Nichole: I had a dream, I believe it was you, Daniel.

It could have been somebody else,

Laurel: could have been anybody.

Daniel: that's the way that she generally feels about this relationship.

Nichole: That's what polyamory is, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just interchangeable.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Like taking the Lego head off of one Lego person and putting it on the other, yeah.

Yeah.

Laurel: Uh, simultaneous, consensual, interchangeable relationships.

Nichole: Simultaneous,

Laurel: consensual, interchangeable

Nichole: ski.

Okay. Um, we just need trauma at the end of it, so it's skirt.

Daniel: there's, there's always trauma at the end of it.

Nichole: So I have these kinds of dreams where I am with somebody. I either commit a major crime or I am with somebody who commits a major crime, and I am just waiting for the FBI to come and discover.

I had one of those dreams last night and it was really like panicky but whomever I was with, it was either you or an interchangeable person. Daniel, was like, okay, well now we can take FMLA and just go on a road trip. family Medical Leave Act where you get paid.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Uhhuh

Laurel: being a fugitive, I think counts for FMLA,

Nichole: but do you guys have those kinds of stress dreams?

Laurel: I don't know if I have done a crime and I have, I'm being chased, but I do have like, I'm being pursued dreams.

Nichole: Okay. I think it's this particularly committing a crime.

and lying and wait to be found out.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Well that's your mistake. Shouldn't lie and wait.

Nichole: I run.

Daniel: Yeah, you take some FMLA. I used to have those types of dreams when I read very specific types of books.

Nichole: Patricia Highsmith.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: Talented Mr. Ripley.

Daniel: Yes.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Yeah. So for, for those who don't know, Once upon a time Dos Ky wrote Crime and Punishment, which is about a guy who just murders an old lady at the beginning and then spends the rest of the novel in, , fear, self-loathing, guilt, but also being pursued. And Patricia Highsmith my favorite, noirish, writer, she just decided, what if That's a whole genre.

It's just like, it's just like dread books

Nichole: Yeah. Strangers on the train is the same.

Daniel: Yeah,

Nichole: it's the same that genre.

Laurel: do you think that's how Republicans feel?

Nichole: No.

Laurel: All the time.

Just like I'm about to get caught.

Nichole: Oh,

Daniel: yeah. But for not the things that we think,

Laurel: For not the pedophilia.

Daniel: Yeah. Or the, murder or kidnapping

Laurel: What do they think we're gonna catch 'em for? Finally?

Daniel: being gay.

Laurel: That's true.

Yeah.

Daniel: but yeah, the, that's the context in which I would have those dreams is like, I would read, one of my pleasantly scary books. Yeah. And I would have an unpleasantly scary dream.

Nichole: I just, don't dunno what it says about me. 'cause it is, it's something that happens a lot.

Laurel: You, you think you've done something bad.

Nichole: I think I've done something bad. You

Laurel: think you've done a bad thing? What is it? What crime did you commit?

Nichole: The way that you're looking at me makes it look like, you know what I did?

Laurel: Maybe I did, what did

Nichole: I do?

Daniel: Didn't you also have a dream last night that I was an arsonist?

Nichole: that was the dream, is that whomever it was, it was either you or somebody else put these poems in a jar Like had a piece of fabric out of the jar, lit that on fire, threw it into the house.

Laurel: what a kind of Molotov cocktail. Just a jar of poetry.

Nichole: See, I feel like if you were gonna throw a Molotov cocktail, it would be that.

Daniel: Oh yeah. It's, it would be a, a super pretentious bombing.

Nichole: Yes,

Laurel: exactly. All signs point to you.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: There were some Dostoevsky quotes in there too.

Nichole: See, this is getting too meta and Laurel is yawning about it.

Laurel: It's getting so weird. I'm falling asleep.

Daniel: That happens during sex sometimes.

Laurel: I fall asleep all the time.

Nichole: Have you fallen asleep during sex?

Laurel: Definitely.

Nichole: I'm fascinated. Do you have a story? Um,

Laurel: I don't know. I fell asleep and then he was mad at me.

Nichole: So a short story.

Laurel: That's probably how that went.

Daniel: How did you spin it when he was mad at you? Were you like, I just feel so comfortable.

Nichole: I'm so comfortable with you.

Laurel: Sorry, I'm tired. This is what you get for waiting until nighttime.

Nichole: Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour.

Laurel: I'm Laurel.

Daniel: I'm Daniel.

Nichole: I'm Nicole. Daniel was doing a little standoff.

Laurel: I couldn't tell what he wanted.

Daniel: it looked like I was either wanting to say Welcome to Poly amateur Hour, or I was trying to fart.

Laurel: Yeah, I've been farting a lot.

Nichole: is that like babies?

What? Like, do like, don't they smile when they pass gas?

Daniel: I was thinking, I was like looking like I was tr gonna fart. 'cause I was leaning forward.

Nichole: you'd lean to the side.

Daniel: Mm. It's my tell

Laurel: checks out. Yeah.

Nichole: We've lived together for so long and I've known you for so, and Laurel has known you for so long.

We absolutely know.

Daniel: me and Laurel like stayed out late the other night. Mm-hmm. And we went to a bar and had some night cheese.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: And I have just, it's just like throwing a cherry bomb in the fucking pipes, you know, in the toilet everything's been completely,

Nichole: gas.

Terrific.

Laurel: Night cheese

Nichole: you better use that clip.

Daniel: I was, yeah.

Nichole: You were already part planning on it. That

Daniel: was part of the plan

Nichole: are you coming up with a segue?

Daniel: speaking of fart.

A lot of my time is, is taken up by farting and so it's hard to schedule time with my partners.

Laurel: Oh, oh.

Daniel: I prefer to fart alone. No,

Laurel: you don't. No, you don't. No. You absolutely do not.

