Nichole: Hello baby.

Daniel: Wiggle in. Walk in a giggle inch tall. Make the World go Round, round, round.

Nichole: That's the hottest scene from True Romance.

Laurel: I haven't seen True Romance. True, true Romance.

Nichole: I've never seen Truance either.

Laurel: I haven't seen it since college.

Daniel: is Truance what like the kids have nowadays? Yes. Instead of romance, like, it's like, let me compare my trauma to yours. Yeah. And see if they fit like little puzzle pieces. Oh, sparkle.

Nichole: So beautiful. So what they call trauma bonding, but we know that's not what trauma bonding actually is.

Daniel: This is right.

Nichole: the two people who are experiencing the trauma, the inflict, her and the inflicting.

Daniel: Yes.

Nichole: That's the bond.

Daniel: Yes. Which, that's what romance was in the era when I grew up

Nichole: Inflicted. And inflicted.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel (2): Oh, I had a thing that I forgot about. Oh, what was it? I don't remember, but I did realize this morning that Zoe. My dog She has a Pavlovian response to the sound that your car makes when it's in reverse.

Nichole: When it's in reverse.

Laurel: Yeah. That beeping, the backup beep that it makes.

Daniel: So I'm arriving and she, she expects my arrival.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: What is the response though?

Laurel: She gets excited. Oh, okay. There was someone like parking in there.

Daniel: She, she throws up

Laurel: convulses.

Daniel: I think, I think that, uh, Dashell definitely recognizes the sound of my car too.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Oh yeah.

Daniel: Darla, our little dog, like, doesn't understand that it's me. Even for a few moments after I've entered the house.

Nichole: She's not smart.

Daniel: Our, dog trainer and dog walker and dog sitter swiss army dog, man.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Langdon, uh, said well, oh no, she's smart. She's just really manipulative. She's like, she's like playing dumb.

Nichole: It's a different kind of smart, I guess.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: That's my kind of smart,

Laurel: clever girl.

Daniel: Like, is her just stopping when we're walking and just digging her heels in?

is there an end game to that? It's like, oh, this is how I get treats, or, oh, I don't wanna go home. Or there's something, she wants something.

Laurel: My old dog used to do that she'd just lie down.

Nichole: Darla absolutely

Laurel: does that. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: I think it's just a like, no, we're not going that way. No, thank you. I know which way I wanna go.

And it's not that way.

Daniel: She's a passive resistance dog. She like, is ready to be dragged out by the cops.

Laurel: Yeah,

Daniel: yeah,

Laurel: yeah.

Daniel: And in this, situation, I guess I am the cops.

Laurel: You're the cop, sorry. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Am I manipulative?

Laurel: I think that everybody is,

I think we all manipulate each other.

Mm-hmm. Just to varying degrees.

Daniel: Is it better, worse, or same? Same if somebody is aware that they're manipulating you?

Nichole: worse.

Laurel: I think it's worse because if they're aware that they're doing it and then don't stop doing it.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Then

Nichole: that's intent.

Daniel: Oh, this is a, this is a legal case. There's this is a criminal trial. If

Nichole: they're aware and they don't stop.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: That's intent.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Noted.

Nichole: Why?

Laurel: Oh, I've never, I don't think I've ever seen you look so genuinely, Not concerned. What is the word? Fuck my brain.

Daniel: I mean,

Laurel: maybe

Daniel: later

Laurel: it's still not working. everything else on the hormones feels like really good. Mm-hmm. I am still, I constantly feel like there are words on the tip of my tongue.

Daniel: Yeah. That happens to me too. Maybe, maybe it is the mold,

I believe that the 24 7 dehumidifiers and air filters have helped a little bit.

Nichole: yeah, sure.

Daniel: I have

Laurel: suspicious.

Nichole: What was he suspicious of himself? I did not catch

Daniel: the

Nichole: suspicion.

Daniel: That's the, that's the word. I thought you were just declaring your emotion at that moment.

Nichole: like Hercules going disappoint.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah.

Daniel: I, I have an excuse for being completely out of it. My dad passed away this week and I was there in the room. It was quite the, uh, psychic fireworks spectacle.

Nichole: Laurel's trying not to laugh at this very tender moment that you were describing.

Laurel: Oh my God, something's wrong with me.

Nichole: No, it's not

Because Whatever you're laughing about, I can almost guarantee Steven would've probably laughed too.

Laurel: I was gonna say, and you did it,

Daniel (2): but we won't know until you die and we open your safety deposit box that just says Daniel did it. The, it's just gonna be this safety deposit box that we've discussed on previous episodes is just going to be a list of people who Laurel thinks. Did it. Did

Laurel: it.

Daniel: Yeah.

No. he would appreciate all the darkest of the dark jokes. we were at the, the mortuary today. Mm-hmm. Me and my sister, and we're having him acclimated. Which, I mean, it sounds like it's,

Nichole: what is it? Because what you told me sounded horrific, so

Daniel: I think it's like a giant washing machine that just goes real, real hard.

Laurel: Sorry, sorry.

Daniel: Welcome to Poll Amateur.

Laurel: I'm Nicole, I'm Laurel,

Daniel: I'm Daniel. apparently it like, makes like a much larger quantity of remains than, than if you're cremating somebody

Laurel: is that what you're going for?

Daniel: Yeah. Just like fucking mass. We need

Nichole: volume.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: He

Laurel: What's gonna distribute the most Steven Cubic meter.

