Nichole: I got a, um, hinge message last night. it said, one moment, please.

Daniel: Wow. That's a weird hinge message to get.

Nichole (2): So, he said, , I took a bath with Laurel last year. Ask her about it.

Laurel: Who is it?

Daniel: Answer for yourself.

Nichole: How many baths did you take with people last year?

Daniel: People who you may or may not have dated? 'cause it sounds like maybe this was just a, a rogue bath without context. Like did you meet up, was it like a bath meetup? Did you have a bath meetup Laurel last

Laurel: year?

Nichole: Are you going through the Rolodex of like,

Laurel: yeah, everyone I've bathed with

Daniel: you don't. keep a spreadsheet The way that Nicole does

Laurel: I don't Last year. Who is it?

Nichole: it's this guy.

Laurel: Oh yeah.

Nichole: I was like, oh, I absolutely will ask her about it. This world is either small or we just get around. 'cause I wasn't gonna use the word slut like immediately.

Laurel: It's a small world. Or laurel's a huge slut.

Daniel: I like that. It's like not immediately, like, it's like the third word that you use to describe war. Magnificent.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Ugh.

Daniel: Incredible slut.

Nichole: I, there are so many other words that I would use before slut. Not because you're not slutty.

Laurel: Thank you.

Nichole: Just because. Generous is like number one for me. Aw.

Daniel: With your sex

Daniel: wait, are we getting the bath story?

Nichole: Yeah. What's the bath story?

Laurel: it was the first bath incident that I thought of, but there were a lot of people in that bath, so,

Nichole: okay.

Daniel: Was it, was it a bath in the traditional sense of being like in a bathtub? What, how many people?

Laurel: There was like four of us.

Daniel: In your bathtub?

Laurel: No.

Daniel: Okay.

Laurel: This was, a gon coast.

Daniel: Oh,

Laurel: expedition. Oh, yeah.

Nichole: with Sean?

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: Got

Laurel: it. Sean was not in this bath

Daniel: though. Yes. Only. The rich man who flies everybody around for parties involving pyrotechnics could afford the four person bathtub.

Laurel: Was it? Yeah, it was his Airbnb.

Daniel: Yes. Yeah.

Group baths are for the rich

Laurel: or the very poor.

Daniel: No.

Nichole: Like bathrobes.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: Bathrobes are for the poor.

Nichole: No, it's like there's the

Laurel: very large bathrobes.

Nichole: There's the joke that's like either you're either very rich or very poor if you spend your day in a bathrobe.

Daniel (2): Oh, I haven't heard this. I thought you were saying that if you're poor, you have to share a very large bathrobe and everybody huddles together after the bathroom.

Laurel: That's what I was, that's what I was going for.

Nichole: Okay. How did this happen?

Laurel: You know, it was like a beach party day. We were all partying at the beach. We're all like Sandy and it's like Oregon CSO got a little chilly mm-hmm. In the evening. it seemed like a delightful idea to take a bath.

I don't know who started it, but I finished it by,

Daniel: by peeing in the water. This bath's over fuckers.

Nichole: Oh God. Laurel, you guys were Sandy. Maybe. And you didn't take a shower?

Laurel: Definitely not

Nichole: before getting into the bathtub.

Laurel: Not sure.

Nichole: I would have,

Laurel: couldn't tell you.

Nichole: I, oh God.

Daniel: This, this was an LSD bath, right?

Laurel: Sure. Probably It's

Daniel: the best

Laurel: kind. At least.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: I'm just imagining all of the sand gathering at the bottom. I don't. And how gritty that would feel. And the idea of it going down the drain and like clogging the drain and me being like, this is not my house. I'm destroying this house.

What the, there's so much anxiety

Daniel: You're giving our listeners the opposite of A SMR right now.

Nichole: That's what I'm here for

Laurel: a SM Anxiety.

Daniel: Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour.

Laurel: I'm Laurel.

Nichole: I'm Nicole.

Daniel: I'm Daniel.

Laurel: And we are here to pump you up.

Nichole: We are here to pump you up. Reference.

Daniel: Oh no,

now every time that Nicole makes a reference, she's, she's gonna clap, she's gonna clap her hands.

Nichole: No, no, no. I might do it two more times. Rule of three. But beyond that,

Daniel: I like how you also have to like give the asterisk, like when we make a Star Trek reference, you just say Star Trek reference.

