Nichole: okay. I have a theory. Okay. You ready? Yeah. Yeah. All right. I think that Celine song writer, director of past lives, Uhhuh, and most recently materialists.

Daniel: Okay. Is actually Elvis.

Nichole: No. Oh shit.

Daniel: Did she fake the moon landing? Is she one of the elders of Zion?

Nichole: I was gonna say, when is it gonna get to antisemitism?

Nichole: No, I have a theory, not a conspiracy theory. Okay. , I think her and her husband, are interested in non-monogamy. Oh. Because he wrote challengers. Oh. And so all three movies that I've seen by them have some element of, have some love triangle, some kind of,

Laurel: yeah. .

Laurel: Interesting Uhhuh, or maybe they just had a really shitty throuple

Nichole: in college and they need to work it out through their arts. Yeah.

Daniel: This makes me think this couple is so fucking tense I mean, You might say that the running theme in all of these movies is, some degree of permeability of the monogamous relationships, but it's also, , like a , championship game level.

Daniel: Intensity of tension.

Laurel: Yeah. Yes, yes. Both of the films challenger and past lives have some element of longing. And , like measuring the past and present.

Mm.

Nichole: Yes. And so does Materialists.

Nichole: Okay. Interesting. Yeah. And it's definitely about, like a central woman. Yes. Vacillating between two men who are so different from each other and bring out different aspects of the central female character

Daniel: is one of them. Pedro Pascal.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: I feel like Pedro Pascal is in this kind of ascendancy right now.

Daniel: Yes. He's the Idriss Elba of 2025, where everybody has just got a boner beyond genders, beyond sexual preferences. Like Pedro Pascal is now transcending all sexuality to inhabit our bodies.

Laurel: Oh. He's gonna be the next sexiest man of the year. Huh? Do you think so?

Daniel: Sexiest Man of the Year is like from People Magazine, right. Is that right? I dunno. Yeah. I feel like it guarantees that. You're sexy from a completely out of touch vantage point.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. You have to be like, tawdry, sexy, not like man of the people sexy.

Daniel: No. I feel like you have to be like, desirable for like

Nichole: middle America.

Daniel: Yeah. And middle age too. I think it's like, you need to be Marian material, it feels like, but that's what Pedro is. I feel like I believe that Pedro Pascal is a little bit too, sexual subculture. He's a little bit too one of us actually to make Sexiest Man alive. who's projecting their desires now?

I think he's a

Nichole: sexuality unto himself. Mm. Like, I think you can be Pedro Sexual.

Nichole: I feel like his support of queer and trans causes . It doesn't come across as patronizing or just giving lip service. Like it comes across like very earnestly. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: People are always projecting as to who they think is Polly, right?

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Who they think might have, people are always, people are always doing that. I we're always doing that. Yeah. Well, I dunno, somebody came up to me, at the party last night and was like talking about, Titi.

Daniel: Right. And how him and his girlfriend were making out with another actor on this balcony. Yes. And the world was watching, like they're, they're adoring fans.

Laurel: Why wasn't I watching? You don't remember this? No.

Nichole: Oh, I remember it. How am I so oblivious to this? The second it happened? Like, oh man.

Nichole: Yeah.

Nichole: Was somebody asking you as if you were the authority on who is Pauline? Who is not?

Daniel: No, it was more like, oh, you haven't talked about that yet.

Daniel: Jesus Christ. Like Laurel said, where the fuck was I?

Laurel: Yeah, where was I?

Daniel: I mean, if anything, it would be a very brief poll and public invasion of pro privacy. But we have been prising all over the place lately.

Daniel: And honestly, I'm starting to get insecure about the number of rap songs that I put into any given episode.

Nichole: We'd also be like seven years too late. That happened so long ago. So we just have a,

Laurel: a segment called News to Laurel.

Laurel: I'm like,

Daniel: wait, what

Laurel: happened in Sex in the City?

Daniel: I mean, the theme of this podcast is old news Dead Leonards. Yeah. And today, actually, we're going to be telling a very oldie but scary.

Oldie. But scary. Yeah. Crazy. Oh, that's right. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. But first, welcome to Poly Amateur Hour. Oh, nice. I'm Daniel.

I'm Laurel.

I'm Nicole.

Nichole: Good. Save.

Someone's gotta get this train on the tracks. Yeah. Choo.

Daniel: Um. Every time. Now I'm thinking about the orgy conductor's cap. Every time we mention trains now trains are ruined. For me. The purity of like model train sets and you know, my childhood, I was such a model train enthusiast.

Daniel: No you

Laurel: weren't. No, you were in the corner with your fucking ventriloquist dummy. You were a magic kid.

Daniel: You make it sound like I'm fucking the vent dummy.

Nichole: You made him sexual. Yeah. You named your current ventriloquist dummy after your penis.

Daniel: I was on the spot. You're like, what's his name? You did this for a minute.

Daniel: I thought that you were talking about the ventriloquist dummy that I had as a child and that I made him sexual by like influencing him somehow

Daniel: with all your dirty stuff you sexualized this ventriloquist dummy. I learned it

from you dad.

Daniel: Well, he always says morning wood.

Nichole: I hate, I hate that.

Nichole: And you can't escape it saying Welcome to poly

Daniel: amateur hour. Yep, we too on

Laurel: that.

Daniel: I, I know, but now it's my running gag that I've forgotten that we've done it.

Laurel: You, I thought that was just one time.

Daniel: Well, I forgot that I did the gag before, so it's a little meta.

Uh,

Daniel: so. At the party last night a story came up that is like a formative story for I feel like this little, , corner of our molecule here. Yeah. Yes. Right? Yes. And I realized that we've never told it on the podcast.

