Daniel (2): I'm curious about Gene Roddenberry's,

Concept of power twice he decided that



Daniel (2): a God-like entity means that they are flamboyant, immature, cruel, and gay. Both , the q like creature, Tulane, from TOS.

uh, later on, the actual cue, John Delancey. I'm here personally for this particular type of queer coded villain. This is , my favorite. The sassy gay God.

Laurel: Sassy gay God. So what is your, what is your question?

Daniel: I just think it's interesting that this is what Gene Roddenberry thinks God is.

Laurel: I think it's to echo Laurel, it's crazy that we don't have a Star Trek podcast.



Laurel: Should we just start rebranding this as the Star Trek podcast that talks about polyamory sometimes?

Daniel: It's almost as though like we decided, okay, what's the most niche like inaccessible thing that is going to turn the majority of people in the world off from listening to our podcast and guarantee that it will never be remunerative?

Polyamory might be too mainstream. How about we add Star Trek? Oh, you know what? Too many people like Star Trek. Let's also make it Jewish.

Everybody likes the Jews.

Laurel: Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour. I'm Laurel, I'm Daniel, I'm Nicole. I think today finally like, sealed the deal for me that I like really need to look at social media a lot less because like in my notifications it popped up from our monogamy, which I'm like, I don't want notifications from Reddit in general.

She just turned them off. In general.

Daniel: Yes. Like somebody is being monogamous somewhere in the world right now.

Laurel: Yeah. yeah, but it just like suggests things to me , like I don't follow the monogamy sub, but it like pops up and the title of the post was in quotes, but I have so much love to give and I was like, don't, don't look at it.

Don't read it. Don't read

Nichole: it.

Laurel: Don't read it. But, but I did. You did,

Nichole: but you did. Yeah. Yeah. And, and

Laurel (2): it is, who I have decided is a pearl clutching homophobic queer, who is so mad that people in the polyamorous community talk about how they have so much love to give this person is so afraid for their community, if polyamory is just gonna be the new standard. They were so, , afraid to talk about how monogamy brings them joy because they think that there's people who think that monogamy is evil and oppressive.

Daniel: this is probably from someone in our social circle who doesn't know how else to reach out to you. Laurel,

Laurel: I am shocked that I haven't. Referenced LARAs, get off the internet on this podcast yet.

Daniel: You totally have brought that up on the podcast

Laurel: before. Have I really That song? Yeah. But you didn't pull a clip, so pull a clip this time. Yeah.

Daniel: Jingle Boy and Clippy lad. I am my own dynamic duo. You are? What are you the, the paper clip from Microsoft Office?

Laurel: I mean,

Daniel: it's not that

Laurel: annoying.

Yeah. Why put some slack? You called yourself clippy. Not my fault. Not my fault.

Daniel: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to bring up our pet names that we only use in bed.

Laurel: If you two bring Microsoft Word into your foreplay, I am leaving this molecule and this podcast goodnight and good luck.

wait, hold on. I gotta look up the actual name of the show that I've know I've talked about on the pod before, but somebody's gotta get me on it,

pretty gay. Pretty gay. I need to be on Pretty gay. Okay, so somebody make that happen for me. Somebody, make me a stop. Somebody I just need to talk to. Catherine C so for Catherine, for those of you who don't know, she invites guests on to date her.

And like the idea of the show is that they're dating her. And so she is, , then asked them questions like, what would our first kiss be like? But she asked someone like,, what were their like sex bits? Like if they had any sex bits?

And I had so many answers to this, and they're probably so much better than 99% of the answers. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. But most of them involve your ICT boyfriend.

Laurel: It doesn't matter. Your dick is

Daniel: irrelevant. Oh,

Like I think that you have to be gay. Gay, gay, gay, gay, gay. Go on the show. No. Well, there's bisexuals on there. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Fuck you. How dare you.

You're gonna have to give up Dick if you wanna get on this podcast. She's like, only Gold Star

Laurel: lesbians are allowed on my show. She would run out. I was gonna say quickly, like four guests. Yeah.

Anyways, stupid Landia, do your magic. Get me on Pretty Gay.

Daniel: I was looking at her Instagram page. Mm-hmm. Like today. Mm-hmm. It's got like management contacts and stuff. So should I just like, make myself a press release and pitch myself to her?

You should. Okay. I think we, I think we get her on this podcast first cause we're not famous enough to be on her podcast. Yet, but if we get her to come on our podcast, then we're famous and then we can come on her podcast or Laurel.

Laurel: Yeah, we do write a press release for you. Yeah. But we also do professional headshots. Yes. We have, we send an eight by 10 glossy. Yes. Black and white and color. Yes. Along with a list of references. Yes. Of all the people who have fucked you and who you have fucked.

Daniel: like a curriculum vitae of all of laurel's sex bits that she does.

Laurel: but is that like,

so you know how you have like your headline, like your job title? Mm-hmm. Yes. And then like, you know what you did in that job. Yes. So is it like sex comedian? So is it. My, like the sex sexual partner and then the bits that I did with that partner. Yes. Yeah. But also, again, references and references at the very bottom.

Okay. I like the, taking it kind of seriously.

Daniel: Of course you do.

Laurel: Yeah. Because it's very businesslike. I'm really into this idea actually. What should I be communicating through my headshot?

