Nichole: The other day, one of the options we had for a title for one of our episodes was Wiki How to Make a Murder.

Nichole: And I was like, someone has to have come up with that before. So I put in parentheses, Wiki How to Make a Murderer.

Nichole: So in Googling Wiki How to Make a Burner, one of the first, one of the first things that came up was.

Nichole: Wiki, how to fake your own death.

Oh, wow.

Nichole: Here's how to fake your own death in 16 easy steps.



Daniel: I feel like this is a rabbit hole custom made for Nicole.

Nichole: It, I mean, it was, what are the steps, Anthony? Okay. Are you ready? I'm ready.

Nichole: Yeah.

Nichole: Step number one,

Daniel: get a haircut.

Nichole: Think twice about faking your own death.

Yeah, good call



Daniel: this is the same person who wrote the self-help index cards that our therapist gave us. Right. So it's like, uh you know, take care of yourself like turtles do. Same inner logic. Mm-hmm. At work.

Nichole: I mean, it's just, it, it. it does go pretty thoroughly in how to fake your own death, including staging your own death. Leave some belongings behind to avoid suspicion. This is like

Daniel: art directing your own death. Yeah.

Nichole: Assume a new identity cut ties with everyone, you know. Step number seven.

Daniel: Wait, is this a 12 step

Nichole: program?

Nichole: It is. How many steps are there? Yeah. There are actually 12 steps

Daniel: custom made for Nicole.

Laurel: Oh my God. Okay. Okay. Here's the problem with the, data on faking your own death because we're only ever gonna hear about the failures. Exactly. How many times has it worked?

Daniel: Yeah, we don't know. It's just like non-monogamy.

Laurel: It also, It also I feel like kind of relates to our, is this Polly today? Does it

Daniel: Oh, does it now?

Laurel: Yeah. I feel like it does.

Laurel: 'cause there's a lot of, am I jumping? Am I jumping the gun? Am I skipping over the shark? Am I

Daniel: skipping over the shark? Are you shaving the beard?

Nichole: That sounds like my mother just doesn't know, like basic sayings. And one time we were heading into her studio and she turned to me and put on a very serious face.

Nichole: She was like, Nicole, when we get in there, we have to make a beehive to the alarm. And I was like, what? And she turned around and said it again, we have to make a beehive to the alarm. And I said, A beeline.

Daniel: Oh my god.

Daniel: And honestly, the necessity to run very fast to an alarm is the most your mother thing.

Daniel: That could be on the docket. Our listeners are

Nichole: learning a lot about my parents and there were

Daniel: eccentricities. Hey, mine too. Your Too Yours too. Yes. And laurel's. Yep.

Laurel: Mostly my dad's side. Mom, you're welcome.

Daniel: And by the way, you were skipping the shark.

Laurel: I'm sorry. Because,

Daniel: Because Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour. I'm Nicole.

Nichole: I'm Laurel,

Daniel: I'm Daniel.

Nichole: So should we start with, is this Polly this week?

Daniel: I think so, because we're all still like. in a state of euphoria slash PTs from watching this movie.

Laurel: Oh my God.

Is this.

Laurel: So this Kim as a recommendation from my partner Sean.

Laurel: Who I will say, I don't think, I don't think Sean has ever steered me wrong in the film department. If I don't enjoy it, I at least had a capital E experience watching it. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Well, we watched at Sean's recommendation, nowhere, the 1997 film by Greg Rocky. This is the third in the teen Apocalypse Trilogy. No. Um, Proceeded by totally fucked up in 1993 and Doom Generation in 1995. I

Laurel: haven't seen either of those. I kinda want to, now

Nichole: I've only seen Doom Generation because Rose McGowan is in it and I wanted to be that character for Halloween.

Nichole: Nice. I

Daniel: wanna watch them all and map them against what I was doing in each one of those years. Yeah. Yes. 'cause I'm pretty sure that the reason why I've never heard of this movie before or seen this movie's 'cause you were living it. Exactly. I I was, within the film, there's some type of uh, meta experience going on here.

Daniel: 'cause I tell ya

Laurel: we did once, as soon as we started watching it, both Nicole and I were like, like, we can't believe you haven't seen this because it was so iconically nineties and Yep. Of da of the essence of

Nichole: Daniel. What, how old were you in 1997?

Daniel: I would've been. 18 or 19, depending on what

Nichole: time you're, so you would've been age of these characters.

Nichole: Yeah,

Daniel: that's what I'm saying.

Nichole: Yeah. So this film has been described as Beverly Hills 9 0 2. 1 0 1 acid. That's good. That's a pretty good analogy. Yeah. And the idea that I'm going to try and explain the plot is farcical,

Laurel: like immediately after watching it, both Daniel's Nicole's gonna summarize this one.

Laurel: And we're all just like, how

Nichole: Alright. Okay. So I'm just gonna broad make broad strokes of the plot, okay? Yeah. All right. So it's 1997. It's Los Angeles Dark is a teenager who is obsessed with masturbation and sex and making home videos that will somehow be a movie some sometime later in his life.

