Laurel: In 1948, beavers were airdroped into Idaho wilderness.

Nichole: That's what I'm learning from the internet. Uh, did it say why, or is it the end of the fact?

Daniel: Were they aware of the double entendre that would live on far beyond this attempt?

Laurel: they were causing problems in another town by clogging waterways.

Daniel: Oh. I thought it was maybe like drinking and gambling.

Laurel: They had like started their own little like Beaver Mafia. Yeah. And they're like, we're gonna deport you. . Wait, they air dropped them in Idaho? Yeah, they put them in little wooden boxes.

Daniel: Parachutes.

Laurel: Yeah. This picture looks like there was a parachute attached to this.

Nichole: Wait, wait. Where was the town?

Laurel: The town of McCall, which I'm assuming is in Idaho. Yeah.

Daniel: And they requested the beaver airdrop. This wasn't something that was done to the residents without their consent?

Nichole: No, no, no. They dropped the beavers into the wilderness. They took them from the town to the wild into the wilderness. Yeah. Oh, they didn't take them from the wilderness.

Nichole: They town.



Nichole: My first question was, why the fuck did they have to airdrop them? Like why can't you just like cart them somewhere? My guess is that the wilderness was so thick that they couldn't Yes, but.

Nichole: Still, like you don't know where those animals are actually dropping. You don't know if they make it to the forest floor. Yeah. It seems unnecessarily cruel and

Laurel: expensive. Yeah. You know how sometimes you're at, you're and there's a problem and you've been bored for a while, and so you just pick the most like cockamamie scheme to carry out a solution.

Laurel: And I feel like this guy whose name was Elmo and worked for the Department of Fish and Wildlife, I he was like, we could parachute these motherfuckers. What, what, what

Daniel: year was this?

Laurel: 1948.

Daniel: Oh, okay. I was hoping it was from acid era.

Daniel: It was like, you guys, you guys, I got the solution. Oh God. We have to think in three dimensions. We can make them fly. Fly.

Laurel: Do you remember that movie? Hundreds of Beavers?

Laurel: It's pretty cute. It's fun. Was this, was this pornography?

Daniel: I'm really enjoying, enjoying, today's run of being able to make a lot of dirty jokes about beavers because I feel like growing up in Portland, uh, where our state animal is the beaver and where all of our sports teams are called beavers, and there's a town called Beaverton,

Daniel: I feel like I've been inured to the joys of beaver jokes that everybody else gets to take for granted, you know, in the rest of the world.

Nichole: Do you guys remember when there was that power outage in North Portland but it was caused by.

Nichole: A beaver chewing down a power line.

Nichole: And I had to, I'd had to share that with my coworkers because I was like, this is what's going on.

Laurel: Yep. In yield, Portland, Oregon. Yep. then they promptly shipped that beaver off to the Idaho wilderness.

Daniel: This is exactly the kind of thing that like, takes up all the airwaves of local news in Oregon, right?

Daniel: Oh yeah.

Nichole: Oh, a thousand. They got two days worth of material outta that.

Daniel: You, you guys remember the whale, right? Oh

Nichole: yeah.

Laurel: The one that also took out the power lines.

Laurel: They were trying to parachute that one

Daniel: Laurel, do you not know about the whale? I don't know about the whale. Oh,

Daniel: There was a dead whale that washed up on the coast of the, the Oregon coast,

News: It had been so long since a whale had washed up in Lane County. Nobody could remember how to get rid of one.

Daniel: again, it was probably the same guy who thought up the beaver paratroop, right?

Daniel: Yeah.

Song: Is like

Daniel: the way to get rid of this whale is to fucking blow it up. And so they put a bunch of dynamite in the whale and it was like nightmare. Horror film scenario. Yeah.

News: For the blast, blasted blubber beyond all believable bounds.

News: The humor of the entire situation suddenly gave way to a run for survival as huge chunks of whale blubber fell everywhere. Pieces of meat passed high over our heads while others were falling at our feet. The dunes were rapidly evacuated as spectators escaped both the falling debris and the overwhelming smell.

Laurel: I hope they did like a great necropsy on that whale before they blew it up.

Daniel: Are you saying this, that you wanted a necropsy because you believe. It was murder.

Laurel: Well, someone wanted to get rid of the fucking evidence. Obviously they blew that thing to all. Holy hell. Oh my God. God and I, I want these files released.

Laurel: These are the files you're concern with. Let's be real. Yeah, let's be real. No one is ever gonna give us the Epstein files. Yeah, no. Yeah,

Nichole: no.

Laurel: So I'm just lowering my, my bar bar that goes from Epstein to beach Dead whale from the eighties.



Daniel: Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour.

Laurel: I'm Nicole.

Daniel: I'm Laurel. I'm Daniel

Laurel: Danny. Boy,

Daniel: I You know, once in a while we just feel like we haven't been wasting enough water. And we ask Chet, you know, Chet last name, to je

Daniel: to, uh, create poly amateur hour scripts for us we're just sitting on these scripts stubs.

Daniel: If you, if you want to hear the Chet versions of us read aloud round robin. So we switch all the roles and like, I'm Laurel and Laurel's, Daniel and Nicole. Wait, Nicole's

Nichole: Nicole.

Nichole: The references at one point in one of these scripts, Laurel calls Daniel, Danny, boy, because Laurel is the sassy one.

