Nichole: It reminds me of the time that I got super high and watched a documentary on Stonehenge, and then thought that I could secure my bed together with Twine.

Nichole: Like that day I had, bought a bed, an IKEA bed off of Craigslist, Uhhuh, and I was just sitting like, I hadn't put it together yet. Yeah. 'cause I didn't have any of the proper tools. They gave me a,, mason jar full of like loose nuts and bolts. Yeah. But like, nothing to like screw anything in. Oh yeah. And I was, you know, 22, in an apartment by myself. So I got super high. I watched a documentary around Stonehenge and then I convinced myself that I could put this together.

Nichole: I didn't need tools because these people got stones all the way across England without tools. So I put together my bed with Twine, and then in the middle of the night I rolled over and it fell apart and I rolled off the bed.

Daniel: I imagine this collapsing with both the sound and like smoke puff of Wiley Coyote crashing, an Acme flying machine, right Where it's, and there's just boards, and then he sticks his head up and there's little birds flying around his head.

Laurel : Yeah, that was pretty much that.

Laurel : A quadricycle is like those things you can rent on vacation or you see people on like the waterfront and it's like a little, carriage type thing that people pedal. It's got a covering over the top and there's four wheels on it.

Laurel : And fringe. And fringe. Yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And then you can like,

Daniel: I mean, it seems pretty mainstream.

Laurel : Yes. An awning, if you will. There's an awning over your quadricycle, but there are also two steering wheels, one of which is not connected to anything. Oh,

Nichole: it's a fake steering wheel. It's a Maggie Simpson steering wheel. Yeah, it's Maggie Simpson steering wheel.

Laurel : and then

Laurel : The one that's on the passenger side is not hooked up to anything.

Daniel: You think that's the case, but one of them is just magically hooked up to another quadricycle, like halfway around the world and somebody is just fucking. Hitting the bank over and over again because you

Laurel : are steering their Quadra cycle.

Laurel : Exactly. What made you think of this? Well, I think there's a podcast version of it.

Daniel: What's the podcast version of it?

Laurel : like you Have two guests on and there's one you don't really wanna hear from. Oh my God. And that microphone isn't really hooked up to anything.

Nichole: Yeah. But I mean, my immediate first thought is like, yeah, because that second guess is a child, and like, I don't want to hear from children, and children shouldn't be on this podcast anyway, so let's just give them a mic to play with. Yeah.

Nichole: Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour.

Daniel: I'm Laurel. I'm Daniel. I'm Nicole. I don't know why I'm making this face. Hey everybody, can you tell what face I'm making by how I said I'm Daniel.

Nichole: I,

Laurel : I don't even know what that face is. You should, , take a selfie imitating the face. You think Daniel is making an email address at poly amateur hour@gmail.com Oh my God.

Laurel : And whoever gets it closest,

Nichole: we have nothing to offer. We've got nothing.

Laurel : We'll have a Cherry Coke. We'll get a cherry Coca-Cola.

Daniel: speaking of sending us emails, I think that we should start off the episode today. With a little poly pyramid scheme. 'cause we always wait to the end. Oh yeah.

Nichole: Ah, good idea. We. Need your questions. First and foremost,

Laurel : send us your questions

Daniel: we would also love your Bones to pick,

Laurel : bones to pick

Daniel: and your suggestions for is this Poly.

Laurel : Is this poly.

Nichole: Thanks Laurel. You can send all of those to Poly Amateur hour@gmail.com. You can go on our website, poly amateur hour.com, and there are forms that you can fill out if you want to send us questions or suggestions anonymously. Or you can DM us on Instagram at poly amateur hour

Nichole: or on Blue sky, right? Blue sky,

Daniel: yeah.

Daniel: I'm just gonna make another call for submissions as well, that I have just decided.

Daniel: Oh, on. Inspired by our new great, great friends over at Open Pike Night. Mm-hmm. They have such a lovely format at this Star Trek podcast. You could, should all check it out. They cover strange new worlds among other things in the strange new worlds off season, you know, when they're doing training camp and shit.

Daniel: And they have a format where they invite Collins mm-hmm. From everybody who's watching the show to discuss their own reflections and reactions. I would like to invite more audio submissions for Poly Amateur Hour, like, almost forgot the name of our podcast. Um, so I'm talking audio bones to pick, I'm talking audio Ask the amateurs.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Like if you want your voice on Poly Amateur Hour,

Nichole: How do people do this?

Laurel : You can record like a voice memo on your phone and then email it to us. I can add to the submission forms, like an attachment thing.

Daniel: One audio message made it into a regular drop

Stubert: The sloppy polys. Let's call them the sloppy polys.

Daniel: it's true.

Laurel : Oh yeah. We can also, like, if you wanna send an audio message but don't want your voice on the podcast, we can anonymize it like they do in crime documentaries and the person's just in shadow and they're like,

Daniel: I saw the culprit

Laurel : run across the street.

Daniel: It was monogamy.

Laurel : What is our first segment?

Daniel: Let's start with a little unicorn. Hunter hunters.

Laurel : Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel : All right. I'm ready to get mean.

Daniel: All

Laurel : right, let's get me, oh, what is the segment about? It's where we find unicorn hunter profiles on various dating apps, and then we rate them on three categories, self-aggrandizement, um, some other stuff would we unicorn for them and arbitrary rules.

Laurel : That was a good stall.

