Laurel: Congratulations! What if we said that when people burped?

Daniel: Just getting the gas out of you? Like, There was a moment when you weren't sure it was gonna happen?

Laurel: There are so many things. Now that I am an expert aunt, Because I've had a niece for seven months. There's lots of things that, you like congratulate and celebrate babies doing, cause a lot of times, it's their first effort, they're figuring out how to do it and you're like, Yeah, congrats! You really fucking celebrate it, and maybe we should carry more of that through life, is all I'm saying.

Song: Talkin bout love and sex and power, All our polyamateur hour.

Daniel: I feel like it's nice to have somebody in your life who notices gas.

Daniel: A baby notices

Laurel: gas. Dogs.

Daniel: Dogs. And I was thinking about, I was thinking about Darla. Our little dog always notices when I fart. Me and Nicole have become completely acclimated to the gas. Me and you too, Laurel, I think to an extent. But Darla I fart on the couch and she springs up and runs to another location as though I have betrayed her somehow.

Daniel: I was like, I did not know you had another mouth that could talk.

Nichole: I don't know what it is about, your flatulence that like really scares her. Yeah, it's real. It's real. I've never seen an animal react that way. She's so offended. She's offended And scared. Like she looks like, like, what, what?

Daniel: I think she reacts like it's a command to her.

Daniel: Like she's, there's no hesitation. Just like, , a little fart. And then she just stands up and walks off. There's no buffer. She's not thinking about it. Maybe she's

Laurel: like a sleeper agent. She's triggered by fart. You don't know what she's doing. She just walks away and she's gone and assassinated somebody.

Daniel: Oh, this is some. This is some TikTok content waiting to happen. Oh, yeah. Manchurian Candidate Darla. Aww. Aww.

So cute.

Nichole: I'm trying to come up with a pun for Manchurian Candidate. Manchurian Candidog.

Nichole: Welcome to Polly Amateur Hour.

Daniel: The variety show for people who love variety. Or. A deeply unserious podcast about serious relationships. Yeah. It's choose your own tagline.

Laurel: Yeah. Which one are you

Nichole: for as deeply rooted in polyamory as we are, and this. Podcast is we do come up with a lot of binaries. It's it's either chaos Muppet or order Muppet. It's either one tagline or the other.

Daniel: I mean, I feel like we're just uh, inviting people to break our binary. You know, We just don't get enough communication back from the people.

Out

Daniel: there in the world, like we, this is an invitation like, give us another tagline, choose the tagline which you want,

Laurel: You're, you're saying we set it up so they can knock it down.

Daniel: Yeah, we're, this is a slow pitch to our audience. Yeah. Yeah. Come and get it. Interact with us.

Laurel: Please, we're so lonely.

Daniel: We really just want our Polycule to involve thousands and thousands of people listening to this podcast. If you're listening to this podcast, let's do that. You're in our Polycule.

Laurel: You're already on my map. You're already on my kitchen map.

Daniel: Speaking of maps,

Daniel: we've been looking at the Polyamateur Hour Listenership. Um, We get just mysterious data.

Laurel: Which has happened.

Daniel: That was just an idea that just occurred to me.

Laurel: Oh, cool.

Daniel: So we've been watching the Polly Amateur Hour listenership map and trying to, think of all the people. Who have just started randomly listening to the podcast in states where we know no one.

Daniel: And it's very exciting for us. You know, One day we're like, Ooh, look, there's somebody in Utah. Oh, look, there's somebody in Virginia. And inspired by this, we've decided to start a new segment called My Own Pauly Idaho.

Song: How I long to be in my own Pauley, Idaho, where I can be free and blow who I want to blow.

Daniel: But it's not all about Idaho. It's not even tangentially about Idaho because we have no Idaho listeners yet.

Laurel: Correct. Please, Idaho. Yet. Yeah. Yet.

Daniel: Reach out. Tell us what tagline you like. So first off, we'd like to kick it off with a My own Pauley, Idaho, Iowa edition.

Laurel: You did some research. You took the initiative, and you reached out to Iowa, right?

Daniel: The entire state of Iowa. There's

Nichole: only four people there so, it was easy to do. So we had a listener in Iowa, an unidentified listener in Iowa. We don't actually,

Laurel: we don't actually know who you are individually, we just see you show up on the statistics.

Daniel: So if you are our Iowa listener, please. Email us at polyamateurhouratgmail. com or just drop by sometime. Our address is Don't.

Laurel: Oh, you know what I forgot? Like I keep forgetting to mention is that we do have a website polyamateurhour. com and you can submit questions there completely anonymously.

Laurel: So there's like a form on the website where you can just type in the box and send it. So if you didn't want to like associate your email address or your Instagram. Oh, thing with it. You can do that. I keep forgetting to. Good job, Laurel. I had

no idea. Yeah, I know, I didn't tell anybody. That's a really good idea.