Laurel: You know, when like, there's something that's like an internet trend and then you,, start doing it ironically and then it stops being ironic and just becomes like part of your vocabulary or

Laurel: this is that, but the origin is ai and then I start doing it to make fun of the ai, ironically, and then it just becomes canon.

Laurel: Oh my God. Wow.

Nichole: You should include this in your vows. Wow. Calling him Danny Boy. Oh, and then you say Danny Boy, and then you go, I'd like to sing a song.

Nichole: Boy

Daniel: Wow. Wow. Wow. Nicole has been pretty firmly against us spontaneously singing on the podcast lately. And this, this is the exception that she will make. '

Daniel: cause I'm giving you, okay. I gave you pointers for your. Proposal and now I'm giving you pointers for your, for your ceremony.

Daniel: I think this counts as sabotage.

Laurel: I do like the idea of Nicole, like art directing the wedding, and it's just like a grand play.. You even have like the black turtleneck on right now.

Daniel: I'm kind of upset that I don't actually have a, pet name. Like, each of you have sweet pet names , that I have, introduced into Cannon.

Laurel: I feel like I tried to think of something and it didn't stick. So did I. Yeah,

Daniel: I think

Nichole: mine was

Daniel: dumb. For

Nichole: you, you just

Daniel: call him dumb. It was just dumb.

Nichole: No, no, no, no, no, no.

Daniel: , For, for those of you, , who aren't in relationships with us, um,

Nichole: the

Daniel: few of you. Yeah.

Nichole: I don't know. There are more and more every day for me, so, oh no.

Daniel: , Nicole is baby snakes.

Daniel: And Laurel is tiny fists

Laurel: and Daniel is dumb

Daniel: Or Danny boy, apparently, or Danny

Laurel: boy. Um,

Daniel: I'm gonna gonna do one right now.

Laurel: The first one that's coming to my mind is,

Laurel: I dunno why. Otter. Slurps,

Otter. Slurps.

Laurel: S Otter

Nichole: Slurps. Otter Slurps. Okay. That's

Daniel: You guys need to do better on the pet names.

Nichole: Okay. We'll work on it.

Daniel: Nicole's was, for me was peachy papa.

Nichole: Aw. I don't think it worked.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: It was like Otter Slurps. It was just the first thing that came to mind that popped in your head. the name of that? Like cream puff place in the Bay Area?

Laurel: Um, Cream, Papa.

Nichole: Something like that. Charlie Cream pies. You sang the theme for it. Laurel. Isn this cream pie. Charlie, you miss him. I

Laurel: he's not real.

Daniel: Laurel. You get him every other day or so. Oh God. So, uh, Nicole? Yeah. I hear you have some wrath. Ooh,

Nichole: yeah.

Nichole: I do have a bone to pick

Nichole: so I broke up with a partner yesterday. I don't even really know where to start, except that like, I was not expecting to break up with this person at like nine 30 in the morning. It was a cumulative series of events that just kind of led me to like, okay, so this person and I have known each other for quite a while, and then we started like dating, I guess, um, two years ago.

Nichole: The entire time I've always felt like insecure about it.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: And what I am grateful for this, in this relationship is that it really forced me to take a step back and do some self work. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. And in that self work it became very clear to me that I have fearful avoidant tendencies.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. And I can Cool girl. It like the best of them. I am so cool.

Laurel: I'm so cool. Well look at your fucking turtleneck in those glasses. Yeah. I mean, I already hired you to art director wedding, so Yes.

Nichole: I just, I am very, very good at, , keeping somebody at arm's length mm-hmm. And at the same time I can also be. Very vulnerable with you. I do appreciate, getting to know people and getting to know them intimately and inviting them in, , not only to like my head and my heart, but also, family that we have built together. , And so with this person, like I was doing that simultaneously they would be included in a lot of things and then, I would like basically push them away. . Like, I never asked for what I wanted. Yeah. until way too late in the relationship.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: I'm noticing. That you are talking a lot about things that you could have done differently.

Nichole: Like, you guys can reflect back to me I need the reflection because I do feel a little fucking nuts.

Daniel: I'm gonna be like, listen, this motherfucking dude, , for the purposes of this,, podcast, I will call him, um, No, no, that's No, absolutely not. That is way too identifying. You can't do that. Oh my God. Absolutely not.

Nichole: Okay.

Laurel: I wanna call him,

Laurel: commitment Phobic Craig.

Laurel: So, uh,

Daniel: we're going with that.

We're going with

Daniel: that. Cool, cool, cool. So, CPC, you know, Nicole was saying, oh, I'm very avoidant, but she really met her match in somebody , far more avoidant than her in this relationship.

Nichole: Let me back, let me back up. , So over the course of , these two years, , I saw him escalate with other women. , So other women. Got to meet his friends, they got to have overnights, they got to take trips together, he cooked for them. , the entire time he's saying like, oh, I wanna make you this meal, or I wanna like, you know, go do this, whatever.

Nichole: I'm never seeing like the effort to do those kinds of relationship milestones with me. Right. There was one time where like,

Nichole: him like, like wanting to like fly out of state, like on a random weekend like go see this person. Prompted me to go like, oh, wow. He would never fly outta state for me. prompted a conversation of me be basically being like, Hey, I like you.

Nichole: , I want to keep seeing you in this, like more committed way.

Daniel: And he Did make a declaration if. I remember correctly what you said to me is that he did make a kind of statement of intention to do more of that with you. Yes. To bring you into his life more. he was really on board in those conversations.