Laurel: So sorry to anybody who was at the party last night, this is probably your sixth or seventh time hearing this story.

Laurel: Yeah. I was gonna apologize to any

Nichole: of our friends. Yeah. Because they've all heard this story multiple times.

Laurel: So this is a

Daniel: very special kind of story that we like to tell every now and then on Poly Amateur Hour, it's a story about our dogs.

Laurel: Oh. We're branding it as a story about our dogs not as a crazy, sexy polly. I think it is also a crazy sexy Polly story as both, both both theme songs. Both theme songs.

Laurel: Ah, fine. Thank

Daniel: you. Consider it played.

Daniel: It's not fair that I am the producer too. So like, I'm not insulated from the process, with like Wendy on Greatest Jen. They have to like communicate with her and like email her to ask for things and now you can just bully me into getting whatever you want live.

Laurel: I have the feeling that they ask in recording for things.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. From Wendy.

Daniel: This is true. And then Wendy responds with a drop. I

Laurel: love

Daniel: that.

Laurel: One day maybe we can afford a windy pretty to tell you. No. To tell us no.

Nichole: All right.

Daniel: So we had these neighbors, we had a relatively civil relationship with them. The wife was an elder, middle-aged horse lady.

Yep.

Daniel: Chain smoker of menthol cigarettes. Yep. And the husband, prison guard.

Nichole: Yeah. And we never, ever, ever talked to him.

Daniel: No. He had extremely passive aggressive prison guard energy. Like we would look out the window and he would be just mowing the lawn in angry silence. Yeah. It always made me think of the Golden State Killer and how obsessed he was with his lawn.

Daniel: Whenever I see people that like lawn intensive,

Nichole: but they also remember they passive aggressively mowed our lawn because it was really bad.

Daniel: But they got within one week, two husky puppies. And a German Shepherd puppy. Jesus. Yeah. Wow. And they did not walk them. Oh, babies. Yeah. They would take them out front for a little piddle, bring 'em back in.

Laurel: For anyone who's like not familiar, Huskies have a ton of energy. Correct. And need to be exercised to extremes and engaged mentally.

Daniel: They not only need to run a lot, they need to sing.

They need to sing. Aw, yeah. So they did. Aw babies. Yeah.

Daniel: one day I come home and I let Dashel out, look out the back window and there is not one dog running his usual zoomies, but four dogs just tearing up the yard.

Daniel: I mean, thank God that they got along. So the Huskies had dug under the fence.

Laurel: They

Nichole: tunneled in.

Daniel: Yeah, they

Nichole: tunneled in for some sweet dashel. they had been working on that. Yeah. Oh yeah. For like a couple of days.

Daniel: Yeah. This is like a Shawshank redemption situation.

Laurel: Yeah. There's a little poster on the other side.

Daniel: Poster of Dashel. Yeah.

Nichole: In the Rita Hayworth position.

Daniel: Uhhuh. Oh my God. this happens a few times

Daniel: they put some like wiring on the other side and stuff, trying to keep the dogs out. But these are determined huskies.

Nichole: they tell us that they're moving, so they're moving across the country. And the wife's sister moves in to help them ostensibly.

Daniel: And the sister brings with her two angry, neglected pit bulls. They, they have reason to be angry. I don't, I don't blame these, these pit bulls.

Laurel: I don't even know why you have to mention that. They're pit bulls. Where's the relevance to the story?

Daniel: Because they're strong.

Laurel: They do have strong mouths. Jaws strongies. Yep. For the audience. I have a long history of adopting pit bulls and I love them. I'm that white lady.

Daniel: So these pit bulls are like constantly growling at the edge of the fence. This is kind of a sandlot situation. The beast. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I wish James Earl Jones was on the other side.

Nichole: Not That

Daniel: would be such a better story. You know, I've never seen that movie, so. Oh, spoiler alert.

Daniel: Wait, so it's, so it's not actually a dog, is it Not a

Laurel: dog. It's Jones's. James Earl Jones

Daniel: on all fours, just growling.

Laurel: He's not on all floors. He just has that, uh, like a trumpet like kind of thing like a gramophone kind of like, yeah. And he's

Nichole: just like next to the fence, like making that noise because he really, he just really hates that.

Nichole: The kids are like,

Daniel: and some, I cannot tell if you're fucking with me or not.

Daniel: I thought it was a little dog. I thought that was the point of that story. No story. No, there's no dog. You kept fucking blowing my mind. It's like fucking, it's like fucking fight.

Daniel: This is like a fight club situation.

We're fucking with you.

Daniel: You guys really fucking tired. I'm really tired. Is not fair. It's not fair. Do you fucking

Nichole: sorry. It's not very off. I was, I know that you're gonna retort this. It's not very often that Laurel and I get to gang up on.

Nichole: Anyways.

Oh my God. Okay.

Daniel: Okay. So James Earl Jones. Where was I?

Daniel: .

Daniel: Dog. Vader.

Nichole: So two ancient pit bulls, ancient angry pit bulls. Two husky puppies and a German shepherd puppy.

Nichole: And yes, the pit bulls keep like growling on the other side of the fence. We keep saying like, Hey, can we really make sure that those pit bulls do not get through the fence?

Nichole: Yeah. And we keep getting told, oh no, there's, they're so fat. There's no way that they'll be able to get over all of the barriers we put up.

Nichole: so this goes on for like about a month, and then Daniel, your grandmother passed away.

Nichole: You were the only family member who was there. And you also. Had to take responsibility for the apartment. Yep. For closing up all of the accounts. You were the executor of the estate. And Jewish So like had to get her body in the ground in like three days. So like

Yeah.

