Nichole: ,

Nichole: so we just got an email at work that like a person person is like leaving the company that I work for. ,

Nichole: they described him as like redacted is leaving to pursue his two great passions. His husband his aging parents.

Nichole: And I was like, if I, if I met anybody who described one of their great passions is their aging parents. don't know how to feel about that.

Daniel: is it like a hobby that he's just like really into, I don't dunno. He's like, I'm building them a ramp.

Nichole: I would never describe my husband as my greatest passion.

Oh.

Nichole: Um, sorry.

Well,

Laurel: Yeah. This is weird. So sometimes are like, so what do you do outside of work? And like, I can list a bunch of hobbies mm-hmm.

Laurel: And shit. But like, what I spend the most time on is my partners. But I feel like there's something not quite socially acceptable about like, like dating or having relationships like as.

Laurel: A passion or hobby. Like

Daniel: I'm really into golf and sex.

Laurel: Like Yeah,

Nichole: well, I think that because we exist in a mono normative culture, right? people don't consider dating or finding about out about other people as a hobby because the dating is supposed to end in marriage and then you're done.

Daniel: Yet people do put a lot of work into their like monogamous relationship. If they expect it to last too. But how weird would it be to hear that from like a married person? It's like, what do you, uh, what do you like to do in your time off?

Daniel: I like to really focus on my marriage. Yeah.

Nichole: Because then you would think like, okay, then what's wrong with it? Yeah, that's

Laurel: true. Right?

Daniel: Which is super fucked up to imagine that like, like you should only focus on and put energy into a relationship if it's on its last legs. Yep. You're like clear

Laurel: now that things are good between us, I can finally ignore you again.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. But it is a weird thing to try and like talk about I agree Laurel, because not that many people ask me at work. 'cause I think they've learned to just not ask. Um, they know your answer is gonna be, it's fine.

Yeah.

Nichole: Like nobody pursues any further when it comes to personal information about me. but the answer to that question of like, what do you do outside of work is like, um, I spend a lot of time with a lot of. People.

Daniel: Yeah. I mean, I think the weird thing about that answer is the juxtaposition of the two things too.

Daniel: Because one of them is like typically the kind of thing that might be a passion, right? Like a relationship. And the other is like typically something that people would think of as a burden, right? Is like caring for somebody who is aging.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Which I guess it's kind of inspiring that this person is describing it as something that they feel passionate about.

Daniel: I might not use the word passionate, it's a little bit like also though, if you asked me what I do outside of work and I just started like listing my health problems

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Which I kind of do sometimes like that, that's not that unusual for me at work. Like when people ask me, how are you?

Laurel: yeah, but like, how are you is a little different than like, what are you doing? Like what are you interested in?

Daniel: Physical therapy.

Laurel: Also what are you interested in is different than what are you obsessed with currently?

Laurel: I like that question better. What are you interested in?

Laurel: No. Are obsessed with currently

Nichole: whatcha not in the context of like OCD, but. In the context of like, what is taking up your mind space right now? and I'm like, yeah, Right now I am super into memoirs from mid-century women, basically actresses from the 1950s and 1960s and 1970s, their personal memoirs.

Nichole: That is something that I'm obsessed with right now. Yeah.

Laurel: But is like an interesting, that gateway obsession where if you ask me what I'm obsessed with right now, , it's like, oh, how do I stop feeling hurt by that thing my partner did three weeks ago?

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. And if you ask Daniel, it is, uh, Peter.

Laurel: We were worried about you like anthropomorphizing your doll, which is what I'm gonna call your ventriloquist dummy from now on your doll. Ew. But really, we should have been concerned about you anthropomorphizing your penis.

Nichole: You were not concerned about that.

Nichole: I, I was. But

Laurel: here's the thing. This, This is very telling about my blindness to concerning things

Laurel: Nicole knows right away. And I'm like three years later.

Laurel: That

is not, that is

Nichole: not true.

Daniel: You know,

Daniel: my calling my dick Peter was like a one time thing.

Laurel: You just did it so casually.

Daniel: I know. It was like, but it would've, it would've just gone away. . It was one of those things that was just, it was just happening in the background of my chaos mind.

Oh my God. You know, I think

Daniel: I like, I, I think I like I curled down and I said. Hey, Peter and I and

Laurel: the problem. The problem was I was in the room.

Daniel: Yes, yes. That was your mistake and you recorded it for posterity, but I don't think that this can be compared to alcoholism.

Oh my God.

Daniel: As far as concerning things about partners

that

Daniel: I ignore, it's like I had one drink once versus, versus I have a drink every day and I'm like, carry on conversations with my dick.

Nichole: Oh, fair. I guess it's nice. We can laugh about it now.

Nichole: Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour. I'm Daniel.

I'm World, I'm Nicole. I'm not Peter.

Daniel: Excuse you, Peter. Yeah.

Nichole: Well, fuck off.

Laurel: Knock, knock Peter.

Oh boy.

Nichole: What's our first segment?

Daniel: Today we were gonna start with a little bit of pip iop. Hmm. That would be

Nichole: poll in public invasion of provi. I forgot what the acronym was for. Poly and public invasion of pacy is when we talk about things we've run into in the wild that are poly related, those could be advertisements or people,

Daniel: So today we're gonna start by looking at an advertisement for a soft

drink

Daniel: called Dash,

Nichole: So yet again, this is what.

Nichole: Consumerism and poly look like together. Mm-hmm. Like We're selling, the idea of polyamory is you can have everything Yes. And we're going to provide you everything. In one product.

Laurel: Can I have everything?

Nichole: No, because the thing about, damn it, Nicole, the thing, but, but like, what's so like runs antithetical to this kind of advertisement, which we keep running into, is like the whole point I mean, at least for me, my expression of polyamory is that I am autonomous unto myself.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. And like, I choose to be in relationship with multiple people. I don't need those people to fulfill me or like offer me things Right. That I can't find in myself.

