Nichole: Vrrrrr.

Nichole: Your turn.

Nichole: It's going to make us sound really good.

Laurel: I'm imagining because we watched Dark Crystal the other night, like everything in my imagination is just like in puppetry. land, so I'm just imagining us as like little furry puppets

Daniel: That's why I watch Dark Crystal every few days in order to just kind of reset my mind into the proper parameters.

Daniel: It's like an antidepressant and then I just see everybody as a Muppet.

Laurel: That's a good idea.

Daniel: Is this a tie in for our Chaos Muppet Order Muppet relationship theory?

Laurel: Oh, yeah. Tie it in, I'll tie it up.

Song: Talkin bout love and sex and power, All our polyamateur hour.

Laurel: Oh. Welcome to Polyamateur Hour with your hosts, Laurel, Nicole,

Laurel: Daniel,

Nichole: I'm the only one who didn't do a fucking voice.

Daniel: It's because we watched the Dark Crystal. It's because I'm

Nichole: the Order Muppet.

Daniel: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. There are Muppets that are just like humans.

Daniel: Although they're the old men in the Waldorf

Nichole: and Stadler.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: The ultimate order Muppets, the order Muppets to end all order Muppets. I

Laurel: think they're the horseshoe, they're like the proof of the horseshoe theory of order Muppetry, where they just get back around to the chaos side of things.

Nichole: Yeah.

Nichole: They're constantly heckling from the audience. I think that's pretty chaotic. Yeah. Yeah. And me as an order Muppet, I would never, I would never, I would never. Appalling.

Daniel: Are we mixing it up this time around? And we're going to start off with maybe a little bit of Unicorn Hunter Hunters.

Song: Do you wanna be there?

Laurel: Oh yeah, let's do it.

Laurel: Yeah!

Nichole: Should we quickly explain what Unicorn Hunter Hunters is?

Daniel: For, oh, as a little bit of a normie corner?

Song: I said when you got a question and you just don't know, you go to Nomekona, Nomekona. Define your basic terms so you can personally grow, you go to Nomekona, Nomekona.

Laurel: Oh yeah, it's a normie corner! I love a normie corner. Unicorn hunting in the poly community, I think originally was coined as this idea of a heterosexual couple, a man and a woman seeking a bisexual woman to be their completely easy breezy, beautiful third.

Laurel: And the trope is usually, she, In the process of this, she has to be like completely devoid of personality and like autonomy and personhood to fit all of their very specific needs to not disrupt the very precarious equilibrium of their relationship, which is God. Laughter.

Daniel: Come worship at the shrine of our love.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Which is very much in the tone of the one that we're gonna be looking at.

Nichole: Woo! Exciting! Oh, great. So in Unicorn Hunter Hunters, we find profiles of unicorn hunters and we rate them. Yeah.

Daniel: In three important criteria. Those are arbitrary rules. Previously we've had such such hits as bisexual women only and must be circumcised.

Daniel: Bisexual women must be

Laurel: circumcised.

Nichole: Bombacity, self aggrandizement. Yeah. Talking about how great you are.

Nichole: And then the third is would we unicorn? Yeah,

Daniel: which is like a little bit of a it's a true false thing. It's like, would we, yes, no, but you know, it's a spectrum. Sometimes there's a, sometimes there's a maybe.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Cause you know, how much can you really tell from a Tinder field profile?

Daniel: It's usually simultaneously too much and not enough. It is

Laurel: true. Oh wow.

Daniel: What a paradox. All right. So I'll just roll this one out. We're both in Redacted a few days every month, and I am available as a couple or just my plain old self.

Daniel: We live in a tiny cabin homestead in the Redacted Coast Range, outside conservative Redacted Town. Personally, I am looking for a kind, gentle, nurturing, feminine energy to spend some friendly time with. I want her to radiate the love of the universe while I am wrapped in her arms.

Daniel: My current partner is a total babe priestess, powerful, and nurtures with her wonderful cooking, but sharpens me with her feisty wit. Leaving room for the gentle, kind, nurturing energy that I crave from another. I am good at training Tantric priestesses to fulfill their divine feminine potential to radiate love, beauty, and passion to the world.

Daniel: This skill comes from the deepest part of my soul. I did not choose it. I can teach to manifest these types of goals through empowered sexual union, divine creation through the connection of masculine and feminine bodies with the intention of the betterment of humanity.

Laurel: Just, it's so hard not to laugh.

Laurel: Just seeing Nicole's face just morph from one mortified expression to another. Is it done? Please tell me it's

Nichole: done.

Daniel: There's more. Oh,

Nichole: God. Oh, God. Okay, keep going. And the segue

Daniel: is really great, so I'm going to back up and do the last sentence again. Divine creation through the connection of masculine and feminine bodies with the intention of the betterment of humanity.

Daniel: I also like to garden and fix stuff. I dislike buying new things. My lover, Redacted, and I, together, live Love group sex dynamics, including full swap and same room sexual experiences. We would love more practice co doming a sweet, beautiful woman.