Daniel: That was good. You came around. Picked it up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nichole: All right, so you've got the unicorn shelters. Tell us the goods.

Daniel: Alright. Seat belts.

Daniel: Married, mischievous, mildly addicted to shenanigans. Oh God. We are the couple your mother warned you about? No, but only because she didn't get the invite.

Nichole: Only because she didn't get the, okay.

Daniel: I guess they are very old and they used to like have key parties and shit, but they didn't invite your mom. And you should be stoked about this 'cause your mom's not cool.

Laurel : Yeah. All right.

Daniel: Okay. Okay. Happily married. Ridiculously fun and always up for a little trouble.

Daniel: The good kind. Ew. We believe we believe in strong cocktails,

Daniel: weak knees and the kind of nights that make you text, what the fuck just happened the next day? Oh, with a huge smile.

Laurel : Oh, oh no. There's like a, template for each of these. It's like questionable, but like good. Questionable. Questionable, but like good questionable. Like, , your mom warned you about us 'cause she wasn't invited.

Laurel : We like trouble The good kind. Yeah. What the fuck just happened?

Daniel: Good. It's like, it's like they're winking at you with their left eye and then winking at you with their right eye.

Nichole: I'm sorry, but we believe in strong drinks and then followed immediately by weak knees. I'm thinking roofie. Oh, followed immediately by what the fuck?

Nichole: What the fuck happened? What the fuck just happened? Oh,

Daniel: absolutely. Roofie. Oh, and then they catch themselves. Like, oh shit. That kind of sounded bad with a huge smile. 'cause you are, , you are actively consenting, then you erase it

Nichole: if you have to.

Nichole: Yeah. Caveat it. You erase it.

Daniel: Who we're looking for. Title Case,

Daniel: a fun flirty couple who loves dancing. Great conversation. Expertly crafted to drinks and making memories that are way too spicy for the family group Chat.

Nichole: I hate, I hate, I hate this.

Daniel (2): Why would you be tempted to share the memories of your hookup

Laurel : with your family group chat?

Daniel: the, the term is maybe overused, but I think it's goes without saying.

Space: Yeah,

Daniel: yeah.

Daniel: Chemistry is everything. If the vibe is right, the possibilities are endless. Our rules, oh, that's also in title case as is this next sentence fragment, because even chaos needs guidelines. B-E-C-N-G,

Nichole: yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That's what I always say. Classic acronym. I've seen that bumper sticker.

Nichole: What a

Laurel : fucking boring bumper sticker, because even chaos needs guidelines.

Daniel: Road markings be because even chaos needs guidelines.

Daniel: We play together mostly.

Nichole: Is it a rule or is it, go on.

Daniel: Think of us as a dynamic duo with flexible teamwork.

Daniel: Is the flexible teamwork, does that mean they send a representative? Like they're still playing together, even if one of them shows up, but they're like working on behalf of the couple.

Laurel : Yes. Yeah.

Daniel: Flakes belong in cereal, not our inbox.

Nichole: Fuck

Daniel: off. No endless texting. If we want pen pals, we'd time travel to the 18 hundreds. Also. Fuck off.

Daniel: No unsolicited nudes. We prefer the thrill of anticipation, or at least a proper hello first

Laurel : what's weird is like none of those things are really like rules.

Nichole: This is bending my mind a little bit. And I sound like I'm

Laurel : defending rulemaking. I know. I, I'm like, is this the first time where somebody has mistaken boundaries for rules and not the other way around?

Nichole: I think these are just preferences. Yeah. Yeah. They are just, yeah. We prefer to play together, but you know, it doesn't always have to be that way. But we're

Laurel : flexible, dynamic duo also, we don't like flaky people.

Daniel: Again, GWS goes without saying

Laurel : goose with side eye.

Nichole: That's

Laurel : every

Nichole: goose,

Laurel : which also GWS goes without saying,

Daniel: where's my fucking. emoji of the goose with the side eye. So I can send that the next time I wanna look at somebody's scan. You

Laurel : can, you can do it on, on apple. Now I made a capi bar emoji, but I can't send it to Sean because he's not on an Apple platform. Oh. So that's sad.

Daniel: A moment of silence for the capi berry emoji that died in solitude.

Laurel : That goes unsent to Sean. It sits in my keyboard, but it cannot be delivered.

Daniel: We know that. It's nothing like sadder than a lonely copy bearer. Like, yeah, they want company. Oh my

Nichole: God. Please don't make me sad.

Laurel : We're already sad enough as it is with these douche nozzles continue

Daniel: About us. One of us will charm you with magnetic energy.

Daniel: The other will have you weak the knees with a single smirk.

Nichole: Do we have to guess which one's which

Nichole: are they sphinxes?

Nichole: Isn't there like, one of us is lying and one of us is always telling the truth. Yes. Yeah. And you have to figure out the riddle.

Daniel: The one that's lying is the one with the single smirk

Laurel : we, that's how Daniel tries to lie open a

Nichole: little

Laurel : bit.

Nichole: He thinks that's how everybody lies. Yeah. Okay. Stewart's fucking Laurel and I by now, we absolutely know Daniel's tell. It's because his mouth hangs open a little bit whenever he is trying to tell a lie. I think we've talked about this on the podcast the other day.

Nichole: We're driving somewhere Daniel's in the backseat.