Clip: So what's with the camcorder? Are you in film class Dark? Thinks he's gonna be the next Clyde Bark, right? Eat my turbo. Will you, Lucifer actually. Convince someone to die soon in like a spectacular plane crash, A fire chemical explosion, and I wanna film it so it'll be like this cool record of my own death.

Clip: So I take my camera with me wherever I go. Isn't that just so bitching you, please just shut up. How do you know, know what that you're gonna, you know? Die. I feel it. Like a pre nomination.

Laurel: Yeah. Which are for, they're for like a class.

Laurel: He's in like a art class or something.

Nichole: I think we couldn't tell if they were in college or if they were in high school. Yeah. That was

Daniel: also very, they reference professors and the types of classes that they reference are also each one is a little like satirical vignette, like one of them was nuclear apocalypse or something like Yeah.

Daniel: Nuclear apocalypse studies. Like they're all comments on the complete horror that all of these teenagers like find themselves in. Yeah. In nineties culture,

Laurel: right. Which makes them sound like they're college courses. Yes. Yes.

Nichole: But they also all live with their parents.

Nichole: I think it is supposed to be some kind of in-between because we're also supposed to see the parents as foils against like how crazy the teenagers are. Yes. And how disassociated the teenagers are. There are some great cameos in it. Yeah. There's so many banger cameos. Yes. It's ridiculous.

Daniel: Yes. I'm surprised I wasn't in it.

Nichole: I'm surprised you weren't in a Gus Van Stat movie. Yeah.

Daniel: All my friends were in Gus Van Sant movies. It got me thinking a lot about like the difference between the Gus van San nineties and Oh yes.

Daniel: And this nineties Gus van San. Like, I feel like the drugs that were informing the vibe were a different set of drugs. Like I feel like it was all downers.

Nichole: Yeah, it was. It was.

Daniel: It was, it was weed and, or heroin. Where this was definitely psychedelic, like the colors

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Were like supercharged, but also that's like LA colors versus Pacific Northwest colors too.

Daniel: Yeah. Oh

Laurel: yeah.

Nichole: Okay. So Dark is in an open relationship with Mel. Mel is in a relationship with Dark and this woman named Lucifer, Lucifer and Dark hate each other.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. And they keep making jab at each other, the entire fucking movie so that it gets boring.

Clip: If you pop a ZI on your forehead, you can get blood poisoning and die. You know, Lucifer, you are so dumb. You should donate your brain to a monkey. Science fair? I read it in mouth to mouth. Scrotal fungus melt. What's this? What dark, being born, mature. Yuck. Yuck, yuck.

Daniel: I feel like there was like secretly a little bit of mutual respect between them. Like part of it seemed playful to me,

Laurel: sort of, but it was also like, if not playful, there was at least very much an acceptance of this person.

Laurel: Exists in my life. And we share a lot of time and space together. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm not trying to avoid it, but I will make a lot of jokes about it. Yes.

Daniel: And I think that we should just accept, to a certain extent, we're gonna be talking about this movie in a non-linear fashion.

Nichole: Oh God. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Nichole: And we're not gonna cover the entirety of the movie, like all of the different plot points. Yeah.

Daniel: So they're both metamours that like hate each other. Yes. Theoretically or playfully hate each other. But they are both like jealous together of Mel with other people.

Laurel: Yes. Correct. Like they don't really

Daniel: seem jealous of each other.

Daniel: They seem jealous. Of

Laurel: ski and surf. Ski and surf, which are just like bodacious blonde hunks.

Clip: Yo Mel Tur ski sub. Same old, same old. Hey Derrick, we haven't seen you since that time. Backstage at the palace after the.

Laurel: Yep. And they're two like twin brothers, I think is the implication. Yes.

Nichole: Yeah.

Nichole: So Dark and Mel are in a relationship dark, also sees this blonde boy in his dreams, but also on the street. And this blonde boy's name is Montgomery.

Clip: Need a lift. Well, you're in my modern society class, aren't you? Yeah. I think name's dark. It's dark. Like absence of light or uh, dark. Like we call cram it. Fur burger. This is Mel the loudmouth. Hag is Lucifer On Montgomery. We're on our way to the hole for some breakfast. You wanna join?

Nichole: He's got two different color dyes and dark is pretty much immediately in love with him. Yeah. So there is the insinuation that like he's bisexual.

Nichole: Basically like, there are a group of friends in la they all ostensibly, I guess go to classes together. Some are sleeping with each other, some are just related to each other. There's a couple like brother sister combos in there.

Nichole: It takes place over the course of a day, and they are going through their day and they know that this group of friends is playing kick the can on acid later that night, and then after that they're going to Juju Fruit's house for a party.

Daniel: Like the introduction of this parade of characters.