Daniel: You would come home to me and you would be like, , oh, I'm so relieved we had this talk and he really, really does care about me and wants to have a deeper connection.

Nichole: Yes. we keep seeing each other. And then, he meets this person. She is long distance. She comes to visit, I don't hear from him for like a week. And then he picks me up to go to a movie or whatever, and he decides to tell me like, we are gonna be primary partners.

Nichole: And I was like, great. Yeah. Cool. You told me that wasn't something you were looking for. Like he identified as solo poly.

Yeah.

Nichole: I was surprised by the declaration of, of primacy.

Nichole: Yeah. And then ask pretty explicitly like, so this person is long distance, like, when are you moving? Yeah. Or when is she moving? And he was like, oh, we have no plans to do that. Okay.

Daniel: And this is something that he had kind of done before. Right?

Daniel: It's kind of a pattern with him where he's really willing to escalate when the person is at least a thousand miles away.

Nichole: Like the only other person I had seen him do this with. Was somebody who had just moved.

Daniel: Yes.

Nichole: But then he also, I remember toward the beginning of our relationship, he had another partner who came from out of state who came to visit him.

Nichole: he was like, oh, my partner doesn't like when I text other people when she's here, so I'm just not gonna text you for a week. Yeah. so , that person was also long distance. he is escalating with these other people. And I tell him, I'm like, yes. And like, I would also like escalation with you. Hmm. , And this starts a chain of events where it's like he would be super communicative, super sweet, super nice, super acting, the role of boyfriend mm-hmm.

Nichole: Without actually saying that escalation was on the table. Right. , It hoodwinked me. Yeah. And I realized that I never got him to like, actually say it out loud when he talked to me about relationships ending either past or present, he never broke up with anybody. Hmm. They always broke up with him.

Hmm.

Nichole: I don't know how great of a pattern that is

Daniel: to like, right, right.

Daniel: Have Long distance, only . For commitment. , Only dating people who are not actually in other relationships and, , just waiting for the other person to take the initiative and never actually disengaging from a relationship, those three spokes together.

Daniel: Paint an interesting portrait.

Laurel: I'm realizing that, like, there's a lot of elements of my, most recent ex and behaviors of some of my recent partners mm-hmm. Tied up into one and they are all very much related to, , a desperation and need to be loved and wanted.

Laurel: Yes. Without being willing to reciprocate in a very vulnerable way.

Nichole: Yes. Whenever we would get back together and we would have a conversation, it felt like we were on the same page.

Nichole: Yeah. Like he was, he was, because he's

Laurel: bread crumbing you because like he was giving you just enough Yeah. For you to continue to hold out hope and like continue to engage Yeah. In the relationship without being really honest either with you or his like capacity to engage in a committed relationship.

Nichole: Right. So, Saturday morning I'm like, fuck it, I'm done. Yeah. So I go over to have a conversation and two things emerge. One, he says, when I said escalation wasn't on the table, I meant, and I said, excuse me. Yeah. Excuse me. If you had said that we would not be having this conversation right now.

Nichole: I would have broken up with you then. Yeah. Yeah. If you like, it made me feel fucking, like, it made me feel like an idiot. 'cause I was like, did I just like not hear that? Did I not want to hear that?

Daniel: Now I think that the term is way fucking overused, . But I Think that you got gas leaked.

Nichole: You guys get to decide that. I don't get to decide that

Daniel: you got gas leaked.

Laurel: Okay.

Daniel: Laurel,

Laurel: You know, it's like you got punked. It's like you got gas leaked and then like, like a stinky old egg cracks open.

Laurel: Oh god.

Nichole: And

Laurel: there's sulfur smell everywhere.

Nichole: So the second thing that came up basically was he never liked me in that way. He, he never at any point wanted to consider, regardless of the other relationships he was in, never wanted to consider escalation with me

Laurel: at all. I also, I kind of call bullshit on this a little bit like, it sounds like such a soft boy self-protection thing to be like, well, I never liked you anyway.

Laurel: Like, I mean, , that's part of the whole, commitment, phobic, avoidant attachment bit like, I can't get hurt if I never give anyone the opportunity to hurt me. This is the lack of accountability part. Like, if I pretend like I never gave you the impression that we could escalate, and if I pretend like I never , gave you the impression that I had deeper feelings for you mm-hmm.

Laurel: Then I don't have to take responsibility for where we are now

Daniel: and I don't have to interpret this as a rejection Yes. In my, in my catalog of experiences, you know? Yes.

Nichole: Yeah. I mean, I did, I went into the conversation not wanting to be mean. part of this is like a hidden, crazy, sexy poly.

Nichole: Daniel coached me before I broke up with this person. Oh yeah. Like he was texting me and then he came home and was just like holding me by the shoulders, going like, just speak about your own experience you can do this, you can treat it with kindness.

Nichole: Like, you know, you have the grace, and you have the power. And he said that in that voice. And I was like, not the time, babe. Like, come on. Um, but I did say some mean things.

Daniel: not as mean as me or Laurel would've liked you to get

Nichole: I know. Because I was really trying to keep my side of the street clean.

Daniel: It is honestly like the door is closing on the relationship and he is got about, he's got about a foot, of space, in the door.

