Daniel: My allergies are so bad today.

Nichole: How bad are they?

Daniel: They are marginally worse than they were. The last time that I gave everybody a warning about how bad my allergies are.

Laurel: I wouldn't say marginally worse.

Daniel: Exponentially. Yeah. Exponentially.

Nichole: Yes.

Nichole: You did a Netty pot. You've taken allergy medication. You've taken Snuf.

Nichole: Smurf, which we have explained to the listener, means allergy medication that you put up your nose,

Daniel: you're making it so they don't have to go back and listen to past episodes.

I don't understand the Snuf Smurf, but I've gotta figure out what it means.

Daniel: For people who are like listening to these episodes in sequence, it is gonna be like watching David Cronenberg's the fly, but only a scene per week

Laurel: where your allergies are the fly that you're turning into.

Daniel: Yeah, I am in this context. Jeff Goldblum,

Laurel: you just wanted to create a context in which you get to be Jeff Goldblum.

Daniel: This is, this is the great catch 22 of wanting to be Jeff Goldblum. Is that, yeah, you get to be Jeff Goldblum, but like nine times out of 10 you're, , morphing into some kind of otherworldly being

Nichole: No, no, because Earth Girls are easy. He starts as an alien and then morphs into Jeff Goldberg. Oh man.

Nichole: And he's the sensitive one and he's

Daniel: aw,

Nichole: he plays piano.

Nichole: I really love that movie. I really love that movie.

Nichole: I'm so sorry, baby.

Daniel: It's okay. I'm, I'm, I'm making it. I actually seem more energetic than Laurel. Laurel.

Oh, I'm making it. Did you go out last night? Yeah. What'd you do? Uh, I once saw crash. Which one? Cronenberg Crash. Okay, good.

Nichole: You, I hate that you have to ask, but like, you have to ask. You do have to ask. Yeah. Because it could be an ironic viewing of Of the other, other, yeah, ,

Daniel: You can have like a, three car pile up and do both in the, in a row.

Laurel: Maybe. Is this a crazy, sexy poll story?

Laurel: went with Jokers Mimes in. Jokers clowns and mimes. Mm-hmm. We were a little late showing up to the theater, so like the opening credits had just started and like arms full of like popcorn and drinks and stuff. So we, we spot two seats and we shuffle in and one, as I'm shuffling in, I just plant like the entirety of my foot. On top of the foot of the person who I'm trying to shuffle past.

Laurel: I felt really bad about it.

Laurel: Sat down and as we're sitting down, we realized there's just a large table

in between us. What the fuck? There's a table like for snacks and shit. So there's like, there's three seats on one side, a table, three seats on the other side. So basically this

Laurel: couple that I just stepped on, now I'm part of their unit.

Laurel: Hi, I'm in your

Daniel: polle.

Laurel: Hi. And then And then table, and then my date on the other side with another couple.

Nichole: Oh my God.

Laurel: And to be fair, I knew it was a Cronenberg film, but I didn't know the premise.

Oh, you didn't?

Daniel: You were like, am I going to be able to make out during this Cronenberg film?

Nichole: Honestly.

Laurel: Is it the Horniest Cronenberg film?

Daniel: Well, history of Violence has that one scene,

Laurel: I haven't seen History of Violence.

Daniel: Mm. And

Nichole: video drum has, um, Debbie Harry's tits in it.

Daniel: Yeah. Both of those things are, are very condensed, pure free base moments of sexuality. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. This movie is an hour and a half of Horny.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: Yeah. For car crashes

Daniel: with some gore thrown in

Laurel: with some gore.

Laurel: Okay. Gourney. It's gourney. It was a real gurney. Oh God.

were separated by like, two feet of table for like, one of the horniest movies of all time.

Nichole: I need these vetted.

Laurel: I think you could handle, I think you, you could, are you sure? Yeah.

Laurel: I think you could handle crash. Okay. It's not as extremely gory or as much intense body horror as a lot of cronenberg. Okay. Um, it is funny and disturbing. And super horny.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: And it has James Spader and, you know, a spoonful of spader helps the medicine go down, tells

Laurel: everything go down. Yes. Yeah.

Nichole: Did we say welcome to Poly Amateur Hour? No. Okay. Yes. Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour.

Daniel: I'm Daniel.

Nichole: I'm Laurel. I'm Nicole.

Daniel: And together we are incredibly out of it. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. I mean, you two are out of it. I'm just fine. Nicole is cruising.

Daniel: Um.

Daniel just went somewhere else completely like, what's that? All of Daniel's, uh, antihistamines kicked in at once and he was like, I'm feeling fine now.

Daniel: Wow. Alright.

All right, well it's our first segment. I've got a bone to pick. Ooh,

all.

Nichole: Um, all right. Start your engines. Okay. I'm just gonna be like totally transparent. Like I'm a little nervous to tell this story. Okay. Um, but Daniel convinced me that it would be a good idea because there are other people who probably have experienced this, , and maybe,

Nichole: could find something, familiar in my story, , and know that they're not alone.

Daniel: That's how I gas leak. You is like, do it for the people. There are people counting on you to step up. They need to hear your bone.

Nichole: They need to hear my bone. All right, so.