Nichole: And Daniel proceeds to tell us that he was a brown belt in Jiujitsu as a child.

Nichole: As a child. And both Laurel and I are like, oh cool. And then he's like, ha ha. Got you. Ha.

Daniel: And we were like, okay, I'm a brown belt in fibbing jujitsu. I used your own strength against you. And then I flipped

Laurel : it

Nichole: because we couldn't see whether or not your mouth was hanging open.

Laurel : Yeah. And I think I turned around, I think once he like revealed it was a lie, I turned around and he was just like.

Nichole: For the listener Laurel's mouth is hanging slightly open

Daniel: with a shitty dang grin. It's just what

Nichole: he does.

Daniel: I think lying is overstating. It's not like I ever lie about my secret family in North Dakota.

Laurel : you try to trick us

Daniel: Yes. Into believing that I have a secret family in North Dakota.

Nichole: Yes. Those were the listeners from North Dakota. Got it. Oh,

Daniel: Would y all like to see some pictures? Yeah, I guess. First up,

Nichole: that is an America, the bikini, right?

Daniel: It is in America. The bikini. That's why I'm saluting. Yeah. It's got the stars down, low stripes up top.

Nichole: Yep.

Daniel: Big fake tits.

Nichole: Oh yeah. But I don't knock her for that.

Daniel: You don't knock her?

Nichole: I'll knock them. Knockers. I don't disparage her for that.

Daniel: I do not either. But it is part of a whole kit of parts. Yes. Right. American flag, bikini. Fake tits. Bleach, blonde Sunglasses on the top of the head. Mm-hmm. And were you able to like clock his tattoo?

Laurel : I'm guessing it's an eagle, but

Nichole: Oh, okay.

Laurel : So they're America, the couple, it doesn't look like a good tattoo.

Daniel: I mean, is there a good massive bald eagle tattoo that exists? Like,

Laurel : I don't think so. Okay.

Daniel: It is a bald eagle that looks like it has been through some shit to,

Nichole: yeah, like America,

Laurel : there's a dog,

Daniel: but it's really weird 'cause he's like running aimlessly. Like what is exactly he. Doing. The dog is not chasing him, but he's like making the motion, like he's running on like a turf looking backyard, right? Yeah. It looks like AstroTurf. I think he's wearing a maga hat backwards.

Laurel : Ooh, let's not judge all red hats.

Daniel: Hashtag

Laurel : hashtag not all red hats. I feel sorry for Red Sox fans.

Daniel: and. It's not a single smirk. He's making this expression in every single photograph.

Nichole: He's shirtless in all of these photos

Laurel (2): He stares into you. And then like the world like turns into flame lava and it swallows this whole.

Laurel : not in like a sexy way?

Daniel: We'll end with this bad boy.

Nichole: Oh, no. He's dressed up like a pirate. No, these are leg avenue, like sexy sea marauder.

Laurel : I'm actually impressed that, that there is such a scantily clad men's pirate costume.

Nichole: I know this brand so well because. Because I worked at a, at a vintage store that also sold Halloween costumes. Oh, okay. And one day we had to wear one of the leg avenue ones. They made all of us dress up in one of those. I chose Dorothy, and now I feel weird about that.

Nichole: Fair. Right. Fair. That is a children's story character.

Laurel : Yeah. And she was also like abused. What

Laurel : By the fucking like producers and shit. Oh, oh,

Nichole: Judy Garland. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Sorry, not Dorothy.

Daniel: Because she was gaslit into believing that Oz didn't exist.

Nichole: That's the moral of that story. All right. Well, um, how do we rate them on self-aggrandizement?

Laurel : Ridiculously fun. Oh God. I'm gonna say like a six. 'cause it's more like annoying

Laurel : Than

Nichole: offensive, I guess. See, I was gonna say like seven or eight because their repeated attempts at humor Mm. Makes me think somebody pressing humor on somebody else is, besides trying to start a cult is one of the more like self-aggrandizing things that somebody can do.

Daniel: But they don't mix. There's no funny cults out there.

Daniel: besides Poly Amateur hour.

Daniel: I'm gonna join you at the eight. I think they just seem so exhausting. Like if they are sending this kind of like. jazz hands, energy at me, just fucking constantly. Yeah. Like I imagine them pausing after everything that they say in winking.

Nichole: He was rejected from his college improv group, and now he's punishing the rest of us for that.

Laurel : Hurt people. Hurt people.

Daniel: Violence through humor.

Nichole: Violence through humor. Arbitrary rules. . I mean their rules that they listed are not rules. They're preferences.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel : Or are they gonna send the Swinger police after you?

Daniel: I mean, if they're sending the Swinger police, it's in one of those, , cheap Halloween costumes. It's like a Yeah. Yes. A sexy call.

Nichole: Absolutely.

Daniel: laurel's like, do I want the Swinger police coming after me?

Laurel : Or I'm like, do I want to be the Swinger police? Yes. Yes to both.

Daniel: We should start a field profile for a poly or triad, diad thing. It's just the swinger police and we're all dressed up in like sexy cop uniforms. I

Nichole: dunno if this is the time or moment to be doing that. I really think that's probably a very poor taste.

Daniel: Come on. Come on.

Nichole: naspa, I knew you were coming up with an acronym. I thought that was exhausting. Naspa. Not all. Not all Sexy cops.

Daniel: Not all swinger. Police oh, are bastards.