Daniel: I think that is more than anything the format of this movie is, it's like, it's like a series of religious icons of like slutty druggy, teenagers from the nineties. Oh. And like, They were like all familiar icons to me. I was like, I know that person. Yes, I know ju I know Juju Fruit, you know?

Nichole: Yes. Yeah.

Nichole: From your life, you know,

Daniel: hand job.

Nichole: Yep. Yes. Yeah.

Clip: Ju with Party Amigo, what's. Up hand job. Me, I'm a damn man. You got any more of those horse tranquilizer thing in there? No. No man. I took my supply before I came,

Nichole:

Nichole: So Dark is going through some emotional upheaval. Woven throughout the movie he has visions of an alien lizard guy who is abducting people with his little laser gun, right?

Yeah.

Nichole: So they're on, they're all on ecstasy and they're playing kick the can. Montgomery is wandering around the locker rooms of this, wherever they're playing, kick the can. And he gets zapped by the lizard alien and Dark finds his little cross necklace at the end, right?

Nichole: And he's like, oh shit, where did Montgomery go? And everyone else is like, yeah, where did Montgomery go? Oh, well,

Daniel: Laurel, do you also get like, uh, anxious when you see lizard aliens, lizard people are you like, you know, how long is this gonna take to, to get antisemitic tic?

Laurel: Oh yeah. Like, Yeah. My first thought was the whole um, yeah, lizard people like conspiracy theory thing.

Laurel: But no, this stays uh, just innocently alien reptile Yeah. Through the whole thing. Yeah.

Daniel: Non-denominational lizard people in.

Nichole: So they end up at this party at Juju Fruits party and Dark confronts Mel in the bathroom and is basically saying like,

Clip: mel, are we still together or what? Dark. I just wish things weren't so messed up and confusing. That's all.

Clip: Can't we just leave this place? Can't we just leave this whole planet behind and forget about everybody and everything and just like being loving stuff. I'm all dark.

Nichole: He seemingly has forgotten about Montgomery since Montgomery was abducted. He's like, well outta sight, outta mind. But he is still wearing his necklace, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And Mel, we see them toward the beginning of the movie. They're having sex and she basically says

Clip: I firmly believe that human beings are built. For sex and for love, and that we should dole out as much of both as possible before we're old and ugly and nobody wants to touch us anymore.

Clip: I know, and just because I make it while other guys and girls has no effect whatsoever on my feelings for you.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah. And so she's out the gate, like pretty polyamorous and pretty open about it. And then you come to this like toward the tail end of the movie bathroom scene and she's just like, I can't give that to you. You know, I wanna go fuck around with surf and ski. Like, that's what I want.

Daniel: the fact that the movie starts and ends with dark makes me think Okay. He's supposed to be for all intents and purposes, as much as this movie can like, pull it off the main character.

Daniel: Yes. Yeah. And. as the movie goes on more and more he's like, I just want to be with one person and I want one person to stay with me forever and just be by my side and we can just leave all of this. And however much like I can identify with dark at parties watching, you know, like Laurel go off and mess around with surf and ski.

Daniel: I, I don't think that his energy in this movie is Polly.

Laurel: Well, no, his energy in this movie is like depressed teenager.

Nichole: Yeah. There's, that's everybody's energy in this movie.

Laurel: Yeah. But but it's like completely unselfaware. Like he is completely unselfaware. Yeah. I feel like arguing from anything from his point of view is just saying like, like this movie is just about the despair of existence.

Laurel: But the, like irony and juxtaposition is there's so much life happening around them. Like it is chaotic crescendo of life Yes. Happening around them in the most insane and debaucherous way. Yes. I feel like the movie is not just like dark's, POV it is commentary on that myopic point of view.

Daniel: I feel like it is positioning sex as this route to escape some of this despair. There's almost like an a climax so to speak, of the film where there's several different, like kind of loving transcendent sexual acts that are going on at the same time.

Daniel: And I feel like it is trying to say that sex is one of the few ways , in a situation where life is suffering and teenage life is especially suffering, the kind of connection that these characters are achieving through sex is a bit of transcendence.

Daniel: And the only other kind of transcendence that they have in the film is death.

Nichole: Yeah. I mean, to. Wrap it up as far as like dark's journey and the polyness of it.

Nichole: He returns home from the party having witnessed one guy beaten to death with a can of Campbell soup and finding out that his friend's sister died by suicide. He's at home and he's videotaping himself talking about how he just wants one person to be with him. He just wants one person to love and one person to be with him until the end.

Nichole: And then he hears a knock knock, knock on the window. A little weathering heights, you know, like it's me, I'm Kathy, I come home and it's Montgomery and he's like, I was abducted by aliens, man. Can I come in? And dark is like, yeah. So he comes in, tells him about how he was abducted by aliens, and then they lay down together and dark.

Nichole: Tells Montgomery about how much he wants just one person to like. Will you be this person? To be with me forever.