Daniel: For a while before you overwrote the templates, there were like fake ads for like sex advice.

Laurel: Every, everything creation comes with its own like AI generator now. So it's like, Tell me like, what your webpage is about, and then it generates some bullshit for you,

Laurel: and yeah, there was all kinds of, like, yeah, sex therapy, sex education stuff

Daniel: we start the website and then all of the sudden there's a completely AI generated version of Polyamateur Hour. Oh my god. Hits the airwaves. And it's way better than ours,

Laurel: but it consumes so much more water. It's really wasteful.

Daniel: I think it would be way too focused.

Daniel: Like people listen to us to have their minds scrambled a little bit. So

Laurel: people will listen to us just to lose track of what was going on.

Daniel: I did a little bit of research, and I reached out to the moderator of one of the Iowa polyamory groups on Bookface.

Daniel: Which I think was something that people used to use before Friendster came along, right?

Laurel: Yeah, I vaguely recall.

Daniel: People

Laurel: still use it for groups. Yeah.

Daniel: For Star Trek, for polyamory, and for free stuff.

Laurel: That's true, yeah. I

Daniel: think it's a valuable resource, and you just have to pretend that Mark Zuckerberg is not watching you. Yeah. It's like you're in a sex club and Mark Zuckerberg is there, and you just have to kinda close your eyes, grit your teeth.

Laurel: You gotta pretend your dad isn't posting weird anti vax conspiracy theories on there.

Daniel: Thank goodness my dad has lost the ability to really engage with social media. I reached out and I asked some questions about poly life in Iowa. And he responded back in like 10 minutes. I

Nichole: know. Did he want to share his name?

Daniel: He hasn't told me yet.

Nichole: Okay.

Daniel: So he just won't. Yeah. Um. We've asked if he would like to be, uh, thanked and celebrated. Hasn't got back to me about that yet. So at a future date, we will give a shout out to Stubert in Iowa.

Song: Attention Stuberts! This is an official update from the desk of the polyamateurs. In the time elapsed since our recording, our Iowan hero has responded to our query. He would indeed like to be thanked by the name his mama gave him. Our heartfelt gratitude goes out to William Spencer, sole moderator of the Central Iowa Polyamory Gateway Group on Facebook.

Song: All that said, we will still refer to him as Stubert throughout. Because we're polyamateurs, emphasis on the amateur, and you are all Stuberts to us. Beloved Stuberts all.

Daniel: Oh,

Laurel: hell yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Oh, no, I'm like, let's make a Stubert and Iowa shirt and send it to him. Get his t shirt size.

We'll make stupid shit. Let's make t shirts first.

Daniel: So anybody who wants to become a polyamateur hour contact

Laurel: in

Daniel: a non coastal elite state, write to us and we will send you a t shirt.

Daniel: A personalized My own Poly Idaho shirt. Yeah. Yeah. That will be my own poly. Your state .

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: My own Poly. Your state here, . He responded almost immediately. Absolutely. It will take a moment to answer your questions , and then 10 more minutes. And I get this wonderful detailed response because people in the Midwest are more earnest and kinder than anybody here in cynical bearded Portland.

Daniel: Our stubert of Iowa says, first, I want to say thank you for creating a podcast that looks to support our community.

Laurel: Aw.

Daniel: So in answer to the question, what are some of the specific challenges of being Polly in Iowa, he tells us Beyond the political vibe of the state, I don't know what you mean, Stubert, I would have to say how far apart we are from each other.

Daniel: I have seen people be happy to drive more than three hours to see a partner regularly. I have seen people drive as far as eight hours every few months. Just to see a partner. Sadly, a bigger problem is it costs a lot of money to do all that traveling. I have met people who just struggled because love might be infinite, but the bank account is not.

Laurel: Okay, pause there for a second.

Daniel: Yeah, digest.

Laurel: Yeah, cuz One, I think it's a funny thing cuz when I was living in California There were some partners that I would drive A long time to go see. And because of Bay Area traffic, like something that was a two hour drive could easily become a four hour drive kind of thing.

Laurel: And there's something like very particular about Portland too, though, where you become very like insular in your neighborhood and I'm like, Oh, if you don't live in North Portland, like fuck off

Laurel: like, okay so, One of my partners lives in Southeast and he was It's fucking light years away. He was considering moving to Northeast and I was so excited about it.

Nichole: I was like, Oh my God, that means I don't have to drive 20 minutes.

Nichole: I know exactly what you're talking about. But I also I had not considered this at all, in states where the poly population is very small, they are likely very spread out. And they probably meet in forums like this one or on apps or whatever. And so your options are limited. So you do have to put in the time, energy, and resources.

Nichole: Yeah. Actual cash money resources in order to maintain a relationship. I wonder how their like texting and calling game is And if they have any tips, I would love to know.