And then what good is it gonna do them? If they just know, oh, it's a Star Trek reference, they're gonna go, oh, I better watch, go and watch all of Star Trek. So I can find that Star Trek reference. If you want a footnote. Our Star Trek references.

You have to cite episode and series.

Laurel: Wow.

Daniel: And timestamp,

Laurel (2): coming from Mr. Moseley over here,

Laurel (2): season One, episode two

Nichole: The idea that we have seasons, like, I think season one is just gonna be forever. Like yeah, we're just perpetually gonna be in season one, so we always have the excuse of like, oh, they haven't hit their sophomore slump yet. they're not gonna introduce like a cousin Bobby to try and reinvigorate the series.

Laurel: What if we just got like a weird little annoying person?

Daniel: Like, we'd all gotten too old and so

Laurel: Yeah. It's

Daniel: just one of us gets like, one of us gets a younger girlfriend.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Eh,

Laurel: yeah.

Daniel: Eh, and then I, I just have a, I just have like Gen Z girlfriend who I, who I bring to all the episodes. It's just, she's like, you guys have no s

Laurel: we all talk about Gen Z. Like, they are like children.

Nichole: Aren't they?

Laurel: No,

Daniel: no, no,

Laurel: no.

Nichole: What are they?

Daniel: They're up to 27,

Laurel: think it's like gen alpha now that we wanna really be digging into,

Nichole: I have nothing to do with with future generations, so I guess I'll put it on my mother the other day. Mm-hmm. I was gonna say, I'll put it on my to dodo list.

My mother the other day told me, she's like, Nicole, I made a don't do list.

Laurel: Oh, wow.

Nichole: And I was like, what's it mean? What is that? Yeah. She's like, these are all the things that I don't have to do.

Daniel: It's just, right now it's just. Murder. Murder. Murder.

Nichole: I liked it.

I thought it was a good idea. It's things like she's feeling pressure to like post on social media or she's feeling pressure to send out a newsletter to her. Yeah. You know, fans or whatever. So it's like she doesn't have to do any of that. I like that she writes it down and reminds herself

Daniel: Who's pressuring your mom to do social media?

Nichole: The world. Oh.

Daniel: I, I forgot about them. I haven't been listening.

Nichole: Isn't everybody pressured to do social media?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: You know what's not gonna be our first segment today?

Laurel: What?

Daniel: The pip iop, poly and Public Invasion of Pro Privacy, where we talk about Lindy West's book and the backlash to it because we need to gather our materials. But I just wanna like throw out there that like this whole pressure to be a public being thing.

I've been thinking about it so much.

Yeah.

Now that that is like saturating the polys sphere. Mm-hmm. I'm like, oh my God. I so much do not want to be beholden to like what people think of my relationships or if I do something fucked up, like to owe an apology to fucking

Laurel: the world writ large.

Daniel: Yeah.

Mm-hmm. It is so dreadful to me and I'm like, oh my God, why am I trying to be like slightly famous on this podcast? Like, is this the end goal where people are gonna be like, oh my God, you're fucking trumpet playing boyfriend is such a douche bag.

Laurel: I feel like we've done it right though. ' cause like we've really set a strong foundation for everyone to just not have expectations of us.

Daniel: Oh yeah.

Laurel: That's like rule number. Go ahead. It's like go of your expectations. I'm not gonna live up to them.

Nichole: Yeah. I think we've even like taken back shit.

Or at least I've taken back shit that I've said on this podcast.

Laurel: Yeah. I'd like to retract everything I've said ever, but I'm not gonna apologize for it. Fuck you.

Nichole: Yeah. In the moment it was, you know,

Laurel: in the moment it felt right. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: So we're good babe.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. No apologies from us, except perhaps I.

You've been hassling me all morning about how you want to apologize for this thing that we don't think that you should be apologizing for.

Nichole: We don't have the time.

Daniel: Okay. Then in that case, I take back my segue.

Laurel: Would you like to apologize for that?

Daniel: I would like to apologize for my segue.

I was much younger

Nichole: I am learning and growing.

Daniel: well, if we can't do that segment. How about Just a little bit of a dm. Sliders.

Laurel: Oh,

Nichole: little. Okay. DM

Laurel: sliders. Love it.

Laurel: Speaking of DM sliders, we did get a request to book club adult braces.

Daniel: Mm.

Laurel: but first we're gonna book club some pucking around. We have Alex Berto scheduled for some book talk in not the super near future, like long enough so that we can all read it. It's a fucking, it's a long book. Like I listened to it on audiobook and it was like a 24 hour audiobook. Whoa.