Daniel: It also though, makes it like a really fine powder.

Laurel: Okay.

Nichole: Okay.

Daniel: And we're talking with the mortician.

Laurel: Okay. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And. You know, the

Laurel: aquatech?

Daniel: Yeah. She's like, we can divide it up into baggies. It's this really fine powder And then we felt like the blessing of Steven upon us for making the joke about people snorting snorting his remains. Yes. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

We do know that it is more environmentally sound.

Daniel: It is cremation much better. It it's much more environmentally sound. Yeah. When you burn somebody, all of the, the chemicals from the process and like, and

Laurel: all the plastic that's been in your body Yes.

Daniel: Starts

Laurel: burning off

Daniel: and the evil

Laurel: and mm-hmm.

Daniel: I think that he would appreciate, in lieu of a moment of silence.

Like just, a moment of cackling laughter. Yeah. From everyone.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: I think this was what he would, he would like.

Nichole: Yeah,

Daniel: So

I'm going to play the Nicole today.

Nichole: Oh, okay. Great. I would love to take a break.

Daniel: What if I just took all your meetings?

Nichole: Oh my God. Okay. I wanna, I wanna hear how you would talk at my job.

Daniel: So

when you do something about Bogota.

Laurel: What's happening in Bogota?

Daniel: I don't know. There's always something going on in Bogota. This is the one thing that I know about her work. It's like the Bogota office. You've got a Bogota office. I'm like,

Laurel: I do. And something's going on at Bogota

Nichole: and it's not my responsibility.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: But they're trying to make it my responsibility,

Laurel: but somebody needs to do something about that and it's not me.

Daniel: tell me about all the ways I can be Nicole for you today. the way that I was thinking is asking everybody, well, what's our first segment?

Laurel: My

Nichole: own poly, Idaho.

Daniel: That's right.

Nichole: I win

Daniel: it's a very special, my own Polly Idaho. It's his private Los Angeles.

Nichole: That sounds like a movie. His private Los

Laurel: Angeles. Yeah, it does.

Daniel: Yeah. It sounds like my sex dungeon.

Laurel: Your sex dungeon is named Los Angeles.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: anyways.

Daniel: I go to your tar pit?

Nichole: I mean, I think you just say Los Angeles and it's like dirty.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Dirty,

Laurel: filthy.

Daniel: We have a very special guest on today, which is what I'm trying to, a series of slow pitches, which are just, the balls are just hitting you on the foreheads and dropping to the ground.

Laurel: Well, it wasn't a good pitch if it hit me in the forehead.

Daniel: You don't know what I was aiming for.

Nichole: We had Ryan Casada musician activist on with us today, to talk a little bit about Los Angeles polyamory in Los Angeles. sing some songs.

Daniel: This might just be our first ever live musical guest on the podcast.

Laurel: that was great.

Nichole: It was great.

Daniel: So you're all invited to our private Los Angeles

Laurel: to Daniel's sex dungeon in the Tar Pits

Daniel: roll tape.



Nichole (2): What kind of dog do you have?

Ryan: we're not sure He's like 12 pounds and he might have some spaniel, I don't know. We, we don't really know. He's from, he's from the streets. yeah. And has a, has a broken leg Aw. That peeled broken. So

Daniel: has a tattooed tear.

Ryan: Yeah. Basically.

And what's your dog's name? His name's Ali. Here. Lemme see if I can get him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laurel: Oh. Oh my God. Oh, we love Ollie. Oh my God. Hi.

Ryan: This is him.

Laurel: Sweet. My God. Yeah. Little ears

Ryan: Yeah. But he is feisty like the,

Daniel: yeah.

Nichole: Thank you Ollie. Yeah. Thank you Ali. Thank you for your time.

Daniel: so. Thank you very much Right. For coming on the pod.

Laurel: Yeah. Thank you.

Daniel: Yeah. We've been digging your music for a while, oh, thank you to you. , Really, , loving the new album. Thank you. Greetings from Echo Park. we've invited you on for a few different segments. For the kind of like interview wish. Part, I'm, that's my, i my religion by the way. I'm interview. Yeah,

Laurel: yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel: we wanted to do a segment called My Own Poly Idaho, which is all about being poly in, in other places that aren't Portland, Oregon, where we're all based.

Ryan: Oh, okay.

Daniel: It's, And we thought that you would be an amazing person to do this for LA because I feel like you, you just give off like a, an aura of archetypical Los Angelino vibes, mm-hmm.

The song that you are

Ryan: really?

Daniel: Yeah. Oh,

Ryan: that's funny. The, uh, I had, I had someone comments while we were on tour. They were like, you guys have those like California beach vibes to your music? And I was like, we do, like, what's happening? That's

Laurel: really funny. 'cause I would never think California Beach vibes.

Yeah, me neither. But it's like

Daniel: more like California Skate Park vibes.

Laurel: Yeah,

Daniel: yeah,

Ryan: yeah, yeah. It's, it's the east side.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yes, definitely.

Ryan: Because I think when most people think of LA they think of like Beverly Hills, which like, I just hate being there because I'm like. Anti,

Laurel: yeah.

Ryan: Beverly Hills, like Yeah, like Beverly Hills is all like designer clothes and like super polished and your car has to be like, not have one spec of dirt on it.

Laurel: Yeah.

Ryan: And I'm just like, oh God, I hate driving through here.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think you're getting like, both Nicole and I are from like Southern California.

Ryan: Oh, cool.

