Nichole: this bums me out. I want tracksuit Snoop Dogg.

Daniel: I mean, I don't know why people are super surprised that Snoop Dogg is dropping some homophobia,

Nichole: has bad takes. It just feels super late and super retro.

Daniel: Maybe he quit smoking pot or something

Laurel: and it hard, he just remembered That is homophobic.

Daniel: I mean, at this point though, if it's Snoop Dogg criticizing Pixar, that's like Snoop Dogg versus Disney. I don't know if there's like a winner. Here , we are recording this in the wake of, , Disney's cancellation and then Reinst

Nichole: Reinst

Daniel: of Mr. Kimmel.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: I think, uh, I think we're all losers.

Laurel: We're all

Nichole: fucking

Laurel: losers. We're all losers in this, in this wild world of. capitalist decline.

Daniel: this reminds me of the lawn sign that we were discussing

Laurel: Oh, yeah. In this house.

Daniel: So I think this is, I think this is the most. Poly amateur hour piece of merch that we could possibly create. It is a lawn sign in the typography and style of those in this house. Love is real. Yeah.

Laurel: Love is real. Is that what it is? I don't know. It's like love is love. Science is real.

Laurel: Uh, love is science.

Laurel: Racism

Daniel: is bad.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: So our lawn sign that we're gonna create is in this house and then in really big typography. Everyone is wrong.

Nichole: Everyone's a little

Laurel: bit wrong.

Nichole: And I guess that's up to interpretation of what that means.

Daniel: And whatever you take on, what it means is. You're wrong. You're wrong. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour. I'm Laurel. I'm Nicole. I'm Daniel. I started using an inhaler today. Today, yesterday. It's all one fucking day. No man. No. No.

Nichole: Okay. Janice Joplin. it, you had, it was a prescription that you had, so it's not like, it was like,

Daniel: yeah, I had never used it before.

Nichole: Oh. Why are you always trying to fact

Daniel: check me?

Nichole: Well, it's confusing. It's confusing.

Daniel: You should understand that I am always wrong, except for when I'm right.

Laurel: No, you're always wrong. Except for when somebody else is wrong.

Nichole: Yeah. that's more accurate.

Daniel: So I started using an inhaler Uhhuh. Um, I decided in the long parade of like reasons why I have like shortness of breath

Laurel: was the asthma you've been prescribed medication for forever and just suddenly decided to start using.

Daniel: Okay. I mean, this was the inhaler that I got for my allergic asthma that I never used. There's another inhaler that I got for my long COID that I never used. Wasn't able to find that. but I think it's gerd, the acid reflux. I think that I've been having such bad heartburn when I sleep that it's throwing little particles into my.

Daniel: Bronchial tubes and that's why I've been short of breath.

Nichole: Is this segment exclusively for like Gen X, like, like Gen X and above.

Laurel: This is like, um, it's like conspiracies of the body. Yeah. Like it's Daniel's conspiracy theories, but they're always just like internal to him. Internal.

Nichole: And we get to hear

Laurel: about it.

Laurel: Uhhuh, he's like, you guys, I finally figured it out. You did. He figure it out. Next week it'll be different. Yep.

Nichole: I'm just saying with your age, like is this an age thing or is this like a, as ailments an age thing?

Nichole: Like as we age, do we, are we more likely to

Laurel: get Gerd? Oh, I think as we age, we're just more likely to complain about everything. Ah,

Daniel: yeah.

Laurel: Got it. Okay.

Daniel: and we just start like falling apart. Like the nuts and bolts just start coming off the corners of the machinery, you know? Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yeah. I did like, I stumped my pole instructor last night 'cause like I was trying to do this trick and it's this thing, like when your upper body, like your torso's in front of the pole,

Laurel: it's like hard to explain. I can't, yeah. Yeah. I was gonna try and do it on the mic stand, but it'll just be more confusing.

Daniel: You're really raising the bar on things to do to the mic stand, to disrupt the sound quality. It's like kind of fidgeting with it isn't enough. You've gotta like,

Laurel: yeah, you

Daniel: gotta do a pole trick.

Laurel: Well, yeah, But like, usually your instructor can figure out what it is that you just need to do a little bit more of.

Laurel: Sometimes it's just like building strength over time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But like, we went through a litany of things and it just ended with her going, huh?

Laurel: And then we moved on to a new trick.

Daniel: Her, her prescription for what to do is, can you be like 28?

Laurel: except she's exactly my age, but also like a contortionist. Yeah. So I mean,

Nichole: yeah. I feel like. The other person that I would not wanna hear that sound come out of their mouth is like a doctor,

Nichole: like The other day, um, I had the best pap smear I've ever had in my life because it was quick and painless. I had this. We have this amazing doctor, right? , And I was just imagining if she was down there and went, huh? Like how much anxiety that would bring up in me. Also, I don't know if I talked about this on the podcast, while I was getting the pap smear, the rest of my coworkers in Portland were doing pickleball and like everyone kept asking me all day, oh, are you gonna do pickleball?

Nichole: Are you gonna do pickleball? And I was like, no, I have a pap smear. And like that shut down conversation. She's like, that's the end. I like

Laurel: of all the limited information that Nicole will offer her coworkers, like, how's your wedding? Fine. Why aren't you at pickleball? Pap smear. Yeah.

Daniel: You know, you forgot one thing about your pap smear. What, which is the reason why it was your best pap smear ever? I think you were so excited when you came home you got, you got like positive feedback. It's like when you get positive feedback at work, when they're like, you did an amazing job on this project.

Daniel: You came home and you were like, Heidi said, my vagina looks perfect.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Did I ever tell you about the penis inspection that I had that was like such a wonderful interaction with my doctor? No,

Nichole: because most, tales from the clinic you tell us are horrific.