Nichole: I give them like, uh, three because they don't know what rules are.

Laurel : yeah. I'll go with three too.

Daniel: I'm gonna go like a two. I don't think that they realize that I exist as a human being. or anybody does, like they exist in a hall of mirrors that is just endless reflections of smirking men in pirate costumes and ladies in, , American flag bikinis, that is all they see when they move around in the world.

Daniel: they are able to connect with somebody, it's because they say, Hey. you are a sexy pirate.

Laurel : What do they call that? like type two, fun or whatever, where it's like fun after the fact. There's like different categories of fun, and one is like fun while you're doing it, and one is like fun.

Laurel : Like doing like a strenuous hike can be something that maybe doesn't feel fun while you're doing it, but like your reflection on it is fun.

Nichole: Categorizing fun feels like the least fun thing you could do.

Laurel : That's type three fun.

Laurel : I'm just saying I feel like they don't actually wanna participate. In the Debaucherous Act. They just wanna have that like day afterward where they're like, oh my God, did we a

Nichole: thousand percent? Did we?

Laurel : Yes. And then they wanna tell their, like other friends or their next date, like, you won't believe the crazy time we had this one time.

Laurel : Yeah. Whereas like, I think during the actual thing, it sounds like they're just like super fucked up and drunk.

Daniel: They wanna like buy the memory total recall style

Nichole: Yes, absolutely.

Nichole: They related, they, they watch Star strip troopers and they root for Neil Patrick Harris. They're like, oh, we love that uniform.

Nichole: Alright. Um, I bet I know the answer to this one. Which would, would, would, would you Unicorn?

Laurel : That'll be a no for me.

Daniel: I don't fuck fascists.

Nichole: It is absolutely a no.

Nichole: And if these people are at the swinger resort when we go, because the Swinger Resort is in Florida, Uhhuh. I will report them to the swinger police. I don't, I don't, I dunno what I'll do, but I'll give them a piece of my mind. I'll challenge them to a joke off.

Daniel: Alright, what's up next? What are we even doing here? Who am I? What's the purpose of this?

Nichole: I think we should ask the amateurs so we have a couple of shorties that we're gonna go through.

Daniel: Excuse me,

Nichole: starting with Daniel. Done.

Nichole: So this first one comes from AEW anonymously and it is what does great emergency preparedness look like in a polyamorous context? If I have two or more partners and the world only ends once, how do I decide who to spend it with?

Laurel : Why do you only have to spend it with one?

Nichole: Yeah, I don't really understand that.

Daniel: I feel like the only way that you're gonna survive the coming fire and brimstone is with a molecule. You know, one person goes out and, you know, , hunts the other few humans who are left alive. Uh, another. Another builds the fire.

Daniel: You know, you need a team. I'm saying. Yeah, you need a team in any apocalypse situation.

Laurel : That's why I still have an opening for knife skills.

Nichole: An opening in your

Laurel : uhhuh

Nichole: relationship roster. Uh, I feel like we talk about this a lot, but like, you know, under like late stage capitalism, it is like community. That is the only way we're going to survive.

Nichole: yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't know why, an apocalypse is suddenly forcing monogamy.

Daniel: I mean, there is something about. Dying together that recalls monogamy. It's like, it's, it's just tradition, you know?

Laurel : Okay. So the tradition of monogamy,

Daniel: The tradition of monogamy.

Daniel: Also like a, you know, a good murder suicide or suicide pact. Like it's always, it's always teams of two. If it's more than that, it's a cult.

Nichole: fair, we weren't talking about anything related to this, but one day I was walking with my friend in college and she just turns to me and goes, you know, the one thing about the apocalypse is at least we're all in it together.

Nichole: And you were like, is

Daniel: this Polly? I

Nichole: was, I was just like, I mean, you're not wrong. I don't know where that thought came from, but yes.

Daniel: the, we are all in it together. Thing is really interesting to me right now because I feel like the right and the left both believe that the world is ending for completely different reasons.

Daniel: Uhhuh, on the left where like, hey. There's environmental collapse, , you know, there's income inequality leading to desperation in the face of environmental collapse and the right is like, yes, the world is ending because we're all getting g

Laurel : the world is ending 'cause of affirmative action.

Laurel : Right? Yeah.

Daniel: I mean, I think the difference is like, we're like, the world is ending and they're like, our world is ending.

Nichole: Yeah. Correct. Yes. I mean, my friend did say this in 2006, so it was, it was a much different time back then. I was, it wasn't

Daniel: even, it was, everything was fine in 2006.

Nichole: I did say, I was in college when she said this, like, yeah,

Daniel: I mean, the world is ending for about four years straight when you're in college

Nichole: Uh, I, I don't think so. I had a great time in college.

Daniel: Well, good for you.

Nichole: I, I went to one place and I stayed there and graduated. Well,

Daniel: good for you.

Nichole: I know.

Daniel: And your parents are still together too.

Laurel : I'm so,

Laurel : I dunno. Why, why is that a thing?

Daniel: What, what?

Laurel : like people being traumatized by their parents. Like separating

Daniel: No, I'm traumatized by everybody else's parents who stayed together. I'm like, how do I even communicate with them? I don't understand.

Laurel : With the parents? . Or your wife,

Daniel: Nicole. How even love.

Daniel: I think that's how you propose

Daniel: se fours. I'm standing like 50 feet away and I'm like just doing.