Daniel: It's probably a lot better than mine. Yours

Laurel: is non existent.

Daniel: Yeah. This was the most illuminating part of this discussion for me because it never even occurred to me, which shows just how fucking spoiled

Laurel: I am

Daniel: as living in this Mecca where people just, you know, when they want to make fun of polyamory, they make fun of Portland and when they want to make fun of Portland, they make fun of polyamory.

Daniel: Yeah. And. It made me really think about what I take for granted as far as the ease

of

Daniel: seeing the people that I love. It's almost like real life here is as fast as the internet in an urban center like this, right? Where communication is nearly instantaneous. You're five minute drive from my house.

Laurel: Oh yeah.

Laurel: I could,

Daniel: I can, if I'm having trouble sleeping, and Nicole is already in her sleep cocoon with the sleep goggles and, and has got the I

love my sleep goggles. Aww.

Daniel: She, zips up the uh, the sleeping bag up to her scalp. And then I'm just standing there staring at the ceiling. I can like uh, shoot you a text and be like, yes.

Daniel: Come slide into my bed in five minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and the idea that is just not at all Yeah, any kind of option made me A little sad at first, but then kind of inspired. These people really care about their communities their partners, to really go Amish with shit and just take a fricking, a horse drawn buggy, right?

Laurel: Which is what Stubert goes on to say. Yeah,

Nichole: exactly. That it's

Daniel: all.

Nichole: But it also, says to me, like a real commitment to themselves. Oh yeah. It would be so much easier to be monogamous in spaces like that. But they have such a commitment to who they are or what they believe in that they're willing to go to these lengths.

Daniel: And they're probably never taking their partners for granted, like I take you two.

Laurel: Constantly. Constantly.

Laurel: Just moments ago we were talking about how we're basically invisible to you.

Daniel: Hey, you two are both hypnotized by your phone. I can be snapping all around your heads. If you're looking at that screen.

Laurel: When?

Daniel: I don't remember. I was looking at my phone. Alright. Yeah, what else does Stubert have to say?

Daniel: My next question was, what is the poly community like where you're at? What are the resources besides the page you moderate? He says, I started a polyamorous discussion group in 2014 that evolved into poly game night. I handed that off to a friend and she has an event. Most months in Des Moines. Did I pronounce Des Moines right? I have no idea. It's

Nichole: Des Moines. I'm a coastal elite, so I have no clue.

Daniel: Des Moines

Nichole: es. Des

Daniel: Moines

Nichole: es. Des Moines es.

Daniel: I want to go to Des Moines es, see? I hear that's where the Kwan's at.

Daniel: We also had a karaoke night and a book discussion group. Sadly, those tend to be short lived. We normally have one or two social events, either camping or a day at the park each year. Online, we have two Facebook groups, a discord channel, and a group on FetLife. I moderate all of them with help from other members.

Daniel: I have tried to get others to run stuff and it never happens. Jesus Christ, Iowa. Can we lend Stubert a hand? Man.

Laurel: Karen, your whole community right now.

Daniel: If we get permission to follow up with his name

Laurel: and

Daniel: the name of the page, we're direct everybody. To, to, to, To, like crowdsource a, um, a polycule of labor and love.

Laurel: That is intense though. I've I've helped moderate a Facebook group, a Discord, and I started a Discord on my own for not poly related stuff, and it is a lot. It is so much.

Daniel: Moderation of any internet forum has a reputation for being a thankless task where you just have to deal with toxic people's toxic shit.

Daniel: But I feel like maybe moderating a polyamory forum might be a little bit different, because these are people who are used to trying to coexist in complex spaces.

Laurel: Yeah, on two, the Facebook and one of the discords that I did were polyamory groups, and there was not a lot of drama on them.

Laurel: And then I did like a labor organizing discord and all of them were like pretty curated groups of people that were like mature communicators and like very invested in a particular cause that also meant they were invested in other human beings and it's still a lot. It even when you're not just like putting out fires, it's just like, I don't, it's just exhausting.

Laurel: It's.

Nichole: On behalf of this Facebook group that I am not a part of and on behalf of the Discord that I am not a part of, I want to thank you, Stubert. Yeah. Thank you. You're really, you're doing, you're being of service. Yeah. Genuinely, I thank you for doing this.

Laurel: Yeah, and I think it's like, When I first started practicing polyamory like I went on poly subreddit.

Laurel: I found out about the multi amory podcast. Like I was part of that Facebook group. That was where I found a lot of my community initially. And so it's like really important to people. And even if you, end up straying from those communities. It's very like formative and figuring out who you are and how you want to behave or like the kinds of relationships that you want to build

Daniel: feel like that's another thing that we get to take for granted in a big left wing urban center. And I feel like I've been guilty of being a little bit cynical.