Laurel: I look at polyamory as like a kind of freedom. Mm-hmm. But. I think , what people don't understand about freedom and thus don't really understand about polyamory is that there's like this paradoxical trade off.

Laurel: Like the freer you are, the more responsible you have to be.

Daniel: I mean they to that in like middle school, , social science, didn't they, where they're like rights plus responsibilities equals freedom.

Laurel: Yeah. Which was when there was something left of our American education system.

Yeah,

Laurel: yeah. But also I don't think a lot of people like picked up on that. Like

Nichole: No, I think, 'cause immediately my mind goes to Team America. Freedom is free. There's a hefty fucking fee.

Daniel: soft drink is probably really overpriced and that's probably the fee that you have to pay for your freedom. It probably is. Yeah. So to build on your point Nicole, it is a capitalist view of non-monogamy in that you are receiving riches,

Daniel: just like the woman who , had like the polyamorous relationship with her haircare products. She is the receiver of all of the things. Yes. And, and she is, she's basically like, love rich. I have it all. I have things. I possess all of this and it's all directed at me.

Nichole: Yeah. All of these people are like cooking for her, cleaning for her, making art for her, like dotting on her.

Nichole: I, you don't see that they're in relationship with each other. Just her.

Daniel: And this also links up with what you said, Laurel, is it's like rights and responsibilities where she only has the rights, she has the rights to all of these partners. But it doesn't seem like soft drink experience also involves, back or doing any kind of work.

Daniel: I mean, I don't want to necessarily put this soft drink ad through therapy,

Daniel: but somebody has to. But there are a lot of things that I really like about this too. one, it's about poly marriages. Mm-hmm. For one, and we were just talking about this, laurel, about we don't know anybody who is kind of multiply, married, personal,

Laurel: personally.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. it's not something that you see in media.

Laurel: I also think it's something that sometimes the polyamory community shies away from because it looks like polygamy.

Laurel: They mean polygeny. And that's what they're really scared of.

Laurel: the difference between a bunch of people can get married to a bunch of people and one man can have multiple wives. Yeah. Gotcha.

Daniel: So I really like that. I really like having that depicted in any way, And second, I like that it's not sexualized really at all. So it's depicting polyamory again in the context of real relationships and not like a threesome with your DoorDash delivery per Like that one. Yeah,

Nichole: yeah, yeah.

Daniel: granted, it does depict all these things as only accessible to you if you exist in a Wes Anderson film.

Nichole: Right? Yes, I get it. I hear it. Yeah. Yes.

Daniel: Wes Anderson marriage, that's beigy, right? Like the one man stands directly in the middle of the frame, and then there's, and then there's equal number of wives on each side, Uhhuh.

Laurel: of people like can appreciate that they get very different things from their partners. Mm-hmm. But it's less about like, this one will cook for me and that one will clean for me. It's more like, we were talking about this Nicole, like, this one likes to backpack.

Laurel: Yes. And this one likes to go to concerts or we like the same music. Like there It's just like enjoying the fact that you have multiple people to enjoy like multiple facets of yourself with. Right. Yeah.

Nichole: But if you're going to sell polyamory within capitalism, it has to be like somebody who can do something for you.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Build a tree house. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. Hmm. I don't have one that can build a tree house yet. Gotta go get one. Gotta go get 'em. Gotta catch 'em all. Gotta catch 'em all.

Daniel: So next up on pip iop, we've got the news about Neo, the r and b singer who had a string of hits in the aughts coming out as polyamorous and being in a committed relationship with four women.

Daniel: This is from the Cosmo article. If you've ever found yourself thinking, Hmm, I wonder what Neo is up to these days. The answer is having four girlfriends. this update comes from the artist himself who dropped the hard launch to end all hard launches this weekend when he introduced not one, but four relationships to the world in a recent Instagram post.

Daniel: Since the world is so intrigued, I guess I should introduce my loves properly. captioned a series of photos featuring four women, ladies and gents.

Daniel: I present my pyramid. I dunno if I like that.

Nichole: No,

Daniel: And then does he rule , the top though?

Nichole: Is

Daniel: it hierarchical?

Nichole: We can't answer the question if it's hierarchical or not, because we don't know anything about these four women.

Daniel: it just makes me think of the, the, like EPLs, unum. Illuminati.

Nichole: Yeah. And it's eyeball. It's assuming that these four, all four women are going to stay. Or if one leaves that he has to get another one. In order to maintain the pyramid shape.

Daniel: Oh, do you think this is an OCD thing where he is trying to No.

Daniel: Create a very specific shape?

Nichole: No, but also I was imagining a human pyramid. I was like, how do we get, like I was also

Laurel: picturing them

Nichole: stacked on top of each other. Yeah. Yeah. Which doesn't work with five people. No. It would only be two layers.

Daniel: It's got the air of a closed pyramid. Right. Uhhuh, but at the same time, like, it does just seem super joyful and, , kind of wholesome in a way too.

Daniel: It says in the post , say something nice or move on with your life. We happy over here.

Daniel: One of the first things that, one of the comments points out is that he gives links to all of their personal businesses too.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Because each one of them has their own thing going on. Mm-hmm. And he's like also trying to, give connections to them as entrepreneurs. Mm-hmm. Which I think is kind of cool.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And which links up? I went down like a neo rabbit hole today.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And I found this song by him, which feels like it might be kind of a proto solo poly anthem. Okay. that's all about independent women. Wait, is this an impromptu, is this Paul?

Daniel: Is this poly?

Nichole: Ah, and yes. Yeah.

Nichole: I felt very seen.

