Nichole: Is it annoying to be around my brother and I?

Laurel: God, yes. It's just a constant reminder that I'm not your sister.

Daniel: I, I think the idea that you guys have some kind of, like, special comedy team duo thing, that's more annoying than actually being around you as a comedy team duo.

Laurel: What?

Nichole: Wow.

Laurel: What? Like, you're annoyed that Nicole is conscious of her bond with her brother? Wow. You don't, you don't want her to be self-aware of this?

Nichole: He's f- he finds us insufferable. But not us, just the idea of us.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like, uh... I feel like it's a humble brag to be like, "Is it annoying to be around me and my brother?" Because it's like-

Nichole: No, it's

Daniel: a- ... we're so-

Nichole: It's a genuine- ...

Daniel: jazzy.

Nichole: No, no, no, no, no. Jazz hands. It's a genuine question because we are telling each other jokes that only we get.

Laurel: and then they're like, "Remember the kitchen that mom remodeled?" "No, dad wanted it more." And you're like, "I don't fucking know."

Nichole: that's what I'm talking about.

Daniel: Yeah. I follow that stuff completely with the context clues. Honestly, when it's just you, you tell yourself jokes that we don't get- more often, but you just tell them aloud.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: When your brother is with you, you're aware that you have a Vaudeville audience, and so you do the setup. You go through the setup of the joke. Yeah. When it's, when it's just you, it's like, you enact a scene from an Elvis movie and then move on.

Laurel: No, I don't find it annoying, but maybe if it was, like, a week straight.

Nichole: I understand.

Laurel: And I was just like, "I don't get anything. I feel so dumb."

Nichole: Yeah, see, that, that's what I'm wondering. Like,

Laurel: is it exclusive? Yeah. That, it might, it might get that way eventually- Yeah ... but I would need more time, I think.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I know that me and my sister together are annoying, just simply because she does a really good job of, like, pulling me into judgy mode because, okay, it's like the only way to evade judgment from my sister is to join her in the judging perspective. Uh-huh. Mm. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so I just immediately, like when I see her do this little squint thing- Hmm ... it's the squint that goes with that sound- Mm ... then I know that I, like, have to get with her in order to, like, protect myself.

Laurel: Yes. It's time to judge.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: Who's our victim today? To keep me out of the crosshairs. Wow. I get it. It's a survival tactic. That's fine ...

Daniel: what do they call it in the movies? Is it a Mexican standoff? I know that's racist, but, like, when everybody has a gun pointed at- Yeah ... somebody else.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I think that's called the Spiderman. That's when everybody is identical and doing that.

Daniel: And just pointing at

Nichole: each

Daniel: other. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. but that's what my household was like growing up, right? Is like everybody's got the, like, gun of judgment pointed at somebody else. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And just nobody move.

Nichole: Well, you know, when you make finger guns, there are three fingers pointing back at you.

Laurel: Oh.

Nichole: When you make the finger gun of judgment.

Laurel: Yeah. Unless you really curl your fingers in, and then they can be pointing off to your left or right.

Daniel: is the, is the finger gun the pointing gesture of judgment? I don't know that it is. Like, finger guns are, like, fun time-

Laurel: Are like, "I'm gay."

Daniel: Yeah. Yes. But that does announce that you're going to get judgy once you announce that you're gay. But I feel like the judgy pointer is like, uh, it's like what I do when I'm, when I'm angry. When you're angry. When I'm angry. Yeah. Is this, is this a finger gun? Maybe. This is like-

Laurel: It's the same gesture, it's just turned like you're gonna cap a-

Nichole: Excuse

Laurel: me? ... sucker.

Nichole: Okay.

Laurel: You know, like how gangsters hold guns in movies sideways- Mm ... which is not a good way to fire a weapon.

Daniel: Yeah. But if you have two of them , it looks good, right?

Laurel: Yeah, it looks cool as fuck- Yeah ... but-

Nichole: Yeah, you look really scary.

Daniel: Kids, don't play with guns even though they look cool as fuck.

Laurel: Yeah. And cigarettes, they're bad for you. Yeah.

Daniel: They you, unless you have two of them, in which case- again- Cool

Laurel: as fuck ... cool

Daniel: as

Laurel: fuck.

Daniel: Welcome to Polyamature Hour.

Laurel: I'm Laurel.

Nichole: I'm Nicole.

Daniel: I'm Daniel.

Laurel: And we're here to teach you how to smoke.

Daniel: How old were you... you when you first smoked a cigarette? I should not look at Laurel 'cause Laurel never really smoked.

Nichole: Never really smoked or has never smoked?

Laurel: I have smoked a cigarette before.

Nichole: Une cigarette?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Was it in your adulthood or were you-

Laurel: I was in college and I was drunk.

Daniel: Nicole- What? ... when did you start your slippery slope? Was it after you got sober? Was this a- Third grade ... was this like a

Nichole: Yeah, I mean, it was, it was like... I remember buying a pack or two in college.

Daniel: Uh-huh.

Nichole: And then I didn't touch a cigarette for years, and then I got sober when I was 25. And everybody Was smoking, so. Yeah.

Daniel: I moved into, like, the basement that my sister had vacated- Mm-hmm previously, and, like, found a pack of her Camel Straights that she- Mm-hmm ... had left there, also probably a failed experiment on her part. And I remember just, like-

Laurel: Being straight?

Daniel: Yeah, it turned me straight. Luckily it wore off.

Laurel: Woo.

