Laurel: what if it was a musical and all of the light buzzing and the Las Vegas traffic and whatever music is being played outside, all came together. , And then we sang the entire episode.

Laurel: Much to Nicole's delight.

Nichole: I thought you were going into like a philosophical direction of like, what if it's all music man, and like this is just the symphony of life.

Laurel: My brother did write a poem when he was a child about music that is like, there's also like a watercolor of a saxophone next to it

Laurel: that's like, sound is, music is noise. Music is, oh, it asks questions. Music, sound. Yeah. It's just like very, yeah. Okay. And then there's some parts where like his teacher wrote in stuff because like it didn't make sense

Daniel: it's like, is sound music in red pen?

Daniel: No.

Laurel: No.

Minus 1.0 shit. All right, Lemme go get my phone.

Nichole: Okay. Speaking of poems, childhood poems. I have some poems from when I was 11. Oh, that my aunt sent me. Oh, I made her like a poetry book. please recite. Okay.

Laurel: I'm excited.

Daniel: I've heard these before and you should be excited. Okay. And afraid.

Laurel: Oh, This is the blurb for the back of your book.

Nichole: This one is called Flowers.

Nichole: Is that a euphemism? with flowers, I can dance, sing, and rejoice silently with flowers. I tell my secrets. Secretly with flowers, I open my magic wings and fly dreamy with flowers. I make wreaths with neatly because water is because water is like fun.

Nichole: If you keep giving it to yourself, you will live.

Daniel: Noted. Wow. Wow. On the second listen through laurel's gaze. I do wonder whether this was about discovering masturbation

Daniel: This one is, is short. It is

Nichole: called trampoline. A trampoline is like your life. Sometimes you're up, sometimes you're down. Sometimes you're really high and sometimes you fall.

Multiple: Sometimes sometimes I fall off life. All of my poems

Nichole: I was like, I'm 11, I'm giving life lessons. Like they were just like,

Daniel: is falling off, the trampoline dying is this, I don't, is this, I don't

Nichole: know. I don't know. I was 11. Depends on if the grass is lava or not.

Daniel: You know, you know what? You know what else is a little bit like a trampoline?

Nichole: Vegas.

Daniel: Yeah,

Nichole: sometimes you're up, sometimes you're down.

Daniel: It's really exhilarating for a while. And then usually, , a head injury or nausea and vomiting occur.



Daniel: Oh, wait, wait, wait.

Nichole: Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour. I'm Laurel,

Daniel: I'm Daniel. I'm Nicole. And today we are recording from our hotel room in the Rio Las Vegas for the Star Trek Las Vegas convention. Being at the Rio is a really special experience. The Rio is like being inside a smoker's lung. the Rio is like watching somebody else play, , a video game that you do not care about. Nothing works in the Rio.

Laurel: as you walk from the elevator down the hallway to our room, each of the sconces on the wall are slightly smashed.

Laurel: Some are flickering.

Nichole: Yeah. I really do think the Rio is a suggestion of a hotel.

Laurel: So we got, upgraded to a crazy suite. , ' on paper, it sounds great. Walk-in to your right is a bar to your left is a dining room. There is a bedroom and a bathroom with a jacuzzi tub, , , but functionally everything is just kind of facing in the wrong direction.

Laurel: So like, you can't talk to anybody if you're like sitting in any of the spaces. Yeah. There's one like tiny TV that is just shoved in a corner.

Daniel: It's facing the windows. The, the television. . Imagine a long crescent shaped room with like four couches all facing The wall. Yeah.

Daniel: At the same time, kind of nostalgic for the Rio. After all, our very first crazy sexy Polly segment in our very first episode was all about going to Star Trek Las Vegas here last year.

Daniel: We got a suite. We packed the luggage full of sex toys, lubes, and condoms. And then we spent three days doing cosplay at a Star Trek convention.

Nichole: And I slept on the fold out. That's gonna turn somebody on.

Daniel: So today, 50 episodes later, we're gonna give you a crazy, sexy poly. 2025.



Laurel: We prepared for months.

Laurel: We had a genius idea, but we didn't know how genius it was gonna be until Chase Masterson called us geniuses for about 30 minutes straight.

Nichole (2): So let us tell the saga, I'm trying to get this genius piece of cosplay to Las Vegas. , For those of you who have seen Star Trek, , deep Space nine, Daniel was a Dabo wheel which is like a space roulette wheel and Laurel and I were a couple of Dabo girls. And we knew that this was going to be a popular cosplay, because it was very interactive. And we decided, let's get this giant Dabo wheel into oversized checked luggage on our flight.

Nichole (2): It'll be fine. It'll be fine. Yeah.

Daniel: So I take it down to the UPS store, and they take way, way too much pride in their work. I'm like, help me pack this up for the flight. We have to check it in oversized luggage. And they're like, we're gonna sandwich it in two large pieces of cardboard.

Daniel: We're gonna do bubble wrap around it. We're going to air compress it, and then we're going to, , put three inches of cardboard on each side. And, , I, I should have tried to dial back their enthusiasm at the moment. I should have been like, Hey, it is just Star Trek.

Speaker: get a life will you people for crying out loud. It's, it's just a TV show.

Daniel: , But I come back and the thing is so large that we cannot get it into my car.

Nichole: So we enlisted somebody. We know who has a truck.

Nichole: They were able to pick it up for us, bring it back to the house. So we're like, all right, we're gonna have to get a big lift to take us to the airport. We ordered the first Lift xl. It doesn't fit in that car. Okay. Oh. , I'm getting a little stressed. So we, I have to re, I have to download the app for Uber and I order an Uber XXL,

Daniel (2): Also Uber XXL the worst of of the Magic Mike sequels,

Daniel (2): in my opinion.