Daniel: Imagine how much time I'm spending farting if it's only a fraction of the farting that you witness,

Laurel: mm-hmm. Are

Nichole: you trying to segue into ask the amateurs?

Daniel: I am.

Laurel: Yeah. If you'd like to ask us a question, which you should, you can either log on to our website, you don't have to log on, you just go to, it should go to our website.

Daniel: There's a retinal scan.

Laurel: There's a rectal scan.

Daniel: Oh no. You have to put on the, uh, the AI powered cock ring.

Laurel: Oh, yeah.

firm tech or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. uh, poly amateur hour.com, you can submit your questions anonymously on our form right there.

You can email us at poly amateur hour@gmail.com, or you can DM us on Instagram or Blue Sky at poly amateur hour.

All right. Hi gang. Hi. Hey. Long time listener. First time Stu. You're already a stu. You don't have to write in to be a stu, but

Nichole: yeah. If you're a listener, you're a stu.

Laurel: yeah. But now you're like a special stu. Now we like you even more. Mm-hmm. I'm currently struggling with making time for bedroom activities with my nesting partner. I work overnights and find it borderline impossible for us to have a time.

One of us isn't too tired and my days off tend to be reserved for other partners. I don't live with help. Also, I found you all from your priority one on Greatest Gen Odo Drop, and you've become my new favorite podcast. Keep it up from our gender fluid Stubbert from Vermont.

Nichole: Thanks, Stu.

Daniel: Thanks Stu.

Laurel: Thanks, Stu.

Now you gotta pull that Odo drop.

Daniel: I, I'd like to bring up the fact that you can't request, it's like you can't go to like Burger King and order off the In-N-Out secret menu, you can't write into Poly Amateur Hour and ask for drops from greatest gen. what I will do though is I will make a special poly amateur hour odo drop.

Laurel: Okay.

Daniel: I would like to provide you with a metaphor that you can use for this though, Stu, which I constantly use whenever there is a situation where some people are just like missing each other with two different schedules.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: You gotta go watch the 1980s film Lady Hawk.

Laurel: Oh God.

Daniel: Where Michelle Pfeiffer is a hawk by day and Rutger. Hower is a wolf by night. Oh my

Laurel: God.

Daniel: If some, if someone, and they only ever see each other at Duskin, at dawn,

Laurel: if someone can tell me how many times has been brought up in the podcast, please let me know because I don't know if you just bring it up all the time.

And I've heard it a lot and it's never made it onto the podcast. Or if there's like five episodes where we talk about Lady Hawk,

Nichole: I know. I don't know.

Laurel: I don't know. I

Nichole: don't know.

Daniel: I don't think, I don't think that we've ever potted lady honk. I just think that it's something that

Laurel: you think about all the time.

You think about it a lot.

Daniel: I do.

Laurel: Well, go watch Lady Hawk. That'll fix all of your problems. We're really full of advice today.

Daniel: I would say first, like maybe try and make some time for one of the partners that you usually see on the weekends during the weekdays so that you can dedicate some time to your nesting partner.

On the weekends when you theoretically will have some time

Laurel: Yeah. if you're saving all of your time where you're not tired for non nesting partners, you're not really investing in your nesting partnership. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. and maybe that's fine. Like maybe where you guys are at is good or comfortable, you're both comfortable with it.

Moving more into like a non-sexual relationship But if you really want to invest in like maintaining. Like a sexual dynamic relationship with this person. You have to make time for them, like on your days off.

Nichole: one of the underlying questions here is like, how do you keep your nesting partnership alive and fun?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Daniel and I make a point to go on dates.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Like, we have date nights where we dress up, we go out, right?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: and because we're old and we get tired easily, we have sex before we go out.

Nichole: always have sex before dinner.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: You don't wanna be right Jess. That like

Laurel: Laurel doesn't fall asleep during it.

Nichole: Exactly.

Daniel: Yeah. I mean that's why me and Nicole have sex before dinner is 'cause we, we wanna know like that I'm

Laurel: awake.

Nichole: That you're awake,

Daniel: you're awake.

Nichole: Yeah, absolutely. And when we all live together, we need you to hear us. But this person is asking a quantity question.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: It should be a quality question.

Yeah. Because nesting partnership, you're just like, okay, well I see them all the time. So like they don't have to be special. These times don't have to be special. Yeah. they do have to be special. You do need to invest. Exactly like what you were saying, Laurel. the scheduling part. It is just an added layer of difficulty.

Laurel: Yeah,

Daniel: it sounds like maybe they are not scheduling that much, even in the little interstices between their schedules mm-hmm. During the work week. Mm-hmm. Because maybe they are like, oh, we just end up being too tired. But I think like if you make plans

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Your body may rise to the occasion

Laurel: Oh yeah.

Daniel: if you have that expectation. Mm-hmm. So regardless of if you anticipate being tired or not, make the plans anyway and make sex the very first part of those plans,

Nichole: And doesn't have to be like a date night. Could be a date day.

Nichole: Laurel, a long time ago we talked about, Not reserving days for people.

Laurel: Oh, yeah.

Nichole: You know?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: And like I started to do that.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: it's because this person is like going through like major life transitions.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: and this just happened to be like the regular day that we could see each other. But now I'm like, I'm starting to see other people and I feel like I'm gonna have to have this conversation

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: With the regular Saturday person of like, actually

Laurel: Yep.

Nichole: I don't know if I can do that anymore.

Laurel: Yeah. try to never like take for granted. Like every week I am scheduling something, even though it tends to fall in regular patterns.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: typically you guys spend Friday nights together.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: This week you're spending Saturday night together.

Laurel: This is true. Yeah.

Daniel: And I'm still fucking resenting

Laurel: it. You were pissed about it. Just

Daniel: fucking Christ.