Laurel: Wait, there's more?

Daniel: Yeah, but I'm gonna make you ask for it. I have experience and enjoy leading people into submissive experiences, both light and deep. My life experiences give me the skills to be ultra aware of the moment. I You are safe when I am present and at no other times because I am your sole Savior clearly this world.

Daniel: Whoo.

Huh?

Daniel: Discuss Cover,

Nichole: oh my god. It's done

Daniel: Yeah, we can switch to hers in a minute, but oh

Nichole: god

Daniel: For For those of you at home Nicole and Laurel are both amazing massaging their own faces as though to try and try and like, uh, squeeze the infection out.

Nichole: I just feel like this guy trapped me at a party with his guitar and I can't escape. Like, Oh yeah. Oh. And he's telling me about the medicinal properties of mushrooms and like the mycelial network and how we're all connected.

Nichole: I hate it. I hate it so much.

Daniel: I feel like he's standing in front of me and he Is refusing to let me look away. Like he's like, no, look deeper into me, me. I am the grand poobah. I mean, It seriously has some cult energy.

Nichole: Oh, a thousand percent.

Laurel: Yeah. That's some real, you gotta be so into yourself to say some of that shit and write it down and publish it in a dating profile.

Daniel: Don't you think he's really hiding a deep seated insecurity?

Laurel: Yeah, every, they all are.

Nichole: I don't, I'm not here to diagnose him. I'm here, I don't give a shit if he has insecurities.

Nichole: He's putting that energy out there that is. is minimizing some femme oriented person to a nurturing mother type, while his wife is sharpening him with her wit or whatever. And cooking. But I'm just I can't. I can't get the image out of my head of like, she's in the kitchen definitely making like a steak or something like that.

Nichole: Just like bloody steak. She's barely cooking it. And this per this woman is like cradling him on the couch in her caftan. And he's just so content. And he's like, Oh, I've got everything I've wanted because these women are playing roles in my life that I can't. I can't muster the self awareness or bother to do the work to cultivate within myself.

Nichole: I need somebody else to do it for me. I'm, I, oh, this is making me like

Laurel: mad. I'm, I am, no, I'm picturing all this except as Muppets.

Nichole: That makes it a little bit more palatable, I think.

Daniel: I feel like the whole thing was laced through with a little bit of venom toward his Actual partner like interesting because he's like, you know, yes, he's she's sassy and sharpens me which leaves room for a soft pillowy woman who can Wrap me in her blankety breasts.

Laurel: Yeah, it's simultaneously like nurturing mother figure, but also I'm gonna teach you the ways, but also I will guide you in discovering your tantric

Nichole: sexuality. That just means there's more room for the woman or whomever is coming in to make mistakes. Oh, yeah. Like, it would be very I think it would quickly devolve because they have these imagined parameters that this person is supposed to inhabit and one false move and like you're not being nurturing enough, right?

Nichole: Oh, yeah. You're not being submissive enough because we both want to dominate you. God damn, this sounds like a nightmare. I'm really scared to ask about what the other profile says.

Daniel: You want to ask? You say please?

Laurel: No. No! Go home. I'm never going to sub again.

Laurel: I just want to say how much. so much. so much. so much. How much I love this segment, because it really just like appeals to just

Laurel: the most, just cruel baseness of my personality. And I'm glad I can, I can channel it somewhere.

Nichole: Oh, you're welcome.

Laurel: And you know what? Someone out there is going to read this profile and be like, that's me. Sounds like sounds. This sounds fucking amazing.

Daniel: I, if you would like a referral to contact this person, please write to Poly Amateur hour@gmail.com.

Daniel: We'll give you the handle and you can live happily ever after in the kitchen. Bare where? Bare

Nichole: barefoot. In the kitchen where you belong. Truly. Sometimes, it has culty vibes and I do often think. Got to be great to join a cult because then I could just turn off my brain and everything would be decided for me.

Laurel: Yeah,

Nichole: so maybe part of my revulsion here is that i'm actually tempted

Nichole: Secrets revealed. All right next profile. Okay Should

Daniel: I

Nichole: read it in

Daniel: a muppet voice? No I am a super babe tantric priestess sex cult leader No and dominatrix. Not for beginners, unless you're sure what you want and are not afraid to ask for it. I'm interested in meeting couples looking to meet my partner and I as a couple.

Daniel: In a four way, it doesn't always have to be kinky. We can enjoy good old fashioned vanilla style full swap. Same room, etc. Redacted usually takes the lead. I'm interested in women looking to be sweetly seduced by a hot, sexy couple. We want more practice co doming beautiful, sweet, sexy.

Daniel: Innocent women. I'm interested in seriously submissive men who are willing to serve me tea or can take a good whipping, no strings attached. No other men need bother applying at this time. I really don't like staring at a screen, so I leave most of the communication up to redacted partner.