Daniel: so I remember just, like, taking a few puffs and then just, like, lying down on the floor completely. Like, a Camel Straight is a terrible way to start smoking.

Nichole: I don't even know what Camel Straights are.

Laurel: Yeah, what is that? Like, an American Spirit? What is it? No filter. Ew. Ugh. Yeah. To start smoking that way? Yes, in a, in a basement. Um- Ugh ... I think it was with a pack that you found, you have no idea how old it is, and it's in, like, the dingy bathroom of a '70s basement. Wow. And that's fucking cool. This is our new segment. Fucking cool. Fucking cool.

Nichole: What is our first segment?

Daniel: You know what else is fucking cool?

Nichole: What?

Daniel: God. So I think that it's time Yes ... that we, that we all linked hands and, you know- Mm-hmm ... had a l- had a little discussion about God and polyamory with a poly in public Invasion of privivacy. I mean, who is the greatest invader of privivacy? God.

Nichole: God.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. Second only to Jesus.

Daniel: Yeah, but God is like non-human- ... so it's less pervy than when Jesus is watching.

Laurel: It's very pervy.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Well, it's just, I feel like they always say like, "Leave room for Jesus," when they're like-

Laurel: Yeah, when

Nichole: you're dancing telling teenagers not to dance close to each other.

Daniel: Oh, yeah. I was thinking that like Jesus is watching you masturbate, and like that being creepier than like a, a formless God- Yeah ... like, 'cause you, you're like, l- there's a guy in sandals, robe,

Laurel: and a beard. Well, also, like he has a human form, so theoretically he could get an erection.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: Whereas God decidedly cannot get an erection.

Daniel: We are God's erection.

Nichole: wait, but isn't Jesus like supposed to be God, but he's also the Son of God, but he's also God? Yeah. Who's the Holy Ghost? How does this work?

Daniel: It's, it's a Spider-Man situation. Yeah. They're all pointing at each other.

Laurel: So what, what was this, uh, what was this pit by up?

Daniel: So we got some Presbyterian news.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Tell us about the Presbyterians.

Nichole: So interesting. We've covered the Catholics

Daniel: We're, we're always covering the Jews.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Sometimes we're exposing the Jews.

Daniel: Oh, like-

Laurel: Ourselves.

Daniel: Yeah. Okay. Like you were porky pigging

Laurel: it? Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. We're... I thought, I thought you meant, you know, we were revealing the conspiracy.

Laurel: We do that too sometimes.

Daniel: But it's, again, ours.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: I still have a little... I'm still a little eked out by that lizard party that you're going to.

Laurel: I, I- Yes ... A, number one, I'm not going to this lizard party. Okay. I'm not, I'm, I'm not invited to this lizard party.

Nichole: Oh,

Laurel: Uh, for Stu Bert's I started seeing this person He told me that his friends are having a, uh, a glamorous, some kind of glamorous lizard themed party. And immediately, uh, both Nicole and I were like, "Is this anti-Semitic?" But also, since I like the cosplay stuff, I was like, "Oh, how can you like, you know, make some lizard scales and stuff on your body?" So I was looking up a lot of information about this.

Daniel: Yeah. How can you make lizards sexy? And take back the lizard people conspiracy theory, and really own it, and be like, "I am Jewess. I am sexy lizard lady."

Nichole: So maybe you should, you should sneak in there and like... No one's gonna know who you are anyway, 'cause you're gonna be covered in lizard paint.

Laurel: This is true.

Daniel: I would recognize her.

Laurel: Is that, wait, is that a Jew conspiracy theory joke or is that like a I recognize Laurel in anything joke?

Daniel: I, uh, porque no los dos.

Laurel: Okay.

Daniel: So how how 'bout this pipaya?

Nichole: Sorry.

Daniel: All right. So Long story short, there's a proposal within the Presbyterian Church-

Nichole: Mm-hmm ...

Daniel: to ban polyamory among clergy or require-

Nichole: Require cur- clergy to be monogamous ...

Daniel: and they were going to vote on this, and then it was delayed because there was a big, big pushback in the church.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And they were saying, oh, this is just another way to target LGBTQI populations. Mm-hmm. And it is another way to kind of r- reach around to do a rollback- Mm-hmm ... rather than just taking it head-on. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: I, my first question is, are there polyamorous clergy people?

Daniel: I don't know. Is this a straw man argument? Like, are they doing this just in order to- Like,

Nichole: they start with the clergy and then it branches out to, the congregation- Mm-hmm and then...

Laurel: Yeah. Who knows? From the article that I read, It sounded like there was just some, some unfortunate zoomer who was like, "I've gotta MAGA-fy Presbyterianism- Mm ... and pull it out of the 21st century- Mm-hmm ., And make a stink about something."

Daniel: What is his handle again? ' Cause it has zoomer in the fucking handle, like, which is a hell of a unfortunate flex.

Laurel: He posts under the name Redeemed Zoomer. Ah. Yeah, it doesn't, like, say that he's pointed to any specific clergy.

Nichole: Hmm. I guess in the Presbyterian Church, if you are a member of the church, you can bring up an issue, and then the church organization can vote on it.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. Huh.

Daniel: Favorite Muppet? And then you have to have a vote , like...

Nichole: Okay, so people had a backlash, so they decided to delay it, and then do some more research?

Daniel: I think that it's probably just going to get pushed to the wayside. It doesn't sound like it's gained traction.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And the Presbyterians, God bless them, f- sounds like they do not think that it's necessary.

