Are we recording? Yeah. A SMR.

Daniel: Is that a very specific type of A SMR? Is that Jewish A SMR when you just heave a really deep sigh. Yeah. Yeah. It's a sigh that extends to the walls of the room.

Laurel: Do I sigh a lot? I notice when people sigh in my life because I immediately assume they're sighing about me. Oh, same. Like, I'm not sure if I do that and I'm just like woefully unaware.

Nichole: I'm trying to think., I don't know that you sigh. Yeah. A lot.

Daniel: probably 'cause I'm only half.

Nichole: Why does that sound offensive? Yes. That's so half breed Jew.

Daniel: You know how in America's top model they talk about sizing i think that there's like sigh with your eyes that you can do that. I think you

Nichole: are Oh,

Daniel: that, that's, that's your thing. That's what I do.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Si

Daniel: How was, uh. The most Portland event of all Portland events that you attended, the World Naked

Laurel: Bike ride,

Daniel: You know, what's more Portland than the world naked bike ride?

Daniel: The fact that it now has a splinter group.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah. That there has been a schism and that there are two rides and they are named practically the same thing.

Yeah.

Laurel: Why was there a schism? I don't know. I have no idea about the internal drama, but Okay. Something,

Daniel: And now. You don't know which one to choose, like, 'cause you're gonna get canceled by the other world, naked by Greg.

Laurel: , We decided just to ride there naked too. Yeah. And so it's funny when you're not in a big group riding naked.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: So many people's like, reaction is just to laugh at you. Oh. And like I know it's because they're like kind of uncomfortable and it's also like a little bit.

Laurel: Delight. Like, it's not like a ha ha. There was one person who was like, what's going on today? And we're like, it's, it's the naked bike ride. he just goes, oh, that's interesting.

Nichole: You had such a practical answer for him, and there was nothing following that up from him. Yeah.

Daniel: I, I would've loved if you just had a completely non-sequitur response to it.

Nichole: It's like we lost all our clothes when we tried to go through the car wash. Like,

Laurel: so our party did get separated , lost one person in our party and they had,

Laurel: the clothing of another person in the party and all of her stuff.

Nichole: Not a great idea. No.

Daniel: Was this the beginning of a Shakespearean comedy?

Laurel: That's what it sounds like. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. we were like convinced that he must be behind us. Mm-hmm. So we waited a long time and we let a lot of the ride pass and then we're like, we're losing the ride.

Laurel: This person maybe like got up in front of us. So we had to like ride to catch up with the ride. Oh my God. And we played this like leapfrog for a while. 'cause every once in a while I'd stop and try and call. Missing person to no avail. Yeah. Yeah, of course.

Daniel: I mean, behind you is the best guess because I think that's the best seat in the house.

Laurel: Aw. , It's fun just to like ride behind all of your partners and look at their butts and you're like, Hmm, look at that butt. Yeah, look at that butt. Mm-hmm. we all painted Pentagrams on our back so we could find each other easily in the crowd. Nice. But that still didn't work, um,

Daniel: because there were like 20 other people with Pentagrams because it's Portland.

Laurel: , There was a llama. Oh yeah. There was a llama at, at first. At first, I thought I was a person dressed as a llama, like two people dressed as a llama.

Nichole: So going the opposite of naked bike ride? Yes, Uhhuh. Just

Laurel: uhhuh. But I got to hug a llama in my birthday suit, so that was cute. Was the llama naked? It was partially shaved.

Nichole: Was it?

Laurel: Oh, was

Nichole: Was it one of the therapy llamas that they have a PDX? I think so.

Laurel: was no official capacity.

Laurel: Like I think this guy was just like, this'll be fun. I'll bring my llama. Like,

Daniel: do you think that we have people who listen to this podcast just for like the Portlandia Live vibe

Nichole: maybe?



Daniel: To Poly Amateur Hour.

I'm Laurel. I'm Nicole,

Daniel: I'm Daniel.

Laurel: And today on Poly Amateur Hour

Daniel: we are all naked.

Nichole: , First we're going to ask one of our favorite questions.

Daniel: . Oh, what question would that be? There are so many questions in the poly amateur hour cannon. Are we going to ask, is this poly. No. No. Oh, are we going to ask, would we unicorn for them? No. No. Are we, are we going to ask if Laurel's roommate moved out yet?

Nichole: Oh, that's mean

The answer is yes.

Daniel: What question is it

Nichole: We're gonna ask Monogamy. Are you okay?

Nichole: monogamy, are you Okay? Is where we take a look at examples of toxic monogamy out in the world, and most often it's YouTube bringing something to me.

Daniel: Wait, did you say YouTube or YouTube?

Nichole: YouTube. You individuals or white tea? Oh, not the white people again.,

Daniel: we realized that there is a, uh, a secret cachet of prime toxic monogamy. Mm-hmm. That was just under our nose the whole time and we've never talked about it.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: That is the world of reality television dating.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Daniel: I went down a little bit of a rabbit hole last night to find the cream of the cream, as we like to say of just some, uh, some reality TV that it's gonna make you, uh, ask yourself

Nichole: monogamy. Are you okay?

Nichole: I sound more Californian the more I say it.

Daniel: I, I'm sorry. You've been typecast. So first up we have the big D. What does

Nichole: that mean?

Daniel: Well, funny you should ask. I've got a trailer.

Nichole: Oh, all right. Okay.

Laurel: Okay, so D is divorce. Oh God. Okay. But also the post-divorce dick. dating. Reality TV is so weird because they're basically like, we're gonna put you in non, non-monogamous situations with the goal of finding a monogamous partner.