Nichole: Yeah, I agree. I wish Magic Mike had been there because we did not get Magic Mike. We got Dean.

Daniel: Oh, I forgot about Dean. How can you forget about Dean?

Nichole: So Dean, I'm watching on, you know, I'm getting nervous 'cause I'm like, okay, we should really be at the airport by 1230 'cause we do have to check in this oversized luggage and blah, blah, blah.

Nichole: So Dean is coming from Vancouver. We are in Portland. I see him like circle around in Vancouver, just kind of taking his time, finally get on the fucking freeway and then I see him pull into a parking lot that is not anywhere close to our. House. And I'm like, what the fuck is Dean doing? Finally, Dean comes around the corner and drives so slowly down the street and we're waving like, Hey, yeah, come on.

Nichole: We're we're over, we're here. We're here. He flashes his lights and continues to drive so fucking slowly and

Laurel: then

Nichole: overshoots

Laurel: us. Yeah.

Nichole: So that he has to, and then he has to back up,

Laurel: which this man is not like technically equipped to back up in an Uber XXL.

Daniel: he's like, wants to make an introduction too.

Nichole: He's like, I'm Dean.

Daniel: Like, he's like, oh yeah, he just

Nichole: kind of ambles outta the car. He is like, Where are headed? I'm like, the airport, we're supposed to be there right now. Like, I was not, I was not. Nice.

Nichole: So we're trying to get this box into this fucking van. It

Daniel: barely fits.

Nichole: It barely fits.

Daniel: He puts a towel down along the edge to safeguard his car. And the towel that he puts down is just mysteriously wet.

Laurel: Yeah. not damp. it's like someone soaked the entire towel and then rang it out and then put it in the car. Disgusting.

Daniel: And Nicole is getting really stressed out at this point because I'm getting really stressed out.

Daniel: She likes to get to the airport early. She like treats the airport like, uh, like a Star Wars movie release. You get there the night before, you wait in line, get a little tent.

Nichole: I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Nichole: Anyways, we're fucking driving.

Nichole: Fucking Dean is taking his fucking time. Laurel is a saint and sits in the front and, and is the dean whisperer and just talks to Dean Daniel's in the back

Daniel: I'm the Nicole whisperer.

Nichole: Yeah. Just, just, you know, gently, like, grabbing my hand, rubbing my shoulder and going like, Dean is a sign from God for you to relax.

Nichole: Right.

Nichole: We're gonna get there on time. It's totally fine. It's totally fine.

Daniel (2): And that was before the Dean took a turn for the dark. Yeah. So halfway through this trip, encouraged by Laurel's. Incredibly endlessly generous, smiling and nodding I was just

Laurel: curious about how Dean's family was doing.

Laurel: Yeah, His daughter Just moved to Washington. , She has a child of her own, she's single parenting. Really her parents are the only one that can help her make this big move.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Meanwhile, Dean's, sister was homeless for a period of time. , But Dean still doesn't quite understand why homeless people have so much stuff. But he's saying this in the context of like, people, we have so much stuff. I mean, look at the homeless for example, carting around their stuff.

Daniel: Yeah. Some people think of billionaires when they think of Yeah. People with too many possessions, not dean. Dean goes straight to the source of the problem. He also has a solution. Like I think any boomer of a certain gender, there comes a time when all of the sudden they are blessed with the knowledge of how to fix all the world's problems.

Laurel: And Dean realized, well, you know, they're all sleeping under the highways anyway. Why not just put up a big steel containment center, like wall them in with steel, and put up some security cameras. And then once a week, have the fire department come and hose the place out.

Laurel: And you know what? If you left your shit there, that's your fault.

Nichole: Importantly, there was also ventilation included in the contain. Oh yeah, he did. He was like

Laurel: ventilate. He was kind enough to put ventilation into the steel containment system under the highway. Even the poor must breathe

Nichole: even. It, it we're all just listening to it and he dares to ask the question, what do you think of that?

Nichole: Yeah. And we were all just stunned silent because Yeah, I wanted to say

Laurel: it's not a good idea. Dean. Dean, that sounds like cruel and unusual punishment. That sounds horrific.

Daniel: I visualized it a lot like the have a heart rat traps that we had at the farm when I was a kid. There would be kind of metal and there was like a, a little flappy, you know, side that would just close.

Daniel: Oh god.

Nichole: We learned a lot about Dean in 15 minutes.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: We got to the airport on time. We checked in the big oversized box, and of course the flight was delayed.

Nichole: So,

Daniel: then I have the, the joy of watching all the tension slowly. Leave your body, Nicole. It's a delightful thing to just be in close contact with you as you relax at the airport, knowing that everything is going to be okay.

Laurel: We're gonna make it.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: We're gonna get where we're going. Thank you.

Daniel: And we too are going to get where we're going. And today we are on a schedule.

Daniel: , So in just a moment, we're going to be joined by one of our favorite all time guests. I believe this is our first return guest.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah. Yep. We're talking about the genius producer of Greatest Jen and Greatest Trek.

Daniel: Windy, pretty in the flesh.

All right. Should we go get her?

Daniel: go. Where? Where did we leave Wendy? Shit, we forgot to pick her up at the oversized luggage claim.

Laurel: Hi, Wendy. Hi, Wendy. Hello.

Daniel: Hello, Wendy.

Laurel: Hi. We just, we start talking like we never talk.

We're like, oh. Hello. Wow. It's really great to have you on today. Welcome. Welcome to

Wynde: the Suite. Yeah.

Daniel: We're gonna be cosplaying as an episode of Fresh Air Today.

Wynde: Where's David being Cooley?

Daniel: we, uh, we took a little break there to, come and let you in because there's very high security here at the Masquerade Tower in the Rio

Wynde: Rio's locked down.