Nichole: It did make me sad that I didn't know the song existed until now, and that it hasn't been my anthem for the last 15 years.

Daniel: If she would've mentioned like calendars and like timekeeping abilities, I think that you would, uh,

Nichole: okay. But the, the video took place in an office and all the women were like writing down things and they were organizing things and they were on the phone making deals and like, you know, looking at spreadsheets, like, that was great.

Laurel: like yeah. If you extrapolate the, like she's got her own thing going on that like, is at least a little antithetical to toxic monogamy. Mm-hmm. Where your, spouse is supposed to be your passion. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. He loves her because she's got her own thing going on.

Laurel: Yeah. And then you could extrapolate her own thing to be her own life and her own dates. Mm-hmm. Et cetera.

Daniel: nobody writes love songs about the independence of their partners. I don't know that I've ever heard a love song all about how their partner was just so independent and did not need them.

Nichole: Yeah. And I love that there are four women in this music video that he's singing about. Yeah. He is singing about four different women.

Daniel: So maybe he was all along trying to build this pyramid and he was visualizing it.

Nichole: No, I don't, think he was trying, because that makes it sound like harem building. I think he was just like. I know what I'm attracted to

Daniel: Uhhuh,

Nichole: and yeah. I'm attracted to

Daniel: four business ladies.

Nichole: I think it just happened to be four. Like I, I think he just happened to now he happens to have four. That's where he gets saturated.

Nichole: Maybe

Laurel: at four. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He's

Daniel: like a bulent. It's like three wives. That's it.

Laurel: Maybe this is sort of the poly hyper vigilance of like, wait, is it just heron building? Like When you see one man surrounded by multiple women and it's unclear whether or not those women have other relationships.

Nichole: This is the way that I'm choosing to interpret this.

Nichole: He respects their autonomy so much that he doesn't want to speak to their other relationships and he respects their independence and champions their. Ability to have businesses and like he champions them so much mm-hmm. That he's using his platform to vault. Yeah. Yeah. Like who they are. Yeah. Because that's the extent to which he can do that, right? Mm-hmm. Like, he's not gonna blow up their spot as far as like, and this person's fucking, these three people and like, you know, like Right. You can only speak to the relationship that he's in with three of them, four of them with the four of them.

Daniel: so maybe a pyramid is the ideal relationship structure.

Nichole: Again, I keep envisioning a human pyramid and like, it just does. It's not, it's more of a human mesa the way that I see it in my mind.

Daniel: Well, that makes it sound like a, like human furniture.

Nichole: No, I mean, like, you know, not a

Daniel: human chaise.

Nichole: Yeah. The,

Daniel: I'm all for this. I love their, I love their, like their party. Yeah. Picks in Las Vegas too. It reminds me of the party picks that we take in Las Vegas in the, the pepper mill where you were both wearing Oh, like, shiny the picks, uh, slinky dresses.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: The picks that were taken of us. Because the pepper mill hires a photographer. That's right. Yeah. To take photos of you and sell you photos. But we didn't buy any of them. We just took the free ones. No,

Laurel: I bought some. Did we buy? Oh yeah, I bought some. 'cause I felt bad for the photo photographer. Oh, I

Nichole: fucking loved it.

Nichole: I loved it. That's great.

Daniel: I love exploiting labor. Shut the fuck up.

Nichole: I don't have time for you to know. Wanting to make me be the bad capitalist. It's because I enjoy spreadsheets.

Daniel: I do like your, your business lady acc mon. I love your shoulder pads and your working girl sneakers. And your diet Cokes.

Daniel: All right. You're winning me back, miss. Independent.

What's up next? I think it's ask the amateurs.

Nichole: So we got a question submitted anonymously through our website, poly amateur hour.com. You can also email us if you have a question at poly amateur hour@gmail.com. Or you can send us a DM on Instagram at Poly Amateur Hour.

Daniel: Or you can approach me on the street.

Nichole: Yeah. Or at a party apparently, like we've gotten a couple of questions at parties.

Nichole: Um,

Laurel: oh, we're also on Blue Sky. We are, yeah. At Poly Amateur Hour. What is that? , Is it the answer to Twitter? Yes. Okay.

Daniel: Diet Twitter with zero white nationalist calories.

Laurel: and a lot more porn. Mm. Oh yeah. Maybe I should get on that. Yeah. Everybody get on Blue Sky

Nichole: for the porn.

Nichole: Because I'm not on Tumblr anymore because they took the porn away. What is the point? Yeah. I want social justice. I want porn and I want recipes. I don't think that's too much to ask for

Laurel: one stop shop. Yeah. Blue sky porn recipes and. Justice. Yeah.

Daniel: And, and despite the branding, it's not about BB King.

Daniel: It's not Blues guy. Got it.

Nichole: Gotta pay the troll toll.

Daniel: Gotta hear the blues guy to post something on Blue Sky, Uhhuh.

Nichole: Okay. years ago, my husband and I decided we would try opening our relationship up because it was something we both had an interest in doing. He started out of the gate with dates and having fun while I stayed home with the kids. Now, Christmas of 2024, I decided two weeks prior to get a dating app. I quickly found a match and we've hit it off from the start. Ever since I got a partner, he's had major jealousy issues and trust issues regarding me having a relationship outside of us.

Nichole: He'll go through my messages and get mad because I'm sexting my other partner or having a conversation. . We had a huge argument because we'd spent his birthday weekend talking slash arguing over my relationship with this other person. I do realize I ruined his birthday.

Nichole: Oh, girl.

Daniel: I think he ruined his birthday. Yeah.

Nichole: That hurt, that hurt my heart. I did not like reading that. Okay. The huge argument was mainly how he wanted to end the open relationship and stop seeing these other people, his girlfriend and my other partner.