Laurel: While you're like the most ill-equipped person. To do any of this.

Laurel: They assume it's entertainment because they know it's a bad idea because they know how ill-equipped everyone is to deal with the complexity of the situation. , This is all under the assumption that what we're doing is wrong and bad and everyone's gonna feel wrong and bad about it and that's what's gonna make it tv

Nichole: I. I'm just, I'm shocked that this is a thing. Did these people sign up for this dating show knowing that their exes were going to be involved?

Daniel: I think so. Remember that other show where , all the young men were gonna be dating MILFs, but all the MILFs were the mothers mother.

Daniel: I have a, that they knew.

Oh,

Daniel: they knew.

Oh my God. Even

Daniel: though they faked, they faked a reveal. But they knew, and

Nichole: that just seems like

Daniel: such a fucking nightmare. Like why would you Well, that's the point, right? Is like, you know what regular dating reality TV shows are missing. People's lives actually falling apart during the production.

Nichole: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Oof that.

Daniel: Hmm. Because what are the two most dramatic parts of a relationship? The start

Nichole: and the end.

Daniel: Yeah. So they're like, let's just do 'em at the same time's.

Laurel: Mash 'em together. Yeah. Wow.

Nichole: there ever be a second season of that? I really don't think so.

Daniel: As a divorced woman, Laurel, what is your, immediate Oh yeah.

Daniel: Gut take on this.

Laurel: I couldn't even imagine my ex and I in that situation like, I might do it for shits and giggles, but there's no way in hell he ever would. Mm-hmm. All my past, like monogamous relationships, like I already had like polyamorous tendencies, so I was always like a wingman to some degree.

Laurel: Yep. Mm-hmm. And so I never had problems with my partners, like flirting with other people. that part wouldn't be a big deal for me. Like winging for them and like trying to help them find love.

Nichole: yeah. I feel you and your ex would not be the couple that they're looking for. 'cause I feel like you would be like scoping all of the women. Yeah.

Nichole: And like determining which one

Daniel: you

Nichole: should go

Daniel: on

Nichole: a date

Daniel: with. Laurel would be unionizing the wives. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. And like, I am curious if any, any of one half of any couple does that,

Laurel: actually is supportive. Supportive, supportive. Yeah. Polyamory gets a lot of flack for people who are like not practicing it in a healthy way or whatever.

Laurel: Uhhuh like, oh, I dated a poly guy once and it was horrible and I had a horrible experience, but like my argument is always like, no, you didn't date a poly guy. Mm-hmm. You didn't date someone who was non-monogamous. You just dated someone who was failing at monogamy. Yep.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And like maybe they like co-opted some language to try and make it seem like they weren't, but yeah, they certainly were.

Laurel: And that's like the whole thing with these shows is like putting 'em in situations where they have to intentionally fail at monogamy.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: What if there was a show that put people in that exact situation where everybody comes to the location with the mission and the understanding that they're going to fuck, but they get punished for any type of sexual activity.

Laurel: What? Too hot to handle what? Yeah. To show what Yes.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: Oh my God. Oh my God. This is this. So they're competing for money.

Laurel: Yeah. I think that there's like a pool of money. Mm-hmm. Uhhuh and like it starts at like, a hundred thousand dollars that they would all get to split. Okay. And the more they do sexual stuff, the smaller that pool of money gets.

Nichole: Oh

Laurel: my God. So other people are mad at

Nichole: Yeah. Other people for having sex for

Uhhuh.

Nichole: Oh my

Daniel: God. And the fact that they have like a Siri or Alexa type robot. Oh, that is, it's God, it's very black mirror. Right. Yeah.

Nichole: this is the blending of kink and capitalism that I did not ask for.

Nichole: Yeah. Like, yep. This really makes me uncomfortable.

Daniel: You want a pretentious literature story? Yes. Laurel's, conspicuously silent. I studied English literature in college.

Daniel: It shows,

Daniel: and there was this formative English novel, right. Called Pamela Uhhuh. And the plot of Pamela is that there's a housemaid in the house of a Lord who is just being basically pursued and he is trying to basically rape her the entire time. Mm-hmm. Who is the Lord? The Lord. Oh, okay. And the Lord.

Daniel: Yeah, the Lord. Like it's basically those scenes from nine to five with the secretaries running around desks. Yeah. He like does like a fake. marriage ceremony to convince her that they're married so that he can try and de flower her or whatever, uhhuh. And the whole premise of the novel is that like she is rewarded for being able to withstand his advances by being married to him at the end.

Daniel: That's her reward. What? the subtitle of the book is, virtue Rewarded So Pamela or Virtue Rewarded.

Ugh. And I

Daniel: think of this book all the fucking time when I think of the type of scintillating content that is ostensibly about chastity. Yeah. But it's actually like. Soft porn. It's like abstinence porn.

Yeah. Yes, yes. Like

Daniel: Twilight is like that, right? Yeah, yeah. Yes. There were a whole bunch of books that like followed that were in this kind of theme. It was like a trope. , And I think it's still going on. Like I think abstinence porn is like a huge part of specifically American,

Laurel: yeah.

Daniel: Like television literature.

Laurel: I feel like all of these, like shows are actually like produced by Christian, networks and producers. Like there is some Oh, for sure. Kind of,

Nichole: yeah. Especially, I mean A, B, C. Yeah. So like The Bachelor and The Bachelorette, one of the weddings that they like had on the Bachelor.

Nichole: One half of the couple was Jewish and they did not let him wear a yamaka or have a Jewish wedding ceremony. Wow. Yeah, yeah.