Laurel: Right, yeah. I guess they do currently require, pastoral epistles to have one wife. And so-

Daniel: But, but it's, like, at least one wife.

Laurel: Well, well, it says it rules out polygyny, but not polyamory.

Nichole: Well, so does the United States government.

Laurel: Yes, this is true.

Nichole: So that's also not something that they need to necessarily

Laurel: vote

Nichole: on. Yeah.

Laurel: it says, this is, it's a little confusing. The pastoral epistles require church leaders, parenthetical, who are assumed to be male-

Nichole: Okay

Laurel: to have one wife.

Nichole: you're required to be married.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: That's wild.

Laurel: Isn't it?

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: , But in this, , specific article that you found, Nicole, it's kind of like an op-ed in favor of polyamory- Mm ... or at least in not bothering with having vote on column 10. first they seem to place a lot of, , importance on the rights of private judgment-

Nichole: Hmm ...

Laurel: that are universal and unalienable. That's what- So that-

Daniel: That's what me and my sister do.

Laurel: Yeah. 'Cause God alone is Lord of the conscious.

Nichole: Okay. Only God can judge?

Laurel: Yeah. I like these little couple of paragraphs. " The mononormative conception of romantic love is conspicuously out of step with the Christian conception of God's love." Hmm. Hmm. "According to the Bible and Christian tradition, God's love is not a scarce resource, but an infinitely abundant good that only increases as it is shared. The Westminster Confession of Faith refers to God's infinite and perfect love. God's bestowal of grace upon one person does not lessen it for others. Mononormativity, like heteronormativity, is also a hierarchical structure of power that excludes some from the circle of social respectability. unlike compulsory monogamy, embracing polyamory does not require anyone to be polyamorous. As documents like the Confession of Belhar clearly indicate, inclusion, not exclusion, is more reflective of the Presbyterian Church's vision of God's liberating justice."

Daniel: Wow.

Nichole: Wow.

Daniel: So he's saying not only is God, like, non-hierarchically poly- He's also saying that God is kind of a slut. Like, and Since anybody has access to God, God is also free use.

Nichole: Oh, boy. Oh, you put that on a recording.

Laurel: Wow.

Nichole: Ooh.

Laurel: Wow. Ooh.

Daniel: I think that this is... I think it's very sweet. I think it's a, an important theological distinction.

Laurel: God is an abundant slut.

Nichole: That's gonna be a song, isn't it?

Daniel: God- Oops, God is stuck in the dryer. Oh,

Laurel: no. Oh, God.

Nichole: I don't get that.

Laurel: you know, free-use porn. You know, Daniel talks about this all the time.

Nichole: Does

Laurel: he? You know, like a woman gets stuck in a, the dryer, and then someone finds her and bones her 'cause she's stuck in the dryer.

Nichole: What are you talking about?

Laurel: He talks about this constantly.

Nichole: On the podcast?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: After we record the podcast, I hold up the little Men in Black light- ... and you forget everything that we've talked about.

Nichole: I have never heard you say, "Woman stuck in a dryer," ever.

Daniel: You just don't listen to me that much. That's

Nichole: fine. But I also have no idea what you're talking about. How do you get stuck in a dryer?

Laurel: You don't. It's, like, a porn trope.

Daniel: Yeah, it's a porn trope.

Nichole: How do they explain stuck in a dryer? I

Daniel: don't

Laurel: know.

Daniel: Th- Th- this is why this particular form of porn, of free-use porn, doesn't actually turn me on, is because I can't reach the suspension of disbelief required to believe that somebody is stuck in a dryer. \ "

Nichole: This is common?

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Like, there are multiple videos of a woman stuck in a dryer?

Laurel: It's a whole category on Pornhub. What? I'm just kidding. Yeah. It's not. It's

Daniel: very easy to find, though. It's everywhere. But, uh, it's really only super common among Presbyterians.

Laurel: Presbyterian woman stuck in dryer.

Nichole: If we have any Presbyterians, Stuart- ... goodbye. But also, um, I am curious if there is talk amongst your congregation. Is that what they call it, a congregation?

Daniel: Polycule.

Nichole: I'm just curious, like are, what- Yeah ... are people saying things?

Laurel: Yes. Anyone actually talking about this, or is this, like, two people online arguing with each other?

Daniel: I, yeah, I think it's just the guy who was trying to ban it and this guy who is like, "'Godslut- Mm-hmm ... is my new musical."

Laurel: Godslut.

Daniel: Um- That one, that was for Nicole.

Laurel: Wait, is this an inside joke I don't get?

Daniel: It's a musical theater joke.

Laurel: Godspell? Yeah, I don't get it.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Day by day. Day by day.

Daniel: Wait, it's about a bidet? Yeah. It's...

Nichole: That's Wet Hot American Summer. Everybody ignore me.

Daniel: I just wanted to give you the chance to demonstrate the Nicole makes jokes for herself that- ... nobody else gets trope that we've established. I

Nichole: have to entertain myself. Do you know how boring straight men are?

Laurel: I thought you were gonna say, "Do you know how boring you guys are?"

Daniel: So, hey, I'm glad that people are talking about polyamory in all these religious circles, right?

Laurel: I'm glad that the Presbyterians seem to n- like, think this is dumb- Yeah ... by and large. Yeah. I'm glad that there's- Fingers

Nichole: crossed. I hope so.