Daniel: should they just be pictures of your, pussy with various pairs of glasses on top of them?

Laurel: No, she, because she has

Daniel: one with the, one with the nose and glasses? No, like

Laurel: a, like a Groucho. That's one of the sex bits That's under your name? Yes. In the cv. Yeah. Okay. oh, okay.

Daniel: She is spreadsheet this in her brain. I'm

Laurel: really like, I'm, I'm really, I'm thinking for the black and white one, it's a studio shot and it's you on like a stool, but your

Nichole: knee is up and your hand is on your knee.

Laurel: You look so uncomfortable, but you're being very professional. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The color shot mm-hmm. Is, either you playing tennis in a park. No, it's you walking Zoey in a park, , You're definitely in a skirt. Oh, maybe you're in a skirt and the wind is blowing, so you're doing like a little Marilyn Monroe, you know, but we have to have sporty and professional.

Okay. I think maybe one of them, you're just, you're turned and you're looking over your shoulder. Like, who me?

Daniel: Have, have y'all ever seen the headshot that I got done as a child actor? Oh my God, no. Yeah. What. Would you like? Where are they? Would you like me to describe them for you?

Laurel: I want y yes, but I also really need to see them, and then I will put them on our website. All right. We absolutely need them on the website.

Daniel: So the first one, I am smart boy. Mm-hmm. I'm wearing glasses that I did that I don't need.

And I've got my, them, you know, lowered on my nose and I'm wearing a little bow tie and I am playing chess.

Song: No.

Daniel: And I'm, and I'm looking to the camera as though your move.

Song: Oh my God.

Daniel: All right. Shot number two. I am a bad kid.

Ooh. And I'm wearing like a distressed jean jacket. Oh, I was gonna say leather or denim. Denim. ' with a, with a tie dye under, it was really mixing countercultures, but whatever. Sunglasses and like a microphone. And I'm like, I'm giving it a good David Lee Roth scream right into the mic. Ah, Mm-hmm. Um, shot number three. Mm-hmm. the last one, because you're gonna be doing like, like commercials you're probably gonna be selling like, candy and things and you mm-hmm.

I'm a kind of a chubby kid. Uhhuh last shot. I am outdoors in, in the sunshine in like a park. With an ice cream cone just like pigging on it. And with ice cream fucking all over my face. Let this fat kid sell your ice cream.

Laurel: Ladies and gentlemen. So which headshot got sent into the audition for it? Good question.

Good question. Oh, um, which

Nichole: one didn't get you the

Daniel: job? Probably either the nerdy one, Uhhuh or the. Uh, Jean jacket. Bad kid. 'cause I think the two rolls were, they didn't need any ice cream eating. If only. Yeah. Like if, if all, if all the giant evil space spider needed to do to fucking kill these kids was like an ice cream cone.

It's like, that's, you really should have thought of that. Like the space spider should have been like, I don't know, ice cream.

Laurel: But, but what, but what is the kid who's got an eating disorder suppressing with that eating disorder,

Daniel: chess skills?

Well now that I have shamed myself publicly Uh, what's our first segment?

Laurel: DM sliders. I just like, I always just have this very distinct picture in my head of like, you know, someone sliding a plate of sliders down. A diner counter.

you take the bun off the top to put on your ketchup.

Mm-hmm. But it's mail. Yeah.

Daniel: And we mean like postal mail. Not,

Laurel: not, had a burger. It's a boy.

So this is the segment where, we share different pieces of, correspondence that we get from stewards.

Yeah. Because we love you and, you find us tolerable and you write us to tell us. And we appreciate it. We appreciate it a lot.

Daniel: I don't

Laurel: you ungrateful bastard,

Daniel: but I do enjoy the pain just a little bit. So please, stewards, keep it coming.

Look, I was try, I was trying to do the, uh, the Picard. The Picard, the creepy Picard left.

That was actually, that was the best one. Good. Yeah. Thank you.

Alright. , I would like to begin with a letter that we received via, well, I guess it's not a letter if it's on Instagram. I'm so old. Just go with it. Let's just pretend they're all letters. All right. Let me, uh, should we make a little envelope opening? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Sound effect. Mm-hmm. Hello. I am currently going through your podcast and just got to the episode. Redheads are his Tarantino feet in which you refer to someone's office being filled with Cup O Noodles. I was going to send a video of my office, which indeed has a shelf of Instant Noodles, but Instagram is not letting me send any media, which is probably for the best in general LOL, but it's really given me a lot to think about with regards to Noodles and our physical environment.

Also, I love your podcast and Star Trek. Stay awesome. we figured out how to allow him send video media. Oh my God. And so now we will all watch the video of his office with the cup of noodles in question.



Daniel: First of all, charming as fuck, right? Yes. , But perhaps there was a misunderstanding in our, episode, Redheads are as Tarantino feet, the, , the office O noodles mm-hmm. That I was describing dwarfs this by a factor of a hundred.

I am talking like 50% of the desk was covered with cup of noodles that were stacked mm-hmm. In multiple layers. Mm-hmm. There was a shelf, like with multiple cup of noodles and there was a refrigerator. that. The whole top of the refrigerator also had multiple layers of cup of noodles. Like it wasn't an office of Noodles, it was an office for noodles.