Daniel: And Montgomery is into it. At first. He's like, I know I just met you and I'm not gay or anything, but I really like you.

Nichole: Yeah, sure.

Clip: Is it okay if I spend the night? I really wanna sleep next to you

Clip: if you promise. To never ever leave me damn.

Nichole: And then Montgomery starts coughing. He starts spasming. And then he explodes into a giant cockroach like bug that turns to dark and says, I'm outta here and crawls out the window.

Daniel: Alright.

Nichole: Oh my God.

Daniel: Reliving this is making me question my, my position before.

Daniel: Okay.

Laurel: Yeah, go ahead.

Daniel: Because. He completely like fails at his journey. Mm-hmm. Monogamy like, he like, you know, such a spectacular way he ends up covered with blood and screaming in the after credit sequence.

Daniel: So yeah, if you take this as almost a satire of dark than maybe, is it Polly?

Laurel: I, I was gonna say it seems like in a way it's about the futility of monogamy.

Laurel: Oh. Because he is desperate, he is so desperate to be loved, but so needs it to be focused on him and needs it to be so secure that he's in a straight jacket and can't escape it. And it seems that it does not exist.

Nichole: Yep.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I think that's a really great reading of it because it's really hard for me to answer this question of, is this poly?

Nichole: Because even the polyamorous character, like some of her sentiments are. You know, Polly Light.

Daniel: I mean, she also sometimes seems like some of the protagonists of the threesome pop songs that we're always coming across. And Is this Polly? It's

Nichole: Exactly, yeah. And she also seems a little bit like a sex addict.

Nichole: I mean, everyone is an addict in this movie in various degrees. It just depends on what they're addicted to. And I think hers is sex. , but the display of love between different partners is there. Yeah. You see her loving dark and you see her loving Lucifer. Yeah. In ways that doesn't feel transactional and doesn't feel Yeah.

Nichole: Fake necessarily. Yeah. So is this poly final verdict?

Laurel: I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say yes. With the context that like they're all young. The story is all definitely about this period in life that hopefully we mature upon, mature past, but it's a very like, overwhelming nihilistic apocalyptic.

Laurel: Period of life that a lot of us experience as teenagers and like Mel doesn't have the life experience or the vocabulary to fully flesh out polyamory or monogamy, I think in a way that, you know, is ideal . You know, she'll, she's gonna, she's, yeah, she's gonna give you sad eyes while you're distraught because surf and ski are eating her tits at the party.

Laurel: I don't think that makes it less poly. I think it's just teenagers doing it. Yeah. I don't know if there is a, complete answer to this whole question, how do we escape the darkness and futility of life with drug sex and rock and roll.

Laurel: But it, it does seem pretty clear that the answer is not having one person that will love and take care of you forever. Yes. It's like the anti-D Disney movie. Yep.

Daniel: One thing I can say, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold my verdict for a minute, but they live in a state of like hyper poly, hyper monogamy.

Daniel: Like this is also maybe comes back to like your point of this altered state of the teenage mind too, right? Everything is saturated color. Everything is three times as intense. So the monogamy feels like the monogamy to end all monogamy. And the polyamory feels like the most anarchic relationship anarchy that you could ever imagine.

Daniel: And

Nichole: So what's your verdict?

Daniel: Yes. Asterisk.

Nichole: Okay.

Daniel: I feel like Laurel had a little asterisk of like, yes. Asterisk teenagers.

Daniel: Mine is like, yes. Asterisk nineties

Daniel: Like if there's a central quality of the movie, it's definitely not Polly. It's this complete chaos that I lived through where I genuinely felt after this, a little bit like I was having an acid flashback.

Nichole: I am also, yes, asterisk. As Yes. Asterisk. Yes. Yes. Asteroids, please. Yes. Asterisk. Yes. Okay. A yes. And um, um, addiction. I mean, addiction just ran rampant through yeah. This Everyone was very blatantly addicted to something.

Nichole: Yeah. Whether it was varying degrees of sex whether it was being the smartest in the room, whether it was actual eating disorder. Yeah. Which was portrayed in the movie with whether it was like actual heroin, whether it was acceptance, whether it was needing to be cool, like there was just that kind of thing.

Nichole: it Ran alongside any polyamory or monogamy that I saw.

Laurel: Yeah.

Laurel: I think this is a really good movie to show your teenagers.

Laurel: So that was nowhere and it was definitely poly with some asteroids.

Nichole: Shall we move on to ask the amateurs?

Daniel: Oh yes, we shall.

Ask the Amateurs: If you got questions, don't de.

Nichole: What is the question?

Daniel: Our question today is short but potent. Kind of like the movie Nowhere, which we just reviewed. Kind of like me.

Laurel: That's

Daniel: true. That's true. It's true. Mm-hmm. Have you ever had metamours not get along? What happens if someone you are dating doesn't like someone else?

Laurel: This is just like Lucifer and dark. Yep.