Daniel: Yeah. And he is just like the, I never liked you anyway, is like, Hmm. That's just enough room for me to punch right through the fucking gap. Yeah. Not a good look. Um, Craig,

Nichole: So, I called my best friend and she basically said like, I'm really proud of you.

Nichole: I think that was absolutely the right decision, you know, that I'm not a fan. and then I called another friend and the first thing he says to me is like, oh, congratulations. Oh my, I am so, I am so proud of you. Oh my God, that's so great.

Clip: You are an intelligent, fabulous, glamorous, humorous, lovely creature. And, you have a sweet ass and a magnificent rack.

Nichole: talking through things was like really helpful. I started a new Netflix show. I sat on the couch. I asked Daniel to bring me Red Vines and like, and then you guys came home, kind of held me and we talked and,

Nichole: I think that there are some moments of struggle that are ahead. it's gonna take me a while to grieve, , the fantasy that I had in my head.

Mm-hmm.

Nichole: I did tell him like, if I had been honest with you, a year ago we would've broken up. Right.

Daniel: But you were honest with him. I feel like the bigger dishonesty was his.

Nichole: I feel like you're biased.

Daniel: I am biased for the truth.

Nichole: Alright, Cronkite, I was gonna say, is that like your YouTube channel?

Daniel: Truth bias. don't,

Nichole: I don't think I intentionally or no mistakenly misheard him. I think the higher likelihood is he's incredibly insecure he doesn't want what he can have. Sure. Yeah. 'cause that's too much commitment.

Nichole: Well, Daniel, you pointed out to me yesterday, like, yeah, the women that he's escalated with are all long distance

Daniel: And what made him feel safe, where there was a boundary that made it so you couldn't have a deepening relationship was that you were married.

Nichole: Wait, does that actually support the theory?

Laurel: Yeah, it does. Like he, he feels comfortable in long distance relationships because there are exterior forces that won't allow it to escalate to a certain point he thought. That being married was going to be the external factor that limited the ability for your relationship with him to escalate.

Nichole: But little did he know, but little did he know Yeah. That I'm in a super fucking healthy Polly relationship. Yeah. With my husband and that we've been open the entire fucking time. Yeah. And we've worked really hard on this

Daniel: And it supports the theory even more.

Daniel: AKA, the truth,

Daniel: one of the first times that you were like, I want more commitment

Daniel: the thing that he said was, oh, I thought that that had been off the table because you were married and so you had a conversation about things being on or off the table. And he put them on the table. he's like a, gas leaking magician.

Daniel: He's like, it was never on the table all along long.

Nichole: So yeah, that happened.

Nichole: I did learn a lot,

Nichole: and here's the thing Like, I have the autonomy to leave whatever relationship I'm in. Yeah. What I find most attractive about myself is that I, completely inhabit my body and being like, I don't necessarily need anybody to complete me.

Nichole: I like being by myself. I like spending time with others. If you get to be close to me. , you get all of me

Laurel: I just poetry snapped for that.

Daniel: Oh, nice. Yeah. I'm just really excited to see the, uh, the changing of the guard here.

Daniel: The regime change of the most attractive thing about you being your autonomy and self resiliency. Dethroning the tits.

Nichole: Thank you. Thank you, thank you. I appreciate that.

Daniel: So is our first moving along a moving along home. I've always been curious, you know, I think that we really typically do it for the like, like bringing an on home for the last segment.

Laurel: Yeah. No, It is a move it along, but it's sort of like, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. What are we doing? What

Daniel: are we doing?

Laurel: What are we doing?

Daniel: Sometimes we like to keep a secret for a while.

Nichole: Secret is this a perfume commercial?

Daniel: Annie. Annie. Annie. Annie undone. Annie, Annie.



Nichole: Some time ago. We've recorded with Annie undone. It was fucking brilliant and it was fucking two hours long.

Laurel: Yeah. We got so much good, good, juicy content out of it that we've been sitting on some little morsels.

Daniel: Oh, I think it's a more than a morsel.

Daniel: It's like a whole other meal. Don't intimidate the people. You're gonna, you're gonna have to take it all.

Nichole: Oh, she'll love that. She'll love that.

Daniel: Open your mouth, Stuss.

Nichole: Here comes

Daniel: Annie undone. So recorded a, an incredible unicorn hunter Hunters, which we aired in the original Annie undone episode and also unequally.

Daniel: Incredible. Ask the amateurs. . From a stu who seemed to want some advice on a shorter timeline like

Laurel: three months ago. Sorry Stu. Sorry

Nichole: Stu.

Daniel: But here it comes. Are ask the amateurs with Annie undone

Nichole: roll tape.

Laurel: Yeah. Let's answer this question. Yeah.

Daniel: Hey there, chuckle fucks. I want to thank you for your recent discussion, song and Instagram video about HSV. That was really normalizing and heartwarming. I appreciated everyone's candor and vulnerability. I am dealing with a related issue right now. I was recently diagnosed with HPV. It's not one of the cancer causing strains, but the stigma and shame are heavy.

Daniel: It's a tough one because like HSV, there can be visible symptoms. That's really demoralizing. I. I did my due diligence and contacted my sexual partners past and present. I also stopped dating because I haven't got the strength right now to have that conversation with new partners.

Daniel: Meanwhile, my nesting partner of five years has multiple partners and is having more and more non-sex kink scenes with other people. I'm having a lot of jealousy and envy and insecurity. My partner is very supportive and we talk openly about these things. I am wondering if you have strategies for dealing with life isn't fair type envy and or STI related insecurities leading to jealousy.

