. Yeah. Subreddit. All right. You're just gonna do like a quick, a quick roundup of, post titles.

Laurel: If someone says they're open to monogamy, they're not

no sincere relationship these days. No. Lifelong exclusivity doesn't exist.

Nichole: What

Laurel: the cult-like behavior I keep seeing amongst e and m communities. Well,

Daniel: that's fair.

Laurel: That's fair. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: If you would like to join an ENM cult, please reach out to Poly Amateur hour@gmail.com,

Nichole: or you can visit our website@polyamateurhour.com. Or you can follow us on Instagram at Poly Amateur Hour.

Daniel: Or Blue Sky.

Nichole: Yeah, blue Sky. Yeah, I did it.

Daniel: Or you can send your entire contents of your bank account to Venmo. Just, well, I actually have to figure out, uh, a Venmo for Poly Amateur Hour. Why? So we can start our cult.

Nichole: Oh, I think the money comes later. I think we just indoctrinate people and then we ask them for money.

Daniel: The indoctrination started a while ago. That's true. Where you've been. Yeah.

Nichole: We, we have a name for fans.

Laurel: Yeah, we do. We're those people. And,

Daniel: and despite being non-hierarchical, we kind of have a tiered system where we refer to gold star stewards. Yeah,

Laurel: yeah, yeah. They are better and more loved

Nichole: speaking of Stuss, I believe we have a question. for ask the amateurs.

Laurel: Ask the amateurs.

Nichole: From Stu ENM poly CNM swinging. The lifestyle, et cetera. Why so many categories or nomenclature do you think having distinct segments and subsets is a hindrance in normalizing this way of living?

I Think it feels rooted in trying to establish a sense of close-knit community, but I don't think you find this in monogamy.

Daniel: True. you know, once in a while, because I really want people to spit in my mouth. That's, that's a callback. That's a, is that too old? That's deep. Is that for deep, deep cut. Deep cut.

Nichole: I'm getting ready.

Daniel: Okay.

Nichole: Do not, do not play the sound. Dammit.

Daniel: Do not.

Laurel: Dammit.

Nichole: Please do not. Or if you do. Wait to put it until after I qa

Daniel: I once in a while, like to like quote fancy ass books.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Uh, and I think I've even quoted this one before in the context of talking about monogamy and non-monogamy. the first line of Leo Tolstoy is Anna Corina.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Is,

Laurel: yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: I think you have referenced this before. I'm gonna, I'm gonna open wide. Oh God is. All happy families are the same, but every unhappy family is unhappy in their own way.

Laurel: You bring this up so much, it's like not even pretentious anymore. It's just like boring rote.

Daniel: This is like fucking Daniel 1 0 1. but sometimes I think about that, quote in the context of monogamy and polyamory, where I'm like, all monogamous relationships are the same, but every non-monogamous relationship is non-monogamous in its own way.

Laurel: Hmm.

Daniel: what are the, like the various states that you could possibly break down a monogamous relationship?

You know, I guess it's like, are celebrity crushes allowed? Is pornography allowed? Oh my God. Are

Laurel: they allowed to talk to people of their Attraction gender. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Are they allowed to be alone in the room with somebody of their attraction gender?

Nichole: Yes,

Daniel: exactly. Or does

Nichole: mother have to be there? As former vice president, Mike Pence. he used to call his wife, mother, and mother had to be in the room whenever he talked to a woman. My grandfather actually

Laurel: called his domestic partner mother sometimes o

Daniel: yep, it's old timey. I think that he was just probably self-censoring though, because the last part was fucker.

That's

Laurel: what

Daniel: my mom believes.

Nichole: I think. Those, what we just described are like rules, right? I think the nomenclature is a tool. I don't know that it's necessarily a tool for normalizing. I think it's a tool for navigating. Yep. Yeah. It's like you self-select into these distinct groups. You know? Like we were all confused by Ls.