Laurel: Yeah. I'm glad that there's at least one guy out there writing op-eds on some Presbyterian website about God's infinite love and, an expansive interpretation of religion rather than an exclusive one. Hoo-wee.

Nichole: Wow. Yikes. Ooh. Sours. Sour? You made a face right after you said

Daniel: that. It escaped my mouth, and I needed to swallow it again. Oh, my God. Well, what's up next?

Laurel: Do we have a little Ask the Amateurs?

Nichole: Ooh, yes. May I read the question?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I like reading questions.

Laurel: Can you give it to Nicole

Nichole: Can-

Daniel: Ha- happily.

Laurel: I'm sorry. Let

Nichole: me go

Daniel: get- Happily ...

Nichole: stuck in a dryer.

Laurel: But you really gotta sell it, otherwise Daniel's not into it.

Nichole: Oh, no, I'm stuck in a dryer. Help

Laurel: me.

Nichole: Yeah, see, if I was actually stuck in a dryer- ... I probably would sound like that. Okay Hi, friends. I often find myself able to find more forgiveness for a non-nesting partner, and when I notice myself doing this, feel conflicted and a bit shameful about it. Upon reflection, it seems to stem from the fact that a nesting partner's actions directly impact me while a non-nesting partner's don't in the same way. How do you approach these kinds of things, and any suggestions given the almost total lack of context? Thanks as always.

Laurel: So what's interesting is I do think I remember listening to a Multiamory episode that was about, , how we hold space for friendships and romantic relationships differently. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I remember at the time listening and being like, "Oh, yeah, I totally do that," but now that I'm, like, more of an RA practitioner, I cannot remember which way it went in that conversation. Mm-hmm. Like, I can't remember if it was like we're more forgiving of romance than we are of our just our platonic relationships, or if it was the other way around.

Nichole: Total- like, my first thought was like, oh, yeah, I'm definitely more forgiving of my friends. No, I'm not. Yeah. No, I'm not. Am... I'm more forgiving of my part... No, I'm not. Oh, right, yeah.

Daniel: You're, you're a special case. You are forgiving of no one. I think in general people are usually more forgiving of their friends.

Laurel: Yeah. I let my friends cheat on me all the time.

Daniel: With other friends?

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: With other- You

Laurel: naughty ...

Daniel: with Jesus. Um, I don't know why I'm, like, touching my nipple. I mean, we definitely I think understand the like, nesting superciliousness.

Nichole: Uh-huh.

Laurel: Is that a type of mushroom?

Daniel: It's, it's the kind that I'm microdosing all the time. You know, You know? Like, our tendency to roll our eyes at each other, it's much stronger. but I think we experience that, like-

Nichole: You and I, Daniel?

Daniel: Yes.

Nichole: Yeah. Like, I think that there is trespasses and forgiveness, and then I think there's, like, the acceptance of everyday things that happen with your nesting partner-

Daniel: Yes ...

Nichole: that you just kind of live with because you literally live with that person.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: But I think that you'd be more, like, for instance, forgiving and accepting of people's ADHD whom you do not live with.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: Well, that makes total practical sense because if there is a manifestation of ADHD like yours, which is leaving socks around the house, not my house.

Daniel: Yeah, unless your friends come over and leave their socks in certain places, which I do at Laurel's house.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: You

Laurel: know? This is true.

Nichole: Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Laurel: yeah. Um, yeah, and I think that Stuart was also saying, like, yeah, there's some things that just practically impact me more just as a result of living with a person.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And I do think, like, there have been, , like, relationships that I've had that I had to, like, deescalate from living situations 'cause we were, like, not compatible- Mm-hmm and it was, like, causing a lot of strife in the relationship. there's something to that where you're just, like, you're spending more time, you have more passive time with a person. There are things that are just more of an immediate impact- Mm-hmm ... to you- Mm-hmm that you can't escape- Mm-hmm ... because it's in your living space, and so your reactions to that are, like, magnified. But those do tend to be- More like logistical, practical things like cleaning up- Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Yeah ...

Laurel: after oneself. I'm trying to imagine a poly situation to apply this to where it would be like logistically kind of equal.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. I'm trying to figure out if there's a thing that happens across partnerships-

Laurel: Right ...

Nichole: in both nesting and non-nesting situations where I would react differently.

Laurel: Right.

Nichole: This actually happened the other night. Daniel and I had plans. He forgot that we had plans- Mm-hmm ... and he made plans with another partner.

Laurel: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Right? And if that happened with a partner outside of my nesting partnership-

Laurel: Mm-hmm ...

Nichole: that reaction and conversation is different.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Nichole: Cause when I think of, like, trespasses and forgiveness-

Laurel: Mm-hmm ...

Nichole: I think I do have a threshold.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: And, like, once that threshold is reached, then-

Daniel: Murder.

Laurel: No, you're, you're, you're dead.

Nichole: Um. But, de-escalating from a nesting partner is different from de-escalating or breaking up with somebody who is... you're not nesting with. Yes, yes. That's blowing up your entire life.

Laurel: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Right? And so I think you're more... Just practically, I think I'm probably more apt to practice forgiveness and work through shit with somebody that I'm living with-

Laurel: Mm-hmm ...

Nichole: rather than something I, somebody I'm not living with.

Laurel: Oh, interesting. So you're having, like, an opposite reaction to this speaker. I

Nichole: am absolutely having an opposite reaction, yes.