Laurel: you saying penis inspection just reminds me of those FBI shirts that were like, female body inspector.

Daniel: I thought you were gonna say like, DEQ.

Daniel: where they just hook up a tube to my dick so I went to the doctor and I had like a little, you know, thing that only I could see this is kind of par for the course with me I'm like, no, no, no.

Daniel: I have to stretch the for skin exactly this way. And look, I, I have to rub it with vinegar. No, I have to, I

Laurel: have to breathe hot air on it and then it changes color. Yeah.

Daniel: I have to hold my breath for two minutes, turns blue and then you can see it. so I had this little blemish. you know, he was looking at it, he brought out the scope that you wear on your eye. And it looked really close. First he said, huh? And then he said, I think it's a padia. And I was like, oh my God, what's a padia? What do I do for it? Is there like a treatment? Is it a sexually transmitted condition? He's like, no, it's a part of ya.

Nichole: Was it supposed to be a joke

Daniel: It was just the way that he talked.

Nichole: Wow. That's amazing. Don't

Laurel: worry. It's just Pia.

Nichole: It's just Pia.

Laurel: It's just Pia.

Nichole: It's not Giardia. It's Justia.

Daniel: what's our first segment?

Laurel (2): My bone to pick. All right.

Laurel (2): Bone to pick. it is a tale of like compounding incidents. Mm. and I'm trying to think of like what the overarching theme to it is. Maybe it's how people Kind of like, overstate their experience with polyamory. Mm-hmm. And then as you're in a relationship with them for over a year, all of these things sort of come to light where it's like. Why are you still behaving this way if you're experienced with polyamory?

Laurel (2): Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Just realizing right now that I've experienced

Nichole: this too. Go on. Love

Laurel: it. Love it. , So

Laurel: an ex of mine, at the beginning of our relationship, Uhhuh, probably like a couple months into seeing each other kind of regularly, we had started having conversations about like not using condoms anymore.

Laurel: Yep. Okay. Um, which. seemed important to him. Yeah. and so we were like, okay, well we can both get tested. I'll start, socializing the idea mm-hmm.

Daniel: With my current partners. It was important to me too because of the sloppy seconds that I could enjoy.

Laurel: Enjoy. Yes. Yeah. Alright. so we're like going, we're going down this path and having like, you know, check-ins on the timing of all of this.

Laurel: and suddenly he like stops bringing it up. Hmm. Like the conversation sort of stop around it. It happens to like, coincide with when he starts dating somebody new.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Eventually I'm like, Hmm, weird. Okay, I'm gonna ask about it. Like, hey, Were you still interested in doing this? Like wanted to touch base about it?

Laurel: since like, I can't really remember the details, but at least I had been tested. I forget if he was like, had been tested too. Mm-hmm. And was like, okay, let's consummate the occasion. God. and then in that situation, he reveals to me that like, oh, well actually, I might not use condoms with this new partner, and then she wouldn't want me to not use condoms with you.

Laurel: And I was like, okay, This was really our first iteration of him, having a partner outside of me in our short relationship Uhhuh up until this point.

Daniel: Uhhuh Yeah. Rather than a partner inside of you?

Laurel: Yes. Yeah. Several of those already. Yeah. so, you know, so I investigate. I was like, is that what you want?

Laurel: Great question. Yeah. which, found out quickly is not what he wanted, but he, he was just, you know, I'm trying to appease whoever's in front of me, kind

Nichole: of bad answer.

Daniel: Yeah. But at that point, like, can you even be sure that it wasn't what he wanted? Because he's saying what the other person wants to hear when he is talking to them, and he is saying what you wanna hear when he is talking to you.

Laurel: that's a great point. Possibly lying to everybody who knows. and I, like at that point in time, I just made it clear, like, okay, like I'm not interested in really like being in relation with people who are going to just automatically prioritize somebody else over me. Especially when we've been like talking about Yeah.

Laurel: Something already. Yeah. And he, he responded like, okay, yeah, I hear you. And that makes sense. And like, oh yeah, I hadn't really thought about my autonomy in that way. Oh my God. And he didn't use those words exactly, but that was the gist of it.

Nichole: How are we just now to, because I had almost this same exact conversation with an ex of mine that was basically like, what do you want? And his response being, huh? Right. Yeah. You haven't investigated any

Laurel: of that. Yeah.

Laurel: Cause a lot of this, like before it becomes a pattern. It just seems like a totally miscommunication or like a, you know, and also it was so early in a relationship where it's like, okay, we're just like figuring out how we talk to each other.

Laurel: Yes. Or like where each other's values and priorities are. it's not like a, well, let me tell you about this crazy fucked up thing. yet, yeah. so that was like, An initial a hint that like, okay, maybe you aren't as experienced with all of this mm-hmm.

Laurel: As maybe you made it seem to be, further down the road. there are several situations over the span of our like year and a half relationship where, he dates monogamous women.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Which,

Laurel: I'm not opposed to people who are new to polyamory.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: and I'm not even opposed to like dating monogamous people, but like, is dating people who are monogamous, have no intention of like, wanting or learning anything about polyamory, uhhuh and,

Daniel: and is he setting expectations with them?

Laurel: Who knows?

Daniel: Okay.

Laurel: a lot of these, I find out after the fact, well, yeah, telling me like, oh, I have this date. I'm super excited about it. And it's not until like after they break up that it is revealed to me that like, oh, she was monogamous and like, had monogamy expectations and that didn't work out.