Laurel: I have never seen, I've never seen hospitality staffs so apathetic to just everything except for making sure you take off your costume when you're in the casino.

Daniel: Oh yeah. Yes. 'cause, 'cause of my danger blades.

Laurel: I don't think it's the blades. I think it was your, uh, bulbus head.

Daniel: Well, oh, excuse me.

Daniel: Okay. I thought we were talking about the costume, but Jesus, I think it's cute. Oh wait, are you talking about the above the belt or below the belt, Chris?

Daniel: So we're recording in the Rio. They know that we've talked about the jacuzzis. We're not recording in one of the jacuzzis. Yet. Mm-hmm. But we did get Wendy and Wendy's partner Fested into our bedroom,

Wynde: Hey, hey.

Daniel (2): In a round of cushions on the floor we're craning our heads speaking to the mic.

Daniel (2): We've got the air conditioning turned off , because background noise mm-hmm.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: The temperature is gradually rising. it's just a matter of time before we all start stripping off clothing. Yeah.

Laurel: But we are, we are good hosts because we gave Fested the bed and windy the couch, so. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: I mean, were you questioning whether or not we were good hosts? You're great hosts. It's not our fault that this room is what it is.

Daniel: You have hit upon Nicole's greatest fear that she's not a good host.

Nichole: Yes, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. Laurel, I'm sorry. You just triggered Nicole.

Laurel: You're wonderful hostess who, what are Metamours for? If not to bring up your greatest insecurities,

Wynde: keep you on your toes. Yep.

Laurel: Should we get to the main event?

Daniel: Should we ask our question of the day? Is Star Trek Poly

Nichole: Star Trem?

Nichole (2): All right, so for this edition of. Is Star Trek poll. We watched Star Trek Deep Space Nine . I actually don't remember. Did anybody

Daniel: put the notes?

Nichole: Kymera?

Wynde: Season seven, episode 14.

Laurel: Thank you. Significantly less problematic than the last episode that we did with Wendy. Yeah. Wendy,

Daniel: So, O'Brien and Odo, one of my favorite emo bands are going somewhere in a shuttle.

Daniel: They're coming

Laurel: home from a conference.

Daniel: when all of a sudden there's like a cute little space whale kind of thing, wiggling around behind the shuttle comes up, kind of disappears and goes through the vents, suspense plops out.

Daniel: Oh, whoa. It's a changeling plops out.

Wynde: He called himself a metamorph very similar meta. Yeah. That was the first

Nichole: one. I was like,

Wynde: metamorph.

Laurel: And then he calls O'Brien a mono morph.

Nichole: Yes.

Nichole: And that was the other vocabulary word that was like interesting. Yeah.

Daniel: So if you have an on, again, off again relationship with somebody is their partner, your. Metamorph. Right? Because they keep morphing between Uhhuh being your meta or not.

Daniel: They have, they have trouble holding their shape as a metamor. Yeah. Yeah.

Wynde: Relationships can be that way. Sometimes fluid, like a changeling

Daniel: So let's probably talk a little bit about like foundationally what a changeling is. Mm-hmm. Right? So these are beings that can change shape. , Into pretty much anything, although if you don't grow up on the Changeling home world, you have a hard time with faces, and so you have to wear terrible makeup all the time.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Um, and naturally when they're all together, they exist in something called the Great Link, which is basically like a poly with really bad boundaries. This is like, it, it's like a totally codependent poly,

Nichole: right?

Laurel: They share a consciousness, they share a thought, um, and they share one ooey, gooey body, what did I say, Charlie?

Laurel: Oh,

Nichole: is that you Charlie?

Nichole (2): So, they discover that the flop out is a changeling the flop out

Laurel: and now, and they're, they immediately set up tension we're suspicious of change liens who aren't odo because they're at war currently mm-hmm.

Laurel: With essentially the entire species, and their home planet. but not only is O'Brien suspicious of the change lien for that reason, the change lien is suspicious of O'Brien

clip: I will allow myself to be taken prisoner to show my good faith, but only if you vouch for my safety.

clip: I do not trust humanoids.

Daniel: , This change lien Absolutely. Has like no straight cis men on the profile, right.

Daniel: Like, yeah. Don't even talk to me.

Wynde: Goo people only. Yes.

Daniel: He's goo people. He's goop people.

Daniel: Ah.

Wynde: But he is one of the original hundred, which I think is a fun Yes. It's, it's a identity aspect that he shares with Odo. Yes. Which is meaningful to both of them. And in a way, I feel like that's partially a metaphor for just identity that's different from the mainstream and maybe niche in a niche.

Wynde: In a niche kind of identity. Yes. Yes. Can you explain what the, the 100 are? Yeah. The 100 were the changelings that were spread all throughout the galaxy to explore cultures and alien species and then bring that knowledge back to the dominion.

Laurel: And they were sent out , without knowledge and consciousness that they are part of this species and home planet.

Laurel: So they're kind of floating out in the world, wondering if they're alone mm-hmm. Or not.

Wynde: Mm-hmm. And looking for each other. Looking for connection to, yes.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: So we're back on DS nine Odo takes loss back to his quarters and, , there's like a jungle gym. There for Changelings Change, change, jungle, jungle Gym.

Daniel: it's like, you haven't been using this lately. It's cold.

Nichole: Yeah. So immediately like law starts judging Odo,

clip: We are changelings. We can be like them when we choose. I choose to be like them as little as possible. That's where we differ.

Nichole: odo has a framed photo of Kira, his girlfriend, , just sitting on a desk, which I think is like a DS nine,

Daniel: like press photo

Nichole: does look like that, doesn't it? Exactly. and he's like, oh, who's this? And Odo was like, Kira, I love her. ,

Daniel: And he's like, I had a beard once. Oh, excuse me. I had a mate once.