Laurel: Oh, yeah.

Daniel: About Polly groups, about Polly community things.

Daniel: I don't go to Polly events in town. I'm like, yeah, that's for people who are in the scene. I just do my own thing. I've got my own Polly Island. You can just come and hang out on it. Make cocktails. Cocktails.

Cock

Nichole: or mock.

Nichole: Your California accent is getting a lot better.

Daniel: Thank you. It's in the air at home. I'm just huffing California fumes all day. But this made me realize that this is a lifeline for like 90 percent of the people, probably in the United States who are practicing polyamory. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: My last question was any fun stories that you feel illustrate Poly life in Iowa once upon a time the following story is an example of how polyamory can work in Iowa I have seen triads and solo.

Daniel: I have seen new timers and old timers with different levels of experience my favorite way of being polyamorous is This is being part of an extended poly family. My favorite memory was when a new partner took me to meet her extended poly family. It was a house full of people with every seat taken. I was so nervous around everyone.

Daniel: My new partner was doing her best to make me feel welcomed and loved. It was a wonderful evening. Then, the gentleman of the house needed to go to bed. That would be like your place, Nicole. You go to bed at a certain hour. The gentleman of the house needed to go to bed and wished to give our shared partner a goodnight hug and kiss.

Daniel: She went to get up, and he just dogpiled on top of us. I was pressed under both of them as he hugged and kissed her. Yet, in that moment, I realized I was so happy to be part of this new family. For me, polyamory has let me connect with so many amazing people. And I would not trade it for anything. It's very sweet.

Laurel: It's very sweet and very like, you know, it's like, oh yeah, I see myself in that, yeah. So it's like a nice I don't know, I've never met this person. They're in a totally different state, but have connections and desires that like mirror my own and are like very relatable and just warm and fuzzy.

Laurel: I like that story. Yeah.

Daniel: All the more so because you've got the distance. You've got the factor of like, these necessary communities to keep people connected. And you can just feel his relief.

Daniel: And again, it made me think about times where similar things have happened with me, and I didn't.

Daniel: display the type of Gratitude. Yeah that I wished I could have. Iowa is an inspiring wonderful magical kingdom Thank you, Iowa

Nichole: I think I learned a lot. Yeah from these like four Messages that this person sent and I'm really grateful. I think this is a really good segment. I'm I'm looking forward to learning more Yeah about Listeners in other places because I mean my entire poly experience has been limited to Portland basically.

Nichole: Yeah And this is what makes it so interesting, right? Is that people have these varied experiences and some of them are out of necessity and it's taking it's giving me pause. It's wow, I have a lot to be thankful for with my current situation.

Daniel: We all do. I hope that we haven't over praised Iowa and then Iowa is going to get a hold of us and be like, you got it. You guys chill, chill.

Laurel: If you have a contrary Iowa experience and want to blow this shit up, let us know. We can talk about your shitty, awful Iowa poly experience.

Daniel: We also want to invite people from other states that are not Washington, Oregon, California, or New York. Yeah, fuck you guys. We just don't want to, we're in our own fucking echo chamber already.

Laurel: We'll come back to the coast. Yeah. But let's start with the meaty middle, the south.

Nichole: Yeah, I want to hear from people again, outside of the coastal elite.

Nichole: Outside of, maybe even the western states for now.

Daniel: Everybody, we are saying coastal elite, ironically, as members of the coastal elite. We are not conspiracy theorists.

Is that what that is? I don't know. Yeah, kind of, yeah. It is? Like, uh, Yeah. I

Daniel: feel like it's a, it's like a dog whistle on the, on the right it's a dog whistle for uh, Jews.

Daniel: A little bit like globalists.

Nichole: I had no idea that that's what coastal elite meant. I just assumed because I was born and have always lived within two hours of a commute to the ocean that I was a coastal elite.

Daniel: I really like fancy perfumes fancy liquors, and the beach.

Daniel: I'm a coastal elite.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah, it's something they say on like Fox News. Ain't no fucking

clue.

Nichole: I feel so

Laurel: No,

good for you. It's a nice place to be. Now I know. Now

Nichole: you've

Daniel: ruined

Nichole: it. Now we've ruined it.

All

Daniel: right. So the states that we've got an eye on, Utah. Illinois um, Florida. You've got, we've got at least one listener in Florida. New Mexico. Nice.

Ooh.

Daniel: So yeah, reach out to us, connect, invite us to your flyover state We will land the plane And be like, this plane is landing right now.

Daniel: We're going to Pauley, Iowa folks.

Nichole: Iowa is the Polly, is the Cuba of the Polly community.

Laurel: Alright, do we have a question?

Song: If you got questions, don't demur, it's time to ask the amateurs.

