Nichole: Daniel accused me of podcasting for my therapist yesterday.

Laurel: Wait, podcasting for your therapist?

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: it just sounded like she was having way too much fun.

Nichole: I was having too much fun with my therapist, so he accused me of,

Laurel: oh, podcasting. I thought, I thought like this whole thing, like poly amateur hour was for your therapist.

Daniel: We're actually part of an experiment.

Nichole: Oh my God. I just need her to understand me. Yeah.

Daniel: What you did leave out is that conversation began with you coming up to me and being like, wasn't that thing that I said to my therapist funny?

Nichole: No, that wasn't not what I said. I said, if I'm not my therapist's funniest client.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Then I don't know what a objectivity is.



Nichole: It started with me going like, did you overhear any of my conversation with my therapist?

Daniel: And then you're like, wasn't it hilarious?

Nichole: I did not say, wasn't it hilarious? Oh my God. But what I was doing was hilarious. So

Laurel: it happened to be hilarious.

Daniel: Uhhuh. Yeah.

Laurel: And it's your own fault if you framed the entire conversation around that.

Daniel: I'm sorry. You should just try and be less funny and less charming.

Face the pain.

Nichole: my therapist has known me for 12 years.

Laurel: I just want everybody to know that I have, in fact been in therapy with Daniel.

Nichole: Ha ha. Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: Do you, would you, would you like to,

Nichole: ha ha

Laurel: would you ha, would you like to retract your accusations?

Daniel: I may be funny in our therapy, but at least I'm not having a good time doing it. Every, every

Laurel: no,

Daniel: every joke is painful for everyone involved.

Laurel: No, no, no. You are explicitly pleased with yourself and your jokes. And on multiple occasions, our therapist was like, I'm not going to listen to your podcast. And Daniel's like, but you could.

Daniel: Well, yeah. Well, what I was really trying to do is to make sure that you got your therapist to listen to the podcast rather than doing it for her live.

Nichole: Oh that.

Daniel: Yeah,

Nichole: that's what it was. Yeah.

Daniel: Okay.

Laurel: you can't pay to give these goods away for free. She's gotta come to us.

Daniel: Yeah. This is part of being a Jewish household.

Laurel: Wow.

Another in other news, I forgot to put on a shirt today.

Daniel: Are you just completely bare chested under your hoodie?

Laurel: Yep.

Daniel: Hot.

Nichole: I do that all the time.

Laurel: Yeah.

it's not intentional today. And definitely like, I don't do it with a zip up.

Nichole: Ooh, no.

Laurel: I do it with a pullover.

Nichole: Yeah. Is that a zip up?

Laurel: It's a zip up.

Daniel: Is it?

Nichole: Oh, no.

Daniel: Is it fear of the, the possibility of a caught nipple or is it the, the fear of just a cold, a little metal.

Laurel: It's cold, but this is. Plastic, so that's not, yeah, entirely an issue.

And probably why I forgot about it.

Daniel: I don't know. Is this my OCD showing? I never put on over garments without undergarments. I am no commando Daniel in all manner of my, body.

I need a layer. I need a little layer of something.

Laurel: You're also like a very layered person in general. And I don't mean complex

Daniel: No, no,

Nichole: no. Just your clothing.

Laurel: Just your clothing. Yeah. You always feel like have at least. Two layers on.

Nichole: And you're always wearing shoes.

Laurel: Yes. So you

Nichole: can

play your saxophone.

Laurel: Yeah. Deep cut.

Nichole: I had a partner the other day. He was like, disappointed I was wearing a bra. he's like, you were wearing a cardigan. I didn't know I could see some nipple. I didn't know if it was a bra or not. And I was like, well, it was. He's like, but can I see you without it?

Laurel: But could you take it off?

Nichole: like, wear the cardigan without, without a bra. The bra. And I was like, it doesn't look right.

Daniel: was this during, uh, dinner in public? Was he like, please remove the bra

Nichole: under your cardigan? No, no, no, no, no, no. This was in the privacy of a home.

Daniel: Okay.

Nichole: Who's home? Dunno.

Daniel: A private residence.

Nichole: Residence.

Daniel: There's another deep

Nichole: cut. Baby.

Daniel: Oh, I feel like we're, we're like in a face off right now. Who's gonna, who's gonna say it? Somebody gonna say it,

Nichole: not Laurel. She's gonna stuff her mouth.

Laurel: Welcome to Polyamory Hour. I'm Nicole.

Daniel: I'm Daniel.

Laurel: And I'm Laurel.

Daniel: I didn't even catch that Laurel like smuggled a bag of chocolate into the recording studio.

Laurel: That's your fault that, yeah, because it's like a fucking rainbow bag. It's a crinkly rain rainbow bag.

Daniel: I just had my eye on the recording equipment, trying to get it running as quick as possible because Nicole is just staring at me going, are you recording?

Nichole: Laurel has a place to be. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. Private residence?

Nichole: No.

Daniel: Oh,

Laurel: a gym.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: For your muscles?

Nichole: Yeah,

Laurel: my Muscle Gym.

Nichole: For your Muscle gym.

Daniel: Your Muscle Gym? we should start like a timer at this point for the rest of the episode. Like Star Trek self-destruct timer.

Laurel: Ooh, yeah.

Daniel: every five minutes, it just, alerts us until the point where Laurel has to leave

Nichole: Isn't that my job?

Daniel: Yes. Are you

Laurel: trying to automate, Nicole?

Nichole: Are you trying to replace me with ai?

Daniel: I guess what I'll do is I won't edit you out saying it like I usually do.

Nichole: I don't know why we're looking at you.