Yes. On one of the hu unicorn Hunter, hunter profiles. Right. We're like, what the fuck does that mean? And it's like, oh, the lifestyle. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, because it's known amongst that, culture and not necessarily like. Right. So it's like, I think it's just, I think it's a navigating tool or it's like a self-selection tool.

Laurel: it definitely seems like a way of finding your people. Yes. Because somebody who defines themselves as non, non-monogamous versus polyamorous, I'm like, okay.

I assume there's a certain set of things that are off the table for that person. Yes. In our relationship. Yeah. So it becomes sort of like shorthand Yeah. For us to like, identify people. And I think like most like labels, it's like to identify an ingroup and an outgroup.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: and yeah, and monogamy because it is just such like a pervasive social paradigm. we have a certain set of ideas about it that are just assumed. Mm-hmm. Whereas in our culture, we can't make those assumptions. and there's a lot of gradation between the popular conception of monogamy and polyamory.

I think monogamous people would be better off having more of a conversation. Mm-hmm. Of course. Yes. About it. Yeah,

Daniel: I would like to know just before I start, even like hanging out like in a platonic friendship basis with a monogamous couple, if they are shitty monogamy.

Laurel: Well, the funny thing is it's considered part of the non monogamous lexicon, but monogamish mm-hmm. Yeah. Is in there. Yeah. And that is to describe mostly that they're monogamous.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: But you know, there's certain exceptions for certain kinds of situations.

Daniel: Yeah. And some of this is in order to avoid association with. countercultures that you have some kind of, shame of or disdain for? Like if somebody is saying that they're monogamish, like behavior might be in some ways like swingers, like they may like, right?

Laurel: Yeah. Like

Daniel: operate as a couple, but they don't want to be associated with that.

Laurel: or there's an assumption that swingers are always behaving, like all swingers, behave the same way and all do the same thing.

Daniel: Yes. Yeah. And to be honest, that more than anything was what kept me from, identifying as polyamorous for a long time and instead identifying as ethically non-monogamous or mm-hmm.

Consensually non-monogamous, is certain cultural associations with polyamory. I was like, okay, well I don't play tabletop games and I have never been to Burning Man. Mm-hmm. And I don't do contact improv. And now that I realized that I could be polyamorous without doing any of those things, I, I identify as polyamorous.

And now I've started to do them one by one.

Laurel: Now that you've realized that everything is contact improv. Yeah.

Daniel: Oh, no.

Nichole: Stop. No, don't touch me. Don't touch me.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I mean, I think it's interesting, just what you were talking about, Laurel, with, monogamous people should have conversations, right. Because it's, such a forced function of polyamory and non-monogamy We have to have conversations about feelings and expectations and what we, you know, where we're at because we don't have a roadmap.

Yeah. And I think, it's one of the things that I really enjoy about non-monogamy and polyamory is that like I do have to have like radically honest conversations. And then when it comes to monogamy is just like the escalator is there.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Right. Like it's very, it's, it's very straightforward what the expectations are.

Laurel: Yeah.

and you're either on the escalator you're not, and Yeah. If we're not, you know, if we haven't reached level two of the escalator, then is this worth it?

Daniel: But I, I guess what I was saying at the top, it's not that all monogamous relationships are the same, that's an exaggeration, but kind of tying together a few things that we've said, if when you embark on a monogamous relationship, you generally get.

A set of preset rules. the set of values that they bring to a relationship. And so you need to know if those are going to match. And it's not like there's just simply one set of rules that's not the dominant paradigm. And then, okay, if it's not like Mick relationship, then it's,

Laurel: yeah, then it's

Daniel: relationship king, you know, like it's, it's not.

Laurel: What about relationship Junior or Jack in the relationship?

Daniel: That's, that's solo polling.