Laurel: It's interesting 'cause I was thinking about that, like, hypothetical situation, and, like, I don't live with a partner currently, not yet. Not yet. But I was like, If someone forgot a date and scheduled something else with another person, I think I would be more annoyed with the person I didn't live with.

Nichole: Me too.

Laurel: Not just because it's a relationship that is easier to de-escalate, but because I'm like, "Oh, I see you all the fucking time. It's okay." Like, of course you would forget. Like, we're always just in this, like- Yeah ... come and go.

Daniel: This is why I brought up, like, the ADHD thing, because I feel like the kinds of things that one has trouble accepting in a nesting partner are these, like, kind of everyday foibly kind of things. Yeah. Right? They start to, really itch 'cause it's irritating the same spot over and over again in the same way.

Laurel: Right.

Daniel: And so, like, it's almost like when we were talking about finances the other day.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Right?

Laurel: Uh-huh.

Daniel: When you were saying, "Okay, well, since your finances are not entangled, that allows you to not care as much-

Laurel: Yes, yeah

Daniel: about what somebody's doing with their- Right ... money." I think when you don't live with somebody, it's like your practical space and time is not entangled as much, and so it's easy to accept certain things. I think that you've accepted certain things with non-nesting partners in the past for longer than you accepted them with nesting partners. Yes. For instance, um, I'm thinking of Ketamine Ken.

Laurel: Uh-huh.

Daniel: Like, both the substance stuff and his, , fun time gun locker, right? Like- Like, you accepted these- I

Laurel: never, I never saw him hold them sideways. It was safe. '

Daniel: he pointed them straight at you.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah. I was just like- And that's- ... "Oh, gay."

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: That's cool.

Daniel: Cool.

Laurel: I'm Presbyterian.

Nichole: But I think that there is a difference between something that, necessitates forgiveness and acceptance, right?

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: Like- Yeah ... your ADHD is not a trespass against me.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: And as-

Laurel: Until it is.

Nichole: Until it is. Um, but I think that that is something that's a daily practice for me of just, like, acceptance, right?

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: But I'm talking about, like, like, mistakes. Yeah. And I still think because I know how to argue with you so well, Daniel, like, I think that that takes time and intention and commitment.

Laurel: Mm.

Nichole: And No one has ever wanted to commit with me that much, so it's like, you know, I've never had the, the opportunity to, practice forgiveness, I guess, with a non-nesting partner.

Daniel: I wonder whether the term forgiveness is just used as a more general kind of energetic term here rather than a genuine transgression. Because I feel like if there were, if there was, like, a transgression here, r/Stuart would let us know. They know we want the tea, right? They, like, know

Nichole: that- Yeah, but they said, "An amazing lack of context."

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: So they know that they can't give us the tea.

Laurel: And it might be, like, like multiple things that they've observed this-

Nichole: But Stuart, you could- ... as, like, a

Laurel: pattern ...

Nichole: you could always just, like, email us the tea, or submit it anonymously and we won't read it. Just so you can, like, get it off your chest. Like, if you need, like- Ooh, yeah ... a confessional.

Laurel: Yeah. But just make sure you just put, "Don't read this," on air-

Nichole: Yeah ...

Laurel: so we know.

Nichole: Or we will.

Laurel: Yeah. Or we definitely will.

Daniel: Unfortunately, our confessional is also a glory hole wall.

Nichole: Unfortunately?

Laurel: Yeah. That's like a- Yeah ... win-win.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Right. All

Laurel: right. A win-win-win.

Daniel: Come on in.

Nichole: I don't- Confess your sins, come on in. I can make music, too.

Laurel: Look who's in the jingle box now. There's nothing wrong with that forgiveness imbalance. . Like, Stuart is saying that they feel guilty about this.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And I think it is good to allow yourself some perspective of, imagining if the same kind of transgression or whatever occurred in a partner that you're not living with. Does that fundamentally change the context, where you cannot compare it anymore? Or is it actually a comparable thing and you realize, no, you're treating this other person differently, and why are you treating them differently? Is it other transgressions, like your relational history? Mm-hmm. Is it how much time you're spending together?

Daniel: Is it NRE?

Nichole: I

Laurel: was

Nichole: just gonna say- Is it NRE? Yeah, that's a good- ... are these relationships that are non-nesting newer?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: They're like, "I'm so in love with this person, they could murder a hobo."

Nichole: Are we allowed to say hobo? You say hobo sometimes.

Daniel: Probably not. I'm glad that now is the time when you begin to worry about what we may- ... can or cannot say.

Nichole: Okay. Did we help?

Daniel: Probably not But it was fun.

Nichole: I think we gave some perspective.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Like, , being self-aware Might make you pause a little bit and wonder what is behind the feeling less or more forgiving of certain partnerships.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Right? Like, it's not just that you have a nesting partner. It's not just that. It's- It's- Yeah ... there's something else.

Daniel: Yeah. Did you write this one, Nicole?

Nichole: No, I didn't because I feel the opposite. Yeah, it's

Laurel: opposite ways. Opposite ways.

Nichole: So I think we should do-

Laurel: Mm-hmm ...

Nichole: an Is This Poly?

Daniel: Is it for something that came out 40 years ago?

Nichole: Nope. What?

Daniel: Is it for a vintage paperback?

Nichole: Nope.

Daniel: Is it for something nobody has heard of, an obscure musician from New Zealand?

Nichole: Nope.

Daniel: Fantastic.

Laurel: Wow.

Daniel: This is really unusual for us.

Nichole: This is for the new release, The Invite.