Laurel: Um, Daniel's like spent a decent amount of time there. So it's like, it's like the California informed perspective of what LA is.

Mm-hmm. Rather than like

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: What people in Nebraska think LA is.

Nichole: Yeah.

Nichole (2): Do

you Remember what any of our questions for my own poly Idaho is?

Laurel: Not really, but we're gonna cheat ' we're gonna ask Nicole's question.

Nichole: Okay, go for it.

Laurel: I'm Laurel and I'm asking Nicole's question, it's like the basic, like, Ryan plus Polly 1 0 1.

Like what was, what's your journey into polyamory? Like, what's it look like now in your life?

Ryan: Sure. My name's Ryan Ada. I use he, him pronouns. And I am an activist and musician among some other things.

I just do things. I create things.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Ryan: and there goes my dog.

Laurel: Perfect.

Ryan: I've had so many relationships where people have gotten mad at me because I express more love to my dog than to them. And they're like, he's obviously your favorite. I'm like, well, like, yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: Obvious.

Ryan: So Laurel is the

Nichole: same. Yes. Zoe.

Ryan: Yeah.

Yeah.

Daniel: We call, we call Zoe, her primary partner. Yeah. And the only one who has like really severe jealousy issues. Yeah, yeah,

Nichole: yeah.

Ryan: Mm. That's true for me too. Yeah.

Yeah. My journey into polyamory is interesting. well, my parents got divorced when I was like five years old. And then after that, my mom was with the same guy for a while, but towards the end of their relationship, like while I was in high school, they started to be polyamorous.

But, I never heard the word polyamory or. Ethical non-monogamy, or any words. Um, and it was not really explained to us. Hmm. They, they would say like, sometimes they would say open relationship yeah. So that was like the first introduction I had and, I won't say too many details about it, but it was definitely like chaotic.

Laurel: Yeah.

Ryan: Mm-hmm. Um, and like, living in the same household was chaotic. So my first introduction, like wasn't, great.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Yeah.

Ryan: and especially 'cause my dad was like not cool with it and like really, just judgemental about it that was like my first introduction and yeah.

And like high school, I was just like in a relationship that it should have been polyamorous and, and like, she should just been like, let's have an open relationship. So like, my first like, relationships were like, pretty wild. And I think that has led me to, uh, like trust issues and stuff which have, which have made polyamory more difficult for me.

Hmm. Um, I would say, I had polyamorous relationships like through my life, but, I was actually trying to do solo polyamory, and then I met, Steph like six months into that, and, like totally fell in love with him.

And we got together and we, we became primary partners like pretty quickly. um, at that time I was dating, someone and, and so was he. So we just like, we've been polyamorous our entire relationship, which started in 2021.

I always feel like new at it still. Like no matter what I'm like, oh God, how did, like, how do we make this work? But like, it's been working for yeah, five years.

and I, uh, I did write a song that is on my. Recent album about a polyamory, which is called He's My Man. it does stem from like a protective, loyal place. Like, okay, like, yeah, this is my partner. And if you mess with him, like I will cut you.

Like if you break his hard, if you do anything mean to him, like, you're gonna have to answer to me. So,

Nichole: from.

It's a feeling I very much identify with, and you've described it as me wielding the sword of wrath.

Daniel: This is true

Nichole: because I'm, I just get so deeply on the, your side or your side when it comes to people fucking with you

Laurel: I love that you have these songs where it's like, oh yeah, there's something like I can like relate to that. I just don't get in 99.99% of media out there. Thank you. So it's very exciting.

Nichole: I wanna return real quick to the feeling of newness, I still feel new for sure, almost a decade later.

And I think that's because each poly dynamic is just gonna be different in its own way. and we also don't have a roadmap, right?

So I just, I really appreciate that. Perspective. 'cause I think it's also okay to feel new. I think that's also something that like, we tend to punish people who are new. Yeah. Yeah. and don't revere them for the new perspectives that they can bring. it's also reflective of like a sense of curiosity.

And I think that feeling of newness is like another way of saying, I'm just constantly curious,

Ryan: I think too, why, why it feels new as well is 'cause like, it is hard to process.

when I talk to my friends sometimes if I'm like feeling jealous or something about my partner being with someone else, they're like, well then why don't you guys just like not do this? Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Ryan: Just like, it's like, great, now I feel worse. Thanks guys. Like,

Nichole: or like you go through a breakup and they're like, yeah, but you have four other boyfriends.

I'm like, yeah, but, but this person

Ryan: I know. It's like, if, one of your friends died, they, they wouldn't say but you have four other friends. Like, why are you sad?

Nichole: Exactly.

Daniel: Can you imagine somebody saying to a monogamous person, you know, who is expressing how they got jealous of their partner?

Well, why do you, why don't you just not do it then?

Laurel: Yeah, yeah,

Ryan: yeah. Why even date?

Laurel: Yeah,

Ryan: just be alone. Just

Laurel: be, yeah. I mean, it's safer. It's safer that way.

Nichole (2): So can you tell us a little bit about, your song, call one 800, I can't remember what the

Laurel: numbers are.

106 6 6

Daniel: 6

Nichole: 9. Six nine. Six nine. Yeah. Yeah. Um, my guess is that it's a reflection of polyamory in Los Angeles. Can you share a little bit with us about your experience with polyamory in Los Angeles?

Ryan: well,

I think part of like, being in the queer community is part of the, the problem is that there's monogamous people that date people and then they like, think that after they break up, they're like, oh no, I still own that person.