Daniel: I am a cis man and my nesting partner is a super hot NBA FB person. That's not normally relevant, but I think sexual insecurity can show up differently between sexes and genders. At least the social programming is different. Anyway, love you all. Xo, xo, your friend stubs.

Laurel: I love the Gossip Girl sign off.

Laurel: Thank you.

Daniel: I'll pretend I understand your prime millennial references.

Annie: It's important to remember that like having STI is morally neutral.

Yes.

Annie: Yes. You know, I've had HPVA couple of times, . And sometimes it goes away and sometimes they're like, oh, it didn't go away. And like you're like, oh, it's back. Like, what's it doing? I don't know why this is, I think it's like the millennial in me.

Annie: I'm for reference almost 40 years old and I just got my second round of , the HPV vaccine. I had to fight to get it for like three years. , It only protects against 16 strains. There are over a hundred. Mm-hmm. There's literally nothing you can do to prevent HPV and I actually don't even know that in most cases it should be classified as an STI, so much as like a rusting place of human existence.

Annie: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: All roads lead to HPV.

Annie: I think that people aren't as aware that HPV can can have a genital, , warts. Manifestation. Mm-hmm. There is a, there is a strain like that, which I, I think this person might be referencing.

Annie: There are a lot of doctors who will tell you, you don't have to disclose this.

Annie: Right. Like, and I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that I think when you do. Most people are not gonna be like, oh, well we can't get down. I think that you're gonna find that a lot of people have attitudes that are kind of blase about HPV and the worst way I've seen it used in polyamory, because most men, unless it's the general wards manifestation, cannot be tested for it.

Mm-hmm.

Annie: I've seen it used restrictively to limit men's partners with other women. Mm-hmm. You can't sleep with her Because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I've seen it more weaponized, than anything else. I just think you have to be prepared for people to be like, I don't know about that.

Annie: So, no. Right. Yeah. Like, yeah. And then just pass the salt. Like, oh, by the way I have HPV this. Just say it before you are at all emotionally invested in anyone. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Also, like, weird side note about this, that, this, question like , your nesting partner is doing, like non-sexual play, BDSM play with other people.

Annie: Like, boy, get down on that shit.

Laurel: Like, I'm a

Annie: huge fan of non-sexual BDSM and like use that as your springboard. Mm-hmm. Don't be jealous. Be active.

Yeah.

Annie: Like, you know, I mean, I'm saying that flippantly, but like, I, I truly mean it

Daniel: come, come to poly amateur hour, we will spank you

Nichole: non sexually.

Nichole: I, I think that the stupid will get to disclosure eventually. Like it sounds like right now he's not, he just doesn't wanna deal with that. He just doesn't wanna deal with it. Yeah. And this might be the first STI that this person has experienced. Mm-hmm. So there is a little bit of a grieving process, right.

Nichole: I think we've all experienced it when we've been diagnosed, where you've feel the initial hit of shame. You feel the initial hit of like, well, my sex life is over. And then you work through those feelings either by talking about them with your partner, with a therapist, so on and so forth. So the disclosures phase will come eventually.

Nichole: And I want to tell the steward that like, you'll get there, you will get there right now. Like it is valid if you do not want to explore any new connections. Mm-hmm. If you don't even wanna explore like, current connections. I would say for like. Jealousy and, insecurities that you might be feeling. I agree, Annie, like if there is a non-sex, like non-physical touch component to your kingdom that you enjoy, there is an opportunity to lean in there.

Nichole: I also think that like, combating, exploring your feelings of jealousy and I would say map to when you're feeling jealous in any other context, particularly with relationships, right? So like, it is acknowledging that you're feeling that and it's maybe diving a little bit deeper into like why you might be feeling that you're feeling left out, right?

Nichole: You're feeling like you're missing out. This is something that you can't have. And then there is the trust that it will change. Mm-hmm. Like this is not forever, this phase that you're in right now. That's how I've navigated jealousy. Your partner sounds fantastic.

Nichole: If they're really supportive, trust in that dynamic, trust that like you've got a partner and maybe you have multiple partners you just don't know yet that are more supportive. But you haven't been able to like either disclose to them or, or you haven't had that conversation. But you do get to give the gift to your partner for them to be supportive of you.

Hmm.

Annie: Yeah. And I also just put together a jealousy workshop. Cool. Like, I just, because it comes up so much. Mm-hmm. And just like, one thing I recommend is like, get yourself a jealousy buddy. Mm-hmm. Like, make a friend. Like, I have people that I can go to and be like, I'm so fucking mad.

Annie: Like, you know, so you're not like unloading that on your partner so your partner can actually offer support. Right. Yeah. Like, I don't even think these have to be like my next door neighbor, whatever, like discord, Reddit, like talk to polyamorous people, meet someone online that you can, can converse with.

Annie: I think that having someone to just kind of throw that big emotion at is super important. Yeah. , And I like have a lot of like tools that are specific to like things that I've done, systems that I've developed. But I think that, that, that piece of it is really essential is also like, let your partner support you, but have support outside of your partners.

Annie: Yes. I love this. Yes.

Nichole: Absolutely.