Nichole: And

Laurel: Well, it's funny 'cause when I made plans for Friday, I had that thought in the back of my head of like, oh, well Daniel and I usually spend time together.

And I was like, it's not Daniel's night.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And we'll figure it out.

Daniel's night and the feeling's. Right.

Daniel: And I know this is like. Probably too specific and weird and, uh, slutty of advice, but have you considered group sex?

This is actually kind of a, a thing. There's, you know, there's somebody that, you know, I've been, , dating a little bit now and then, and Laurel and I have been dating together.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel (2): And because the week is so busy, we've ended up having multiple, group dates and like I keep putting off the one on one dates with this, person.

I feel bad about it. Max, I'd like to see you sometime soon, but, maybe group sex is overstating it when there is a kitchen table dynamic. Mm-hmm. not saying that you do this in lieu Yeah. Spending one-on-one time with your partners, but maybe some of that time that was formerly one-on-one is more of this kitchen table time.

I don't know what kind of dynamic you have necessarily.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. I guess our Star Trek nights.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Like this week, our Star Trek night is a date for me.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yep.

Nichole: You know, it's my time to see that person.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: they're being brought into the fold.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: are they ready to be beat in to the gang?

Laurel: Oh, we're, we're gonna beat 'em up.

Initiation into our Star Trek Gang. Gang.

Daniel: Yeah. Star Trek gang.

Nichole: I haven't considered group sex, but group activities.

Sure. You know? Yeah. Like gatherings at my house.

Laurel: Yeah,

Nichole: absolutely.

Laurel: Yeah. And like if you're like, oh, well I'm giving up a possible weekend time with a non nesting partner, maybe they want to fall asleep with you. Mm-hmm. Maybe they want to hang out with you during the week when you would usually just be with your nesting partner and even though you're like kind of tired or whatever, they can enjoy some more domestic intimacy with you.

Nichole: That's a really good point.

Daniel: Good point. Although I think that they work nights, did they say

Nichole: Whoops.

Daniel: Well, maybe one of your other partners wants to sleep all day with you.

Laurel: Yeah,

Daniel: that's the kind of relationship goal for me and Laurel.

Nichole: Yeah. Sleepy C day,

Daniel: sleeping all day.

Nichole: like, I don't know, I think it cultivates intimacy.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: And We don't want to be part of the problem Right. At Poly amateur hour. So

what?

Daniel: Me and Nicole don't want to be part of the problem.

Laurel: Okay.

Daniel: At Poly Amateur Hour.

Nichole: I don't know. That's a choice. I'm always part of the problem.

Daniel: So if you are spending, too much time listening to Poly Amateur Hour, we give you permission to have us in an audio three-way with your partner. So you are welcome to listen to Poly Amateur Hour during your scheduled sex time.

Nichole: I see you're, you're telling them they can, what?

double duty

Laurel: double duty. You said duty.

Nichole: That's why I try to use the liquid. You duty

Daniel: the liquid you. That makes it sound so much worse.

Nichole: That's what it is. Beauty Tuesday.

Daniel: is this an odo reference?

Nichole: No.

Daniel: So, uh, what's up next?

Laurel: We got a Guesty guest.

Daniel: Oh. Tell us a little bit about our guest.

Laurel: I'm excited. ' We have a Vita Sawyers on famed poly influencer relationship. Coach, speaker, author.

Daniel: Pope of polyamory

Laurel: poly pope.

Nichole: Oh really?

Daniel: Yeah. You can tell because she levitates.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: At her Vegas residency,

Nichole: has she really staked the claim of poly pope?

Daniel: No.

Nichole: No. Somebody needs to though.

Laurel: Yeah. Somebody ought to.

Daniel: In the meantime, let's make this theoretical guest a reality. Roll drums.

Laurel: How are you doing?

Evita: Good. How are you

Laurel: hanging in there? You know?

Evita: Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: Yep.

Evita: 2026 is, has been a year.

Laurel: Oh yeah. Yep. To say the least. And it's only February with the

Evita: fourth. Right. It's, it's only like halfway through February at that.

Like I'm just like,

So you know what that means. That means that there are like 10 more months for things to turn around.

Daniel: It's very optimistic that the world will last for 10 more months.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Right. Both of you to assume.

Laurel: Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Daniel: I avid I'm really, glad that you, got the memo that we eat on this podcast. Oh

Laurel: yeah.

Evita: I did not, but I always show up as my authentic self.

Laurel: Yes.

Evita: And just like dived into these, like, I'm, I'm obsessed with these Welchs fruit and yogurt, these little oh

Laurel: oh

Evita: things right here. they're like one of those like. Not healthy snacks that make you feel like you're eating a healthy snack. You know? Yes.

Laurel: I love

Evita: They're one of those,

Laurel: yeah.

those are my peanut butter pretzels. I don't know how I've convinced myself that those are good for me in any way, but I'm like,

Nichole: protein.

Laurel: yeah, it's, it's not a cookie, so I've convinced myself if it's not sweet, it must be good for me.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Should we dive in? 'cause I know Sure. You, you've got places to be. You've got,

Evita: yeah. I, so yeah, my daughter started tutoring, um, and I had made these plans before she had started the tutoring.

Nichole: Is your daughter doing the tutoring or is she getting tutored?

Evita: She's getting tutored, yeah. She's been struggling with her, uh, math. Um, me too. My daughter is very, very like. Her studies, like we don't have to like force her like she is very mm-hmm. Like on her jail about getting good grades.

Nichole: And

Evita: she's been struggling with her math grades. So her dad got her some tutoring so her grade doesn't go down. 'cause that is like the worst thing in the world for her.

Nichole: Me too.

Evita: I'm grateful, you know? So I'm not complaining at all. 'cause I'd rather have this than the other thing. But I'm just like, girl, where did you get this from? Because I was like cutting class and smoking weed with my friends and their dad was like gang banging, you know?