Nichole: That's why I had to coach you through your proposal to Laurel, because Uhhuh, that's

Laurel : like,

Nichole: mine was so shitty. Confusing.

Laurel : Well, my parents are separated, so it was a little bit easier for you. You gotta just speak

Nichole: the

Laurel : same language. We were both out waving flags,

Daniel: despair, and apathy.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. oh, we've been wanting to know what kind of flag we should fly. We should find the despair flag.

Laurel : The despair flag. Great. And

Daniel: the apathy flag.

Laurel : Yeah. Don't choose just one. Flag or partner to end the world with?

Nichole: Yeah, I guess that's the answer to the question. Yeah.

Daniel: Okay. Real quick, what roles are we going to play in an apocalyptic situation?

Daniel: Nicole is obviously the organizer of our, of our survival cell, right?

Laurel : Yeah. Like she's outlining our like needs and next steps

Laurel : What is my job?

Laurel : Your

Daniel: job is

Daniel: mad Max. Fire pole dancer.

Laurel : I don't think that's useful.

Nichole: See, I was gonna make your job be like old man storyteller. Like Yeah, you're the guy that provides the entertainment. You're the, you're the C3 po around all of the ewoks. That's like telling the story of. Star Wars

Laurel : Tell Daniel does tells the Star Wars story.

Daniel: People are gonna need to hear it after we don't have physical media anymore. So Daniel explains

Nichole: the plot

of movies Better only go out over episodes four through six. Honey,

Daniel: I'm, I'm already in this role as a Gen Xer among Gen Zers and millennials , what do you think I'm doing during this slow motion apocalypse?

Daniel: I'm just explaining the plots of films that they have not seen.

Daniel: Speaking of cinematic universes, eh,

Nichole: eh, eh. Good segue. Second question. You ready? Ready,

Daniel: ready.

Nichole: In what fictional universe would you like to read slash watch? Some wholesome polyamory storylines? I'll start. Buffy The Vampire Slayer is an obs natural choice for a poly. Cool. I am also a fan of an all queer poly coole from the nineties girl favorite The Babysitter's Club.

Daniel (2): I mean, thanks Stewart. You stole , the best one right off the bat with Buffy. .

Laurel : It was better. It was taking the obvious choice from us. You know,

Daniel: I mean, if, , , she really wanted to make this, , efficient, she should also , forbid Star Trek.

Daniel: Okay. But if we're gonna, if we're gonna cover Star Trek real quick, , which show, because I feel like it is one cinematic universe, but I feel like, you, you're choosing your molecule right out of the individual ships.

Nichole: I mean, if it's wholesome poly, probably either TNG or what, what's that face?

Daniel: Well, like it doesn't feel wholesome to imagine them all in a molecule together. 'cause they're just so family , like, I don't wanna imagine Picard banging Jordy.

Clip: It's penetration possible. I know just yet. It may be an option

Laurel : Why is it an age gap issue or like an interracial thing that you have a problem with? Oh, it's ableist. Don't worry.

Laurel : my biggest disappointment with the fairy smut. I read like I've read a court of sadomasochism and bad boundaries, like that series is actually called a Court of Thorns and Roses. Okay. I was like, . But I like to make up other titles about like what the book is really about. Oh yeah.

Daniel: Like how we call reacher large man. Yeah,

Laurel : exactly. Yeah, exactly. and the most disappointing thing about those books is how like they get a little gay later on.

Laurel : Mm-hmm. But they are so heteronormative. Mm. And it's just like they're fucking fairies. Like you could not, you could not have just imagined. they have these like sexy festivals and stuff. Yeah. But they're still like, just fucking hyper jealous, love triangle TURs.

Nichole: I was really struggling with this question.

Laurel : Yeah.

Nichole: Because I feel like I don't indulge in a lot of , fictional universes.

Nichole: Yeah. You know, except for Star Trek. But I love romance novels. Mm. Specifically Nora Roberts. Yeah. Because her female characters. Are fully formed people that have very specific jobs that like Nora Roberts deep dives into.

Nichole: And like The women are not needing a man. There's a lot of single mothers, blah, blah, blah. I would love a Nora Roberts esque novel that follows the arc of any of her books, but ends up in some kind of Polly situation.

Nichole: Mm, yeah. I think she'd do it really fucking well.

Laurel : I didn't watch enough Dawson's Creek, but I feel like Dawson's Creek could be one.

Laurel : I just have the sense about it.

Daniel: I'm gonna surprise absolutely no one throwing a couple out here.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Get some reacts. , The three stooges.

Daniel: The problem with all the comedy teams is they're usually related to, it's just like you end up with , the TNG problem. Right. Then they're like texting the next day. What the fuck just happened? God. , No. First I'm gonna say Muppets.

Laurel : Aw. That would be a pretty wholesome poly Q.

Laurel : Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel : That'd be

Daniel: wholesome. Also super entertaining.

Laurel : Now those are shenanigans I'm down for.

Nichole (2): Yes. Also, I'm pretty sure Dr. Teeth and his band, they're already a poly. Cool. Yeah. Janice Is like, I love everybody

Daniel: I think that, miss Piggy is in pretty much like a mono.

Daniel: Polly relationship with everybody that she's with. Right. I just imagined her being serviced by many, many,

Nichole: oh,

Daniel: yes. Right. And she's just Muppets

Nichole: and Charles Groden.