Daniel: If you don't like talking to him, you're not going to get to meet me. Don't be scared, you're I won't bite, too hard, devil emoji.

Nichole: I'm sorry. It just says sex cult. Yeah, I mean,

Daniel: it's like, is it ironic? Is it serious? I had a hard time parsing the line.

Laurel: Yeah, my sense was that it's like A vaguely self aware jab that's yeah, we do sound kind of crazy and culty but not self aware enough to be like, no, we are, and you probably shouldn't say it out loud.

Daniel: I have been sitting on this one for days. Just thinking about how much I wanted to share it with you as my gift. I feel like. We've been looking at these for a while and early on when I gave a different unicorn hunter profile, a low rating in the self aggrandizement category, I said, you guys, I've seen some profiles I've seen some shit.

Daniel: And I feel like you were like really what's more self aggrandizing. And there it sits.

Laurel: Yeah, this is true. This is true. This is on the next

Nichole: level. Yeah. Self proclaimed sex cult leader. Yeah. It's pretty. Can I, oh, do I want to see the photos?

Laurel: I'm overwhelmed right now.

Laurel: I'm just like overstimulated.

Nichole: Do they actually show their faces?

Daniel: Yes.

Nichole: They have to for the future Dateline

Laurel: episodes. Listen, you can't be, you can't be that, that self obsessed and not want people to see your face. True.

Daniel: I mean, I Think they also have to show their faces because, they're aspiring to be religious icons, all right, here is Lord Stubert.

Nichole: No, don't give him Stubert.

Laurel: Yeah don't offend our, don't offend our audience like that.

Daniel: This is true.

Daniel: Stubert, you, you have to, You have to earn your Stuberts. Yeah, you gotta earn your Stuberts.

Laurel: We love Stubert. Okay.

Daniel: Let's start our own cult

Laurel: now. Are we starting our cult?

Daniel: Yeah, Here he is. So I describe it for the .

Daniel: uh, .

Laurel: I, I love to, I love to essentially touch a tree.

Daniel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yep. He's got his hand on the tree gazing up lovingly. The tree is gazing down at him. Judgmentally.

Nichole: don't touch me.

Daniel: We've got a picture of his. Maybe Wicca altar, I think?

Daniel: And just the crotch shot with open legs. And a lot of henna tattoos on the thighs.

Laurel: Yeah, we're, I gotta take a nap.

Nichole: do it to rate them

Daniel: Yes.

Daniel: I'm going to give them a 9 in the self aggrandizement. I'm starting with the self aggrandizement because I feel like that's where they're really hitting on all cylinders.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. A thousand percent. I'm like, what's holding me back from giving them a ten? For

Daniel: hope. Someday. For hope that there's something

Nichole: worse out there.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah. I say nine, but what's holding me back from giving them a ten is no photos on a boat.

Laurel: Oh wait, stop letting us down, unicorn hunters. But that is I feel like that's a very different category of unicorn hunter. This is this is

Nichole: no, the boat in this situation would be like a homemade dinghy.

Daniel: Hey, don't talk about his dick that way.

Laurel: It's a yurt. In this situation. Don't talk about her pussy

Daniel: that way.

Laurel: No boat, only a nine.

Daniel: It's a lingam in a yoni. All right. How about arbitrary rules?

Nichole: I feel like the rules would come later, right? I feel like they're trying to intentionally be, Like they're seeding their desires, right? And very heavy on what their desires are. But as soon as you get in the door, that's when the rules would start to appear. And you would probably break the rules pretty quickly.

Nichole: For stating arbitrary rules, I'm going to say like a seven, six or seven. And then I absolutely believe that there would be rules that you would unintentionally break

Laurel: at eight or nine. Yeah. I feel like this is actually like a classic, this is the classic when conservatives or right wingers are Like the intolerant left I think these people are like prime example of that because I hate to give credence to, to bullshit conservatives say, but I do think that there is some truth to that.

Laurel: There's people who like to present the idea and image that they are so open and wise, and they couch it in the most gaslight y fucking bat shit ways so that you, yeah, it's, We just decided these people are gonna immediately start an abusive relationship with you.

Daniel: I'm going to give them an eight for two reasons. One the way that this dude describes like the divine feminine that he's looking for in this partner strikes me as a non human model.

Daniel: It's like I am looking for a an earth mother stone sculpture. I'm looking for like, I'm looking for like a heat rock like I'm a lizard and I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna lie on it. And so granted, like it's not explicitly stated, but it's like, you've got to be.

Daniel: Real fucking specific both in your soft bosomy body and your mental state to, to survive this. Yeah. And then she, once she gets into her shit like, if you're not going to serve me tea, don't even fucking try, dudes. And it's like, we're looking to co dom a sweet, innocent woman.

Daniel: She adds the innocent, like he has just sweet woman. And then when it gets to her profile, it's like, you must also be.

Laurel: like that screams you have to be, ignorant enough about what we're about to do to you that you think it's okay. That's what that screams to me.

