Nichole: Was that a thing that you guys did growing up collect stickers?

Laurel: Yes. Did you ever stick them anywhere? I was pen pals with my best friend, so we would send each other letters and I would carefully choose stickers to put on the letters that I sent her.

Song: Aw.

Laurel: But some of them were like too precious to put on anything. Yes. Yeah.

Daniel: You guys wanna just get really into sticker culture. Is this too edgy for us?

Laurel: Is that a thing? Yes. I was in it for a minute, but there's a lot of drama.

Daniel: Weren't we all in it as children? It was the cult of stickers. No, no, no.

Laurel: There's like graph sticker community. Oh, right. Yeah.

Daniel: Is it related to button people?

Laurel: Mm. Sort of a little bit, remind me what the drama was. Oh, there were two artists like mad at each other and kept accusing the other one of like capping their art, which is like putting your art over their art.

Laurel: Ooh. And so there was like big beef and like just kept like escalating it and like making social media posts about it.

Laurel: You know, calling each other names.

Laurel: And were there teams? Yes. And there still are. Like They put up a lot of their work in my neighborhood. , And you can see like people then attacking the work. What? Yeah. It's bat shit.

Nichole: You guys, these are stickers. Yes.

Daniel: Is this what led to the, uh. The great naked bike ride schism of 2024. This is the, this is

Laurel: the root?

Laurel: Speaking

Nichole: of Yeah, there is a naked moonwalk.

Nichole: Oh, to protest deforestation. Um, oh. It starts at the bottom. Of one of the trails in Forest Park, and it's like everybody walks together and then they shed their clothing at some point, and they're all led by this like giant light up moon.

Daniel: Oh, I thought that you were talking about like in the Michael Jackson sense, I was like, do

Nichole: you know what fair I said that so casually like, yeah, there's a naked moonwalk. I was thinking

Laurel: of it in the obvious witchy sense and Daniel's like, oh, we're

Daniel: gonna be dancing. The witchy sense is the obvious sense of moonwalk.

Daniel: I'm like, I'm the first. I'm like First Neil Armstrong, second Michael Jackson.

Laurel: Okay. I think, I think you should create a schism. A moonwalk schism, and, Show up at the protest, but then have a sign that says Moonwalkers. And then there's just like an illustration of, black shoes and white socks, Uhhuh Uhhuh doing in the like, moonwalk position.

Laurel: Uhhuh. And you say Moonwalks this way, and then you just branch off.

Daniel: You guys. You guys don't make me try and lure naked people off into the woods under a Michael Jackson theme. Mm.

Laurel: Well you can, you don't have to lure them in, like Yeah.

Laurel: You're the one who keeps using the word lore, like, I'm sorry. It's fishing culture. Daniel comes from a long line of longshoremen. Yeah. A long line of short shaman.

Daniel: I actually really take issue with that. We, we prefer the term long short men.

Laurel: Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour.

Nichole: Sorry. I dunno why that delighted me so much. I'm Nicole,

Daniel: I'm Daniel.

Laurel: And I'm Laurel.

Daniel: I am just making noises now. Okay. I thought the rest of the episode could just be abstract. This is how you start your Michael Jackson walk.

Laurel: Oh my God. Oh

Nichole: God. I took a sip at the wrong

Laurel: time. I'm sorry. Or was it the right, you sounded like a bird. Well, it's like a nature protest thing.

Laurel: Michael Jack. I mean, that was where his call came from. That's, yeah. It was a call to defend our forests

Daniel: as he gradually molted.

Laurel: So we need to pick a date and a name for

Daniel: our wedding.

Daniel: What are we gonna call it? Oh

Laurel: shit, I forgot about that.

Nichole: I thought that's where you were. Okay. No, no,

Laurel: we're gonna, we're gonna name it.

Nichole: I was like, I guess

Laurel (2): you could name it. That would be funny. , Maybe we can just combine these two events.

Laurel (2): We should not do that. For our poly amateur, our, Sex Condo secrets Hideaway Retreat. .

Daniel: Oh yeah. Oh, fuck Are we gonna make it a retreat ,

Laurel: I've already started inviting people.

Daniel: Are we leading workshops?

Laurel: No, it's a relaxation retreat. Who, who have you invited? Just my partners. Okay,

Daniel: so like 20 people. So I,

Laurel: yeah, I'm preparing, I'm preparing the infantry to march out.

Nichole: we know that we're going Yes, we're absolutely going. I say February. I think that's a good idea.

Daniel: I say February

Nichole: rude. Now I'm gonna be super self-conscious about how I say Feb February. It's okay,

Laurel: ma Astro.

Laurel: What else do I say? Weird. There was something else that I said. Weird.

Daniel: It's okay. Everybody says February. I just wanted to give Nicole shit for no good reason.

Nichole: Anyways, I say February. Yes. should we just go for Daniel's birthday? Yeah,

Laurel: we can,

Laurel: We can celebrate your birthday there,

Nichole: regardless.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Oh, are you going with me or without me?

Daniel: You're just gonna go for my birthday.

Nichole: You can come if you want. Okay. But this is a serious question. Yes. I love both of you so much. And I was like, where? Where's the other shoot dropping typically when we travel. Yeah. We get. A big room. Yeah. That has two rooms. Yes.

Multiple: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Would it be a crime if I got my own room?

Nichole: No. Okay. You wouldn't be offended? No.