Nichole: Stop

Daniel: Yeah. You gotta get her in the ground while she's fresh.

Daniel: Before the die book. Uh, comes after you light a candle. Cover the mirrors, Yep. Sit and whale. so this is several months after me and Laurel started seeing each other. And this was a real, like, formative moment I felt in our relationship . 'cause you really showed the fuck up.

Daniel: You really

Laurel: did. Yeah. , It was stressful. You needed help.

Daniel: And it was in the most, not only the most trying moment, but also the most boring and labor intensive part of the whole thing. Because you were helping me death clean. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Just. Reams and reams of old lady jackets, like with playing cards on them.

Daniel: Just like, yeah.

Daniel: Shoveling costume jewelry outta the closet. Yep.

Nichole: Donating adult diapers. Yeah. Yeah. The important things.

Daniel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. So we come home, me and Laurel from death cleaning day and like my back's kind of out like I am topsy-turvy not doing so well. , Come home. Thank God we didn't let Dashel out. I look out the back window and there are not one, not two, not three, not even five dogs, not even just the two Huskies, the German Shepherd puppy and the two pit bulls, but a sixth, medium sized white longhaired dog that we had never heard of.

Nichole: Mystery dog.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: And we should clarify. I'm not home.

Nichole: I'm at an AA meeting

Daniel: So I, I shoot a text, to Nicole had a concern

Nichole: and it says, don't let Dashel in the backyard. Everything's fine.

I remember.

Nichole: I can't, like I'm in the middle of doing something. Yeah, yeah. You people are sharing their most vulnerable shit, and I can't be like, excuse me. What?

Daniel: And, and this is, the shitty little Daniel part of this story that I don't think I've ever really disclosed explicitly in this situation. The reason why I wanted to let you know not to do that is 'cause I was like, oh, you know, me and Laurel might be boning later.

Laurel: I like that this flashed through your mind at this moment.

Nichole: You'll take care of this situation real quick. And then you get down to boning. So,

Daniel: Then I go over there start knocking on the door and the door is answered by close your eyes and picture stoner gamer.

Daniel: Teen. Yeah. Yeah. pajama bottoms, , barefoot headset, long hair baked out of his gourd.

Yeah.

Laurel: I'm just remembering this kid, like trying to react to the situation and you like, tell him what's going on and he goes and grabs like one leash. Yeah. Yeah. Like I think that's all that they had. Yeah. Was one leash, correct? Yeah. For six dogs. For six dogs.

Daniel: And I completely like miss the impracticality of what he's doing because you guys have both mentioned this before, angry Daniel is a very special

Nichole: uhhuh kind of

Daniel: Daniel, correct? I don't yell typically,

Nichole: no. You get very intense and you point a lot. You point a lot with like your whole body.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: And full body pointing. Yeah, it's

Daniel: true. And maybe I whisper, yell. You kind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel: So I was getting really like philosophical and moral with him. I was like, you seem like a nice empathetic young man. You need to use what leverage you have with your family to take care of these huskies. Huskies must run,

Laurel: I love to imagine the imprint this made on this stone teenager.

Daniel: Oh, he looks terrified.

Daniel: His eyes wide like this. He was looked, turned suddenly like just leer energy.

Nichole: Yeah,

Daniel: he was giving Leer.

Nichole: So he comes to help you

Daniel: with his one leash. With the

Nichole: one leash,

Daniel: which I did not even comment on. We opened the side gate and what do you think happened? Six dogs come on and out. Full force. Muddy.

Daniel: Just neglected, wild-eyed. Their eyes on the freedom. Fucking prison break.

Oh my God.

Daniel: now I'm standing by the gate dogs startled with all the dogs that have run past me. The fence is knocked down three or four planks of it on the ground, and I just peek through into their yard. And there just beyond the fence is one tiny little white dog.

Daniel: A seventh dog looking shyly and uncertainly at me like, this is the only prison I know.

Laurel: I'm too small for chaos.

Daniel: we are running down the street after these dogs, people from their houses are shouting after us.

Laurel: Yeah. It's basically like, Like from their point of view. It's like a pack of dogs running down the street and then a few seconds later, a person coming, running after them.

Laurel: So all the neighbors are Yelling, are those your dogs? And you're like, no, join me.

Daniel: But these are Huskies.

Daniel: They're outta sight in no time. Yeah,

Laurel: they're fast.

Daniel: They do come back around the block apparently at some point.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. And, the family comes home and we get in kind of like a little shouting match by the fence when I tell them they need to take care of it.

Nichole: I come home And as you guys are telling me this story and we're, you know, getting toward the end, , I'm in shock.

Nichole: I start to see our neighbors like walking around into like our front yard. And I was like, what the fuck is happening? And I look out the window and the two pit bulls had somehow gotten out of their fenced yard. Oh, God. Came around and was trying to get into our yard through our gate.

Daniel: Yeah. They'd come out the front somehow.

Nichole: They're, they're

Laurel: basically like, please let us live with you. Please take us, we've been trying to break in to your home for months now.

Nichole: So we know that they're moving The tension starts to escalate because again, they like just put a bunch of detritus against the fence.

Nichole: They refuse to engage with us except to send us text messages at three o'clock in the morning

Daniel: The text that they sent was, I hope the bullies do get through the fence and eat your wannabe dogs. That's right.

Nichole: Yes. Yes. 'cause we had asked them, when are you leaving? So during this time, they're building like a Mad Max rig to move all their shit, like they refuse to actually get a fucking moving van.