Nichole: I explained we cannot make a snapped judgment because one of us is having hard emotions and and just shut these people off because we both have feelings for the other partners. I've continued to work on myself to understand my heart emotions, how to handle what my triggers are, and educating myself in all things polyamory.

Nichole: However, my husband has refused to do so. not sit in the discomfort of these emotions, break them down and says I'm forcing him to stay in the open relationship because then I'd be unhappy and what I want goes perens not true. I can see my husband doing wonders in a polyamorous relationship and thriving, but currently he's refusing to do the work to get there.

Nichole: What is your advice on moving forward? I don't want to my marriage to end because I love him and I want a lifetime with him, but I also find so much joy in being polyamorous. Also Nicole, love your laugh.

Nichole: Heart emoji.

Laurel: Man. Man.

Daniel: Men.

Laurel: Men. It's not, it's not, it is not an exclusively man thing. Oh, no, no. are so many folks who open up their relationships. It's great until one partner finds a strong partnership or anybody at all. Mm-hmm. And then the other partner gets super upset and does not do the work. Yeah, yeah. And just wants to shut everything down.

Daniel: And personally, I don't know that this is a problem that's exclusive to polyamory or opening your relationship. What I see here as the central problem is one partner who wants to do interpersonal work and cultivate some self-awareness maybe cultivating a little bit too much self-awareness in that you're blaming yourself for like ruining his birthday while the other partner doesn't seem to be into looking inward.

Daniel: I don't know whether you've proposed therapy stu, or whether you have laid out like some options about how you might work together to begin to communicate a little bit more clearly or to be able to regulate your husband's emotions. but I don't think that closing the relationship is going to fix the unregulated emotions on the part of your husband and his unwillingness to.

Daniel: Do personal work,

Nichole: it would provide a temporary sav, but yeah, it would be extremely temporary. And at the same time, Stu, you're absolutely right. Like you would be, , hurting two people that, that you and your husband have grown close to. Yeah. You know, you'd just be discarding them basically. It's sort of disturbing

Laurel: that hubby is so willing to do that

Nichole: with someone that he is

Laurel: committed, like Yeah, yeah.

Laurel: Or at least somewhat committed to. Yeah. That's, yeah. And that's like, you know, goes to what Daniel is saying and you like, as it'll be a temporary solve, but like, it's the issue is still gonna be there. Yes. Yep. that hubby is someone that was willing to toss aside somebody like that, that he's not willing to do work.

Laurel: Yeah. , Or self-growth, or examine difficult feelings. cannot stay in his fucking lane. Yeah. Don't read my fucking text messages. Are you serious?

Daniel: Mm. You know? Yeah. That kind of like breezed right by me Stubbert you were so nonchalant about that I didn't really realize this guy is snooping in your phone.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. And probably doing it under the guise of like, well, if you won't let me, like, how am I supposed to trust you? Kind of shit. That's a projection. They didn't actually say that, but I mean that far of projection.

Nichole: Now

Daniel: let's play act. You be the husband,

Nichole: you'll be the stu. disturbing behavior, right? Like yeah. I don't really want to pathologize, but it's probably crossing a boundary you didn't think you would have to set. Yeah. Mm-hmm. reading personal message or like keeping personal things personal.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Um, Reddit would love to ask you now, like, well, did you do any work before opening your relationship?

Laurel: Reddit. Reddit would love to be like, you coerced your husband into doing this, and that's not consent.

Nichole: So I think like at least one piece of advice is like, please don't go to Reddit to ask

Daniel: about this.

Daniel: I love that we've kind of anthropomorphized Reddit, like we reference Reddit. It's Reddit's like Chet. Right. Yes. Uhhuh. Yeah. Reddit is like the, the shitty, sloppy amalgam of all voices in a similar way to the way that shed is. Right?

Nichole: Yeah. And not to say like, you came to the right place, but I think you maybe came to a better place.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Um,

Nichole: As far as like practical advice, Daniel, I think you ask a good question of like, have you considered therapy? Because this isn't necessarily a polyamorous conundrum. It's the fundamental disconnect between like a partner who is very, very willing to work on themselves Yeah.

Nichole: And one who isn't. Yeah.

Laurel: Right.

Nichole: And that's a mismatch of values. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. And you're gonna start seeing that everywhere. Like now that this nugget Yes. Is in your brain, even if you close your relationship off, you're going to start like reinforcing this perception Yes. With other data points. and Most likely it'll probably have to happen through therapy.

Laurel: Like, unless you can come to some like common ground of like, this is my expectation. You can't like force another person to grow or want to grow. Mm-hmm. But you can say like, my expectation is I'm with somebody who can like, consistently treat me in these ways, regardless of their emotions.

Laurel: Yeah. At the time. Yeah. don't know if polyamory is a deal breaker for you or not. You probably sort of know that in yourself to some degree or another. I would encourage you to like imagine your ideal world. Which you don't have to hurt anybody. Yeah. And you don't have to like uphold anybody else's expectations of you.

Laurel: And what does your life look like in that world? And it fits Polly. That's probably means something to you if it's ambivalent or not. That also means something to you.

Nichole: And I think you can take the time to like, you know, and that ideal might evolve. Yes. Right? Yeah. I have made the mistake of thinking that like, well if I do all of this self work and then I tell my partner about all of the self work that I'm doing, that they will also do self work. Yeah. Right. Like preach. You might have to be, I'm like, I'm such a good model and like obviously like I'm such a good partner to them, that they're gonna be like, inspired to be a good partner to me.

Nichole: Does not work. Does not work. so I encourage you to express, this is something that you value in someone else is their ability to do self work.

Daniel: Nicole has really tried modeling, picking up socks to me.

Laurel: Never worked. Not once

Daniel: putting away seltzers,

Laurel: but you know what? It works on me.