Laurel: Yeah.

Ryan: And, and, and still own is like cringey, but like, that's. How it feels.

Laurel: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Ryan: To them. yeah, so, so there's that. And then like, for me, I'm just like, okay, if you like broke up with that person, some time has passed, you know, I, I'm gonna, you know, shoot my shot. and then people like get upset with that.

yeah. So I just like wrote about that experience in LA and like how friends, friends end up dating friends and then people end up getting jealous and if everyone was just like polyamorous, like they, it, it just like wouldn't be so hard, you know?

So, so it's like, it's just a frustration of like, basically at monogamous people that are making rules and then expecting me to act like, I guess like a toxic cis male monogamous.

Yeah.

Laurel: Oh man. Oh,

Daniel: when I was a kid in these weird hippie school rooms that we would have

Laurel: back in my day.

Daniel: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It was the eighties. we'd play this game. Maybe you did this in your classrooms, like preschool or kindergarten where you would make a string web and you would attach like yarn to like all these different points, like as many points as you possibly could within a room.

And then it was, you know, kind of, the game was a little bit like heist lasers, you know, where you trying to get around this, the, the thread.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: That sounds, that's what I think it must be like being queer and poly in la Right? It's like everybody is connected to everybody.

You're trying not to like Yeah. Knock a bunch of chairs over by running into the string.

Nichole: I have

Laurel: great analogy. Great analogy.

Nichole: I have never, ever. Played this, it sounds like a nightmare for the teacher. Yeah. How did they get what No.

Daniel: so is it a nightmare, Ryan,

Ryan: at, at at times that it, it has been a nightmare for sure, and there's been a lot of stress, but, and, you know, just different people crying and stuff. And, and I do wanna say, like, I love, I love all my friends, I love my community. it's just hard to come from like two different places of monogamy versus polyamory and then expect the other people to, you know, go the way that you're going.

Laurel: Portland is just like a weird mecca where You'll throw a stone and hit a queer poly person,

Daniel: hopefully you're not throwing stones.

Laurel: Don't.

Daniel: At queer poly people,

Laurel: please don't throw stones at queer poly people. I do not advocate for this. Mm-hmm. Please don't do that. it's one of the few places that I've lived where it is really like easy and ubiquitous to find people who are embracing polyamory.

But I've also seen pockets of folks who are part of the queer community and very like anti poly sometimes it's like attached to this idea of, Polly is just so, it's like too far, it's too degenerate, it's too out of the box. I'm a normal queer person. Mm-hmm.

Ryan: Yeah, I've definitely seen that too.

I remember, one time I was getting lunch with this, with this friend that I, I lost touch with like five years ago. So I doubt they'll listen to this podcast. Because, uh, they were like on, they were like scrolling on OKQI trying to find someone and they're like, they're scrolling and like all the profiles said like, Polly.

And they're like, why the hell is everyone Polly? Why can't I just find someone that doesn't wanna do this shit? And I'm like, oh man. Okay. Um, well, it's great that people are being upfront about being polyamorous because that person should, should swipe left on all those people, you know?

Yeah, yeah,

Nichole: yeah.

Ryan: Just be like, okay, those people aren't for me, you know?

Nichole: Yeah.

Ryan: I think it's 'cause they, there's like a scarcity mindset, especially like being queer. Like, oh, like, yes, we're, we're taught that there's like only 10% of people, like, might be queer.

Laurel: Yeah.

Ryan: Um, so then you're like, oh, and my God, and now like 50% of these people are polyamorous, so now that cuts that number to even smaller people that might be available for me.

So these people are just like, seeing that and they're being, I'm gonna be alone forever.

Daniel: I think it's also worth noting that we. Polly people, despite what the comedians say, are just incredibly hot. And they're probably jealous, you know that like, yeah. Oh look, all these hot people just want to fuck each other and everybody else

Ryan: and not me.

Laurel: You're right. I should have more empathy.

Daniel: You should have more empathy. Forgo gues people.

I feel like the, the song which we've asked you here to perform is very much like about, you know, this craziness of being poly in Los Angeles and, uh, yeah. And just the queer community in general. And so maybe this is a good time to, uh.

To fire up the old guitar.

Laurel: You're you're doing it. You're

Nichole: so young.

Laurel: Hello fellow kids.

I do wanna encourage people to go, uh, watch your music videos as well. Yes. ' 'cause they are a really nice celebration of queer community in just dark, dark, shitty times. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: get a little slice of joy

Daniel: Oh,

Ryan: thank you.

Daniel: While you listen to this song that Ryan is going to perform, go watch one of the videos with the sound down and then, and then go back and watch it with the sound up, but just so you get the ambiance.

That is a beautiful guitar.

Ryan: I don't remember what key I played in, but

that's part of the problem being in my band is I never actually know what I'm playing and I will randomly change the key

Daniel: everywhere.

Laurel: Yeah.

Ryan: Are you queer in LA and losing your mind hooked up with your ex's ex for the 19th time? Try polyamory. You're just take a nap. Call 1 806 6 6 69 69. And.

All the queers got so much drama. It's burning up my ears. I can't remember who's in luster love and who's throwing beers? Lesbians. And the thems. They're podcasting. The rage circuit. Gay and the trans crowd. I'll kiss the same dj. They're fighting over pussy. They're fighting for a lake. They're fighting 'cause they realize they deep throat at the same dick.