And so I'm just like, what? Oh,

Laurel: that's so funny.

Daniel: Well, you, you can tell her that, I fell behind in math too. And so she better get her shit together because

Laurel: otherwise she'll be a podcaster. Exactly. And that's embarrassing.

Daniel: There's only one career choice. Yeah. About your math.

Evita: I, I let her know that you're a cautionary tale.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

you wanna start off with a little practical, Polly

it's our segment that we, do with polyamorous folks that are offering some kind of, service, including like entertainment for our polyamorous community. and you clearly do a lot of that kind of stuff.

Yes. So would you mind, like, you could do like a little intro of yourself,

Evita: So I am Avita la Vita loca Sawyers pronouns, any and all. I am a black queer, non-monogamous human, uh, coach, peer support guide, author, content creator, educator, speaker.

I, started my Instagram with a project called Today's Polyamory Reminder, where I would just do a little small piece of polyamorous education. Mm-hmm. Advice, you know, reflection. Um, and that has since changed to other things. I also now, , have a workbook called Cultivating Compersion.

Laurel: Ooh.

Evita: Um, where help people to cultivate their capacity for compersion.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Evita: I contributed to Dr. Marie Turin's book, what is Compersion, and, and I talked about how I have an ethic of compersion, even when I don't necessarily feel the feelings of compersion. and I very much believe that compersion is something that if you want to cultivate it, you don't have to. You really don't.

but if you want to cultivate Compersion, you can increase your capacity for it. but a lot of that is about learning how to do those things. I think a lot of people see people talk about compersion. They talk about it as something that you either have or you don't. Yeah.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Evita: Um, and in my experience, it's like, no, you can grow your capacity to experience it.

You can also grow your capacity to operate in it.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Evita: even when your feelings are not online, just like you can grow your capacity to operate graciously, you know? Mm-hmm. Even when sometimes you're not feeling that gracious or compassionately when sometimes you're not feeling that compassionate.

Um, and so yeah. So that's what I kind of do for the community.

Nichole: I love that.

Before we dive super in, we should probably Normy Corner Compersion.

Oh

Evita: So, Compersion actually has a couple definitions. it was originally coined in the Cara community, if I'm not mistaken, , in like San Francisco, in like the seventies.

Hmm. and how they coined the term was to talk about a specific experience, of feeling joy about your partner's joy with someone else in a romantic and or sexual context. That was the, that was the original definition of the term. so, in the non-monogamous community, when people are talking about compersion, that's generally what they're referring to they've actually expanded it out, you know, in Dr. Marie, to in's book to, be defined as. Empathetic joy.

Laurel: Hmm

Evita: irrespective of whether or not it's a partner, a friend, uh, you know, a family member and just feeling happiness about someone's happiness because there is no word that we know of in the English language.

Mm-hmm. That, represents that experience and that feeling. There's no word. Yeah.

Daniel: the ones that we usually use, like, evoke just colloquially the opposite. Like when people say sympathy or empathy, people mentally usually go towards, oh, you're feeling empathy from my pain.

Evita: Difficult feelings. Right?

Laurel: Yeah.

Evita: Yeah. And that's actually, something that she highlighted in the book is there's not that much, data or study about empathetic joy. Usually when we're talking about feeling empathy, when we talk about empathizing, sympathizing, et cetera, it's usually for sadness, grief.

Yeah. Like those kinds of emotions. We almost never talk about empathy for joy.

Nichole: I

one need to get this book. Two, it's

Evita: so good.

Nichole: I can't think of a better time to start investing in cultivating joy for other people's joy.

Laurel: Yep.

Nichole: Right. Like we're in a hyper, obviously a hyper capitalist society where it is all about, ownership, possession,

Evita: compersion work is decentering work uhhuh, and if there's ever a time where we have to learn how to decenter, I made a post recently about how Compersion work is resistance work. It's the centering work. It's deep empathy work. it's having the ability to not be the center of the universe Yes.

And show up for somebody else's joy. in the beginning Compersion was to me, I was like, okay, what the hell are you guys smoking? Because I do not know how anybody feels anything other than gut wrenching, like fear and jealousy and envy So first I had to get, go to myself. Okay. Compersion is such a lofty goal. Just try shoot for neutrality.

Mm-hmm.

Evita: Like, it's such a lofty goal, just super neutrality. And once I shot for neutrality and I kind of stayed there for a while and just had enough anecdotal evidence from living non monogamously for the period of time that I did and seeing that, okay, like, you know, that this wasn't the danger that I thought it was. You know? Then I began to kind of play around with, can I move the needle towards positivity? Is it possible? Mm-hmm.

Laurel: You know?

Evita: Mm-hmm. Um, but it wasn't until my, like last relationship that I was in to where I was like, I'm really going to like, dive into this and see if I can really change this.

And to me, I feel like you never arrive. There's always something, you know, that you could be working on or something that you can be improving.

Laurel: Hmm.

Evita: You know, bell Hooks and all about.

Love talks about, you know, we, we talk about love as a feeling, but love is a verb.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Evita: Absolutely. You know, it's an action item. It's, it's, it's, it's an ethic, you know, as much as it is a feeling. And so when people are talking about compersion, they're usually talking about feelings, which you, you cannot control.

but you do have control over your behavior. And so that's why I was like, okay, what is my ethic and my value? Of being a supportive partner from my partners, other relationships with other people, regardless of whether or not, you know, I'm feeling all that hype and jazzed about it, you know?

Yeah. Sometimes I'm actually not, and I'm very uncomfortable. And also I still have a desire to show them that, you know, I support their autonomy and what it is that they're doing.

Nichole: Oh, sorry. That's just like Nicole's in love. It's, I, yeah. I'm just really inspired and excited and,

Daniel: Unfortunately, today we need to start looking into the shadow of Compersion.