Laurel: I like, I feel like I was very lucky for a long period of time where all of my partners got along to a degree. And I feel like it's been more of a, like recent phenomenon for me to like, deal with conflict between partners.

Laurel: Some of it has arisen out of, out of conflict that I've had with my partners. A couple of my like recent exes who were pretty like disruptive to my life and required a lot of like my energy and attention because they were making my life pretty miserable.

Laurel: And that manifested, like specifically with you, Daniel, in its own way

Laurel: I think that was less about you guys not getting along and more about like me allowing them to take up so much space in my life.

Daniel: Yeah. I mean that really resonates with me. Huh. Huh? I'm thinking of the partners, you know, that caused the most conflict, the biggest messes the craziest shenanigans Yeah. That have gone down. There was one

Daniel: let us call them biscuit.

My God.

Laurel: Oh, okay. Biscuit. Biscuit, yep.

Daniel: I feel like you could look at on, on the surface and say, oh, Daniel is in conflict with biscuit. Yeah. But I don't think that was the case. They were an addict.

Daniel: How comfortable are you with me dropping biscuit details?

Laurel: Oh, it's fine. Okay. Like, I'm sorry, mom,

Daniel: so Biscuit lost a series of jobs, was drinking, to the point of blackout and pass out

Daniel: it is one of the very few instances that I can remember where I told a partner, I think that you need to break up with this person. You can't get more, in conflict than that.

Daniel: Even in less kind of catastrophic situations, like there can be instances where, you can have feelings about your metamore because of the way that your metamor is treating your partner.

Daniel: I think there were a lot of other reasons too. Jealousy. Is like another real common one.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: I feel like that one is more often the culprit , than people acknowledge.

Nichole: And that's why I would wanna have a conversation straight up, like, tell me what you're feeling. Yeah. And then if it is jealousy, it's like, it seems like you gotta work on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not gonna fix that for you.

Nichole: And if you are a person who has two partners who are in conflict with each other,

yeah.

Nichole: Like you have a couple of choices, you can a, ignore it. It's like, it's a you problem, not a me problem. Um, b, you could investigate a little and ask them to again, name their emotions and not pathologize and not get into creating a narrative around their emotions.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Um, c you could force them into a mud wrestling match,

Laurel: um, which is my favorite option and why I have the pit in the yard.

Laurel: Yeah. I was gonna say like I feel like this question comes from a much like lighter place of like thousand percent, 1000.

Laurel: I go, you just don't like you. What if you just don't get along?

Nichole: If they don't get along then they don't have to spend time with each other.

Laurel: Yeah, like, it can be very frustrating, like sure. Like especially for someone like me who like prefers kitchen table and if two people just don't get along 'cause they're just not each other's people. I'm in the middle of that. That is just annoying to me.

Nichole: I feel the exact same way. I really feel like that sounds like a you problem. Yeah. That doesn't sound like a me problem.

Laurel: I do, love to make you problems, me problems. Hmm. And I've been exercising. Mm-hmm. Not doing that more lately. And so it is a lot easier to deal with my partners not necessarily liking or loving each other if I stop making it a me problem. , there are like so many sides to polyamory, which demonize not liking your part, your metamours.

Laurel: Also like there's the reactionary flip side to that, that is like. You don't have to like anybody and you can set up whatever rules and boundaries you want. Mm-hmm. You can just tell them all to fuck off and like the reality of being human is in between those things. Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Laurel: So if you're reading shit like that on Reddit, stop, the reality is more like, this isn't my person.

Daniel: Like, these two people's wavelengths interfere with each other too.

Daniel: , Maybe they just,

Nichole: I thought you were gonna bring up the examples of when I didn't like your partners.

Daniel: Oh, what are those?

Daniel: Oh, I'll bring them up.

Daniel: I think if you want to have just civil relationships between your metamours, if there's conflict, if you want to work through it, I think that you need to be amenable to changing your perspective if you get in a rigid space of deciding that someone is a certain way.

Daniel: One, it doesn't allow them to grow or to change their relationship with you. And two, it solidifies and squares off a state of mind of conflict so that it's gonna be harder for you to move through

Nichole: The question is, what do you do when you have two partners who are in conflict with each other? Because you certainly did not change your position or like that what that speech you just gave was to me.

Nichole: Yes. Yes. Saying that I'm rigid and I do not allow people to grow in their human beingness. And at the same time, I literally came home, first time meeting this person and they don't make eye contact with me in my own house. Like that is something that I get to be mad about. That's, that is legitimate.

Daniel: Yes. Holding onto it for years. Maybe not. I mean, she was really apologetic and felt very bad to you. Not to me. I'm not gonna send her to apologize to you. Like, like, Like it's, you know, like, uh, go stand before my

Laurel: no

Daniel: partner

Laurel: yeah. Because that is a weird, that is a weird thing being put in the middle of that when somebody behaves poorly to somebody else you're in relationship with. And then you get thrown in the middle of that because you are triangulating,

Laurel: this person realizes they behaved poorly and they talked to you about it, and then you pass the apology along.