Daniel: I love the idea of a jealousy partner. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm gonna go out and find one. See you guys. Also love the idea of like, you know, venting on the internet. , The internet is a great big shit hole meant for you to shit in. So

Laurel: have at it,

Daniel: do it. , I wanted to talk about this a little bit from the point of view , , of a man, because he pointed out that he's a cis man.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. And I realized that there is a little bit of a difference in the ways that we have been acclimated to HPV mm-hmm. For us, penis, possessors, penis wields, the so cute.

Daniel: Like you were all saying, that a lot of people don't know that there's these other types of HPV that are visible. I feel like , for cis men, it's the other way around. Like, we had to learn that there were types that were invisible.

Daniel: And for us, HPV was always about this visible thing that shows up on your dick that it has a little bit more of that, stigma that,, h Hs v carries for all of us. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. And that it's something that's like, there's your, your fucking blight on your dick.

Laurel: The thing with STIs when you're like a responsible haver of an STI, there is so much like unfairness built into that.

Laurel: when you do talk about it and you do openly share your status, and are safe and proactive about the safety of the people around you, unfairly you get treated like a pariah at times?

Daniel: Yeah. And the kind of education that we had about it was fucking bonkers. So I had my sex education late eighties, early nineties. You guys could do the math. But Daniel's old, I'm old. Primarily, our sex education was all about slideshows of warts that looked like. The barnacled holes of ships or, or just like fractal patterns. Like a, like a crystal forest. So many warts, so beautiful. So, okay. Education, this is what happens if you ever have sex, is you get fucking crystal forest genitals.

Daniel: Not only is it frustrating that it can have visible symptoms, but. You cannot have visible symptoms and have all these other strains, and there's nothing that you can ever do to really find out about it. For, a man.

Daniel: And for somebody like me who has OCD who wants certainty about these kinds of things, like that's maddening,

Laurel: You never really know what's inside of you.

Daniel: there could be a two headed cow fetus.

Daniel: I think that what you have to come to terms with, and I think this is true no matter what kind of junk you got, that HPV, it is endemic. Like yeah, everybody gets it at some point during their life unless you never have sex.

Daniel: Like if anybody is really going to just reject you over this, they're a fucking asshole. And they do not know enough about sexual health To be a partner of yours. Right. I would encourage you to just know that 90% of the people out there, the reaction that you're going to get is like, oh yeah, of course.

Annie: It's twofold, right?

Annie: It's like I feel bad about myself because this thing has kind of crashed in on me a little, so it's like an internal issue, and then it's an external issue of jealousy, right? Like there's these two. Things kind of work , in tandem and like, you know, you have to continue to foster your relationship with your nesting partner.

Annie: Mm-hmm. Make sure that's really strong. Right. And you have to not get in your own head. I mean, it's, it's kind of like a tall emotional order on both ends. Yeah. Whack the mold that's like right in front of you. Right. This is part of the complexity of navigating, like polyamory in general , we're usually hitting more than one emotional point at any one time.

Annie: And so do things that are confidence building. Do things that make you feel good about yourself and your relationship to your body. There's not gonna be a magic bullet on this. Yeah. Some of it's just gonna be time and some of it's gonna be skill building and some of it's gonna be tools based.

Annie: Mm-hmm. And I think that's what makes, , the emotional work of these kinds of spaces feel really overwhelming, right? Mm-hmm. It's like, God, it'd be nice if we could just be like, ah, get back out there buddy. It's gonna be great. But it's not, some days it's just gonna be fucking hard.

Nichole: Yeah.

Annie: And that's okay. . One thing I always say about jealousy is like, just acknowledge that you're doing a lot of fucking emotional work right now. Mm-hmm. Right? And I think it's a super important point, what you said, Nicole, like, , just knowing that this will end. everything ends. And I think in terms of , your partner being good, and supportive, like have them write you like something concrete a note mm-hmm.

Annie: That you can keep , when they're off on a play date and you're alone. Right. Like I think that physical things are super important. Like when we talk about doing emotional work, it's that, okay, this feels like shit, but I know that I can do it and I know that I can survive. So the next time you have to do it, you can look back and be like, Hey, that was awful. But I got through it.

Annie: Look at me like, and each time it's a little bit better. Yeah. I

Daniel: love all of that.

Daniel: It's not like I'm trying to say, Hey, just get back out there, get on the horse. But I do worry , that this steward might be thinking worse things in reaction, like might be filling in the blank of what people's possible reaction to his status is. That is far, far worse than the reality.

Daniel: And that's why, even, it's not in a sexual context, I encourage disclosure in other contexts among your friends. The longer that you go into protection mode, the longer you're going to delay actually getting the feedback from the outside world that you.

Daniel: Okay. Yeah. And I think that the world likely wants to tell you that you're okay and I just wanna encourage him to like open some channels, even if it's not in a sexual context, if it's not in the context of dating. Mm-hmm. Like talk to people. Yeah.

Annie: Don't shut down and be like, oh, this is awful.

Annie: Like I'm never gonna date again. You know? Look, I don't know what your track record in dating was before, but as a cis man, it ain't a hundred, you know, so you know, it's probably gonna be about the same. Yeah. Whatever your experiences were before your average might be a little lower, but just keep in mind, it's always a numbers game, right?

Annie: Mm-hmm. Like it always is. So like when someone rejects you just check it on that box. Like great, like a yes is right around the corner. 'cause like, I already got that. No, get that outta the way. I will

Nichole: say having the experience of being rejected based on an STI in person. Like, now that I know what that feeling is, I have experienced it. I've experienced the. Not the worst thing, but like, one of my fears becoming real.