Laurel: Oh, oh God. Yeah.

Daniel: you know, just as much about this podcast is also, facing, the specter of old world monogamy,

Laurel: old world monogamy. we all use humor as a coping mechanism.

We're gonna dive into our segment. Monogamy. Are you Okay? the, the fun that we make in monogamy are you Okay.

Is kind of like pulling apart the sort of dearth of ethics and values that exist specifically in certain kinds of toxic monogamy. Not in monogamy in general, And we're so excited we're to have someone so based in, revolutionary ethics and compersion to tear this apart with us.

Nichole: All right. Okay, so we are going to read the article 10 Ways to Make Him Desperately Worry About Losing You by Brody and Anita Boyd from the website magnetize your man.com.

Nichole: ever wondered how to keep the romantic spark ablaze with a man beyond just being present?

It's about the allure. You cultivate, dive into timeless strategies that ensure you're not just noticed, but ardently missed. Let's master the art of being irresistibly unforgettable. All right, done. okay. Tip number one, maintain mystery. Mystery fuels romance being predictable, a racist surprise by keeping some mystery, you're a puzzle he's eager to solve.

Don't share all your tales and feelings at once. Let him uncover them over time. So like, you know, have conversations. I guess

psychologically, humans are attracted to what they can't fully comprehend. The unknown captivates our minds and keeps us engaged. When you're slightly enigmatic, you ignite that intrigue. An ancient proverb says. The moon doesn't reveal all its phases at once.

Much like the moon that gradually shifts its appearance over time. Your mystery keeps him in anticipation of what comes next. Three specific examples of what this could look like are one, answering questions with just enough information is leaving some details for later. Two, surprising him with spontaneous plans or outings.

No. Three. I'm a planner ly not.

Evita: You're like, that's my nightmare.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. This is how I lose Nicole. Yeah.

Nichole: Um, three. Not sharing every detail of your day, making him wonder what you've been up to.

Evita: when I hear stuff like this, it makes me so glad that I'm queer. I'm so happy, thank God that I'm queer.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I wonder whether, does it have the same effect if I just say things that make absolutely no sense?

I'm just, I was listening to an old episode the other day, 'cause that's what I do is I just, you know Yeah. Feed us back through us constantly. Uh mm-hmm. you were trying to make up a tongue twister and you said watermelon wa bachi, which is one word out of context and one.

That is not a word.

Laurel: So what's your point?

Daniel: Your point. And I was like, is that like, is that mysterious? Does that,

Laurel: that's how, that's how I keep them coming. I'm just gonna say, mm-hmm. like I listen to some of this and I'm like, am I manipulative? Because, because when I have conversations with people, like if you ask a question, I don't give you every single piece of information that I have in response to it. I give you what I think is relevant to the question. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't wanna overwhelm you with shit you're not interested in.

Daniel: like this whole thing.

The problem with this is not necessarily the tips themselves, but the motivation for it. Yeah. Like the entire premise,

Evita: what it was for me. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. The framing of the tips are to make your partner afraid to lose you.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah.

Evita: And that was the part that I was like, why would I want my partner to be.

Like afraid to lose me. Like why would that be the motivation instead of it being like, here are ways to enrich your relationship with your person, here are ways to enhance your experience with a partner. Like, why am I trying to make my partner be in fear of losing me?

Nichole: here's how to cause your partner pain.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Right. In order to maintain your relationship. That's insane.

Daniel: And they're also, I think, speaking to people who themselves are utterly afraid that they will lose their partner.

Nichole: Absolutely.

Daniel: So they're like,

Evita: right, because why are you here? Why are you listening to this shit?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because you're probably afraid that they gonna leave. so if you know how that feels

Laurel: right,

Evita: why would You want to incite that in another person? And I say this as someone who. I always call myself the avoidant whisperer, like avoidance or like kryptonite for me.

I'm telling you, I love me a robot. Okay. So, oh my God, like spock. Oh, like that is vague to me. I'm like, oh my God, you have no emotions. What? Yes. I love that. and so I tend to have people that are avoided and so they usually. Aren't super afraid to lose their relationships. 'cause they're like, oh my god, this relationship is gone.

Yes. You know?

Daniel: Yeah.

Evita: So, um, and I remember talking to, uh, one of my, uh, metamours actually, and saying, you know, it would be nice to just have the experience one time of like having a partner that. treasured our relationship enough to feel just some sense of fear at the loss of it, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. But I, that's not a perpetual state, right? Mm-hmm. That I do. I want them to be in, like, I'd like them to be able to feel fear at the loss of the relationship with me, but I ultimately want them to get back to a place of safety. And to me, I feel like if my partner is afraid to lose me, there's something that I'm not doing.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Evita: To keep them or help them feel secure and safe in our relationship. So, like, to me, like, you know, I don't want my partner in a perpetual state of fear that they're gonna lose their relationship with me. Like that doesn't sound like a good idea.

Laurel: Yeah. Yes. A thousand percent.

Nichole: Alright. So number two, maintain polarity, um, in love.

The magnetic pull of opposites is undeniable. This dynamic, often rooted in the dance between the masculine and the feminine fuck off energies. Yeah. Creates a rich tapestry of contrasts. Each polarity brings its own strength and vulnerabilities and blah, blah, blah. Three specific examples of how you could look at this is speak with gentleness and occasionally use a tender touch and conversations fuck off dress in a way that accentuates your femininity while opting for soft colors and delicate fabrics.

I,

Laurel: I was so confused by this one. 'cause it is, it just, gender essentialism? Yes. Yes. Is that what it's telling you? Yes. Just like lean into gender essentialism. Yes.

Evita: and what is he wearing for me? Right. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah.