Nichole: I model for you how to pick up after him.

Nichole: Yeah. So then there's two people doing it. Yeah. Oh my God.

Laurel: Oh yeah. Like I can see this is a thing Nicole feels like she has to do 'cause Oh, it must be 'cause Daniel's not doing it. I'll help out with that. My plan worked.

Laurel: Oh my God. But it works on someone with the same level of self-growth.

Nichole: You are not picking up socks is not a knock on yourself. Growth, babe. No, it's not at all. It's not, this is not the same thing. I am more saying that like in recent partnerships I've been like sharing, like, I read this book and I did this thing and I did, I talked to my therapist about this and blah, blah, blah.

Nichole: Yes. And with the expectation of I also did all of that. Yeah. And more, and like that never, never

Laurel: happened. Yeah. No, I'm realizing ways in which I have and do apply that to my relationships. Mm-hmm. And like, I think unlike a larger like, ethereal paradigm, like Yeah. You just wanna model the kind of person you wanna be to show the world what is possible.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. But yeah, it's, it can never be like an expectation that your partner or someone intimate with you is gonna pick that up and run with it.

Nichole: I mean, it's the same thing with like, I don't wanna say like making gestures, but like I had the expectation that if I invited this person into my personal circle Yeah.

Nichole: Or like invited them to, Seder. Yeah.

Laurel: Like, yeah. That they would, there

Nichole: would be some kind of reciprocation. Yeah. And I never expressed just like. What this meant to me.

Laurel: Yeah. Actually this is like a value of mine. Yeah. And I wanna see that exhibited in the people around me. Yeah. That I'm allowing intimacy with.

Nichole: Also, I made this 12 hour brisket fucking just like crazy. I'm mad that I wasn't there.

Daniel: I told you the Seder story and you did not participate at all.

Laurel: Oh my God. oftentimes when you open up relationships, they don't last. But what not the polyamory, it's not the openness that ended the relationship. It's everything else you discover in the meantime. Mm-hmm. , And that might be the case here. , it's sort of like surface level and superficial to be like, oh, my relationship ended because like I couldn't handle them being with other people.

Laurel: I'm not polyamorous, whatever. But it's like, what is underneath all that? And in this situation that things are difficult right now is because your husband. Managing and coping with his emotions and trying to figure out how to like grow and learn from them. Yeah. And instead just wants to control your

Daniel: behavior.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. He's making his emotional reaction about your behavior. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like he's, he's not owning that this is an issue with him and that he has an equal stake in it. He just says, change your behavior so that I can feel better.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then weaponizing that against you as if you're the one making the ultimatum.

Laurel: Right. You're forcing me to stay in this just for your happiness.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And the flip side of that, he's forcing you to get out of it for his happiness and comfort. Yeah. Stu, do you want to hold onto your relationships? It seems like, and this is a little bit of projection, but it seems like you're placing value on these other people in your lives and recognizing them as like full human beings who you don't want to treat some kind of way because somebody else is sad.

Laurel: And like, how much do you value that? And how much do you value those relationships the c word is you're not supposed to use it in, huh? Yeah. You're not supposed to use it in polyamory, but in comparison to your relationship with your husband. Oh, yeah. Say I use it all the time.

Daniel: She is wearing a t-shirt right now that says Diet cunt.

Laurel: How much of a cunt do you want to be, Stewart? And I'm gonna say, and it's okay to be a cunt

Daniel: mm-hmm.

Laurel: But like,

Daniel: serve it.

Laurel: But like, is coming down to some of these like, fundamental questions for me. Like, I know in situations like this, with the dissolution of my own marriage, , it was more important to me.

Laurel: To exercise my values and my integrity mm-hmm. Than it was to stay in that relationship because I knew it would destroy me.

Mm-hmm.

Nichole: I also have to point out that we are three people who do not have children. Yes. Yeah. And there are children in this equation. And so,

Daniel: oh, I totally missed

Nichole: it. I totally forgot about that.

Nichole: Or didn't see it. Yeah.

Daniel: I don't see children.

Nichole: I just want, I like, I want to stress that we are giving this advice from the place of like, we do not have children, and so we don't have to take into account Yeah. Any like children when making these decisions,

Laurel: your children

Daniel: are not, we have to, we have to take into consideration the children of the world.

Laurel: You're gonna fuck up your kids one way or another. You might as well be happy while you do it.

Aw.

Hmm. Yeah.

Daniel: I think even are some like boundaries that you can put in place, healthy even advance getting into therapy. One, don't look at my shit. Yeah. two, that you will not, be receiving the judgment that his emotions are your doing.

Daniel: You can let him know that this is not a truth that I am willing to believe. That your relationship is what's causing his sadness. Right. ,

Laurel: and remember that your boundaries are your responsibility.

Laurel: Yes. So if he starts engaging in behaviors, it's not like you're bad, you violated a boundary. It is like, hi, I have to leave this situation. Like I have to take a step back. Mm-hmm. It doesn't mean you have to pack your bags and leave, but it means you leave the room or discontinue engaging in the conversation.

Laurel: Yep.

Daniel: This is one of the few times , you've come at us with a question of such import in which we have not been able to say, don't worry about it.

Laurel: Yeah. Just, just don't worry about it. Just keep doing what we're doing.

Laurel: Don't worry about it.

Daniel: Please keep us surprised though. This is the kind of one where it's like such a heavy

Laurel: Yeah. Story.

Daniel: We are all feeling for you we hope to get to a point where we can tell you don't worry about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel: That's, that's always our goal is to getting to Don't worry about it.

Laurel: Yeah.

Laurel: What do we got next?

Daniel: Oh, we had a wonderful little session with aub from, from, I was about to say afar.

