Nichole: I keep meaning to tell you two. Yeah. So Stubert, friend of the podcast. And friend of me.

Daniel: Do you want to be more specific?

Daniel: So at least we understand what Stubert you're talking about.

Nichole: Stubert, who sent in a voice memo question. Okay. Yeah. Who for our purposes, termed the coin. Termed the coin.

Daniel: It's time that you termed the coin.

Nichole: Coined the term. Sloppy Polly. Yeah. Sloppy Polly. Sloppy.

Daniel: . He's a gay man of a certain age, so he's got a real special, like, pronunciation of sloppy. Yeah. Sloppy. It's beautiful. It is beautiful. It's beautiful to behold.

Nichole: Yeah. , So we were talking the other day, he's like, yeah your, your podcast, what's it called again?

Nichole: Calamity Power Hour.

Song: Talkin bout love and sex and power, All our polyamateur hour.

Laurel: Wait! Okay, so I'm on my way driving over here. This is a total non sequitur.

Laurel: But I just remembered and I was really excited to tell you guys and I can't do it to myself until now. I saw a bizarro version of Daniel and Darla walking in the street. With the dog bigger than the person.

Daniel: Like a, Like a duck sized Daniel and a Daniel sized duck. It was a giant

Laurel: bearded dog. He was wearing glasses and a sport coat. No, like I, I literally, I almost rolled down the window and yelled at this person because I thought it was you, but then I realized it was a small dog, but Darla is like sleek and svelte.

Laurel: And this dog had a little curly hair. And then the Daniel was also like

Daniel: The Daniel. He's the Daniel now? The

Laurel: Daniel was like almost your outfit, exactly. But he was like tall and skinny he had like a very pointed beard.

Daniel: Evil Daniel. Yeah, he's like

Laurel: evil. Yeah.

Laurel: This

Daniel: is Mirror Universe Daniel. Yeah, Mirror

Laurel: Universe Daniel and Darla.

Clip: Something Parallel. Parallel universe. Coexisting with ours on another dimensional plane. Everything's duplicated. Almost. Another Enterprise? Spock with a beard?

Laurel: And the Darla looks like like a little teddy bear, but it's actually ferocious. I was just like, I seriously rolled down my window and was about to yell at this person. What were you going to yell? I

Nichole: don't know.

Daniel: Hey, fuck you Bizarro Daniel.

Laurel: No, I stopped myself when I realized it wasn't you because I try not to like heckle strangers. I'm not always successful, but I really try not to.

Daniel: Yeah, I feel like you're always the one hurting me not to engage with strangers. No,

Laurel: it is not to not engage. It is not to be in their way.

Laurel: I love engaging with strangers. I don't.

Daniel: I don't need to physically get in their way in order to obstruct them.

Laurel: That is true. Which is why, just pull over and then yell at them.

Daniel: Or get them to get in the car. Hey Bizarro Daniel. Get

Laurel: in the car. Hey man. Who just did that? Hey. Hey. Hey, get my car. I just want to try that

sometime.

Daniel: Laurel's being shy. That's how we met.

Daniel: Hey you, get in. I was like, I've never had my gender role so shaken up before.

Laurel: That's how I really know it's going to work out. It's really it's both an overture to a date, but also just a litmus test of is this going to work out?

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Because if you're not going to get in the car, I don't want you.

Daniel: Honestly, it is also a car full of Muppet chickens that are dancing.

Laurel: I mean, I almost like, that's one of those moments where you're like, like, I just have to do this for the story. If a car full of Muppet chickens pulled up and was like, get in. I would. Yeah. I'd have to. Yeah.

Nichole: If only to find out, are they packing like a lot of people into their car? Are they're all of their arms

Laurel: up?

Laurel: Are their arms getting

tired?

Laurel: Are they all like, Are they all head to foot, lined up, lying down in the bed of the car, and there's a black sheet over them?

Daniel: Is this a Jacob's Ladder situation? And is this the afterlife, and if I get into the uh, the Muppet Chicken car that's what takes me to the other side?

Laurel: This is how death travels. Welcome

Daniel: to Polyamateur Hour.

Laurel: I'm Laurel. Welcome to Polyamateur Hour. I'm Nicole.

Daniel: And I'm Daniel.

Laurel: Not to be confused with Bizarro. Mirror Universe Bizarro Evil Daniel.

Daniel: You don't know.

Laurel: Oh God! They've been swapped!

Clip: I don't understand is how you were able to identify our counterparts so quickly. It was far easier for you, as civilized men, to behave like barbarians, than it was for them, as barbarians, to behave like civilized men.

Laurel: I need the, we all need a pod person question for each other.

Laurel: So that we know if we've been swapped out.

Nicole, how does it feel to be so wild and crazy?

Daniel: Daniel, do you believe that you look six feet tall in a photo without a banana for scale?

Laurel: Laurel.