Daniel: No.

Nichole: Okay. Because if it is truly a relaxation retreat, Nicole would like to relax alone by myself.

Laurel: Okay. But also, I was like looking at the website today. Mm-hmm. And they're starting a secrets too. Have you seen this? What?

Multiple: there's condos starting at 2 99. 99.

Nichole: Oh. So we're buying property in Florida.

Nichole: That will likely be underwater in 15 years. Yes. Sounds great. Where is the secrets

Laurel: to,

Daniel: it's like in Tampa?

Laurel: No, I think it's still in Kiss Me.

Laurel: Okay. There was a decent amount of information on like purchase now, but not a lot on what you're purchasing and where and like what kind of amenities will be there. This sounds

Nichole: like

Laurel: Florida,

Daniel: is there like various suites with different accoutrement? Like some have the sex swing, some do not. No.

Nichole: That's the thing is that like the condo owners are the ones who decide what's Yeah. Inside. Yeah.

Daniel: They decide what kinks you're gonna participate in.

Daniel: Yes, yes. Yeah.

Nichole: And the only stipulation is that you have to rent out the room half of the year. Yeah. Have you told Reid. No, I haven't.

Nichole: My first thought is like, yeah, Reid is like very handy. He really likes to like, you know, create things and have projects and I'm like, well, I guess we purchase and then we just send Reid to like, Reid is our handyman. Yeah. Considering he almost fixed the door to our kitchen. Like he was telling us like how to, how to fix it.

Nichole: And like

Laurel: Reed, would you like a new career as sex condo handyman?

Nichole: Yeah. I guess we should clarify. This is Reed of, of the Titular Reed Alert.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah. This is a serious,

Laurel: serious stu. Serious stu.

Daniel: If you wanna come visit us, you gotta be a serious steward.

Laurel: You gotta get a segment named after you.

Daniel: At the very least, you have to write us a written review on Apple Podcasts.

Laurel: Please,

Nichole: please,

Laurel: can you please do that, please? Yeah, yeah, do that. Give us five stars, and write us a review where you get your podcasts.

Laurel: And follow us on Instagram and Blue Sky and, uh, not on the street. And talk maybe if we talked about it beforehand. and talk about us on Reddit.

Daniel: It's a tricky thing, right? Because we have chosen as a topic for our podcast, something that a lot of people are not really comfortable being out about.

Daniel: Be brave and normalize it, if not for yourself, for poly amateur hour

Laurel: If not for yourself, then for me and my need for attention.

Daniel: Speaking of your need for attention.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I've heard that you might have a story to tell today.

Laurel: Oh, I have a story to tell today. I have a crazy sexy polly. That super sexy story begins. With a breakup, like all good, sexy stories? Well, I guess it doesn't begin with a breakup. It begins with, emotional turmoil and, worried obsession.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. And conflict. You could say that it begins with a breakup, but just like the seed of a breakup within your mind.

Laurel: Yeah, so I had been having issues with this partner for a while.

Laurel: , Just like different incidences coming up that were sort of, different iterations or manifestations of essentially the same problem. and that problem being like, oh, you get super absorbed in NRE and then do things that are material deescalations or deprioritization of our relationship.

Laurel: And then there was a recent incident that just kind of like pushed me over the edge a little bit. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, I thought I could just like, get over it. And then I didn't, I just kept ruminating on it and still feeling shitty about it. Mm-hmm. and then was like, okay, why am I still feeling shitty about it? Um, and then was like, okay, it's because I, I think it's gonna happen again. Yeah. Because I don't think my partner really understands.

Laurel: What the issue is, what the issue has been. Mm-hmm. Even though we've talked about it a lot. So I don't, I don't trust them. And then start the really cool, crazy sexy polly part where I started informing both of you guys and, other partners of like, I think I need to do this.

Laurel: Like, I think I need to like end this relationship. Or at least like talking through the issues with other partners and trying to get like a reality check and then deciding like, this is a thing I need to do, and then being like, okay, but I know with this specific person. I'm gonna have a hard time going through with it.

Multiple: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. And I need everyone to remind me why I need to go through with it.

Daniel (2): So, and this coincided specifically with our trip to Las Vegas. Yes. For, , star Trek, Las Vegas. Yes. I believe that. We were leaving the airport when when I leaned over and I said, is everything okay? And you were like, I think I'm gonna break up with, uh, hater of dogs.

Laurel: Oh, cause I think I told Nicole first. Yeah. Oh yeah, that's right. So my,

Nichole (2): yeah. We are waiting for you to go pick up the car to Yes.

Nichole (2): Deliver this giant fuck off box to the Rio. We are standing there, we've all been together on the plane for four hours. You know, Laurel and I have been solo for, uh, 45 minutes. She tells me this and I go, Laurel, we been together for four hours and you're telling me this.

Song: Now

Nichole: you didn't start with this information.

Nichole: I'm shocked. Like, yeah. So that reinvigorated me. I woke up and we started talking and I did not hold back Yeah. On my thoughts or feelings. And I did ask you, I was like, is it okay if I don't hold back on my thoughts? Yeah, yeah. Because you also, I mean, I've never had that relationship with you where I mask Yeah.

Nichole: How I'm feeling and I'm not good at it. Yeah. So. Wouldn't be able to do that anyway.