What Daniel is trying to say, Stu, is try harder. What I'm trying to say is it's not too late to get more No. To like save yourself.

Because the road that you are starting upon it ends very badly. like you're not gonna be able to like move around. it's like all of laurel's delivery packages on her stairs.

Laurel: I really,

Daniel: oh, laurel's just staring

Laurel: at Daniel right now.

Those have been replaced by two very large bags of ball pit balls.

. I do wanna say that this person's choice of noodle Is elevated. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Those some classy assholes. Those are some classy. So, Stu, You're okay.

Daniel: Be okay with this level of noodles.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: All right.

Daniel: Next up, I'd like to play an audio message that we received.

Laurel (2): I am not crying. You're crying. Wait. You are crying.

Nichole: No, I'm just, I, I, I just really appreciate that story. Mm-hmm. I really thought when he was describing the doctors and their wide eyes mm-hmm. I was like, oh no. Yeah. But just the fact that they came back with, wow, this person is going to get the best kind of care Yeah.

At home. I felt similar when like, you know, I got to come home and I, and I was held in, taken care of by an extended network of, people that were in our poly hue.

Laurel (2): Yeah. I was actually thinking about that. ' In the situations that I have been in at hospitals, it always just seems like, my patient there Is the one that is getting the most consistent visitors. Mm-hmm. Mm, mm-hmm. Just because they just seem to have the most robust support network.

Daniel: We generally, uh, pride ourselves on our cold unfeeling exterior on this, on this show mainly. Yeah. Yeah. but do hear one how, like your story, Nicole, affected, friend of the pod, Ben Stubbert

Song: mm-hmm.

Daniel: How this, allowed him to feel like he could open up about his own story. and that it's, the like happy ending poll story that we all want. We don't hear enough about this sort of thing,

Laurel: I'm really grateful too because I'm, I'm realizing, so I have to have some pretty major surgery in the next year.

Song: Yeah.

Laurel: stemming from this. A recent hospital visit and I am going to be laid up for about two weeks

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: And outta commission for about six.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: And it is so hard for me to ask for help Yeah.

And to receive help.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: And to hear somebody talk about , the network of help that they were able to provide and be a part of. I needed to hear that. This person thought that they were going to be a burden and that they absolutely weren't and you were happy and grateful to be there.

I mean, this is the practicality of like practical poly, right?

Daniel: It's almost like he allowed the physician to like comfort you indirectly. Like, You are going to have. the best recovery ever. Like look at all the support

And I wonder now whether this doctor, like when other people come in and it seems like they may not have such a support system, whether he may be like, have you considered a molecule?

Laurel: This is gonna be a little bit of a time warp joke, a call forward if you will. Oh. So when you get to the end of this episode, you'll get this joke Uhhuh, like, Olivia Newton John might have called it and this might be radical, but it is practical. Why can't the three of us just live together?

Okay. So we had Jessica Day lover on,

, She is a content creator mm-hmm. At Remodeled love on Instagram. Yeah. And you can find all of her offerings, which she has many offerings@remodeledlove.com, and you can learn more about her story, , and the, , kind of future that, , liberals want

Daniel: We'll be having Jessica on today for our segment. Practical Poly.

Laurel: Practical Poly is a little segment we like to do or we talk to folks who are providing some kind of service for the poly community. So that can be content creators, or authors or real estate agents or sex workers,

Daniel: or somebody just throw in a, a giant orgy for their 40th birthday Yeah. Is that the greatest gift of all?

Laurel: , , She'll be, roll some tape. Let's roll

Daniel: it.



Jessica: We're missing quality B roll here you guys.

Oh no we're not.

Daniel: Oh, I've been, I've been recording for a while. Oh, have you?

Okay. Oh,

Jessica: see, a BR Always be recorded. Um, one thing you need to know about me before recording with me Yeah. Is there's a 90% chance I don't get the pop cultural reference,

Laurel: neither the do these two. Yeah. It's just Nicole out here.

Just like, it's just entertaining myself. It's fine.

Daniel: This is, this is not, this is not true. Like I get. A just a Venn diagram circle that does not align with your pop cultural references.

Jessica: Mm. You know what, and maybe I should speak gently about myself because like, if it's like a reference I'm gonna get, I'm gonna quote the whole movie.

You know, it's just a very small library. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. We're gonna feel so lucky when we hit on the one thing we get.

Laurel: Yes. So, wait, are we starting? We can start, but first, first would love Jessica for you to introduce yourself.

Jessica: Sure. Hello everybody. My name is Jessica Day Lover. She, her, I am known on the Internets as remodeled love for better or for worse. , I am 39 years old, almost 40. Nice. Like it? I am queer. I am a parent. I am neurodivergent myself with two neurodivergent ass children. Mm-hmm. I live in a nested poly with my boyfriend and my husband, who is also my baby daddy.

I'm born and raised in the Midwest. Nice. Um, I have a degree in philosophy and sociology and a minor in LGBT studies, so here I am making content

I'm a demisexual who wishes she was a slut. And shout out to the demi sexuals out there who love their demisexuality. I don't love mine. That seems to offend people. That's their stuff. Sorry about it. , I really just wish I was a mega sexual.