Nichole: I, , connected with this guy on field and he and I were texting for quite a bit, back and forth,

Nichole: so it took us a while to like actually get some plans together. , and the day of I am, don't hear from him. Don't hear from him. And I'm like, Hey, so like, are we still on for tonight? And he was like, yeah, I'll be at the dog park in like 30 to 40 minutes.

Nichole: And I was like, okay, well that's not gonna work for me. I am coming home from work and uh, I need to eat and all that other stuff. And he was like, oh, okay. Well, like what time? I'm like, does five 30 work for you? He was like, yeah, sure. Meet me in front of, you know, this place. I was like, all right, cool.

Daniel: This reminds me of. that guy who stood Laurel up because he was hanging out with his bike.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, is

Daniel: there this genre of guy who only really can make plans if you intersect with their orbit?

Daniel: They're like, well, I'm gonna be at this place at this time, so if you wanna see me show up there.

Nichole: Yeah. ,

Daniel: some of you have never dated a Capricorn and it shows,

Laurel: I don't know what that means, but I'm, me,

Nichole: I'm a Capricorn, I'm a planner.

Nichole: I like to plan. So we make plans to meet in front of this place. We gotta like walk some dogs, right? Mm-hmm. Because he's, he's got a couple of dogs. So I roll up to the place 5 35. 'cause I was like, I'm gonna be cool. I'm not gonna be like right on time because I'm always fucking punctual.

Nichole: Yeah. So he's not there. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? I was like, okay, I'm here. And he's like, oh cool. All right, be right down. I was like, all right. So he pops out of like his apartment that's like right there. And I was like, so the most convenient place for you to meet me is literally right in front of your front door.

Nichole: Alright. Okay. Uh, and you couldn't even do that. Yeah. So we go for a walk. It's a beautiful day. Banner's not that bad, you know? Mm-hmm. Like I do learn a lot about old tube TVs and you know, his passion for them

Daniel: magnets.

Nichole: I think there's magnets involved. Um,

Nichole: We were like on the way back to his apartment, he was like, oh, do you want something to drink?

Nichole: Oh, you don't drink alcohol? I've got, um, I've got water, I've got lemonade mixed. And I was like, like country time? And he was like, yeah, okay. So I was listening to Margaritaville and like I was at my parents' place and all they had was Uzo. Is that what it's called? Like the Japanese

Nichole: Oh wait, yuzu

Daniel: U Yuzu is a citrus.

Nichole: Yes. So that was all they had. And so he was like, . I'm gonna mix it with some lemonade mix. I. So that's why he had the lemonade mix on hand.

Daniel: What is he like? Mm-hmm. 14. And raiding his parents fucking, he

Nichole: was hanging out 14.

Nichole: That's why this didn't work. Um, he was waiting in a kitty pool. I guess it was really hot out. I don't know. I wasn't there. Okay. Wait, wait, wait,

Daniel: wait. Back

Nichole: up

Daniel: Before you got there he was waiting in a kitty pool? No,

Nichole: no, no, no. No

Daniel: drinking,

Nichole: no Uzo,

Daniel: And Country time Lemonade cocktail.

Nichole: No.

Daniel: It's the truth now.

Nichole: But that wasn't before I got there.

Daniel: I mean, technically it was before you got there.

Nichole: Also, every question he asked, he did ask questions, but then he would interrupt my answer with his answer.

Nichole: Oh. I was like, okay,

Daniel: this isn't Jeopardy motherfucker.

Laurel: I don't think you even get to do that in jeopardy. . You wait your turn in jeopardy.

Nichole: Yeah. I think you

literally, any game show? I don't think you get to interrupt

Nichole: anything.

Daniel: I was just thinking that he had like an imaginary buzzer in his brain and he was just trying to get quickest to the buzzer.

Nichole: Yeah. Because every day's a competition. Mm-hmm. Um, so you know, I was like, okay, well this guy is hot. Let's just. You know? Yeah. Like maybe I'll be a loyal here and I'll like just see where this goes and I'll just tolerate the bullshit.

Nichole: I'll just ate and go home. I'll entertain myself. Yeah, right. we're in his apartment. I get water 'cause I don't want,

you don't want lemonade?

Nichole: Lemonade concentrate. No, do not.

Daniel: Um, he just keeps offering you country time lemonade. Are you sure? Do you want a wirth?

Daniel: There's original.

Nichole: Um. So then he's like showing me like he's got a collection of lamps. Um, and they're

Laurel: like

Nichole: designer lamps, I guess.

Laurel: Um, Jimmy Buffett and designer lamps. Okay. That's not the end.

Nichole: And it's not the worst part. It's not even the worst, worst part. Okay. . It's not even

Daniel: the worst funny part.

Nichole: Yeah. The worst funny part was he puts on some music and it's Steely Dan and he calls them the Dan and he's like, do you even know like what Steely Dan is like named after? I was like, yeah. A vibrant, yeah, like vibrate or dildo thing. Of course, everybody knows that. And he was like, yeah. I was like, no shit.

Daniel: Do you think he calls his dildos, the Dan as well?

Nichole: I think he calls his penis. The Dan

Daniel: is his name Peter?

No, I wouldn't.

Nichole: No. That

Daniel: because then we're, because then we're in a weird time loop, right?

Yeah. In a weird bizarro universe. Uhhuh, uh. It's Peter with a Dan.

Nichole: So the Dan is playing. Um, and I was like, all right, just whatever. Fuck it. I'll just start making out with this guy. I'm like, I might as well get something out of this. Right? Yeah.