Yeah. So get your copies. Yes. Start reading along so you can join us for. Some book talks,

Nichole: by Pucking Around by Emily Wrath.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Send us your thoughts. Send us your questions. Send us like, we just wanna know like what you think of it,

Daniel: A lot of people don't know this, but we invented hockey smut.

when we have like talked about hockey smut multiple times, solicited hockey smut from our listeners and received, not until then does heated rivalry hit the zeitgeist.

Laurel: Yep.

Daniel: So you're welcome.

Laurel: You heard it here first and last

Daniel: we turned your boyfriend gay.

Nichole: You're welcome.

Laurel: What else is in the mailbag?

Nichole: Thanks for turning my boyfriend gay.

Daniel: let's start off with a little email that we received mm-hmm. At Poly Amateur hour@gmail.com. You too can write us a letter celebrating us.

Nichole: Aw, yeah. Is that what this is?

Daniel: Yeah. it is titled Probably no help whatsoever. But a thank you at least. Aw.

Laurel: Aw.

Daniel: dear Laurel, Nicole and Daniel.

I was moved by your appeal for emails in the latest episode, so this is my DM slide. However, I'm not sure I have anything of value for you, aside from my appreciation. That's enough stupid.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: That's all I want.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. What do you think we're doing this for?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Money,

Nichole: attention. Look at me, look at me.

Daniel: However, I'm not sure I have anything of value for you, aside from my appreciation. See attached Simpsons meme, which might as well be a photo of me at this time. Shall I consult the Simpsons meme?

Laurel: Yeah. Consult the Simpsons meme. Yes.

Daniel: We've got Millhouse standing at what looks to be a talent show. One hand outstretched saying, Aw.

That's like the most touching Simpsons meme that I think I've ever read. Thank you.

Laurel: Everything's coming up. Millhouse.

Millhouse.

Daniel: I have no question or unicorn profiles. I'd be happy to do. Uh, my own poly Idaho all the way from Liverpool.

Laurel: Ooh.

Daniel: Home of the Beatles and probably some other things.

Oh

wait, is he saying that Liverpool is home to the Beatles and probably some other things?

Or that he's, or is he saying that he'd be happy to do a, my own poly Idaho from Liverpool and probably some other things

Laurel: Well, we're gonna have to find out.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: That was the hook.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and you are writing this, or we are receiving this or reading it? In the wake of having recently released our hit single for the City of Brighton. Mm-hmm. Brighton Fucks.

Laurel: Oh, yeah.

Daniel: Let's,

Laurel: yeah. What does Liverpool do? Let's find out,

Nichole: let's find out.

Daniel: Does Liverpool Fuck Brighton?

Do they get together? Ooh. Like do they both? Fuck.

Laurel: Ooh,

Nichole: they have to have, like,

Laurel: they're Eiffel Tower in Portland,

Nichole: an international eiff tower, and France wants nothing to do with it.

Daniel: Note. Absolutely. No offense will be taken if you don't fancy a guest of dubious popularity other than recommending it to everyone. It's the only practical help I can offer.

Laurel: Aw,

Daniel: well please do that as well. Yeah. Really enjoying the podcast anyway. And it's pointing me towards other fabulous poly resources, which is a real plus.

Every vocal poly practitioner or ally is a big step towards the wider acceptance that seems inevitable.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. We're coming for you.

Daniel: We will add your biological and technical individuality to our own. And though like most positive social change, it's glacially slow to occur. It won't happen at all without visibility and education. so thanks for standing up.

Laurel: Woo. Aw. We do most of the sitting down.

But

Daniel: Well, thank you very much, Stubbert.

Nichole: Thank you. Stubbert.

Laurel: Yeah, thank you Liverpool. Stu,

Nichole: that's exciting. We'll be reaching out.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah, we'll be reaching around and Oh my God. Here we have a five star review from Carina Ballerina.

Laurel: Aw, a ballerina.

Daniel: Carina Ballerina is one of our favorite types of stewards. The kind, which seems to think of Nicole as their, kind of like a podcast dominatrix because you tell them what to write in the review and then they just turn around and they're like, yes, mommy.

So you asked our stewards with the tangled instructions from our resident dominatrix, we get this. Ooh, that pie is good. The guy isn't too bad either.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Funny hosts with a good stable of segments that keep episodes from feeling repetitive. A good listen for this poly noob and I would assume for more seasoned folks Hmm.