Laurel: Oh my God. Yeah. But I do think, the interesting thing about having so many naming schemes is it can be, a barrier to entry.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. and also I constantly see people use them incorrectly. Yes. Not in a, you're not allowed to define things that way, but just in a, literally see people refer to their partner as a metamor or total Yes. Or say I'm open, but I'm not polyamorous. but then describing that they want deep, loving relationships with multiple parters.

Yeah. And I

Daniel: think that's a but but no tabletop games.

Nichole: Right. That's where they draw the line. Yeah. But I think that's a function of this being a new language. Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like it, there are things that people are learning, I don't know how this happened, but I'm definitely like dating some folks that seem to be a little bit newer mm-hmm.

To the dynamic. And so I am having a lot of conversations about, like,

Laurel: remember when Nicole said she would never date a newbie?

Nichole: I didn't know. I didn't know.

Daniel: She didn't know how hot it is when they're hot for teacher.

Nichole: Continue. Sorry. I'm just saying like, like I feel like I've been putting up like more boundaries of like, well, those are things that I don't need to know, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or like, well, I'm telling you this because of this and this and this, and being very plain about this is what I want, and I, I don't know.

It's just, it's it's an interesting experience Yeah. I feel like it's a two-way navigation, right? Like, it's like they're navigating this and then I'm having to navigate. They're navigating. Yes. Yes. It is an added layer. What are you smiling about?

Daniel: It's nice to see you be the old hand in certain situations and I'm sorry I said that because I know you're insecure that your hands look old.

Nichole: You actually do know that because you know me so well. I do think that my hands, look, I was sending photos of like me holding my iPod and. I like moved the iPod and my hand. So like, you didn't see most of my hand because I really do think that they look so wrinkly.

Daniel: You like have the like, like the card hand where he, he reached through the, the time barrier and his hand suddenly like aged 50 years.

Yes.

Nichole: Yeah. Don't I? Don't you think that my hands look old?

Daniel: No, not at all.

Nichole: No.

Daniel: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I can't follow you on this journey. Self-loathing. Why

Laurel: can't, why can't you just validate Nicole's feelings about her old hands, grandma's hands,

Nichole: piece of candy. Grandma's hands. She used to shake. Sometimes I swell.

Wow. That was a really bad bill with her. Wow.

Daniel: Wow, wow. What was I saying? Oh, who knows? Moving on that

Nichole: I was old hand at something.

Daniel: You're like an old salt. Like, you know, like when we started this, you were the, you were the movie

Nichole: when we started this 900 years ago.

Daniel: Yeah. I mean, your hands were old. Well, we're gonna, but now the rest of you is caught up with them. We're gonna have to carbon date those.

Putting my hands on my sleeves so nobody can look at them. I had, I had one, I had one more thought on this. I thought you were gonna say like one more joke, like one more old hand joke. I had one more mean thing that I wanna say to Nicole. Yeah. now I have one more thought on the labels Okay. It's all of these fucking, like different nuances and gradations and definitions that people feel like they have to navigate. Okay. Am I defining them correctly? Am I doing it right? Am I really this, am I really that? but much like the spectrum of L-G-B-T-Q, Ia, once you reached q plus,

Nichole: who's old now?

Daniel: I'm, yeah, I'm gonna, I I him, there're only four letters in your, this is my, this is my old fashioned Gen X shit. Where I'm like, I'm not putting a fucking, plus I'm not drinking any fucking merlott. Okay. So like, once she reached. Queer, like it became an umbrella term that like could encompass so much.

Mm-hmm. It was like a little bit like anarchic all of a sudden, right? Mm-hmm. And I kind of think that relationship anarchy functionally has done kind of the same thing Hmm. For the, like the, the non-monogamy spectrum, right? When you hit like relationship anarchy, people have gone like so far to relationship anarchy that they're back to monogamy, right?

I mean some people are defining relationship anarchy as such a lack of rigid frameworks that you could have a monogamous relationship and be a relationship anarchist it's just a frame of mind, man.