Laurel: I was down in like more of the middle end of the spectrum about like arbitrary rules. Cause yeah they're not explicit, but I think y'all have convinced me that there's a lot of implicit, complicated rules going. So I'll hit a seven here.

Daniel: Now are there going to be any like real plot twists here at the end?

Daniel: Is there going to,

Laurel: for the would you, I can't wait to find out.

Daniel: Will you unicorn for them?

Laurel: I'm already sobbing. The idea of it is just making me weep inside.

Nichole: Yeah, I don't know how much Without blowing out the microphone, I could scream no, like I just, nightmare.

Nichole: This is my nightmare. This is my nightmare.

Laurel: This is the part in the Holy Grail where Is it the holy girl? Where the, it's the bunny, the, that attacks everybody. Yeah. There isn't, this isn't a big deal. I could take this. It's just a little bunny. And then it just brutally murders everybody, and it's just like, run away!

Laurel: Run away!

Daniel: Mm hmm. No. This has been Unicorn Hunter

Actors.

Nichole: Alright, should we move on to our question? And is the question a palette cleanser, please?

Daniel: It is. It's a really sweet question from one of my favorite Stuberts.

Nichole: Aww.

Daniel: Yeah, I've known this Stubert since we were both,, little Stubulas?

Daniel: A Stubula! Little wee Stubulas. And today he was kind enough to send in an audio question. Ooh,

Laurel: exciting.

Stubert: Hello, Nicole, Daniel, and Lauren. This is Mr. Jack, friend of cats. People with intellectual disabilities can often have difficulties with relationships. How common is it for people with intellectual disabilities to be in polyamorous relationships? Have any of you been in a polyamorous relationship with someone who is neurodivergent?

Stubert: What were the challenges? But most importantly, what were the rewards? What were the goodies? Thank you. Love your podcast.

Nichole: Laurel, I can almost guarantee he's already profusely apologizing

Laurel: for getting your name wrong. There was a time in my life where I just let people call me Laura or Lauren just forever.

Laurel: I've ended that time in my life.

Daniel: I have been in plenty of relationships with neurodivergent people and I'm always in a relationship with a neurodivergent person because I'm in a relationship with myself.

Laurel: Aww. Mm hmm. Yeah, I was like, I was like, who have I, who have I been in a relationship with that isn't neurodivergent?

Nichole: Yeah, I'm, I don't know that we can answer the first part of the question, which is is it how many or how often or do they?

Nichole: I think we

Daniel: Can because it's like, think people who are neurodivergent are way more likely to be in polyamorous relationships. At least as far as the sample sizes that I get. Yeah, I don't know, like Laurel says have I ever dated anybody in my polyamorous odyssey?

Daniel: That is not something that doesn't have a few acronyms.

Nichole: I guess we should also, can we pause and define neurodivergent? Oh, sure. Yeah.

Laurel: Weirdos. Fucking weirdos.

Nichole: Oh my god, Laurel!

Daniel: Can you count down until I do the quote?

Five. Four. Three.

Daniel: Do you know what it's going to be?

Two. One.

Daniel: The only normal people are the ones you don't know yet.

Daniel: Rodney Dangerfield, the wisest tantric uh, guru that I know of.

Daniel: And

Daniel: surprisingly he gets no respect.

Laurel: Oh Rodney. I'm sure there's actually like a An actual definition? A concise, actual definition of this, but I think most often in my life when referring to neurodivergent folks as either people on the autism spectrum or with ADHD, ADD that's usually. what I encounter most. I have been diagnosed with ADHD, but not on the autism spectrum, but also I'm just depressed and I don't know if that counts.

Daniel: I think it does. I think that when you have ways in which your mind works that are not typical, and specifically that can interfere with the ways that you operate in your day to day life. Like, I would consider my OCD. I would consider my OCD. A form of neurodivergence especially because it really does affect me and, in my day to day life.

Daniel: I got to spend like an extra minute and a half trying to decide what perfume I'm going to wear today that's going to align with the vibes that the universe is going to Oh shit, am I that couple?

Nichole: Um, So You and your perfume are. Yeah. So Yeah, I would widen that aperture, right?

Daniel: I would think, I would say depression and anxiety disorders are forms of

Nichole: Then I don't know anybody in my life who is not neurodivergent.

Laurel: I do think that there's like an interesting thing about autism specifically, which I think it's often found that folks with autism have trouble with social hierarchies.

Laurel: And in part because they're they're not based on anything like real or concrete. And so it's one of those things like, like earning respect versus just assuming a position of respect. And I see that like, directly applicable to polyamory in that it breaks down a little bit of those social hierarchies of oh, yeah, I have one romantic partner and they are elevated above my other relationships and stand alone off to the side here.

Laurel: And so there's a little bit of that kind of like, intellectual processing, which is like, but actually, why? And why couldn't I have multiple partners? Or why? Is there some implicit imaginary hierarchy to these things that doesn't actually exist?