Daniel: Or get circumcised.

Laurel: They, they get

Daniel: you from birth. They gave him like a four kin merkin,

Laurel: a four kin

merkin

Daniel: firkin.

Nichole: is, but is there, is there like an impetus to like couple up?

Daniel: I don't think so with

Nichole: one

Laurel: person.

Daniel: I think the idea is you get money for chastity.

Laurel: Yeah. And I think that they just keep putting them in situations to foster sexual intimacy or whatever.

Laurel: Okay. so that the temptation is calling. All the time.

Daniel: Hello. Hello. This is Temptation.

Nichole: Oh, boy. Okay, so this falls under monogamy because of the abstinence. Oh, yeah. Porn. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel: You know where else? There's a lot of, uh,, forced abstinence that causes a lot of drama. High school.

Daniel: Well close. Close marriage. Getting warmer. Getting warmer. The answer is prison. Oh. Oh, oh no.

oh my God.

Daniel: We really just do this segment for the really, really choice sound bites of Nicole's Oh, gods.

Nichole: I just, oh, okay.

Laurel: Yeah, go on. these people in prison met people on the outside.

Daniel: Yeah. It's somehow

Laurel: the

Daniel: classic pen pal situation where people are specifically trying to date people in prison. Oh my God.

Nichole: this is like next level. Was marriage even on the table before this like, reality show showed up, right?

Nichole: Like, yeah. Like are they getting married just because they know that the reality show is paying for it. It feels so manipulative on the part of the producers with these people. And , life after prison, depending on like how long you were in there, you absolutely need reentry.

Nichole: Rehabilitation. Like you need, yeah. Reentry therapy. There are programs that you have to go through. Like, I can't fucking imagine.

Daniel: I, I'm just dying over here trying to make an entry joke. Oh God.

Nichole: I just like, I like, and I know, I know that there is a joke in there that somebody tries to tell about, like, I left one prison to end up in another marriage.

Nichole: Like, I know that, that is, somebody says that over the course of this series. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my god.

Laurel: I think this is like a delusion that carries. Across all relationship modalities. and that's that you can be in a relationship without knowing somebody. Yes. And that delusion, transcends monogamy,

Daniel: I think this is the ultimate in , codependent connection, right. Because, you know, I've had partners in my past who always wanted to know exactly where I was and always wanted me to text back right away. Mm-hmm. and to be really enthusiastic, just pouring all of my energy into them. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Yeah.

Constantly.

Daniel: And I feel like, if you are looking for, you know, that kind of security. Maximum security. Oh God. I think you look for a convict, right? Yeah. They are there for you and all of their energy, you are their keyhole to the outside world. Oh yeah. You know

Nichole: exactly where they are.

Nichole: They can't meet anybody else. yeah.

Laurel: Oh God. Oh my God. And at the same time, you get to feel like you're saving them. Yes. Oh, for sure. Yes. This,

Daniel: this makes me so sad. Ugh. You know what makes me really happy?

Nichole: What, what? My sadness.

Daniel: I love that. That's your guess. And that makes me even happier. I'm in a, I'm in a happy feedback loop.

Daniel: No, that. Non-monogamous people like our dating structures do not resemble this in any way, any of these shows. In fact, I think when poly people try and do this kind of stuff, can be like really fun. It could even be a live comedy game show.

Nichole: Oh, oh, I thought you meant non monogamous.

Nichole: People definitely don't ever end up in prison or

Laurel: like

Nichole: try to

Laurel: contact people in prison. I thought you were saying that when we date people in prison. It actually is really funny.

Daniel: I'm sorry. It was a really slow burn segue. What I, what I was actually gonna say is, putting poly people in prison is cruel and unusual punishment.

Daniel: but hey. There is a poly dating game show that doesn't involve prison divorce, fines for sex, Uhhuh. It is poly, Polly Oxenfree. Nice

Nichole: fun

Daniel: outta New York City. So way cooler than us. Yeah. Yeah. We know this. Is Portland trying to out New York? New York, or is New York trying to out Portland?

Daniel: Portland? Or is, does New York know that we exist? I, I don't think,

Laurel: yeah, I don't think New York

Nichole: thinks about Portland at all. Yeah. I don't think they care at all,

Daniel: so today we do have a very special guest. We have Rose Ozer from Polly. Polly Oxenfree.

Laurel: we're gonna do a little segment called Practical Poly, where we talk to polyamorous folks. folks.

Laurel: who offer Some kind of Yeah. Service or support for the polyamorous community. We're really excited to talk to Rose 'cause uh,, I think their service and support is akin to our service and support, which is just entertainment.

Daniel: So, without further ado, because it's our double header segment with Row from Poly Polly Oxenfree

Nichole: Roll tape

Daniel: from the future.

Daniel: 1, 2, 3? Did I do mine early? It was fine.

Nichole: I don't know what that's for. But I don't need to know.

Rose: It was a group activity to build trust and community. Exactly, exactly.

Daniel: Every episode of Poly Amateur Hour is a trust fall.

Rose: Okay. I'm falling in Brooklyn.

Daniel: You help people fall in Brooklyn in love. Yeah.

Aww.

Daniel: I used to live in Brooklyn. Where are you? I'm in Bush Whack. Oh, nice. should be like poly mecca right Bushwick is like the east, east, east Williamsburg now.

Rose: Yes. Yes, exactly That. It's like, it's very easy to book people for my show. I'm like, I get so many applications from,, from Bushwick. It's like If someone's like, I want someone with a sailor moon kink. I'm like, great. What age range

Daniel: You got? Like a cast of five sailor moons. You could do, just do an all sailor moon cosplay edition of poly PolyOne free.