Daniel: Yeah, that's all I really could do. And it did kind of end that relationship ship and I'm sad about it.

Daniel: This was in, like earlier in our relationship was in like maybe the first two, three years that we were seeing each other, me and you and Nicole. And I don't think that we had as much clarity about what we wanted our relationships to look like.

Daniel: And so while it wasn't a spoken veto, I kind of let her get vetoed and I've always felt strange about it.

Nichole: I get you feeling strange about it like I did not give you any kind of boundary. I told you exactly how I felt in my own home.

Daniel: Yeah. But you know, the language of like in my own home like there was a lot of power assertion around it, and there was a lot of.

Daniel: Unwillingness to imagine that her motivation was anything other than disregard and disrespect or hostility to, to you. I might have to cut a lot of this out. I know. It's interesting to see us in conflict. Hey, it's stupid nation. It's, yeah. Like, do you like, like this is something that we actually haven't really worked out.

Nichole: I mean, I am working on it in my fourth step.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Because as much as I don't think about it all the time it is something that like I still feel a resentment against.

Laurel: Seeing this play out, it makes it very clear to me how much integrity and like self knowledge. And like deep exploration of your own values and like commitment to them that you have to do to be a good hinge in a situation. It's really easy to look at that situation and just be like, , oh yes, because of X, Y, and Z. , I felt very pressured by Nicole to like behave in these ways. Yes, it probably would've been a big deal for you to push back on that, but you feel shitty about it now and I think what you feel shitty about is how you behaved to that person, not how Nicole behaved toward them, even if your actions were influenced by Nicole's feelings.

Laurel: Yeah. And I think that's the really hard part about being like a hinge. Yeah.

Laurel: It's finding that balance of not taking responsibility for the conflict that's occurring between them if it really doesn't have a whole lot to do with you. Also knowing like how to best behave as your most ethical aligned self despite that or because of that conflict.

Daniel: It's interesting that you went toward. Values rather than what's going to make me happy.

Daniel: I was almost expecting to go there.

Laurel: Oh no. Because nobody feels happy in those situations.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Like when you have to let a partner down, that feels shitty.

Daniel: So what are my values in this? And I didn't align with my values.

Laurel: Yeah.

Laurel: That's what seems to haunt you, not the other particulars of the situation.

Daniel: Well, I mean, Nicole's anger haunts me.

Nichole: Well, I think that is also part of why I feel the residual anger is that, you have made allusions to. That not being a legitimate response.

Nichole: That like, my being upset it should not be a reaction that I have, and I think that's what gets me still really upset.

,

Laurel: This is like your, your face in therapy. The closed eyes and the long pause and I'm like, oh shit.

Laurel: Oh shit. Oh yeah.

Daniel: Here comes the truth.

Daniel: there are actions of yours that I am also upset with,

Daniel: When I felt like you've just kind of made a decision that somebody is persona no grata or to use your words dead to me.

Laurel: No. That's the name of the segment dead to me.

Daniel: Yep. And. In those situations where I'm the conduit where you are passing the dead to me energy through me and onto the formerly alive person.

Laurel: This is, this is like when people use language on Instagram to like beat the algorithm.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah. They were unli the formally alive person.

Daniel: This is, this is to be, for me to beat the algorithm of Nicole being mad at me. Oh my God. I wish that there was some understanding of how hard that is for me, um, as being the, the, the in-between person. Like, 'cause it sucks.

Laurel: Yeah. That's an interesting, sorry, I'm just like drive over your conflict right now, this entire dynamic, constantly like begs the question of like, who is responsible for what in this situation.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel: And, um, Reddit would love to tell you that the hinge is responsible for everything always. Um, and they're probably a bad person and you probably need to break up with them right now. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um,

Daniel: there's only one hinge in this room right now, you guys.

Laurel: Yep. Well, sorry, you gotta go bug. You gotta go.

Laurel: But interpersonal dynamics are more complicated than that. There's multiple relationships that are happening and there's multiple, like conduits of responsibility everyone has to like suddenly be very acutely aware of what is their responsibility and what isn't their responsibility

Nichole: yeah. My responsibility right now. Is to let go of this resentment. This is shit that I get to work on. Right. I have taken your feedback about my anger and I've worked on it.

Daniel: Thank you. I I've seen that over the years.

Nichole: I take your saying that you don't like me being angry or that your judgment of being angry as that I shouldn't be angry.

Laurel: Even if we don't like your anger, we're not saying that it isn't real. Apparently you guys do

Nichole: like my anger. 'cause you guys thought that that episode love was so fucking funny.

Nichole: It was really fucking funny.

Nichole: Anyways,

Daniel: Everybody wrote in and said they want more angry to pull. Ooh, no they didn't.

Nichole: Anyways, I dunno that we answered the question, but I did really appreciate the digression.