Nichole: And he talks about how they couldn't have children and so ultimately it just wasn't going to work and was like, oh, yeah, yeah. We ha we haven't talked about that. We're not there yet., And again, loss is like immediately judgmental mm-hmm. loss.

Wynde: does some ex exhibition. Ex, what's the word I'm looking for? Exposition. Exposition. Thank you. Not ex not exhibition lost to some exes.

Where is your mind at Wendy? Sorry, I had my tits out yesterday.

Wynde: I'm thinking about taking more clothes off. So Odd. Lost does some exposition about the fact that he has been awake for longer.

Multiple: Mm-hmm.

Wynde: Insinuating that like, oh, you'll learn.

Laurel: Yeah. And he's essentially like, oh, no wonder you're still trying so hard to fit in. Right. Like, I was like you when I was your age. Mm-hmm.

Wynde: And that's part of the condescension, that kind of

Daniel: mm-hmm. Permeates. Yes. But even before, Odo seems embarrassed about banging solids. Right. Like he is like,

clip: These are my quarters. I'll be staying. Somewhere else.

Laurel: yeah. He doesn't, yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Daniel: Even this early in the episode, the message I'm getting is Odo is queer can only have queer sex, , so far with queer partners, which are other change links. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: He introduces loss to the great link or linking in general as a practice because hey, let me show you something.

Nichole: Yeah. What, what, what, what, what, what, what? No linking.

clip: Our people spend most of their time in the link. The link, it involves a melding into one emerging of. Thought and form, idea and sensation. It's difficult to explain.

clip: Then don't surely, of course,

Nichole: , They do the do

Wynde: the goo.

Wynde: They go gooey and they go

Daniel: goo. And it is clear, even in this scene before it's discussed a little later, that there is something that is sexual adjacent about the link, right? Mm-hmm. The look in their eyes when they are gooing together, and then afterwards you're like, oh my God, that

Wynde: was amazing.

Daniel: It's like his mind is blown.

Daniel: Can we do it again? Can we do it again now?

Laurel: there's part of this, and I mentioned while we were watching it again this morning, where laws is really like proselytizing, his worldview .

Laurel: , He's also pretty like pushy and like very holier than thou about it. I was like, oh, this is the guy that read sex at Dawn and now is like telling all of the like, monogamous people in their lives like no humans were not built for monogamy.

clip: I prefer the so-called primitive life forms. They exist as they were meant to by following. Yeah, their instincts.

Laurel: And you're doing life wrong. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so you need to do life. Like, I do life. It's the only way to be free.

Daniel: Shout out to Michelle High's first boyfriend.

Wynde: Yeah, I definitely picked up on that too. Like, that type of polyamorous person who's like the polyamorous police out there and the Reddit streets or whatever.

Laurel: Yeah. I like the tension that it creates throughout the episode because he's very un unlikeable in a lot of ways, so Odo is kind of like always struggling against the like, well I am drawn to this.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: But also this guy's a dick. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And like is trying to like get me to like leave the people I know and

Daniel: love. Can we talk a little bit about Kira's first reaction?

Daniel: So, major Kira Yes. Is Odos girlfriend. Mm-hmm. His solid, solid girlfriend, mono morph girlfriend. And so she doesn't actually enter into this episode until Odo has already linked. With laws. Mm-hmm. She comes into his little security office 'cause he's a cop, sorry guys.

Daniel: And he's all in like post acquittal glow still. Like, he's just got , a freshly linked face. And, , she's like, oh, you seem happy. He's like, ,

clip: We linked. I see. There's nothing to worry about. The link is part of what we are. It comes as naturally to us as talking does to humanoids. It's a little more personal than, than talking, isn't it?

Daniel: It's a

Wynde: disclosure, right? Mm-hmm. It's like a

Daniel: disclosure conversation.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually like, really love that scene.

Laurel: Yeah. Because at first it does feel like that conversation with your partner where it's like, how was your date? And like, you're excited because like this person has a special connection to them. And, and for odo and laws, it's their shared heritage and like species.

Laurel: Like Daniel, when you went out with that woman who was really into cars. Oh yeah. So you were like excited to like, talk cars and like go to an event that like, I would have no particular interest in going to you with.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. And probably Nicole doesn't, I don't know. Correct. And so there's like that exciting element, but then there's the like, oh yeah. And then we fucked on the first date. And that moment, like you see on Kira's face of like trying to be like open and supportive. Mm-hmm. And like, oh, okay. But like, that's

Daniel: a lot.

Daniel: And immediately wanting to pull him into a kitchen table situation. So it's immediately Yeah. When

Wynde: can I meet him? Which is kind of a lovely reaction. Yeah. I mean, I'm on team kitchen table, so

Wynde: But there were so many relatable moments, like this moment where odo takes laws to meet the rest of the molecule.

Wynde: And loss totally steps in it. I feel like that is also a thing. Yeah. People have like, it's so relatable. Yes. It's so relatable.

Nichole: But loss doesn't know that he's stepping in it.

Daniel: Is laws on the spectrum. Like the way that he like interacts with the rest of the molecule is like somebody who is not able to kind of gauge the social appropriateness of

Nichole: it.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. He can't see Esri's face, like her eyes rolling out of her head and he takes everything literally too. Mm-hmm. Like when Oto is like, oh, your social calendar is not gonna be overcrowded after this. He's like, oh, good.

Multiple: Like, that is true,

Laurel: that is true,

Laurel: what is also interesting about this is like a of a reverse cowboy cowgirl situation. Totally.

Wynde: There's cow poking that's about to happen because loss is basically like to odo, Hey, your friends are weird.

Wynde: They're all solid. Why don't you come with me and we'll go explore the galaxy and be changelings together and we can link all the time. Yeah.