Laurel: Like no shit. Sherlock. but also begins like sleeping with a friend of his who is monogamous, who they, they've been good friends for a while and, Of course that doesn't go well. Yeah. No shit. Yeah. And apparently she tells him that she doesn't want to see any of his partners. Was this a

Daniel: coworker as well?

Laurel: No, that's a different person.

Nichole: Great. That is

Laurel: a different person. And that was a different monogamous hookup thing that did not go well. Wow. God. Yeah. I

Daniel: mean, eventually the whole world will just be filled with monogamous partners of his that you cannot encounter and you won't be able to leave the house.

Laurel: We just call that the town of anyways, and no, no shade to her, like to the, this friend, she's a very nice person. Uh,

Nichole: honestly no shade to like those of them partners Yes. Who stated their monogamous intentions.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. None of them.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: I'm not privy to any of this information. I'm just suddenly not invited around his town anymore.

Nichole: Wow.

Laurel: like if I go there to be with him, we are not hanging out with friends. You're sequestered to the apartment? Yeah.

Daniel: Wow. when he moves you from location to location, you put a bag over your head. Yeah.

Laurel: And I'm like, this is kinky. Okay. and then of course I start asking questions about this and like, you know, like, why can't I meet your friends?

Laurel: Yeah. Why am I not a part of your community? Like, we've been dating for a while now. What's going on here?

Daniel: He's like, they think you're my sister,

Laurel: God. I think, I think this is a two part like, overstating your experience with polyamory, which is also kind of a lie. Yeah. And so then like lies get woven in here.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. And like, I'm not talking like, explicit, obvious lies, just like misleading information, not whole information leaving me out of the loop when he's changing his mind about things like using protection. Yeah. Or allowing me outside in his neighborhood. Jesus.

Daniel: Well if, if he's distorting his level of commitment to polyamory when he is talking to you, you can guess that he's distorting his level of commitment to the idea of monogamy when he is dating monogamous people.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah. This is very easily true. So yeah, I start investigating asking question like, what, what's the deal? Why am I not in your community at all? And then this is revealed to me and I'm like, oh, okay. That's not okay with me. Like, yeah, you are again, you are prioritizing somebody else's desires and feelings automatically over mine without even giving me the information to like make an informed decision about whether or not I wanna participate in the rules that you are setting up for me, right?

Laurel: Yes. oh, Laurel. Yeah. So we have a conversation about that. That is when he starts stating this monogamous coworker and I am like, okay, when she freaks out about you having other partners and like the reality of what it takes to participate in polyamory. I will not stick around if you tell me I can't show up.

Laurel: At your work anymore or like can't hang out with your friends anymore because she suddenly decided she doesn't want that.

Daniel: Yeah. The fact that you needed to specify that kind

Laurel: of

Daniel: sucks.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah,

Nichole: yeah, yeah. I was told that his life is like different rooms in an apartment and he had his like, music life and he had his lover's life, Polly, Polly life, and he had his friend's life and never the twain shall meet.

Daniel: To be clear, this is a different he than the, he would, sorry, this is been, been discussing. This

Nichole: is my, he, yes,

Nichole: If you're that person, why are you doing that? You gotta ask yourself. Why, what is so

Nichole: precious?

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: Yeah. To just separate everything.

Nichole: Why, why? Yeah. Why is it, what are you afraid of? People finding out. Yes. In your other quadrants of your life. Fuck off. Fuck. All the way off. Yeah. All right, go on.

Laurel (2): Yeah.

Nichole: It was a dark and moldy night when the poly amateur gathered their curd coven to summon the spirits of, I can't even for a bone, to pick just one bone they thought. But as Laurel unfolded, her harrowing tail as the closet opened and her skeletons marched out, they found out that the legends were true.

Nichole: The dumb bone was connected to the lying bone, and the lying bone was connected to the total dick bone and not in the good way. Soon the poly amateur found themselves in a never ending mausoleum of grievance from which there was no escape. And from which they would not seek one

Nichole: for in the season of the bone. When a poly amateur takes up the femur of anger, there is nothing. Our cure craves more than the taste of blood of the shitty boyfriends of Halloween's past.

Nichole: All other segments they'd planned would be buried in shallow graves and the amateurs would revel in the divine wrath of the skeleton king and the dark bitchcraft of our first all bone episode. Pray it not be the last.

Laurel (2): next relationship. he meets somebody, you know, the NRE cycle all over again. at this juncture, , we've already had multiple of these conversations of like, prioritization, autonomy, that kind of thing. And one day,

Laurel: I'm

Laurel (2): Leaving and we're like, okay, when are we gonna hang out again?

Laurel (2): At this point in time, Mondays is only day off consistently. And he has a difficult work schedule, so unpredictable. so we're like trying to figure stuff out and I'm like, oh, well what about Monday? And he's like, oh, well that's when I would hang out with redacted.

Laurel (2): Yeah. like redacted can only, hang out on Monday. So like, we can't hang out on Mondays. And I was like, well wait, are you reserving your only day off for this one person that you just met?

Nichole: Uhhuh? Oh boy.

Laurel: and he's like, well no, it's just like the only, I'm like, that's bullshit One ' cause. As that week went on, discovered they can hang out plenty of other times. Yeah. Um, that is just a convenient time. And it was also a convenient time for him and I.

Nichole: Yep. Yeah.

Laurel: so had to have that whole conversation of like, that's also not okay with me. That is just another way of prioritizing somebody.

Laurel: , And it wasn't that he already had plans with her, it was just knowing what I know is convenient about her schedule. I'm just reserving this now

Nichole: in perpetuity. In

Laurel: perpetuity. Yeah. Yeah,

Nichole: yeah. Whereas I think what we do is week to week, we just kind of plan out Yes. The nights that like you and Daniel are hanging out.