It's 'cause we all know each other and everyone is boned. It's like the L word chart is on a Google doc that we all own. And maybe it's because we live in LA where everyone is hot and we can't help it. That we're horny and there's not that many of us at this point. Can we just embrace that we are sluts some, not trying sledge shame.

It'd just be easier for us. Give polyamory a try today. Call 1 806 6 6 69 69. You're gay to survive being queer in la. Are you queer in LA And losing your mind. Hooked up. Is X for the 20th time, try polyamory. You're just take a nap, call 1 806 6 6 69 69 and download the app.

Laurel: Woo. Yeah, Woo. Yeah,

man, I, I wish that I had that song as a youth, like mm-hmm.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Right.

Ryan: wait, I have, I have one other song for about policing people. Can I play it?

Laurel: Oh, fuck yes. Yes.

Ryan: It's, it's not out yet.

Daniel: Oh my God. Debut

Laurel: Excusey.

Ryan: It's really short.

Laurel: Hell yeah.

Ryan: Okay. short.

Laurel: Hell yeah.

Daniel: Me too.

Ryan: If you wanna call the law, have to tie down your paws and not let you in at the door. You said no one's turned away, but you're bound to get stopped because we don't fuck with cops. We don't fuck with cops. Ain't your border being righteous? Your language is violence. You come down with your list of sins.

I hear it all the time from the row wing honey and queer cops feel worse than them. Yeah. Queer cops feel worse than them. Burn down your closet.

Let be.

We're still waiting for you to quit playing God and for your sirens to stop. We don't fuck with cops. We don't fuck with cops. We don't fuck with cops. We don't fuck with cops. To the transphobic trans guys telling me to be more masculine, look more sis. Not all trans people pass like that and not all queers blend in.

I'll surrender to eyeliner and something design or embrace my feminine. One more hate remark and you'll get blocked. We don't fuck with cops. Yeah. We don't fuck with cops. Yeah, we don't Fuck. Yeah, we don't. Yeah. We.

Laurel: Yes, yes, yes.

Ryan: And and the original lyrics for that song, were, there's another verse that, was about crushing someone's crush. 'cause they were acting like a cop. And then it says, uh, we don't fuck cop.

Laurel: I wish I could love that.

Daniel: I mean, that's definitely the message that I got from it as well. Yes. I feel like that's implicit, you know? Yeah,

Laurel: yeah, yeah.

Nichole: I feel cleansed.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know I needed that today, but yeah.

Nichole: I didn't know either. That was good. Great.

Daniel: maybe this is a good time from music to music.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Turn to some other tunes.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: And ask the age old question.

Daniel: What is it?

Laurel: Is this Polly

Daniel: So we've got a kind of an accidental theme going on on this one, which is one named Alt Pop Musicians from the UK in the very late teens.

Nichole (2): So this is Doty in the middle,

Daniel: I really liked the song. just from a musical standpoint, I thought it was sonically really interesting. And, I thought that it was really sweet too. , I felt that this was a kind of a, a kind loving expression of proposing something that could be really exciting.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Without being super explicit about what she was talking about,

Laurel (2): I do like the ambiguity of it. Mm-hmm. A little bit. 'cause there is like, there's so many songs that are just like, Hey, wanna have sex?

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: Um, and wanna have sex with. Me and my other girlfriend.

Daniel: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Oh, thank God. This is the only way I can actually ask you these questions.

some things about it that read very Polly to me, like, I'll be here while you two, kind of like get along. Mm-hmm. Like, get to know each other and get along over there, which is like a very, I feel like a very poly experience when your partners sort of meet for the first time.

Mm-hmm. And you're like, I'm just hanging out over here. I'm not, I'm not worried about anything, but like, you have the same taste in women. So like,

Nichole: see, that was the part that I totally identified with. Yeah. Because I used that line for like, metas who are nervous to meet me. I'm like, we have the same taste in men.

What? That's already a starting point for a great relationship. I don't know. I, I am suspicious of this song.

Laurel: Oh, okay.

Nichole: because I think she's talking about an ex. let's make a bow with old cut ties.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: I like you. I loved him.

Ryan: I think the song. She likes these two guys. She likes her ex still, and she likes this new guy. It sounds like she just met this new guy, so she doesn't, she doesn't wanna say the L wordy yet.

but she's like, but I'm still like, I'm still into my ex too, and actually like both of you at the same time. she's like, oh, maybe I'm Polly, but she doesn't have the language but she's like, what if all of us were together?

Like that would be cool.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Ryan: Um, so I think she's describing her ideal situation.

Nichole: I think so too. I think I, just I just don't like revisiting exes.

Laurel: Mm.

Nichole: I just like, usually when I break up, Nicole's a real problem.

When I break up with somebody, they're. They're dead to me. I, I don't talk to them ever again. And there's a reason that we broke up, you know, it did not work out. Yeah. And so the idea that I would bring a new partner and an ex together,

Laurel: he's just a ludicrous to you.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: You'd be afraid that whatever Shittiness was associated with the Old Ex would spread onto the New Ex and then they would just became

Nichole: the new ex, the new future ex.

Daniel: The new future ex. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. I do think, like, yeah, she is definitely singing about an ex and the part that like makes me like on board with Ryan's interpretation is, it could be weird, but I think I'm into it

Nichole: yeah.

Laurel: And like, you know, I'm overly passionate.

Nichole: Hmm.

Laurel: Which is sort of like,

Nichole: I have so much love to give.

Laurel: Yeah, exactly. It's exactly what I was thinking. Classic Polly Line.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: I have so much love to give.