Laurel: Let's blow this Popsicle stand. Yeah. Like what

Wynde: are you still doing here? You know? Yeah. You're just emulating solids and

Daniel: And it's basically like we can start our own poly coole.

Daniel: Yes. Yeah. We just need to behind a few more changelings.

Wynde: Yeah. Cow poking. Again, it's one of those very relatable things in polyamory. I mean, I don't know if this is something you've experienced in like even in my short amount of time practicing polyamory, there have been some interesting situations with that. Like people who. Say that they're interested in polyamory or they're open to it or whatever.

Wynde: But then once things progress, they have extremely mono normative expectations. I guess like going back on what you say that you're okay with is, is like such a common thing, I feel like,

Wynde: trying to pull people away into different lifestyles, based on, on what one person wants out of relationship.

Laurel: I feel like the lesson learned in sort of my experience with, , mono poly cowboying or cow girling is like loving someone is not enough to like, change their values in terms of , like what relationship modality they, they practice.

Laurel: trying to conform to a modality that doesn't fit you. can be really painful.

Multiple: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: And then you have the situation where Odo is like, well, I'm so in love and committed to Kira, that I'm gonna stay in this modality,

Laurel: , even though my true nature might be more aligned with loss,

Daniel: except that Kira seems much more open to the idea of a molecule with laws. Like my vibe from her is not like, you can't have this at all.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah.

Daniel: That's why I think that , the identity difference, like, there's definitely a lot of poly stuff, but there's so much queer stuff because it's like laws is saying like, why do you still want like straight sex?

Daniel: Right.

Laurel: So laws is saying you are gay and Oto iss like, no, I'm bi.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: And Kira is like, that's cool. You're bi.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. 'cause at one point, you know, Odo tells Kira that like, yeah, laws invited me, you know, to go with him At first, Kira's like, well, what did he say when you said no?

Nichole: And then Odo doesn't say anything. She's like, you said no. Right? And he's like, I didn't exactly say no. And she just kind of was like, oh, okay. I can't offer what he can offer, but I can offer love essentially. Mm-hmm. You know? ,

Daniel: And Odo is going into a full on identity crisis at this time.

Daniel: Yeah. She's like, was that even the real you that I've been with? And he's like, no. No. the other thing that I feel like is interesting in the meat of this episode, is all of the like discomfort with gay PDA that is Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because there's all this stuff with like laws is like, why can't we fuck on the promenade?

clip: enough Talk link with me here. Why not?

Multiple: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: And odo is like, it makes the straits uncomfortable.

Wynde: Like,

clip: Who wants to see somebody turn into goo?

Wynde: yeah. And in the more benign example, it was like, odo iss also defending laws for being fog uhhuh. What does it look like? He's being, he's being fogged shut up about it. You know? Yeah. He's not hurting anyone.

clip: Well, can't he be fog somewhere else? Or at night when nobody's around,

Wynde: and so there's this , .

Wynde: Tension between , almost like, don't be so prideful. Like I think even Cork says like,

clip: This is no time for a Changeling Pride demonstration on the promenade.

Wynde: there's this tension between like, no, we, we should be who we are.

Wynde: No, you have to, you know, you have to hide. It's like so many interesting concepts that are layered onto Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: So we mentioned that laws takes the form of fog on the promenade

Nichole: Odo hears a commotion outside and walks out and sees all the fog. And you see like children like playing. And then I was like, that's so uncomfortable to face his body.

Nichole: Um,

Daniel: they're like breathing

Nichole: him. Yeah. Yeah. And so, , eventually Odo was like, laws, you gotta like, come on, let's go, , and two Klingons are on the prom. I. I pumped my arms back and forth like I am. The Klingons don't cling on, like two Clingons are coming down the promenade.

Daniel: Um, , I don't think I have ever seen a Klingon do anything close to this.

Daniel: What what Nicole is doing is like a Betty Boop cartoon character, just like pumping their arms like Popeye when he's walking down the boardwalk or something.

Nichole: I don't know. I just always think of their shoulders. Like they have such broad shoulders. They're

Daniel: muscling. Yeah, yeah. Try, try, try it again. More lumbering.

Daniel: They're coming down the

Nichole: pro. Nobody can see this, but just imagine they're coming down the pro. I not, so they're coming down the promenade and they see, they see laws, transform into, his humanoid self. And they're like, Hey, you, you, and they get mad at him, right?

Laurel: Yeah. Like, because he is a change lane and change lanes have killed a lot of clingons in the war.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah.

Daniel: He's like, how dare you become fog in my presence.

Nichole: Yeah. Don't

Daniel: change in front of me.

Nichole: Yeah. , And so , the fight escalates and one of the Klingons Brandishes a, a dagger,

Laurel: He stabs laws. , but it doesn't hurt laws 'cause he's a changeling.

Nichole: Yeah. So it just kind of like goes right through him. Yeah. And Odo is holding the guy like, Hey, you can't do that. And then laws transforms one of his limbs into a dagger and just stabs the other one.

Daniel: But not before he drops a, , crocodile Dundee zinger.

Daniel: When he changes his arms into the sword, he is like,

clip: Mine's bigger.

Daniel: yeah.

Multiple: Oh God, I forgot about that.

Wynde: So now laws is in trouble.

Wynde: Yeah, he gets arrested. And who breaks him out? Kira. And this was such a turn. I did not remember this. And I was like, why is she doing that? And then the reason is so interesting and beautiful. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She's like,

Daniel: Colonel Compersion in this episode

Multiple: I wanna make a t-shirt out that

Nichole: so Kira, , goes to the brig . And asks the, . Staff person. It's so hot in here. I don't know, military, like, um, ask the guard the guard to leave. And she walks, you know, she walks up to the, the holding cell and she just presses the button and the force field comes down and loss is like, what?