Daniel: Oh. Laura, we're starting with a poly mind fuck

Daniel: It's like a game of telephone, with plenty of feedback. Invited three horses, got only one pizza. Ya balls on ya face, ya got self feedbacked. We're gettin the popcorn, and leanin our seat back. Can't blame ya partners, it sure wasn't Rhyme Lock. You are the author of this poly MINDFUL!

Laurel: Yeah, I'm a good one. I got permission from my partner Derek to share it. I'm gonna read you a text thread between the two of us. I actually took a screencap of the text thread, and then I annotated it with what each of us were thinking, because we had this conversation, and then afterward We had to talk about it because we were both feeling like something was wrong.

Nichole: This is 21st century relationships. Oh, yes. Annotating your own conversation after the fact. Oh, yes.

Laurel: Ugh. Yeah. Yeah. I did it because it was just like too ridiculous to not. Okay. Starts with Derek. He says, how are you today? Good. About to leave for the airport. Classic Laurel. And then I said, oh, I should preface this. He sent me like a screen cap of his work schedule.

Laurel: Like. Before this and then I said our schedules are very unaligned this week Sobbing emoji face and then he goes womp womp. It's okay love, I'll be seeing you Sunday for my sister's birthday retry if you're still up for it. Yeah, sure. And then, maybe we can have a phone date sometime in there.

Laurel: My Wednesday and Thursday are wide open during the daytime. And I said, yeah, sounds good. That was the text exchange. That's it.

Daniel: To normal people. To normal people! This exchange seems totally normal, but in the twilight zone

Laurel: There should be nothing to read in each of those text messages, right?

No.

Laurel: I'm confused. I wanna hear the interpretation.

Laurel: So, when I said, When I said our schedules are very unaligned this week, cryy face, that was just my immediate reaction to seeing the schedule. But like, we'll figure something out, was like, what would come next. And. His just first interpretation of the, our schedules are very unaligned, was like, oh, I don't give a fuck.

Laurel: Like, like, oh well, can't see each other then ever again.

Laurel: And to be fair like I'm working in this relationship of speaking up for my needs and desires more instead of just waiting for them to inherently get met or just deescalate in my brain and just not expect those things. And so I think with that like nugget of knowledge.

Laurel: He's like preemptively waiting for me to just quietly deescalate. So yeah, so he read that our unaligned schedules. was just like me being like, okay, fuck it we don't need to make time for each other. And then he was trying to play it cool by being like womp, it's okay, love. And I read that as like, oh well, he doesn't give a shit.

Laurel: Like, Oh, he's too busy. And wow, it's such a relief that he doesn't have to try and make plans with me this week.

Daniel: It's just sad trombone sounds like that's,

Laurel: yeah.

Laurel: And then I forget how we like, I don't know if I've brought this up again, but it was like clear in continued conversations or when we were talking on the phone that like we were not okay. Like vaguely not okay. And then I somehow we got talking about how we were interpreting these messages to each other and just we both found it hilarious and that's why I went and took a screen cap and then annotated it with the things that we were reading into it and then what we actually meant by each message, but both, all of them are like, Oh, but be cool.

Laurel: And then meanwhile, we're both just like, are we breaking up? Why don't they, like, why doesn't he care about me anymore? Why doesn't she want to make plans with me?

Daniel: I thought that I would be safe from runaway text misunderstandings. If I just followed Nicole's golden rule, don't discuss heavy shit via text.

Daniel: But now what I've learned is Don't, don't text! Don't text! There is no, There is no safe space. There's

no,

Laurel: like, It's so benign. It is so benign. It's the most benign thing in the world. It's so stupid.

Laurel: And that's my short but sweet poly mindfuck. Womp Womp. Yep.

Daniel: So, I've got a crazy sexy Polly. Ooh. Dovetails right on the end of this.

Song: Music, sexy, call me

Daniel: I have this partner who has a really hard time accepting nice things and nice things said about her.

Daniel: Hmm. And

Ha ha! Oh! To the point where Just because her birthday falls two days apart from christmas. She's always like, oh, you don't have to get anything for my birthday Oh forget about my birthday. Oh please don't bring it up.

Laurel: Yeah classic Which partner is that? I can't quite pinpoint it Oh god

Daniel: So Nicole in order to You what's the uh, what's the word where you um, Ambush somebody? Ambush. You with the kindness you deserve when your defenses are down and you have no choice but to accept it. I am initiating a war. A spit toasting.

Song: Spit, spit, spit, spit, spit toastin from the left and the right. Spit toastin gonna get some tonight. We're gonna cram you full of nice things that we think of you.

No!

Daniel: It's the Nicole's birthday spit toasting special.

Nichole: This is coming out so many weeks after my birthday, so I guess we can't do it.

Laurel: Oh, no. Logistical fail. It's OK if Yum Kapoor can handle it.

Nichole: And that was our most popular episode for a while.