Daniel: and I think previously, you know, when you've vented about hater of dogs, you have, it's like Mother of Dragons uhhuh. Yeah. That's the theme I'm going for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. you have said ooh, I'm kind of inviting you to talk shit with me and participate in this, but not too much.

Daniel: Yes. Because only I can say this much. Yes. this Time we we're both like. Are you sure? Like you want to, you, you're asking us to, to let loose and tell you all things that we have been ruminating on and to help you solidify your resolve to go through with this.

Daniel: Yes.

Nichole: Yeah.

Nichole: Thank you for that. Thank you for that opportunity. Well,

Laurel: I think this is like a really interesting, like specifically poly dynamic and you see people like talk about this subject a lot. Mm-hmm. About like, what's okay to share with your partners. and usually that's from like my perspective in this situation, like as a hinge, how much should I like tell you?

Laurel: Yeah. but then there's also like the other end of it where it's like, okay, how much of my opinion do I. Give about this.

Multiple: Yep.

Laurel: And some people have very strict rules of like, you never say anything about anyone and you never talk about this.

Laurel: And like, I've just never operated that way because like, my partners and Metamours are also my friends. Yeah. Yeah. They're people I really trust

Nichole: Yeah. And I think it, shifts from situation to situation. Yes. But I also think that like Daniel has a romantic relationship with you and so is going to have different Yes.

Nichole: Opinions and feelings and experiences. Than I am. Yes. Observer, also stone cold bitch with a dead to me list. So like, you know, I, this is, this is just how I operate.

Laurel: But that's all like super useful information to me because also like, like Daniel has like intimate knowledge of how I like, react and behave in certain, like, romantic tiffs.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Or situations. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So like, even if it's like I'm complaining about something, , you'll also be like, yeah, but like you do X, Y, and Z this

Daniel: is true.

Laurel: Ah. And so, then I get like a reality check on like my own behavior. What am I starting or what am what am I enabling?

Laurel: Yeah. Or what are you

Daniel: avoiding or

Laurel: what am I avoiding? Yeah, that's a big one. and then I also get like, yeah, the more like observer, like. friend perspective that doesn't come with the added like, there's some level of like, I'm protecting you mm-hmm. Aspect to it, but it's not the same as like another romantic partner.

Laurel: Yeah. who also is like competing with the like time or romantic energy that the other person is taking up. Correct. Yes.

Daniel: , My basic rule in these situations has been that I try not to say anything about a partner that I would not say to them, maybe not right in the moment, you know? But I try not to have secret conversations.

Multiple: Yes, yes. Yes.

Daniel: What was different about this, right? Is this is a conversation. If you're going by generally that rule, the more we talk about it, the more you have to go through with it because Yes. Besides that, then you're going to be setting yourself up to lie.

Laurel: Right?

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Which is part of my impetus for being like, okay, I need to talk about it. So it makes it real. Mm-hmm. Yep. for myself, fermented in my synapses

Nichole: makes it real. And because you anticipate the response that you're going to get. Yes. Yeah. Right?

Daniel: But did you anticipate the celebratory, enthusiastic atmosphere, which we would bring to it? 'cause I feel like it was a, , a release of all this stuff we're, we're like. Bringing in other podcasts, you know, we're talking, we're talking with That's true.

Daniel: We're talking with friend of the pod. Windy, pretty. Yeah. And, and Fested.

Multiple: Yeah.

Daniel: From Greatest Gen, fame and we're all getting together and going to the Pepper Mill where they filmed showgirls. So it's all like mirrors and neon and fake trees and we're having big slushy drinks and just like, lemme tell ya, lemme tell ya about

Nichole: this

Daniel: dude.

Nichole: I have never ever seen Laurel. Drunk like that. And I think it would be hilarious because I think you would immediately go auntie, like just somehow out of nowhere you would be in a tracksuit and like smoking a cigarette. Curlers would be in your hair. They would just

Laurel: appear here. Anyways, I was expecting some enthusiasm for the project. I'm not, I'm not oblivious.

Laurel: I know when there are tensions and some general dislikes. I also was there when he was doing the passive aggressive dog behavior. The dogs are not being passive aggressive. No. The passive aggressive reaction to dogs existing

Daniel: , Can I have a tiny bone to pick?

Laurel: Yeah, sure.

Laurel: Pick it.

Daniel: I like my dogs better than I like most people already. if you have a problem with my dogs, try and have some awareness about you just having problems with dogs in general and not make it about them. 'cause they're fucking angels.

Laurel: This is, this is a tough thing because also like, obviously I love my dog. I know that she has anxiety and like some behavioral issues that go along with it. And also she is an angel. And so like, I understand some discomfort with her because she barks. Yeah. And she jumps up. Yeah. but my friend's kids who are afraid of dogs react with more grace and maturity about her

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Than this partner has.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: When everything is about you. It is very hard to muster up some grace and perspective Yeah. Of how to, how to behave in somebody else's home. Yeah.

Laurel: I made this joke a long time ago to a Metamor once, um, yeah. when I say I am non-hierarchical, what I mean is my dog is more important than anybody.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Like, I'm not one of those people that like. Treats my dog as if she is human. 'cause I know she's not human, but she is a dependent,

Multiple: yeah.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Like you claim her on your taxes. I mean,

Laurel: can neither can confirm nor deny.

Daniel: She, she, uh, knows how to read at like a third grade level, but only communist propaganda.