Nichole: Yes. When Daniel and I have a date, when I have a date with another partner. When you have a date with another partner. Yes. Yeah. Like

Laurel: yeah, like normal people. Like normal people. the reason we don't already have. Dates pinned down every single Monday night, even though it'd be convenient is because schedules change.

Laurel: Yeah. And another partner might come along. Yeah. And, and that's like, Why I don't do the whole reserve a day. Yeah. Kind of thing. It's like, no, we just figure out what works for our schedules.

Daniel: and in each of these instances, right, like you would come out of these arguments, these conflicts with him, and he would usually like come around to be like, oh yeah, I see exactly what you mean.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. About this very, very specific situation and I will not do that exact thing.

Laurel: Yes. Again, yeah. It was always that, yeah. That very specific exact thing, would not happen again necessarily, but some new iteration of it. Yeah, right. Would crop up. Right.

Daniel: you know, I'm never gonna murder a hobo again, but.

Daniel: I might just, I might just murder a grocer,

Laurel: but it's more like, oh, you're so right. I will never ever do that again. Oops. Murdered somebody else, but they weren't a hobo. Yeah. I don't see what the problem is.

Laurel: Okay. So there's some other elements to this that are like poly mind fuck related, so a little bit of a confessional time. So,

Daniel: so are, are you saying that you have

Laurel: I have A poly mind. Fuck. So the same partner starts, dating this new woman.

Laurel: She is unexperienced and non-monogamy. but she's like interested in it. Uhhuh like, seems to have a genuine interest and curiosity about it. I meet her a couple times. She is super fun and sweet and we get along great. besides the fact that she like moves into his place almost immediately. Whoa.

Laurel: Yeah. what? Yeah. She like because she was staying with her parents. In like a really busy house and like he's close by, so it was just like, it was one of the like, oh, it's just circumstantial, but like, we're basically living together. I think

Daniel: she was like 19, so

Laurel: no, no, no. 26.

Laurel: Okay. I don't know how old she was actually, but definitely younger than I am. anyway, I like, I genuinely really liked her. We hung out a couple of times, like we did some like, like threesome situations and stuff. and then one day, I don't know, like a couple of months into their thing, it didn't last very long.

Laurel: they're both coming to Portland. We're gonna have like a really fun day at mm-hmm. Hopscotch. and do like fun date night stuff together, and probably hook up and everything. Mm-hmm. They get to my house and my partner pulls me aside and is just like, has this whole like tale where she just told him basically that she want, she's gonna go on this trip with this other guy who is also, I think, like monogamous.

Laurel: But we all know from the beginning, like her goal is to get married and have babies. Yeah. Like, we all know like, like she's kind of experimenting around. Well, she is looking for her husband and father figure. Oh boy. but basically like reveals to my partner, like she might've found the guy and she's gonna go away with him next weekend or whatever.

Laurel: he's super upset about this. Feels like she's just leaving him on the hook just in case And then also tells me that he's going to, break up with her tomorrow, but I should just pretend like everything's fine.

Daniel: So you can have a threesome.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: Ooh.

Laurel: Oh,

Laurel: and I did, but both of them throughout the night are complaining to me about each other. So I'm trying to go out and have a good time. I'm trying to pretend to both of them that everything is fine. Oh my God. But they're both, like, when I'm alone with her, she's pointing out like he really doesn't like kids.

Laurel: And like, you know, we go to Hopscotch, which is a place where sometimes parents bring their kids and stuff Uhhuh and like he is kind of being a dick to the kids. And she's like, she's like, he hates kids. He would be a terrible father. And I'm like, yeah, I know. is this like the dog thing too?

Laurel: Did he bite any of the children?

Laurel: No, but he threw plastic balls at them. What the fuck? Well, there's a ball pit. Okay. Have you been before? There's a giant ball pit. There was a kid that was like playing with us anyways. Anyways, you know, in one ear she's like, this guy, she's telling me all the reasons it's not gonna work out for them.

Laurel: Right. He's telling me all the reasons it's not gonna work out for them. I, I'm appending his

Daniel: title now.

Laurel: To what? Hater of children and dogs. Yes.

Nichole: Hater of anything shorter than the knee.

Daniel: He just doesn't like things that move fast and unpredictably. Sure. Which is surprising that he was into you, Laurel.

Laurel: I mean, yes. When it all comes out it is very surprising. so anyway, yeah, we have this. Date where suddenly, like I am the hinge, trying to keep everything cool between these like warring factions.

Laurel: We're like going through it. We do have a threesome. They leave the next morning and break up on the car at home, and I'm just like, my God, what have I done?

Daniel: and you're like, my God, what am I going to do? Because I'm going to stay in this relationship for another

Nichole: six months after that. I mean, I, I But Laurel, you were kind of put into an impossible situation.

Nichole: what were you supposed to do? I guess you could put up a boundary, but then it's like they're already staying at your place. You've already made this plan.

Laurel: I could have been like, wow, you guys have some things to work on and you should just drive home and work on those things.

Daniel: I feel like your inner math, if I'm going to just imagine it is like, this is already so fucked up and both of these people probably know that they're gonna break up. It's a little bit like in Star Trek when there is a planet that has already been contacted by the Klingons, and so they're like, ah, prime directive is out the wi out the window.

Daniel: Oh, like a

Laurel: pre warp society? Yeah. And the Klingons have already fucked with it. Oh

Daniel: yeah. They've been like trading gemstones and shit. We're go down there, Kirk. Kirk, bring your fucking condoms.

Laurel: I mean this makes me feel better, but I do think it's kind of generous,

Nichole: I guess. But there is also the layer of just like do.