Daniel: Plus Steely Dan puts you in the mood. I know this.

Nichole: It really, it really doesn't, but you know, so we're making out, and things are getting, pretty hot and heavy and like, he's a good kisser and I'm like, okay, well this could be, I guess worth my time, , worth the parking that I paid. Uh, and then I was like, okay, so like we should probably have like a history conversation and like.

Nichole: You know, a conversation that you typically have.

Daniel: Sexual health,

Nichole: sexual health conversation. Yes. So I was like, Hey, I'm allergic to latex. And he was like, oh fuck. And I was like, I have latex free condoms. They exist. It's fine.

Oh fuck. This guy doesn't know that there's condoms made out of anything other than latex.

What? There's also

Nichole: other things he doesn't know. Oh, no. Okay. Exciting. So then I say also, , I'm positive for HSV two. Uh, and just so you know, my husband and I have been having unburied sex for eight years. Yeah.

Daniel: Oh, is this another who we're raw dogging episode?

No one else apparently. Surprise. It's your husband.

Nichole: Okay. But I have never had a breakout and that's that. Yeah. Right.

Nichole: Um, I've had it for quite a while. And again, human being that I live with, that I've had been having unburied sex with, has not tested positive for it. And he tests. Like every three months. Yeah.

Daniel: I'm your canary in a coal mine, baby. I'm ready.

Nichole: I think that was part of our vows.

Daniel: Uh, for those of you who are as fucking ignorant as this dude, HSV two is a form of the herpes virus. There are two types, HSV one and HSV two. I'm positive for the one, Nicole's positive for the two combined, we're a one two punch.

Laurel: Oh my God, that bla

Daniel: Aw. And almost everybody has one or the other of these.

Daniel: It's

Laurel: incredibly common. Most people don't know they have it, and it's likely that unless you're explicitly asking. Your doctor or whomever to test you for it, that you aren't being tested for it in your regular SDI panel.

Laurel: The number of, , caregivers that, , fought me on getting tested for HSV that were like, what are you sure?

Laurel: Like, because they don't test for it, because the stigma is worse than the disease.

Daniel: So they're like, let me first look out for the mental health of this patient.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Um, but the thing is, if you're coming in there and you know what the fuck you want, like if I step up to the bar and I'm like, this is my regular cocktail that I always order.

Daniel: It's one part, HIV test, one part syphilis, one part gonorrhea. It's really complicated. This, it's, it's just like when I go to a bar really is I'm trying it just

Laurel: like when you go to a bar and I'm trying to explain my fancy ass drink. Let me explain to you how to make a boulevardier. And they're like,

Daniel: I have to put herpes in it.

Nichole: So the stigma is worse. Again, you wouldn't know that I had it or that I have it. Um, because I've never had a breakout. I've never had any kind of symptoms.

Daniel: There's the scarlet H that you have to wear though.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. So, but that's the thing is that, like, when I first was diagnosed, I, I did feel an immense amount of shame and I did feel,

Nichole: like I was dirty. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nichole: Um, if you're looking for resources, I highly recommend the podcast Something positive for positive people of people.

Nichole: Um, so. This guy,

Daniel: this fucking dude,

Nichole: this fucking guy. so I, so I tell him, you know. Mm-hmm. Because that's what you do.

Yeah.

Nichole: And he was like, oh, I just, oh, I don't know. I, I just don't think I'm gonna be the right partner for you. And I was like, okay.

Laurel: Okay. I wasn't quite asking you to be my partner yet, but,

Nichole: or like the idea that like Right.

Nichole: Partner for you is putting it on me. Yeah. Making it my problem. So then I put my pants back on and he was like, I was dating a girl for like six months that had HSV two and like, I was just like so riddled with anxiety, just like all the time. And I just, I just don't think I can do that again.

Nichole: And I was like, all right. Okay, cool. So I'm getting my shoes back on, putting on my coat. If he didn't just stop talking, I wouldn't have said, I wouldn't have been as mean. Um, he was like, oh, I just, I, I feel so bad. And I was like, yeah, you should.

Nichole: , because it is incredibly common. The risk is very low. And, it doesn't sound like you wanted to have a conversation about sexual health before having sex with me. Yeah. And then he was like, oh, you're just like. You're so sweet. And I was like, am I?

Nichole: I was just like, what the fuck kind of response is that? Like what does that mean? Like I don't know. He was just defaulting, back to like, I don't wanna feel bad. I don't wanna feel bad. Yeah. I don't wanna feel bad about like being a dick, so I'm gonna like double down on like making her feel better.

Nichole: I don't fucking know. So then like I'm leaving, I'm walking out the door and I just said, okay, well have fun with the Dan, and like, oh my God. And just left.

Daniel: Which is to be fair, what you say every day before you leave the house and

Nichole: leave me alone.

Nichole: So, I have a bone to pick with men who are unwilling to have a sexual health conversation. And then once they have it suddenly decide that like any kind of anything that you bring to the table is a deal breaker.

Laurel: It's so insane. Like, it doesn't make any sense. He would have fucked me, right?

Laurel: Had he, if he just could live in blissful ignorance, he would rather live in blissful ignorance than have to take responsibility for his own choices and boundaries. Yeah. And deal with the consequences of them.