Nichole: I am very, very curious about people's like poly journey and so I would love if you're willing to share, to hear more about you, how you came to polyamory, how you practice polyamory now.

Nichole: Um, yeah, I just wanna hear about you.

Rose: is fun. 'cause I do so much theater where, you know, I say things out loud and then they, go into the void and I don't have to worry about people knowing anything. And now this is like, ooh, recorded. I share all kinds of things on stage that I would never, you know, record.

Rose: Well, um, you can make it all

Daniel: up if you want. We're not gonna lie. I lie

Rose: to you. only tell the truth. . So I've been with one of my partners for 10 years. We just celebrated our 10 year anniversary. Oh. And it was about two years into our relationship that I was like, oh no, I'm gay.

Rose: And um, he's a, he is a boy, a cis boy, and he was like, what are we, what are we gonna do? So we listened to a lot of, you know, multi Emory podcast. Shout out to that podcast. Um, and we, you know, made our little spreadsheets and did our homework and then like, dove into things and changed everything. Like nothing.

Rose: Nothing went how we thought it would. , I have had now, you know, multiple partners, he has had multiple partners. We no longer think of having like. Hierarchy and how we operate. We don't really have agreements beyond like that. We're gonna love each other forever. , He's had some wonderful partners.

Rose: His partner was just over in our home last weekend for multiple days. I have a partner with a life with a, with a life. With a wife.

Rose: was what I was gonna say. He got both

Daniel: and I like both of them.

Rose: I am so comfortable being Polly now that. When I have breakups, I feel like it's about, , the good stuff. Like, uh, not getting along with the other person or just regular stuff. It's not like we're fighting over polyamory. , I feel like in my early days it was more about like, the structures and what are the agreements and how do we navigate various poly dynamics together?

Rose: But I don't know. Now I'm just,, trying to be open to all kinds of dynamics.

Yeah.

Daniel: Isn't it interesting communicating to monogamous people sometimes about how polyamory is usually not the problem. We got lots of problems. Yeah. Yeah. But it's typically not polyamory that we're arguing about.

Daniel: Right. Um, yeah. I am curious about the, origin story of Poly Poly Oxid Free, you know, how did you get from, you being a mild-mannered polyamorous woman in Brooklyn to being the

Daniel: I assumed gender there

Rose: you also assumed mild mannered, but,

Daniel: uh, that was the more offensive part. Really. Husband

Rose: was accurate.

Daniel: I was trying to hit all the superhero tropes, origin story, mild mannered bit by a radioactive game show hosts.

Daniel: I don't know. How'd it happen?

Rose: So, when I was living in San Francisco, I hosted and produced a dating show called Tinder Disrupt, and that was like, started that almost 10 years ago. And that was a PowerPoint dating show where we were very much, um, fun of tech culture and people would pitch their friends to the crowd via PowerPoint.

Rose: Oh my God,

Nichole: that's so great.

Rose: And it has now like, spun off. People do this in like other cities and it's, it's a thing. PowerPoint dating is now like kind of a genre for better or worse. and it was about, yeah, a year ago that I was, I was still doing that show in Brooklyn and San Francisco, but I was just, you know, deep in my poly verse and queer verse that I was like, I really want to create a show, resonates more with my experience.

Rose: And also I just like really wanted. To create polyamory content that is like fun and focused on like, what's possible with polyamory. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I feel like a lot of poly content for good reason is about like, how to do polyamory and is educational. And I was in this place where I'm like, I'm doing the thing and now I wanna know like, what's possible.

Rose: Like, let's, let's dream bigger. and so part of my goal with this show has been to like, get people on stage who are really like jazzed about their relationships or looking for new partners, but like, yeah, really like dreaming big about the future of polyamory. And I think we're in such like an exciting moment too, where like it's becoming more mainstream.

Rose: And so like we need to know what happily ever after looks like. Aw, yeah, because we dunno. And like, I'm in multiple partnerships where I'm like, I don't have like a lot of role models where like. What this is gonna look like in five years, or 15 years. So like that's what I'm craving and that's also like what I'm trying to put on stage.

Rose: And I was also really interested in creating a game show that's, unlike The Bachelor in every other dating game show out there, there's possibility for multiple winners because it's polyamory. So everybody's wins, everybody can win. But different flavors of winning, it's like the main person writes, can write an invitation to each person in the poly pool.

Rose: So sometimes invitations are like, do you wanna fuck? And other times it's like, let's talk more about tarot sometime next week over coffee. So, yeah, it depends on what energy they're getting.

Daniel: You located a poly tr that I had never thought of, but it is a thing. The tarot. Yeah. Oh my god.

Rose: I can tell you what all the, the top poly stuff is.

Rose: 'cause it feels like I now have this spreadsheet of like every poly person in the United States and it's like tarot

Nichole: dv.

Rose: There's a thread in what I've noticed for people who apply to the show, which I think is, it's about world building, like d and d.

Rose: Improv tarot. It's all like, you have to have enough imagination to dream up what you want relationships to look like. And so I think people who are more like imaginative in other aspects of their life fall into polyamory because they're like, oh yeah, I can deconstruct this world and imagine something else for myself.

Nichole: I love that theory. Yeah. And I support it. Although I am not a tabletop role playing person, and I, because, and I'm also not creative. doing this, this is like creating narrative. I mean, yeah. Um, like Laurel, , is a, crafter and a pole dancer, and her house is like this beautiful,

Nichole: like collage of just like who she is as a person. Daniel, writes songs, sing songs, plays piano, , writes novels, writes stories, and I make a killer

Daniel: spreadsheet.