Laurel: Yeah, we have a question. I've got a question from a stubert. I have trouble with my family accepting my relationship orientation. Most don't take it seriously. At least one thinks it's a trauma response to our childhood, and none really consider my partners as serious relationships.

Laurel: It kind of stings to hear the occasional, when you find someone you'll want to settle down with. It feels easier just to lie through omission, but then I miss out on sharing parts of me with loved ones, regardless of how problematic they are. What advice do you have for navigating these emotions and dynamics?

Thank you, Stubert.

Daniel: I had some of this. reaction with my family. Yeah. When I first started coming out as non monogamous. And Granted, as I've been reminded of many times on this podcast, it was a slow motion arrival at full throated polyamory. I like to think that I've just been like that, this since I since I burst out of the womb with a field profile.

Daniel: But uh, it was this kind of a slow burn for me. And when I first started sharing the fact that I was non monogamous, The big reaction that I got was the typical reaction, I think, of boomers who lived through the 60s sexual revolution, which was, Oh man, I've just seen that not work. I just don't think it can work.

Daniel: And there was a lot of like gender based reactions to it. My mother initially was like, I just don't think, that's good for women. I think that it is something that men do to, manipulate and keep their, freedom to prowl around town.

Daniel: And so there was both the reaction where this is not a practical thing. It just can't function. And to these gender based judgments about this being something that men perpetrated on women, which honestly in the 60s. That's probably a lot of what it was about. Most 60s were cults of one size or another.

Daniel: What's the guitar playing one with the beard that you really like? Nicole, your favorite cult? The Source

Nichole: family!

Such joy!

Nichole: I just, I, it's the one cult where like it never got to a creepy scary place. They just made real great music. They had a vegan cafe in Los Angeles. They all lived in a house together.

Nichole: And the cult leader was like, I think I'm going to die today in a hang gliding accident. And everyone was like, what? And then he went hang gliding and he died. And that's the end of that. He didn't kill anybody. I really hope I'm not forgetting a major piece of

this story. Someone goes and looks into it and it's just like really dark.

Daniel: His name was Charles Manson.

Daniel: Alright, anyways. Yeah, so I think the way that I worked through it was consistency.

Daniel: And finally, introducing the people in my life, my partners. Repeatedly, in the part on my dad's part, he just forgets all the names. So I have to do it. Twice when I introduced them, this is Laurel.

Daniel: But in the case of my mother and my sister, Who also both had similar, even though my sister wasn't from, the boomer generation she's a Gen Xer, but still had some of those reactions initially. I think that when they met Laurel a few times and saw that you are this consistent force in my life.

Daniel: and experienced the irresistible feeling of liking you. It happens when people are, laurel exposed. They were like, Oh, I get it. This is a real person, a real relationship, and you have real feelings for

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: And so I think my advice to Stubert is maybe you haven't done enough of the bridge building.

Daniel: If you really try multiple times and there's still that resistant to it, that's another thing. But, we have to pretend now that you don't have additional information, but

Laurel: We don't have to pretend. We can

Daniel: This is this is a Laurel partner, Stubert.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: a stubert of Laurel, as opposed to a stubert of Iowa.

Daniel: And I believe that you've only been like introduced to his family once.

Laurel: Yes, I've only met them once. And they found me Very

resistible. That was part of the problem.

Laurel: But yeah, I it is an interesting thing.

Laurel: Like we get in this pattern of like, oh, my family or my friends or so and so makes me feel uncomfortable about sharing this part of myself. So I will stop sharing this part of myself and minimize it and then it, but it like perpetuates this pattern of it being a customizable thing.

Laurel: And I think like when I came out to my family, like when I told my mom and my brother I don't, I think that they didn't, they were very kind about it, but I don't think they knew what to do with it initially. And I think there are still times that they are uncertain.

Laurel: I think occasionally like my brother will make a comment or ask questions that's like what's going on? I don't know how that works kind of thing. Or there seems to be sort of a reluctance to call my partners partners. And I don't think it's a malicious thing, I think it's just uncertainty.

Laurel: But it's the more that I show up, and the more I'm like, like, this is a consistent person in my life, or the more that I'm like, meet these people the clearer it becomes, and the more difficult it becomes to like, deny that that it's just a phase or deny that it isn't a phase, rather.

Nichole: I think, I've told my story of coming out to my mother which was a really important moment for me. And inspired and spurred by the fact that you were coming to Thanksgiving, Laurel. And you also followed up my coming out to her with writing her a very lovely card which made her cry.

Daniel: She loves weeping parents.

Nichole: I guess I, I might break off a little bit from you too, in that, I share what's important to the people who are important to me, right? And I guess I'm wondering, how much of their opinion matters to you,

Laurel: to the

Nichole: stubert? Because I'm fully experiencing this very beautiful gift that I get to experience. And I don't necessarily need them to approve of it or applaud it for me to continue it.