Nichole: Okay. So what do you think I.

is this Polly?

Daniel: Is this Polly?

Ryan: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. Yes,

Ryan: yes.

Nichole: Alright,

great.

Daniel: I agree with Ryan. I think that it's, uh, and, and not just 'cause he's a, our guest. Uh, I think that it reflects a loving relationship.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And I just like the song, so I'm also gonna to Yeah. I'm gonna bend the rules. Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: Laurel,

Laurel: I'm gonna go with Yes. yeah. It's the very beginning of someone being like, we could try this weird thing.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: I don't know.

Would it be crazy? Would it be crazy if we all dated each other?

Nichole: Uhhuh.

Laurel: That's what it feels like to me.

Nichole: I'm gonna say this too,

Laurel: even though you're staunchly against getting back together with your ex,

Nichole: I'm gonna say yes, even though this is something I would never fucking do.

Daniel: Next up we've got another one named. Oh yeah. Al Alt Pop Musician from the UK from like around 2017.

Mika with,

It's my house.

Ryan: with that other song, they're like starting, they're like entry level. So it kind of makes me feel like further along into it.

Daniel: this one to me sounded like somebody who was hosting one, and it was, felt like an, an anthem of just like inclusive love through the metaphor of this house.

it positioned non-monogamy or polyamory in this situation as something that was angering and frightening. The neighbors and the cops are coming. it was about community and music and sex. I, I just really liked the song. I thought it was really joyful.

Laurel: You would,

Daniel: what are you upset that I. That I hate cops.

Nichole: Oh,

it, I was con Do you see it now? I just see it now. I I was confused.

I didn't pick up on, the neighbors want us all to leave.

No, no.

Now I get it. I was really gonna be, I was really interested in like how you were gonna position this as Polly and I was waiting for the red string Daniel, but no, it's right there.

Daniel: There's also, and the bed might not be long enough.

Nichole: Yes. Yeah. Which

Daniel: is weird if they're all like, sleeping sideways on the bed, I guess.

I don't know. there is, they're

Nichole: all really tall.

Daniel (2): They're all really tall. It might not be long enough for my, my new WNBA girlfriend.

Nichole: now I get it. Okay.

Laurel: Well, case was made to Nicole. Done and done. Laurel, what do you think? I think this is much more abstract Yeah.

You can't absolutely contain my heart. but also like, my more like, generous interpretation of the like, like you can come over whenever you want and bring your best friend too is sort of like,

like an open door policy. Mm-hmm. Like like we are in relationship and bring whomever you want.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: Bring your love into this.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Ryan: when I first listened to it, it sounded like a hippie commune. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: What do you, what do you have against hippies?

Ryan: No, nothing. I, I, I lived at a commune, when I was 20 that was like, um, also a polyamorous experience, uh, for me. but it, it was like, it was fun and it was like a really, nourishing environment.

it, it was interesting 'cause we, it was in the middle of nowhere, so we didn't have, we couldn't even get a wifi signal and we had to drive like three miles down the hill to be able to use our cell phones. So we made a lot of music and hung out outside a lot and just like did a bunch of activities like that.

So it was very, it was a very like bonding, communal experience, which I really loved. And so the song really reminded me of that.

Daniel: I'm really glad that it went that direction and not. Like, yeah. And I was, uh, inducted into a cult Yeah. When I was 20 years old. This brings up a lot of memories about the sacrifices that we made.

Yeah.

Ryan: I mean, I didn't, I didn't even have a key, like they never locked this house. Like I had all my stuff in there, but like there's no key.

Laurel: Well,

Ryan: yeah. And there's just like, the door's always open, like whoever's coming is coming.

Daniel: Yeah. I mean, I feel like there's just a lot of little hints that are dropped throughout this song. Yeah. That make it, like, for me, add up to a big, nice abstract portrait of a very inclusive poly, like the house is kind of a metaphor for the poly. It's a little weird that he owns it, but, you know, whatever.

Nichole: Someone's gotta own it.

Laurel: This is very much, um, like poly vibes for me, where it's like the spirit of polyamory. Mm-hmm. Even if it's not necessarily like the logistical practice of it,

Daniel: So is it Polly?

Ryan: if you interpret it that way, then yes, it is

Laurel: wiser. Words have never been spoken.

Daniel: You know, I feel like that is a very Mika thing to say.

Laurel: Yeah,

Ryan: do you know? Uh, it's a Mark. It's a T-Rex, mark Bolen. He has a song that says, deep in my heart, there's a house that could hold just about everyone. And that that this song by Mika sounds like the, the house he's talking about is Oh, yeah. His heart.

Daniel: Yes.

Nichole: Yeah,

Ryan: yeah.

Daniel: Laurel?

Laurel: Yeah, I'm gonna go on, uh, on Vibes.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: I'm gonna go Pollion vibes.

Nichole: Yeah. I mean, I think now that I read the lyrics, um, it feels more Polly to me.

Daniel: I'm gonna say yes. Surprising. No one. I picked two songs that I just ended up really liking when I listened to them.

Yeah. And I'm like,

Nichole: yeah,

Daniel: to the front of the line and yes, you're Polly,

Laurel: boop, boop. It just boop, that song. Did it. Thank you, Ryan.

Daniel: Thank you so much for coming on

Ryan: Of course.

Nichole: tell Ollie I love him, um, and that, um, he has a, like huge piece of my heart and he can, he can bark for me like any day.