Laurel: Yeah, I'm not prepared. I was the one that forgot I had to show up until you texted me and didn't put a shirt on today.

Nichole: Aw.

Daniel: I'm also slightly like out of it because I just did like my pelvic floor.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: PT session stubs. Do you wanna know, is this the TMI section?

Nichole: I don't know. This feels like Gen X health talk because I think we also talked Yeah. Several episodes ago about how we were like, is this just what we talk about now?

Daniel: Yeah. We're gonna be just telling the stories of going to various, one medical condition only.

Nichole: Yeah. Clinics,

Daniel: hospitals, locations.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: But I did this myself. It was a DIY session.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: and it's not just Gen X because I've been sticking a wand up my butt since I was like 30. Mm-hmm.

Laurel: You are Gen X then.

Daniel: That's true. That's true. That's true. I don't think it's a Exactly.

Nichole: He was a millennial.

Laurel: Yeah. Is that how generations work?

You graduate into them,

Daniel: but I don't think it's like how health conditions work where every generation like has like their set health conditions except for like, you know, the, the, greatest generation, the generation, not the podcast. Mm-hmm. Being like, oh, lung cancer 'cause they're smokers.

Mm-hmm. Like, I don't think that my generation, is pelvic floor tightness? a

Nichole: generational affliction.

Daniel: A generational affliction. Because you know, I grew up with the fear of nuclear apocalypse, so I have to stick a wand up my butt to relax it.

Nichole: I don't know.

Laurel: You've been so clenched for so long.

Daniel: Exactly.

Laurel: I don't know. I feel like that would be every generation's problem then. we each have our own thing to be clenched about.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. We could all use a wand up the butt.

Nichole: Is that what you wanna tell the stewards?

Daniel: Yes, stewards. If you put a wand up your butt or anywhere in proximity to your pelvic floor, or if you are curious about it, write in to Poly Amateur hour@gmail.com.

Nichole: We should clarify, this is like a silicone grade medical wand. Not like a Harry Potter, like just a wand. But

Laurel: we should sell both types with a poly amateur hour logo on them.

Daniel: It's just my kind of cosplay. Yeah, it's like a kink cosplay where I stick a Harry Potter wand at my butt just 'cause I know that it would fucking drive. JK Rowling fucking nuts.

Nichole: She is okay with gayness and queerness. She is not okay with trans women.

Daniel: What a weird fucking boundary.

Nichole: It is a fucking weird boundary. Yes.

Daniel: Or weird prejudice, I should say. I shouldn't, I shouldn't miss fucking, represent. Yeah. Boundaries. It's

Nichole: a, it's a very specific bigotry.

Daniel: And I think it's like that crabs in a fucking barrel thing where like when you're a member of a marginalized class, sometimes you want to punch down to people who are more marginalized in order to fucking have your status.

Laurel: what is her oppressed class?

Daniel: Women,

Laurel: I mean, she is like a turf to a T.

Exactly.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: Like I think some people say turf and they just mean someone who hates trans people in general, but

Daniel: No.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I struggle with the idea that white women are in a press class. Like we just have, we have so much privilege.

And that privilege to vacillate between oppressed and oppressor is like the ultimate privilege.

Daniel: Yes.

Nichole: And I just don't, I don't think millionaires, JK Rowling necessarily deserves my sympathies.

Daniel: I'm not saying that she does, I'm just saying that like she perceives herself as a victim and she would like to assert her level of victimhood above other people's victimhood.

Laurel: this week on? Hurt people. Hurt people.

Daniel: Isn't that all of our fucking segments?

Laurel: Me being the hurt person, hurting other people. Exactly. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: should we do pip eye op first?

Laurel: Yeah. Let's start with pip Eye op.

Daniel: Pip iop, AKA poly in public invasion of pro privacy.

Nichole: This is where we talk about polyamory when it appears in the news, or in our periphery or in public.

When we come, when we stumble upon it in the wild.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or even like a door-to-door polyamory, proselytizer when they come with the good book.

Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Ethical slut and they mm-hmm. They wanna,

Laurel: and their

Daniel: little

Laurel: tie.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Alright. P Eye op.

Daniel: P. Eye op.

Nichole: What's the first one?

Laurel: Pit

Nichole: Hop.

Daniel: let's do what's top of mind first because there's big news in the world of the very narrow Venn diagram overlap of Star Trek content and polyamory.

Nichole: Okay.

Laurel: Was anybody in the scene Jewish? Can we hit our trifecta? I doubt it.

Daniel: Yeah. No, that's gonna be the very last thing that they ever integrate on Star Trek is representing a Jewish character.

Nichole: I mean, they represent plenty of Jewish characters. They're just caricatures. Regi.

Daniel: Oh, sure. But,

Nichole: and that treasure collector that wanted data.

Daniel: Data,

Nichole: data.

Sorry. Wow. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Wow. Sorry, sorry. I say data all fucking day. So

Daniel: you dad named him.



Daniel: on season one, episode three of Star Trek. Star Fleet Academy.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: We have a locker room scene. This is just thrown off in passing.

Where

Laurel: Darum.

Daniel: Deum.

Laurel: Darum Fish, puff Boy,

Nichole: they're getting really lazy with their last names.

Daniel: where Deim Ramey, is talking about one of his sexual exploits and then Caleb Muir, who is kind of our, beefcake hunky protagonist of the show.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: More or less he says, which betrays to me maybe a misunderstanding of what poly means

Laurel: Yeah. 'cause ' if it's a pcu,

Nichole: that's a fucked one.

Laurel: It's weird.

Nichole: It's real weird.

Laurel: It is weird. yeah. family member taboo.

Nichole: Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Daniel: Yeah. This is like, step molecule.