Daniel: I'd like to kick things off by saying that I have never met anybody in my life who is so dedicated to personal growth. And not only do you improve yourself, but you improve your relationships with others. And you are constantly looking for opportunities to go deeper, to love wider, and to make our lives together better.

Daniel: Is it

Laurel: my turn now?

Daniel: It's your turn.

Laurel: I'm not like I'm sorry. I'm

sorry.

Laurel: Wow. That

sigh, what I immediately thought was coming next, What? What

Daniel: I thought that

sigh, What I thought coming next was,

Not like, I

Laurel: don't really hear for this but we're doing it. So okay. But Daniel

asked me to,

Daniel: and I know we established the vague rule earlier that the spit toasting is over when the spit toastie starts crying. I know,

Laurel: but it's true. We're going to lift that rule today. We're going to keep it going.

Laurel: I'm not usually nervous about meeting metamors, but I feel like there, there's still always like a trepidation, especially when it's like a nested married or engaged partner and you go over to their house and you just like, you just don't actually know the dynamic until you show up there.

Laurel: And I think it was Daniel and mine's second date I came over and met you. And just like immediately at ease. It felt so comfortable and natural and I see that reflected because I know you love to host and I see that Reflected constantly around you when you have people into your home you're just so warm and generous with your space and That comes from like a very sincere giving place deep inside of you hard to describe like how important that is as a metamor, as someone like entering into your life in ways that could potentially be like disruptive or uncomfortable and just like having someone who is just like genuinely Open and it like expresses that like with their body and attitude like so I appreciate that.

Daniel: Thank

Laurel: you Are we done?

Daniel: We're just getting started as a counterpoint

Daniel: I'd like to praise Nicole's warrior spirit. You are somebody who, if somebody crosses someone you love, you go to bat for them so hard. And at the same time you have a huge generosity of spirit, like in all other contexts, you are morally generous.

Daniel: And I think that comes from your work in 12 step programs. We've discussed this, but you are always. willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, to to extend kindness and understanding, to be the opposite of cancel culture. Until they hurt someone you love. I appreciate these two extremes.

Daniel: The the welcoming and the flaming sword of the archangel that you wield as well.

Daniel: So this podcast is already a special guest podcast. Because we're all special. And because we're all guests in Nicole's home. Oh my god. Me and Laurel could hog the mic for a long time batting back and forth about how much we love you and how amazing you are, but we wanted to hand this over to the people.

Clip: Nicole, I can only imagine how uncomfortable you are receiving these compliments. Oh, those are the ducks. Um, you are incredible in your wit, in your creativity, in your intelligence, in your beauty, in your grace, and you have the most incredible tits. Truly, truly magnificent, and I love you. This is Panthea, by the way.

I knew that. The ducks gave it away.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ducks classic giveaway.

Daniel: Not only does Panthea love you, but the ducks love you. It's nice to have a little quack here and a quack there.

Daniel: Here a quack.

Laurel: There a quack.

Daniel: Everywhere a hand stack. Onward and inward.

Clip: Nicole, happy birthday to you. What can I say to my dear friend Nicole on her birthday? Oh, I know. You are an intelligent, fabulous, glamorous, humorous, lovely creature. And I adore you. And I want to thank you for, well, we've been friends for quite some time, but over the past couple of years, you really, really helped me through a challenging time.

Clip: And in the process, we got a lot closer, and we had a lot of fun. So, more to come. And, uh, on a less profound note, you have a sweet ass and a magnificent rack.

Daniel: Everybody knows it! Everybody knows it! We had talked earlier about getting a soundboard. Of Nicole saying, my tits in the same tone that I say my OCD.

Daniel: And now I regret that we didn't set this up beforehand. Cause it would have been, it would have been a perfect episode for that. You ready? That's just a whimper.

Clip: So I feel like the low hanging fruit about Nicole is that she is the most beautiful woman in the world. Uh, which if you've seen her, you know that, but it, it bears repeating. Uh, another thing about Nicole is she is the funniest fucking person I've ever met in my life. And in addition to that, also laughs at everything.

Clip: And so how often do you get those two traits in the same person? It's impossible. Nicole also, incredible taste in everything, extremely annoying. How Good, her taste is.

Daniel: That's your best friend, Stubert. And,

Daniel: It shows how well they know you. That, they feel like you could only accept what they want. Compliments if they're couched in fuck you for being such a great taste. Oh, yeah. Yeah,

Laurel: totally

Clip: Happy birthday, Nicole, my Capricorn queen. I just want to say that you are one of the most incredible people I've ever met.

Clip: Because you are one of the most open people I have ever met you and I met at another friend's birthday party and at the end of it, I awkwardly was like, hey, can I get your phone number? I know. It's weird for strangers to become friends, but I just really dig you and. You were totally into it and we hung out instantly and you just became a huge part of my life.

Clip: You've inspired me to get sober. You've inspired me to embrace who I am and What I want in life, you know? If I want to take a bath, like, take a bath. If I want to stay in bed all day and cry, I can do that. I've never had anyone accept me, my wants, my feelings, my desires, to the level that you have accepted me.