I, I feel like there is a slut trapped inside of me who is, is kept in a cage from her demisexuality. And if I had a wish for a genie, it would be to just make me a mega sexual. ,

Daniel: The tension between the demisexual and the slut, does that mean that you try to fall in love with everybody that you meet so that you can, so that the genie can come out as often as possible? Okay, so great question

Jessica: and yes. Um, okay. So really, I think demisexual is just the word that most people know, but I really think I'm, what I'm, I call a vibe sexual. Mm-hmm. Because demisexuality as a definition is somebody who cannot experience sexual attraction until there's an emotional connection that isn't necessarily what it is for me, the demus of it all for me. is that there Is a switch of sexual attraction inside of me, and sometimes that switch is on and sometimes that switch is off and I'm not in control of the switch is the demi of it all.

Mm-hmm. When that switch is on, she is a fucking freak. Okay. Yes. She is living her best life, and that's how I wish I was with everybody. Um, but my switch isn't on even for people where I have an emotional connection. That's why the definition doesn't really work for me. Yeah. Because my husband and I have a non-sexual relationship.

We took sex off of the proverbial table a couple years ago, And so I've been in love with so many people where my switch hasn't been on and it totally sucks.

Nichole (2): Huh? I really, really appreciate you going into Demisexuality and what it means to you because I've struggled with whether or not I am demisexual.

Quote, unquote. Mm-hmm. because I don't find myself sexually attracted to that many people right off the bat. but that's also saying that like, I don't have an sexual attraction to every person that I have an emotional connection with, even if I want it.

I do think that like when I have that sexual connection with somebody, it is on. Yes. Like it is. It is. I it is. I it is zero to 60. Like I am in it and I'm a freak. Yeah.

Daniel: this is why all of our furniture is padded. Stop.



Laurel: Yeah. Who says to be a slut you have to have sex with a lot of people? maybe you just have really slutty sex, like the sex itself can be slutty.

Yeah. It doesn't have to have, it doesn't have to have to have to, you know, it's, it's like the, I do know it's the sex

Daniel: is so condensed that it's like the equivalent of like 12 partners every time you fuck.

Jessica: Yeah. I like, think of slutty sex, like in that point as like just super embodied.

Song: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: And super like willing to go into the sensations and like the freakiest shit, you know?

Yes. I see the point. I, that's a touche for me.

Laurel: Also Jessica, please feel free to not take anything I say seriously.

Jessica: Oh, I'll let you know.

Laurel: Okay.

Jessica: I'm like, I was like, no, it's a touche. It's like I'm one of those people you can be like argue in this direction and I will deliver a solid improvised argument into it.

Daniel: In fact, I think that you should warn Laurel if you do take anything that you said seriously

Laurel: noted. Deep commitment to the bit. Alright. So would love to hear about how you came to polyamory.

Jessica: So let me, okay. If people do want to hear the, like, complete detail over the course of two hours. , The very first two episodes of the Remodeled Love podcast is me telling this story mm-hmm.

Um, so the condensed version of that is I think I was always polyamorous and didn't know it was a thing. Had a girlfriend senior year of college. Where she was like a hot senior lesbian who all of the freshman bitches wanted, and she was living her best life.

And I'm sleeping with dudes and don't wanna give that up. And so we just had this agreement, you know, but we didn't know it was a thing that you could just do uhhuh. So I was kind of already doing that. And then with my husband, we were like monogamous by default because we didn't know there were options.

And then there's this story where. A friend of mine, we had gone with him and his wife. We were gonna go float. You can float the river from Tahoe all the way down to Reno. It's really cool. And we were driving up to Tahoe to do that and my friend was like,

, Have you, have you guys heard about this thing called polyamory? And as soon as he said it, it must have been the moment that I was ready to hear it, because I was like, like electricity through my body. And for me, I was just ready to hear it because again, I was sitting there in a relationship where I was like, I know this is my person.

I know this romantically. This is my forever person. I also knew that this was not my sexual best sexual partner.

Song: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: And that was really hard for me. Like I was having nightmares where I would cheat on my husband. Then everyone was so mad at me because he's so universally likable and everyone loves him.

And so like who could possibly hurt that man? You know? And I'm like. It was almost like I knew it was gonna happen. So when my friend is like, polyamory is this thing, and you have multiple partners, it was like, oh, this is how all of these visions I have make sense. Mm-hmm. And so I was ready to go. I was like, this is how I've always been.

I was also aware that they were hitting on us. I was aware that they were flirting with us. And I

Song: was like, yes, yes, yes.

Jessica: And I could tell that my husband was a oblivious, that they were hitting on us, and b freaked out that I was like, yes, polyamory say more, and ugh, it was bad, bad, bad.

Daniel: I can detect the two distinct kinds of neurodivergence there, of the knowing and the yes.

And the being completely oblivious to, , trails diverging in the wood.

Jessica: Mm-hmm. Yes. My husband is the, he's an Enneagram five, if anyone knows Enneagram fives, he's also an air sign, so he's just like. Oblivious. He's like that. He's got that type of tm, you know,

Daniel: I don't know if you saw, but both of them just looked at me.

Jessica: I did see it. I clocked it

Laurel: immediately. Like, do you know, do you get it? This is the part where I'm oblivious is, like astrological signs and personality. Mm-hmm. Things, I don't know what you call

Daniel: them. Oh, you were looking at me to explain the astrology to you?

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: Ah, gotcha.