Nichole: Does that get to the point, Daniel? Does that speak to what you were saying earlier about neurodivergent people tending to be attracted to polyamory?

Daniel: Yeah, I think people with ADHD are also more attracted to polyamory and, I'm trying to find a way to describe the reason without it just sounding like a, you know, a dig I've got the old ADHD and I think the desire to always be, enwrapped in something new is an element that I think drives some people to seek out polyamory.

Daniel: Yeah. And I'm sticking to it.

Laurel: Novelty isn't such a bad thing. I feel like it gets a bad rap. Especially for kids that grew up with ADHD, ADD, and their parents were constantly telling them to focus on something. And and there's a lot of pressure from society in general to pick a lane and be an expert in something.

Laurel: And so we like frown on this idea of of experiencing novelty as, as like a juvenile or adolescent thing. Which which is a really sad idea.

Laurel: Because there's so many people in the world, and they're so interesting. And like, what a wonderful thing to get to explore all that novelty in whatever capacity or degree you have.

Daniel: And you can look at ADHD like that, too. It's not necessarily You could look at it, not as necessarily an inability to be happy with whatever is right before you, but an exuberance about seeking out new things and a curiosity and inherent desire to like run out into the world like a chaos Muppet that you are.

With

Daniel: your Kermit arms. So the next time that I leave. a half empty seltzer

On the table

Daniel: nicole just remember That i'm just out there in search of the next magical experience.

Nichole: That makes it better I just want to know what

Laurel: this seltzer tastes like now

Nichole: Yeah, I guess I I I'm curious about novelty getting a bad rap.

Nichole: Do you feel like it gets a bad rap like every time? In straight culture or in like culture at large.

Laurel: I think culture at large. Yeah.

Nichole: I also think that like one of the beautiful things about polyamory is that you don't need to necessarily like cut yourself off from exploring a possible relationship because of the parameters of monogamy.

Nichole: And I do think that there is people do give a new relationship energy. Or known as NRE, a bad rap. People really talk about it, how it is the destroyer of primary relationships. And so thinking about, novelty I don't want to reduce ADHD and relationships to like moving on to the shiny new thing.

Nichole: I really like the idea. And I see it expressed in you, Daniel. And I see it expressed in you, Laurel, that it is not necessarily chasing after the new thing. It is a willingness to let yourself be vulnerable with the new thing and explore and being active in it. exuberant and joyful about it. It is not to replace necessarily like I'm bored with this one.

Nichole: Totally. I need to go chase a high. Yeah.

Daniel: I have some like observations about, dating people. On the autism spectrum. Think that it can bring up some touchy subjects here. Because

Daniel: whether or not you feel like capable of being in a relationship with us, with somebody with a certain type of neurodivergence can strike of ableism.

Nichole: Right.

Daniel: Um, And yet. I find I find autism specifically, just for me, very difficult to sustain relationships with. And that's in part because one of my stepdads, I gotta get that on the soundboard, right?

Daniel: One of my stepdads. One of my stepdads. One of my stepdads. Was very autistic undiagnosed while I was growing up and would just corner me with information downloads. And so I have like this PTSD reaction to the Specific type of autism behavior that's exhibited sometimes of like the information stream of like, I'm going to relate to you with the information stream.

Daniel: And I respond to that with my own neurodivergence. It's like, Oh, you've got that neurodivergence. I'm going to have a PTSD panic attack.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Um, And. And I'm just going to feel like I'm, claustrophobic, got to run out of the room. Got to go have some kind of two way conversation somehow.

Daniel: Um, And you know, I feel kind of bad about that sometimes. I'm like, Oh, why can't I be open and able to sustain a relationship? You've had a lot of relationships with people who are on the autism spectrum. How do you do it?

Laurel: Yeah, I don't know if I can answer that question of I have had partners that are definitely like, information downloaders.

Laurel: I think Most of the time I'm happy to receive that and it's like, Oh, this is like a interesting thing you're telling me about. It can get exhausting for sure. Like when you're downloading the same information repeatedly or if I'm just tired I'm also like a person that needs a like more time than I give myself to be alone.

Laurel: And not be processing information. So like, I think a big part of that is like knowing yourself and your own boundaries. And like when you need to give yourself that space and whether or not that needs to be communicated, you know, if it's as simple as oh yeah, I'm just not scheduling time with that person in this very moment, that's easy enough and you don't really have to communicate like, I'm not scheduling time with you specifically cause I can't handle your information dump.

Laurel: Or it's, you know, how do you like kindly communicate that in the moment of like, I'm full right now. Is there someone else you can dump to in this moment, or can we come back to it? I don't, and none of that stuff is like, as easy to navigate as it sounds. But I think it's easier if you set up parameters or your safe words outside of those situations.

Laurel: So that you have a plan when you're inside of them.