Nichole: And she's like,

clip: Go to the third planet in the Corrales system, you'll find an orbital tether running down to an abandoned mining complex. I'll tell Otto to meet you there. Why

clip: I love him.

Nichole: scene, scene.

Laurel: Yeah. Essentially Kira's like, I love Odo so much, I'm gonna set him free. I can see that he has this underlying desire to explore this part of himself and I cannot hold him back from that.

Daniel: So Captain Cisco calls everybody together in his like, so I guess the Changeling escaped

Laurel: not looking at you two. Kira and Oto are just standing there before him. Like, I dunno what you're talking about.

Daniel: And Otto's

Laurel: being kinda like a

Daniel: cocky asshole about the whole thing. Like Yeah. '

Laurel: cause he doesn't know that Kira Yeah.

Laurel: Helped him yet. So I think he's sort of like, well you thought you could contain a changeling.

Daniel: Yeah. You can't hold gender fluid with bars or force fields.

Nichole: so Kira tells Oto like, I broke him out, and he's waiting for you on this planet and you need to go to him.

Nichole: Otto goes to the planet and finds laws, , in the mine shaft,

Nichole: and so, you know, a loss pops out from behind a corner and is like, I knew you'd come. Otto tells him like, I came to say goodbye. I can't come with you. And he's like. But we

Daniel: could, we could be goo do crime. Okay. I liked it. I liked that one..

Be go do crime. Do crime. Oh no. Do

Wynde: I don't know where this is going.

Nichole: Oh, Daniel does, my God. He'll put a beat behind it. Congratulations.

Laurel: Yeah. And then he returns to Kira and she's like, I thought that was the last time I was gonna see you. And he's like, no, I love you.

Daniel: She says,

clip: If I ever made you feel that you couldn't be yourself with me, I'm sorry.

clip: I wanna know you where you really are.

Daniel: Goo all

Laurel: over her. Yeah. And then I'm like, what Part of the metaphor is this is Kira.

Laurel: Like, like I wanna have gay sex with you. This is a story about Kira

Daniel: learning to peg him.

Nichole: Yes, I knew that. I knew that's what you were gonna say. Yes. Yes. Yep.

Daniel: Sorry, P clap. Too loud.

Wynde: It's a sweet moment. It's a sweet moment.

Daniel: Yeah. I mean, if, if you could, if you can peg a mist She learns

Nichole: to peg him and also feels pleasure at doing it. Mm-hmm. She loves it. It says later the, the episode closes on her face, basically in bliss.

Daniel: Enveloped in odo light. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Ecstasy.

Nichole: Yep.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Radiant goo.

Nichole: And that's the end of the episode. Yeah.

Daniel: Well,

Nichole: wow.

Daniel: I guess this is the time when we should ask ourselves and the universe is this Polly?

Laurel: I think it is like, there were so many moments that like, I actually very strongly identified with,

Laurel: the disclosure moment, the meeting the metamours or like other partner, like, there's just so many pieces in it that felt so relatable and real from a poly context.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. I think the most Polly part for me was Kira saying, I love him so much, I can let him go. Mm. Like I identified with that a lot. Yeah. And she's seen like even praying at her altar of like, please just let him find who he is. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I think that's, that's real love. And, and in a poly sense, it's like,, I, I love this person who loves other people. Mm-hmm. And I want them to be their full expression of themselves.

Daniel: So are, are you a Yes.

Nichole: Oh yeah. I'm a yes.

Daniel: I'm gonna say yes too, primarily for Keira again, but for a different moment mm-hmm. Of Kera, like that initial disclosure mm-hmm. Of like Odo having had Goose X with, uh, not to be confused with goose sex. Please don't. and one where she's like, yeah, come on.

Daniel: That was sex. It's sex. Yeah. Queer sex is sex. And then two of her being like, so when can I meet him? Like, it made me pause and wonder whether somebody connected in the writing of this Yeah.

Daniel: Had some experience with non-monogamy mm-hmm. Because it was so much like a open relationship kitchen table expression. Mm-hmm. So I'm gonna say yes. Alright.

Wynde: Yeah. I think it is poly in the sense that it's easy for us to see polyamory experiences in it. Mm-hmm. I don't think the episode is trying to talk about polyamory.

Wynde: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think it just is kind, it kind of is in Yeah. In the nuances. And I, I don't know that someone who hasn't practiced polyamory would see any of that in it. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think it's only visible to. The people who have had those types of experiences. , , So I think it is poly. I think it's maybe not trying to be poly, but it is poly. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: Do you think the queer subtext is intentional?

Wynde: I think that DS nine creatives who were responsible for this, didn't expect us to feel that linking is sex.

Wynde: I think it was more of like,

Laurel (2): acid

Laurel (2): Tripping on the plyo with somebody.

Wynde: Yeah.

Laurel: Anyways, anyways,

Laurel: star Trek is decidedly Polly, whether it's trying to be or not.

Daniel: Yeah. I don't know if I tried to be.

Daniel: It just happened, you know, I'm like Star Trek and Prince.

Multiple: Oh God.

Laurel: Alright buddy.

Daniel: Shall we move along home?

Laurel: Yes. Yes.

Daniel: Poly Amateur Hour. This week is filmed in front of a live studio, audience of one

Daniel: we have directly behind us on the bed, fested, AKA Jake, canonical, and foundational friend of DeSoto for the greatest. Jen. And a friend of DeSoto is of course a fan of, greatest Jen.

Laurel: Also, canonical partner of Wendy,

Daniel: which was an amazing, like weird plot twist for me. I'm like, wait, canonical FOD Fested also partners with Windy Pretty. Also,

Laurel: Also hand me Gold Press Latin right now on the floor of the con what's happening. So

Nichole: that's how we met.