Daniel: But you are in the position where the members of your family that you have communicative relationships with are very accepting of your polyamory.

Daniel: And I think that if you didn't have that I think that you felt differently during the era when you were not out to your mother.

Nichole: Yes I, but I don't know if very accepting is accurate because there is still there are still reservations about me being gay. Sharing this with my dad.

Yeah.

Nichole: Like I've been told explicitly, don't share this with your dad.

Nichole: And that's not my journey. I don't have to accept the discomfort that I feel of somebody else's choices.

Daniel: But you do have to accept a slight, perhaps, faint, princess and the pea discomfort of the lingering possibility that someday your dad will just find out. And that's a stress, I think.

Daniel: It's something that I think about sometimes. In the case of, your dad, and that'll just show up and it'll beat me down.

Nichole: Honestly, just I just don't think he'll even understand. Like, I don't think that it will affect him the way that other people think that it will affect him.

Nichole: I really don't.

Daniel: He's a surprising dude, in a lot of ways.

Daniel: I think it's really important sometimes when people are hurting you to let them know That they're hurting you because a lot of times they may not know and if they do know that's good for you to know

Laurel: Yeah, it's a yeah, it's a complex situation I think that in the age of internet therapy the distillation of like family relationships is does end up being kind of like binary, where we look at it of like, Oh, you can either have this like regenerative healing moment with your family and things will be okay.

Laurel: And then they will accept you and then you will finally feel accepted and you can be a whole human being now, or it's like cut off your abusive family, fuck them, go be your own person on your own. And it doesn't account for this huge swath of people who do have really complicated. Neglectful or abusive family histories who still want to maintain relationships with these people.

Laurel: It's a really difficult place to navigate. It's a, it is a difficult place to watch someone try and navigate it. And I think to your point, Nicole, I think there's a certain degree to which you have to accept.

Laurel: That they may never accept it, that they may never approve.

Nichole: I think that's more what I'm saying is that it's not that like, ask yourself if you really care about their opinion. It's more like people are going to act in ways that you have no control over. And this is something that you don't really have control over.

Nichole: And so yes, building bridges is a great. Um, Because it gets you more confident in your own relationship with your own partners and with your own family, but like not every family dynamic is going to be open to that. Yeah.

Laurel: They're not all going to get on the bridge once you build it. then you have to decide like what feels like is within your, power and integrity in that moment.

Laurel: And I had decided for myself, like I had, I've never like come out or had a conversation with my dad about it. But I just tell him about my life and. Like I do with anybody else. And if they like catch on or they're like, wait, why is this partner different than the partner last week?

Laurel: And , just like the nature of our relationship, we don't really have conversations, which is its own sad thing. But like I just at a point decided like, regardless of, regardless of the comments people make or how accepting or not accepting they're going to be like for me to feel okay with myself and feel like honest.

Laurel: about my life. I am just going to continue going on as I go on and not omit things because I'm worried about somebody else's reaction. And that's easier said than done when you're surrounded with people who, You have a long history with, of like, um, of saying either like, belittling or diminishing things.

Daniel: Sidebar dads fucking suck Like is there like a universal disassociative quality of fathers?

Laurel: Like I want to, I want to blame the world that they grew up in like I know that my father was raised by a philandering, disassociative, gambling addict,

Daniel: my father was raised by a neglectful, disassociative CIA agent.

Nichole: Yeah like, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know that my dad sucks. He experiences the world in a different way than I do. And that's okay. I do feel like we've gotten closer, the longer I've lived outside of the house.

Nichole: And the more that I've just come to accept who he is as a person.

Daniel: I guess what I'm saying is if dads are singers, they have like, a half octave range. They can like, They sing like, three notes um, and they don't listen to any of the other singers. Like, It's just uh, Like, I feel like in all of these instances, Like whether by experience or by assumption, it's all like, well, my dad just won't even catch it.

Daniel: It'll just go right over his head. You and me, Laurel, have had that experience in reality. Oh, yeah. Where he just doesn't care. Um, And, you know, Nicole, you just kind of know this by instinct that he's not gonna care. And it's so, you know, this has been daddy issue amateur hour.

Laurel: I mean, That's a funny thing. Cause what part of that question is like, Oh, one one of my siblings or one of my family members thinks that my polyamory is a trauma response to her. I'm like, Oh, are we all just having a trauma response? I don't think it matters. Even if it is a trauma response, I don't think it fucking matters.

Laurel: I don't think so either. Our lives shape us nature nurture, I don't know, I am who I am.

Daniel: It's like when people say neurodivergent like, who isn't neurodivergent? What isn't a trauma response?

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: Negative and positive,

Laurel: yeah. Yeah. Polyamory is my trauma response.

Laurel: I fucking made out like a bandit. . Yeah. , did you say made out with a bandit? .

I wish.