Laurel: Ooh, season.

Were you seasoning us as you said that?

Daniel: Yeah. Um, stewards, I was, I was pretending I was like putting Mrs. Dash on my, on my tits here.

Nichole: Oh boy.

Laurel: That's what they mean by seasoned polyamorous.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Thank you Stu.

Laurel: Yeah, thanks Stu.

Nichole: Really appreciate that. Thank you.

Laurel: Yeah,

Daniel: and please all you other stewards out there, please do get on that app podcast or whatever podcast platform. You have. Hopefully it's one that allows written reviews, helps with the algos. Get on, write a little something. Nicole, what shall they write today in order not to, uh, incur your wrath?

Nichole: I'm trying to think. Um, ' Is it a non sequitur? In the nineties, there was this comic.

Laurel: What? I can't wait for this. Yeah. Tell us about this nineties comic

Nichole: startup penguin and it was called Non-sequitur. And I always write it as non sequiter.

So,

Daniel: so, so Stewarts, tell us, tell us how much you enjoy the non-SEC quitters

Nichole: You

can also visit our website@polyamateurhour.com where you can ask us questions anonymously. Yeah. We love your questions. Yeah. Send us all questions. Please send us your questions. and again, email us at poly amateur hour@gmail.com if you would like to not remain anonymous and you are. You know, just like letting your freak flag fly. Yeah.

Daniel: if you wanna exchange nudes with us, you have to write to the email.

Nichole: If you wanna exchange nudes with us, you have to download signal.

That's, yeah. But

Laurel: you have to email us to together numbers.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: So we can connect on signal.

Daniel: There's a courting ceremony. Don't just try and what I'm saying is that you can't get on the anonymous website form and be like, send nudes.

Well,

Nichole: yeah.

Laurel: Willy, well, well, well,

Daniel: our, guest for today has to reschedule.

Laurel: Oh, shit.

Daniel: Oh, so

Nichole: her we completely understand. Yeah. Okay. Then I'm gonna go pee.

Laurel: Go pee. breakup Candy. Breakup candy.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: now. As you can hear by our chewing and sorry, and our singing and our giddy declaration, there is breakup candy on the table today.

Laurel: Breakup, K

Daniel: breakup, Kandy.

Nichole: is that, get down on it.

Daniel: Yeah.

And Stewarts who have been paying attention to our, uh, social media feed, which we feel pressured to have to add things to.

Laurel: Yeah. I couldn't put that on my list of shit. I don't have to do.

Daniel: Well know that. we have by this point shared a Nicole with nachos image. It's one of the several things. There's um, there's the breakup candy Uhhuh, there's the breakup.

Cigarette

and there is breakup nachos, which are a new, tradition

So I've heard that you want to discuss this story under the banner of one of our segments,

Nichole: poly Mind. Fuck. Play the song. Play it.

Daniel: Ah, so that stewards can follow along and understand how inappropriate the selection of this segment is for this story.

Poly Mindfuck is the segment where we discuss some misstep, mistake or bad thing, which we have done that, , resulted in whatever it's our version of, a culpa, but since we don't apologize.

Laurel: Oh, yeah, yeah. It's like our public notes apology.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Yeah,

Laurel: but fun.

Daniel: Yeah,

Nichole: but fun. But it has a cool jingle.

Daniel (2): Thanks. we'll see how you like the new lyrics this time around.

Nichole: Oh, oh, ohoh. Oh, oh.

Daniel: So tell us, tell us what did you do?

Nichole: Okay, so I started seeing this person.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Probably in about what, September, October. and like our first date out the gate, he starts to tell me about how like he and his wife hadn't had sex in like a year.

Daniel: Hmm.

Nichole: Boy. Um, and

Daniel: I know I have sex with his wife more often than he did.

Nichole: Wow. Probably, actually. Well, I dunno. I don't, during our first date, you know, I asked him like, so what is your experience with polyamory and non-monogamy? And he's like, oh, well, my wife has been dating her partner, for, you know, I think they're about to celebrate their six month anniversary.

And like, we've been open for about a year. He's telling me about some, like, some tension between him and his wife.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nichole: You know, and like he's telling me all about how he really likes his metamore.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Um, and how, you know, much of a, like part of his life.