Nichole: Yeah, yeah. Like I,

Daniel: and we need that.

We need that.

Daniel: You make it possible for me to put my pants on in the morning. And everybody else in your life.

Daniel: everybody in your life would be pants less including the people that you work with without you.

Laurel: Can you tell us a little bit more about like the structure and format of Poly PolyOne Free

Rose: okay. So Poly Pollinate is a live theatrical polyamory dating show, and there are, two main characters, which is the, the catch who's kind of the star of the show, and then one of their current partners. And the show opens with one of their current partners pitching the catch to the audience via PowerPoint.

Rose: So they're like, here's my partner, Claire. Uh, this is what Claire's looking for. This is why I love Claire. This is why you should fuck my wife, Claire, whatever. It's, and then there's a Polly pool, which is four people. I've carefully curated who are potentially compatible with the catch. And then we do a series of challenges, just various shenanigans mm-hmm.

Rose: To test compatibility based on what the catch has told me that they're interested in. So like I had one catch who told me that like, they're really into eating ketchup, but one of their current partners like really hates it. And so they were like, I really just wanna date someone who's like, who eat a bunch of ketchup with me.

Rose: And I was like, great. So we did like a, like a kinky ketchup thing with like french fries where you had to like, you know, consensually, uh, feed fries and ketchup. Wow. It got, I got pretty, yeah, it got pretty kinky. Um, and I also, you know, made sure to find people who were into that know, like.

Yeah,

Rose: no mustards these days, you know?

Rose: And so all kinds of little successes, little and big successes have come out of the show. People have found partners and, . I joined d and d groups and one person got a, like a part-time marketing job at a sex club. So there's been, you know, employment opportunities. Oh, wow. Um, specifically sex club

Daniel: employment opportunities.

Daniel: Yes.

Rose: And specifically marketing at a sex club, which like every sex club needs a rebrand probably.

Rose: Yeah. And then just a lot of like community building and people in the audience also like show up in like big poly QEs and flirt with each other and flirt with people on stage. it's a good time and I've been doing it in Brooklyn and in San Francisco. And then August will be my first show in Portland.

Laurel: I am so, so deeply sad. We will not be in Portland. When your show comes around. I know. I'm like, very, because you're

Rose: on a Star Trek, right? Or Yeah, we're on a

Laurel: Star Trek with Las Vegas and if it were anything else, I'd be like, let's just postpone and stay.

Laurel: Yeah.

Rose: I, I think to be fair, you will find love at the Star Trek today. I think people, chances, perhaps

Daniel: we bring love with us. We take love when we go.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: But what is the date of your Portland show? Because I'm just going to make a, producer lead decision right now. I'm not consulting anybody.

Daniel: I'm gonna pull this episode forward so that Oh, so we

Nichole: can Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good idea.

Daniel: So that we can release it before your show and so that our extensive listenership in Portland, Oregon. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Baby will, know where to, to come for the love. So,

Rose: The show is Thursday, August 7th at Curious Comedy Theater.

Rose: Nice. Perfect. you been to that theater? Do you know the vibe?

Laurel: I have been there before. I like that one 'cause it's like good, like intimate vibe. Like you don't feel super separate from the stage.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. it's always been fun every time I've gone there.

Rose: Good. Well, I've been getting a lot of applicants so far. It's I mean, it's always interesting to like, feel out the differences in different cities, but I like , the poly people I've talked to so far in Portland.

Rose: Yeah.

Daniel: I just feel so much of a, , a tingle of alignment here in our general vibes. Right. Tingles. Yeah. It's, it's, it's kind of a thing.

Daniel: We have a lot of different brands of tingles.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: On this show we have the Jew tingle where we know when other Jews are around. Yeah. We have Are you feeling

Rose: that with me right now? Be honest.

Daniel: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Rose: Okay.

Daniel: I honestly wouldn't share that the Jew tingle exists if I didn't have the Jew tingle with you, because I feel like I don't want Wow. It spread around, you know?

Rose: Yeah. You don't wanna tingle too far. Yeah.

Daniel: , But primarily it's this notion that polyamory can now move beyond, its like educational stage in media representation.

Daniel: For a segment is this Poly. We look at pieces of media sometimes and we decide whether or not it's poly. And for a long time we could only really find songs that were trying to convince you like that their somebody's throuple situation is okay or cool.

Daniel: Like they all, yeah,

it

Daniel: all felt like super educational. And now we've started to discover that there are some other songs that are out there that are just all about like joy and expression of a multiplicity of loves. And I think that that is an inflection point that's going on in the media all over the place right now with polyamory and I, and I think that like any people who are a little bit on the margins, happens racially, it happens with, sexual preferences.

Daniel: Like the first wave of representation is all about being the best possible example of whatever you are, right? And then eventually it starts to move past and you just start getting more organic representations of life as lived.

Laurel: Yeah. I just call it transcending the respectability phase.

Laurel: Yeah. It's when we all get so tired of trying to be

Nichole: a model. So I'm not fucking up. I'm just transcending respectability.

Laurel: Yeah. Well, it's it's like bullshit in any subculture of people that you can be perfect enough to get acceptance.

Laurel: Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel: I think there's always that struggle in subcultures or like for oppressed people of trying to like, make themselves, , palatable to the masses. And the only way you can do that people think is by being like a perfect model of whatever, like subculture you are. I don't think that ever like really works ' 'cause you never, you can never convince people that you are good by being better than them.