Laurel: Yeah. And so they

Nichole: build this rig and they just put shelving in it. They put all of their shit in it, and then they wrap it with like industrial saran wrap and a tarp. Oh God. And in the middle of the night, who is helping them? Absolutely. The Aryan Brotherhood. Oh my God. The Ian Brotherhood has come through for them to help them move. It is Dudes in black shirts. Ugh. Shaved heads. I was just like, what the fuck? Oh God. I mean,

Daniel: the, the, the one that really scared me of this crew of guys, there was the one with the guitar that was shooting flames.

Daniel: So witness me,

Nichole: So

that is the story. so many dogs, so much Crazy Little

Daniel: Polly.

Daniel: Hey, little Polly. Hey.

All right. Ask the amateurs. Let's ask us.

Daniel: Ask them. Ask them anything you want to know.

Laurel: I've been asking you, asking me, and I know you want an answer.

So tell me. Tell me. Tell me. Tell me. Tell me. Tell me. Tell me. Tell me, tell me what to say.

Nichole: I'm just waiting patiently you to be done. Okay.

Nichole: so you can submit your questions anonymously@polyamateurhour.com.

Nichole: You can also email us at poly amateur hour@gmail.com. Or you could send us a DM on Instagram at Poly Amateur Hour

Daniel: heck yeah.

Nichole: All right. Are you guys ready for this question? Ready?

Yeah.

Nichole: How do you manage the NRE feeling of a new partner that blasts all your positive feelings for your anchor into a blurry static fuzz? I feel guilty that all of my affection for my primary are performative. While this NRE is blaring in my heart, should I break things off with this new partner?

Nichole: we've talked about new relationship energy. I think so, yes. Okay. So that's what NRE stands for. New relationship Energy,

Laurel: Well, I was, shocked when, like, the last line of that was like, should I break up with them? , I have heard about this, like, , people protecting like primary relationships by like ending other new relationships because they're such big NRE.

Laurel: Um, wow. Don't, don't do

that. Don't do that. Yes. Don't do that. Don't do that.

Daniel: Of the 50 options that we're going to ramble off in this episode, that is the one that I think we can all agree.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Don't do that. Don't do that. Like it's hard because it's emotions and they're really big overwhelming emotions. , But I think it is wise to like take some breaths and acknowledge like, it's not gonna be like this forever.

Nichole: Correct.

Yeah.

Nichole: So I think it's, I I completely agree. Taking a beat and under like, it sounds like this person already understands what is happening here. Yeah. Right. Some people don't even get to that point. That's true. They are just like, I'm feeling too many big emotions. Those folks are gonna leave their anchor partners and go for the new person.

Nichole: Yes. Right. Um, but do understand that NRE is a, it is a series of chemical reactions that is going on in your head Yeah. Or in your body. And that doesn't mean that they're wrong. It doesn't mean that it's bad, but biologically you cannot sustain. Yeah. That kind of mania, that kind of chemical feedback that you're getting.

Nichole: Yeah. And so that is why we call it new relationship energy because it's only lasts during that. Like first, the first phase of it. Yeah. It,

Daniel: it's just like when the acid starts to kick in like a little bit stronger than you expected and you're like, oh my God, I am broken. Am I going to be like this forever?

Daniel: It's gonna end in just a few hours. You just gotta, yeah. You just gotta ride this shit out, you know?

Nichole: Yeah. So this person has already taken that step of like recognizing that this is new relationship energy. And I think the biggest piece of advice that I have for this person, , besides don't break up with your new partner is don't make any big decisions.

Nichole: Yeah. Like moving a person into your like house immediately. Yeah. Or, um, don't buy a car with them. Yeah. Just take a beat and like understand that any kind of big decision that you make is chemically fueled.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: I think that romantic love. Which we now call NRE, so we can kind of take some of the mysticism power out of it, is kind of a hallucination.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. I think that it is at its peak, like a delusion state in a lot of ways. Like you can't track things accurately. Your senses are distorted.

Nichole: What makes it further complicated is that two people's senses are distorted. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you have two people who are living in an alternate reality together.

Nichole: Yes. Yeah's wild. And then you end up moving in with a person after a year of dating them and getting two dogs and like somehow marrying them. It's insane.

Daniel: , If I had this stupid right in front of me, I would also ask some questions. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Because sometimes people can also confuse ordinary everyday garden variety, NRE with a kind of codependent, , yearning.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Uh, emerging. Like, people talk about, codependency. They say, you know, one of the main things about it is that you lose a sense of the boundary. Between yourself and the other person.

Yeah.

Daniel: And I think that's one of the big hallucinatory like aspects of love or NRE, so I would ask, do you have a history of any kind of codependent tendencies? Yeah. And if you do, look at the intensity with which you might throw yourself into something new kind of examine that mm-hmm. On its own terms, not where it's going to affect some kind of decision where you break up with your anchor, you break up with your new person, but like, just look at it.

Daniel: Yeah. Um, and you're very welcome. Uh, uh, that's a $175 for my 50 minute hour.

Laurel: So I think there are two interesting things happening here because like if I could ask them questions, I would ask them a lot of questions about their anchor partner. Mm-hmm. Because while they're talking about. They're like blowing feelings for my anchor partner out of the water.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. And my affection towards them is now just performative. And there is something underneath that. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause I can experience a lot of exciting, good feelings for a new partner, but my actions toward my current or an existing partner don't become performative.

Laurel: Like, yes, this reminds me of what I think is a kimu quote. Ooh. Um, but he says like, we lie to ourselves twice about the people we love.

Mm.

Laurel: First we lie to ourselves in their favor, and then we lie about them to their detriment.

Huh.

Laurel: And that's like, that's sort of the process of limerence or new relationship energy and then losing it.