He is. Um, and I asked him like, so what do you, what do you want? Like, what is your ideal? Mm-hmm. And he was like, well, I want kitchen table. I want all of us to like, I would like a partner there, to also interact with my wife and her partner and all this stuff. Mm-hmm. Stuff. I'm like, yeah, that's, yep. It turns out I have a lot of experience in that.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: so we keep seeing each other. Um, and then he goes on a business trip for about three weeks. Mm-hmm. Um, I get hospitalized mm-hmm. During that time. and so sex is a little bit of a question for me right after I get out of the hospital. Right.

Daniel: Sex.

Nichole: it's around like the. like two month mark. Mm-hmm. Granted, he was away for some of that time. I was hospitalized, whatever. and

Daniel: you know, whenever you say I was hospitalized, it really sounds like you were in a mental institution.

Nichole: It was against my will one, um, and two, you know, I, I ended up on an antidepressant afterwards, so yeah, I kind of was in institutionalized, , for,

Daniel: for hysteria. It did have to do with your fucking lady parts too

Laurel: Well.

Nichole: so, I mentioned like he lives near Movie Madness, so I was like, oh, maybe we could rent a movie and like go back to your place.

And he was like, well, one, I don't have a tv. And I was like, oh, well, okay. I guess

Laurel: we'll rent a TV then.

Daniel: Aw, that makes me nostalgic.

Nichole: That makes me really nostalgic. Yeah. and two, my wife isn't really comfortable with me having people over here. I was like, oh, Hmm. All right. Well,

Laurel: okay.

Nichole: Okay. so we continue dating for a little bit, blah, blah, blah.

and then some, like, again, I broach like, Hey, maybe I can come over and like do something, whatever sex is on the table.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Right.

Daniel: That's where it's best.

Laurel: Debatable.

Nichole: Yeah. That's a hard service. Yeah. Um, so he basically tells me. In a way that he thinks is like totally okay that his wife isn't comfortable with us having sex and therefore we cannot have sex.

Daniel: What I think specifically, didn't he say like that his, his wife thought that your and his relationship was just, was moving too fast.

Nichole: Moving too fast.

Laurel: Oh, I do remember that

Nichole: part. Yeah.

Laurel: I don't remember though. Like, um,

Nichole: yeah, we were moving too fast after seeing each other for two months and not fucking

Laurel: what, but also she's been seeing some guy for six months and he is totally integrated into her, totally into life.

Nichole: Yep. Yep, yep. Um, and, uh, okay, they're having trips and sleepovers and like, she's barely at the house and like blah, blah, blah. So, um, I called him and I was like, yeah, I can't see you if you're letting your partner dictate our relationship. Yeah. He was kind of like, yeah, that makes sense. I, I admire your ability to like, put up a boundary.

And I was like, okay. Mm-hmm. and so I hung up like we had broken up. and then I got on Lexapro and a couple days later was like, maybe I'll text this guy.

Daniel: You know, you know, they say when you start Lexapro that you have to wait four to six weeks before you text that guy.

Laurel: Before you Yeah. Before you, yeah.

Nichole: I don't know why I did it. we had had such a good rapport going.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Um, and I really admired like, and. What he did for a living and how invested he was and, you know, politics and, and, but there were some flags at the beginning. There was like, I remember once he told me that I was intimidating.

and I was like, why? And he was like, I don't know, you dress really well and you, and you talk really articulately. And I was like, what were you expecting? Um,

Daniel: you do talk good.

Nichole: anyways, anyways, he, he said that I was intimidating and, and he also never really got any of my jokes. Like I had to explain a lot of my jokes.

Daniel: Mm mm.

Nichole: And my cultural references.

Daniel: And I wanna just throw out there that we, we met this guy.

Nichole: Yeah. A couple times.

Daniel: Yeah. Um, on the positive side. Cute. Really cute.

He was very cute. Well, that's it, that's it for the positive. No. Um, he, he seemed, he seemed sweet. Yeah, he seemed, he seemed, he seemed nice. Warm. Just like dull is a bag of bricks. sometimes it's okay when two people get together for there to be the funny one.

Mm-hmm.

But I don't think it should ever be so immediately clear. Who is the funny one? Like with absolutely no equivocation. I think that's a bad sign if you're like, oh, which one's the funny one?

And it's like, Nicole, before they, they finish asking.

Laurel: There can't be the unfunny one.

Daniel: Yeah,

Laurel: yeah,

Daniel: yeah, If one of them is the funny one and the other is the unfunny one. At least the unfunny one has to get and laugh at the funny one's. Jokes. This is

Nichole: he definitely laughed.

He just didn't understand any of them. No.