Clip: And you do this for everyone around you. That's part of what makes you so incredible. It's like one of the 6, 855 reasons why I love you, but it's an important one. Happy . I love you.

She's a math teacher. So she's really into numbers.

Daniel: I thought she was just misremembering the lyrics to that one song from Rant.

Daniel: Need a breath?

Nichole: Just don't know how this is going to be interesting for anybody else to listen to, but it doesn't matter. Fuck em.

Daniel: Yeah. Hey y'all. The spit toasting starts being for us, but it's, it's also for you because we want you all to imagine that you are just receiving all of this love.

Daniel: We are the love valve in your ear that you can carry around with you anywhere. So whatever you're feeling down, Stuber, it's just put on the Nicole spit toasting birthday special. And make believe that you're Nicole.

Laurel: You don't have to make believe there's a little Nicole in all of us. Would you like some? Yeah.

Daniel: That's why I sometimes feel very imbalanced. It's my inner tits. Onward.

Clip: Hi, what's great about Nicole is that I can depend on her. She's the kind of person who, like a stage manager, can handle any kind of catastrophic event with a calmness and a clipboard, an efficiency. She's got it. I trust her. She's the adult in the room. She's also funny, smart, 10 out of 10 in the looks department.

Clip: I mean, vintage babe for the ages. Anyone with eyes goes, va va voom, and she's kind. She's a good friend. She cares and at the same time has this kind of laissez faire attitude that I strive to have but know I never will. Sometimes in the right ways, she doesn't give a shit, and I could learn a lot from that.

Daniel: Now this is our friend. Our good friend. Stubert. It must be really confusing for all the new coming listeners who are like, why is everybody, they name, what is a Stubert? Do they only know one person? Um, we all, we All love her very much.

Daniel: Do you have any rebuttal to any of these so far, by the way?

Laurel: Yeah, would you like to make your case

Nichole: now? I'm, I'm really practicing just like, being open and receiving of the compliments and the nice things that people are saying I'm really trying to just like, be receptive.

Laurel: This is part of Nicole's growth journey that Daniel was mentioning earlier.

Daniel: Let's go.

Clip: You know that feeling when you meet somebody from your hometown and you're like, There's no way in hell I just met you. Cause my hometown nobody's ever heard of. Or when you go to the store and, You're pretty damn sure that they're not gonna have what you wanted, but you walk in and they're fully stocked with Death by Chocolate ice cream.

Clip: Or you hear a song from your, when you were a teenager that you haven't heard in years and all these things just bring you that warm feeling and you're just, for a second, for that one second, everything is gonna be okay. That feeling, that feeling is how Nicole has always made me feel. Every time I'm around her.

Clip: Every time I see her name, every time she crosses my mind, I just feel warm, and loved, and I know that everything is gonna be okay. Happy birthday, baby. I love you, girl. Hey, Daniel.

Wow,

Daniel: was the fully stalked line also a tit joke?

Laurel: Oh my god in this context. Yes.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, That's all Just kidding.

Clip: Hey, Nicole. I wanted to wish a happy birthday to one of the sweetest and most thoughtful people I know, and the most attractive Star Trek fan in the city of Portland, Oregon. Happy birthday. I hope you're having a wonderful one.

Daniel: I just love his baritone voice. Doesn't it soothe something deep inside of you every time? I know. Mmm. Mmm. Please don't say creamy. Ha ha ha ha ha! She's already, she's already crying. And if you, like, creamy just, creamy just sets her off. Puts her over the edge. Yeah. I'm sorry. Ha That's disgusting.

Nichole: That's disgusting.

Daniel: babe, there's something that I wanted to talk

Clip: The first kind thing Nicole ever did for me was say hello. I It was kind of over then. She meant it. She genuinely wanted to introduce herself, and this was a person I needed to meet. Nicole is a person who lends luminescence to evenings, even wearing black. It's as if she conceals some mechanism for generating light within her bones.

Clip: I aim to be more like her. And I hope that she has a happy birthday.

Aww.

Daniel: Save that one for last.

Yeah, I

Laurel: know. Straight up sobbing. Aww. Aww. Now I feel

Daniel: mean.

Daniel: Don't this is why they're this is why there is the phrase tears of joy. Yeah. Yeah

i'm sorry.

Daniel: Sorry for being so wonderful that everybody loves you? Yep.

Rude.

Daniel: Sorry for being apparently the hottest person that anybody has ever met? Yeah. Ever? Sorry for your warmth and kindness?

Daniel: Hey, you sorry for that?

Laurel: Sorry for your grotesquely good taste?

Daniel: According to your best friend, Stubert, you should be sorry for that. That's

why hers was the best. Everyone else, obviously that's like why I'm sobbing, because everybody's was just it was so kind. And, um. You really don't have to play all of those in the podcast. You can just capture my reaction.