Laurel: Like, nobody is like, oh yeah, yeah, wow. I am a piece of shit. And I like you.

Rose: I agree. I think the other piece of it is that especially on social media, people who are poly and out there , are trying to show the best versions of themselves because they're getting harassed constantly. Yes. And like when I first launched my show, I was just getting like messages from people who are just saying, Ew.

Rose: Yeah. Or gross. Yeah. That was like a full message. It's a high bar that we put on ourselves for our own protection. . But at the same time, I think there's also a protection that can come from just like being comedic online I'm just riffing about something, then you can't come at me. 'cause nothing I'm saying is real anyway, baby. Right.

Rose: Same

Daniel: Zs. Same

Laurel: Zs. Yeah. Well, it's like if I don't take myself too seriously, then I can't take your critique of me so seriously either. You're bullshit critique, I mean, one word. Ew. We got that. Like when we ran like advertisements on Instagram for a little bit, we would get a lot of the like gross, You know Satan Spawn comments. Yeah. And I was like, okay. That's

Daniel: right. We got called, , like a C rebrand a lot.

Oh yeah.

Daniel: A lot be. Really? Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. Wow. It's one of the most common opinions of the public about Poly Amateur Hour. Yeah. Poly Amateur Hour. The cuck rebrand you've been waiting for

Rose: and we've been waiting.

Rose: Yeah. I think because people need to start in this educational space, especially people who are entering polyamory for the first time, they're like looking for resources, whatever. They're gonna find these, these books and podcasts, which is exactly how I started my poly journey.

Rose: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Rose: , But I also think now there's opportunity to. Just like celebrate the fact that polyamory doesn't need to be hard. Uhhuh that like, yes, these educational resources are great, but that doesn't mean you need to be an expert in anything in order to do polyamory. And it also doesn't even mean that like polyamory is harder than monogamy, which I feel like is something I just like hear in the EERs.

Rose: Oh, for sure. And like, I think monogamy sounds really hard. I couldn't do it.

Daniel: You know, one thing that you said earlier about how your relationship turned out to be nothing that you expected going in. Mm-hmm. Right. And I think that's part of the problem with kind of an over education in like poly dogma too, is it is never what you expect.

Daniel: Every relationship just kind of shows you a new aspect of yourself. , And I, I kind of think that like learning about relationships and having relationships in and of itself is just kind of a constant process of having your expectations wrecked.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's part of what I like about your, your show Rose though, is that like you're saying, like all of these different outcomes that come out of like these people connecting and meeting each other, whether it's professional or , like hobby oriented or like relationally oriented.

Laurel: that is something that is a unique celebration in polyamory that you get to like showcase and show off in your game show that like no other monogamous dating game is like, like, oh, well they got like a great d and d campaign and players out of this. Or like, oh yeah, this was like a really great like networking step for their career.

Laurel: But like that is like the nature of polyamorous relationships where you start setting some of those like expectations aside because you're like, I have no fucking idea where all of this is gonna go. Because that's how relationships are. But you get to be more open to all of these other like opportunities that come through it.

Laurel: And it doesn't always have to be just like strictly we are falling in love and being together forever.

Rose: But we get why the Bachelor can't end with everyone. Just like playing d and d. Right. America is wanting right now. Yeah.

Daniel: Poly Bachelor. You get to be part of their campaign at the end. .

Daniel: Well, I'm really glad that we share this, uh, general philosophy for how to go about relationships because today I'm just like the segue king today. You are. Yeah. Aren't I,

Rose: are you gonna announce that we're all in a relationship because it's where it feels like this is going.

Daniel: Surprise eyes, bro. I mean, if non-consensual ketchup eating is a thing that exists, which you implied, then maybe wish you implied. You did. You did imply this. I heavily implied that. Yeah. Yes. Then perhaps, you know, non-consensual podcast inclusion could exist, but it's not happening today.

Daniel: Not on my watch. , No. The segue that I was heading for before was that we share this great kind of philosophy around dating and around relationships, and so it is really. Wonderful that we happen to have invited you here today to do a little segment that we call Invitation to Love

Laurel: Invitation to Love is a little segment we like to do, uh, you can send us in screen caps of your dating profile from a particular app.

Laurel: , And we'll help make it better we think

Nichole: maybe,

Laurel: or we'll give you a lot of useless advice.

Laurel: And we got, , a profile this week, from a long time in early Stubbert, who we adore. Yeah, we're gonna go through their profile together. Yeah. And see what kind of magic we can stir up for them.

Daniel: But no matter how much we do adore this, stu, it does not mean that we will hold back.

Rose: I'm not holding back on this one.

Nichole: Hell yeah. Alright. So Stu has on their profile about just a big nerd looking for a fun secondary relationship with another poly person hinge in a v perens dating separately very demisexual pronouns.

Nichole: They, them Acab Pride is a protest. Free Palestine. What are you seeking? Dating casual encounters and fun finding community.

Daniel: First off, I do think that you are going to be shutting yourself off from a lot of possibilities by starting out saying that you are specifically looking for a secondary partner, even if you don't have a lot of bandwidth for somebody to be central to your life and in your schedule. I think it's pretty rare.

Daniel: For somebody to be like, yeah, I wanna be a secondary partner.

Nichole: Yeah. I mean, maybe that is something somebody is looking for.

Nichole: Or maybe there's another way to say that you have limited bandwidth.

Rose: . I see this as like they're naming that they have hierarchy, that they have some other folks that are more primary to them. But I, I wanna spin it as like, I want the positive version of this.