Daniel: Oh my God. There's this little city in southern Spain where there's like a banditry museum. It's just really, it's really a joy. Just like whole, like dioramas of like famous bandits.

Nichole: I love that.

Daniel: Fun fact. There's also a a kind of unofficial Italian liqueur of banditry. Myrto, that's made of whole macerated myrtle bushes.

Laurel: Wait, what? How is like bandits drink it? It's like they're, yeah, it's known like, Oh, if you go into the saloon, it's from

Daniel: a Sardinia. Um, Where apparently they like to go to the islands where people can't catch them or their booty.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Booty.

Daniel: This has been Banditry Amateur Polly

Daniel: Banditure Hour.

Nichole: I have never heard the word banditry. Yeah. Yeah. I've never heard it at all,

Laurel: period. This is a first for me.

Nichole: Did we answer the question?

Laurel: Families are hard.

Nichole: Families are hard. Families are really hard. And I think the way that you navigate is completely dependent on the way that you navigate other tough feelings, I guess. yeah. As somebody in recovery, I typically do those kinds of steps around this kind of thing, or if you have a particularly tight relationship with a therapist, then it's worth working through with your therapist, reading some books. Like I practical advice I think is do some self investigation.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like a big part of it, like in a very Celestial way. It's just what, who do you want to be? Who do you want to be in this situation? And be that person. Easy, done. You're welcome.

Daniel: Tag it, bag it. To connect this with my mental health, I think that what you're really looking at is the necessity for acclimation. Like for my particular anxiety disorders, OCD I have to expose myself to the things that make me uncomfortable in order to become comfortable with them.

Daniel: And I am seeing like, your family is anxious about your polyamory, but you have not really given them the chance to feel acclimated with it because you are reacting to their anxiety by just taking away the stimulants, right? You're like, okay, you're uncomfortable, I'm not going to bring this to the table anymore.

Daniel: But I really think, just like when you're working with something like OCD, you need to bring it to them over and over again. You need to show them the thing that they're uncomfortable with many times before you can really give up and be like, okay, they're not going to accept it. If you want There to be this open pathway back and forth if it's something that you decide that this is a priority for you I just really recommend what I said at the top is like consistency and persistence and Showing them the consistent relationships in your life.

Nichole: That might be the bigger question though It's like what is it that you do want? I think we're assuming that it's a safe environment for this person to be in and that this family is a safe space to express or share these things.

Nichole: And not everybody has that.

Laurel: Yeah, what is it you want? How much are you how much are you able or willing to tolerate? in that journey To get there and I think, yeah, to your point if it's not necessarily like, safe physically or mentally, emotionally what tools do you bring with you?

Laurel: What mechanisms do you have to keep yourself safe through those moments?

Daniel: Noise canceling headphones.

Nichole: But if you do, if those if those metrics are met. And you are in a safe environment or you are in a place where you trust that this person will get to acceptance. I do think that like the building bridges is a very good plan because it reinforces like, Hey, it's not made up.

Nichole: It's not this thing that I'm like, I'm not making up this person or people in my life. I am inviting you to be a part of it. It also just reinforces like who you are as a human being like you get to be more comfortable in that space, too And share that with family or maybe or friends who are not I think we're mostly focusing on family, but family who might not be 1, 000 percent on board.

Daniel: Luckily stupor you've got a laurel who I think is willing to brave some shit Just, you gotta, you can have a Laurel in the father's den.

Daniel: I think that she's probably willing to do the work with you to be like, hello, I am Laurel. I'm doing Laurel dance.

Laurel: Dance, dance, Dance.

Daniel: And I'm doing, not jazz hands, but laurel hands. Yeah,

Laurel: they're specific. They actually look like bat wings. Awww. Awww.

Daniel: Shall we

Laurel: Move on?

Daniel: Move along home?

Laurel: Yeah, to some Polly mindfuckery.

Nichole: Oh, are we gonna end on a downer? That's a downer? Don't worry, we'll lift it up. Make fun of me all you want. That'll make it fun. Yeah, okay I have a Polly mindfuck story.

Song: It's like a game of telephone, with plenty of feedback. Invited three horses, got only one pizza. Ya balls on ya face, ya got self feedbacked. We're gettin the popcorn, and leanin our seat back. Can't blame ya partners, it sure wasn't Rhyme Lock. You are the author of this poly MINDFUL!

Nichole: Okay Laurel, it was your birthday party this past Friday. And I showed up late because I had a place to go and then I had to go get ready.

Nichole: And then I showed up at your place. When I showed up at your place, I made a beeline for our mutual friend who I was very excited to see her costume and she had helped me put this costume together. And Daniel came up behind me in the kitchen and said to me, Good to see you. And then kissed me on the cheek.