Daniel: Yeah, I mean, like two months old by the time this comes out, but-

Nichole: By the time this comes out, yeah. Yeah. But that's, that's, that is our shortest window-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: we've ever done.

Laurel: That's great for us. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: We saw this on opening night.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yes. To

Laurel: a sold-out crowd.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: full of threesomes.

Laurel: I don't think so, actually.

Daniel: You think it was just, like, platonic triads in the audience? There were so many sets of three. I think an unusual amount of sets of three people.

Laurel: I, I think it was, like, people came with their neighbor that they're hoping to hook up with. Oh my God. And they're like, "Maybe this will set the tone." 'Cause, okay, what stands out to me about our experience of seeing this film were the few moments where it was just the three of us laughing hysterically. And that tells me that there were some things that the rest of the audience didn't get.

Daniel: Hmm. Or that just you and Nicole are incredibly volume unregulated

Laurel: laughers. What? What? What? What? What?

Nichole: So Olivia Wilde's latest movie, The Invite, is about two couples, four people. Um, you have the married couple, Angela and Joe.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: And then you have their upstairs neighbors, Hawk and Pina.

Daniel: It starts really focusing on Joe and Angela, right? Yeah. Where Joe is biking home with a bad back on one of those admittedly obnoxious, , collapsible bikes.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. , And Angela is getting the house ready for dinner in a very obnoxiously Dwell magazine type of way.

Laurel: Mm, yeah, that's a good description. and Joe is struggling.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Joe is not having a good time, and Angela is very focused on making everything just right.

Daniel: When Joe gets home, Angela is saying to him that she told him about the dinner, and he has just forgotten, and that felt very familiar to me.

Nichole: Okay. we find out through the course of their getting ready for these two neighbors to stop by for dinner, that Joe and Angela, hear Pina and Hawk have sex all the time. So Hawk and Pina show up, right?

Daniel: It's clear that Joe and Angela are having a fight at that time. Yeah. And they're like, " and Joe keeps kind of like threatening to bring up the loud sex.

Nichole: Angela is terrified that he's going to bring up the loud sex- Yeah ... because she's like, "Don't embarrass us."

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: , So for whatever reason, Angela decides that making a souffle is a good idea. , Opens the oven, finds the souffle totally flattened and burned, just dumps the entire thing, pot and all, into the garbage.

Daniel: It turns out that Hawk will eat all of her horse doovers, but Pina is like vegan, gluten-free, just-

Nichole: And dairy-free, just all the things

Daniel: all-purpose orthorexia.

Nichole: Yeah, she can only eat olives.

Daniel: So then, , Joe says that he's going to go and enjoy a joint, and, , Pina wants to go with him, and then they kind of pair off where they're each alone together, the couples that are not married to each other.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And then they are flirting both pretty heavily- Yes ... and just having really good, like, connective times in ways that you do not see Joe and Angela connecting- Yeah. Yeah ... at all for the first half of this movie.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Or the second half.

Nichole: and Joe is becoming a little bit more relaxed. Pina is, is, you know, played by, um- a stunning Penélope Cruz, who does not look like she has aged at all.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: Oh, God, her neck was perfect. Um, so Joe is starting to relax, and then Joe and Pina come back into the room. They all kind of gather around. They decide to have tequila-

Laurel: Mm-hmm ...

Nichole: all together in the living room, and like none of them have really eaten anything. Yeah.

Laurel: They're getting drunk pretty fast. at some point, Hawk and Pina are like, " And eventually Hawk does go first, and he wants to apologize for the extremely loud sex they've been having. and, like, Joe and Angela are kind of taken aback by this, 'cause I think that the, like, threat of bringing this up was a fun game for them, but they weren't actually expecting to talk about it. Yeah. and then, eventually they're like, " And they're like- Which one of you is making this noise?"

Daniel: The growler.

Laurel: Yeah. "Who's the growler?" Yeah. And they both look at each other, and they're like, " And as the conversation kind of snowballs, they start to disclose that , And then eventually the conversation turns to, like Angela wants to know the specifics.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Like the parameters. Is there a menu? There's a menu? and as Pina and Hawk are describing their sex life eventually it turns into a conversation about how maybe they should all hook up with each other.

Laurel: And they also disclose some flirtations that have been happening between-

Nichole: Yes ...

Laurel: the parties.

Nichole: So Angela has made it a routine to walk by the open window naked-

Daniel: Mm-hmm

Nichole: every day, and she knows Hawk is watching.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: And then Pina talks about how Joe is absolutely staring at her tits- And they- ... every time they get in the elevator.

Daniel: And it's like a mutual game that they both pretend it's not happening.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: And how could you help staring at P- Penelope Cruz's tits? Yeah. You can't.

Laurel: You can't. It's, uh, it's gravity.

Nichole: They have their own gravitational pull.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: When I close my eyes at night, I just see Penelope Cruz's like, instead of the fertile void of my imagination.

Laurel: That would get, like, pretty funny-looking after a while. You know, if you say something, like, enough times, it doesn't sound right anymore? So it's- Yeah. I feel like the same thing would happen if you saw boobs constantly. Mm. Like, if you were staring at the same set of boobs for forever.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: You would e- It's- You would eventually not see them anymore, or they would just, the entire curvature of, like, space would j- they would j- it would just take on a boob shape. Mm.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: That's why he's polyamorous.

Daniel: What?

Nichole: So you don't have to stare at the same set of t-

Daniel: tits Yeah.