Know that I listened to voice memos of people saying nice things about me. Really got me.

Daniel: No, they're all expecting their five minutes of fame.

Daniel: We owe it to them.

Can you edit this episode, babe? Like I can't listen to this, I can't um, I'm so, I'm just so touched and I'm so moved and um, I

uh, I just love you both so much. And I love our friends and family that we've built around us. And I, I'm so privileged to have all of this warmth and love around me. And I've

Nichole: been trying to meditate more and have conversations with like a higher power.

Nichole: Cause that is a tenant

of 12 step that I'm not very good at. And what I asked for last night was to please let me hear when people say that they love me. Please let me know it and trust it when people say things. Like that when people say kind things.

Daniel: So be careful what you ask for.

Um, Thank you. Thank you very much.

Laurel: That was like a, that was like a full throttle, like. oh yeah? Like, Alright, bitch like, I will show you.

Nichole: Oh, I'm planning all sorts of retribution.

Daniel: Wait, to us or to God?

To every single person who left a fucking voice memo. Better get ready to get fuckin bombarded with gratitude.

Laurel: I do like this as like the beginning of Nicole's vengeance on God.

This is the origin story.

Nichole: Okay, somebody at work. needed to ask me to do something and he teams messaged me like, I'm about to become your villain origin story. And I was like, Oh no, that already happened. They're called low rise jeans.

Laurel: But give it your best shot.

Daniel: So shall we move along home so that Nicole's head and heart don't explode?

Nichole: Yeah. I have to drink a lot of water now.

Laurel: She

Daniel: lost half of her body weight in tears.

Laurel: I've absolutely dehydrated her. Goodness gracious. Yeah. Are we ready for Ask the Amateurs?

Song: If you got questions, don't demur, it's time to ask the amateurs.

Daniel: Ready as we'll ever be!

Laurel: Woo! Alright, r. Stubert says, First off, love the podcast and would love to hear more about your own personal relationships, issues, and how you navigate them. Specific stories feel so much more meaningful than general advice. For me, at least. And so there, this is a question about us.

Laurel: I'm curious. You all mentioned how Daniel and Nicole got married and how Laurel and other partner attended the wedding. Love that.

Laurel: Why did you choose to get married? What does that marriage provide for Nicole and Daniel versus their other relationships? Is this kind of legal, formal commitment important to you? Does that create a hierarchy in a sense? And how does that impact Laurel and Daniel slash Nicole's other partners? If it doesn't create a hierarchy, then what does hierarchy really mean?

Nichole: It's

Laurel: a good question.

Nichole: It's good several questions. And

Laurel: you're going to have to

Nichole: repeat them.

Laurel: It's a good collection of questions. I'm not going to remember.

Daniel: It's a cluster ask. Um, I was at first like, Oh, come on. This is not what we come here for. We come here to make fun of people in unicorn hunter hunters and to pretend like we know everything in ask the amateurs.

Daniel: And now you're like, Oh, why don't you share something vulnerable about your, about your personal life? But I guess this is the best episode to do on it because we've already just, gotten down to the raw fucking bones of ourselves on this,

Daniel: Let's talk about ourselves.

Laurel: Yeah, why did you get married?

Daniel: So for me, like the why about getting married was, It's pretty clear to me, it like surfaced relatively quickly. And the first thing was that I just wanted to give Nicole the pledge of my love for our lives. Like, It felt right. I wanted her to know that I was here for the long haul.

Daniel: The second thing was, the kinds of partnerships that are associated with marriage as it's traditionally understood. Me and Nicole are real good at, we're really good domestic partners.

Daniel: We're very good hosts and like house builders. We create a good hub from our householding in the kind of like Buddhist sense of householding from which to create communities and create safe spaces for communities. It made sense practically in a lot of different ways and emotionally in a lot of different

Nichole: ways.

Nichole: Yeah, I think that I never expected to get married. I was not a girl who growing up like dreamed of my wedding day. And in falling in love with Daniel, I was very content to just have our home and have our dogs and have this beautiful community around us. And when you asked me to marry you, it just felt so right to say yes.

Nichole: And I also Really just wanted to go to Vegas and not have anybody at our wedding because I didn't like the idea of people looking at me don't perceive Nicole but I

Daniel: Our relationship has just been a series of me subjecting Nicole to kindness

Nichole: in situations that

Daniel: she is uncomfortable with

Nichole: well, I um You You really did encourage me to have a wedding, and like a wedding is not a marriage.

Nichole: So I think that it was a great first step actually to have a wedding in our marriage because it forced me to like get uncomfortable. And have to make decisions and plan things that were not for other people. You are somebody who I can grow with. And that was really important to me in a longterm relationship with somebody who was like willing to flex and grow with me.