Nichole: Yeah. Because in that conversation, he just kept putting it on me.

Daniel: it's one thing to show concern, right? To be like, oh, tell me a little bit more about that. Or be like, Hmm, I need to think about this before I engage sexually with you because it is a risk that I did not necessarily anticipate.

Daniel: Right?

Nichole: Correct.

Daniel: It is a wholly other thing to be like, uh, well I guess this is off then it is so out of touch with both the reality of STIs that exist everywhere. There's, there's probably some like, floating around in this room right now, um, but also just completely disconnected from a sense of empathy for another human being.

Daniel: Yeah. Because

Nichole: it wasn't about me, it was about him and his anxiety. Yeah. And also making out this other woman to be the problem. Yeah. That like, her having HSV two caused him so much anxiety for six months. Mm.

Laurel: He didn't learn how to manage his anxiety or he didn't learn anything more about HSV,

Nichole: like, no, he didn't, because he couldn't tell me anything about it.

Laurel: Sometimes I just think some people shouldn't be allowed to have sex.

Laurel: Like if you're gonna, if you're gonna remain that willfully ignorant

Yeah.

Laurel: You, and you have to be willfully ignorant. You have to try at it. Yeah, yeah. To to date someone, to continually see someone for six months that has disclosed a condition to you and not bothered to learn anything about it and to make it about yourself.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: so it's a 10 minute drive back home. Yeah. Right. So I did spend those 10 minutes going like, God, you're such a fucking idiot.

Yeah. Like,

Nichole: just feeling shame, feeling guilt, feeling like, well, you know, like the next person that I disclosed to, they're also gonna reject me.

Nichole: So I, I scheduled that date because something was happening during that week that I didn't want to. Face mm-hmm. That I didn't want to acknowledge was happening, I was trying to just distract myself and, you know, bad on me. Like I was using another human being to distract myself from like, feelings that I actually had to process.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. I Just realized like, wow, that that failed in such a spectacular way that maybe this is telling me I should just focus on myself for a minute.

Hmm.

Nichole: Maybe I should do some, like self-care stuff that's just for me. Yeah. It was a very alcoholic thing of me to do to, to try and like use this person as distraction.

Daniel: would like to discourage you from locating any of the blame for this on the way you acted that somehow your motivations weren't pure, you weren't here for the right reasons,

Nichole: be out night. One of the, that's why,

Daniel: or that somehow the universe is telling you something with this. The only thing the universe was telling you is that this guy is a fucking asshole. And the universe was using this man as the, uh, voice, as the voice piece, as the

Laurel: mouthpiece,

Daniel: the mouth hole.

Laurel: Uhhuh.

Daniel: Yeah. To let you know, I am an asshole here.

Daniel: I stand. Hear me roar.

Nichole: Is that a steely dance song? I know, I,

Nichole: anyways, there was every opportunity for me to go down a rabbit hole of, , feeling shame and feeling guilt and feeling, yeah. Less than, and I didn't fuck you. Yeah. I took care of myself and I didn't let this. Just like totally destroy me. Yeah. Whereas I think six months ago, I would've let this totally destroy me. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: I would also like to extend a little bit of a time travel bone to pick. It's another one of those little wormholes where I could speak into it and speak to the past.

Daniel: Right. Oh, okay. Right. Mm-hmm. Daniel of 10 years ago. Mm-hmm. Was a little bit more of an asshole about these things. Not quite to the asshole end of the spectrum as this dude was. Yeah. But I was definitely on the asshole spectrum about STIs because I have OCD that occasionally focuses, especially on STIs.

Daniel: Like it's been my niche for a long time or it was my niche for a long time until I moved on to other things.

Daniel: well, before I start trying to defend my past self, lemme say, Hey, past self fucking, you could have done a lot better. You know? Mm-hmm. I remember you and me, Nicole, there were people who showed up in my life. Before you knew that you were positive

mm-hmm.

Daniel: Who were positive and we were kind of like, Hmm.

Daniel: Are we actually ready to have that kind of risk added to our lives on a regular basis? And we kind of decided against it as an insular STI defense unit, which was not fucking cool.

Nichole: No. Hmm.

Daniel: But I did not like suddenly say, oh, I guess this is off on a date. I guess I'm not the man for you. Yeah.

Nichole: being the man for me, like that's what I was there for in the first place. Yeah.

Daniel: For me, there were a couple of like phases, right? And it's just a matter of kind of being in the world for long enough where, I'm not sure why I'm saying it like Long Island, long enough.

Daniel: I, yeah, I was like,

Laurel: goose, excuse me. Me.

Daniel: ERP, for those of you who don't know, is like the gold standard treatment for OCD, and it involves exposing yourself to the thing that you are afraid of. The idea is to just exist at the knife's edge of discomfort for as long as possible. And the thing about s STIs is they're so common that just being alive in the world for long enough, you're gonna give yourself some natural ERP to that. In order to not do that kind of personal work, you have to willfully avoid it.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Daniel: And this dude has been willfully avoiding it into his forties.

Yep. Wow.

Nichole: Yep. It is super special artists loft surrounded by lamps,

Laurel: you know, for someone living in so much light.

Daniel: Maybe he thinks the lamps protect him from STIs. Like they screw the, they screw the bugs away. It's like

Laurel: the sun. It's like solar radiation killing the bacteria.