Nichole: For the rest of your life.

Daniel: It's for, it's for my own sanity. It's so I'm not driven mad- ... like a, like a Borges character or something- ... who's haunted by the...

Laurel: yeah. infinity of tits

Laurel: Of course, there's some anger and jealousy between Angela and Joe about these flirtations- Mm-hmm that have been happening. Mm-hmm. But also, like, a lot of flattery and intrigue- Yes ... into, okay, well maybe we could do this. But The two of them are so aggravated and frenetic that Hawk and Pina are like... yeah, the energy is weird.

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: And so Hawk and Pina are like, "Well, maybe if we split off into couples, that can, like, bring everybody down to- Yeah earth again."

Nichole: Yes. Yes. So they do. Pina and Joe are dancing to a Sade song. , And Angela and Hawk are making out in the kitchen. and then Hawk is about to go down on Angela she was like, "Do to me what you do to Pina," to make her make that sound. Yeah.

Daniel: And he takes out a kazoo, Puts it right up to her clit.

Nichole: Ow. you gonna do it again? No. Okay. Um.

Laurel: Son of a bitch.

Nichole: Okay. Penia and Joe are dancing, Angela and Hawk are hooking up, and then Joe, like, is trying to take off his clothes sexily, , and falls over and hurts his back.

Daniel: All the books fall off of his shelf- Yeah. ... and hit him on the way down. It looks, genuinely painful.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: And then he starts crawling out of the room, and, like, Hawk is trying to take care of him, and he's just like, "Fuck off. Get away. Get away from me." And he's just crawling on the ground and just yelling at everybody and,

Nichole: thus starts the third act of the movie-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: which is basically therapy.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: , They start to talk about their feelings, and then we start to talk about Angela and Joe's marriage. And Penia is a therapist, and you learn throughout this conversation that she was actually Hawk's therapist, , after his wife passed away, and he also changed his name. I can't remember what his name was. Howard?

Daniel: Yes. Howie, 'cause, uh, 'cause Joe- Oh, yeah ... makes fun of it. "Oh, Howie." "Wow."

Nichole: And he changed his name to Hawk after his wife died,

Daniel: and this is, like, disclosed, the wife's death and everything, like, in the most awkward possible way because it is, like, Joe making fun of him that he changed his name to Hawk, and like, "What's your real name?" And then he tells the story of how he renamed himself. edward Norton ad-libbed that entire speech.

Laurel: Wow.

Daniel: And not only did he ad lib that entire speech, He made sure that it was okay with Olivia Wilde and Rashida Jones. He's gonna ad lib this whole speech.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: By the way, this is also written by Rashida Jones- Yes ... and another writer. But he didn't tell them what he was gonna say.

Nichole: Oh.

Daniel: He's just like, "Is this okay that I'm gonna completely ad lib this scene and nobody is going to know what I'm gonna say?" So that he can get the sense- Yeah ... of like surprise and shock.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: , And then I imagine that, Seth Rogen probably also ad-libbed his extremely insensitive response-

Laurel: Yeah. ... Like the movie is very funny. It's also like punctuated by like intense moments of like the painful reality of Joe and Angela's poorly going relationship. Mm-hmm. , And there's a lot of sort of inside jokes about like poly or swinger folk- Mm-hmm. Yeah ... and like stereotypes about them, that are then like I think with like Edward Norton's little like ad-lib speech that are like put into a very like heartfelt context. Yeah. Mm. and like there were so many parts where, the way that Joe and Angela react to Hawk and Pina felt so real. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Felt familiar, as ha- being a poly person who has disclosed their polyamory in many contexts, like you've seen this reaction before, right?

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. And I think there were also, like, points of like, , like seeing myself in both sides-

Daniel: Mm ...

Laurel: in both couples. Mm-hmm. And, like being able to contrast between, like, oh, people who are, like, experienced and comfortable with the idea of having, like, multiple sexual partners at least, and people who are towing the line.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. And figuring out, like, is this something we want? Holy shit, it's bringing up a lot. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like, and even if it is something we want, maybe we actually aren't ready for it right now.

Daniel: And from the couple who, you know, is more experienced with it, um, I wanted to note that not only are there a lot of kind of in-jokes, Burning Man references, I think. They, they hold hands and set intention- Yeah ... before they- Yeah ... uh, pair off, you know? but also it's the first mainstream film, I think probably the first film period, that I've seen that uses the term compulsion.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: I think you're right. So what I find interesting about this movie, and the read of the movie, , is that one of the things that came out after this movie came out, right, was polyamory people saying, like influencers and, and so on, that it was the polyamorous couple that was positioned as the more healthy couple- Mm than the monogamous couple. And that's why polyamorous people were, like, so excited about it, right? Mm-hmm. They're like, "Oh, it shows, like, healthy polyamory. It shows, um, healthy non-monogamy." And I guess as a foil to monogamy, if you have only two sets of couples, sure. But I would argue that it's like I, I don't know that it necessarily shows healthy non-monogamy. I think it shows communication.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: I think it shows intention setting. I think it shows openness. I think it shows trust, but these people are living together less than a year. Like, they're in the first year of their relationship.

Laurel: Wow, judgy.

Nichole: I'm very judgy. I just, I'm just saying- Okay, um, how

Daniel: can I, how can I align my opinion with yours in order to protect myself?

Nichole: God. I mean, if they had chosen that the couple had been together for years and just recently moved in, right?

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: , I think that would be a different story.