Rose: Instead of saying like, looking for a secondary, it's like looking for an adventure partner who wants to go hiking once a month or like, you know, PI pitch me on the best version of what this partnership looks like. Not that it's gonna be less good than your other partnerships.

Nichole: Yes. 'cause I think that there are different.

Nichole: Definitions for what secondary can be according to different people. Right. Right.

Daniel: I feel like you're also asking for some blanks to be filled in here, rose, where you know, okay, an adventure partner, we do this, this, that, and the other. Like, they quietly dropped it.

Daniel: They're a big nerd. But without any kind of information about what that nerdom implies, I feel like nerdom now like just implies a great passion for specificity of things, and I wanna know a little bit more about them if I'm in that kind of situation too. So, tell me about who you are and what you wanna do.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. With me and to me.

Rose: Yeah. And it's made with a big nerd thing. It's like, show don't tell or like, you know, introduce yourself and cling on or whatever. But like, instead of telling me. Prove it.

Rose: This part about hinge in a v dating separately, like I am a polyamory brown belt, like fluent completed polyamory Duolingo, and I actually do not know what they're talking about. So they're dating two? Yeah. They're

Laurel: three people. They're discussing.

Laurel: like Daniel is the hinge in a V between. Three of us, like Daniel's dating each of us, but Nicole and I aren't dating each other,

Rose: , So when they say they're looking for secondary, they mean secondary to their two primaries? That is a good question. Good question. Yeah. So

Daniel: I think they're looking for a tertiary

Rose: Okay.

Rose: Or maybe their primaries are co-primary. Yeah. This is math. I just don't, I don't wanna be doing math before I've met the person.

Nichole: That's fair. Very good point.

Rose: Or like, tell me what you love about your partners. Everything. I'm like, just spin a positive of like mm-hmm. I've got a lot of love in my life. I'm looking for someone who wants to join the Love Fest and, I don't know, go camping once a month.

Rose: I don't know what they want. I feel like this person's really into camping. I just get the vibe that's more from the pictures.

Daniel: Um, you wanna read the second sentence

Nichole: very. Demisexual,

Rose: Like,

Rose: I hate the lingo in our community. I love it, but I hate it. Like Yeah, yeah.

Laurel: I hear you.

Rose: Yes. Demi sexual pride, but also like the positive version of this again, could be like, I wanna get five cups of coffee with you and go on long walks before getting sexual. It's like, paint the picture for me of like, how this is gonna go well.

Rose: Mm-hmm.

Rose: Of like the best case scenario.

Rose: My field profile says looking for someone to smooch on a Tuesday. That's the first line. And then the context there is like, look, I got other partners, you're not gonna get my Friday.

Rose: Saturday, right off the bat, like,

yeah, and

Rose: I'm kind of sexy, but like smooch, you know, you are not gonna tie me up on a Tuesday. I gotta go

Nichole: to bed work in the morning.

Daniel: That's the only way you're gonna get me to go to sleep is just tie me up on a Tuesday.

Rose: Tie me up on a Tuesday. I'd be, I mad swipe on that.

Rose: I'd be like, yeah, you wanna tie someone up on Tuesday? Okay.

Daniel: So it's interesting to me, you kind of read demisexual as another limiting declaration, right? In the same ballpark as looking for a secondary, like you see demisexual as cool, your cock jets. Cool. Your

Rose: cock jets.

Daniel: Yeah,

God.

Rose: Yeah. Yeah. that's a fair call out of my bias as a sexual, as someone who identifies as very sexual.

Rose: maybe it's a, proud, positive declaration of like, very demisexual. Maybe they added an exclamation point.

Laurel: I did read it as a little bit of a warning, and maybe that's also my bias of like mm-hmm.

Laurel: Because I am the one receiving the warning of like, okay, we're not gonna get handsy.

Daniel: Laurel hears this as a declaration directly to her and sees a spotlight like descend. She freezes.

Laurel: It's like, also, and Beetlejuice,

Rose: how would you read it if my profile said very pansexual?

Daniel: I'd swipe right.

Laurel: I feel like I see that a lot in, women's profiles that are like, that say, yeah. Like very bisexual, very pansexual. I read that as like, women don't be afraid. like, , You're not just an experiment.

Rose: Okay, well now I'm coming around to very demisexual. That's like, they're Yeah. Very sure of their identity and grounded in that. And like reminding people, now I'm into it. Now I'm like, okay, this is, this is Demi pride.

Rose: Yeah.

Daniel: All right. And next step, I think this is the part of the profile that I'm dreading addressing, but.

Nichole: All right. Um, pronouns, they them.

Daniel: Oh no, that's not the part.

Nichole: I was like, what's

Daniel: your pride?

Nichole: Okay. Pronouns, they, them Acab Pride is a protest. Free Palestine.

Daniel: Okay. I'm going to, you know, be real hands off on all of the.

Daniel: Actual political statements and what they white might and what they white mean.

What they white me.

Rose: Wow. I want you to get into it. Tell me why you're, yeah. Tell me your hesitations. I'm here to, I'm here to unpack this with you, Daniel. Alright. Alright.

Alright.

Rose: Um, think some cops are awesome?

Daniel: Some cops are awesome.

Daniel: Why does, what's that abbreviation?

Nichole: Some cops are awesome.

Daniel: No, it's just, when I read a checklist like this, I feel like it is the leftist version of those signs in the yard that is like, in this home, And I don't feel like it gives me a real sense for an awareness of the issues behind it.

Daniel: It just feels to me like I have certain litmus tests that I must pass in order to engage with you. I think that that's. Fine. , None of the individual statements turn me off themselves when they're just all lined up,

Daniel: It just turns me off energetically.