Laurel: You don't know that?

Daniel: I'm just saying that that's the way, like that you would have to position it as pornography.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Ah, yes, yes. Yeah,

Daniel: He says multiple molecule, which I feel like it's just redundant. Maybe like

Laurel: he says that I don't think I even heard what happened.

I know we just watched it like five minutes ago, but I don't,

Nichole: I think bottom line, whatever Caleb Meer thinks poly keel, is that word I don't think it means what you think it means.

Laurel: Caleb.

Daniel: Caleb,

Laurel: if you're listening,

Nichole: if you're listening

Daniel: in your fictional universe,

Nichole: I'm gonna quote another fictional universe, the princess bride

Laurel: from one fictional universe to another,

Nichole: I mean, it's just being slutty. Like it's just Yeah. This is exploits. Yeah.

Daniel: And I think that he's using multiple molecule, like ATM machine,

Nichole: or, the writers are like, Polly is in, let's just get this Bud Word buzzword in. Let's just get it

Laurel: in here. 'cause there's no way we're gonna get poly amateur hour to talk about Star Trek if we don't do this.



Laurel: Is that the first, I mean, it's definitely the first, mention of Polly Kehl. Is it the first time anything in the lake?

Daniel: I believe the word polyamorous is used in connection with, Dr. Flocks in Star Trek Enterprise.

Nichole: They actually do say polyamorous.

Daniel: I think so. I think that they say that it's a polyamorous culture.

Nichole: I mean, poly might not have, that's a relatively poly,

Laurel: yeah.

Daniel: This is the first

Nichole: term,

Daniel: first use of the word poly, and also first incorrect use of the word poly.

Nichole: Yeah. So we're

Daniel: Star Trek

Nichole: word zero for zero so far. Great.

Daniel: I'm hoping they've made some canon that's gonna somehow back this up who, we find out that Durham's planet is polyamorous in structure somehow. Where you find that out.

Nichole: I just think it was a buzzword that they wanted to use. Maybe, I feel like they already had a polyamorous planet with Dr.

Foxx, so it's like this, I don't think it's getting set up to be a polyamorous planet.

Daniel: There can be more than one polyamorous planet.

Nichole: I think the more important thing is that this was a co-ed locker room.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: It felt, it was very, Starship troopers Right.

Daniel: And also though that, he just drops like casual, kind of pansexual,

Nichole: which is refreshing.

Yeah. It's refreshing that it's just, it's just. He's queer and nobody bats an eye and everybody's getting naked in front of each other.

Daniel: Yep.

Nichole: Taking showers like, yeah.

Daniel: And the word poly being used, like in that context, like, just makes me think maybe this is the future that liberals want.

Laurel: Maybe it's the future.

We're poly polyamory is still just as misunderstood.

Nichole: I was gonna say, speaking of misunderstood

Laurel: actually. Well, that is a good segue into Angry Orchards advertisement.

Daniel: This

Nichole: is true. Oh boy. Okay. Yeah, yeah,

Daniel: yeah, yeah, yeah. have y'all seen this?

Nichole: I have not.

Daniel: So what we have here is a static social media, ad of two people toasting with Angry Orchard, hard siters.

Nichole: Okay.

Daniel: And the headline over it with, like having a really pronounced drop shadow too, which makes it look really bad.

having an orchy does not mean you're poly. I guess they're trying to popularize orchy as a slang term for an angry orchard.

Nichole: For an angry orchard orgy

Daniel: or just an angry or.

Or an orgy in an orchard.

Nichole: Okay. Angry Orchard. Just just back up for a second, who is making the claim that if you have an orgy, you are poly?

Laurel: Like five guys I've talked to on Hinge?

Nichole: I

Laurel: have, I have experience with non-monogamy.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Okay. All, all right.

I, you're right. The men are right. I'm wrong.

Daniel: I mean, I think that also they're trying to like just insinuate that there's this slang term that people use for their drink, which they do not.

Nichole: The whole thing is a mess. the photograph is horrible. It's just two people. It's just their hands. Mm-hmm. You don't see them.

The text looks like, I, I don't know where that typeface came from. I, maybe that's their branding typeface. There's a drop shadow. it's a dumb pun, and it is a straw man argument. I hate this. I hate it a lot. I'm surprised you are not more angry about it.

Daniel (2): Well, it's just because I haven't yet revealed the most hilarious part of this.

Usually when people do stuff like this on social media, it's either poly people or like monogamy subreddit people. Mm-hmm. Like jump on board and rip it a new one, either from one angle or another. Right? Mm-hmm. In this case, it was almost completely top to bottom, filled with people who were bringing up the fact that an orchy is actually a trans slang term for an orchiectomy, which is having a testicle removed,

Laurel: which is brilliant. And in that respect, this advertisement was actually very educational for me.

Daniel (2): that is reassuring, I think, to all the people who have

had bottom surgery or testicular cancer and are monogamous and we're worried.

Nichole: Yeah, they're that.

Daniel: Yeah. Oh, thank

Nichole: God.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: That makes me happy that they failed so hard that no one in the, in the advertising room thought maybe I should Google this word that I'm making up.

Laurel: I think it was like a social media marketing intern.

Nichole: thousand percent.

Laurel: Yeah. And I'm like, this is gonna be cute.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: It's gonna, and it's gonna go viral. Like people are gonna love it.

Nichole: And he binged it instead of Googled

Laurel: it. Yeah. Whoops.

Nichole: Whoops.

Laurel: Asked ai.

Nichole: Yeah, he asked chat sheet pt.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: It does strike me as the kind of thing that chat.

GPT would tell me that it, everybody calls Angry Orchard. Siters. Orchy. I hate it so much.