Nichole: Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't mind if he drank bleach, but

Daniel: I mean, this is a little too close to home for my hypochondria days. But maybe he just like uses the lamps to inspect his junk.

No, that's you baby.

Laurel: I know If he, if, if he did that, he would've wanted to have a conversation before having sex. Yes. Yeah. He would've actually cared. Yes. That's like the, the most obnoxious cognitive dissonance of the whole thing. Yeah. Of just like, well, I'm still gonna fuck, and I'm still gonna expose myself to risk, but I get to pretend that I don't know about it.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yeah. You weren't actually risk adverse if you were willing to jump in and have sex without a conversation. Yeah. You weren't actually risk averse.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: He's just an asshole. Yeah, just an asshole. Anyways,

Daniel: This segment is been, is he an asshole?

Nichole: Yep.

Daniel: Uhhuh

Nichole: and I didn't pick his bone. The end

Daniel: bone. Rejected.

Nichole: Take it back.

Anyways,

So is it time for ask the amateurs? Let's ask the amateurs.

Daniel: Wait, do we have any amateurs here?

Laurel: But, but loads of them, we had a very special stu reach out over Instagram. You can also send us questions on Instagram. We can, uh, be found at Poly Amateur Hour.

Laurel: Um, you can also send us questions on our website anonymously@polyamateurhour.com, or you can email us at poly amateur hour@gmail.com. Stu writes,

Laurel: I'm in my first relationship ever and my first experience with polyamory. I have been in the poly relationship for over a year and a half with my partner who is married. Recently the possibility of hooking up with other people has been on the table because my partner and her husband also have always been open.

Laurel: And for her being open to connections with other people is part of her poly identity, which I respect. I'm struggling with jealousy and feeling replaced even though she is not seeking another partner slash anything more than a physical experience with someone else. I also have not been actively seeking other connections for myself because I'm not really a makeout with a stranger at the bar person.

Laurel: I'm demi leaning, but should I try? Thank you. Signed a very insecure, mentally ill girly who has abandonment issues, which I think we can all relate to.

Nichole: Yes. So the situation yeah. Is that Stu is in a relationship with a woman who is married. Yes. And they've been basically exclusive with each other except for the marriage.

Laurel: Yeah, it sounds like a polyus situation.

Daniel: The husband's just invisible.

Laurel: Yeah, he doesn't exist. Fuck that guy.

Nichole: Okay. Normy Corner with poly fidelity,

Laurel: Poly fidelity is a type of poly relationship. I don't understand. , and that's all you all really need to know. It's deciding that like, even though there are, multiple partners in a situation, that it is closed within that. So

Laurel: husband aside. our Stuber and her partner haven't been dating anybody. Mm-hmm. Outside of this three person dynamic

Nichole: now dating other people is on the table. Yes.

Laurel: I did ask a few more follow-up questions 'cause if you message us like, I'm gonna chat with you. Yeah, yeah. This is gonna happen. Um, and I like, it's only a couple messages back and forth.

Laurel: Didn't dig super deep. But my impression from it is not that it has to be romantically exclusive, but just that her partner has been assuring her that like, don't worry, I'm not looking for anything mm-hmm. Of that type. I'm just ready to kind of like hook up with some people and you know, feel like that would be a fun, nice thing to do, but I'm not getting the oppression that it's like, you're not allowed to have romantic connections.

Laurel: Okay. And that's actually one of the things that I was like, that feels like a dangerous reassurance to make.

Daniel: I had the exact same thought.

Laurel: Me too. Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: Because you, can absolutely say like, I have no intention of looking for this thing. That's the fastest way to find it, baby.

Laurel: Like,

Nichole: the second you're not looking, he will appear. That's what like, they tell every single woman in their forties. Yeah.

Laurel: And, and it creates, a very specific paradigm in which it is okay. And stable to. Engage with another person outside of this relationship.

Laurel: But there are so many, infinite number of ways to interpret any kind of perceived transgression outside of that. Yeah. And let it destroy your entire sense of security because it's built on a tower of cards.

Yep.

Daniel: So I would one, as the stubbert in this situation, not seek out reassurance at all.

Daniel: Yeah. Again, this is our official ERP episode, everybody.

Laurel: I was thinking when you were talking about that, I was like, oh, that's a segue into this conversation.

Daniel: You gotta get comfortable with not being reassured, not seeking the reassurance, but also maybe not accepting it too.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. If I am the stupid ones removed in this situation. When I put myself in their place, I can't imagine making these reassurances without feeling a little bit of sense of duress. And maybe that's just 'cause it's me and , role doesn't fit too well. But if I'm like, oh, don't worry, I won't love anybody.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. , so when I put myself in your place, Stu, I don't feel good about receiving such reassurances. And when I put myself in the stupid once removed place, I don't feel so good about giving them.

Daniel: So my, , completely amateur, unfounded advice of this situation is to try and exit that dynamic as quickly as possible. Um, not that relationship, not the relationship, the dynamic of. You receiving reassurance and them giving reassurance. Mm. About there being safe parameters around what your partner is doing.

Nichole: Would also challenge the notion of finding a stranger at the bar to make out with.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: So as somebody who is also pretty demi mm-hmm. Leaning demisexual, we've talked about it before.

Nichole: As somebody who takes a while to develop like a real attraction to somebody, , I'm also not somebody who's gonna make out with a stranger at a bar.