Nichole: Sweatpants

Evita: if you're lucky. What if you like your man in soft colors and soft, like pastels and stuff like that, you know?

So like,

Daniel: cause these are, these are heteronormative relationships. Yeah, of course. I think they want the woman in a, in a giant flowy like vulva dress and the man just has a penis helmet and then he just, just runs and jumps in. He just runs. He's gonna be like. look so much tda.

Laurel: That's really what they mean by polarity. Yeah. Is just like gender from Mars and, okay. Fucking can I

Evita: Now, while I always say that the human experience is a dual one, it is, it's, it's, it's push and pull is up and down. It's twee and loud. And so I do believe that polarity is a thing. I just try to not gender it.

Yeah. So I call it the young, you know, I call it the receiver and the, the penetrator energy. Like, you know, I try to like, you know, Acknowledge that that is a thing without adding gender to it. Yeah. When I hear these things I'm always like, how narrow are these people's experiences? Because I know of, you know, amab people who like their afab partners to be, um, aggressive and assertive.

And so

Laurel: yeah.

Evita: You know, why, uh, is the conversation never sit across from your partner and say what works for you? What is fulfilling? What turns you on? And then just do that.

Daniel: would you like me to wear the penis helmet now and then,

Nichole: yeah. Every once in a while, I mean.

Speaking of narrow experiences, the next tip

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Is diversify your interests. Oh. Uh, from a psychological stance, someone with wide ranging interests appears dynamic and intriguing, engaging in numerous activities, hints at a life beyond just the relationship, amplifying your allure and desirability.

So be a person again, that's

Evita: what so many of those things I was like, so just be a human being. Yeah. 'cause like so many, I was like, this is just good advice. And not only is it just good advice, but these are things you should be doing regardless of whether or not you're in a relationship.

Laurel: Yes. So, yes.

Daniel: But Avita

does it become bad advice though? If I am doing it for my partner, if I am, like I am going to become a full human being so that, he will

Laurel: be afraid

Daniel: to leave me, afraid to

Laurel: lose me.

Daniel: does that render it completely ineffectual or counter effectual?

Evita: I don't know. That's a great question because I, I would like to think that.

It would be like one of those osmosis things, you know, where the person is like doing it for somebody else and then like somewhere down the line it would kick in that like, it would have some kind of like benefit by osmosis for the person. Right,

Laurel: right.

Evita: But I do think there's a slippery slope where you can kind of become not conscious, you know, that you're doing it, you know, for the other person.

And because all relationships end either by, you know, breakups, death, you know, you'll find yourself going, you know, now that I'm not in this relationship anymore, who am I, what am I living for? You know? Mm-hmm. What was it all for?

Daniel: And let's say that they succeeded at this, even if the relationship doesn't end in, death dismemberment or breakup.

Evita: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Like what if they completely succeed with their seven point plan and then the person is terrified that they will lose them? you lose lose. like I feel like they're gonna end up with some regret. Yeah. You've created, a Gollum character Okay. So a lot of these are real repeat like tips, right? Yeah, yeah,

Laurel: yeah.

Nichole: Encourage space. And get social, it's basically saying like, develop hobbies, right?

Laurel: Like have

Nichole: your own

Laurel: life.

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: I wanna skip ahead to number five. Practice appreciation. Appreciation is a subtle reminder of the value you bring.

What, Recognize and thank him for his efforts and don't shy away from expecting the same. I mean, yeah. three specific examples. Leaving him a thank you note vocalizing your admiration, celebrating milestones. I think I just, I don't understand. The appreciation is a subtle reminder of the value you bring because it feels like you're just thanking somebody in order to expect that Thank you.

In return. Return, yeah.

Evita: Yeah. Right. Almost like you are thanking them so that they're getting like their regular dopamine hit, like from your like validation. and that's something that they're gonna want to keep, you know?

Nichole: Yeah.

Evita: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That kind of comes off.

Daniel: so yeah. I think that you're right. Like the middle part of this list is like, be human. Be human. Yeah. Be human.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: D, develop yourself so that he will be interested in You have a, have a personality. the last two Yeah.

Are, Interesting.

Nichole: Okay.

Set boundaries with him. Establishing clear boundaries with him is an act of self-respect. By defining these lines, you convey that you value yourself and expect the same from him. Specific examples are expressing your needs and wants openly asserting when you need personal time or space and communicating your feelings when a boundary has been crossed.

I mean, yeah.

Evita: That's good for all relationships.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: all of these are crazy in like the context of the like click bait headline of this. Yes. But that specifically. Like the idea of cultivating a strong sense of personal boundaries in order uhhuh to inspire.

To exploit

Nichole: fear.

Laurel: Yeah. To exploit somebody else's anxious attachment essentially is fucking maniacal.

Evita: Right? Yeah. Because that's the framework is , to make someone feel, afraid to lose you. And honestly, If someone is doing all of those things and the person is afraid they're, they're with someone that's afraid to lose them, then either two things are happening.

They're with someone that has an unbalanced, unregulated, anxious attachment style, or means that there's probably some other shit that you not doing.

Laurel: Yep. Mm-hmm.

Evita: That's why they feel fear. Or like I said, you're with somebody with a completely unregulated attachment style and then you got bigger problems.

Laurel: Yeah.

Evita: In that instance

Nichole: Um, I have to read this last one because it is kind of wild to, it's not, it's not what I was expecting. No. To end on, they end on don't use social media.

Evita: Yeah, that one was interesting.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah. While being social is crucial, detaching from social media can create an air of mystery.

It makes you less accessible, increasing your allure. Three specific examples. Taking a week long break from all social platforms, limiting your posts to significant life events, keeping personal achievements and outings off the internet.

Evita: honestly, that means I'm cooked. Okay. I might as well hang it up.

Nichole: You'll never inspire fear.