Daniel: Yes. Apparently. I mean, Charles groin is honorary in every Polly girl. She's the ultimate pillow princess, right?

Daniel: Yes. She's just lying back, right? Oh, yeah.

Clip: sex gist.

Daniel: Gonzo is like, nose gets erected

Clip: A Zo. I was just talking about you.

Daniel: on walls.

Nichole: Okay. We don't need to sexualize the butts. We just want wholesome, wholesome.

Daniel: Whole, whole. You can't have wholesome without.

Laurel : You can. All of the furniture and PeeWee's Playhouse

Laurel : pcu adorable.

Daniel: Okay. Twin Peaks.

Laurel : Oh,

Daniel: oh. What is the term that you taught us, , the other day, Laurel, where it's one guy and a bunch of women Polygeny.

Daniel: So it's the one situation where I'm like, I am okay with Agent Cooper and just like all the hot Yes.

Daniel: Girls from Twin Peaks, right?

Laurel : Yes. Yeah. I'm into

Daniel: that. are we including the giant and or the Arm as hot girls? Yes. As the hot women of Twin Peaks? Just in the extended molecule.

Nichole: I mean there's also a shit ton of like hot men too. Yeah. Oh yeah. He got Sheriff Truman, , David Lynch's character 'cause he was young and cute. , James Bobby

Nichole: listing Twin Peaks characters now.

Daniel: Ghost of David Lynch.

Daniel: I thought you were cute even when you were old. And even now that you're dead,

Nichole: alright, you're better than me. The only thing is that like, there's nothing super wholesome about Twin Peaks because it does have a lot of like rape and murder, , and incest. So

Daniel: like, and yet it also has a lot of pie.

Laurel : Yeah. Yeah. It lives on the edge of, the wholesome veneer of seedy underbelly. Yeah.

Daniel: Dougie Jones.

Daniel: And I also just wanted to throw it out there that Dr. Who I think is already. About a rotating molecule. He's basically Oh,

Laurel : yeah, yeah. He's basically

Daniel: traveling around with his companions.

Laurel : Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense.

Nichole: yep. Agreed. Yep. Yep.

Daniel: Are you making the sound like the, uh, Martian Muppets? Yep.

Nichole: She's also making the face stop turning me on. Oh, yeah, he gets turned on by Muppets now, so like, and

Daniel: apparently the ghost of David Lynch, and apparently that makes me better than Nicole. I'm attracted to dead directors.

Laurel : What is it? Do you want to eat them or fuck them?

Laurel : Make up your mind.

Nichole: I mean, okay. I was just about to make a segue. Do it, and it has to do with cannibalism. Did it involve army hammer? No. It was just basically like, speaking of cannibalism, Laurel, don't you have a bone to pick? Uh, yeah. Did you bring the femur? And now I hate myself.

Daniel: Is the femur like the talking stick for the bone to pick?

Daniel: Like you pick up? Yeah. You have, yeah. Yeah.

Laurel (2): Laurel has the femur today. Yeah. I've got a bone to pick. Okay. For a long time. people would say, like, , Men don't go to therapy enough.

Laurel (2): Mm-hmm. Like this was a whole thing. Mm-hmm. Like get a therapist. Yeah. And now, i, i have come across profiles of men on the internet that are like, you know, like they're, they're virtue signaling mm-hmm. That they go to therapy. Mm-hmm. Or being like it's a green flag if you go to therapy or whatever.

Laurel (2): And, uh, to be fair, like I do think that there are women who also put like similar things in their profile that are like, leave me alone unless you go to therapy or whatever. Yeah.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Forget about your, uh, credit score. Show me the receipts from your therapist. Yes. Shit like that.

Laurel : But I am here to say

Laurel : that your therapy don't mean shit. Like I feel like that's like a nice baseline. but here's what I think that a lot of therapy is missing and by what a lot of therapy is missing. I'm gonna, um, also say what a lot of my exes are missing, is like a value system.

Daniel: Yep.

Laurel : Mm. And like your therapy isn't really doing shit for you unless you have like a clearly defined value system.

Laurel : Mm-hmm. And you're figuring out how the pieces of your life fit into that. Yeah. And then how you can port yourself according to your values.

Daniel: Now think there are certain modalities of therapy which are starting to approach that Yes.

Daniel: More. Yes. I think a lot of the history of therapy and a lot of the history of my therapy too, before I really figured out what could possibly work for me had a lot to do with talking about my trauma and making up stories for why I am so fucked up in this particular way. So I could, you know, have my red string Daniel diagram.

Daniel: Yeah. And I'm like, look at that trauma, huh? Yeah. That's why I keep my security femur now

Laurel : Yes.

Daniel: Is because of that.

Laurel : Yeah. And look at that. Stop looking at my femur. Stop telling me, me, my femur is the problem. Look over here.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel : Mm-hmm. Look at the map that I drew.

Daniel: That's a picture of a wooly mammoth.

Laurel : Leave my femur

Nichole: alone.

Nichole: We're cavemen in the future. Okay. Yeah. Yes. Go on.

Daniel: Cavemen in the future. So, a CT therapy or ACT therapy has a lot of values based techniques. Like a lot of it is thinking about what it is that matches up with your specific values and how to pursue that.

Daniel: It like specifically takes the focus off happiness mm-hmm. As a goal and puts it on values. Yeah.