Nichole: Okay. So I'm curious. Mm-hmm. So we spent most of the weekend, I mean, reveling in our glory, but also, yeah. Like every once in a while being like, Hey, have you, like, what's going on? Yeah. Checking

Daniel: in. , Have you told this podcaster about your breakup yet? Was it helpful?

Laurel (2): Yes, it was. It was definitely helpful in like, solidifying for me, like a reality.

Laurel (2): It's a thing that I, I need to do. and helping me like understand from like an outside perspective of like, I deserve better. I try to be very like, empathetic and try to like, understand things from my partners' point of view even before I like speak to them about it.

Laurel (2): I'm always like, well, you did X, Y, and Z because A, B, C and A, B, C isn't really your fault. Mm-hmm. Or whatever. or these are just like maladaptive coping mechanisms you've learned through life, and that's really sad for you. And so, like I make up a lot of like excuses Yeah. For things. And so it is helpful to like one, obviously it's not like completely objective, but to just sort of objectively state a series of events to people

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And them to just like drop their jaw and be like, what? Yeah. Like, what the fuck? Yeah. And to know that, like, I'm like, okay. Yeah. That wasn't, like, that was an obviously unkind thing to do. Yeah. and so like, yeah, to have like outside perspective and reminder of like, There's something wrong with this behavior.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. it's like a weird thing. 'cause it's not like, there has to be like a good guy and a bad guy or someone has to have done something like objectively bad or wrong, for it just to be enough that it's like, yeah, you don't wanna be treated that way.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. and so you shouldn't be

Nichole: because I don't, I don't think that we're like the arbiters of justice in deciding like what's right and what's wrong.

Daniel: I am arbiter of justice. He is hater of dogs.

Nichole: I do think that this conversation relates to our question today. Oh, yeah. Because this is a kind of uniquely kitchen table polyamory

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Situation. Yeah. , Because we know this person, right.

Nichole: And have interacted with this person because we choose to practice kitchen table polyamory.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Was that the leftest segue of all time?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Wow. She didn't even have to bring out the whip.

Laurel: That was some like, uh, segue kung fu.

Daniel: It was like a sleight of hand. It was like, oh, we're on this segment. Oh, no.

Daniel: Wait.

Laurel: Oh, you thought it was this card? It was this card all along. What segment is this? It's time to ask the amateurs.

Daniel: Ask the amateurs. Here they come. Are you gonna finish that? The song? No, the Coca-Cola. You can have the last sip. Are you sure? Yeah. It's mostly backwash anyway. Yeah.

Multiple: Gross. Yeah.

Daniel: I, I'm doing it 'cause I just wanna get my spit in your mouth in some way or another.

Daniel: Ah,

Daniel: I hate you. That

Laurel: was mean.

Nichole: All right. Are y'all ready? Ready.

Daniel: Wait. Okay, now I'm ready.

Nichole: Hello. Chuckle Fox. This might be the first time that I've been included in the Chuckle Fox.

Daniel: How does it feel?

Nichole: Are you offended or delighted? Six and one half dozen in the other.

Laurel: Well, I guess like, I feel like a few episodes back, like you started participating in some more chuckle fuckery.

Laurel: Yeah. So welcome.

Nichole: Thanks. It's,

Daniel: it's catching. Yeah.

Nichole: All right. I'm curious about your kitchen table dynamic with one another, and if and how that dynamic extends to the other partners and dates you each have. What does that look like? Are there spoken slash unspoken rules or boundaries? What do you do to invite your metas slash poly cool into the community with you?

Nichole: I'm kitchen table aspirational. I know I can't force that dynamic with my partners and connections, but it is what I hope for. I'm looking for advice on how I can cultivate or live that intention, even if it doesn't always manifest XXX. Stewart, I love a Gossip

Laurel: Girl. Sign off. It's close. Yeah.

Nichole: Isn't

Laurel: that

Nichole: XO XO?

Nichole: I think. Yeah. I think it's just xo. Xo. This is porn stu.

Laurel: Oh, oh, oh.

Nichole: Well, well, thank

Daniel: you, Stu. Wait, wait. What? Because

Nichole: XX. X.

Daniel: Oh, gotcha, gotcha. I thought that they signed the letter porn, porn, Stu, and I was like, is this our burgeoning audience in the porn industry? I was. If so, if so, please reach

Laurel: out to us. But not in the anonymous way.

Daniel: In the naked way.

Nichole: So, yeah.

Nichole: I wanna start with rules and boundaries. Mm-hmm. Because I think what this person is alluding to is, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think they're alluding to PDA, I could see that because that is the number one question I get from Normies.

Nichole: Yeah. About like, well, but if you guys are all together, like, are there rules or boundaries with like who gets to hold? Whose hand? Yeah. Or who gets to kiss? Whom, are you okay with seeing somebody kiss somebody else? And my response is always like, I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think we've ever expressed a boundary or a rule with anyone in any of our dynamic.

Multiple: No. Um,

Nichole: I think it would be weird to do that. Yeah. but also Yeah, there is a social contract when you're coming together in this space. Right? Like if it's a meeting of the METAS for the first time, that's different.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: But in our regular hangs with our Poly Q or metas or people outside the Poly Q, it just feels like there's an unspoken agreement.

Nichole: And I don't know that we intentionally cultivated that. What is the unspoken agreement? That it's okay to be with your partners?