Laurel: That was fun.

Daniel: did it stir up a part of you? Which feels, joyfully, judgy.

Nichole: Why did we get to judge?

Daniel: There's always something on the horizon for us to judge, which is one of the few things that keeps us getting outta bed in the morning, I think.

Nichole: All right.

Daniel: Right.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: next up we've got the update on Neo's polyamorous relationship.

That's right. Which we've discussed in a previous

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Poly and public invasion of PRI privacy.

Nichole: Okay. Yeah.

Laurel: What's going on with Neo now?

Daniel: Well, Neo is, you know, making the, talk show circuit and he's getting questions About his poly. Cool.

Laurel: which is not an incestuous underwater. Planet thing.

Daniel: Oh, what if they thought like a poly was like some kind of biological formation, underwater? It's like something that you do.

Laurel: it's what Odo does with his people.

Daniel: It involves eggs. Right?

Laurel: Ew. No. Moving on.

Nichole: Moving on.

Daniel: I didn't know that. The judging was gonna start that soon.

Neo, you ready?

Nichole: Yeah.

Sherri: You are in a polyamorous relationship. Yes. With three women. Yes. Ne. Alright, now. Alright. Now, Neil, I, I've always wondered, I, I just don't under understand how this works. You've gotta explain to me how does this work with three women? Okay. Um, well, well, what, which part exactly? Don't, don't I, none of it.

I've never, I've never been, I don't like just the day to day stuff. How you decided to get into it.

Daniel: So I liked his reaction when she's like, how does this work? Yeah. Because it's, I fucking hate that. Que everybody hates that question. Is Polly right?

Laurel: Yeah,

Daniel: yeah, yeah.

Laurel: You're like, what do you mean? What are you talking about?

Daniel: would you like me to use props?

that reminds me of when queer couples Yeah. Are around. People are like, oh, who's the man? It's

Nichole: like, who wears the pants?

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. And it's really kind of them like fishing for like sex stuff too. Yeah,

Nichole: absolutely.

Daniel: He's just like, what do you mean? Like he forces her?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: To try and be specific. then I feel like it continues to be positive for like the first part

Nichole: Yeah. I mean, he's saying

Neo: after my very public, very ugly divorce

Sherri: mm-hmm.

Neo: Uh, I made the decision that I was never going to tell another lie to a woman ever again in life.

Sherri: Alright.

Nichole: and so I was honest with all of them and I was like, well, I'm dating these other people. This is what this is. and then I also, I And the audience liked that. He said, I'm not afraid of hard work.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: You know, when the interviewer was like,

Sherri: because it is three women mm-hmm. That seems like a lot of work. Mm-hmm. So it seems like more work than with one.

Neo: I've never been a afraid of hard work. Never had it.

Daniel: I liked that he was emphasizing consent and agency as much as he could within his own weird terms at most points.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Some weird mental gymnastics with that.

Sherri: Okay. Now, so then this is the other thing I, I wonder about, so you have three women, it's all consensual, you've all agreed. Mm-hmm. Can they date other men?

Neo: No.

Sherri: No, and, and no is why?

Neo: No is because, okay, so here's the thing. I've made no request for exclusivity of any of these women. I've never said, if it ain't me, it ain't nothing.

I've never said that. I didn't ask for them to be with me. They, they said they want. To be

Sherri: with

Neo: me. Okay? They gave me their exclusivity, meaning if you gave it to me, it's mine.

Sherri: Alright?

Neo: And that's that. Now, if it was the other way around, I, I, I, I deal in partnership as opposed to ownership. I don't wanna own you, I don't wanna possess you.

I want, I wanna partner in this and we can partner and work it out that way. But if the exclusivity is mine, then it's mine damnit. It ain't giving to nobody. I'm not gave it to me. Is mine what you want?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: That was a lot of like, I don't own anybody, but they're mine.

Laurel: I don't own you, but if you gave me you, then you're mine forever.

Daniel: It's like the, uh, the finders keepers rule of fidelity. Right.



Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: he's like, you know, I didn't ask for their exclusivity, they just gave it to me. And it's like, but what, what have happened if they didn't give it to you?

Nichole: And what does giving it to you look like?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Did they say, by the way, I'm exclusive with you

Laurel: by the way. I pledge allegiance.

Two year cock

Nichole: and the United States of America.

Laurel: It is kind of like not deconstructing the place you came from. Yeah. Quite enough to fully understand the place you've arrived in.

Nichole: Yeah, yeah,

Daniel: yeah.

Laurel: that's what weirds me out about like polyus relationships.

Mm-hmm. I'm like, why did you come this far? To stop there.

Nichole: That is a really, really good point,

Laurel: right? Like,

Nichole: yeah, you're right.

Laurel: it's total, it's one thing to be like, oh yeah. we happen to be in this relationship and none of us happen to be seen anybody else. But to decide that you're like, polyus I don't get it.

Like, why? Yeah. I don't either.

Daniel: I also don't feel like his explanation would hold up under cross-examination.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Emotionally, there was a charge to his response when she asked, so can the women date other men? And he was like, no. it was immediate.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: It like it had mouse trap energy.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And then he builds an explanation in order to justify,

Laurel: to make it seem less sexist.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: Yes. Because I

Nichole: think there was a little bit of an audience reaction.

Laurel: Yeah. Like,

Nichole: huh,

Laurel: wait, a minute's, a double standard

Nichole: what?

Laurel: And then it's like, no, no, no. But they gave it to me.

Nichole: That would've been me in the back.

What the hell

Laurel: In your Dr. Phil voice?