Nichole: He was a master manipulator. So it's like, of course he's gonna put you in that situation and make you feel like it's your responsibility to have to like buoy this entire evening.

Laurel: it's not my fault. What, what happened? It's not my fault. I

Nichole: You're great. You're perfect. Is my vagina perfect? Probably. I haven't seen it. I dunno.

Daniel: Do I not tell you that your vagina is perfect enough?

Nichole: No, it means something different coming from a doctor.

Nichole: cause that doctor has seen so many. So many. I, I mean, I mean,

Laurel: I'm gonna ask Dr. Heidi next time, how many she's seen and then compare it to your body count.

Daniel: Ooh. Well, and she recently saw Nicole's vagina too. So this is one of the only other people that you can be like, get some kind of vagina comparison if you were in that kind of mindset, which you're not. No.

Nichole: Laurel wants to know how many Yeah. Not how perfect Mine was. I

Daniel: mean, don't you kind of wanna know how perfect it was?

Laurel: Don't we all wanna know? Listeners are already writing in and this episode hasn't even aired yet. How perfect is it? Like,

Nichole: like Reid said, he was like, oh, noted. If we wanna get nudes from Nicole, we have to sign up for Signal.

Nichole: And that is true. That

Laurel: is true. We'll not send over text, get on signal stewards

Daniel: or come to kisses me Florida this February.

Laurel: We gotta put, we gotta put dates on that And I promise that, If you put me in a weird situation where you and your partner are breaking up that I won't have a threesome with you. I can't promise that I haven't learned my lesson.

Nichole: Alright, so now, so we're back, back in it.

Laurel: Okay. We're back in it. I probably, I don't know, should have stuck to my scruples in some kind of way to not like, make the weird thing happen.

Nichole: I mean, again, I understand the personality of this partner.

Laurel: Yeah. And

Nichole: how manipulative he can be, but also great use of scruples. Thank you. And now that word is going to be in my head and I'm going to use it in conversation. Yeah.

Daniel: Would you like to know the etymology of scruples?

Nichole: What is it?

Daniel: It comes from the word for a small uncomfortable stone in your shoe.

Laurel: What is that word?

Laurel: Do you remember it?

Daniel: Scrupulous? No, I have no idea

Laurel: how, is that correct? I mean, because you're like, morals are the small, uncomfortable thing that keep poking at you.

Daniel: Exactly. You like, I've got a scruple. Huh,

Laurel: interesting. And it's, and it's

Daniel: holding me back.

Laurel: Wow. Wow.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Oh, so interesting.

Daniel (2): I would say, no, you know, totally, totally just him being manipulative. And it was not your fault . But I also am. Conscious right now of my ability to bring up another uncomfortable,

Laurel: that's

Laurel (2): what I was gonna say. I was like, but wait till I tell you I did it again. Oh boy. Oh boy. Okay. Go on.

Laurel: Okay. With this same partner? Mm-hmm. I wanna give so much like dirty backstory to this, 'cause I'm feeling spiteful right now. so the same partner, even though I was under the impression that his father was already dead, his father died again.

Nichole: Have we talked? Have we talked? We haven't talked about this.

Nichole: We haven't talked about. We haven't talked about this, this, okay. We're gonna vague cast that for a minute. Yeah,

Laurel: we're gonna vague cast that for a minute.

Daniel: or I always like explaining things after the fact with a beat. this just sounds like another opportunity for another addition of

Laurel: poly mind?

Laurel: Fuck.

Laurel: you know, obviously regardless of whether or not you are led to believe that this person's already dead, it's still a very, you know, emotional, difficult time for my partner.

Daniel: I mean, it's bad enough when your dad dies once.

Laurel: I know not many people have them die twice. God, this is so bad. Oh my God. Um. So it was kind of like a sudden cascade of events. partner was super torn up about it. I went into, uh, like high gear support mode for a long period of time.

Laurel: and part of that was attending an out of town funeral, with my partner and with his other partner at the time. also known as. the one that he was reserving all of his Mondays for. Oh, yeah.

Daniel: Monday girl, girl, Monday girl. She's the only real girl in the whole wide world.

Nichole: Okay.

Laurel: so we're going to this funeral. We're staying in Airbnb with a lot of my partner's family.

Laurel: I think some important context to add is that my partner has had in the past brought up like hooking me up with his partner. This other Monday girl who's coming with us, and I was categorically like, no, I'm not interested.

Laurel: So I'm not asking questions about it, which I should have, but I wasn't like, what's the sleeping arrangement situation? because you

Daniel: shouldn't have to,

Laurel: because I, yeah, I took for granted that, That if it was a situation that it ended up being where we're all sharing one bed in one room, that, that would've been communicated or talked about.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel (2): And that even if this was the case, that he would hold the boundaries you'd established. .

Laurel: Yeah. So, we all drive out to this, funeral together. We're staying in an Airbnb with his whole family for this funeral. And then I find out we're all like staying in a room together, which is okay, fine. I don't actually have that much a problem like sleeping in the same bed as most people.

Laurel: Now, I can't remember if it was the day of or the morning after the funeral service. I. Woken up by my partner asking me if it's cool if him and Monday girl fool around in bed next to me.

Laurel: I like, what time is it? I don't know. the wrong time. The wrong time, but, but

Nichole: the wrong, yeah. The being woken up would be

Laurel: Yeah. Strike

Nichole: number one. The question would probably be strike number

Laurel: one. Yes. I'm already like, Hey, I'm not a morning person. I am, do not have my wits about me when I'm woken up.

Laurel: and I'm also just like confused, because I'm like, wow. What a way to put me on the spot at your dad's funeral.