Mm-hmm.

Nichole: You know, um, did it in my past. Don't need to do it again. Did and. It's not a competition.

Nichole: So if your partner wants to, you know, rack up the notches in their bedpost, like that doesn't mean that you have to too, because surprise, it won't make you feel better.

Mm-hmm.

Nichole: , see previous story when I try to distract myself from feelings that I was having

Laurel: yeah, two things. One. To Daniel's point about kind of joking about, like that's your amateur response to the reassurance dynamic. It's funny because that is a very experienced response to that dynamic because the inexperienced one is like, saying those reassurances, like I have no intention of this.

Laurel: Of course not. and I've been in that position, like when I first opened up my marriage And it can feel very real and very true and it can feel like a good thing to say to that person until you have all the experience of that fucking up. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And ever since all of that has like fucked up for me, I cannot say those things anymore. Yep,

yep.

Laurel: Um, and it feels gross and weird and untrue to say those things.

Laurel: 'cause even if it's not what I'm looking for, I know what I'm open to. Mm-hmm. And. I know the vast amount of like possibilities and things that can like arise out of that.

Laurel: And then on , the making out or like thinking about dating part, I saw my first reaction one, I did think of you Nicole. 'cause I was like, oh, Nicole is someone who leans more demisexual but you still have like hookup partners.

Laurel: Yes. Um, definitely. And still like enjoy that kind of thing. So it One, not creating that dichotomy of like, just because you're not gonna go with a home with a stranger at the bar doesn't mean that you can't develop a fun flirty, yeah. Sexual relationship that's not super serious with another person.

Laurel: If you are open to it, if you are like, oh, I'm in a polyamorous relationship, I would like to just experience the world as a polyamorous person and be open to finding connections and not.

Laurel: Live in a default monogamy mindset. I feel like that could be a really good thing. ' cause then you do get to experience , like, okay, now I know what it's like to be interested and excited about this person. Mm-hmm. And still deeply care for my girlfriend.

Nichole: Yes. Because Stu has also told us that this is her first one relationship.

Nichole: Yeah. Two Polly relationship. Yeah. And spoiler, that is like being attracted and exploring relationships with other people is like a huge part of being Polly. Yeah. Um, it's not that just that your partner happens to have another relationship. Yeah. Like you also get to experience other relationships.

Daniel: Yeah.

Daniel: I feel like maybe we've been spending too much time together. I. All of us. What, what do you mean? Like I wrote down some notes when I was thinking about this question earlier.

Daniel: I literally wrote down, don't create this false dichotomy.

Oh really? Oh my God.

Daniel: Gross. Yeah. So on the topic of making out with strangers in bars, two out of three of us are people who, who are the type, who would make out with strangers in bars.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. So maybe you're hoping for a little bit of that advice,

Laurel: just do it. Come on,

Daniel: don't worry about it. But I don't think it's a great dichotomy to create where that there are only kind of two gears

Mm mm-hmm.

Daniel: Of relationship. There's either demisexual where you are pretty exclusive with people that you have created long term connections with. That's it. Or there is the type that make out with strangers in a bar. Right? Yeah. Like if you can open yourself up to the spectrum of flirting with people in a park,

Laurel: you know what sounds creepy.

Laurel: But anyways, I mean, yeah. I mean it'll, it's also the most wholesome thing, but also in this day and age. Sounds creepy somehow.

Daniel: Yeah, it's true. It does. Yeah. Yeah. It's like not that park.

Laurel: No. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. 'cause I am a living example of that person who like I experienced both.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah. I might not make out with a stranger at a bar. I might though. You don't know. We'll see where the night takes me, and I do. Tend to develop strong relationships with people that I've known for a while. Mm-hmm. That's just, It's not even just developing relationships.

Nichole: It is also attraction.

Daniel: Okay. I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try and connect a bunch of dots,

Laurel: okay?

Daniel: Okay. You ready?

Laurel: Get out, get out the red yarn.

Daniel: When we were talking about this bone to pick situation when you were talking about how you were uncomfortable with sharing it, you were like, oh, but like, this is the worst possible situation that I'm sharing with people.

Daniel: initially I thought that you meant, oh, people are going to think that contracting HSV two is like the worst possible scenario, but then you were like, no, I'm talking about having somebody reject you. Because of your HSV two, and I am just preoccupied now with the way that all of this connects back to a concept , of risk, sexual health risk one.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Emotional risk. Mm-hmm. When you put yourself like out there to actually get rejected

mm-hmm.

Daniel: Emotional risk in this stupid situation where they are subjecting themselves to the risk of being rejected or deprioritized with their partner.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Not just how much risk you are comfortable with, but how much risk you are interested in holding in order to perhaps have a more expansive life. Again, official ERP episode, like if you can be in these situations where you're not totally safe, you might be a lot happier in the long run. Safe emotionally, I'm speaking?

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like I think that Nicole, I. You're probably better for this experience of putting yourself at risk and being rejected and then understanding that you were okay.

Nichole: Yeah, yeah. I would say that. Yeah.

Nichole: I think that makes a lot of sense because I'm feeling in this question a lot of anxiety, right?

Nichole: Yeah. It's one of those questions of like, how do I manage my jealousy? How do I, mitigate feeling bad feelings and you're going to feel bad feelings. That's just what it is. Yeah. , it's made tougher because this is your first relationship ever. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: So you don't necessarily have the muscle memory of being rejected, like in a mono sense, in a polys sense.