Laurel: You the answer to the question is yes and yeah,

Nichole: answer every question.

Daniel: Shall we move along home?

Laurel: Yes. Move it along home.

Daniel: So today I've got a little bit of a crazy sexy polly.



Daniel: So just a few days ago Laurel came over for dinner and. I do not think it was anything that we fed to her.

Nichole: No. 'cause we all ate the, the same thing. True. We all ate the same thing. It's,

Daniel: I get like a text the next morning,

Daniel: that's just I am sick. I've spent all night puking and pooping I came over to take care of you and Derek came and dropped by. Mm-hmm. Like everything that you needed.

Daniel: And the reason that we did this is because we love you so much

Daniel: that we'd like to give you a spit toasting

Laurel: you son of a bitch.

Spit Toastin: Spit, spit, spit, spit from the left and right.

Daniel: So here's the moment where it's a little uh, this is your life with everybody who loves you.

Laurel: If I make fart noises over, the whole thing can't happen.

Nichole: It's gonna be patient.

Daniel: This is, we just love you all the more, the more fart noises that you make.

Nichole: I don't think that's true.

Daniel: Oh, maybe I should say spit Toasting is the segment where we just say really nice things about one of us because we love each other.

Nichole: I'm gonna start. Laurel. I really admire your commitment to organizing and activism. Whatever space you are in, you are constantly thinking about how you can be of service to your neighbor, to your coworker, to your friend. And it comes from a place of deep knowledge that is fueled by a generous heart.

Nichole: And you know your shit.

Daniel: Yes, we love you because you are a CEO's worst nightmare.

Daniel: Besides Luigi.

Laurel: I usually just get called a pit in the ass.

Daniel: So I'm gonna move straight to our special guests that we have.

Daniel: The voices who have put themselves on wax,

on wax.

Liz: Laurel knows how to make good choices. She is a smart, funny, fun person who is a joy to be around. She's hilarious and kind and welcoming and flawed, of course, but only in the best ways and. It makes you smile and laughs wholeheartedly and is silly and is up for anything. Will try anything. Even the weird stuff will say yes and just is a joy.

Liz: Laurel, I love you. You're amazing. I'm so happy that you're my friend and that. You'll be my friend forever. Love you.

Daniel: Pause for rebuttal.

Laurel: That was my joke.

Daniel: Onward and inward.

Speaker: I've always been different. Um, I look different. I eat different foods. I speak a different language. I'm from a culture nobody's heard about, so I've always been very self-conscious and I never really felt like I fit in. Laurel never made me feel that way. I, I don't know what it is. Um, if it's date day or something, or my wife and I have some time off.

Speaker: And we don't have to watch the kids. I always ask her, Hey, can we go hang out with Laurel? 'cause I know we will have a guaranteed fun time and I would just feel comfortable being myself. She has that laugh, she has that all in. Laugh her, she commits when she laughs. She doesn't there. There's no giggle. She goes all the way.

Speaker: And how can you not feel comfortable around a person like that?

Nichole: Are you bawling up your fists now?

Laurel: Just the one that's hidden

Speaker 4: Hello. Hello, this is Sean. Um, reporting to you live from the Pacific Coast of Costa Rica. I've been tasked to spit toast Laurel, and I'm having a pretty hard time doing it because Laurel is one of the most dynamic and amazing people I've ever met. A partner or not, and summing her up in words is pretty much impossible.

Speaker 4: Laurel means the world to me, and I would fucking die for her murder for her, both theoretically, metaphysically and metaphorically, and literally. She's the kindest, sweetest person I think I've ever met. And she has such a huge depth of insight and care and love and humility and sex and everything else you would want.

Speaker 4: She's artistic. She's sweet, she's cozy. She is super cute and sexy and beautiful, so fucking smart. And I feel very, very lucky to have her in my life. I love her very much and she's helped me through some of the darkest times in my life and she knows what I'm talking about. And yeah, I love her. Uh, insert some emojis here about with like hearts and hard eyes and stuff like that.

Speaker 4: 'cause I love emojis.

Daniel: Sean, we wish we could all just make emojis with our mouths right now for you. We know how much you love Laurel because everybody went beyond the suggested time limit, but you went way beyond. So we know that's as a, as a a sign of your love.



Hi, baby Derek here. Remember a bit over a year ago when you butted your nose into my business at that emo night show. Well, my life's been better ever since. Your emotional and intelligence is inspiring, and you've pushed me to even get to know myself better and be a better person. Your fierce loyalty for the people you love in your life is incredible inspiring and also sometimes terrifying.

And you're also just one of the funniest people I've ever met. The days when you and I are just ranting back and forth, laughing and coming up with insane situations are some of my favorite. I also just love the way you love your people. I love the way you love me, and I love having you in my life. What else can I say?

But I fucking love you.

Nichole: Are they both tiny fists now?