Nichole: With somebody that you have explicitly put up, like not interested in Yes. Doing anything sexual with that person Yes. That you would think would include being in proximity of that sex happening?

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: You would think one. Yeah. One would think, yeah.

Daniel: but he never really thought about autonomy before.

Laurel: on one hand I'm like, we're at your father's funeral. And on the other hand I'm like, well, we're at your father's funeral. I don't wanna upset you more, make things weird or difficult.

Nichole: I mean, I also under, because it's like, oh, maybe this is just the way grief is is expressing itself. So

Laurel: I'm like, uh, yeah, sure. And then he's like. Well, do you wanna join in? And I'm like, uh, okay. I just need to go to the bathroom first. And I get up and air quotes, go to the bathroom, and I'm just like, what is happening right now?

Daniel: you're having some kind of like horror movie mirror moment, just like stand in center like

Laurel: Yeah. And then I'm like, whatever. like I can enjoy most sexual situations. Why can't I enjoy this? I go, uh, put on my game face and go back in there. and I think like by the time I'm back in the room, maybe like a couple of minutes of like being in bed and engaging sexually with them. Like they've already started fooling around, so everybody besides me has come already Christy, and then it's like

Nichole: after a few minutes.

Laurel: Yeah. It was like fast and Yeah. Whatever. Um, I'm sure satisfying anyways gone.

Laurel: Yeah. it was also one of those situations where I was like, oh, these people aren't like, really group sex savvy. Yeah. In that sense. Yeah. Like, wait,

Nichole: wait. Yeah, wait. Everyone has already come by the time you get back into the room.

Laurel: Yeah. Well, he comes within like a few minutes of me coming in, getting touchy, feeling, or maybe even before that.

Nichole: Okay. This is red string, Nicole. The timeline doesn't match up because. I think they were just worried about waking you up.

Nichole: Oh, you think they would al had already been added? I think they had already started. Yeah. I think they already started fooling around before he asked you, quote unquote if it

Laurel: was okay. Quite possibly, because I am a heavy sleeper.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: Yeah. Good bless. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Daniel: I've invited people into your bed for threesomes when you were completely asleep.

Daniel: You didn't even wake up. But I knew better than to ask you. I'm not gonna wake you up in that situation. Thank you. I

Laurel (2): uh.

Laurel (2): and then, they were like, oh, what do you want us to do for you? And I'm like, I didn't even wanna be in this situation, in this first place. Now I don't wanna be the center of this situation. Yeah. And I'm like, um, I'm good actually.

Laurel (2): And, we get up to go about our day. You're like, I'd like

Daniel: to grieve for a twice dead parent right now. Thanks.

Laurel: Yeah. I was not having it after that. They like go downstairs to like, hang out with his family. I am like taking my sweet ass time, like it turns out there was a whole ass empty bedroom in this place actually that I found that morning because I was like, I need to just go fucking be alone for a minute.

Laurel: And then realize like across the hall from us, like, oh, nobody is using this bedroom. And just like went. Stayed in there by myself. where is the Polly? Mind? Fuck, where did you fuck up? That? I like even agreed to get in bed with them in the first place. But you didn't know. You

Nichole: didn't know. There was this extra bed, and you were woken up.

Nichole: Your wits are not about you. They were not about me. And you did excuse yourself. And you were like, again, manipulated fucking situation. My dad is now twice dead and this sex will make me happy with this very loud Monday girl. That is also the thing. It's just like, whoa. Risky. Risky.

Daniel: I know. I mean, and then you do go back in the room, place one pinky upon his penis and it explodes.

Daniel: Yeah. So the pinky, the pinky, the penis pinky. That's the mind. Fuck

Laurel: the

Nichole: penis pinky. No, I just, I just, I disagree with both of these mind fucks. I don't think that you necessarily did anything wrong. I think I just could have, not in the first place, I guess, but we also could have not done a lot of things.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Then I can, he could've not been a total asshole. And then I stayed in that relationship for another four months. Was it really only four months? Well, that was in, oh no, I guess that was in January. Not till like make you feel worse. Yeah, staying there longer. So six months, another

Nichole: eight.

Laurel: August. When is it? Was it August? Yeah. Oh fuck.

Nichole: Eight months. Jesus Christ. It's fine. I stayed in a relationship a full year after. I should have ended things

Laurel: Yeah. We haven't even gotten to the conclusion of the bone to pick.

Laurel: Great.

Nichole: Alright, I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready.

Laurel: Oh my God. So this is what ends up eventually actually ending the relationship. this, my partner and I have a conversation one week that's kind of like, it's been like this evolution of like, being more included in his life, considering I was excluded for a period of time. Like intentionally excluded and at times for the benefit of other women. Yes.

Daniel: for conscientious stubbert out there, we will now be referring to a joke that we set up a few episodes back.

Daniel: It's true.

Laurel: over the course of our relationship, there have been several weddings that he has gone to and not taken me to.

Laurel: I've noticed for sure, but I have never like taken an explicit issue with it or had a conversation about it. But he takes it upon himself to bring this up to me and say like, well, I've just like, either I have been the plus one or I haven't had a plus one.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Um, but when the opportunity arrives, like I do really want to take you. To a wedding with me and like, include you in this part of my life. And I say, wow, I would really like that. That's really sweet. And I appreciate that.

Daniel: A whole world of weddings.

Laurel (2): a couple of weeks later, literally like a couple of weeks later, not like weeks later.

Laurel (2): Yeah, not like a month later. he tells me, and this is in the context of me telling him that Daniel and I got engaged and after I finished that, he goes, well, I have some good news too. Oh my God. And I'm like, oh, really? And he goes, yeah, my friend called me about that wedding that's coming up this weekend.