I thought it, it's 'cause I'm an oblivious air sign, but I'm not oblivious to people flirting with me. No, you're, you think because how would you know that you were, I I dunno. Maybe, maybe I just assume like it's on all the time, so Yeah. That's,

Nichole: that's I think you do. Yep. That's my experience.

Daniel: Um, a life of 90% disappointment.

Jessica: so I was so alive and we were floating down the river and it's like a couple hour journey and I just, I wouldn't stop talking about it. And he got so mad and he was like, you're not allowed to talk about it for the rest of this. He was super triggered and then that freaked me out.

Yeah. And so we spent the next year freaking each other out. Um, he was freaking me out like that this wasn't on the table And I pushed probably too hard 'cause I had I, that freaked me out, you know? And then I met somebody, not the ideal first relationship. It was very intense. Mm. , And it kind of put him through the fire for sure. But it reached a point where I was like, well, I know I'm polyamorous.

Song: So

Jessica: if you are not okay with that, then that means we are not compatible. And by the way, we had just gotten married like that month. Ah,

Song: yeah.

Jessica: So, um, and the next year was really, really turbulent and he was terrified to date and also wanted to punish me.

This is, this is all the stuff that he talks about. Yeah. In his, um, course that he created called the reluctant polyamorous, which is like, if you have these archetypes, there's like the people who know instantly mm-hmm. That they're polyamorous and they're confident. So I'm the confident polyamorous, and he was reluctant.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Jessica: And so he talks about how he purposely didn't date in order to. Make me feel bad pretty much. Mm. For a year.

Laurel: Yeah. Interesting.

Jessica: Hunger. I knew Hunger strike. Yeah. Yes. Literally. And I knew as soon as he experienced it, he would get it.

And sure enough, just past the year mark, he met somebody and then fucked her and then was like, oh, I get it. Yep. And it's been pretty easy since then. Yeah.

Laurel: I really love your story, Jessica, because it is everything that every redditer is, like this is the worst and you suck and polyamory shouldn't be this way. And that kind of like black and white view that there is like an ethically impenetrable way to conduct relationships is so disconnected from reality. Mm. And from like human interrelation. Mm-hmm.

Jessica: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Not only have you like worked through it, but like both you and like your husband specifically have produced, like really inspiring quality content around it.

To me that is so much more compelling than somebody who's just gonna come out the gate and be like, I did this perfectly from the start. Mm-hmm. And, and I was an angel and like, come at me bro,

mm-hmm. so, thank you for sharing. I'm doing the Nicole bit. This is the Nicole bit where I'm just like, you gush for a little bit, and then you're like, thank you so much for your service. We're

Daniel: we're, we're trying, we're trying

Laurel: to take,

Daniel: we're trying to take the weight of gratitude off Nicole's shoulders because she's usually our dedicated, like expressor of such.

Jessica: thank you for the lovely affirmations.

It is a miracle that we are still together.

I, we both did a lot of really fucked up things to each other in that first year because we were in fear and , polyamory has. A way of bringing out your controlled dramas. Like what you do when you feel out of control, how you behave.

And so depending on where you're at in your journey, like it can get really nasty. And so it's important to tell all the stories.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel: so the segment that we wanted to have you on for was Practical Poly. Mm-hmm. And so far, you've already shared one practical poly resource,



Daniel (2): We also want to Encourage encourage everybody to go check out the Kickstarter that you have going on right now for the children's book?

, All my Friends are Best, which is a fucking great name for a children's book. That's good. Cute.

Jessica: God, that's good. It's really cute. It's a really cute book.

Daniel: It makes me giddy just to think of all the people on the right wing who would get their panties in a bunch thinking about our indoctrination into our cult of, , the next generation.

So I was curious, like, has it been universally positive feedback for that? , What kind of reaction have you gotten?

Jessica: Yeah, well, great question. So the book is called All My Friends Are Best At Children's Guide to Relationship Anarchy and Relationship Anarchy exists outside of polyamory.

Monogamy. You could be a monogamous relationship anarchist, and I am a relationship anarchist. I didn't put that in my intro and I need to start putting that in my intro.

Because my non-monogamy journey led me to polyamory, led me to relationship anarchy, which I feel like is the final stop for me, because it's where my politics and the way that I do everything intersects all inside relationship anarchy and the way I do business actually.

To answer your question, the book hasn't gotten any blowback. There has been some stuff on Facebook, , but it's, the book isn't about polyamory. It's about the need to not rank the people that you love in your life and two categories of best. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The book is about a little girl named Pumpkin, and it's her eighth birthday party.

And she's with her favorite person in the world, who is this non-binary bipoc icon that she calls Titi. And this is like loosely based on my poly keel. And , pumpkin has all her friends at her party and Tee tee's looking out over the backyard and they're like, wow, you have so many friends.

Spill the tea. Who's your best friend? And pumpkin at eight years old has this existential crisis of like, well, how do you define best friend? Is it who you spend the most time with? Is it who makes you laugh the most? And so she kind of goes on this journey of like thinking about what she loves about each friend.

And each friend represents a different piece of her. And what she does with each friend is a little different. And in the end concludes, well, I don't have a best friend 'cause all my friends are best. And so I think it's like a really cute, it's brilliant to be honest, but it's a really subtle nod. To the destruction of hierarchy.