Nichole: oh, I had a good segue. No, it's gone

Laurel: Well, you know who would have some interesting thoughts about this though?

Daniel: Stubbert, during the course of this episode, we received a communicate.

From a beloved gold star, top of the hierarchy, Stubbert. Our first piece of our requested Dr. Phil Smut. And so we need to convene an emergency DM sliders.

Nichole: DM sliders is the segment where we read your emails and reviews and so on and so forth. And part of the DM sliders is the smut that we receive, the smut that we ask for, na. Beg for,

Daniel: you know, how like a certain, you know, preparation of a taco or a burrito or a sandwich or a burger or something at a restaurant.

They'll be like, oh, get the dirty one, right? no, it happens.

Laurel: You're at, you're like animal style.

Daniel: Yeah. Like, kind of like

so,

Nichole: so like

Daniel: or wet, a wet burrito.

Nichole: Can I, yeah. Wet. Animal style. I've never heard of, like, give me a

Daniel: dirty burger. I've seen, I've totally seen this. I have totally seen this.

Laurel: Okay. I want to, I want to test this out. And when we go to restaurants, I want you to say, oh, can you make that dirty? And see what happens?

To see what happens.

Daniel: They just bust a load in your fucking hamburger. God, it's

Laurel: not a martini, martini martini. It's not a martini for goodness sakes.

Daniel: So what do we call a super smutty dm? Sliders. It's not animal style.

Nichole: No. 'cause we already have an animal

Daniel: segment. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. We

Laurel: can't conflate the two.

Daniel: Is it dirty sliders?

Laurel: I mean, the thing is like DM sliders already has like an overture of

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Sex to it.

Nichole: That's true.

Laurel: oh, DM sliders, unsolicited dick pic edition

Daniel: Oh, oh oh. Uh, DM Sliders, open Face Edition. Open face,

Nichole: because he's still thinking about sliders being burgers, little sandwiches,

Laurel: an open face burger.

Nichole: Yes. Open face sliders.

Laurel: You can't have an open face burger.

Nichole: Watch me like if it was a tuna melt. Sure. Okay, so next time, next time we go to a restaurant, you have to ask for a burger open, face and dirty.

Laurel: You ask for it, ask for it dirty. And they're like, what? And you're like, you know, open face. I'm just like winking. I'm winking

Daniel: every time. Can I have a dirty burger?

Cannot be open face.

Nichole: I really hate that. I'm hungry right now.

Daniel: Alright.

Nichole: Alright. We we be,

Daniel: we better play our audio message of Dr. Phil Smut that we have received.

Nichole: Yeah, I wanna hear it.

Daniel: Yeah, me too. Yeah, also me. I literally haven't heard it. None of us have heard it.

Ben: Hey guys. I really liked the request for some fanfic of Dr. Phil, but I was thinking about it, and if we're gonna do a fanfic, maybe we should push it towards fantasy fiction. Uh, in this particular scene, I'm imagining Dr. Phil as a good person instead of a crazed right winger. So if you will. The stage was set.

The audience buzzing with anticipation. Dr. Phil walked out to thunderous applause, his trademark confidence Smile lighting up the room. Today, folks. We are deep diving into how the traditional views of monogamy can sometimes become toxic.

He introduced a couple, Sarah and Mike, . Sarah. Can you tell us why you feel suffocated in this relationship? Sarah looked nervous but determined. I love Mike, but I feel like I can't even have friends without him getting upset.

It's like I'm trapped in a box and I can't breathe. Dr. Phil nodded thoughtfully. Muck, what do you say to that? Mike crossed his arms defiantly. I just don't want her to get hurt. I thought it was just about being committed to each other. Well, that's understandable, but commitment should never feel like a cage.

When we confuse jealousy and control for love, toxic monogamy can create an environment of distrust, making partners feel more like possessions than equals.