Laurel: Not that afar A farm. Yeah.

Daniel: Now, now this is just evidence of like how fucking Portland and insular we are about our Portland ness in that we can consider something like, oh, that's so distant when somebody writes to us from two hours outside of Portland and they're like, well, I don't know.

Daniel: I'm only two hours outside of Portland, and we're like two hours outside of Portland.

Nichole: But it is a, I mean, it's a different experience being polyamorous in a small town than it is in a mid-sized city.

Laurel: So we had Ben from Corvallis on a little segment we call my own poly Idaho, where we talked to folks about their poly experiences in places that are not Portland.

Laurel: if you'd like to be featured in a segment of my own poly Hi. Hide a hoe Uhhuh, please come hide a hoe.

Daniel: No, no, no. Reveal them.

Laurel: Reveal your hoes. Yeah.

Daniel: Show ya hoe.

Laurel: Yeah. If you're not in Portland and wanna be on a segment of my own poly I, my own poly Idaho Uhhuh, write to us at Poly Amateur hour@gmail.com.

Laurel: And yeah, we'll take about an hour of your time, , dicking around on Zoom.

Laurel: Roll tape.



Laurel: Do you, do you have a preference for what we call you?

Ben: You can just call me Ben. I don't really care.

Laurel: Okay, cool. Okay. And you're okay with that being broadcast to the entire world? Oh, absolutely. Okay. Sick.

Nichole: so sorry that I was so formal at first.

Nichole: Hello, Benjamin?

Ben: Oh, I don't mind. I, it's fine. I have no preference there. Everyone just calls me whatever they're comfortable with. Sweet.

Daniel: I take as many syllables as I can get. I lack in stature. I make up for in name length,

Daniel. Oh,

Ben: I like that. Yeah. Do you mind if I use that?

Daniel: Go ahead.

Daniel: Use me, Ben.

Daniel: So thank you for, , reaching out to us. Nicole always wants to ask did you become Polly, you know, in your poly journey? I'm always like, how did you hear about us?

Ben: Well, I heard about you from Wendy Pretty, because I've been listening to Greatest Jen for, well, actually since they started, I think it was episode three of their podcast.

Ben: Oh, And, um, as far as being Polly goes, it's been, as far as I know my whole life, I mean, all through high school and everything, current longest partner I been together 23 years and Poly the entire time.

Nichole: Wow. Wow. That is amazing. So how did you, so, so your first relationship ever was mm-hmm. A non-monogamous poly relationship when you were in high school, which makes

Ben: it Yes. I was a theater kid, so that's easier.

Daniel: Ah, got it. Course you, you're in a, you're in a relationship with the entire chorus.

Ben: Exactly. So, you know, it does make it a little easier that way.

Ben: you know, it's just when you're in that group and everyone kind of swaps freely, it just makes it easy to, you know, be a little poly. Because even though you'd say you've broken up with one partner, you're still kind of with them 'cause you're still doing theater together and then you happen to kind of hook up with someone else.

Ben: But, you know, the relationships never really, truly go away.

Nichole: Wow. That's fascinating.

Daniel: Wow. Is it too late for me to get into like a regional musical theater? Yes.

Nichole: Yes it is. Yes, honey. No, but we talked,

Daniel: I'm sorry, I mean,

Ben: locally. No,

Laurel: Curious how, maybe the. Cultural informality of non-monogamy that you experienced in high school, , shifted maybe, if there was a moment where it was like, oh, okay, no, polyamory is what I'm doing,

Ben: when I was younger, I realized that the whole monogamy approach was not gonna work for me. And especially when I left high school and went to college, it was like, oh, look at all these people who are deconstructing relationships and the norms of everything, like, uh, gender, et cetera.

Ben: And I just fit in really well. And so I never had a chance to rebel because I never, you know, I never went into a group that was like explicitly monogamous and then was like, I'm fighting against you. I was always just kind of with a group of people that were always doing these type of things. So it I felt comfortable at all times.

Laurel: That's awesome. Wow. Yeah, I'm like, I'm jealous.

Daniel: to scratch your, uh, rebellion itch. You've had to come on this podcast.

Ben: Well, you guys sound great. You're fun, you're lighthearted. And that's the type of thing that I'm into. You know, I, I don't need a angry militant group. I need people who are sharing joy and pleasure.

Ben: And in fact, I don't know, we'll just number them to be easy. My number two, long-term partner, she is all about, being a forest ferry and love Aw. And spreading joy. So, you know, I try to do the same.

Nichole: That's very sweet. Yeah,

Daniel: Can we all be forest fairies now too? Do you have the power, Ben, to bestow this upon us?

Ben: absolutely. If you'd like to come hang out. We have a, um, semi-private forest that we hang in. He has a little, um, yeah, a little camp if you guys wanna come and chill. It's, kind of on the far side of town, but we're generally just surrounded by trees and deer and turkeys that like to sleep in the, uh, trees.

Daniel: Oh. Oh, wow. Wow. Poly amateur hour is gonna go fucking feral. Yeah. Sounds magical.

Daniel: Ben, do you know why you're here? Yes.

Ben: I'm never sure, but I'll do the best I can.

Daniel: We've invited you here for our segment, my own Polly Idaho.

Daniel: which as a North Westerner, you are one of the few people who will actually get the joke off the bat.

Daniel: So the first question that we'd like to ask is what is unique about being poly? Where you're at?

Ben: You know, it's, it's surprisingly accepted versus if you go even a few miles over to the next town.

Ben: So as soon as you cross the river from us, you get to Albany, which was almost Oregon's first capital. And it's incredibly conservative compared to where we are at. generally. almost feel like I'm a fixture in the downtown. , We are part of the community and extremely accepted and it's just not something that usually comes up.