Nichole: Like I've been rejected in both sense. All the senses. E every way you could be rejected. I have been rejected and

in, in the sixth sense. Yeah. D

Nichole: rejected by a ghost, you know, like, I'm, I'm cross plane,

not desirable. Um, I've astral projected into rejection. Yeah. Astral

Nichole: rejection. Oh, that's a name of a band.

Nichole: so there's some work to be done. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Nichole: there Don't know how much reading you've done. We don't know how, if you have a therapist, we don't know if you have friends that you can talk to about this.

Nichole: because we can't ignore the fact that this is the first one. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's rich territory to turn you off of polyamory forever. Yes. Yeah. , which we don't want for you. Yeah. This instead can be an opportunity to do some personal growth and some relationship growth.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.

Laurel: I was also wondering, I was like, 'cause yeah, I don't know, like the entire history of this relationship or how it came into the polyamory or how, um, like her partner and her partner's husband came to it, but I'm like, oh, I wonder if she has a relationship with her metamor, the husband, and he has any like, like,

Nichole: um, good question.

Laurel: Wisdom Yeah. To offer of like, yeah. Yeah. At some point a year and a half ago, my wife started dating you and now you're a big part of her life and like, what is that? Yeah.

Nichole: , That is a very good point.

Daniel: I mean, my impression from the dearth of information in the letter was just that he is sitting there on the barka, lounger being like, beer me, you know? And they're having all these emotional conversations. You know, the wife is like, oh, you know, I'm trying to really make sure that Stu is feeling really reassured as I go and look around for, and he's like, mm-hmm.

Clip: I am the man and a man's home is his coffin.

Daniel: This is just showing our

biases against husbands. Yeah. Hey,

Clip: Don't you understand? I just want what every married woman wants, someone besides her husband to live with.

Laurel: I mean, yeah, Nicole and I are having all these deep, empathetic conversations and you're just over here just like. Just do the ERP man. Just write down like the absolute shittiest worst

case scenario and live with it.

Daniel: Jesus. Make it sound so dark.

Did we answer the question? I think so. I hope so. I think so.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

It's gonna be okay.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Don't worry about it.

Easy, easy for us mentally. Ill girlies to do.

Laurel: My, my, my one concern here because yeah, when I read her question, I immediately thought about the ERP stuff and I was like, oh, could it hurt to really to go worst case scenario with it mm-hmm. And be like, okay, your girlfriend like falls madly in love with somebody else, and then wants to deprioritize your relationship or, or you break up and, and then, then what?

Laurel: You're gonna be okay. And then I was thinking about it from like a mental health practitioner standpoint, and I was like, well, I don't know the ways in which she is mentally ill, and maybe the

ERP is not the right path to go down.

Yeah. Maybe that makes things a hell of a lot worse. Yeah.

Daniel: The line at the beginning of Anna Corina is all happy. Families are the same, but every unhappy family is unhappy in their own way.

Daniel: Hmm. I think about this a lot in terms of poly people in that, you know, all monogamous relationships are pretty much the same, but every non-monogamous relationship is non-monogamous in its own way.

Hmm hmm.

Daniel: But I'm also thinking about it in terms of mental illness here. So please, please, please take everything that we say with a grain of salt.

Oh no, I did, I make you feel like you needed to put a disclaimer on it.

Daniel: Yeah. 'cause your mental illness is not my mental illness.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel: And if you believe that you're sharing mental illness, that's a whole other type of mental illness.

Daniel: What's up next?

Laurel: Is this Polly?

Laurel: We're gonna, we're gonna do another song for, it's this Polly Today, and this time we're gonna feature the B 50 Twos Love Shack Baby, I've never seen that music video before. Are you serious? Really? Yeah. I'm like realizing that now. And also I'm realizing that the Love Shack is like the Atlanta mod version of Burning Man. Oh my

God.

Daniel: What did they burn? An effigy, like a, a giant moped.

Yeah, the wooden moped.

Daniel: I think the love shack has gotta also be a fucking sex club too, right? Like dancing in a rubbing, wearing next to nothing set, way back in the middle of a field there's, there's glitter on the mattress.

Daniel: Why do they have a mattress you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good point.

Laurel: Good point. . There's also clearly some homesteading going on in the background.

Yes,

Nichole: yes. I had never noticed that about Yeah. The music video. But there is a lady taking a bath for some reason. Yeah.

Daniel: Like, there are people who live 24 7 at the Love Shack.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: And then there are a couple of dudes in the garden. Gardening. Yeah. Well, someone's

Laurel: gotta provide the meal, I guess

Daniel: When I first started thinking about this song for it is this poly I. It started just snowballing in my mind. I was like, oh my God. Oh my God. It is poly. It is so poly. It is just pure, unadulterated, poly energy. Even if it isn't intellectually poly or states, anything that is explicitly poly.

Daniel: It is just, ,, the ultimate poly fucking final boss of songs. Okay. Explain Yourself. Yeah. The Love Shack is like this metaphor for completely free love where everybody comes to it is inclusive of all races, all sexual propensities, all relationship styles, except that you don't see anybody partner up at the Love Shack.

Daniel: Everybody is dancing as independent beings. Like there is no coupling up that we see.