Daniel: I imagine for that it helps. If they are self aware that they have this particular type of,

Daniel: Neurodivergence,

Laurel: And I have had partners who can't stop. When you're like, I need to tap out and they just like, compulsively cannot stop and that is, that's full of tension that's a hard place to be.

Laurel: And I don't know if this is the right response, I think my response in those moments is just do my own sort of tune out, you need to continue doing this and I need to just do my own thing. And so I digress into my own little like Muppet world. Know if

Laurel: that's probably not the right answer.

Laurel: I don't know.

Nichole: You're both looking at me.

Laurel: Nicole, tell us, are we bad?

Daniel: No. Please appease

Nichole: mommy. Please appease mommy. No, I think you both have identified areas that you wish to work on. Daniel with her PTSD response and being like, yeah, maybe I maybe this is something that I can look into and further investigate.

Nichole: And then Laurel having to work on boundaries and making time for yourself, knowing that you need to make time for yourself and you don't do it as much as you need to um, I feel like I can't necessarily speak to. dating anyone on the autism spectrum or being on the autism spectrum. And I also cannot speak to being clinical ADHD.

Nichole: The only thing I can really speak to is anxiety and depression. And I don't know. I feel like whether it's, it doesn't necessarily matter the type of neurodivergence. Because everybody is coming to the table as a whole ass human being, and they have many shades of who they are, and those experiences differ day to day.

Nichole: Yeah. I think that, that is part of being in relation with people, is I also get to bring my own shades of gray to the table.

Daniel: Fifty of them.

Nichole: Um, because I, because I do

Laurel: have As she rubs her hickeys. Stop!

Nichole: I, I mean, I, I , have clinical depression. I have been medicated for anxiety.

Nichole: I have a substance abuse disorder. And a lot of working on that I've had to do outside of relationships so that I can show up as a person.

Nichole: And be in relation with people. That I'm not putting my bullshit on them. So, I don't know. It just, yeah.

Daniel: How about your experience dating people with forms of neurodivergence?

Daniel: Because even though you may not have dated people on the autism spectrum, sure as hell date people with ADHD. Yeah, he's

Laurel: sitting right there.

Daniel: Yeah. With his

Laurel: half drunk seltzer that he already forgot about. I

Daniel: actually looked down at the table to see if there was a half drunk seltzer when he said that.

Daniel: What are the challenges that you've experienced in working with those tendencies , in relation to me, as Stubert asked.

Daniel: What are the goodies?

Laurel: Daniel's just fishing for compliments. How

Daniel: do you find my ADHD attractive?

Nichole: I it's,

Daniel: she's stumped.

Nichole: No, I'm not because I'm trying to divorce it from us living together because that is different. Like dating and living together are two separate things. And so your ADHD

Nichole: I see it on a daily basis because we live together. I don't necessarily see it in my other partners who have ADHD. I would say that

Nichole: a challenge is Not, sometimes um,

Daniel: let her

Daniel: rip, bring it up, bring it on. Is it the seltzers? No, it's the socks.

Nichole: It's not,

Daniel: Every ADHD person or person who is dates an ADHD person. As soon as I said the socks, they were like, Oh, the socks.

Nichole: I could be glib about it. But I don't experience this with any, with other partners that have ADHD, sometimes.

Nichole: It's difficult to get you in conversation. Like you'll be looking at your phone or you will literally stand up and walk away in the middle of me talking. Like I try really hard to get you in conversation and I don't get, I often like there is a pause and I go.

Nichole: You know, And like, you don't respond because you haven't been listening to me. And I like, that's difficult. That's tough. And I think that when you are on dates or when we're out in public together you bring your A game and it's really fun to be in conversation with you and relation with you because you, We can bounce from topic to topic.

Daniel: Yeah,

Nichole: but you are intentionally focusing on having a conversation with me or being in a relationship with me. And I think it just defaults to a different dynamic at home.

Daniel: Yeah. I'm a real asshole at home. I think it's like when I think of these situations out and about where it's I can there's enough chaos.

Daniel: Injected into the situation where I can make sense of things There's you know, even if it's just you and me there's things that are coming at us And so my adhd is like naturally stimulated enough to the point where I can reconstitute a coherent stream of reality

Yeah

Daniel: So yeah, when are we gonna get to the goodie part?

Daniel: Was there oh wait, that was the good that was the when I'm out and about, when I'm the star of the show and prancing about a table, dancing, when I'm doing coyote ugly dances.

Nichole: On the bar top. Oh, that's my favorite. When you show the goodies.

Laurel: But I think on the goodies, the joyful side of that, both just in, in non nesting partnerships and in nesting partnerships, there is there is a certain amount of that novelty aspect where you have people in your life that become intensely interested in new things and teach you about them,

Laurel: and there are things that I have tried or do that I now have an interest in pole dancing or a lot of the like, craft and fiber art stuff that I've been doing have, in some way or another, been a result of my partners and people around me who are, like, jazzed by new things and have also Allowed me the grace as well to be jazzed and interested in new things and just go and do that stuff and Overcommit to a new hobby.