Laurel (2): And since some other people couldn't make it, I can bring a plus one, long pause. in my brain, I'm like. This is his opportunity to tell me that he's like, would like to bring me, but I know that something's not right right now. Like, I know something is off. and he goes, so I'm gonna bring my girlfriend that I've been dating for two months.

Daniel: Wow. I did it in Nicole's side got like stereo size out of us.

Nichole: I don't think I realized that it was such a short time period between having this conversation. Yep. And then this happening. Yep.

Daniel: Now you've told me also this story several times and every other time I thought, okay, he's just trying to like, take advantage of this.

Daniel: context where you're really high Right. And you're sharing this really good news and he's gonna kind of, oh, this. Yeah. Lemme just, I'll just slip this under the radar. Yeah. And even that like, which is a really shitty, manipulative thing to do. Yep. I realize now is kind of me giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Daniel: Because hearing you tell it the umpteenth time, I'm like, I wonder whether he was actually trying to dig a knife in, like, how could he not think that telling you in this partic particular context in this particular order. I have really good news. I'm getting engaged to Daniel. I have good news too.

Daniel: Remember that wedding, they opened up another plus one and so I'm bringing my new girlfriend, like, how is that not like fucking sucker punch? How is that good news?

Laurel: Good news for whom? I think that he knew what he was doing wasn't good for our relationship.

Laurel: I think he absolutely knew that and was like, I do think that your first assessment was correct, that he thought that me being in a good mood and if he framed it as good news, that then I would have to temper my reaction to it.

Laurel: And my reaction was, wow, that's incredibly hurtful that you would choose to do that. Yeah. Yeah. and he was like, well, you know, I thought about. Bringing you, but then, you know, like having to bring Zoe, it just seemed like impossible. And like, we can't bring Zoe to the wedding.

Laurel: And I was like, why would you assume that? Like, why wouldn't you just have a conversation with me about that? Of course, I would not bring my dog to somebody's wedding. What are you talking about? You leave Zoe's

Nichole: name out of your whore mouth. You, you cunt. You do not get to throw Zoe into this miche osh because that is not.

Nichole: That is Ugh.

Daniel: Right. No. Right, right. No, I was also worried that you would just bring a random child.

Laurel: I was just like, yeah. I was absolutely like, like why would you assume that, and why would you make plans around that without talking to me? And then he breaks down, he goes, well, actually, I just really wanted to bring other partner more than you. Like I just really wanted to bring her instead.

Nichole: Okay.

Laurel: And I'm like, that's the real answer.

Laurel: Yeah. I understand that. Oh, no, no, no. Oh God. There's more context to this. Oh God. Because we are off the heels of like. Dealing with all of this family shit and me, like showing up nonstop for him. And then when I, like, we went on a trip together. When I came back, , my dog was really sick. I was in like a bad place and he did not show up for me.

Nichole: Yeah,

Laurel: And then he got a concussion and I showed up hardcore again. I like dropped things and drove an hour to go take care of him and look after him. And, Oliver dates were just like caretaking situations. Just like we're gonna create an environment that is good for you and like do very low key things that are good for you and not You know, exasperating your symptoms. He meets this other person. They are not doing that at all. They are going out and doing fun things and like river adventures and shit. And then comes back to me and complains like his symptoms are acting up and then we go into caretaking mode. So the fact that you wanna bring fun new girlfriend to the wedding and not the one that's been taking care of you for the last six months kind of sucks.

Laurel: Especially on top of the fact that you told me a couple of weeks ago that were this situation to arise, you would want to bring me. And would,

Daniel (2): doesn't he also justify this by saying, let me, let me consult the, uh, the record. Mm-hmm. this new partner she was all that's been getting me through my hard time with my concussion.

Daniel (2): Yep. Yep.

Laurel: Wow. Yep. Wow. Uh, I think he specifically said, because I called out like the NRE. Mm-hmm. Like, I was like, yeah, you know, like I feel like I'm being usurped by NRE because you're having all those good chemical feelings with this person doing all the fun things with, um, and I am taking care of you.

Laurel: and instead of like acknowledging and nurturing like a longstanding relationship with someone who is putting all this effort into taking care of you, you're like, prioritizing NRE. And he was like, well, uh, he got really defensive about it and it was like, well, yeah, but that NRE is the only thing getting me through this tough time.

Nichole: I have so many things to say about that, that I can't say I have so many things.

Daniel: What can't you say this is the safe slash unsafe space mm-hmm. That you've always been dreaming of.

Laurel: Oh, this is also after it takes three different performances that I am in for him to show up to one of my pole performances. Over a year and a half, I am injured for that final moment that he shows up to, so I'm not even performing in it. , And then he's dating this person for like two weeks and goes to their pole performance and brings flowers for them, and then tells me, it's like, well, it's what you taught me.

Laurel: You taught me that this is important.

Daniel: Jesus.

Nichole: What?

Laurel: Oh my God, I hope she doesn't listen to this.

Daniel: There's nothing wrong with the partner, with the new girlfriend. There's nothing

Laurel: wrong any of these like partners. No, of course not.

Daniel: I

Laurel: hope,

Nichole: I

Daniel: hope she does listen, because Maybe it will stir a glimmer of recognition and she'll be like, oh, wow, now I'm thinking about my autonomy.

Laurel (2): yeah, so we talked about it and again, it was one of those conversations where he was like , oh, well, yeah, well, I really understand. Like, I shouldn't have told you I was gonna take you to the wedding. Oh my God. And like, go back on that.

Laurel (2): Like, that's bad. And, but then he like, I don't get it. Am I supposed to take you to all weddings? Like I'm supposed to default to you for every life event thing. I'm like, no, absolutely not. And he is like, he brings the autonomy thing into it, like, aren't I supposed to like, make choices because I want to do them.