Jake: You saw my ice linear chips. Yes. And I was like,

Nichole: and then you're

Jake: like,

Nichole: wait,

Jake: are you an

Daniel: FOD?

Jake: And, and then it clicked in my mind and I'm like, wait, you're poly amateur hour.

Daniel: we were so delighted because I believe this is the first time anybody has ever recognized us in any way or said, Hey, aren't you poly amateur?

Daniel: Those words have never been spoken by any human being or Star Trek alien in the history of the

Jake: universe. I'm so glad to pop that cherry.

Multiple: Yes. Thank you. Thank you. We're glad it was, you

Daniel: Now for the episode, up until this point, you've been just, you know, sitting over there. , You know, with the, with the gag and the blindfold on, you know, to prevent you from participating until it was

Jake: time.

Jake: I mean, that's my requirement when I'm in the bed. You did not push that on me. I

Daniel: know. I was astounded that you found your way up to the masquerade tower like that, and you've been in cosplay the entire time in a gimp suit has been really, really impressive.

Jake: Pass play.

Daniel: Yeah. Big air quotes.

Jake: It's hot in here, in that, you know.

Nichole: We've brought you here today because we have a segment called My Own Poly Idaho



Nichole: And this is one of my favorite segments because we reach out to stewards, or stewards, reach out to us from other parts of, , the world and tell us about their poly experience outside of our very insular bubble like Portland, Oregon experience.

Nichole: and so. We know that you are not from Portland.

Jake: I'm not. I have been to Portland, but I'm not from there.

Nichole: Why didn't you

Laurel: say hello?

Jake: I recognized you, but I was, it's just a little starstruck.

Nichole: So can you share with us where you're from?

Jake: I live in Madison, Wisconsin. , And I've lived in Wisconsin most of my life. Hmm hmm.

Nichole: can you share with us a little bit about your poly journey?

Jake: Yeah. So, uh, about a decade ago I got divorced out of a monogamous straight relationship.

Nichole: High five Laurel too. Yeah.

Jake: , And there were a lot of things that I had kind of known or maybe didn't have the words for, but I, I knew about myself, you know, this was before I had come out as pan and as gender fluid.

Jake: Throughout that marriage and throughout previous relationships, I was getting crushes on other people and being like, no, this is wrong. Mm-hmm. You know, so I was like trying to block it outta my head and it was definitely causing rifts in, in the marriage and.

Jake: I, I never acted upon them because, you know, in the mono normative world, I was like, this is wrong. Yes. But in the same way that since I was a lot younger, I was like, this is wrong.

Jake: That I think I'm attracted to men. Mm-hmm. This is wrong. That. I have the desire and like the feelings that I'm like, I want to wear clothing that isn't traditional mm-hmm. For me to wear. And it, like, all of those things I think worked together. Like I was always told this was wrong, and then it took a long time for me to be like, no, no, I don't think so.

Jake: I don't think that's wrong. I think there's far more to this there. And, discovery of the terminology, I think really helped.

Nichole: Yeah.

Jake: I met someone, uh, a friends partner, , , she had approached my friend was like, Hey, so Jake, um. I, I am interested there. Hmm. . And so we started dating and that was kind of my first foray into the, the poly world, , I went on a few dates during that time she started, she was dating some other people. , And then, , after a bit I ended up moving to England.

Jake: And I didn't have much luck that, you know, I, I never stopped being poly. Was having bad luck in practicing it.

Nichole: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jake: , But I, I moved back to the US and I immediately had much better luck.

Jake: And I started dating a few people. , and then pandemic hit. Yeah. And things, uh, things got a lot harder. And I ended up in a situation that I didn't expect I'd ever be again.

Jake: And I was, I had a live-in partner because, , she was having a very difficult time, with, her living situation. She had lost her job during pandemic, i'm like, I have spare rooms in my house also. People around will help with my mental health as everyone's locked down.

Multiple: Yes. Yeah. For real.

Jake: So I, kind of went, solo, live-in partner for a little over a year,

Daniel: being in that situation, it's, it's hard because you, you really could only get one strain of COVID.

Jake: Right.

Jake: And, uh, yeah, the world opened up I had mixed luck in between that and, STLV two years ago, , where I finally got to meet Wendy in person. And, eventually we started dating and it was wonderful, you know, she was already in a relationship and it was like, immediately it was like, yeah, I'm back to poly and this feels good, feels great.

Jake: And it, it continued to evolve and I gained a few more partners over time. , and one of those partners, , is part of , the, the largest poly huel I think I've ever heard of. Mm-hmm. It, it branches so far beyond what I even know.

Jake: Like, I, I hear rumors of my partners, partners, partners, partners, partners. And I'm like, I don't even, I, this is a web and there is a lot of, , cross dating mm-hmm. And things so like, you know, there might be a hexagon in one spot where it all loops back around of people dating each other.

Daniel: Does it have a name like the great length.

Jake: Uh, we're gonna, we're gonna call it the great link now, right? Yes.

Daniel: So this reminds me as we're getting into the world encompassing molecule. We better, we better get hyperlocal again, And ask you the first of our, my own poly Idaho questions.

Daniel: What is unique about being poly where you're at?

Jake: It's, it's hard to say what is unique, , the Madison area is where the vast majority of my poly experience is. But, , in my specific case, you know, this, this poly Q that I've joined, uh, that's all basically all local. , They, there's a lot of overlap between being poly, being queer, being, , into kink.

Jake: as far as this poly could goes, there's very few people that aren't all three of those. Mm-hmm. , And there are, there are definitely a fair number of just straight people in there, but there are so, like, queer coded. Mm-hmm. I don't know. They are so supportive. And you know what, like, it's, it's absolutely lovely

Nichole: So are there any medicine specific resources for Poly?

Jake: Um, there. There are a good number there, like in different ways. So the, you know, there's always the group chats and there are a lot of different, like, group chats of group chats.