Daniel: I really think it's lovely. Like on this episode where we talked about meta more conflict, like it wasn't pleasant, but in retrospect, I'm really glad. So you could then see the big hug of Metamore energy that is around you now, Laurel,

Laurel: now that I finally got rid of all those crappy ones, let's

Speaker 2: Hi, Laurel. Uh, it's number one here. It's, it's Jeff. Um, you have been just the most incredible friend in, in every possible meaning and sense of that word. Um, you've been supportive. You have pushed me to be better. You have. Been accepting of me and of my family, and have just been amazing and incredible in this insane, ridiculous journey called life.

Speaker 2: Uh, I, I cannot imagine my life without you in it. And it, it would certainly be a poorer life. Um, with less fat for sure. Uh, I love you and I just think you're incredible.

Daniel: We had planned to do this a few weeks ago and

Daniel: I decided to wait in part because I wanted to get more of these non-partner friends of yours, people who loved you

Laurel: long before you did.

Daniel: Exactly.

Daniel: And who don't love you just for your amazing, magical pussy.

Laurel: I mean, they probably do. They just don't know it yet.

Daniel: They don't know that's the energy that is animating all movement in the universe.

Laurel: People don't believe me when I say I have friends.

Speaker 3: If you are fortunate enough to be anywhere within Laurel's orbit, you are the luckiest. Laurel is so fierce. She is fiercely kind. She is fiercely smart. And she is, uh, fiercely brave. Um, I love her so much. She is the funniest person, uh, that you might ever encounter. Uh, uh, but it'll be delivered with the absolute most deadpan face that I can't get enough of.

Speaker 3: I miss her so much, and, um, if you live close to her, I'm very, very jealous of you. I love you Laurel.

Nichole: Laurel,

Nichole: your approach to love literally changed our lives and changed our lives for the better. You were incredibly intentional, and I would say almost gentle in your approach with me as Daniel's partner. And this is well trod territory, but I cannot express how much it meant to me that you made such an effort to get to know me.

Nichole: And now I know that I've said this before, but like you mean so much to me in a way that I can't describe. I it's different and it's unique and it's a love that I, and I know that I fucking said this before, but it's, it is a love that is unlike any other love in my life and I'm so, so deeply grateful for you.

Daniel: Now can I go?

Nichole: Yes. Now you can go.

Nichole: I couldn't have The only thing I said about her, about her so obvious and not the like surface.

Daniel: It is the first thing that people notice about Laurel when she's walking down the street with her. Uh, um,

Laurel: Like picket sign.

Daniel: Picket sign. So I think that the traditional concept of love languages is bullshit.

Daniel: But then you taught me a real love language.

Laurel: Is he gonna say My pussy? Sorry. I'd be quiet now. I'm gonna stop if you're, yeah. Okay. I'm gonna back away from the microphone

Daniel: then. You taught me a new love language. A real love language. One that's not on the dumb list.

Daniel: One that you were not only fluent in, but like a genius in,

Daniel: and that's playfulness.

Daniel: It's this blend of curiosity. I. Humor, affection, capacity,

Daniel: and just like magic fairy dust, it diffuses everything you do. Conversation, sex, movement.

Daniel: It's also a kind of love that requires a sliver of distance.

Daniel: Like playfulness only works when we are clearly delineated individuals. And so as you've taught me to be more fluent in play, you've also taught me how to be more autonomous, less codependent, because playing with you is one of the most wonderful experiences I've had in my life, and I want to prioritize it every day.

Daniel: When you walk into a room and I see the spark in your eye. I'm like, I'm gonna be awake and aware today so that I can show up for you.

Daniel: I believe that you inspire everyone in your life in this way, and I've heard it over and over again in the recordings today that people sent in.

Daniel: I see it in my metamours. I see it in the energy that you bring to this podcast, to the creative endeavor that we're creating together. You're a force for good in the world, in part because you are a force for fun. But that doesn't mean that you are a manic, pixie dream girl.

Daniel: You share this superpower with the world in a way that is strong, steady, and intellectually and interpersonally brilliant.

Daniel: It's made my life way better, and it's made me better. It's made this thing that we're doing right now, possible at all in the first place. So thank you.

Laurel: You're welcome.

Daniel: You can return to the mic now, so I guess that's it. No, wait, there's a couple more. Lied. I didn't wanna be the last one. Son of a bitch.

Daniel: I wanted to give the last word to the next generation.

Speaker 5: I, you are the best. Laura, I love you so much. You are the best in the whole wide world. I love you. Wall. You wanna say anything else? No.

Daniel: You're welcome, Laurel. It's the only time that we will ever allow children on this podcast. Do it for you.

Nichole: And they also appreciated that they said no when asked to talk. Elaborate further.

Laurel: This is

Nichole: kids Well done, children good boundaries.

Laurel: They taught their kids how to have good boundaries. It's really sweet.

Daniel: Oh, I love you, Laurel. I love you girl. Love you, Laurel. Thank you.

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