Daniel: Oh, yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: It's called polyamory. Yeah. Like,

Nichole: like I feel like it's okay for me to express physical affection. Yes. Yeah. If my partners are there. Yes.

Daniel: Now

Daniel: i've had jealousy before with you Laurel, showing physical affection with another partner, and it's generally been with a partner that we were just discussing early on in that relationship. , In that it, , he would seem to require a lot of, , constant contact mm-hmm. From you in social situations.

Multiple: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And , I would get, , jealous it was unfair to you. You had a hard time with it. You were like, oh, do I have to figure out a way to spend exactly the same amount of mm-hmm. Physical time with you when he is around? but still, With whatever conflict that that created and whatever jealousy it created in me, it was better not to come at it with boundaries or rules.

Daniel: I'm glad that we didn't. Yeah. Yeah. And I would never do that in the future you might be able to alter somebody's actions, but you're not going to be able to alter their intentions.

Nichole: Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And so I do think that in the context of PDA, you just have to kind of soak it up, you know, get some ERP for the PDA and just be comfortable with it, which is what I did.

Daniel: Like, I eventually became much more comfortable with the kind of level of. Connection, physical connection that you would have with him in social environments. Yeah. Um, and I acclimated to it and I stopped taking it as a reflection on me.

Nichole: I'm trying to think of any other spoken, unspoken rules or boundaries that this person could be referring to.

Laurel: Yeah. I mean, we were just talking about the like, what we do and don't divulge to each other. Yeah, yeah. About our other relationships. I don't know. I feel like there are probably more people out there with our situation than like the internet. Or social media leads you to believe. We all know that we have a similar set of values. Yeah. And with that similar set of values means that we don't really have to explicitly outline like this level of PDA is Okay.

Laurel: And this level of information is okay. And so it's a lot easier for us to sort of like naturally navigate that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I've never had an issue with like the amount of like PDA or interaction with like, other partners. but it's also like everyone knows there's like a time and place for certain things.

Nichole: Yeah. Because this other question of like, what do you do to like invite metas into your molecule or like invite people in? Yeah. this feels like such a dumb answer, but it feels like an energetic thing, right? Mm-hmm. It's like, I know this person is going to get along with these people, and so I want to introduce them and I also just prefer meeting partners.

Nichole: Partners. Yeah. Because then I'm not filling in the gaps. Right.

Daniel: also, you're a curious, empathetic person and you like to meet people.

Nichole: I do like to meet people. Yeah. But I think where I'm struggling is the idea that there's like a series of steps that you have to take in order to cultivate kitchen table polyamory.

Nichole: And what I like is. We know that there's an understanding that we have similar values. Yeah. And that's what brings us together.

Daniel: Yeah. I think that the stu is already doing one thing very Right. Which is understanding that they can't force people into kitchen table dynamics. Correct. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I would also extend it a little bit is that you also like, you know, man, you like can't force the vibe.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think that this might be actually a good time for a real quick normy corner, for the vibe,

Daniel: , For a phrase that we didn't know was a phrase early on in the podcast, but we just dropped it casually and you're like, oh, you, Nicole, you were like, that's a thing. Garden Party Polly. Oh

Nichole: yeah. Yeah. Oh, right. Fuck. Right. That was like

Laurel: one of our very early episodes. And you said that Nicole, and I was like, what the fuck

Daniel: is that?

Daniel: And we were like, we're gonna have to go look that up later. And now, eight months later. Garden Party. Polly It is like the, the, the, the chill cousin of, kitchen table poly. Mm. Yes. Where it's like the door is kind of open, people can kind of drift in and out. You're not in like a kind of a dedicated network of communication where you're all, expected to have a connection. It is what I see as like the intermediate, step if you're moving toward kitchen table too. Yeah. Like it's very hard to just move straight into a kitchen table dynamic.

Laurel: I'm gonna say if I were a normie, I would have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

Nichole: I just looked it up if you need me to define it. All right. I'm tap it out, Nicole. Okay.

Daniel: What's the definition?

Nichole: All right, so garden party poly is where the expectation is that metas are at same large social events.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Birthdays, celebrations like that. But there isn't an expectation of like meta to meta relationships.

Nichole: Like they know of each other, they can say hi. Yeah. They see each other socially. , But it is not the level that, like you and I have Laurel. Right,

Laurel: right. So they could literally be at a garden party together.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Well, I was thinking of it more like energetically man, Uhhuh. No, I get

Laurel: that. Yeah,

Daniel: yeah, yeah.

Daniel: It's like, it's open air. There's no shut doors around it. You come and go as you please. You just wander over there, have some lemonade,

Laurel: come on back, sit in the swing. You're like, the relationship itself is the garden party. Exactly, man. God.

Laurel: Alright. Yeah.

Daniel: Anyway, by either definition, the more literal or the vibey.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: Um, I still think that it is an important intermediate step on the way to kitchen table.

Laurel: So I think that actually is like a thing that, like whether you do it consciously or not, there's an open invitation when we have parties.

Laurel: You guys throw parties more often than I do. Mm-hmm. Of like inviting your metamours to it, whether or not you've met them. Yeah.

Daniel: And casual metamours too. Mm-hmm. Like people who you may not be officially partnered up with. Right. Yeah, right. People were dating.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that in of itself, you're not on kitchen table level necessarily just because you're inviting someone to your party, but it is a gesture of showing interest and curiosity about a person.