Laurel : I think that gets more to like the meat of the issue for me is I think that a lot of people go to therapy and they're like, this is to make me feel better.

Laurel : Like therapy is to make me happy.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel : and what they, what we get a lot. And then I think what our culture, like Recirculates is more like, it is, it deeply focuses on your trauma or like what has happened to you to explain why you're an, an unhappy person and then everyone stops there.

Nichole: Is your bone to pick about therapy itself or the fact that people are putting it in their dating profiles

Laurel : it's not therapy itself. I think it's more of like a,

Daniel: specific boys who hurt you

Laurel : like a little bit, but it's like, it is play, acting, wellness.

Laurel : Mm-hmm. That's like the problem and I think it's a little bit of like some soft boy bullshit. Mm-hmm. And to be fair, like women do it too, it has nothing really to do with like, healing yourself to like show up in your life the way that you want to and to like better your life.

Laurel : I think it's like the Tony Soprano like syndrome like I'm just gonna go to therapy and it's gonna make me feel better about the shit I'm stuck in.

Daniel: And then you carry around like that identity and the knowledge of your trauma. Like it's fucking lab. Boo boo. On your bag.

Laurel : It's my lab. Boo Boo. and you can't question me about it.

Laurel : it's fine to be like in the process of doing that work, but I have had exes like present themselves as like, , I'm self-aware and I go to therapy.

Laurel : Mm-hmm. And they feel that way because they went to therapy. And then like, the more you like untangle the web, you realize like you're not self-aware. You've been doing sessions a long time with someone who's just like reflecting. Mm-hmm. Your trauma back to you. And saying like, yeah, like I get why you feel bad.

Laurel : Mm-hmm.

Daniel: I understand the desire to want to stop there and to also go back to that well over and over again for diminishing returns.

Daniel: Because I think that the very first like disclosure that you have, like when you're carrying around heavy shit. You know, specifically for somebody like me who has OCD, like the first time that I went to a therapist and talked about my intrusive thoughts, it was so freeing, That emotional, , catharsis really changed the way that I felt for a while. I felt elated. It was like, um, getting my tattoo last night. You know, I walked away with a, with tingles in the limbs. so, 'cause you wanna go back there, right? And like, oh, if I just share this over and over again, then I can continue to have this good feeling.

Daniel: But it's not the way that it works, like. The disclosing of something that is traumatic is really like a one time high. Right. You don't get to go back to that. Well, , yeah. So

Daniel: it is really tempting to be like, I'm not actually going to focus on things that I actually want to change about my life. 'cause that's the hard work,

Laurel : Yeah. It's like everybody wants to go to therapy, but nobody wants to do the work of therapy. Yes.

Nichole: I'm really latching on to the virtue signaling idea.

Laurel : Yeah.

Nichole: I do not advertise the fact that I'm in therapy. Yeah. the same way that I don't advertise my sobriety in my dating profile.

Laurel : Yeah.

Nichole: Right. Like it's an aspect of my life.

Nichole: It's not the aspect of my life. Right. It also is an incredibly personal journey that like, I don't need you to understand. Yeah. I don't need you to have the same kind of experience in order to connect with me. I also don't expect that of anyone else. Right. I don't expect them to have the kind of work that I have done.

Nichole: , And if they want to or have Great. That gives us a vocabulary that we can both draw from. Yeah. And a language that we can both speak together.

Nichole: I can't like divorce therapy from the fact that it is incredibly, like inaccessible for a lot of people. Like it costs a lot of money. Mm-hmm. , And yes, they're services like better help or five cups or, you know, like

Daniel: One cup, three Stooges. No,

Nichole: but it, it's, I don't know, it's like if somebody put on their profile.

Nichole: Like, this is an extreme example, but like, if you've never been on a private jet, don't even bother. It's just like, I, I just, you know, like somebody can have all the desire in the world to want to go to therapy, but they have to, you know, work two jobs to raise their kids. Like, I, I, It just smacks of like privilege to me. Mm-hmm. saying two things to me.

Nichole: If you need me to be in therapy in order to date you. Then like, you need me to be of a certain class of people and a certain type of person, and you're not open to meeting other people or other kinds of people. it is also saying to me like, the fact that you are sharing that you are in therapy it feels like a tell don't show.

Nichole: Like it, like it, it doesn't, yes. Yeah. Actually say anything to me. Mm-hmm.

Laurel : Yeah.

Nichole: there are instances where I have come across people who go to therapy to explain their trauma over and over again, but not actually do any of the work.

Nichole: Yeah.

Nichole: I don't know that I can pick that up from a profile, but the likelihood that I would be the next person to hear about all of your trauma Yeah.

Nichole: Is probably pretty high. And then it would just feel like a date on the Bachelor or the Bachelorette.

Daniel: How do you, how do you feel when you see somebody mention trauma at all in their dating profile? For me it's an immediate, , swipe left if they mention

Laurel : trauma

Nichole: in their dating profile. Profile. Has anybody?

Nichole: I've never, I don't know that I've seen that.

Daniel: Oh well I have seen it plenty.

Nichole: Really?

Daniel: Yeah, I have. Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel : Like, I can picture it in the hinge font.

Daniel: I feel like it's very gendered. Like I've never seen a man actually mention trauma.

Laurel : Yeah.