Mm-hmm. And the way that it shows up in our language and the way we embed into our friends.

But I feel like it's a really good start for children to understand. And then there's a guide, there's an exercise at the end about what relationship anarchy is and how you can begin to practice it as a child. Um, yeah. So

Daniel: I mean, honestly, it sounds pretty educational for adults in a way too. Yeah.

Because by that story, by divorcing it from the context of romantic love mm-hmm. And sexual love, , like just keeping it in this very innocent space of the like mm-hmm. The pure love that we all experience when we're young. It like allows you to just understand the concept of relationship anarchy on a really gut level, you know?

Yes.

Jessica: Yeah. It's, and it, it's, it's also funny, like there are lines in there that will make adults laugh For sure. Um, it's very much written in my voice. So the, the book hasn't gotten a ton of blowback. but Some people have been like, ah, the poly agenda.

And I've had to be like, can you point to the polyamory in this book? Because there's no, and and to be honest, there is because, , pumpkin references. , Her parents. Mm-hmm. Waiting for mama, dad, and daddy to come home. Mm. That's it. Aw, that's it. That's just so the Kickstarter is closed, but people can still pre-order the book it@remodeledlove.com.

Laurel: Oh, fantastic. I can't wait for my niece to be old enough to grasp this, to like grasp the book or like read.

Oh no. She can grab books now. She brings them to you and is like, read this to me. But she doesn't, she's one and a half, so that's, that's where the indoctrination starts, you know,

Jessica: it is already coming in and so you gotta start the counter indoctrination, you know? Right. Yeah.

Daniel: It's, it's, you gotta start with cartoon pigs and ducks though.

Laurel: Yeah, that's what I do. I have one that represents each of my partners to her.

Daniel: That's so cute. This is not true. This

Laurel: is not true. But last time she was here, she met multiple of my partners. Yeah. Alright.

Daniel: Am I a pig or a duck?

Laurel: You know, you know exactly what you are.

Daniel: , I also wanna know, , what you did anticipate, , blow back from, and it sounds like maybe you did get some, is how public you've been about your upcoming 4G.

Jessica: Okay. First, let's talk about the fact, , of what the 4G is. It's my 40th birthday orgy, and I'm only throwing it because I realized if I had a 40th birthday orgy, I could call it the 4G.

And in every lifetime I have been a adjuster and my primary relationship is to the bit, are you, you're

Daniel: just doing this for a pun. This is just like a really, really fucking long game. Pun

Jessica: Yes. As a jester and a professional copywriter, when the copy is that good, you have to produce the product.

Daniel: Wow. Wow.

Wow. Yeah.

Jessica: the big four. Oh,

Daniel: Justin's giving you a run for your money. Daniel

Laurel: Uhhuh. Yeah.

Daniel: So do you have any tips? Me and me and Laurel, not so much. Nicole , who bows out of the sex parties and, and goes, uh, to take , a bubble bath and, and listen to, , her shows. Yeah. cute. Me and Laurel are always trying to organize orgies and we've had a, tough time. I mean, maybe it's just follow through. Maybe it's like you, you know, with doing too many things, you know? Yeah. But, I was wondering if you, if you had any guidance for us for how to actually make it happen, and also maybe like any practical carpentry things for the, for the glory hole wall.

Jessica: Yes. And so this is a perfect plug for another product of mine. I literally have a course called How to Throw a Sex Party. Even a demisexual neurodivergent first timer will love. Mm. So me and it, it's all about my journey. Oh my God. Throwing my first birthday orgy. Is that you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's, it's because like it, I tell the lore at the beginning of the course, of like, my first official sex party experience was like in the swinger scene here in Reno, which the swing swinger scene in Reno is. Super problematic. Hmm. It's all white, conservative, monogamous couples.

And so, like, I had a not great experience at that party, but I had this moment where I like walk outta the bathroom and there's this hot chick riding this dude's face and her husband's getting his dick sucked by some girl in the corner of the room, and there's like two girls getting their pussy by this dude.

And I just like have this moment of like, this is my thing, but these are not my people. Yeah. Yeah. And also it was in a hotel room and you cannot open. Windows in hotel rooms, especially in the casinos here and , , artistically I need moving air. . And so it's like, fuck, I, I was like, why would you do this in a hotel room? This is terrible. Oh God. It was just a nightmare. My, oh my God. And there was nowhere to sit and it was just like, ugh. Soon as

Laurel: windows, I knew exactly what you were going to talk about. It was the smell.

Well, and

Jessica: just like temperature too, like it gets hot, hot heat, like Yeah. It was not good. Sound like all the sensory stuff. I'm like, well, why didn't anybody think of the lighting?

So I'm like, these are all things I think about. So I'm, I'm gonna have to throw my own uh, I was had a meeting with my party planner and our production assistant today and we were going through the welcome packet and I was like, our host of honor, like, doesn't like intense smells, so wear deodorant, but don't put it on any perfume or cologne.

And I said something about being high needs, and they're like, no, these are just your needs.

Song: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jessica: So I have to throw my own And then it's okay that this is what I'm asking.

Mm-hmm. Because this is the container, you know what the container is and you are asking to come, so then I can release that, like fear that I have that I'm too much.