Nichole: I think that big benefit of Dating somebody who identifies as neurodivergent Is that person has already done some level of introspection and they can speak to where they're at and most often they can ask for what they need. So I will say, Daniel, you definitely ask for what you need.

Nichole: And we have had many conversations where you are explicitly asking for what you need because you know what it is that you need. Because you've done the self work. I was having this conversation with this person last night at the party that we were at, about neurodivergence and polyamory. And I did say like, yeah, I think a lot of neurodivergent people exist in polyamorous spaces.

Nichole: And I think it's partly because of the amount of work it takes to be a polyamorous person. It's if you're. If you identify as neurodivergent, it is implied that you have gone and gotten a diagnosis, which means you have talked to a professional, which means you know some of what they are talking about to you about your own neurodivergence.

Nichole: So you've done, you've taken the steps to do some introspection and self work. And that is a huge part of polyamory.

Laurel: , in general, it is also really interesting to see how other people process the world differently and process information differently. And I think it is really, it's an incredibly eye opening opportunity to then look at the way that you process the world.

Laurel: Because we often take for granted that our intake and output processes are just status quo. And when you really get insight into how that can look wildly different for other people, you get to reexamine how you interact with the world. You get to reexamine how you interact with other people.

Laurel: And so it's just I don't know. It's just an opportunity for a new lens. It's like a new way that you can. Watch the world through the eyes of a different director or whatever. So that's a cool goodie. It's a

Nichole: neat goodie.

Daniel: And now I just want to watch more cinema with the, uh, idea that I'm just looking through the lens of somebody else's neurodivergence.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of it. That's kind of it.

Daniel: All right. Shall we move along to. Polly Mindfuck?

Song: It's like a game of telephone, with plenty of feedback. Invited three horses, got only one pizza. Ya balls on ya face, ya got self feedbacked. We're gettin the popcorn, and leanin our seat back. Can't blame ya partners, it sure wasn't Rhyme Lock. You are the author of this poly MINDFUL!

Daniel: Oh, yeah.

Laurel: Speaking of neurodivergence.

Laurel: Yeah. Actually rolling in off of the like,, taking for granted that the way that you process. information is the status quo. Also, there are times in your life where you realize how wildly different you process the world and things that are happening around you. And that can be very isolating. I did just like an absolutely crazy thing.

Laurel: Just absolutely batshit thing. And I went mini golfing. I went with my partner. And I was meeting his partner, so my metamor, for the first time and then she also brought a partner of hers, and we went mini golfing. My first mistake was not saying up front that I don't like to do that.

Laurel: And, to be fair to myself I feel like I've been in this era of just Like not just trying new things, but trying things that I previously was scared to do so that I can like re experience them and be like, Oh no, why did I find this scary? So I don't find mini golf scary, but I don't like it.

Laurel: And in general, I don't like playing games. And I don't mean that as a metaphor. I just mean, don't invite me to your board game night. Um, there are lots of rebel, such a rebel. Yeah.

Daniel: Poly culture. Are you sure you're poly? I

Laurel: don't belong here.

Laurel: Here's the thing, like there are caveats to this. Like I actually, I used to flat out just be like, I hate games. Like I hate playing games. Don't take me to play your games. What I really don't like is meeting new people under constructed context, like playing games or in competition where the idea is like this is going to take the pressure off the conversation and I think that's why people do things like mini golf on first dates or have game nights or whatever.

Laurel: It takes the pressure off people having to like constantly engage with each other. And I'm the type of neurodivergent that wants to intensely engage with you to get to know you.

Yeah.

Laurel: And so when I was in the situation of trying to get to know two people, one of which is like very important to my partner.

Laurel: And then having this pretense of playing a game I didn't like it and We are going through this whole thing, and I think I really should confer and make sure, but everyone had a wonderful time. And I think that I presented that I had a wonderful time, and I think I kept up, but I was so profoundly miserable.

Laurel: And felt so trapped and some of it is hearkening back to some other like negative experiences that I've had in my life of trying to fit in and maintain relationships with people. That I didn't feel connected to in situations that made, didn't feel conducive to connection. And I had a really bad night.

Laurel: I

Nichole: mean you say that you think you presented as being okay I would not be able to do that if I had the level of misery that you are describing. There is no fu and I would bring everyone fucking down. I would be, oh god, I'd be such a cunt and I've done that, I've done that. And I'm

Laurel: sorry, Daniel.

Laurel: I have also done that. And I was having this weird dissonance between seeing myself there and seeing my behavior and the ways that I think I was acting and trying to still be like I'm here and we're having fun. And also feeling deeply disconnected from the moment. And here is a weird thing that I have not figured out yet, but like, I don't know what the right thing to do was, and I told myself in that moment the right thing to do was just play it out, and just be happy and have a good time, and, cause I know it was like, very important to the people who were there to have fun.