Nichole: stepping into the pool of like garden party poly or kitchen table poly does require some social functions. Right. Yeah. Like, we keep centering it around, like Yeah. We throw a lot of parties. Mm-hmm. And the expectation is that like, our metas are gonna come. Right.

Nichole: They're just, there's, it's just a blanket invitation. But then we also host things like every Thursday. Mm-hmm. And we have people over at the house all the time and like Yeah. Um, Daniel hosts, partners here. Yeah. and so I think that there's like, I just don't want to ignore the fact that like, not everybody is a social person or a social function person.

Nichole: Yes, this is true. There just might like it. I think it also depends on, how introverted or Extrover and you or your partners are. Your partners might not be interested in meeting their metas not because there's jealousy issues or what have you. They just might not have the energy to like Right.

Nichole: Be around that many people. Yeah.

Daniel: So even without large social functions, you can think about the process of getting to know a metamore as dating mm-hmm. Not romantic dating, it's like a friendship escalator. Mm. And you can't expect to just drop people into this like, custom made slot.

Daniel: Take it chill, right? Mm-hmm. It's just as hard to create a lasting friendship or connection with someone in a platonic sense as it is in the romantic sense. And I think that just patience and seeing it as kind of a spectrum that you're not gonna suddenly wake up one day and flip a switch and everybody's kitchen table.

Daniel: Yeah. It's like, let people get to know each other. , Invite it. Mm-hmm. Encourage it. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. Actually, that was making me think you know what you're saying, Nicole, is if you, yourself, or. Like your meta isn't necessarily like an extroverted person or a very social person.

Laurel: But like, if you're nested and your partner has people over the house, like you don't have to hide the whole time. I mean, depends on your agreement with the person. But if you're both like, you know, leaning toward wanting a more like kitchen table, garden party thing, then it's like being able to like say hi to the person.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. And like chit chat with them for a few minutes before you go to your room or do your own thing or whatever.

Nichole (2): This is also giving me pause because I was envisioning this question coming to us with the person as the hinge wanting all of their partners to be friends, And to build a kitchen table. Dynamic around themselves.

Laurel: Mm, mm-hmm.

Nichole: But there's just as much energy or intention that you can put in into building relationships with your metas. Yes. Yeah. And that might be the best way to go about it, quite honestly, is like, bring some curiosity to the table and ask about like, meeting metas and ask if that's a thing that's, you know, 'cause it also I think, depends on the person.

Nichole: Like, you know, how uncomfortable they are, but like that could be a good foray into Garden party. It's just like you taking the initiative to develop these relationships.

Daniel: That is such a good point, because it's the one thing that they have control over.

Laurel (2): True. Yeah. Yeah, you do want to like just embody the things that you want in your life. I think in this circumstance you do have to show some of that like goodwill to your metas. , For your partners to sort of know that that's a thing that you're interested in. Yeah. and if they're the more like reluctant type to at least see like, oh, this is doable and maybe I do want to like reciprocate, or I see how much

Laurel: like

Laurel (2): joy this brings me between my partners.

Nichole: yeah, because I don't think there's a way you could go about it without disclosing your intention. Right? Yeah. It would be weird to like go behind your partner's back. Yeah. Like Facebook stock your meta and slide into their dms and be like, Hey, you wanna get coffee? Sometimes I wanna be your friend.

Laurel: Which I'm like, Ooh, I kind of do that. It's not secret. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You totally do that, Laurel. It's not secret. Uh, but it's like, it's also not broadcast,

Nichole: but we also have an Understood, we have a kitchen table dynamic, so It's not weird though.

Laurel: Yeah. Like, it happens like specifically like with Sean's other partners because they're so far away.

Laurel: Yeah, totally. I like, there's no opportunity for me to interact with them except online sometimes. Yeah.

Daniel: Uh, to be clear, I'm not saying stop doing this. A, a big reason that people date me is in hopes that you are gonna slide into their dms.

Daniel: She is the draw. Yeah. I mean, you would be too, but you're not on social media anymore. I'm also not that nice.

Nichole: Um,

Laurel: I've slid into Nicole's dms.

Daniel: This sounds so sexual.

Laurel: It's

Nichole: supposed to be sexual. Yeah. I can maybe I'm nice. I don't wanna, I, I don't know. Don't. You're nice.

Daniel: You're a nice Nicole.

Laurel: You're just discerning. Yeah, I'm discerning.

Daniel: Did you see the, uh, the picture that Wendy shared with us of you at the, uh, prana Cabana?

Nichole: No.

Daniel: Oh, it was on the thread. I missed it. What did it say? Uh, It's just Ben and Adam in the background, like looking all like party cabana style Uhhuh. Like, hey, kinda, we just showed up with six pack kind of vibes and you're in the foreground, like looking incredibly glamorous, but also like severe resting.

Daniel: I'm about to get sunburned face. Oh my God. You're like, like, I am serious and fancy sunglasses.

Laurel: I think Wendy captioned it like Nicole bringing class to the cabana. Oh God.

Multiple: Oh no.

Laurel: It was good. I liked it. I'll find, I'll find out. Yeah, it's, it's in the

Nichole: thread.

Daniel: I'll thank her personally. We're gonna share it on social media.

Nichole: Oh boy. All right. , Did we answer the

Daniel: question? I think we should ask Laurel whether we answered the question. There's a new mom. There's a new mommy to appease.