Evita: I'm,

Nichole: yeah. I, I, I mean,

Daniel: we all feel a really secure parasocial relationship with you.

Evita: Yeah. Oh, beg you.

Nichole: Okay. It's just not the way that I thought this was gonna end. I, I don't know how I

Laurel: thought

Nichole: it was gonna end, but not

Laurel: that. It's also another weird piece of like, kind of good advice in some context.

Yes. Like we have all experienced some amount of being online that is probably like not healthy for us. Mm-hmm. Or like not conducive to just like a good frame of mind in general. IE me every morning doom scrolling. yeah, to be mysterious.

Nichole: See that's the thing, like

Laurel: to somebody else,

Nichole: like, it's not suggesting like, don't interact with social media for your own mental health or your own, like, whatever it's saying.

Like, make your brand mystery.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: And like, that's wild to me.

Evita: is it authentic for you, right? Yeah. Like you really like, you know, that you like approve your friends on like social media, so y'all could just not be friends on social media and then you can post what you want.

Laurel: Yes.

Evita: Imagine

Laurel: that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: If this list had a completely different like title, like could you almost sell the whole thing as like nine tips to create secure attachment? beyond the ones that are like, be elusive.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: But all the rest seem like they would create more secure attachment in your relationship.

Laurel: most of them, if you took out just the examples, uh, they gave you would be fine and like good advice

Evita: It also sounds like it, it weirdly is Addressing things about modern monogamy and how it functions that are actually not okay.

Laurel: Yes.

Evita: For example, having a life outside of the relationship.

Daniel: Yeah.

Evita: Having, you know, things that, you know, don't have anything to do with one another.

Like, you know, like those things are actually things that in monogamy, like people are not really having those conversations about like the way modern monogamy functions. It doesn't really encourage people to do that. So it's like the, he's, I'm almost like weirdly addressing

Laurel: Yeah.

Evita: Uh, these problematic things in monogamy, but sprinkling just a smidgen Yes.

Of toxic.

Laurel: That is such a good point because they are saying like, take all these things that aren't really traditionally allowed in monogamous relationships to make your partner afraid of losing you.

Evita: Right.

Laurel: Because if you didn't have a social life, if you didn't have hobbies and you didn't create space and time, well then they'd have nothing to worry about.

Evita: Right?

Nichole: Oh my God,

Laurel: that is such a good point of you. That's fucking wild.

Daniel: Beyond the presumed motivation of the reader, which they are targeting, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. I wanna make my partner afraid as I am. I want them to be just as afraid of me as I am of them. What is up with this couple who?

This is their business?

Nichole: I'm gonna do a deep dive. I'm gonna find out one how to magnetize my man. Um, and I'm gonna figure out which pole he is. Is he, is he positive or negative? Um, and two, I'm gonna, I'm gonna figure, I'm gonna figure Anita. Anita and, and

Laurel: Bo. Brody.

Nichole: Brody.

Laurel: Brody.

Nichole: Brody. Yeah.

Laurel: So I read They're about me page. Okay. And it's all about her credentials.

Nichole: Interesting.

Laurel: He just, and

Evita: not in the video at all. It is only him talking

Laurel: that is so, yeah. And I looked at a bunch of their other like articles and videos and it's all his face, but the about me is about her credentials.

Nichole: I am gonna red string this.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: What's, I'll come back with a book report. I'm so excited.

Evita: So, yeah. When you said the name of the wife, I was a little surprised. Yeah. Because I was like, I watched the video and like, you know, you would think of this was something that they did together.

Laurel: Yeah.

Evita: That they would appear in the video. Toge, she's not in the video at all.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Maybe she's just taking so much space and setting up so many boundaries and he's, and it's really him. He is like, let me tell you how terrified I am that I'm gonna lose her.

Evita: She's out with her book club right now and I'm,

Laurel: no, no.

Nichole: Fuck me

Daniel: right now.

Nichole: That was great.

Daniel: Yeah. Oh, it was fantastic. I guess it got you in the mood.

Laurel: Another tip for Stu, just listen to Avita for a little while and, uh,

Nichole: yeah.

Laurel: And neither of you'll be able to fall asleep because there will be so much good ethical energy.

Nichole: Oh my God. Okay, so where can our listeners find Davida?

Laurel: So you can find, Avita on Instagram at Levita Loca 34. You can probably also just search like Avita Sawyers, on Instagram. You can find DaVita. Also on Patreon and Substack. sa same, same, same, same, same, same, same, same handle.

Levita loca. Sawyers,

Daniel: you, you're gonna have no trouble finding Avita Sawyers. In fact, you're gonna have a hard time not finding her. She's gonna find you. Yeah. she already has your address.

I love it when like, emotions are not treated as nouns. this, looking at conversion as a verb and like any practice, something that you can practice and get practice at.

Laurel: Yes. like if you've done a certain amount of therapy, especially like cognitive behavioral therapy, you do practice cultivating certain emotions.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: In a way where I feel like, you know, people at large,

Daniel: large people,

Laurel: people at large criminals. Criminals,

Daniel: yes.

Laurel: Fugitive. Where I feel like fugitive of the law just don't look at emotions the same way where you can sort of like actively participate in cultivating feeling certain ways.

Daniel: You know who doesn't have any trouble with compersion?

Nichole: Who?

Daniel: Dolphins? No. Wait. Belugas.

Laurel: I was like Dolphins.

Nichole: So is this our segment that is for some reason, something that we can actually keep doing animal magnetism. Yeah.

Daniel: Did we say what Animal Magnetism is?

Nichole: It's, it's a segment where we talk about polyamory in the animal kingdom, right?

Daniel: Yes.

Nichole: Okay.

Laurel: This article comes to us from Vice.

Ugh.

Oh,

Nichole: I'm only mad at Vice for other things.