I was actually just sitting on the group sex and orgy panel at Midwest Love Fest last week. And they also asked like tips that I have. And my number one tip is to have slutty friends. I cannot recommend it enough for many reasons.

Daniel: Done and done.

Jessica: It's so nice to have slutty friends in your life.

But I personally believe that the snack options, like I, the person who invited me to that swinger party, I was like, are there gonna be good snacks?

Because I had heard how everyone's favorite part of sex parties are the snacks. And he's like, oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It was literally a teeny hotel, like counter in the room with a box of Rice Krispy treats that had like, been ripped open and some like Costco cookies. I was like, no. As much as I love, I don't know if you've seen the photos of the spread from my last party, but

Laurel: Oh,

Jessica: I'm sure it's, I don't fuck arounds.

Laurel: I'm sure it's epic. Although I do love Rice Krispie treats and Costco cookies, but those are my alone food. Those are not my sex party food. Those are the things that I eat in the car by myself. But it's just that, that's all there was. That's insane. That that's

Jessica: all there was. Well, you need protein. Protein, yeah.

Yes. And water Also, I need something to do. Like if I'm like, I don't know if I'm comfortable, I don't know what then you want a snack table that can be a, a gathering. Yes. You know,

Daniel: I, I don't know. I get a little uneasy with like, the kind of open, prepared perishable food at sex parties or in the other room.

It can get weird. there's a sex club in town that. In its former incarnation, there used to be an open buffet.

Jessica: Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's gross. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think there's a certain size Yes. That it gets to where that becomes gross. Yeah.

There's only like 16 people at my party, I went to a huge sex party, like over 200 people in the bay one time, and somebody had brought, they had made spaghetti, like meaty spaghetti, and everyone was like, Ew, ew.

Who would bring that? It looked like your instinct is like, I'm not touching that. But then by the end of the night, everyone was like, that is the best fucking thing on the table. It hit the spot, and if you just let it go, why? Your brain decided it was gross. It actually fucking slapped. Yeah. People need to carbo load.

Yeah. After that much work.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. Oh, yeah. All right. As long as they're not like taking pasta shots off each other's body, then I'm fine. Just put some

Laurel: hand sanitizer at like the ends of the table. Yeah.

Daniel: Shall we, move along home mm-hmm. To our next segment? What do you guys think?

Jessica: Yeah.

Jessica? Yeah.

Daniel: Are you ready?

Jessica: I'm always ready.

Daniel: Oh, what are we doing?

Laurel: Is this Polly? It's the musical

Nichole: time of day.

All right. And the theme that is connecting these two is they're both from the eighties?

Daniel: Yes. They're both from the eighties.

Nichole: Great, great, great.

Daniel: They're synth rich.

Nichole: Yes.

Nichole (2): so we are starting with if you love somebody, set them free by sting



Jessica: Oh, this man has several group chats for sure.

Yeah. This, this is definitely a polyamorous song. Um, and it's, I think it gives a lot of polyamorous ethos too. Mm-hmm. Like about, um, anti possession, you know? Mm-hmm. And I think he was like famously into, uh, tantra. Yes. Oh yeah. And I feel like there's a lot of tantra adjacent motifs in here. Um, and then there's a line about not wanting to be your whipping boy or beast in a gilded cage, which is honestly half the profiles on field.

So

Daniel: I mean, nobody's perfect. So,

Jessica: so yes, my answer is yes.

Daniel: So I have a, confession to make this album was possibly the first album that I bought as a child. Huh? Um, it, it's right there. Neck and neck with this or, uh, Huey Lewis in the news sports.

This is like, okay, I am like 10 or something probably. Um, and I remember this song and I remember like really thinking like about this song a lot when I was a kid.

This is like my version of all my friends are best. Like, this is the like thing that I was exposed to as a kid that might, in retrospect, just might have turned me Polly. I don't know. So it is the rock music. Yeah. I played it backwards. Yeah. Played it in reverse and it was like

Jessica: Tipper Gore was right. May have many partners.

Daniel: Rock all your friends.

Laurel: yeah. all of the, the freedom sentiment, like rings very, very poly. And there's like, You can't control an independent heart. Can't hold what you can't keep. Um, it's, yeah, it's very much railing against like the modern sense of like marriage and monogamy.

That was like very like transactional Hmm.

Daniel: And I think there's such power in just the chorus, right? It's like, it's identifying a type of love that flourishes when it is not controlled.

Jessica: Yeah. And there's a capitalist critique in there forever conditioned to believe that we can't live with less.

Laurel: Yes, there is. And it is the one. Kind of problem I have with the song because I really don't like it when Rich people talk to me about living with Less. I know that Sting has money, but he's just an Englishman in New York, so, you know,

Is it Polly?

Daniel: Yes,

Jessica: yes, yes. Yeah. I think this man wrote this with the energy of someone who has absolutely had or deeply considered having a girlfriend with a girlfriend. So I say yes.

Laurel: All right.

Daniel: Yeah. And once he wrote this song, he had to be okay with his girlfriend having a boyfriend. Mm-hmm.

There's no going back. He said it.

Jessica: Yeah, he said it. He's like, don't throw my lyrics in my face.

Laurel: All right. What's next?

Jessica: Yeah. Culture Shock by Olivia Newton John. Hell yeah.

Laurel: Nice. Thank you.

Jessica: Hey, Kelly.