Laurel: Yeah. Mm-hmm. And like first you're just, you put on your rose colored glasses and you're just lying to yourself about what a perfect human being they are. Mm-hmm. And then as that starts to fade away. You start lying to yourself about how, how much this person is maybe weighing you down mm-hmm.

Laurel: Or frustrating you, et cetera, et cetera. And so I see that quote like in this question of like, you are fucking stoked about this person. And that is, that's a real feeling that you're having, but it's also a mirage.

Laurel: Yes. And also, but po it's possible that whatever is coming up for you about this anchor relationship is also a mirage.

Daniel: Yeah. I I think that canoe cycle that you described is much more prevalent in like serial monogamy.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah, totally. Because you go through this

Daniel: process of like, here, this person, you build them up to be perfect. You tear them down to be the wrong person for you, and then you move on to try and find the new right person.

Daniel: And just like all of us, stu. You are carrying around a lot of that programming that that is the process and I think it's always good to be aware like we've had to as polyamorous people that start new relationships and sustain our old relationships, we've had to tear down, some of that programming.

Yeah. Oh yeah. Within

Daniel: ourselves. Oh

yeah.

Daniel: The other question that I had that we'll go unanswered here, is I, I'm curious how old this stupid is. Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: , He goes, lemme tell you, you know, maybe they're, they're my age or older, but we were talking about this just , a minute ago, Laurel, about how age mm-hmm.

Daniel: Plays, plays into these things you were saying that you don't feel as much NRE in general as you've gotten older.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I kinda look at it as a different way in that maybe I don't feel as much NRE, but I also have learned the value of the abiding love of established relationships.

Daniel: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I no longer compare it. To the NRE. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: And I think that that really only comes with age.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah.

Nichole: And experience. But myself, like, if I experience any NRE my first reaction is to run the other way. Like, like, just like avoid the shit out of it. Like do not engage

Daniel: for a totally different reason than this Stewart is running.

Daniel: Right. Yours is like, like you don't want to get hurt or be vulnerable. Right?

Nichole: Exactly. Yeah. Yes. , And in, the last couple of years of like unpacking that what I've gotten to do in parallel is like reinvest in the current relationships that I have, right? Mm-hmm. That I had before this person entered.

Nichole: These people entered my life and. It is a very like, fruitful exercise to take inventory and like treat each relationship as its own ecosystem. Mm-hmm. Like what I have with Daniel is unlike anything else that I have with any other of my partners, right?

Daniel: Yeah. Because of the freaky, freaky sex plan

Nichole: and what I have with you or what I have with other partners, it helps shape how I want my relationships to go. So, that's the work going forward of like being in multiple relationships is being able to invest in them individually.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: I think it's The

Daniel: comparison issue again. Like I think that they are comparing what NRE feels like as what they should be feeling for their

Laurel: anchor partner. Yeah. For their anchor partner.

Daniel: And I just think that they need to check out. What it feels like without the the psychedelic aura.

Yeah.

Laurel: You

Daniel: know, like, 'cause there's a lot there,

Laurel: Yeah. The instinct of like, oh, should I break up with this person? Like this NE is gonna ruin everything. Like, it's a good thing to try and work through and try and like work through responsibly because you don't wanna just like dump 'em and then start falling for someone new and go through the same crazy experience over and over again.

Laurel: And then keep like Absolutely. You know, a trail of bodies in your wake. And I also, what you were saying Daniel, about like age, kind of like changing your perception of NREI also think polyamory has changed my perception of NRE because I used to be a serial monogamous.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel: And definitely did the thing of like, okay, I'm in a relationship, okay there's a new person.

Laurel: Like this is new imp perfect. I must be more in love with this person because I couldn't have fallen in love with them if I were still in love with that person kind of thing. And also the codependency angle. Yep. Not just codependency, but also this like scarcity mindset that we have around. Love and affection in a toxic monogamy world.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Laurel: Of like, I got to eat up as much as the person is possible, otherwise I'm gonna lose them to whoever else is ready to receive it. Yeah. Yep. As I've continued my journey in polyamory and have really let go of a lot of codependency and really let go of a lot of scarcity mindset.

Laurel: NRE is so mellowed out for me. Yeah. I don't feel strong NRE at the beginning of most relationships now.

Laurel: I just, I feel it once we are like a year in Yeah. Once we're more connected and I feel more. Safe, and I know you're sticking around and I've figured out how we fit into each other's life. Then I'm like, this is really exciting. Hmm. Yeah. We also sometimes throw around like old relationship energy as like a phrase for like more long lasting, established love.

Laurel: And so I feel like old relationship energy has kind of taken that place in my life.

Yeah.

Laurel: That like NRE fueled with all that like exciting love chemical stuff. Yeah. And the ORE is now like, like that fuels more fulfilling and exciting to me. I completely agree. Right.

Nichole: I co completely agree.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: And it's not just because you two are dating an old,

Laurel: that's specifically what we call being in love with you.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Old Jewish relationship energy.

Nichole: I kind of thought it was like my dummy sexuality of like taking a while to warm up to people. Yeah. Or, . Taking a while to feel sexually attracted to a person.

Nichole: But maybe it's just because I have experience with like deep committed relationships and I know what that feels like and that's way more preferable to constant chemical fireworks going off in my head.

Daniel: I'm kind of glad that I don't really get n re the same way that I did when I was young. Yeah. It's a lot. It was fucking exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. There's this quote from Kurt Vonnegut that stuck with me, right. He said that you should welcome the waning of your libido as you age.

Daniel: Like someone who has spent a long ride on an untamed horse and is fucking exhausted. And there's something lovely about just dismounting and feeling your feet on the ground.