Daniel: When you say a dog has a piece of your heart, I just imagine it, you know, like what we get at the special fancy dog stores where it's like, here's Bison heart.

Laurel: Aw. Aw. And Ollie's face is just covered in blood.

Romantic.

Ugh. That was lovely and fun and I liked it.

Daniel: I wanna have more musicians on and not just because I am exhausted from unpaid jingle box labor.

Laurel: Somebody pay Daniel.

Daniel: No, I I,

Laurel: somebody's gotta deal with this Daniel situation.

Nichole: That's what I talk about at work.

Daniel: no, because, because, uh, we've been faking it that we're like a variety show this whole time. When if we were a real variety show, we would have musical guests and. Ventriloquist.

Nichole: Oh, this is just a long con for you to get Peter back on the podcast.

Oh,

Laurel: we gotta, we gotta bury that doll.

Nichole: I know, but I'm really afraid it's gonna show up on the underside of one of our cars.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. That, that, honestly, it's like Meyer and Revenge is what keeps me from destroying it.

Nichole: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's going to Cape fear us for sure.

Daniel: We do have. One of our flagship classic segments lined up to close out the day.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Yay.

Daniel: You guys ready?

Laurel: Ready? I'm

Nichole: so ready.

Daniel: we have, and ask the amateurs.

Nichole: You can e email us your questions at Poly Amateur hour@gmail.com. you can submit them anonymously@polyamateurhour.com, or you can hit us up on Blue Sky at Poly Amateur.

I'm sure Instagram or whatever. Anyways. All right, Hi gang. Do men suck at this question mark? Question mark. Question mark.

Daniel: Yes.

Nichole: I'm wondering if I need to hang up the towel on polyamory. I'm a straight cis woman on the spectrum and low on spoons.

I live in a small mountain town so I could throw a rock and hit an attractive athletic guy who cares about the environment and who's probably open to polyamory or some form of form of nm. Great.

Daniel: Now, while we don't want you to throw rocks at queer poly people, maybe throw rocks at straight guys in

Nichole: cishet straight men.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah,

Nichole: yeah.

Daniel: In rural towns.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: over the last six years, I've dated three men. The relationships all ended for the same reason. I got tired of being the one who had to do all the emotional labor. Y'all, these dudes be out here with the emotional intelligence of a stump. They won't read a relationship book, but they will read about some jackass living in a bus in the woods, are allergic to therapy and have issues from childhood. They're actively avoiding and making my problem. I don't want to be a therapy mommy to these people, let alone multiples of them. I just want to date adults. These guys aren't bad or toxic or anything. I loved them. They're great guys. I'm still friends with them, but dating them drained me rather than fulfilled me.

I thought I might have a bad picker, but I don't think so. I have a wonderful relationship with my husband. He's a darling short king who spent a lot of time unpacking from patriarchy, reads, polyamory books, and even cares about the collective. Oh, that sounds like someone I know. I think it might be because he's got a hardcore leftist family, and a feminist mom

Daniel: also sounds like somebody you know.

Yeah.

Nichole: At any rate, he's not afraid to learn about his feelings, but is he rare?

Daniel: Is this my secret wife?

Nichole: Oh, from small mountain town. Is this where you're spending your time?

Daniel: Yeah, I'm not. I'm not actually going to San Francisco for work. Yeah. I'm just,

Nichole: maybe I fooled myself into thinking that because these guys were polyamorous, they'd be more interested in emotional and relational skills.

You know, the skills you need to navigate multiple relationships. I hear monogamous women online discussing how much it sucks to date men, but is anybody in the polyamory world talking about it? Are the poly am guys. Okay. I'm trying to invest more in my female and non-binary friendships, and I'm getting more involved in my community to meet emotional needs.

But I admit I am a little sad. I want to date and do the polyamory thing, but I think it would be too much work to vet out the Stunted fellows. I don't know if this is a problem of living in a small outdoorsy community or if it's bigger than that. What do y'all think? Still trying to be a relationship.

Anarchist at heart. Just looking at all the three goals and sighing, Aw, sincerely bummed out ski bum.

Daniel: I would like to take that as a reference to us as a three goal, but maybe she is actually seeing real three goals out of her window in Cozy Mountain Town.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: one, like Yeah, it's not like a polyamory problem. It's like a patriarchy problem. Mm-hmm. And that we taught men that they don't have to. Feelings.

Daniel: I like the omission of the word there. Really? Yeah. Drew drove the point home.

Nichole: It's true.

Laurel: like, once again, we are rather privileged here in, Portland gon where we have a larger concentration of queer people, polyamorous people, and, men who are at least trying to feelings.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: and, uh, a lot of 'em are bad at it.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: and like, we're not gonna be able to undo that in our lifetime, which I'm trying to like put the reins on my, the mis injury buried deep within me.

because it is a patriarchy problem. It's not like a man problem,

Daniel: and the mery isn't buried all that deep.

Laurel: No, it's right on the surface.

it's my old line of just like, don't have expectations of these people. It seems like our stu is going into the situations of wanting something or expecting something very particular Yeah.

From these people. I think it's totally okay to want deep, meaningful relationships, but the vast majority of people that you meet in life are not gonna be able to offer you that.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: like you don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, you can continue date as long as you're constantly reaffirming your boundaries with yourself mm-hmm. Of being like, I'm not gonna take care of this person. I'm not gonna be their therapist. And there's only so much like emotional labor I'm gonna put into this and like being comfortable with, plateauing the relationship where it needs to plateau.