Laurel : , Like, great, you have shit and you're like talking to somebody about it theoretically,

Nichole: but I wanna find that out on like a fourth or fifth date.

Nichole: Yeah, Disclose to me that you're in therapy later on when we've actually gotten to know each other.

Laurel : And when. Yeah. It seems like relevant.

Daniel: I don't wanna hear about your therapy unless there's like fun stories like we tell about our therapist. Yeah. grandma's well. Water turling.

Nichole: Oh, Turling. My God.

Daniel: I feel like the main thing that keeps me and Laurel going, uh, to therapy together is the, there's a bowl of candy there.

Nichole: Yeah. They change it up all the time. There's new candy. Ooh. Yeah. That would keep me going too, right? Are you kidding? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. I don't know what kind of psychology she practices, maybe, Uh, Pavlovian. That's what I was thinking. Is this chocolate before chocolate after?

Laurel : Yeah. Yeah. I just know that I get rewarded for being there. And when you guys have a

Nichole: fight and once somebody owns their part, their hand immediately sticks. Like, it's like, like Daniel, Daniel owns his part of the fight. I want thesis now.

Nichole: And he just automatically, like his hand just extends and he's like, why am I doing this Laurel's like reaching for candy. And she's like, why am I reaching for candy? Yeah,

Laurel : digging through a bowl. We're the goodies. Listen, I think it's great to de-stigmatize going to therapy. Like you don't have to have capital T trauma to go to therapy or.

Laurel : Issues. but like it also doesn't mean anything about our compatibility. It doesn't necessarily mean anything about your like level of self-awareness or your ability to like engage healthily in conver in conversations, in relationships, which are a lot of conversations. Yeah.

Daniel: It's like when people talk about being a nerd now, right?

Daniel: Yeah. Like okay, great to de-stigmatize nerds, but you can't actually like have that stolen valor. Right. Stolen valor.

Nichole: I feel like still in Fowler and I feel like you can't have nerds without monoculture. Yes. Like, yeah, we're not in a monoculture anymore. Yeah. So like claiming nerd dumb is like. it does not mean anything.

Nichole: Yeah, it doesn't mean anything.

Daniel: There are so many shitty subcategories of nerds now. I feel like an incel is like a category of nerd.

Nichole: Absolutely. Oh my god. Speaking of nerd, you guys.

Daniel: Yeah,

Nichole: we had to do forced fun at work the other day. Oh no. and on our team, we had like a team wide quiz.

Nichole: So it was a bunch of like questions about individuals and we're all playing on phones during this live teams meeting. and you had to like select the person you thought, you know, this statement was about. Oh, okay. Yeah. A question came up about me.

Nichole: And it was the only true or false question in the entirety of true or false.

Nichole: Nicole's wedding was fine.

Laurel : And everyone's like, I don't know. False. False. I don't know. False. She must have been more excited about it than that. Not

Daniel: it, it gets super meta though, 'cause she won't disclose it. So does that mean it's probably not fine even though she says it's fine? If she says it's fine, does that mean it's not?

Nichole: You literally had 15 seconds to like, answer any of these questions.

Nichole: , So the question that came up about me was true or false. Nicole is super excited about going to a Star Wars convention.

Nichole: Almost everyone on my team said true except for three people.

Nichole: I immediately unmuted myself and went Rude. Rude. This is rude. Like how dare you think that I'm going to a Star Wars convention one.

Daniel: Oh, I didn't even notice that you said Star Wars.

Daniel: Oh, Daniel. Yeah. That pay attention. That was the thing. Yeah. I just bleep out Star Wars in my head when I hear it. And insert Star Trek. No. Plus. Plus. Is there such thing as a Star Wars convention? That was

Nichole: my follow up is like one Rude Two. Where there Star Wars conventions? I think that's just fucking Disneyland.

Nichole: Like, I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about. Yeah,

Daniel: that's just

Nichole: like a fucking

Daniel: Trump rally.

Nichole: Yeah. Shuts fired. So later, you know, people are like. Talking like there's a leaderboard and people are going up and down or whatever. And I hear in the background of one of the rooms where people are all gathered, someone say that Nicole question really pissed me off, like I had come up with it.

Nichole: Did they believe it was a trick question? They believed it was a trick question because it was Star Wars and not Star Trek. Like, oh,

Laurel : wow. Yeah. Do you, do you know if, the person who designed the question made a mistake?

Nichole: No,

Laurel : she was like, uh, it was a Star Trek. Okay. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laurel : Because she knows me. She, yeah, she me. Yeah. She was like,

Nichole: and then I came in second place in this fucking quiz and I won a hundred dollars like gift. Ooh, wait. So I messaged her. I was like. Thank you so much. I feel like you made that for me also. You know how poorly I did last year, so I

Daniel: feel like is the goal of the quiz, like do you win if people know nothing about you or have completely No completely misguided opinion, opinion about what you're doing?

Daniel: No. How are you not following this film? Well, you said that, you said that everybody thought that you were going to a Star Wars C. They brought

Nichole: them down a notch, which brought them down.

Daniel: Oh, they lose by not knowing about people. Correct. Hey, I think that I like the idea that this is a game where it's like, yeah, is Nicole secretly a fucking sea captain?

Nichole: Yeah. See that's the thing. If that was the game. I would win by a fucking mile because no one knows anything about me and they have learned not to ask

Laurel : Secret Sea Captain.