Laurel (2): And I'm like, buddy, you are ignoring the entire context of our relationship and the things that you have done and said leading up to this moment.

Nichole: He Wait, okay. It's not that he agreed to bring you to this wedding, it's that he acknowledged that he heard a desire of yours. And so what he's saying is, oh, I shouldn't have acknowledged that desire.

Nichole: I guess I shouldn't have heard you, I shouldn't have like actually been a person and a partner. That was my mistake. Oh my god. Of leading you to believe that is that I was a human being. Yeah.

Laurel: That I was capable of holding our relationship in that regard of

Nichole: holding any relationship in any kind of regard.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah. Instead of getting real high off this is, this is the shit that I can't talk about. This is the shit that I can't talk about, so.

Daniel: Oh, because it's the thing that you're not supposed to talk about.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Because of a.

Nichole: We don't have to vague cast it. I can say it. I can say it to you too. Yeah. You know.

Nichole: Oh yeah. I know what it's, yeah. It's 12 steps. 12 steps. Oh, oh, yeah. Basically like he, he was an addict. He was an addict. Alcoholic. Yeah. , And he paraded around his sobriety like it was actual sobriety. Yeah. And then used it as a carrot to manipulate you Yeah. Into like coming and taking care of him. Yeah.

Nichole: That doesn't have to stop at alcoholism. It doesn't have to stop at addiction to substance. It can go into, I need to be taken care of because I have a concussion. Yep. , And then you slap NRE on top of that good chemicals. He's feeling good. He's feeling good. He wants more. He wants more. He wants more because he doesn't know how to stop.

Nichole: Because he's an unchecked fucking alcoholic. Yeah. Who dared to think that he was like me.

Nichole: Eat that bitch. I'm just saying Your sobriety, your fake ass sobriety. My sobriety not the fucking same thing. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Oh man. Do I have to really edit all that out? That's

Daniel: fucking awesome. Fucking awesome. I'm spiritually fucking fit Hole.

Nichole: And you will be getting a ninth step men's from me.

Laurel: Oh my God. Can we, can we just make a Patreon just for that segment?

Nichole: I mean, if you can, if you can make me sound like I'm an okay person. You can.

Daniel: I think everybody who tunes in Nicole is all here for your wrath.

Laurel: Oh yeah, yeah. It is so sad that like, there's so much that has gone so horribly wrong in that relationship that I forget about components of it. I'm like, oh wait, no, I gotta go pull that out of the repository.

Laurel: Yeah. 'cause it's relevant here. Like there is so much. Bullshit. Yeah. That I don't think anyone could judge Nicole's reaction to it and think like, oh, wow. That's a little harsh.

Laurel: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Daniel: I mean, the cap was on for a long time and, just shaken, shaken the canister for a long time. High pressure on this relationship. Like it's gonna over foam when you, when you pop the top. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: I still find myself tentative, like tentative to talk shit.

Laurel: yeah.

Daniel: And so I'm just so, so thankful for Nicole's Absolutely unhinged wrath.

Daniel: You're welcome. You didn't lemme talk that much shit during this. During this relationship can't. Yeah, I know you can't. I know it's

Nichole: not. Laurel not letting you talk shit. It's you respecting her autonomy and her relationship with that person. She needs to figure the shit out for herself.

Nichole: It's the same thing that you guys do with me. I know, but I couldn't join

Daniel: in the shit talking when Laurel was talking shit about him to me.

Nichole: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You're

Daniel: not allowed.

Nichole: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel: I just not allowed. Yeah. I have to, I have to nod when he is terrible and then nod when he is okay.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He is nod along. Yeah. I mean, it's still like, it's still difficult for me to like reconcile the person who I thought I was in a relationship with, with the person who. Actually did and said all of these things.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yeah. Like there is still weird cognitive dissonance there, and like a part of me that like feels bad about it. Oh yeah, me too.

Nichole: Not about this situation. I feel, feel very justified in, in

Daniel: my wrath

Nichole: toward him. Um, but because it goes back to what started this bone, which was people who claim to have a lot of experience with polyamory and then You believe that.

Nichole: Yeah. You believe it because they say it to your face. Yeah. And you're attracted to this person. So it's like, yeah. Yeah. I'm, I I'm picking up what you're putting down. Yeah, me too. And then it's not until over time you discover. Yeah. Like, oh,

Daniel: me too.

Nichole: Oh shit. They don't actually know what they're doing.

Laurel: They don't actually know what they're doing.

Nichole: Their penis is a dowsing rod, and they're like, I'm gonna let it take me here. I'm gonna let it take me here. I'm gonna let it take me here. And it doesn't matter what that well is. If it's a person who is a fully formed human being and actually working on themselves and like wanting to be in relationship with you.

Nichole: Not good enough. Not good enough. No. You have to be a, a, a, a shallow, well, a monogamous Well, you have to.

Daniel: Now, I would like to defend the penis as a dowsing instrument for a moment, if I may not all, not all

Nichole: penises.

Daniel: What I'm saying is, I don't know if it was his penis. He wasn't like, even that sexual of a person. I don't know. Like it seemed like, yeah, that's fair.

Daniel: It seemed like insecurity, like desperate need for support. One way support. From everybody in your life and the drug-like fuel of fucking NRE, like it's like cocaine. Yeah, like that was his dowsing rod. If he had been following his penis, it probably would've led him in better directions. I've been trusting mine and it's been pretty good so far.

Nichole: Look at this podcasting in a basement full of mold with two hotties,

Nichole: so I guess you win. Good job, Peter.