Daniel: I also think that maybe being open to different configurations of relationships as far as perhaps entertaining the idea of having distance relationships, because I do think a big part of this is the mountain town.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: it's just like how, hater of dogs was always complaining about the difficulty of meeting poly people in his slightly smaller, like mountain town.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: And imagine if you're looking for also evolved men

Laurel: Yeah. I think this is the big thing about like mountain town environments where a lot of people are like, oh yeah, well you're like outdoorsy and environmentally woke or whatever, but if you like, spend time with those communities Yeah.

And people, they're dirt bags.

Nichole: Oh my God.

Laurel: But they are, they are the people who think that reading, whatever that fucking novel is, is like a spiritual awakening.

Daniel: There's so many

Nichole: Into the wild.

Laurel: Into the wild. Thank you. Yeah. and like this idea that because like, you can shred the nar that you are closer to nature.

Daniel: the foundational question here, do men suck

Laurel: at this,

Daniel: at this One, I do think that like men who are queer or bi are a little bit better at this, or at least maybe men who, are steeped in queer culture, even if they're like straight, if they live in a city. Mm-hmm. And we're taught by people who know,

Nichole: what I think this person is asking for. Is, do you have experience with this?

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Do you have your own experience with men sucking at this? Mm-hmm. And so I do wanna share like, my experience, 'cause that's all I can speak to. because I have really only dated men.

I haven't dated a lot of queer men.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Quite honestly. with the exception of my husband.

Yeah. Obviously.

Daniel: yeah. And that's the one that's lasted the longest,

Nichole: has lasted. Yes. And,

Daniel: and probably as far as like, foundational skills around navigating polyamory has the most, I don't know, does it have something to do with the queerness?

Nichole: I dunno. It, it could, you're also, you've got a decade on some of these people.

You're old, you're old, it's old, you're ancient, that you're just like so decrepit and like that, that usually does

Laurel: not help.

Nichole: my experience of dating. cis, straight men, it is a patriarchy problem.

Yeah. Like they're, they're just, they're not taught, in the polyamorous context, I would say the straight men that have not worked out for me, have been either unwilling to do the work and I thought that like my doing the work would inspire them to do the work.

Yeah. that didn't happen. That was stupid. Um, or we're like operating in this like, monogamous frame.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: it's been my experience that straight men expect me to one, want them immediately.

Laurel: Mm.

Nichole: Two, like them just talking at me for an entire evening is going to automatically make a second date. and they are flummoxed when I don't want a second date. I don't know if you've experienced that laurel, um, with queer people, like not really picking up the vibe of like, what's actually happening and more living in their own, fantasy of what's happening.

Laurel: Yes. so one time I was at the hairdresser and there was like, uh, another hairdresser and her client like next to me talking. Mm-hmm. They're both straight. They're talking about how bad their dates were, and then the client just goes, she's like, I just wish I were gay.

It would be so much easier. I just blurted out bullshit.

That is truly something. Only someone who's never dated a woman would say. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Um,

Daniel: but is it a different kind of hard,

Laurel: it's a different kind of hard. So here's the thing, I've only been on a date with one woman who didn't ask me any questions.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: And maybe that's just like a numbers thing. 'cause I've been on more dates with men than I have been with women. but in general, women off the bat are much more, interested in you. Mm-hmm. And I do think that's a patriarchy problem. Like

Nichole: yeah. I think we're predisposed to like, make it all about you and not ourselves.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah.

Nichole: You know?

Laurel: women also have a litany of issues that make them difficult to date. Our stu mentioned like, I don't think it's my people picker. That's off because I'm married to a wonderful person. Mm-hmm. And I think that that's not proof that your people picker isn't off. Yeah. Because one, they can find you like that good person, maybe that good person found you, maybe you didn't find them, maybe they found you.

but also like, you know, broken clock is right twice a day our relationship, Daniel is a great example of that. I have a track record of like picking a certain kind of person that plays into certain, like, issues of my own.

Yeah. You are not that person, but I pick them before you, I've picked them during you and I will continue to pick them. Probably like, I try not to, but

Daniel: you picked them inside me

Laurel: and I pick them inside of you. Oh God. But, and this's also, so, you know, I say this like my experience like, uh, dating women or like gender non-conforming folks or trans people, like.

I definitely have a type. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: And that type is Dilla.

it, it is hard to like Yeah. Make demonstrative statements about the state of sexes in relationships. Mm-hmm. When we all pick certain types of people and those type of people tend to come with a certain set of problems

at the end.

Daniel: I, I wanna, I wanna resurface my one piece of helpful advice that I've ever had on this podcast date outside of your town. Like a lot of poly people are really open to distance relationships because that's the kind of thing that can fit in their life.

Laurel: true.

emotional intelligence and how that relates to like the emotional labor that you're asking other people to do. You are looking at me so intensely right now.

Daniel: I'm just, I'm sorry. I'm just weird.

Laurel: Um, a lot of that is learned through constant, like inner relationship with people. Yes. Mm-hmm. And that's hard to get out of mountain dirt bags because a lot of their, like hobbies and activities are around sport you're not getting to know someone, you're not interacting with people when you go and sport together.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Unless it's mini golf.

Laurel: And this is a mini golf, then you're learning way too fucking much, and you gotta get the hell out of there.

Nichole: Did we help?

Laurel: Did we do it?

Daniel: Do you wanna do it?

Laurel: Daniel did it.