Laurel: A good time And so I was definitely putting a lot of pressure on myself to be like, no, make it okay.

Laurel: Which probably made things worse for myself, . But I don't know if I had stopped in that moment and been like, I hate this. Or like pulled my partner aside and been like, I am having a miserable fucking time and I just need to dip.

Laurel: I would have also beat the shit out of myself for that. So I don't know that there was a win for me in that situation. And so I was like well, at least I can provide a win for everybody else.

Daniel: I think that you've already done some good processing around it.

Yeah.

Daniel: Because I think when it first happened, I think you were more like God, I was so bored, right? And you weren't sure whether it was you were a little bit freaked out whether it was about the people involved, but I think that now you're like, A little bit clearer about that the situation itself was what was flattening and boring and sensory depriving .

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. And, I think that I think people just need to realize that there are limits to the ethical part of ethical non monogamy and mini golf. Yes,

Laurel: clearly no one ever mini golf.

Daniel: Don't force somebody into mini golf without their enthusiastic consent.

Nichole: I, I mean that Laurel, that's what you were saying at the top. Is that I shouldn't have said yes to this.

Laurel: So here's the thing is I know like when it was suggested, I remember the pause, like I remember the pause that I took and then decided to be like, yeah, that sounds fun. I took a pause and decided to lie.

Laurel: And I think there was a part of me that truly believed that like I could go in that situation and have a Good time, and I think

Nichole: yeah, I mean because it's mini golf. It's like supposed to be fun It's supposed to be fun. People like this.

Nichole: Of course you would think like, yeah, I can go into this and do this It's literal game.

Laurel: I've joked about this in like conversations that I've had with Daniel and also like I talked to my other partner about this in depth

Laurel: and like there was a lot of jokes about mini golf being triggering for me. And a lot of jokes about certain quote unquote normal activities being very. triggering for me. And I like I'm laughing about it now, but I was sobbing about it then

Daniel: You also really wanted to get to know these people and you were deprived of your ability to do that and you go into the like situations like you were an extremely connective and curious person and so you go into this situation and like I think you came out of it not really knowing these two people who you wanted to get to know, and so now, I think you were catastrophizing right after the fact.

Daniel: Yes. But really you had just a dearth of information. It's like if you went to a twister party. You would learn more at a twister party. Oh, yeah.

Nichole: You'd be physically closer to

Laurel: that party. Yeah. We should have played Twister. That was, ah, fuck. I should have suggested that. Is that the

Nichole: one game that you'll

Laurel: play?

Laurel: Yeah, I'll play that.

Nichole: Cause

Daniel: it involves contact. So you do like contact improv is what you're saying. In the, In the polyamorous. Oh uh, Normie Corner real quick.

Song: I said, all the cool kids with the real sick perm they go to Nor corner. Nor corner. That's where we define our basic glossary of terms down at nor corner nor corner.

Daniel: Doopity doopity Doopity doop. Um. Are you going to explain contact improv? I'm going to explain the five. That polyamorists uh, supposedly enjoy.

Daniel: Yeah. They are. Contact improv. Which is kind of rolling over somebody and making funny faces. Precisely. Blues dancing uh, Dungeons and Dragons. And maybe we just put tabletop games in general. All together? Yeah. Burning Man. I committed to five before I had actually five. I know. I was like, where are you going with this?

Daniel: Cause yeah. What was

Laurel: the fifth one?

Nichole: Oh, Star

Daniel: Trek. No? Wishful thinking?

Nichole: I think that's a little wishful thinking. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. I'm just trying to be at home in this culture.

Nichole: You just want more people to come to our Star Trek night.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Are we backing out of normie corner now? Are we done? Yes. Are we done? Yeah.

Nichole: Is that it? That's a wrap? That's it. For the episode?

Laurel: No.

Nichole: Oh.

Daniel: There's some wishful thinking.

Nichole: Sorry, I'm getting hungry.

Laurel: Oh, that's fair. Anyways, yeah, so that was really crazy I just fucking flipped out over mini golf.

Laurel: It's just so embarrassing. It is so

Laurel: embarrassing.

Daniel: I don't blame you for not sharing the most important part. Are you passed out in the windmill?

Laurel: I actually, they left me there. They took, I was so benign of an experience that they left me in the windmill. Nobody remembered I was even there. Your mouth became the final hole.

Daniel: That's actually what I call Laurel's mouth.

Laurel: The final hole. God.

Laurel: Okay, that's the end.

Song: This has been Polyamateur Hour, a production of Risa Records. If you have a question for Ask the Amateurs, or a recommendation for Is This Poly, please email us at polyamateurhour at gmail dot com. If you enjoyed the show, and you know you did, you perv, please subscribe to us on your podcatcher of choice, leave us a five star review, and most importantly, tell at least one person in your life to check us out.

Song: But we hope you tell three. Remember, the advice given by the amateurs should not be followed. Unless you are prepared to be ecstatically happy, successful, and strange. Until next time!