Nichole: I think there are practical benefits. To getting married. There's tax benefits and the hospital visitation benefits, which should extend to more than your spouse,

Daniel: part of our marriage was also motivated by elements of polyamory, I think. In that. One for her family I wanted you, Nicole, to have a kind of a, a bedrock from which you could express to others the solidness of our relationship and of. Our polyamorous relationship and I think all along the aspects of polyamory that you've been uncomfortable with since we started seeing each other eight years ago have never been jealousy.

Daniel: You're not a jealous person. They have been typically about perception from the outside world. Like how your family is going to view you. How your friends are going to view you. And so in part the marriage was also to give you that. . Also, I had already started seeing you, Laurel, and I knew that our relationship was going to be very serious. Even after a few months of seeing you. Me and you, Laurel. I wanted to make sure that you, Nicole, like you would have no

Daniel: no fear because it's a gesture of permanence on my part, the intention of permanence. So I think it was in part motivated, in certain aspects by both your relationship with your family, my relationship with Laurel . It wasn't just. About us.

Me and

Daniel: you, Nicole. Yeah. And I don't think that marriages ever really are.

Daniel: Which brings us to the second half of the question, maybe?

Laurel: Yeah, because it asks it asks about the impact of your marriage on mine and Daniel's relationship, and then any other partners that either of you have.

Nichole: So

Nichole: I will say

Nichole: I don't want to say that it's tough out here for married women. Um, There is certainly, I've had experiences recently where people make assumptions about my emotional availability because of the fact that I'm married. , I don't necessarily like have to give reassurance, but I do have to be very clear with partners and potential partners that like yes, I am married and Daniel is not my primary partner.

Nichole: Daniel is a Central partner of mine. And we chose to get married for various reasons, which you can listen to this episode and find out why.

Nichole: This

Daniel: is why you need to carry the business card. Yeah. You'd have those printed up ASAP.

Nichole: But there's also the very clear understanding that we've described primary partnership as someone who's wants to Trump somebody else's needs, another partner's needs.

Nichole: And my wants in no way

Nichole: come between you, your relationship. They, my wants do not Trump your needs, Laurel, and nor did. my wants, Trump, any needs of any of Daniel's partners. It's just not something, cause I would not want that coming the other direction,

Daniel: remember when we were all like too sensitive about the terrible state of the world to use the word Trump in everyday conversation?

Nichole: Are we just desensitized now? And

Daniel: we're just going, whatever, what the fuck ever. It

Nichole: was still in the back of my head, but I, I can't think of another Of another word. Right now I am like so dehydrated from crying. So I'm not being very articulate.

Nichole: Basically I will say that to summarize.

Daniel: An aside. Nicole and I both take rounds editing the podcast. Each of us have different roles that we do here. And I was saying that the way that I edit Nicole and Laurel is completely different in that I edit out the first third of most of what Laurel says, because she takes a while to kind of like, Warm up to a topic and she tried to tries a different few different angles and it's really and then she finally figures out like How she's gonna mount it and then so I take out the first third where she's experimenting and then with Nicole I usually take out the last third because she has a tendency to Say all this stuff and kind of explore these topics and then she stops And she says, in summary.

Nichole: I know, I know.

Daniel: And I just take out entire sections of my own.

Nichole: I guess I just, I want to make very clear that I am working to nevermind. That's okay.

Daniel: See, you can just cut out the summary part live. Yeah, I can. Yeah. Yeah. Laurel, you had said some stuff to me about how our marriage affects you, or rather how it doesn't.

Laurel: Yeah. It's, there's a couple of funny things. One is, I think when I was like very initially first presented with the idea that you two were going to get married, I think I had that initial pang of the presumed emotional unavailability thing, like that assumption of like, oh, well, Daniel's going to be less emotionally available somehow.

Laurel: And then I got over that. Cause I was like, not stupid, like it, that it's not a real thing. And I think that there's a lot of poly people out in the world and in the cesspool of the internet that will say things like, I'll never date a married person. I'll never get involved with a married person or people who I think question my own like, relational anarchism because my partner is married or some other like variant of that.

Laurel: And I think one, I think that your marriage is beautiful because of all the things that it means to you too. And what it means to me is irrelevant. Like it is yes, we're in community and like what I think of marriage as a practice or a social construct or whatever really has no impact on what it means to you two.

Laurel: And I understand what it means to you guys. And like, I did get to go to the ceremony and celebrate. And for me, witnessing that is just like, it's just a beautiful like, expression of love between two people that I really care about. And being able to see that manifest in a ritual is really exciting and warm and that being a like a marker for, what the, what your bond and like the rest of your lives looks like.

Laurel: And and that can take on so many forms, like that could, it can be a, legal state sanctioned union. It can be a religious or spiritual ceremony. It can that can look a gazillion different ways.

Daniel: Our wedding was dope, by the way.

Nichole: Your wedding was dope. Our wedding was the best wedding I've ever been to.

Daniel: Short ceremonies.

Nichole: So short, 7 minutes.