Nichole: Yeah. Whatcha talking about? You're like, Dr. Phil. I'm just a lady in the, in the audience. I just wanna learn about polyamory.

Laurel: Why is Dr. Phil at all the non-monogamy events?

Daniel: Well, is

Nichole: no reason.

Daniel: Why is he, why is he dressed in, in, in drag and being like a Monty Python lady?

Laurel: He's disguised, he doesn't want people to know the sick fascination with the seedy underbelly of

Nichole: He has pigtails, but he still has this beard.

I'm just asking questions. I just wanna learn,

Daniel: Is this what happens when you do like DIY polyamory too though? I wonder whether Neo knew that even what he was aiming for was. Called polyamory when he started this, or he was just like, I wanna date several women.

You know, I

Nichole: don't know that we can answer that question.

Laurel: well, I feel like it happens a lot where people are kind of like doing a thing and then they hear somebody else describe something. Yeah. And they're like, oh, yeah, that sounds like me. But they are only choosing the like parts of it that they liked.

they only remember the parts of the definition that applied to them and not the rest of it.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: And they're like, that's me.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Hello. And now I am a representative.

Nichole: Yeah. The parts of the Bible that's like, every semen is sacred, but blended fabrics are a sin. We forget that.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: yeah. I just thought that was always about, just like how wonderful semen is.

Laurel: Doesn't matter where it spilled.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Whoa.

Nichole: What's next?

Laurel: let's

Do

an ask the amateurs. Yay.



Laurel: I've been in a mix of poly ENM monogamish and fully monogamous relationships over the course of the past 10 plus years. Longer, really. But my first ENM relationships were about 10 years ago when I first started exploring this idea of having multiple sexual partners and then progressing into multiple romantic partners.

Like many, I started out monogamous with a tendency to want to stray, and ENM was my entry point.

Daniel: Is this from Neo?

Laurel: Yeah, I don't label myself anymore. I just don't like paying that much attention to these definitions and lines and differences. I have multiple partners to varying degrees and they all know about each other.

Some know each other, all are cool with it. For me, I think the primary motivation behind wanting multiple connections is that new relationship energy. I like new shiny things and the excitement of sex intimacy and crushing on a new person is so fun. It's pretty much the only time I feel that giddy excitement and infatuation feelings, and I love those highs.

I know NRE is fleeting and I make a point not to let it neglect my other partners, but I definitely chase after it. I'm ashamed to say that after that NRE starts to wane, sometimes I start to lose interest and end the relationship with that person because it's not new and exciting anymore, and I already have other stable partners that take up my time and I just don't want to continue investing time in that relationship.

And now I want to spend that time chasing after something new. I feel shitty about it. I love falling for someone. Then I get bored as the NRE fades after six months to a year. And then I sometimes end up hurting them, or sometimes the relationship just fades out naturally and is, okay, am I a shitty person?

Should I try and stop doing this? What should I do?

Daniel: They must really love our podcast in order to give us the determination, hand us the gavel give a yes or no question. Am I a shitty person?

Nichole: I'm guessing this was anonymously sent to us. It was, yeah. Yeah.

Did we define what NRE is?

Laurel: We didn't

Daniel: Normy corner.

Nichole: Oh, okay. Retroactive normy corner, NRE, new relationship energy. It's the chemicals that happen in your brain when you're in new relationship. You're, , chemicals are overloading and the other person is mirroring that chemical overload.

And so together you are forming a, a, a chemical feedback loop. Yeah. That's like Wow. Can be again, destabilizing.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: Stu, I don't think that you're a shitty person, but I think that you have an opportunity for something to work on, if you decide that this is somehow intrinsically how you are and how you want to be, and that you don't really care about hurting people moving forward, then maybe you have the possibility of becoming a shitty person.

But it sounds like you're self-aware. About this and maybe it's impact on people around you. so I feel like it's an opportunity to kind of unpack your addiction and it is like, you know, we talk about all the time about how NRE is kind of a drug.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: unpack your addiction and dependence on that, and also work on ways to actually sustain and stir up feelings, in relationships that are ongoing.

Just because love isn't like automatically in your face you know, once NRE has begun to fade, just because you're not feeling something that's just overwhelming and welling up in you doesn't mean that it's not possible and it's not there. It's just work. And so,

Nichole: mm-hmm.

Daniel: I would say, the question is maybe less are you.

Bad and more, are you lazy? are you willing to actually put in the work?

Laurel: The thing is when they say the NE fades, and then I already have these other partners here and I don't have the time, I don't wanna invest the energy in somebody else. It, to me, that just sounds like you're polys saturated.

Daniel: Mm

Laurel: mm-hmm. But are addicted to NRE

Daniel: and so you keep this kind of rotation

Laurel: so you keep a Yeah. A rotating fix to satisfy,

Nichole: And I would say, look, I love deciding whether or not people are shitty people, right.

Daniel: I know baby. I know baby.

Nichole: I have a dead to me list. And. I agree with Laurel, that it sounds like if they have these steady relationships they're chasing after the NRE in fleeting ways, I think if you're honest about, Hey, I'm just looking for short term.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I'm just looking for friends with benefits. I am polys saturated. I'm not looking for anything serious or long term or deeply committed. I think that transparency would be okay,

Daniel: Are they still going to get their fix? Are they still going to be able to have that NRE without the suspension of disbelief that they're falling in love and that this is something, you know, that they can tumble into with a, with a great intensity and that it's going to be a lasting,

Nichole: I mean

Daniel: connection

Nichole: If they don't, is that so bad?

Daniel: they seem to say that they, they need it.