Daniel: Oh my God. That is, that is worse, right?

Laurel: I don't know, I was just thinking of stupid, like, like corporate buzz words. He was like, you don't have cultural synergy.

Nichole: I did describe him to my mom. Mm-hmm. As I was like, mom, he wears dockers. I don't think I've ever dated anybody who wears dockers.

Laurel: That was the most surprising thing about him to me.

Nichole: That he wears dockers.

Laurel: Yeah. Like I just was like, wow, you dress different. Different than anyone I've ever I

Nichole: know.

Laurel: Been in a same house with,

Nichole: yeah.

he would look appropriate with a lanyard around his neck.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: That has like his given a

Laurel: college tour.

Nichole: Yes, exactly.

just thinking about like, the beats in this relationship. Okay. So

we get back together.

Laurel: is that the poly mind fuck part?

Daniel: Oops. We got back together.

Nichole: Yes. Like this is the thing. Mm-hmm. Is that like you should believe people when they tell you who they are.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Right.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I was an idiot and I was like, well, we had such great rapport. Like I, I was really attracted to him.

I did really admire, like the kind of thing that he was putting out in the world as far as like the work that he did. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: since we can't really say what he did for a living. Can we like, make something up that's really inspirational so we're not like vague casting and so we're just lying.

Laurel: He would, he would,

Daniel: he saved birds, like birds with broken wings. Um, and not even working like he was freelance. He didn't even work for the Audubon Society, which is great. 'cause Audubon was super racist.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: So he, he, but he would, he would go around and if people didn't have no soliciting signs on their doors, he would be like, do you have any broken birds?

Laurel: And I was like, I do,

my bet was gonna be a lot more offensive.

Nichole: What was your, well now you have to say it

Laurel: so stupid bad.

gonna say that he would get debilitating illnesses, have, , have limbs amputated and then compete in the paralympic.

That was his job. He was so inspirational.

So that's what he does. And Rehabilitates birds when he is not training to compete in the Paralympics.

Nichole: So I imagine he knocks on the door and says, do you have any broken birds? And you go, yeah, you.

Daniel: And that's how, that's actually how the movie The Notebook ended, I believe.

Never seen The Notebook. It's another, another movie I've never seen, but

Laurel: it, it is based on this man's life.

Nichole: So we get back together, um, and we go on our first date after like not seeing each other for a while.

he tells me that in the intervening weeks he had actually asked for a divorce.

Laurel: Mm.

Nichole: Um, and she was moving out. Okay. Yeah. Um, basically to be monogamous with her partner.

Laurel: Well, checks out. Checks out. Yeah.

Nichole: So,

Daniel: Babe, is this still from this point forward?

A poly mine? Fuck. Because I think you had good reason to believe that things could improve. I don't think that,

Laurel: yeah,

Daniel: like

Laurel: yeah,

Daniel: like this is not a mistake on your part. that before we go any further,

I would like to change the track and begin for you and for us on your behalf, since we're pissed off, make this into a bone to pick.

Laurel: Let's pick that bone.

Nichole: All right. Maybe I can get angry again.

Laurel: Yeah. No, I think this is good

Nichole: wishy.

Laurel: Why wishy boo.

Daniel: I'm, I'm pinching and tickling Nicole now to make her angry.

Nichole: I'm good. I can, I can get angry all on my own.

Laurel: Okay. Alright.

Nichole: Okay. So we go on this date after not seeing each other for a while, right?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Um, and over the course of the date, he tells me, by the way, you know, like, I've been seeing this other person, and I'm like, yeah, I know.

Like you told me about her Yeah. A while ago. Um, and he's like, well, she's like really jealous of you that, and she's really jealous that like, I'm out tonight. And I was like, I don't need to know that information.

Laurel: You're like, cool. Okay, moving on.

Nichole: Yeah. I basically, like I told him straight up, I was like, I don't need to know when she's jealous of me.

Yeah. Um, or what any of your partners feel about me. Uh, because what am I supposed to do with that information? Yeah. That's not gonna, I'm not gonna change my behavior around that. Um, and that's really up to you to like and her to navigate.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: So, you know, we keep seeing each other.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: we're seeing each other typically on Saturdays.

Laurel: Okay.

Nichole: And I realize that Valentine's Day is gonna fall on a Saturday.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Right. I suggest, Hey, how about we all meet on Valentine's Day, since that's typically the day that you and I hang out?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: It's a Saturday. And like, what a great story to be able to say. Like, you met your Metamore

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: On Valentine's Day.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, it, it

Laurel: so beautiful.