. What if we approached relationships not with fear of losing, but with respect for each other's independence? The crowd erupts in applause as Sarah and Mike nodded their face reflecting a mix of hope and realization. Let go of the chains of toxic monogamy and embrace the beauty of a partnership where we both can thrive. The audience cheered as the lights dimmed, Sarah and Mike shared a tentative smile, ready to start their journey towards a healthier relationship and seen.

Nichole: Now, fuck each other.

Daniel: first of all, great. Dr. Phil impression?

Nichole: Mm-hmm. From the stu Yes.

Daniel: Yes. From the stu No. Yours is dog shit.

Nichole: I can't remember what mine was, but I don't think that it was,

Laurel: I, I don't think it was good. What was your

Nichole: It was not,

Laurel: it was not good. No.

Nichole: Now fuck.

Daniel: while I appreciate this fantasy world, and it made, it gave me a little bit of a feeling of, you know, optimism and, and hope that there could be a, a future in which we deprogram, Dr. Phil. I was looking forward to the sex. You know, I was hoping that like when it, when the, when the light dimmed at the end, it would then be like, you just heard Dr.

Phil's zipper,

So yeah. Sorry. Sorry. I'm, uh, red penning it already red penning and just drawing a dick.

Nichole: No, I think. I think this is just chapter one. Mm. So stews, you need to come in with chapter two.

Yes. Because unless you're Ann Rice, apparently when you write smut, you don't get to the sex right away. No. You,

Laurel: you

Nichole: dance

Laurel: around it for like

Nichole: chapters and chapters and chapters and chapters.

Daniel: Yeah. But this, this feels like responsible therapist, Dr. Phil.

Like this is exquisite corpse, right. Where you just get to draw whatever fucking torso you want. Yes. Right? Yes. This is

Nichole: Dr. Phil leaves the stage. Yeah. And he leaves his inhibitions behind.

Laurel: Oh, there's so many good ideas here for you, Stu. So someone needs to pick up the reins and continue. Life and times of Dr.

Phil or Sarah and Mike. I mean, like, I feel like Dr. Phil needs to be like a thread throughout it. He doesn't always have to be the main focus. Yes. And

Daniel: I don't mean to be critical, but you know what else this was missing?

Laurel: Cream pie? Charlie?

Nichole: No. Who suspiciously sounds like Dr. Phil. Dr. Phil. I think they've never been seen in the same place.

I say back,

Laurel: what if, what if Sarah and Mike. in the future, go home. And then they make this thing where they like fuck to their episode of Dr. Phil all the time.

Nichole: But then they find that they can't actually get it up unless Dr. Phil is on the tv. Wow. Wow. So they invite their friends over to watch Dr. Phil.

Daniel: Now, see now it's just virtual. Dr. Phil though, I want, I want a Dr. Phil in the room. What if Dr. Phil can't get it up unless he is. Playing a TV therapist. And so when he has his hot freeways like Uhhuh, he just sits them down in two chairs in his living room.

Nichole: He can't help it. He can't help but be a therapist.

Laurel: He has a dungeon, but it's just his office.

Daniel: Yeah. Th this is the one fantasy element that we are retaining from Ben Schubert's. Wonderful intro is that Dr. Phil in this universe is competent. Dr. Phil, this universe is actually a doctor. Yeah.

Oh my god. I'm not a doctor, but I play one with my partners.

Nichole: Well, baby,

Daniel: uh, I

did wanna say that however much we, mocked. You are, wimpy Cancer this episode.

Laurel: I think that was mostly you. You were the only one that called it Wimpy Cancer.

Daniel: Laurel gave me notes before. She's my, she's my comedy writer.

Laurel: What if I wrote everything Daniel said on the podcast?

Nichole: Then we wouldn't be giving each other looks all the time, which we do.

Daniel: Um, we're gonna be, we're gonna be here for you. to mock your cancer every day moving forward until it slinks away in utter shame and embarrassment.

Laurel: Yeah. And then makes its own disc track about us