Laurel: That, yeah. That seems to be like the driving impetus.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Is like, I want the excitement. An NRE thing. I don't know for this person, but I know it's possible for me to be like, excited and giddy About a connection that isn't going to be like a long-term thing.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: I guess it's easy for me to say because I, don't really give into this a lot anymore, but the whole like, I'm gonna be obsessed with you and spend all of this time with you and we're going to immediately

Nichole: mm-hmm.

Laurel: meld.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. transparently, there's a little bit of a disconnect for me because I don't like NRE.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: It feels destabilizing. Mm-hmm. And, it feels like I'm already an addict and an alcoholic and I don't need that.

Laurel: Right, right, right.

Nichole: Like mind drug. I was just telling a partner the other day that I was very happy with where we were.

Because I wasn't feeling NRE anymore. And like he's definitely not feeling NRE anymore. Yeah. And we're in this much more stable, like Yeah. We don't have to see each other every week. We don't have to like connect every day, but I still trust that he has feelings for me and likes me. Right. Like, I'm not worried about it, but, I understand the need to chase a high

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: That I understand whether it's NRE or whether it is alcohol. Mm-hmm. trying to replicate that first time of getting drunk mm-hmm. Is like my life's mission. Yeah. And it will never, ever happen again because it's a debilitating progressive disease.

Daniel: Which I think is, other part of what I was suggesting is like, you gotta work on this, like an addiction.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: they need to put work into their existing relationships. Sure.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: but also, I don't think it's healthy. I don't think it's good for you Stubbert to have that be the only place where you can feel that joy. it's not good for you or for people around you.

Like you're gonna end up hurting people.

Nichole: Yeah. I mean, we don't know what their other relationships are like.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: We don't know. How secure they feel or how much love is there? I'd like to think that they're stable, loving relationships. I don't know. and if you are chasing the high, the likelihood that you're gonna hurt somebody is very high.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: That's just not everybody's gonna be on the same page, especially if you're not transparent about it.

Laurel: Yeah. I think, like you were saying, Nicole, like being very transparent of like, I'm not really here for this to go anywhere, because if you know that by the time the NRE fades and NRE is limited

Nichole: mm-hmm.

Laurel: That you're, you don't really have time to invest in somebody else.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Then there is already a timer on that relationship.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And if you know that going into it. You should be upfront with people

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: About that. But not only that, if you are the kind of person that gets caught up in the NRE of like, we're gonna start doing things together all the time, and I'm gonna start like en meshing with you in relationship escalator kind of ways.

You need to make very clear, ongoing through the relationship that this doesn't change the kind of dynamic that you're seeking with a person. Because I feel like I've been with this person before.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Laurel: Who is like, like, I don't wanna be serious, but everything about my actions and attitude and behavior says otherwise.

Nichole: Yeah. Yes.

Laurel: And I'm never gonna bring it up again because I feel shame.

Nichole: Uhhuh,

Laurel: or embarrassment or just insecurity around my. Behavior.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And so we're gonna let this progress until it blows up.

Daniel: I can't remember what this is called, but there's a drug that you take that basically blocks your opioid receptors.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And so the opiate, the opiate doesn't have like the effect that it used to. I think if they started doing what you're describing Laurel, and they were like. , Telling their partners that it's not going anywhere and putting this limit down from the get go.

I don't think that they could actually get their, like,

Laurel: their high,

Daniel: their high. That's what they

Laurel: want from it.

Daniel: And maybe that's good. Um,

Nichole: it might be good. They also probably have to prepare for people to not stick around.

Laurel: Oh yeah.

Nichole: Like,

Laurel: yeah.

Nichole: The risk with being transparent and honest is that you're not gonna get what you want.

Laurel: Yes. absolutely. And I think that's like coming back to the question, am I a shitty person?

Nichole: Uhhuh,

Laurel: if you're concealing information from people because you think you're not going to get what you want, that is shitty behavior. That's coercive behavior. It's something that a lot of us take part in on a regular basis.

It's not like incredibly abnormal behavior. But if you're at the point of like. Seeing and acknowledging what you're doing and not changing it, then that's shitty.

Daniel: I think maybe they are reaching out to us, , so that we can be their, like, support in, in not shittiness. Right. We can hold their hands and be like, Hey,

Laurel: maybe don't,

Daniel: maybe don't,

Laurel: maybe don't.

Daniel: I feel like me in my twenties, like this was kind of how I operated. Going from one relationship to another.

Laurel: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Chasing the dragon and I think that maybe. Depending on what the age of this, of this stubbert is, like, maybe this is just their first realization that they're getting diminishing returns, Mm-hmm.

And I don't know if I even really get it anymore. We've talked about this.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Me and you, Laurel.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: but I wonder if the longer versed in polyamory and non-monogamy, the fewer monogamous milestones you have and the fewer like steps on the relationship escalator.

The traditional less relationship escalator you take, the less likelihood you have of NRE. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I feel like. Those firsts in monogamy are so important to monogamous people. introducing the parents, introducing your friends intro, like spending the night for the first time.

Yeah. Like leaving a toothbrush like that kinda shit is like super, super important and means so much.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. It's all coated with other significance.

Nichole: Yes. And in poly and, and non-monogamy. It, it's mostly like, I'm gonna leave a toothbrush here 'cause it's convenient.

Laurel: Yeah. there likely could be a correlation between how much you divest from like mono normative narratives.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: And like, um, 'cause there was a time like when I was doing like serial monogamy.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Um, a lot of it was because like I had this idea in my head of like, oh, well you feel this way because you're in love, not because. Chemicals not because you're having a fucking chemical. Yeah. Psychosexual reaction to shit.

Psychosexual

Nichole: reaction.

Everyone is Patrick Bateman like but like you're taught, like that's what being in love is.