Daniel: Adapted a John Prine song for the vows. Mhmm. Yeah. In spite of ourselves, it was a little dirty. Yeah, it was

Laurel: very sweet and charming and absolutely.

Laurel: My dress costs 34. She's the best. She's the best. Yeah, and what actually matters is just I feel valued and treated well in my relationships? With either of you and like both of you and that's never been like a question to me. Like there's never been like a doubt in my mind That there was ever going to be some kind of sneakiarchy shoved in there with the marriage that our relationship mine and Daniel's relationship did not change after you two got married.

Laurel: A way that was, like, impacted by the fact that you guys became married. When you're saying, Nicole, about how like people assume an emotional unavailability because you're married I do think that a lot of like the hang ups and trepidations that people have about dating people who are in married relationships, a lot of it does come from assumption.

Laurel: And a lot of it does come from trying to be chill and not ask for what you need or what you actually want in a situation rather than just actually having like candid conversations about it. And I'm

Nichole: trying really hard to do that on my side, right? Like Have candid conversations, but I also like just to like put it plainly I want a partner who is not threatened by the fact that I am married.

Nichole: Yeah. And who can celebrate it and who understands that it does not limit my emotional availability. In fact, Yeah. It begets more emotional availability, because I have a deep committed relationship that I am constantly practicing

Nichole: strengths in and, and ways of navigating conflict, and figuring out who I am as a person. As an individual, and I think that is desirable. Yeah. I don't know about anybody else, but.

Laurel: That's the crazy thing, is I like I would rather date people who are established and secure.

Laurel: And their relationships rather than people who are like chaotic and like emotionally volatile, because that person is way more at risk of just like dumping me and moving on and, cash in the NRE and leaving versus someone who has a strong, established, committed relationship and is also like making space for other relationships.

Nichole: Not to stop the flow of conversation, but do we need to do a Normie corner for NRE? Have we done that before?

Daniel: Real quick. Real quick. Normie Corner. Everybody huddle up.

Song: I said, all the cool kids with the real sick perm they go to Nor corner. Nor corner. That's where we define our basic glossary of terms down at nor corner nor corner.

Laurel: NRE. New Relationship Energy.

Daniel: Self explanatory.

Laurel: Yeah. Or known as limerence. But when you get super infatuated with somebody at the beginning of a relationship and it all feels hot and heavy and exciting and

Nichole: It's chemical reactions happening in your body. Spoiler alert. Spoiler.

Laurel: Yeah. 'cause I think that there there like needs to be a distinction made between like explicit and implicit hierarchy and like explicit hierarchy is something like saying, I have a primary partner. They're primary, they come first.

Laurel: Versus the things that are more implicit by circumstance. And, like, you can make arguments for marriage or cohabiting having implicit hierarchy in it in that yes, when it comes down to it, if there was some legal emergency or something like, Nicole would have like, Sign off as your wife and I wouldn't

Daniel: which one of you would want to pull the plug and which one would not God If you got in a fight over my

Nichole: I think both of us would just leave the room

Daniel: My mom would do it she's obsessed

Nichole: Abby,

Daniel: this one's on you.

Laurel: Dashiell would accidentally

step

Laurel: on

the plug.

Laurel: But I think like those kinds of things, yes, can be real concern if you don't have, if you don't have trust and you don't have a relationship with your metamor. So like, but that just like, Another notch in the column for Kitchen Table.

Laurel: I mean Yeah, in this situation like, just a non issue for me.

Nichole: Yeah.

Nichole: I think also we have to Acknowledge the fact that Daniel and I have been in open relationships since the very beginning.

Laurel: Yeah. Yes.

Laurel: So

Nichole: it's not like we got married and then decided to open our marriage. So not all married people coming to the table are going to have the same kind of experience that we do. So I understand people's reservations with wanting to date married people.

Daniel: And we didn't get married or get engaged until we were really pretty firmly in kitchen table Polly.

Daniel: Correct. Lifestyle. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. Cause there is yes, often people who are in monogamous marriages for a period of time before opening up that relationship, like often have a lot to unpack and it can be difficult because they can be more committed to that relationship than the other ones in their lives.

Laurel: As they go through that process, which. Is not

Daniel: crazy or if they're like some stage of disengagement where their polyamory is actually an attempt to save a Relationship sometimes like monogamous couple decides. Okay, we're going to open up the marriage We're gonna try polyamory where you can also have emotional connections with people.

Daniel: Sometimes it just might be a step to In the direction of disassembling a relationship where that was never, that could, our relationship could never be confused for that.

Laurel: Yeah.

Laurel: Cause well, Nicole would never want to come between you and I.

Laurel: You are constantly coming between Nicole and her ability to have other relationships.

Daniel: What are you talking about? I started a segment so that we can

That's true. Invitation to love.

Daniel: That's where we workshop Nicole's dating profiles and assess potential suitors. It's the bomb.

Laurel: In order to find Nicole.