Daniel: I personally like it better that they're not idealized, that they even show the cracks in their relationship where Pina kind of snaps at-

Nichole: Yeah

Daniel: Hawk- Yeah Yeah ... at a certain point, and, you know, really tells him about all the things that he always does. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: , And it's does not seem like a healthy moment, and that actually, um, I think that gives honestly Joe and Angela a moment of bonding in judging-

Laurel: Yeah,

Daniel: yeah ... their guests. Um, but I liked that. I liked that they kind of made fun of some of the more stereotypical aspects- Mm-hmm ... of, , polyamory, and that simultaneously they kind of respect and mock them, which is, I think, very Polyamature Hour of them.

Laurel: Thanks for taking a page from our book. You're welcome.

Nichole: I just, I think that A movie needs dramatic tension, and so deciding that the polyamorous couple is the healthy one against the monogamous couple, I just don't think that that's real.

Laurel: Maybe not, but I feel like there's a difference between healthy and perfect.

Nichole: Correct. Yes.

Laurel: And so, like, Joe and Angela's relationship is clearly not in a healthy place.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. It's clearly, like, going south, and they say this thing at the end, which I think is Perel's, like, sentiments that she brings up is that, like, And to find out if their relationship is over, go and see the damn movie. We're not- We're not gonna, we're not gonna do you like we did with Murder Bot and tell you exactly what-

Daniel: the last scene is. But it's, quite moving. Yes.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah. And I think that, whereas clearly Hawk and Pina's relationship isn't perfect, like, it does seem like they're coming from a pretty healthy place.

Nichole: I, yes, yes. , But I think that it's, like, there is a difference between somebody... a couple who have been together for more than a decade, and have a child together, and have lived in the same apartment for multiple decades, and a couple who are, like, newly with each other. I don't think it's a one-to-one.

Laurel: I mean, I haven't seen these hot takes, but I don't know if they're taking it as a comparison or just saying, like, wow, it's nice to see polyamory or non-monogamy, however you decide to define this particular relationship, presented in a positive light while you're seeing the darker side of a monogamous relationship.

Nichole: That I can get behind.

Daniel: I think were this movie made, like- 10 years ago even

Laurel: Mm-hmm

Daniel: it would be a very different story arc. And I think it plays with the expectations of that story arc, which would be that the couple who come over are just incredibly weird, like genuinely weird, and dangerous, and chaotic in a way that-

Laurel: Hmm ...

Daniel: in a way that, like, shows them an aspect of their relationship, and so they come back together because of that. That's not what happens, right? Like, if you are looking at this movie through the lens of the way that non-monogamy is traditionally treated, that's the direction that you would think it goes. Yeah. And instead, they end up being the more connected, the more thoughtful, you know?

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And they end up teaching them something about their relationship from a place of wisdom rather than a place of comparison. Mania. Yeah.

Nichole: You've convinced me.

Daniel: Whew. Finally. Is it poly?

Laurel: I don't think that Hawk and Pina's relationship is explicitly poly. I think they talk about some of the other- Mm-hmm ... partners, like the other sex partners that they have, with a lot of admiration and respect.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: But they don't necessarily talk about them as partners, as, like, romantic-

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Mm-hmm ... partners as opposed to people they have over for sex-

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yes ...

Laurel: and are friends.

Daniel: Would you like to come over for sex sometime?

Laurel: Hey, friend.

Daniel: I'm putting together a cheese plate.

Nichole: It's a good question.

Daniel: That's why we named the segment after it. Yeah,

Nichole: yeah, yeah.

Laurel: Like, my generous interpretation is that maybe they're, you know, somewhat hierarchically polyamorous, , but that they are more just kinda like hippy-dippy open relationship.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: , And so my answer is kinda like eh.

Daniel: I think they're on their way. I think what we're seeing is, like, poly in progress.

Laurel: Mm.

Daniel: And that they haven't been together for very long. I'm just assuming. I'm gonna have a head canon about where this relationship goes. Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. They're gonna come over to our house for dinner.

Laurel: Nice, nice.

Daniel: Nicole's gonna make sure the soufflé works out.

Laurel: I'm gonna show up like Kramer in the middle of it-

Daniel: But, I'm going to give this movie a pass. Is this poly piece of media? Yes, because of the degree to which it portrays aspects of polyamory where no mainstream movie has gone before. Yeah, yeah. So the inclusion of compersion-

Nichole: Yeah

Daniel: it gets a yes, it's poly from me.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Hmm.

Nichole: , I think it's very interesting that they choose to pursue neighbors.

Laurel: Mm.

Nichole: Because that would presume that that would be... It would happen more than once.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah.

Nichole: Right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and that you would have to be in close proximity with those folks.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Mm.

Nichole: , So- I think, I think you're right. I think it is poly in progress. , They're exploring the boundaries, and, like, I think that it was probably for those characters a reach for them-

Laurel: Mm-hmm ...

Nichole: to try to pursue people in their own building.

Laurel: Mm.

Daniel: Yeah. Only hookups in the building. That's the alternative title.

Laurel: Huh. There was... Like, there was moments, 'cause I think I was sitting on the end of the aisle where I was laughing so hard, and the man sitting across the aisle from me- Mm-hmm just kept turning and looking at me. Whoops.

Daniel: We were like the, like, overzealous football fans that go to, like, the soccer game. They're, like, shirtless and painted with the colors of polyamory. Yeah. And we were like, "Jo, Jo, Jo, Jo."