Laurel: No, it's just 'cause the last time, like I felt like we talked about just A-D-H-D-A lot, but not about it in the context of polyamory.

Laurel: And so I felt like,

Nichole: so did we answer the question?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Great.

Nichole: What's next?

Daniel: honestly that segue was not nearly as deft as your earlier work.

Laurel: She can't carry us. It's just unfair.

Daniel: Mommy can't carry us.

Laurel: Mommy can't carry us. We're grown now.

Laurel: I thought you brought some tunes for us. Didn't you bring some tunes

Daniel: for? I brought tunes for us.

Nichole: Yay. For. Is this Polly?

Daniel: we do have a theme for our, is this poly we're gonna be looking at. Women singers from the sixties singing about their desire not to be pigeonholed, held back, confined, owned, and controlled by their partners.

Laurel: He, you're supposed to be holding me down, but you're just holding me back in the wise words of Lizzo.

Daniel: First up, we've got You. Don't Own Me by Leslie Gore.

Nichole: That is an incredible performance. Can you link that video specifically? Yes. Okay, My only reference with this song, is first wife's club.

Nichole: I forgot about that. You don't think about that daily? No. Diane Keaton. Yeah. Bette Midler. Goldie Hawn.

Daniel: Yeah.

Daniel: Gilbert Godfried.

Nichole: Just there randomly. Yeah. I'm a first wife.

Daniel: I had always thought this song was more like. Proto poly or more like it was a feminist anthem more than it was specifically about non-monogamy. But listening to it with all of you here and this top of mind, it is really hard to ignore just how pointedly, non-monogamous some of these lyrics are.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Don't tell me I can't go with other boys. and the reverse, I don't tell you what to do. Mm-hmm. I don't tell you what to say. Like, she, she expects this for herself, but she also grants it to her partner. it's pretty pretty. Polly.

Laurel: Birthday. Birthday, birthday, Polly. I'm just thinking of parrots a lot.

Laurel: What? Like Pollyanna cracker.

Daniel: Is it 'cause of Gilbert Godfried? Yeah. And then you Saidal said something

Laurel: about like Michael Jackson molting earlier. I'm just thinking about birds a lot. It was all

Laurel: Wish there's a lot of monogamous birds out there, but I think they also But they also just don't, they don't talk about non monogamous birds. They, yeah. Yes. They the man. The man, the science community.

Daniel: Anyways, anyways, we're trying to break the record for. Poly amateur hour non sequiturs in a row to see how tangential we can get birds anyways.

Laurel: Yeah, I don't think I ever paid much attention to, like, you can't tell me not to go around with other boys, which I think there's two ways of reading that of like, get off my back. Like I can have guy friends.

Laurel: Yeah. Like chill out. Yeah.

Daniel: although she says Go with other boys, which I feel in the sixties has a different connotation.

Laurel: Yeah. Like, we're not going steady. Leave me alone.

Daniel: Yeah,

Nichole: yeah. 'cause I. I always took it as, also like you don't own me. I'm breaking up with you.

Nichole: Oh. And you can't tell me not to go out with other boys 'cause I'm gonna do it because we're broken up now. But she has the line about how, and when I go out with you don't put me on display. Mm. Mm-hmm. So like there is like, maybe there is the intention that they keep seeing each other.

Laurel: Yeah.

Laurel: . You were super in the first wives mentality,

Nichole: thousand person, but now I'm really latching onto this autonomy bit.

Laurel: Yeah. Like

Nichole: that feels like she is a whole ass person. Yes. He's a whole ass per, I'm assuming it's a he, even though we know Leslie Gore was quite queer, um, I think I've just been on this autonomy tip for the last few months. Yeah. And I really, really love, it's the same exact way I feel about that neo song I fucking love, like she's her own lady and that's why I'm in love with her Uhhuh.

Daniel: But remember this is 1963 too. This is far, far before the summer of love, or Yeah, the advent of what we think of as sixties counterculture.

Daniel: She's got, that hairstyle heavily coed looks like she, she like curled it with two tin cans on the side. Yep. Um, lots

Nichole: Of hairspray. She has white eyeliner. Yes. I noticed that too. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: But did you see the gleam and joy Oh, yeah. In her eye as she belts out this performance.

Daniel: So like, first

Laurel: she starts off like, it almost feels like she's staring me down. Like you motherfucker, you can't tell me what to do and just try it. Like, I dare you. Just fucking try it. And then I think it, like when she gets to like the second chorus, it's like freedom. Yeah. She's just like, hell yeah.

Laurel: I am in it. It reminds me of like, a really good concert and I'm just like dancing in my own little world. Yeah. And like whatever's around me is just completely inconsequential. Yes.

Daniel: And, and I think that there's kind of like a active metaphor in the song and that she changes keys.

Daniel: It's like, you can't even hold me in a single key. Mm. I'm gonna see all the fucking keys.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. She's also just a very talented singer.

Daniel: True, yes. And that as well, and I respect her talent. So is this Polly? I'm gonna say based on vibes. Yeah. Like sometimes I just gotta go with my gut on things. This feels super Polly.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. I'm not saying that that's like necessarily literally the intention of the song in its era.

Nichole: I think we can almost guarantee that it's not the intention of the song,

Daniel: but Yes.

Laurel: Yeah. I was gonna say like, at the very least, non-monogamy. yeah. I agree.

Daniel: Well, I'm glad that we all agree on something finally.