Daniel: Love. I realize I'm using a lot of outdated 90s hip hop slang today.

Daniel: It's the

ball. I didn't even catch that.

Daniel: Also I said that our wedding was dope. Yeah. Alright. I'm showing my age and my musical interests. One of the things that I was, I was like a little bit worried about like just bringing this up on the podcast is. Me and.

Daniel: Laurel have talked over the months, years fading slowly in getting a little louder as time goes on about the possibility of having a kind of spiritual bonding ceremony, poly marriage thing between us as well. And it was something that I hadn't talked with Nicole explicitly about. Um, But when I shared this with her the other night, she was like, Oh, I figured.

Yeah.

Daniel: Which, one was very touching. Also made me feel very insecure about how transparent I am about any given thing in my life. Nicole can see right through me. Oh

Laurel: yeah. You think she doesn't know what she's getting for Christmas.

Daniel: Yeah. She did not know what she was getting for her birthday. I did not know that. No, that was, oof. Yeah. Which again, with me and you, Laurel, when we do this, It will not be a an assertion of hierarchy of our relationship versus any of our other relationships, but rather a pledge of love, a ceremony of affirmation about our Love in our connection.

Daniel: For a very different kind of relationship than I have with you, Nicole. Like,

Daniel: One can have deep, lifelong, committed relationships of completely different types. that are still for like spiritual intents and purposes marriages. Don't tell the government they're going to paratroop in here any minute and shut this shit down. But so thank you, Stubert for uh, bringing that to the surface in a really refreshing way.

Nichole: Yeah, I also want to. Say that while I had assumed that there was going to be some kind of commitment ceremony. I also quite honestly was hoping for it um, because, because I, Laurel, I want you to stick around. Um, And. It's just a, it's a, my first thought was like, Oh, great. Cool.

Nichole: Cause then this means that she'll be here and she's not going anywhere anytime soon. Laurel, you mean a lot to me and I know that you mean a lot to Daniel and you really make Daniel happy. It just makes me, I'm really not articulate today after you guys destroyed me.

Laurel: Nicole, Nicole, when you say nice things to Nicole, she cries. I just realized, I'm just like balling up my fists in my pockets.

And she's

Daniel: ah! That's why you're my tiny

fists. Ah!

Daniel: This is Laurel's now deeply baked in nickname, Tiny Fists.

Nichole: I just deeply care about you. And, I would be honored. For you to share some kind of commitment with my husband. Like it really, it would mean a lot to me.

Laurel: Sister wives. Go help your cutoff.

Laurel: I hate you for that.

Daniel: Um, only when spurred by another anonymous stubert or by the next spit toast, I will tell you why I want to Marry you, Laurel.

Laurel: That's quite the threat. How dare you assault me like this?

Daniel: Get ready to have fingernail marks in your palms.

Laurel: Oh, yeah. I don't. Oh, I do.

Daniel: Shall we move along, huh?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: How about a little Poly Pyramid Scheme?

Song: Polyhuraman Huramanski. Polyhuraman Huramanski. Polymega bolts, join the cult. Polyhuraman Huramanski.

Laurel: Yeah, speaking of questions.

Daniel: We're running low and we would like to invite all of you to visit polyamateurhour. com where you can submit questions anonymously of the many beloved stewards.

Daniel: can email us at polyamateurhouratgmail. com.

Laurel: You can also follow us on Instagram at polyamateurhour and DM us there if you'd like.

Daniel: And if you don't have like a relationship issue. That's fine. Just look at what this person did to us today. Yeah. Just

Laurel: pry into our lives. Make us put our shit on the table.

Daniel: Ask me about my love for nineties hip hop. Ask Nicole why she dresses like a gangster's wife.

Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: Don't ask me anything. Don't you fucking dare.

Laurel: Yeah, get in now while the getting is good. And then it's going to be so, you're going to have to wait months for your, your question to get answered. Cause we're about to, we're about to explode on the Polly podcast scene.

Daniel: Yeah, and that is just figurative talk, not even a double entendre.

Laurel: Should we start a, should we start a polyamateur hour only fans?

Daniel: Don't think that I haven't thought about it. It's the only way that we're going to make money on this thing right

here.

Daniel: So if you have any requests in that area,

Laurel: write in. We'll have to make a separate form on the website.

Daniel: Yeah. That one's going to have to have uploadable pictures as well.

Laurel: Diagrams of what you'd like to see.

Daniel: Ending

Laurel: on

Song: This has been Polyamateur Hour, a production of Risa Records. If you have a question for Ask the Amateurs, or a recommendation for Is This Poly, please email us at polyamateurhour at gmail dot com. If you enjoyed the show, and you know you did, you perv, please subscribe to us on your podcatcher of choice, leave us a five star review, and most importantly, tell at least one person in your life to check us out.

Song: But we hope you tell three. Remember, the advice given by the amateurs should not be followed. Unless you are prepared to be ecstatically happy, successful, and strange. Until next time!