Nichole: We've talked about how, like we want show don't tell on profiles.

Nichole: Right. And like, and knowing where this person is, it might have to be a little bit more explicit on their profile because they're not in a, in a very, very leftist metropolitan area. So it might be of service to them.

Daniel: So

Daniel: this list can do two things, right? One, its purpose is to scare off maga mm-hmm. Given where they are located. , But I think if you just do a little bit more creative writing around it, like, like also make it speak to the leftists who are looking for more than a surface level engagement.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. By giving me a little bit more detail, make Acab fun again. I don't know.

Rose: Wow. Wow. Okay. I've got, I've got a, I think it, I'm on the other side of this one, them having something in their profile that says Free Palestine, like that might be a way of flagging to people of color that they're gonna be a white person who's perhaps more aligned with their politics.

Rose: Perhaps, perhaps. I don't think they're really trying to talk to the, , you know, Israeli cops on field to be like, I'm not interested in you.

Laurel: I think like I have the opposite reaction to it where specifically being in Portland. Being around so many leftists. I think so many people are so full of shit. Like there are so many white lefties that will mm-hmm. Fill their profiles with this kind of stuff. And it doesn't actually make them like safe people. , , It's just the lists are like symbolic gestures and I've seen so many people make so many symbolic gestures and there is no meat to it.

Laurel: So it like has become so much more of a red flag to me than a green one like it will help you weed out a bunch of MAGA people.

Laurel: Is it going to tell you whether or not you like another leftist? No. just because I hold some like similar political ideologies about somebody doesn't mean that I'm gonna like, like any fucking thing about that person.

Laurel: It's like when I dated guys in high school. 'cause we like the same music.

Daniel: I think every piece of this profile is now suffering from a little bit of overemphasis because of a dearth of information. Like there's just not enough other stuff for us to go on to paint the whole person. Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yeah. And even if you say something like, if on my weekends I participate in these kinds of like political actions or that kind of thing. Like that is more. Interesting and telling. Or if it's like, yeah, I want someone to protest with me on Tuesdays.

Nichole: Like how Tuesday is the night that we decided everybody Tuesday is going on

Laurel: Tuesday

Nichole: dates, Tuesday's a hot night

Rose: to free Palestine.

Daniel: I mean, uh, this person, we do know that they have hooked up and met a lot of people at protests. Yeah. This is what the things

that

Daniel: they say. Do you know this

about this person? Yeah. We know this person. Yeah.

Daniel: Oh, that's hot. That should be the first sentence. Like, yes. Yeah. Very

Rose: bisexual. Except for when I'm at protests. I wild.

Nichole: Yeah.

Rose: They also have this interest section, which I actually is what I, I like them, I'm attracted to them based on the interests, playing trumpet, biking, podcasting, board games, gardening, rock climbing, swimming.

Rose: Like, we're

Daniel: gonna be doing shit together. Yeah. Oh yeah. I would love it if they took all of those things from the interest section and like transplanted some of them into the written part of the profile so that it's like, in their words, I'm not much of like an interest section, Perus. Yeah. In part because I think especially on field, the interest section is usually like ChAARI.

Rose: Yeah.

Daniel: Cuckolding

Daniel: and,

yeah.

Rose: You know, so,

Daniel: Let's look at some pictures.

Nichole: Okay. So we have this person and presumably a partner on what looks like a beautiful vista bluff.

Nichole: this person posing with presumably a partner or friend at drinks in a restaurant. Oof. And then this one, black turtleneck. Serious Look. Great Blazer. This one I think should be first if I'm going to give my my opinion immediately.

Daniel: I absolutely agree. And, you know, I have a weakness for a pixie cut too.

Daniel: Yes.

Daniel: overall thoughts on photographs. Too many partners. TMP. Mm-hmm. Um, like, I don't want to get the impression that I'm gonna have to like, weave my way through a crowd to hang out with you, right?

Daniel: You are looking to date as a molecule, like, , just show me mostly yourself. You know, you could have one picture with your partners in it. Let me know that you do know people you know

Laurel: I do like the mix of, I like adventure picks. Like out, doing things out in the wild, having a good time. And the more like,

like this is a portrait of me. Yes. In my turtleneck and I look good.

Rose: Okay. My take on the picks. Yeah. I think, uh, the blazer picks are very hot in a very dimmi sexual way. I would, I would get to know this person slowly. Um, I think, what else? I think the, I like that the biking picture has like jerseys that tells me they're like, serious about biking. So that gives me like further context.

Rose: group photos, I'm like. I'm okay with, uh, you know, joining their Poly Q Yeah. It seems like they have community that's fun to me it's more like the photos themselves. Like I'm getting more of the other people and less of like what their energy is in the group, maybe a little bit.

Rose: Yeah. That's fair. Yeah, it's kinda like the group dynamic is overshadowing who this person is. Um, maybe I want like a picture where they're a goofball if they've got goof energy, but I can't really tell if they do. That's kind of my biggest red flag with the, text of the bio and these photos.

Rose: I'm like, is this person gonna goof with me? Or is this like we're gonna drink tea and talk about politics? Are we gonna bike ride silently?

Laurel: We've spoken with the stubbert before They are very funny. Yeah. Like they can do it. They are. They can do great goof.

Laurel: And we are totally missing that. We are missing that so much. Yeah.

Rose: Put some goof in there.

Daniel: Free the goof.

Laurel: Give us your goof. They can do great goof.

Daniel: Give us your goof hard.

Laurel: Give us your goof. You're a catch. Give us the goof. Tell us more about you. Yeah.