Daniel: Maybe I shouldn't say that. I don't get NRE. It's more like, NRE is a loud voice in your head. . Like when you're in the midst of it, it's like, ha cha cha chacha.

It's okay. Okay, well, well

Daniel: haddy hat haddy. How, and I think when you've lived with it and it's waxing and waning over many, many years, you don't put as much stock in it.

Daniel: It doesn't seem like the great truth from on a high when it is speaking to you.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that comes with experience. Yeah.

Daniel: I mean,

Daniel: I do think that experience comes with age, but not at the same speed for everyone. Yes. Yes. Like, it's like you're getting experience as you age and then some people willfully ignore the experience.

Daniel: That's

Laurel: true. Yeah. Yeah, Did it ever have them draw that like chart for you and dare about the diminishing return on investment with drugs? I'm just like imagining that with NRE, like yes. Yeah, yeah. You just grow a tolerance to it. But I feel like stupid is kind of like, well, what do I do? Then? You work through it.

Nichole: How, how do you work through it? I think you recognize that it is chemical reactions going through your body. I think you look at your anchor relationship and take some inventory and stock there.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Daniel: I think you like discuss it with your close friends. Hopefully you have intimate close friends that you can talk about both of these relationships with. Yeah. So, process it

Nichole: try to divorce it from the monogamous mindset. Yeah. Which is really difficult to do yeah.

Daniel: Maybe do some like mindfulness practice of like. Focusing on the gratitude for the things in your existing, what you call the primary relationship, some of these things as we age and our, as our relationships age, they require more work.

Yes. Yeah. It's

Daniel: not just going to be, the jack in the box of NRE

Laurel: Hot Chacha.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. And, and don't look at that as like a performative thing like you're trying and therefore it is not as real or meaningful. That's just not, like, not how it works. As a depressed person, I know that even though I have to take the time and do gratitude practices and think about all the good things in the world doesn't make them any less real

did we answer the question?

Daniel: Yeah. You know, I actually think we're getting the hang of this.

Daniel: Shall we move along home?

Nichole: Let's move around the world. My own Polly, Idaho.

Laurel: Europe edition.

Laurel: I'm super excited. 'cause I just talk about this guest all the time, but now they're

Daniel: here.

Daniel: This is like the snuffaluffagus moment.

Laurel: Yeah. We're Snuffy

Daniel: is

Laurel: fucking

Daniel: real guy. I seen him. Yeah. But every bit as Shaggy as you imagined. So my own poly Idaho is the segment where we talk to people who are polyamorous in places that are far afield from Portland, Oregon. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: So, you know, just like typical Americans. Today we're gonna do a my own Pollo for the entire fucking continent of Europe

Daniel: with Laurel's partner. The T mentioned Sean.

Laurel: That's James Earl Jones blowing air under the fence in the Sandlot. In case you were wondering what that sounded like.

Daniel: Sean, you've been, living in Europe now for how long?

Sean: Five years almost. Yeah, five years.

Nichole: And we're saying Europe, not that like, we don't know where you live.

Sean: Yeah.

Nichole: And it's just amorphous Europe, but because you move around Europe,

Sean: right?

Sean: Yeah. I don't quite often, I don't, I don't stay in one place for very long. Yes. Mostly for like legal and criminal reasons.

Nichole: Criminal are legal reasons. Yes.

Sean: Yeah. Mostly for love. Yeah.

Nichole: Criminal

Sean: love. Criminal love. Yeah. You,

Daniel: you, you just gotta stay in the countries that don't have like an expedition agreement.

Daniel: Right, right. Yeah.

Nichole: Extradition.

Daniel: Yeah. Or, or expedition, you know, at, at any given moment, I don't know if you know this, but you know, Norway will just send you mountaineering. Yeah. Very

Sean: quickly.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: You don't even have time to get

your crampons. So you've lived a kind of

Daniel: Vagabond existence.

Daniel: Yeah,

Sean: yeah.

Yeah.

Laurel: Sean, what's your deal? Tell the, tell the people what your

Sean: deal is.

Sean: I retired from the military in Europe and I wanted to stay in Europe and I was in Germany at the time and I met my partner there, and then I met a partner in Scotland and so I moved to Portugal also. So I have a house in Portugal and I move around a lot between Scotland and Germany mostly. Then every now and then I go home. Like one week out of every four months I spend in my house with my things. And then the rest of it, I am vagabonding.

Nichole: So can you remind me how you two met? Oh yeah.

Sean: We were both patrons on the Multi Amory podcast. Shout out to multi you guys rule. Yeah. This was back in 2016, 17, something like that. Yeah, yeah.

Sean: Something like that. And when you were a , Patreon, at a certain level, you could have like a video, like a Zoom. Chat with other ones, other patrons and the hosts.

Mm-hmm.

Sean: And Laurel was in there and she had just moved to the Bay Area and she was asking people, Hey, like, I just moved to the Bay Area, does anybody know?

Sean: Like, how to make friends here? Where's cool to hang out? And I immediately slid into her Zoom dms and was like, Hey dms I can show you places around, even though I lived like three hours north of where she was. And so for about a week we texted and it was very friendly. Like no, it wasn't really any flirting or anything.

Sean: And then on Friday, right, the day before the date, she was like, Hey, can this be a date? And then I immediately got extremely flustered and I've been flustered since. Aw,

Daniel: I love this as like a laurel line, to, to initiate. Like, so can this be a date?

Sean: Yeah. I've a, I've co-opted that since I, I will have a hangout with somebody and I'll be like, is this a date or what, because Yeah.