Daniel: Jessica.

Keeping us on track. All right. Somebody has to do it. I wanna live in that video. It has everything I like. I wanna live in Olivia.

Nichole: Oh, she's got feathered hair. There's smoke and neon and lame.

Daniel: I think that this is shockingly Polly. Mm-hmm. for its era, , like she is proposing a. A living situation. Yeah. Like she's proposing a nesting partnership with two partners, and she's like, it's practical.

Jessica: It makes me sad because it's giving very much that, , like love triangle plot line in movies or tv where it's like the end of the world. Like, how can we possibly resolve this? And it's like polyamory.

Song: Polyamory, yeah.

Jessica: And it's like the direness and it's just like, actually there is an answer, but this person doesn't know what they, that there is an answer.

, it makes me so sad because it's actually not that complicated.

Laurel: Yeah. It's radical, but practical.

Yeah. But she is positioning it like they're going to be pariahs, like it's a culture shock. Yeah. She's decided that this is going to shock the culture if three people live together

Daniel: and it's kind of like the only way that she can justify it is like by saying that it's by absolute necessity. Mm-hmm. , if I had a time machine and I go back and change it, but now it's too late, there's no going back.

and this is so unique. We are the first per people ever in the world to find ourselves in this situation. We would never choose to. It's like, it's okay if I'm Polly because I didn't, at least I didn't choose it. It just happened to me.

Laurel: Let's ease up on Olivia because she did, she did not have our podcast at that point in time.

She didn't know. Okay. Poor Olivia. Yeah. Yeah. She

Daniel: doesn't have a time machine.

Laurel: Yeah. She didn't have any of the resources that Jessica and her husband and the people have put together on remodeled love.com.

Jessica: Right. Like his, her husband could have used the reluctant poll first course. Joe, they lover at this is very much the target market of that course.

If you look at it, I just feel so bad. 'cause she's like, if I could go back and undo it, it's all that guilt for being, uh, and the question of like, how can you love two people at the same time? Like this deeply philosophical question, how does that question not break your heart? We don't ask that in any other area.

Yeah. Hmm.



Daniel: Like,

is this Polly, is, is this like representing for Difficult Poly for a, for a, a, a, a troubled birth?

You know, she

Jessica: just doesn't know it. Yeah.

Daniel: Yes. Yes.

Laurel: I think

Daniel: so.

Jessica: Um,

you, I wanted to answer your question about the glory wall before we go.

Oh.

Daniel: How could we, how could we forget?

Jessica: Okay. Do you guys know what that is? I'm shocked that other people don't know, but I am finding that it's actually not as popular as I thought.

Daniel: Well, is it a wall with a glory hole in it?

Jessica: With, so, a glory wall, and if you're interested in looking up porn, , to explain this, um, specifically the search would be a Czech glory wall.

So C-Z-E-C-H, like the country like Czech Glory wall. Mm-hmm. And there's a sex club that I think is known for this. , And it's for people with vulvas because you can't stick a vulva in a hole. And so it's, um, a wall where , your upper torso is behind the wall and your lower torso is out. And you could be standing and your upper body is like face down on a massage table. Uh, so people coming up to play with you or doing doggy, um, there's one where it's high up and your legs are up in straps so that it's so high though that it's only for oral. And then there's a regular one where it's at, it's at fucking height and mission in missionary.

And the first time I saw that came across this in porn, you know, when you discover something and your whole body is like, that's for us. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uhhuh, that's for us, new kink unlocked.

and so I've had this on my to-do list for a very, very long time, and my boyfriend built me one for the party.

Laurel: Oh, wow. This, this is

Jessica: true love. So sweet.

Laurel: I it really is. Yeah.

Jessica: I'm googling it now. Wait, can

Laurel: I ask which version can I pro and ask version? So mine would be the

Jessica: like, uh, waist height, missionary Okay.

Style,

Laurel: right.

Jessica: If I had had more room, I would've done. More so that I could have more people behind the wall with me, because I think that'd be fun to be like, holding hands with my friend. , Or something like that. But it, it will just be space for one.

and I have a free use kink for many reasons, but it solves a lot of my issues around wanting to be a slut, but like having a Rubik's cube of a sexuality in my brain. And, and after our episode with Jessica Day Lover, our algorithm was never the same.

Oh, it's true. You're welcome. Actually, my, my, my closing line on stages, I'm sorry. And You're welcome.

Laurel: Beautiful, beautiful.

Daniel: I'm, now, I'm looking at all the furniture in the room. I'm trying to figure out like, what, what can we convert to Well, and so they,

Jessica: uh, sex clubs tend to have these, and some they're nicknamed the pizza oven.

' 'cause that is kind of what it looks like. 'cause it's, it's like leather straps

Laurel: Yeah. When you Google it, it is a lot of like how to construct. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It is. A lot of this is where they're from and then it's a lot of Atlas Obscura talking about the Lenin wall in, you gotta go to PornHub com

Jessica: or a more ethical

Laurel: site and put it in directly.

Song: Oh my God. Oh my God.

Laurel: So we have, we have a couple places to visit in Prague. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't

Daniel: think that there's a, a free use wall there, but

Laurel: not yet. We're just gonna, we're just like,

Daniel: they're just like really confused, just like looking around, like, we're

Jessica: like, where does the pussy go?