Laurel: Yeah. That's what a relationship is. And so it is that I'm having these feelings suddenly is important.

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: And then if you meet somebody else and you have those feelings, well that's important. Yeah. , And also means that this other relationship isn't good anymore. as I divested from monogamy and the like assumptions about relating and like the philosophies packed into that.

the feeling of NRE it doesn't really carry significance with it. It's just a feeling.

Nichole: It's so interesting 'cause this is how one of my partners describes NRE I didn't know if it was a language barrier issue. Um, because he describes it as this idea that you actually belong with this other person.

Laurel: Mm, yeah.

Nichole: And he keeps explaining to partners. he is committed to his wife.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole (2): You know, and so he's concerned about other people's NRE and them thinking that he's going to leave his wife,

Daniel: I think the way that my particular brand of, , serial monogamy when I was, serial monogamous, which means I only killed one person at a time, like the NRE would be really bright and beautiful and intense because I was like, this is the right person.

Nichole: Yeah,

Daniel: And then at a certain point the switch flips and I'm like, this person is the wrong person.

Nichole: Mm.

Daniel: Yeah. They're wrong for me.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel (2): dichotomy, that kind of very clean, black and white thinking is generally I think what drives a lot of serial monogamy.

Yeah. Like especially when you've got high turnover in your relationships, it, it has to do with that. And maybe some of the same drive could be driving this motor of this high turnover . your temp relationships that you've got going on.

Nichole: You guys were just so much hotter than I was when I was young.

you were just serial monogamy. Like Dayton all the time. Dayton High School, having the sex in high school. I didn't have my first boyfriend until I was like 22. I didn't lose my virginity until I was like 22.

Laurel: Wow.

Daniel: Yeah. I don't know if that means that I was hot, that I was fucking, you know, in

Nichole: high school I could not, I couldn't get a kiss in high school.

Like it was pathetic.

Daniel: You should have lowered your standards like I did

Laurel: that. That is really the trick.

Nichole: Is that okay?

Laurel: It's also dating people that don't go to your high school.

Nichole: Yeah. Ooh.

Laurel: Yeah. Then they don't know.

Nichole: This is my girlfriend in Canada.

All right. Speaking of Canada. Oh shit. Do we have, oh, some hockey smut. Oh, shit. In DM sliders.

Sliders is our segment where we read, , emails that were sent to us, some nice reviews that people have left for us. some mail that people have sent to us.

So this, we explicitly asked for hockey smut. We got one hockey smut. Now we have two hockey smut, so we're gonna read some hockey smut

So first we get. a little note from this, Stu. Hello. Lovely people. I've been listening since your first greatest Jen Bump and have been loving every minute of your lively banter.

Easy laughter, and dirty, dirty minds following your Instagram is one of the strongest temptations I've had to rejoin social media, but I'm still holding strong. Good job, Stewart.

Laurel: Yeah,

Nichole: keep doing it.

Laurel: Don't do it. If you do anything, you can join us on Blue Sky, but don't get on Instagram.

Nichole: Yeah, yeah. Blue Sky is okay.

Laurel: Fuck Z.

Nichole: Okay. I suppose hearing about Nicole's oncological scare has prompted me to finally write in.

Laurel: all it took was a little bit of cancer. Jesus.

Daniel: What if there's somebody out there who thinks that the oncological scare is just a scary uncle?

Nichole: All right. All I can say in the hopes of providing some small amount of comfort is that this is the best time in human history to get cancer.

We have the best treatments we've ever had, the most expertise and the most advanced technology ever. I have every confidence. You'll weather, whatever. This is just fine. Thank you. Stupid. I really,

Laurel: yeah.

Nichole: I appreciate that. Um, because as we know now. We still don't know whether it's cancer or not. so thank you.

I I really, really appreciate that note. I've been listening for months and months, and although I've missed a few episodes, I don't think I've ever heard of a stubbert heating the call to action to write some hockey smut erotica. All right, well, that's an episode you missed. I see. Now that duty falls to me. I hope you enjoy. Well, I'm glad you heated the call.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: Okay.

Laurel: Yeah. And more of you should have and could still,

Daniel: I should say that while I've read the kind note introduction to Nicole previously, this is the first time you've read the hockey smut itself?

Nichole: Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. All right. Should I do my smut voice?

Okay. Community college hockey smut by stupid. Brad's gasping breaths, echoed in the cavernous hall. Sweat dripped down his nose and patterned against the piles of shaved ice.

kicked up by his skates out on the sterile field of ice. The musk of his relentless practice filled the air, uncontested wind sprints up and down the rink, hammering puck after puck into the backboard, crouching, and diving around the net in his full goalie kit. His motivation left him alone on the ice.

Long after the rest of his team had gone home, but it was the drive to win or frustration, he paused in his labors as he pondered that question. The door to the rink slammed open, and Brad Flinched lost so deep in reverie that he was deaf to the earlier noises of arrival. In the privacy of this grand empty place, Brad's mind had strayed to other thoughts.

Thoughts of Evan ever. His better at hockey. The sight of Evan skating faster and farther than Brad had tormented him until he realized the view it afforded him. No amount of baggy uniform could hide the junk in that trunk. It was hard to figure out what was more packed. The contents of his full ride scholarship or the crotch of his pants.

Daniel: Man, that scholarship is packed.

Nichole: Brad was left wide-eyed and speechless as none other than Evan himself skated out to center field. I knew you'd be here late. Evan called out with that arrogant smirk on his face. You just really can't let it go.