Sean: Or

Nichole: what, yeah, what are we doing? Yeah, it's good to ask for clarity. Oh, it's very good. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: Everything that I have done prior to this statement has been completely, uh, innocent and platonic and from here on out. Yeah. Everything is a double entendre. Yes. By, by the way,

Laurel: heads up.

Daniel: That's a threat. And I promise.

Daniel: Yeah. So. We've asked you here today to play a little game.

Sean: Oh, wow. Okay. That is,

Daniel: we call my own polly, huh? Oh, okay.

Laurel: so yeah. It's not actually a game.

Daniel: So we've got some like standard questions that you cannot escape.

Daniel: . The first of which is what is unique about the polyamorous experience where you live?

Sean: I lived in California for 10 years before moving to Germany, and the last three or four of that was poly. Mm-hmm. And there was such a dense community. There was a lot of like events and meetups

Sean: uh, I moved to Germany and there was basically nobody. I'm gonna caveat this in, I was not in Berlin or anywhere near Berlin. Berlin is kind of a special bubble in Germany of progressive and or weird people. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: The rest, the rest of it is just beer gardens with the proximity of Starbucks in the United States.

Daniel: Right. I mean,

Sean: more like donor shops. Not big guard. Yeah. Which are great. it's interesting because when I was a kid there was this idea of Germany and Europe kind of as being very sexually liberated and like way more than America. But then I moved there and I felt like they, we were a bit more head than them.

Sean: Mm-hmm. In those regards. And as far as poly goes, there was basically like some unicorn hunter type couples and a very small handful of single poly people or poly people that were partnered, but not, but, you know, looking solo

Daniel: has that changed since you've been there?

Sean: not really. Have

Daniel: you helped them along?

Sean: Yeah, I've been trying, trying, my damnest, I only have so much energy, uh, but I would say like as far as Europe and the British Isles go Scotland. The Glasgow, Edinburgh area probably has the higher density of poly people.

How do you find the poly community in each of these spaces? I.

Sean: In Germany, there's, like, again, outside of Berlin, there's like tantra events and like breath work events and stuff like that, that the Yeah. And like ecstatic dance. And those are the places that you would go to find poly people basically.

Sean: In Portugal, there's like poly communes around, but there are kind of like up in the mountains or like remote and kind of maybe a little weird. Like

Laurel: culty, like a little

Sean: predatory. Not quite culty, but like a little like male focused predatory, you know the type? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sean: Like a, A one penis commune. Mm. Mm-hmm.

Sean: I would say that like, sex parties and sex clubs might be a little more frequent in places like Germany and even Scotland like it feels a little bit less focused on Polly and more on Six Six

Daniel: Sweet Six in Scotland. Do the, the kilts make it easier

Sean: with consent? Yeah, I guess I would say that a weird thing, like I will wear dresses and skirts in Scotland and people will look at me weird. Like, I'll have a skirt on. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, kilts aren't super common there, but like, you know, every, every now and then you see kilt and it's perfectly fine.

Sean: Big manly man, whatever. But you walk down the street with a skirt on and a beard and people are just like, what? Like what are you, like, are you a lady or what? And it's like, I've had people like yell at me like scoff and like,

oh wow. Wow. Like mutter

Sean: over their breath and like laugh at me, like openly laugh at me.

Sean: And it's just like if it's a weird dichotomy of like kilt or cool and manly, but like don't put flowers on it. Right.

Laurel: How dare you Adorn it horrible with floral patterns.

Sean: Yeah. I want laurel patterns.

Nichole: Aw, just a skirt with her face on it. Yeah. Right in the

Sean: crotch. Yeah. Right on the crotch

Daniel: and then the back of her head on the butt. Yeah.

Nichole: It's not gonna be in our merch store. Yeah. This is

Sean: our new Oh yeah. The Laurel Kilt

Daniel: Industrial. Laurel Kilt. Industrial Laurel.

Sean: It's weatherproof. It's guys. It's Splashproof.

Nichole: Oh my God.

Laurel: . Like you have a really unique life and I think a lot of people are like, find it very like, glitzy. Like, oh, You hop around Europe.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Like you live, you functionally live between like three different countries. Yeah. You have, , partners, like all over the world. Mm-hmm.

They're all, and they're all hot. They're

Sean: all really

Laurel: hot and they're all super hot. They're all hot and cool and smart and strong. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: All yeah. Hot, strong, smart babes. . Um, and you know, you're living off military pension. Mm-hmm. Um,

Daniel: that's the glitziest part. That's the glitziest part. Yeah. Everyone's like this economy. Yeah, yeah.

Laurel: Well, everyone's like, how the fuck do you do this? What did you do? And then you're like, I spent 20 years in the military.

Laurel: And they're like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, they're like, you see it on their face. They're like, how do I get it? How do I get this? Yeah. It's, they're like, how do

Sean: I get it? And then I say that and they're like, there's this computation that happens Uhhuh, because that is the furthest thing they thought. Yes. They look at me and they're like, wait, what?

Sean: How, why?

Daniel: What would, would you like to trade a, would you like to trade a subsistence pension for PTSD? Yeah. You get, you get free PTSD with your pension or vice versa.

Sean: The PN pension stands for PTSD. Yeah. Yeah. Like, do you want a helicopter to land on you almost and like kill you? Like no thanks. Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: So there, there's trade-offs. But yeah, I feel like that that particular experience of like having partners in very different places like that's a very unique experience.

Laurel: Yeah. so what is awesome about it? But also like, is there like particular like struggles or drawbacks in that scenario?