Nichole: Well, it would be like, you know, a, a nice equal share of time. Maybe we all go home separately, like, you know. Mm-hmm. Just, it would be, I think it would be nice.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: And then he tells me like a week later, like she said, no. Okay. And I was like, okay.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: why? And he was like, well, she wants to spend Valentine's Day with me.

And I was like, and like, all right.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: But he says, okay, well. If you had some advice for somebody who was jealous, what would it be? And I said, okay.

Well, I would have her ask herself, is non-monogamy really something that I want? Because truly like, is it something that you actually want? Right. Because it's a lot of work.

Laurel: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: and it's a lot of navigating these kinds of things.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: second I would say, I don't know, get some friends, like develop some hobbies.

Laurel: Listen, loser. Did you, did you know her like experience with non-monogamy?

Nichole: I asked at, yeah. So her experience was that she had been non-monogamous, like her and her ex had opened up.

Laurel: Okay.

Nichole: And then they broke up.

Laurel: Okay.

Nichole: and they started dating when he was still married.

this person? Yeah,

Laurel: yeah, yeah.

Nichole: That I was dating. but I also know that, she was taking him through a lot of the monogamous milestones.

Daniel: Mm.

Nichole: You know, she introduced him to her parents.

Daniel: And did, did he get the ankle monitor yet?

Nichole: Not yet.

Daniel: Is the, um, what about

Laurel: the cock ring?

Daniel: Oh, yeah. The, yeah.

Nichole: I taught him what a taint was. He didn't know what a taint was before he started dating me. Yeah.

Laurel: He was wearing dockers.

Nichole: He had never been to a sex toy store.

Daniel: He was just terrified to look at the InBetween place. It's neither, it's neither balls nor buts. I, I cannot stand upon its inscrutability.

Nichole: He was not from England nor the eastern seaboard. So don't try and have that be a clue as to where he was born.

Daniel: He was Katherine Hepburn.

Laurel: Catherine Hebard knows what a teen is.

Nichole: She?

Daniel: Yes, she does.

Nichole: She invented thet. Um, Catherine up, maybe the poster for the episode is of Catherine up burn, inventor of the taint.

Daniel: We, but before we, we do

need to name these people.

Nichole: Okay.

Daniel: For the episode, so, okay. Okay. Okay. So,

Laurel: um,

Daniel: so first I have a name in, in mind for the, uh, for the girl. Okay. But I, I don't wanna drop it yet.

Laurel: Oh.

Daniel: Um, but for the guy, what's his, what's his name?

Doug Dockers.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Sure.

Nichole: Yeah, that works.

Laurel: Dougie Doc. Dougie Doc. Dockers. Dockers. Dougie. Dougie. Dockers,

Daniel: md

Laurel: Dougie. Dockers, md.

Nichole: No, we can't do that. 'cause he has a PhD. That's a different

Daniel: degree's.

Nichole: That's true. That's true.

Laurel: That's true. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. Is Dougie, Dockers md? Yeah.

Laurel: Okay.

Daniel: Dougie. Dockers.

Laurel: It's hard to say.

Nichole: It is.

Okay. So I guess I'm gonna call him Doug. I can't call him Dougie. Um, so I know that she's taking him through these monogamous milestones. Yeah. Right. Um, leaving a toothbrush, leaving all of her like shampoo and conditioner and all that stuff. Like

Laurel: have I taken Nancy on a monogamous milestone by giving her a toothbrush at my house?

Nichole: You gave her a toothbrush? I think it's different than leaving.

Oh, than like

Laurel: leaving, than like Surt. Yeah.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Oh yeah. Like I think as the, the homeowner you

Laurel: I gift you a toothbrush of my

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: Toothbrush menagerie.

Nichole: Well, yeah. Like Um, so I said like, I think that. She is taking you through the monogamous milestones, and it is not giving her the same kind of security that she's used to.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: Um, so she's doing the things she knows how to do without the same results.

Yeah. And therefore it is heightening her jealousy.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: So I would love to meet her and let her know that I'm not a threat.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Like, I'm like, I'm not gonna steal you away. I'm married one, two, like, I genuinely like to meet my metamours. Yeah. I like to get to know people. Yeah. I like, it's something that I, everyone has a story.

Right. Did

Laurel: you promise not to wear leopard print?