That I can always sneak past your defenses. Brad's eyes darted the little hairs on the skin, freshly exposed to the ice standing on end. What are you doing? A solid crack sounded as a puck. Hit the ice. It glided gracefully back and forth under the guidance of Evan's Big Stick. I'm proving to you that I'm right.

I'm the best. He squared up with Brad and held his gaze, but not with his eyes. What? Keep going. Okay, keep going. What do you say Best? Two out of three.

Brad's eyes skipped up and down the heft of it. He gult and nodded Curtley, unable to form words. Evan let him get properly crouched down in guard position. Gave Brad every opportunity to get ready, but when his puck went sailing past him, it still caught Brad totally unaware. The soft poof sound.

Daniel: Nicole loves a soft,

Nichole: announce the puck's contact with the back of the net. With a self satisfied gafa. Evan slowly skated closer. It was pretty cold out there. It didn't seem to matter. What do you think Brad?

Evan looked down at Brad, who now had to crane his neck upward to make eye contact. Am I going to hit with my next shot? Brad couldn't respond. He couldn't breathe. He could not even think in that moment because you see Evan had stalked out onto the ice armed only with his skates and his hockey stick.

Besides that, he was totally nude and now his engorged cock bobbed mere inches from Brad's face. Evan took in Brad's shallow breaths and the lack of words as all the reply he needed. He gently took Brad's chin in his hand, worked his fingers up to the sides of his mouth. He applied pressure and Brad's mouth obediently opened.

Evan was breathy now, but still managed to maintain that infuriating grin as he slowly glided closer on razor sharp skates. Evan's second shot hit the back of the net too. Brad never had a chance.

Wasn't he cold?

Beautiful. Wonderful. Great. Perfect. I love it. I loved it so much. Thank you so much, Stewart.

Daniel: one, I am very appreciative for some finally Porny hockey smut.

Nichole: Yes, yes, yes. Not just some teases.

Daniel: Not that we're not grateful for. We're

Nichole: not. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Daniel: yeah,

Nichole: yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel: But this was the first one that I was actually able to jerk off to. Okay. Maybe that's overstating it. I got like a, I got like a little, I got a little half masked, you know,

Nichole: Uhhuh.

Daniel: But like you, it also is the first one to make me really think of the cold and the sharp skates worried. Me too. I was, I was very, it was like the, the Jewish mother in me, I was like, ah. Be careful. You could put a, you could catch an orie.

Nichole: I just think catch an orie. I think that in all smut there is such a suspension of disbelief. Like you just have to, there's so much you accept.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: In smut and romance novels. Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: Quite frankly,

Laurel: because there's usually people like having sex in all kinds of uncomfortable places and like,

Nichole: like the beach.

Laurel: Like the beach,

Nichole: Yeah. Don't have, don't have sex on the beach. Yeah. You guys, there's sand there

Daniel: Uh, the other thing that I liked about this story is that it, it was kind of structured like an O Henry story or something.

Like where it's got the twist Oh, yeah. Surprise at the end. Like, it's like, it's like O Henry hardcore gay porn.

Laurel: Yeah. I actually, I was not at all anticipating that twist.

Well done.

Nichole: That he was nude. Right? Yeah. That's the twist. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: Not that Brad swallows.

Nichole: What a twist. What

Laurel: a

twist.

Laurel: Couldn't have guessed.

Daniel: Is this insinuating that only bad goalie swallow.

Laurel: He wasn't a bad goalie. He was just distracted.

Nichole: Wait, he is a,

Daniel: I was also wondering how the puck are, say like, like is there a puck machine?

Laurel: No, Evan is hitting them. No.

Daniel: Well, at the end, but at the beginning he's practicing. Right?

Nichole: I watched the entire season of heated rivalry, so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to hockey,

Laurel: is one of them a goalie in that?

Nichole: No. No.

Laurel: Uh,

Daniel: but you know,

Laurel: tan? No.

Daniel: Our one critique here is like, we need more hockey details in order to track what's going on here.

Laurel: I wanna know what happens next. Like, was this just like a power play by Evan? Like, is he just gonna be like a tease and he's just using it to keep Brad under his thumb? Or is like romance developing?

Nichole: See, this is the thing. This is so like our Dr. Phil smut. Mm-hmm. This is the start of an exquisite corpse.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: So ews, take this. What is the next chapter of Brad and Evan?

Daniel: Where is the next goal? Sailing into.

Nichole: Will their couple name be Brevin?

Daniel: How long does it take if you spit the CU on the ice for it to just freeze

Laurel: and then you make like a little C ball out of it?

Nichole: A cuck.

Daniel: I, I would just like to reiterate for stewards who are just joining us.

Laurel: one hour into this episode.

Daniel: Well, who are just joining us, what, 78 episodes? Yeah.

Into our run or whatever this is. we have recently been creating reality, apparently.

Laurel: Oh my God. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel: as we were talking about hockey smut long before the, the sudden zeitgeist of heated rivalry.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: and now we are looking to Emily Wrath as our, political leader for civil disobedience as well.

Nichole: Oh, right. Emily Wrath, author of Pucking around

Daniel: the poly hockey smut book.

Nichole: Uhhuh. It's fucking crazy. How did this happen?

Daniel: We're all looking at Laurel as though she's responsible. Did you dream this

Nichole: Laurel? Can you dream of a certain orange man maybe dying?

Laurel: Are you trying to like make me into like a maturing candidate?

Daniel: we don't want to, you know, attempt your violence addiction that you've spoken to in the past.

Nichole: She's not gonna do it now. She wants to take a nap.

tired to commit violence. I would hurt you, but I'm sleepy. That feels like a hot topic shirt, doesn't it?

Laurel: Oh my God. Yeah. that's our merch,

but it's on the fucking butt wand.