Nichole: And I did not like that. I immediately chastised him in front of other people. And said, I hate when you do that. Because I felt immediately like I was being treated like a colleague. And that the tone was not as welcoming or warm. As I would have wanted from my husband and then he was introducing me to people and I made a point of saying like I'm the wife Such a shit thing to say Total it was a total cunt and You know so I dressed him down and then I had to make sure that people knew that we were married and that like I wasn't just like the unsuspecting no fun to be had.

Nichole: I was making myself out to be the no fun to be had. Yeah, it was like we

Daniel: were, it was like we were play acting as like a shitty like, shitty like, like, uh, don't ask, don't tell swinger couple or something. Like, What the hell is up with the wife? Delete the wife.

Nichole: Wow. Yeah. I mean, we had a great time at the party and we did dishes later together and we were Like a good wife. But we were very lovey the rest of the evening. And then this morning we talked about it and I immediately got defensive and tried to tell you just, like I kept repeating that you were treating me like a colleague and I hate when you treat me like a colleague and not your wife.

Daniel: For somebody who talks about work all the time and loves spreadsheets as much as you do, I'm pretty sensitive about the whole colleague thing.

Laurel: Daniel thought he was just playing a little game. I

Daniel: was like, so secretary um, I was just a little bit high on a tiny micro dose of fungus. When you showed up and so like I was coming in there like sensitive praying mantis energy and I was like, hello, it's nice to see you and I meant it in this deep, psychic, heartfelt way of like, I have not seen you for years.

Daniel: It is so nice to see you.

Nichole: I took it as you were basically like shaking my hand.

Hello. Good to see you again, distant colleague.

Daniel: I just didn't want to go too far into your space. Like I was like, is it okay to hug her? She hasn't given me consent in front of this crowd.

Laurel: A good poly mindfuck. Cause it's like, yeah, like Daniel's floating around in his fairy state. Ooh don't be overwhelming to my partners at this big social gathering.

Laurel: And Nicole's like, hey buddy, fuck you. Like, Be my husband. And I'm sitting in the ball pit. Like, when can we have

Nichole: sex, guys? Well, It gets more poly mindfuck because We talked about it this morning, right? Um, And we fought for a couple of hours. And our fights are very productive. Yeah. So I really actually I really appreciate Daniel's ability to have a fight with me because we always um, It's like

Daniel: productive, like a cough.

Daniel: Like a good deep cough.

Nichole: It's, that's so true. And disgusting. So we like round the corner. Of this fight and you're explaining to me how you were feeling and what you need in the moment And I am struggling to get there to give that to you and then I have to like, you know peel the way the layers and then I Then I come to the table with what it is that you need And then he's telling me that y'all are going out to drinks later this evening, and that he was inviting another partner.

Nichole: You son of a bitch. I was like, oh, okay, obviously I'm not wanted. I'm just the wife. And so I took this thing that happened, which was a plan that you all made. And you also said like, hey, can you like invite what's, invite that Stubert. I want to meet that Stubert. Yeah. Yeah. I did say that. And I. Bring the new Stubert.

Nichole: Yeah. I took it as. I took it personally and again, made it all about me and it is secretly all about you, babe.

Nichole: So it was another like partner dynamic thing, right? That wouldn't have happened in a monogamous relationship because if you decided to bring another woman, that would be an immediate

Laurel: Man, it is hard when things pile up.

I was just feeling particularly like

Nichole: raw,

I think,

Nichole: and I wanted to take something personal. Yeah.

Daniel: It's nice when there's a good lineup of things with identical shitty dynamics, though, so you can spot which things are definitely like the other, and maybe, choose the third option next time.

Nichole: So that was my poly mindfuck is I felt a reaction and need to assert my position in our relationship.

Daniel: And I just needed to be a little tiny bean that just gets scooped up and taken care of.

Laurel: Bean.

Daniel: I know. I'm tired of being the copy daddy.

Laurel: I feel like you get little

Daniel: beaned. I get little beans, occasionally. But I have to ask for the little bean. Like, Generally it's a um, I have to fill out some paperwork. Yeah, I'll put you,

Laurel: I'll put you in the queue. Yeah.

Daniel: With, With Nicole, you know, um, I have to put it in a spreadsheet. Do a, Do a uh, like a scope of work.

Nichole: Yeah. Request. I need a timeline and a budget.

Daniel: It's a pleasure doing business with you.

Song: This has been Polyamateur Hour, a production of Risa Records. If you have a question for Ask the Amateurs, or a recommendation for Is This Poly, please email us at polyamateurhour at gmail dot com. If you enjoyed the show, and you know you did, you perv, please subscribe to us on your podcatcher of choice, leave us a five star review, and most importantly, tell at least one person in your life to check us out.

Song: But we hope you tell three. Remember, the advice given by the amateurs should not be followed. Unless you are prepared to be ecstatically happy, successful, and strange. Until next time!