Mm-hmm. That's true.

Daniel: Um. There appears to be some type of public sex thing going on in the lyrics. 'cause there's a mattress somewhere. , The Chrysler, that's as big as a whale that seats 20.

Daniel: This is the Chrysler of inclusivity.

Nichole: Oh my God.

Daniel: Everybody, everybody get into the Chrysler. Come on. Our car fits everyone.

The Chrysler inclusivity.

Oh my God. Every, every major company with a DEI initiative needs a Chrysler of inclusivity. It's not real unless you have one,

Nichole: but that's their only initiatives. They're like, look, look, we got a Chrysler of inclusivity parked in the parking lot. We're good. It's like, get in the bus. Gus.

Daniel: I mean, maybe large old school combustion engine American vehicles is the only type of de I initiatives that we could get away with anymore.

Nichole: Yeah.

Nichole: Oh, man. I mean, you were gonna have to convince me about its polyness, , because when you first brought this to the table, I was like, what? It's just a dance song. I don't understand how it could possibly be poly. It's not about relationships. It's literally just about getting down In an old Shaq

Daniel: It's the Shaq Damour shaq is only half of the name of the song. You have to, you have to give some attention to the Love

Nichole: I, that song, I mean, I've heard it 900 million times and it still rips. It's still fucking good, man. Yeah, like and Laurel, you have to have a Love Shack themed party now.

Nichole: Yeah. I think that's the way to go. Yeah. It

Laurel: really

Nichole: resonates

Laurel: with me. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Like my child brain did always clinging to the shack aspect of the song. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I really did picture like a decrepit shack. Mm-hmm. Uh, but actually listening to the lyrics a little more and watching the video, it is much more of a burner

retreat kind, free love kind of ordeal.

Nichole: Okay. So I have heard this song 900 million times. Yeah. But I still don't know what tin roof rusted means. Yeah. I don't, anybody here know, know what that means?

Daniel: I think that it is just a little bit of joyous gibberish, and the part of the complete openness and anarchic spirit of the love shack is to embrace and accept tin roof rusted.

All right.

Daniel: Without trying to make sense of it, this is our ERP episode. You have to be at ease with the

Laurel: Well, as you were saying that, I was like, oh, that's part, like, that it was part of the metaphor, like, yes, our love shack has a rusted tin roof. It's just

Nichole: part of the bag, baby. Yeah, but it's the answer to the question.

Nichole: Your what? I'm like, that's what I don't understand is like, I guess my tin, my tin roof rusted. I dunno.

Daniel: Alright. Alright, you guys, you guys

Nichole: what, what, what, what

Daniel: philosophy paper here. All right. I believe that the love shack is also a metaphor for one's physical body because you have a tin roof that is rusted.

Daniel: It is open to the elements.

Daniel: Uhhuh love rules in the love shack. I haven't seen you get this excited since

Laurel: I know like Daniel has the energy of someone who is just like really onto something. Yeah. It's like a major break in the case.

Nichole: That's what it feels like. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

Daniel: yeah. You guys, I wanna start a cult.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Well Daniel, you have convinced me. , This is Polly.

Laurel: Yeah. Like I feel very open to it and I don't know if that's just the drugs you gave me earlier.

Nichole: It's, it's, yeah. I kind of wanna give you all my money.

Daniel: Yeah, I believe you. It's the psychotropic effects of the love shack. Your heart has been open.

Laurel: Yeah.

Laurel: It's just a little place where we can get together. Yeah. It's just a funky old shack.

Nichole: Aw. It's set way back.

Laurel: They were having so much fun. Everyone except the woman in the bath. I don't know what her deal was, but like everyone else was having a great time. Yeah. She was annoyed.

Daniel: I mean, at any kind of orgy party, there has to be somebody who has already gone to sleep and is taking a bath. Nicole.

It's true. You looked at me. It's true. Yeah.

Nichole: I guess I'm the woman in the bath.

Daniel: I mean, to each their own. That's the thing with the love shack is you don't have to participate in Yeah. Glitter mattress orgy.

Nichole: You could just go take a bath. Chill. You are selling this so hard and I am buying it. I am buying everything that you're selling.

Nichole: That you're selling. Gobbling up. Yeah.

Daniel: Just take a bath in the middle of the tub.

Nichole: Maybe not that. I don't,

I

Laurel: don't buy that. I keep working. She keep working, working, shopping. Keep working shopping. That one,

Daniel: uh, Nicole has already started us on the path of declaring our allegiances. Yes, it's Polly.

Daniel: I'm gonna also say surprise. Yes, it's poly.

Laurel: It's so Polly. I'm gonna ring in my 40th rotation around the sun with a love shack themed birthday. I am so fucking excited about that. It's gonna be

Nichole: good.

Daniel: I think. This is also good inspiration for us to expand our horizons in the media that we're looking at for is this poly to include things that their polyness is all about. The vibes.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I'm game. Yeah, I'm game for the metaphysical polyness.

Nichole: Yeah. If we can get more red string,

Daniel like,

Nichole: yeah,

yeah. What are the conditions under which we need to create this, Daniel that's like, wait guys, I got it.

Daniel: It's a specific mixture of about six different antihistamine meditations. Yeah. Talk

about all that.

Nichole: And Fred Schneider.

Daniel: Fred Schneider is the only medicine I need.