Sean: Yeah. Like some of the awesome things, it's like kind of constant input. You don't fall into routines. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And you have to be kind of intentional about your time when you are visiting somebody. And so I think that kind of keeps relationships a little bit on their toes in good ways and bad ways.

Sean: Yeah. One of the hardships is like, the scheduling is like really brutal sometimes because people work. Um, my stubbert in Scotland , , like she travels a lot for work and is not home. I'll often like follow her to where she's working.

Sean: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm., Yeah. It can be kind of hard that when all of your relationships are long distance. Yeah. Yeah. And kind of. I dunno what the word is, but like, where they like stop and start almost.

Sean: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it can be hard because you need to figure out very specific communication strategies more than you would if you could just see like pop over. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, it's Thursday night, you wanna grab a pizza or whatever. It's like, I haven't seen you in a month and a half and you've been busy and we haven't texted much and like, I miss you.

Right.

Sean: Can you please add more emojis to your texts? Yeah. To like, to like, it is an actual conversation. Can you please add more emojis to your text so that I feel like some affection, which like, it is not

Daniel: fucking Americans just need your

Sean: emojis, you know?

Daniel: pizza slice and an alien. I'm all good.

Sean: Yeah. So, you know, you figure out like specific ways to kind of keep that connection, uh, when you're away because you're away a lot.

Sean: I have to like get in a plane Yeah. To like visit any partner. I have no, like, like I'm not dating anybody in Portugal. So if I was home for more than a week, I would've to get on a plane to visit a partner. Yeah. Which like, kind of sucks. Yeah. I mean, not just for me, but like for the earth also.

Sean: Yeah. Yeah. I would like to caveat all the people out there seething. Like I do not like that either.

Nichole: So I imagine that you get a lot of practice, having to pivot like that communication style. Yeah. Between all of them. Um, and. For it. It sounds almost exhausting probably.

Nichole: I imagine that it's a little exhausting, but I also am just like, I admire your, um, ability to do that.

Sean: Oh, thanks. It is, it, it can be exhausting. I think I am for some reason kind of preternaturally, like, is that the right word?

Daniel: Are you a preternatural? Oh, a preternatural. My god. I'm like very, I cancel, cancel, cancel,

Sean: cancel that boy.

Sean: Uh, I'm like somehow very equipped for that. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I have like a very large battery for doing that. Yeah. And not much else like doing, you can't make me work. You did it. You on real job. Yeah.

You put in your time there.

Daniel: Speaking of intentionality, we like to sometimes, put a little cap on these episodes. Mm-hmm. With, a little mini segment. Little mini segment. It's all about mobilizing the stewards. Whoa.

Sean: A jaunty cap.

Daniel: Yeah. The, the Jaunty army.

Daniel: So we like to do a little segment that we call.

Daniel: Pyramid scheme.

Nichole: I'm the only one who doesn't do a musical stick before the musical stick stick.

Laurel: Do we always cut them out? I feel like we always cut them out.

Daniel: I said this thing to Laurel the other day, um, that was, it was an online thing. It was on the Instagram, um, it was on the Instagram it was about the, the like evolution of love language being just constant gibberish.

Daniel: Stem talk.

Sean: Yeah. Uhhuh.

Daniel: That's

Laurel: where we communicate 98% of the time is just like, I think we have literally had conversations in noises. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. I believe it. Yeah.

Sean: Wait, what are your feelings on inheriting love languages from previous relationships?

Sean: Oh, or like the Yeah. Special words and all that stuff. Not love languages, but like,

Daniel: yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, I feel like with the, with the podcast and stuff, we definitely have a lot of collective gibberish Yeah. That is building up between us.

Laurel: Yeah. Cross-contamination. Cross-contamination of stuff.

Daniel: It's also known as the joke mind virus.

Sean: Nice. I'm gonna slap your butt later for that one.

Daniel: Thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna be here all week. Cast out onto the table.

Daniel: we'd like to do a little segment where we call on our stews to uh, do a little something, do a little something something.

Daniel: Are you active on Reddit, Sean?

Sean: Um, sometimes not, not super active, but, would you like to be, I could be. Would you like to

Daniel: be

Sean: sure.

Daniel: So Reddit is the arena that all the, like AI fueled search engines now are looking to for Oh, right. Yeah. Their recommendations, like if you Google Poly podcast

mm-hmm.

Daniel: They're mainly combing through Reddit and getting the recommendations from there.

Sean: Yeah.

Daniel: So . If you are on Reddit, if you're seldom on Reddit, if you know what Reddit is, if you'd like to get a Reddit account, go online, Google Poly Amateur Hour, Reddit, then you can find the threads in which people are already talking about us and where there's recommendations for poly amateur hour upvote that shit upvote, upvote, and upvote , the question itself so that people can find it.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. And then if you wanna like, do like your next level shit, , do your own question and then have your buddy do the answer. Yeah. Just get up all in the nooks and cracks and crannies of Reddit and sing the fucking gospel of Stu Tom. And

Laurel: then log off

Sean: and then come

Laurel: and Yeah. And then log off. And then stop reading the mean things people are saying to each other.

Laurel: Yeah. You're

Sean: mobilizing the Jaunty army. I love it.

Nichole: Yeah. We're literally just asking you to like click a button. Yeah. At the, at the very, very least.

Sean: Wait, so do you not have your own subreddit?

Laurel: No, we don't. Should we make our own subreddit?

Sean: I will. I can do that for you. Ooh.

Daniel: Oh yeah. This is like an in-person poly pyramid scheme where, where you're like, your mission should you choose to accept it.

Sean: Yes.

Daniel: Alright. I do accept it, but only

Sean: in exchange for sexual

Daniel: favor.

Daniel: Laurel. He was looking at me.