Jake: Of group chats. Like there is one that I know of well that is like, the poly group chat for sharing cute animal photos.

Nichole: And

Jake: like, there's another one that is about like, Hey, I bought such and such. It didn't quite work for me. Would anyone like it? You know, Hey, hey partner, I think your partner would look amazing in this.

Jake: Mm-hmm. And there's that.

Daniel: I love that the, the first two resources for you that come to mind are one. The very important resource and limited resource of cute animal photos for the poly community. And two like beanbag chairs and clogs, you know?

Jake: Exactly. Um,

Daniel: beanbag chairs

Wynde: and clogs.

Daniel: Is that what you get from buy Nothing?

Daniel: This is what I imagine is on a poly buy nothing form specifically.

Jake: That's about 80%. Um, I, as far as other resources go one of the members of the Poly is actually a relational therapist all about Poly.

Nichole: Oh, cool. Oh, wow. Like that

Jake: is, that is her like entire career.

Jake: And she worked towards it and is part of a, a group of therapists that do like poly counseling and are very familiar with how the poly world works, so Oh, nice. In that sense of, of a resource. Absolutely. It exists and it's actually part of the poly hole. This, well,

Daniel: that's nice. Are you saying you're banging your therapist?

Daniel: I'm not, no. Are you banging somebody who's banging your therapist?

Jake: No. It's my former So, uh, there's a bit of a moratorium on us doing anything. Yes. But we are list three away in the poly.

Daniel: Nice.

Nichole: So, do you have any stories that exemplify being Polly in Madison, Wisconsin?

Jake: Yeah. Not long after I joined that poly keel, there was a get together, , my partner's partner and his wife were like, yeah, we're gonna invite a bunch of people over.

Jake: And it, you know, it was a good chunk of the molecule that I know. But we know we got probably 30 or 40 people in there in their house, and it was just a great social time.

Jake: You know, we had dinner and there was lots of wine being passed around and just sitting down and talking and just connecting. It was just a wonderful community and everyone just gets along so well. Oh, I love that. It was lovely.

Nichole: I'm so impressed by that number. 30 to 40 people. I mean, I can't, we start, or Laurel started like a pedi and a Poe.

Nichole: Yeah. Know, I've had

Laurel: several maps on the

Nichole: Yes. The whiteboard in my kitchen. Yeah. But I don't know that our Poe extends that far. I don't think so. Like, yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: It expands, it retracts, it's a cosmic anomaly or a space butthole, as they say on greatest gen.

Laurel: It's mostly me and my roommate. Oh my God. I,

Jake: I have a slight fear right now that I'm like, maybe I'm misremembering.

Jake: How many people were there? I'm like, It's hard to say. When we were all on one floor of a house. Yeah. Oh, we'll just go with whatever. I It was a sizable number of people.

Laurel: It's Canon. It's Canon for the podcast now. So yeah. The truth is irrelevant. There

Jake: were 30, 4300. No one knows. It's my

Laurel: 300 person. Madison, Wisconsin Poly Fuel. It's a new

Nichole: version of 300.

Jake: This is Poly. Yeah.

Daniel: I gotta say I'm a little disappointed that there's no cheese at all involved in your exemplifying. Madison story.

Nichole: Oh, I'm sure somebody in the poly ICU is a cheesemonger.

Jake: There's there's definitely drama. There have definitely been, uh, I, there have definitely been people that joined the Poly keel dating one person, and then they're like, yeah, that's probably not, not the greatest.

Jake: There are,

Daniel: So this time I was, the laws being overly literal and you are the person assuming that I'm not talking about literal cheese, it being Wisconsin.

Jake: So I, I absolutely love cheese and the vast majority of the poly loves cheese. My, I have a partner who does not love cheese, but she is wonderful with wine.

Daniel: Oh, speaking of wine.

Multiple: Yes. Were you just trying to get this to connect back to wine?

Daniel: It was completely accidental. I'm assuming that, , Jake , has the grand master plan here, and that this was all intentional, navigating back to wine, long orbit

Jake: is, I mean, you, you told me to do that at the start

Daniel: with, with my knowing gaze with my

Jake: eyes.

Jake: I mean, the gaze know all.

Daniel: It's true. This is true. , So this is a very special episode for many reasons. One. It is our 50th episode of all time,

Nichole: woo.

Daniel: 50th

Nichole: of

Daniel: all time.

Daniel: We don't do seasons here. It's all one big fucking season, man.

Daniel: Yes. this is pretty much at the one year mark because our very first episode, our crazy sexy Polly, as we said, was about going to Las Vegas Three.

Daniel: What's three? We

Laurel: finally hit

Daniel: all 50 states. Oh, that's the one that I forgot about. That's the big deal.

Laurel: He's so excited. Look at him.

Daniel: We have now at least one download in every state of the Union. Little sad that we haven't gotten Puerto Rico yet, but

hey,

Daniel: I thought that this is a good time to celebrate and therefore we have a bottle of champagne and a can of, ginger ale for Nicole.

Nichole: Thank you.

Laurel: Yay. Are you

Daniel: guys ready to pop a cork on mic? Yeah.

Laurel: Pop a cork on mic. Can I turn the AC cork on or Cork? Cork. Cork. Cork Cork.

Daniel: For the convivial part of the episode, we're just gonna turn the AC back on and you're just gonna have a bunch of background noise 'cause fuck it.

Daniel: Woo

Nichole: woo. Yes, please cut loose. Please, please, please do

Daniel: it. Do it.

Nichole: You want me to

Laurel: roll

Jake: out this, this room is just roll out chock full of hot people. Yeah,

Laurel: All right. My tits are sweating so much. yes. Mm-hmm. I need to go wipe my under boob down.