Daniel: Yeah. And now you carry a can of mace.

Nichole: Well, no, no. I just like, I've had the first one. It's done. Yeah. Yeah. I will never be in that position again, because it'll never happen for the first time.

Annie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Annie: And he, and he just has to know realistically, people are gonna be uneducated.

Annie: Right. For sure. Or someone's gonna say for, no, I have to ask my husband. And, and he said no, because he doesn't know. And I tried like, whatever. Like, just know that's gonna happen. Yep. So just let it happen. Yes. Right. Just get it over with. Pull the bandaid off because once you're done, you'll realize again, just like in jealousy.

Annie: Oh, I survived. Mm-hmm. Yep. They didn't come shoot me, dad.

Laurel: I would just like to add on top, in terms of, you know, Annie was talking about doing things that make you feel sexy and confident, that we need to bring back the self-affirmation. bukkake

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah.

Annie: . I don't know what this is, but I'm so

Annie: intrigued.

Daniel: is this in, is this inviting our Stuberts in for a, spit toasting?

Laurel: Yeah. I wish we knew more about this, Stu so we could give them a little spit toast and they could just bathe in that affirmation bukkake for a little while. All right. Well, I'm sure

Daniel: that they're listening,

Laurel: right? I'm certain they're listening right now.

Daniel: Fuck. They stu better be, be right behind you. So Stuber, please. , I want you to play this episode for your partner.

Laurel: Oh yeah.

Daniel: And partner of Stubbert Stubbert once removed. I don't know if you're already a stubbert, but you are now. Ha.

Daniel: Gotcha, gotcha. We would love it if you, without showing it to your partner, wrote in a bunch of really, really nice things about them. Yeah. And we will on the podcast. Give him a spit.

Daniel: Toasting. Yeah. AKA affirmation buka.

Laurel: Yeah. Do it. Oh, I love this. I wanna read nice things about people.

Nichole: Me too. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. Please.

Laurel: Feels good and warm, right? It does, yeah. Just like buki.



Daniel: Oh Annie, that was fantastic and I'm really glad that we finally gave it its life

Daniel: in the ecosystem. We let it loose into the wild.

Song (2): We, we parachuted it into the wilderness, the Idaho wilderness.

Daniel: Oh. I think that we parachuted this into the town. This is a, a reverse

Laurel: parachute mission. Oh. This is an exploding whale situation. Oh,

Nichole: that's what, it's my bad.

Nichole: Yeah, yeah.

Daniel: Was our Annie undone segment more of an exploding whale or a parachuting beaver? I think she'd like to think that we are parachuting her beaver into urban centers all over the world. Oh

Laurel: my God. Oh my God. I don't know. Stuss, this one's your call. Let us know what you think.

Laurel: Fuck.

Laurel: What, what we got going on next?

Daniel: Oh, I think it's time to, , move along home with a little, is this Polly?

Daniel: we've got two songs coming through the pipeline today for, is this poly? The first of which was a recommendation from one of our stewards. On our website,

Daniel: So if you have an idea for Is this Poly, please

Laurel: send

Daniel: it to us@polyamateurhour.com

Nichole: or email us at Poly Amateur hour@gmail.com.

Daniel: Oh yeah, that's even better than we can keep track of you. Then we put the chip in and we know where you're at. So our recommendation, which was a little bit of a revelation, and it's gonna be fun to have a conversation, this is from the nineties.

Daniel: They are, I guess what's called a gothic metal

Nichole: group. Mm, yeah.

Daniel: my girlfriend's girlfriend from Type O Negative, This is from their 1996 album, October Rust.



Laurel: Okay. I mean, we can all agree that our favorite part was the meat triangle.

Daniel: Yes, yes.

Nichole: I mean, I do love metal and I do love goths, and I do love latex fur and feathers. Dunno that I love this song.

Daniel: Oh man, I really liked it. I like the sweaty Velcro.

Nichole: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: I like the interjection of just a Wow.

Nichole: Yeah. That was good. It's an end a lyric with, wow.

Daniel: I like the 62 Corvette sharing one cigarette.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And, I feel like it's about something that's really common and natural in poly relationships as far as how they start, is that you sometimes start dating somebody who is the partner of your partner.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And then at the very end, , he just sings, she's my girl. Mm-hmm. he omits the two at the end because she's no longer. Just in relation to him through his girlfriend. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Okay.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: you're watching a relationship between our singer and his metaphor blossom. His metaphor, his metamore and metaphor.

Laurel: You're watching, you're, you're watching the singer's relationship with his metamore blossom through shared cigarettes in a Corvette with latex leathers and feathers.

Nichole: Metaphorically.

Laurel: Metaphorically. I mean, I liked the wow part too as , as sometimes, like sometimes I have this moment where I am like with multiple partners at once or with a partner in a metamor at once, and I'm just like, wow, my life is so cool.

Laurel: Is that moment now? Yeah, that's all. It's the now. Wow. It's the now. Wow. I don't know if that was just supposed to be an illusion to the. Titillating tangle of the meat triangle. Oh

Nichole: my God.

Daniel: Which is one of the least efficient musical instruments I have to say.

Song: Oh,

Song: you

Daniel: gotta hit it so hard just to get a thwack

Laurel: that is yucky. Yucky. , But I found that a relatable piece of lyricism.