Ben: You know, there's occasionally someone that comes in, usually a young person who is interested, that kind of corners me at, say if I go to the bar and they'll ask a bunch of questions, but then they kind of go off and do their own thing and I don't see them again. But generally I like being a resource for them.

Nichole: I love that you're like. The mayor of Poly Town. Yeah, yeah. Like people seek you out. You just have an energy about you. Yeah. Or I don't know, maybe you wear a shirt that says, ask me about my, I actually do

Ben: have a shirt. Do I have one? It says, it says Poly Guru. Ask me anything. Oh.

Nichole: Oh, stop. That's so, I love that so much.

Nichole: Oh

Daniel: my God. God. Send. So it's, it's not just like, you're the, the street corner philosopher that like, people go to the town square and they like, seek out the village, , slut. Not quite that bad, but thank you.

Daniel: next up what we usually ask, it's a little strange asking these questions of someone who is like in driving distance. Like, I think we could get there relatively quick. Yeah. We could all get in a car right now and come see you two hours,

Ben: you know?

Ben: Yeah, you're welcome. Um, we're totally, we love doing dinner parties. I love doing things like, . Pork Wellington. I'll do some fresh pies. I did, uh, an apple butter pie the other day with a, cherry tart, like, wow, wow. We're willing to have some fun.

Ben: This is,

Laurel: this

Ben: is good

Laurel: advertising. The turkeys sleeping in the trees and pork wellington and pies I'm in and,

Daniel: and you're lucky. found like. You know, some really misbehaving Jews. Yeah. Oh shoot. I'm so sorry. No, no, no. Don't, don't be at all. Don't be, don't be. I was raised with a, a grandmother who loved sweet and sour shrimp.

Daniel: Oh, okay. Well,

Ben: how about Turkey? I'm, I'm good at doing Turkey too,

Daniel: if you'd like.

Uh,

Daniel: no, don't keep the pork from us just because Are you, are you antisemitic?

Oh my God.

Daniel: Not at all. Um, in fact,

Ben: in fact, it's, um, naturally raised purebred Berkshire, from a family farm, so

Nichole: Wow. Of course it, there you go. It's, wow.

Nichole: I love that. I like

Daniel: to think of the ancient Hebrews had had that kind of pork. They would've been into it,

Ben: you know.

Daniel: Oh,

Ben: absolutely. As long as we didn't like cook the pig in its own mother's milk, or, I don't remember the exact Yeah. Nothing like that. Yeah.

Daniel: Which I never got. Why You can't like, have cheese and chicken because Jesus Christ, like chickens don't have milk cheese.

Nichole: Christ.

Daniel: I could see someone try to

Ben: milk a chicken, but it wouldn't go well.

Daniel: milk. The chicken has gotta be a masturbation. Choke the chicken.

Daniel: Yeah, but you, you choke it until the milk it comes, until it,

oh my God.

Daniel: Um,

Daniel: So the next question we usually ask is yes. What kind of resources are there where you're at? Like to be poly besides just going to the town square and waiting for the people to approach you?

Daniel: Yeah. It sounds like

Nichole: you are the resource. Yeah. Yeah.

Ben: I, I more or less am the resource, but, uh, there is, I've also, an old friend of mine and we've set up a, , kind of legal practice for those who wanna set up, poly civil unions, much like the Somerville, Massachusetts style.

Ben: Okay.

So.

Ben: Basically it's a binder. 'cause you know, when you get married you're triggering something like 200 different laws and you can enumerate them. So they're not auto trigger laws. They're something you sign on to. So we actually have, family planning books now for people who are in poly relationships who can set up to have actual family trusts for multi-partner relationships.

Ben: Wow. Wow.

Daniel: So, Ben, are you a lawyer or is this an illegal

Daniel: practice?

Ben: No, no. , My friend is a lawyer. He's actually a partner at one of firms right around the corner from me. I actually am in construction. build houses and restore the old, , buildings around town. Oh wow. The historical buildings. We've just worked together to try and do what we can to generally help others and eventually down the line, those who don't have the means, to come forward and have everything written, we can at least have a, , body of law that they can use to, protect themselves and others moving forward.

Daniel: Wow. I mean, I think that you're both providing a really important service because like, these are the two things that poly people need is one, legal advice and then two big old houses Yes. Restored.

Ben: Yes. I love mine. Uh, was built in 1939 and it's perfect for all of us.

Laurel: Amazing. Oh, I love that. Wait, can I ask personal questions like how many partners you live with ,

Ben: I live with three partners and two children, so Oh,

Laurel: oh.

Ben: And the turkeys and trees and the, and the turkeys

Laurel: and the deer. Oh,

Ben: yes.

Laurel: My heart is melting.

Daniel: Yeah. And the nice thing about like, like the turkeys in the trees, like the turkeys are what they seem.

Daniel: Yeah, they don't hide

Ben: anything.

Ben: like whenever you have a problem, what you really need is a backward speaking dwarf and a log uhhuh. Yeah.

Daniel: And honestly, both my partners have that in me.

Daniel: Awesome.

Laurel: like. What inspired you personally collect and put together these resources?

Ben: So probably the biggest thing was, when my grandfather died, , he did not have his estate properly prepared.

Ben: And I wanted to be fully prepared 'cause I'm the type of person that, plans for every disaster. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That prepares for anything down the line. So I wanted to make sure that, you kids were taken care of, my partners were taken care of. so I don't have to worry about anything.

Daniel: Your favorite podcast. Taken care of the greatest gen, more or less. Yeah. Greatest gen is

Ben: they're gonna be okay. Well, yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I've got a, a diverse run of there, you know, poly amateur hour, greatest gen behind the bastards. You know, I've, I've basically got the whole gamut. Nice, nice.