Multiple: Yeah, this has never

Daniel: happened before. So speaking of the summer of love, let's fast forward a little bit and take a look at a song from 1967. We have different drum from the stone ponies.

Daniel: Are there any polyamorous birds that we know of?

Nichole: We're both thinking pretty hard about this. Yeah. I'm gonna say no. Okay. Yeah. Not that I know off the top

Laurel: of my head. All right. Wait, there was, was it geese or a duck triad?

Laurel: This has been circulating the internet. I forget if it was geese or ducks, but they lived as like a threesome and like raised babies.

Laurel: They were definitely birds. They were definitely birds. Yeah.

Daniel: If you know of non-monogamous birds, please write in to polish. P

Laurel: Paul Pauly birds@gmail.com. Now we have to buy that fucking,

Laurel: you don't have to buy it,

Nichole: you can just, just Yeah, it's Gmail. That's fine.

Daniel: Fun.

Nichole: So this is one of my karaoke songs. Oh, nice, nice. And, I used to go to this place that was a, it was laser disc karaoke. Oh wow. And it was owned by a family. And the grandfather would sing Frank Sinatra songs and the grandson, who was the KJ would sing the Michael Boole covers of the Frank Sinatra songs, which is a tiny little bit of a change in register.

Nichole: , This is

Daniel: why you always talk about laser disc karaoke. Like this is the, not the first time that you have brought up laser disc karaoke. It's my

Nichole: favorite kind of karaoke and it is very, very rare. So the video for this, , the lyrics went. You were not cuddle to the beat of a different drum,

Nichole: and I always thought that was really

Daniel: funny. Wow. Yeah. I feel like that's about me and you, Laurel. I feel like we cuddle to the beat of a different drum. Yeah.

Nichole: Like you two are on different drum beats.

Daniel: No, no, no. Compared to everybody else. We're on a special cuddle frequency. We cuddle weird is what we're trying to say.

Daniel: Well, you guys just

Nichole: lay on each other. I don't know if it's cuddling so much as it is melting into whatever surface you're on and you're just kind of intertwining. It doesn't look comfortable. I dunno, you know why you guys do that. But are, were we gonna talk about a song. Anyways, I've never thought about this through the lens of polyamory, obviously.

Nichole: I'm just thinking of it through the lens of karaoke. Um,

Daniel: and Linda Ronstadt, you're a big Linda Ronstadt head. I'm a

Nichole: big Linda Ronstadt fan. Yes. I have read her memoir. I watched the documentary. I really fucking love her. So, I, again, I always thought of this as a breakup song.

Nichole: Mm,

Daniel: yeah. I think it is a breakup song. Yeah. I think you were correct. But I think it's a breakup song because the singer, the narrator, the Ron Stat. If you will, does not want to be in a relationship with this monogamous person. Somebody is trying to force her into a monogamous relationship. And so she is ending the relationship.

Daniel: She's not gonna get cowboyed. Yeah. Interesting.

Laurel: the first part to what Nicole is saying about marching to the beat of a different drum is I thought initially I thought it was a song of like, oh me and you we're different from the rest. No, no. But it's like, oh no, me

Daniel: and you don't align.

Daniel: Yeah. and I am nodding, but I just understood that now when you were saying it.

Laurel: Well, that's why Nicole was clarifying Yeah. That's why about our

Nichole: cudd, that always Oh, yes. Yeah. That's how it always interpreted it.

Daniel: I thought that we were, we were cuddling as we misunderstood the song today. Yes.

Laurel: we're cuddling in the misinterpretation of the song Yes. But in the correct interpretation of the song. Yeah. Like I, I also see it as a, oh, sorry, I'm not monos. Like she's not telling it from her perspective of like, oh, I wanna like go out with multiple people.

Laurel: She's like, oh no, I don't want a man who just wants to love only me.

Nichole: Yes. Yeah. Which is

Daniel: fascinating, right? Like, she's not talking about her wanting to love other people. She's like, I need you to love multiple people. Yes,

Nichole: yes. Maybe I knew something before I knew something. Yeah. I've been singing the song for like decades.

Daniel: is it really, is it really like compersion? If it's forced compersion, if it's, uh, compersion therapy, so to speak,

Laurel: if it's conversion

Daniel: therapy,

Laurel: no. There's a difference between Compersion and just like the relief that someone isn't focusing all of their attention on you. Oh yes. Correct.

Nichole: Yeah. Which I think is where this song is from. Yeah.

Daniel: you say this, like people who might have some experience dating men. Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: You wanna kill a vibe? Mention men.

Nichole: Oh,

Laurel: is this, is this one poly?

Daniel: No,

Nichole: I am struggling with whether or not it's Polly.

Laurel: I think it is more the variety of dating around non-monogamy. ' it sort of seems like she's implying that I'm just not ready for that yet. Yes.

Daniel: You mean the part where she says, I'm not ready?

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Which implies yet, like it implies you can be ready. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. She's also not ready for any person, place or thing to try and pull the reins in on her back off nouns.

Daniel: Oh God. There, I mean, this was before the advent of really mass market vibrators. So I think that she's really cutting herself off from some possibilities in the future. She just doesn't know. There's definitely some things that. Possibly, you know?

Nichole: Oh yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. I think that came up in different drum part two.

Nichole: I found a thing that totally keep me

Song: down. It's not a man, it's a woman.

Daniel: It's a noun.