Daniel: Wow. They're also like walking hand in hand down King's Highway.

Daniel: It's kind of romantic it is not just about a threesome. Right. It is definitely about a relationship.

Laurel: Yes,

Daniel: yes.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: So maybe now we ask,

Nichole: is this poly,

Nichole: This is Polly.

Daniel: Yeah, I think so. Yes.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah. I think it's pretty Polly. Pretty Polly Poll.

Laurel: It's poly and metal. Finally, finally, the poly metal crossover we've all been waiting for. It's a

Daniel: cyborg.

Laurel: Is that another, um, is that another like sub genre of where you find poly people metal? Yeah. I hope so. We'll

Nichole: work on that.

Nichole: 'cause I, I think it'd be fun to date a metal, a little metalhead. I mean, now that, now that the punk guy is outta my life, I need like

Laurel: some kind of rocker. Nicole. Yeah. Nicole needs a different alt rocker.

Daniel: Yeah. There's only space for one alt rocker

Laurel: now taking applications.

Daniel: So if you are prepared to rock Nicole's booty, next up.

Daniel: Following with our nineties theme we have, you are the two by. The roaches.

Laurel: that wasn't the sound I was expecting, really? Mm-hmm. Not at all. What were you expecting? I don't like something Grungier.

Daniel: Yeah, they're like nineties. They're called the roaches.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I personally feel a little bit cheated that there's no distorted guitar, but I also feel rewarded that there's a clarinet.

Nichole: They're known for their incredibly close harmonies. Like, and they have weird harmonies. So if you go back into their catalog, like there's some weird ass harmony shit that they're doing.

Daniel: I feel like that's another way to describe polyamory. A bunch of weird harmonies. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: That's fair. Um, I loved, her describing the two different, , dudes in her life, , that he's a big, strong boy who can bust out of his chains.

Nichole: what you're missing in muscle, you make up for in brains. Like

Daniel: she's got types. That was the one part that I didn't like so much. 'cause it's like, why? It's like this one trope in polyamory where you, like, you're supposed to assemble all the, pieces, like the ideas that, oh, this person is missing something that this person can provide.

Daniel: And I've just never experienced it that way. So the, the like she's got like one strong boyfriend and one smart boyfriend.

Nichole: Well, no, she's just saying that what he's missing in muscle, what he doesn't have in muscle Yeah. Unto himself. He has in brains. And then the other one's a meathead. But I love the fact that all of my partners are like, so, so different.

Daniel: Yes. But I don't wanna be, , just reduced to my throbbing muscles. Okay. Notice, notice that I just cast myself in the meathead role. I really like this for some of the same reasons that I liked the last song in that. It is like this different genre of poly song that's not about trying to convince anybody that your relationship is good or right.

Daniel: It's just reveling in the joy of it.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Daniel: And both songs mention the relationship from the outside about like the joy of being perceived as such a sight, you know? Mm-hmm. Oh, so wild. When people see us too, so it's both joy in the relationship of having this abundance of love and then joy by just being a freak on the streets.

Nichole: I do love the abundance of love, the last, , verse with all this love and I feel wild and free. Maybe I should press my luck and try for three, like, that's, that's really fucking good.

Laurel: I also liked it and noticed these things as well.



Daniel: well, is it poly?

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah, totally. They walk arm in. Arm in arm.

Daniel: I loved that. feel like the clarinet adds so much joy to it. Like when I'm with you guys, I hear a, a jazzy clarinet.

Nichole: Aww, yeah. Thanks. Thanks babe.

Daniel: Just a little bit of like KLEs, shimmies,

Song: shimmies.

Nichole: You didn't answer.

Daniel: Oh yeah. It's totally Polly. So Polly, it's joyful. I really like that we stumbled upon both of these songs in the same week.

Nichole: Me too. Yeah. I mean, if you look on the internet, Poly is full of problems, there's just so many people complaining about their relationships that sometimes it's just really fucking great to just like sit back and go like, yeah, this is actually really fucking great.

Laurel: Yeah. It

Laurel: Do you guys think we should go to line dancing class together?

Daniel: Were you inspired by the arm? In Arm? In arm?

Laurel: Yeah. Well, in like the sort of country-ish nature of that song,

Nichole: but also we can't necessarily do square dancing 'cause we'd have to invite somebody else Yeah.

Nichole: To come with us. Ew. Gross.

Daniel: Oh my God. Is line dancing the most poly form of dance that you can have? Oh, because

Nichole: they are all dancing by themselves. But in a group.

Laurel: In a line. It's the most solo poly dance there is. But what are those like, old timey, like Victorian dances and everybody's like trading partners through

Nichole: them.

Laurel: Like co cotillions.

Nichole: I think that cotillion is an event.

Laurel: I don't know. I'm just saying they do it in period pieces all the time. They do when they wanna like, facilitate Yeah.

Laurel: multiple characters talking to each other and quick passing.

Nichole: Do, or you have the two love interests and they're like making eyes at each other as they go down the line and then they actually get to dance together. Yeah. Just for a brief moment where they entwine their gloved hands. Yes.

Daniel: I would love to see a polyamorous Jane Austen novel.

Laurel: that would be fun if someone could write that.

Laurel: Thanks. Nonsense sense

Nichole: and sensibility,

Daniel: which one of us is which

Laurel: I think it's pretty clear.

Nichole: Alright, that's,