Nichole: I am so making a binder. You said laminated card. And I'm like, I am in, I'm gonna go to Staples after this.

Nichole: Like, holy shit. I mean, it is, it's practical and it's great and yeah, you are speaking my language.

Ben: Lamination is the condom of the paper world.

Daniel: I mean, I've known Nicole for, you know what, nine years now is my almost, I have no idea. Almost

nine years.

Daniel: I'm pretty sure. You just completely flooded her basement.

Ben: I'm glad to know I still have the magic touch.

Nichole: Sorry. He said that. Started with super formality of like, hello Benjamin to Oh, you flooded her basement. Jesus Christ.

Laurel: Our third question. We like to know if there's any kind of, fun story you'd like to share, A fun personal story that might typify the poly experience where you're at.

Ben: So there was a girl who approached me, , her boss, coworker, whatever was, , a friend of mine and she was really interested in Polly and he was trying to be like, well, I have this friend.

Ben: Please talk to him. and, ,

Daniel: he's down at the bar. He's got a podium and a binder. Yeah. So,

Ben: so, no, we're, we're just sitting there and she comes up and she starts asking me all, all of these questions and everything seems totally fine. And then, it hits her all of a sudden that like, oh, maybe this is right for me. Maybe this is what I've been looking for. Mm-hmm. And then she's like, well, if I go and explore this, what about my partner? Because I was like, well, you know, I mean, he may choose to just stick with you, or if you're opening it up, maybe he finds someone else. And she's like, okay. Okay. So he might go on a date too.

Hmm.

Ben: Oh. I don't think this was gonna work for me.

Oh my God. Oh my God.

Nichole: Wow, wow,

Ben: yeah, she realized that, , basically she was very attracted to women and that she would love to have a relationship with a woman at some point, but at this point in her life, she is happy with how, who she is, where she is, and that she just wants to focus on her relationship, and apparently they're now engaged.

Ben: So, I was glad to be able to help her work through something that, uh, otherwise might've caused a problem later, and we avoid the problem and now she's feeling comfortable as a person.

Daniel: Honestly. If you had told that story about a man, I would've been like, what a fucking dick. It's like that one penis policy kind of thing. But coming from a woman, I actually find it kind of refreshing that she was like out there pursuing like, I would like to fuck as many people as I would like and I don't want my partner to be able to.

Daniel: Yeah. Well, no,

Nichole: she didn't even, I don't, I got from the story that she wasn't even thinking like, I get to fuck. He doesn't get to fuck. He wasn't part of the equation.

Nichole: Yeah. She just forgot that she had a part. Yeah.

Daniel: Yep.

Laurel: That's hilarious. Thank goodness you were there, Ben, to remind her I do what I can. Yeah.

Daniel: Thank you so much for jumping on with us, Ben.

Laurel: Yeah, absolutely. It's been a hoot. I really appreciate it.

Laurel: We're gonna come to your fairy land and eat your pies.

Ben: We, you're

Ben: very welcome. You'd love the community. We're very welcome in opening and yeah.

Ben: I'd love to see you guys down here.

Daniel: We'll bring you a poly amateur hour t-shirt for your podium station. I will wear it.

Nichole: Yay. Love it. Love that. Thank you so much, Ben. Really appreciate it.

Daniel: You're very welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Ben. Thank you.

Thank you, Ben.

Am I? Am I

Daniel: beautiful?

No

Daniel: charming.

No.

Nichole: am I just very like single faceted?

Nichole: Because multiple times in this episode, I have referenced spreadsheets and being a business lady as one of my kinks. Well,

Laurel: I mean, to be fair, Neo started it. Okay. Um, and now it's just like where your mind is and Ben finished it and Ben Neo started it and Yeah, that's true.

That is true.

Laurel: Yeah. This is just our business. Sowed. Welcome to the business. Sode.

Laurel: So what's next? It's time for a read alert.

Daniel: So the way that we usually learn about the stewards whom we target with my own poly Idaho and scare them because they're like, how do they know that we're listening? Is there a camera in my home that only poly amateur hour can see from

Laurel: poly cam?

Laurel: Get it on our website@polyamateurhour.com.

Daniel: We're gonna see when you're sexting your boyfriend.

Laurel: Don't worry, we won't get pissed off like your lame husband.

Daniel: No, we're gonna get super excited like your creepy Parasocial podcast host. This is, this is my reality TV now, but, our incredibly in depth and accurate stats on Pod Bean.

Daniel: Tell us once in a while that, ooh, like we just got like five downloads in so-and-so country this week and this week it was Finland. Mm-hmm. For the first time. Like somebody is kind of bingeing bingeing in Finland.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. And, and now Daniel would like to speak directly to you. Oh my God.

Laurel: and what we think we just asked you, what do we think? We just asked them. What

Daniel: Hey, all you finished sluts.

Oh my God.

Daniel: Write to us about polyamory in Finland. We want all the hot sauna gossip.

Nichole: I do want all the hot sauna gossip. Like

Daniel: real bad. Real bad.

Nichole: I have discovered that hearing gossip about people that I do not know from my partners is one of the greatest joys I have in polyamory.

Nichole: I am hearing such good gossip. It's so, oh God, it's so good. It's so good.

Daniel: And then I completely fucking deny you the pleasure of sharing it with me.

Daniel: I just cock block you when you come up and start trying to tell me about the gossip that your partners shared with you about people that you don't know.

Nichole: I'm just not gonna bring it to you anymore. Laurel, guess what? I'm in,

Nichole: I'm

Laurel: here for it.

Daniel: We don't,

Daniel: I don't think we really

Daniel: hit an ending yet. hit. You don't think we hit

Nichole: anything?

Daniel: Mm,

Nichole: you are always the person who decides that we finished. Yeah.

It's lot like sex.