Laurel: That's fair. Should I read it?

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: Pretty short read it. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: A recent study published in Frontiers in Marine Science says that an isolated beluga whale society in Bristol Bay, Alaska is breaking the binary of its mating systems, issuing the usual choice between lifelong monogamy and freewheeling sexual bacca.

And it seems to be doing pretty well for itself. Wow.

Nichole: Okay. How

Laurel: researchers studying this small, long, isolated group of about 2000 belugas expected to find low genetic diversity. There are so few of them, and they collectively had such infrequent contact with outside groups that there was no doubt in anyone's mind that there was going to be a strong evidence of inbreeding

Nichole: Uhoh.

Daniel: Mm Uh oh. S taboo, beluga porn,

Laurel: Instead, they found a surprisingly high level of genetic diversity. The authors of the study say that this small group of isolated whales pulled off this incredible feat by finding a middle ground between being exclusively monogamous and being big time polygamous.

Daniel: Incredible feat. They make it sound like a circus performance.

Like they're trained swinger. Trained swinger, whales.

Laurel: Yeah. Okay. How many times have we had to mention that they're isolated? Like we get it,

Daniel: is this why there's more swingers in suburbia too?

Laurel: They're isolated. Isolation.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laurel: It also seemed to help out quite a bit, that they are a whale society without dominant males whose extreme horniness could have easily become a detriment to their existence.

Nichole: Oh my god. Pickle Lane Vice. Oh,

Laurel: what, like they're assuming that if they had dominant males, or are they saying that belugas males are extremely horny, but good thing they're not dominant? Or are they assuming that if they were dominant males, they would be extremely horny?

Daniel: I think they were all extremely horny, and if they were dominant that they would kill each other.

Nichole: So what did they do?

Laurel: Using DNA from tissue samples collected from 623 whales over 13 years, scientists found no evidence that a few dominant males were fathering. Most of the calves while male belugas ate with multiple females, the advantage is modest at best.

No male in the study had more than four offspring in the sampled population. Females weren't sticking with a single partner either. Calves from the same mother typically had different fathers across breeding seasons. Hmm. None of this seems like a fluke. Belugas can live up to 90 years giving both sexes long reproductive lifespans and plenty of opportunities to spread their seed without ever feeling the desperate need to dominate the sexual landscape.

Nichole: Oh, I can't spread their seed.

Laurel: Yeah,

Nichole: an extreme horniness. Anyways,

Daniel: everybody knows that like, uh, dolphins and dolphin like whales will hump anything. Right.

Laurel: They're like the chihuahuas of the sea.

Daniel: They,

they get cold easily. They like to curl up on your lap.

Nichole: They look cute in a little sweater.

Laurel: Aw, I bet they do. What should have been an unstable, chaotic genetic catastrophe turned out to be a remarkably stable system that maintains genetic health. Despite its isolation, researchers found evidence that this pattern has existed for generations with belugas somehow keeping inbreeding low with without reliance on migration or population growth.

All they needed was some male belugas who weren't a bunch of sexually conquest thing freaks and some lax views on monogamy.

Daniel: I'm so sorry that I used the vice version of this article.

Laurel: What is this sentence? I have to read that again. All they needed was some male belugas who weren't a bunch of sexually conquest thing freaks and some lax views on monogamy in, and as far as beluga whales can have views, which

Daniel: they can't. There's not a pamphlets, there's not like a set of pamphlets that are being circulated in the beluga community.

Laurel: Cite your source.

Nichole: Oh my God.

Laurel: The team points out that this doesn't mean all beluga whale populations behave the same way they're thriving because these whales don't subscribe to the idea that one male's genetic lineage must rule them all. It seems they think everyone should get a fair shot at carrying on their lineage, and it seems to be working out for them so far.

Nichole: Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. So this author is like, I know what the whales are thinking and not thinking.

Daniel: the, female whales are like. Hey, everybody deserves a shot.

Nichole: And like, I don't subscribe to the idea of monogamy.

Daniel: it's like the polite thing to do. Like if there's a bunch of belugas like lined up to mate with a female, then you, then you're like, oh, you go ahead

Nichole: Uhhuh.

Daniel: Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, go first. Go first.

Nichole: Yeah. So this is also. Polite society. they're doing a Jane Austen dance in their like banquet hall.

It's like everybody's turn and you pair with this person and then you pair with this person.

Daniel: It's, except it's for sloppy underwater seconds. This is the underwater molecule.

Laurel: Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Is this Uh

Nichole: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Laurel (2): Maybe that's what they based his species on. Are

Daniel: they from the beluga planet?

Laurel: They're from the beluga planet.

Nichole: Whales have a very strong presence in Star Trek.

Laurel: Yeah, that is true.

Daniel: And a very horny presence in Star Trek. And those were belugas.

Jesus Christ, it's all coming together.

Nichole: Okay. I do have a very quick story about what this immediately reminded me of. Okay. Okay. So

it is absolute definitive proof that I have been who I am for my entire life.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Because

Nichole: this is very on brandand for me.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Okay.

Nichole: preschool,

had a performance with the rest of my class.

Mm-hmm. Singing songs, Raffi songs, right. Yeah. And yeah. teacher would play guitar, whatever. we sing the song, baby Beluga.

Laurel: Mm. Uhhuh.

Nichole: I stand up after the song is done and say, you guys sang it wrong. This is how you sing it. And I proceeded to sing the song by myself.

Laurel: This is out of performance.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: You guys sang it wrong. Wait, what did, do you remember what they sang? Like,

Nichole: oh, I have no fucking clue. This is just my dad ran out to the car to go get the video camera. Because

Laurel: he was like, I have to capture this,

Nichole: but he was too late. But this is, this is, wow. This is Nicole lore

Daniel: Whoa. What if you did that at the end of the podcast?