Nichole: I tried really hard to not be sexy. I did. I did. I tried.

So he suggests. Mini golfing, and I immediately laugh in his face.

Daniel: Now, this is my, this is my, I have a growing theory, okay? Mm-hmm. I have a growing theory.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel: I think that boring people

Laurel: like to mini golf

Daniel: cannot feel comfortable meeting new people outside of like the, the parameters of mini golf, like mini golf it's the framework by which they feel comfortable existing close to other people.

Laurel: which is why I can only participate in these kinds of things after building intimacy with people

Nichole: 1000%. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I think that it's a norm's way of thinking that they're like quirky and unique.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: We're gonna do this fun. Cute. We're gonna do blacklight mini golf.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Wow.

Nichole: What?

Daniel: Wow.

What

Daniel: Juy much.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yes. Thank you.

this brings me to my nickname. Oh. I think for the Metamore. The Metamour. Yeah. What do you think? Just auditioning this Ppu Patty,

Nichole: Dougie. Dockers. And put, put Patty,

Daniel: Dr. Dougie. Dockers.

Nichole: Oh God.

Daniel: And put, put Patty.

Nichole: Sure. So Patricia and Doug we're

Laurel: the worst, we're the worst people on the planet.

Nichole: I guess she acquiesces. Right.

Laurel: Okay.

Nichole: and agrees to go mini golfing.

Laurel: We will meet, but on my terms and my turf, basically my astro turf.

Nichole: So we meet up

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: At mini golf.

Laurel: You have a delightful game of mini golf.

Nichole: I mean,

Laurel: what did you put?

Nichole: I don't, I didn't number my strokes, but I did keep making jokes about strokes. Um,

Daniel: we should start a, uh, black light mini golf sex club for people who have a hard time interacting.

Otherwise, you know,

Laurel: it might do well, which is upsetting.

Nichole: Is it like naked mini golf?

Laurel: you get clothing optional. Yeah. And you get

Nichole: to fuck at the end.

Laurel: I mean, it's just like there, like there's a dance floor, there's mini golf,

Nichole: all right, okay.

Laurel: Couches to fuck on.

Nichole: So this is like kid zone, but for adults.

Laurel: Oh yeah.

Nichole: See, you started laughing and then, and then I was like, yeah, and then you were like, actually,

Laurel: actually, yes.

Nichole: Yeah,

Laurel: yeah,

Nichole: yeah. I think this in one of the many abandoned strip malls that we have here. Oh man. I think we

Laurel: can, we can turn the entire Lloyd Center into a dizzy discovery zone

Nichole: There is an empty Chuck E Cheese on Powell.

Daniel: I can't fucking empty Chucky cheese.

Nichole: It would be filled with cool things, cool arcade games, ball pit.

Daniel: It just makes, it just makes me too sad that there's no more animatronic, you know? Oh my

Nichole: God. That was their downfall.

Laurel: Those are terrifying.

Nichole: so, I learned so much about her.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I learned so much. I learned about her family history. I learned about her mother's seven siblings. Mm-hmm. I learned about her love of the outdoors. I learned where she went to college. I learned where she went to grad school. I learned, um, do you think

Laurel: you could, Steal her identity at this

Nichole: point? At this point, yes.

Laurel: Nice.

Nichole: Absolutely. Um,

Daniel: I think except that you're too hot.

Laurel: No, no, no. Just like, just to open credit cards. Not to like,

Daniel: no, not to single white female.

Laurel: God, Daniel. I

Nichole: was gonna see, I was gonna say something mean I gotta not Okay. Um, so many things. Yeah.

I learned so much. She asked me two questions.

Laurel: What do you remember the questions?

Nichole: Where was I born? Mm-hmm. What do I do for work?

Daniel: What are your intentions? With my boyfriend?

Nichole: Yeah. That, I mean, Um, and I called him the next day and I was like, so did she, you know, I had a great time.

Thank you so much. Please pass on my gratitude.

Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Because she took the time

Laurel: mm-hmm.

Nichole: to, you know, spend time with me. And I really appreciate that. And I know this was something that, um, was giving her some anxiety, so I just, you know, and I was like, did she say anything? And he's like, oh yeah. Um, you know, she needs to gather her thoughts.

And I was like,

Laurel: oh,

Nichole: okay.

Laurel: put, put, Patty is processing

Daniel: privately.

Laurel: Privately,

Nichole: um, for like two weeks.

Laurel: Oh my goodness.

Nichole: Um,

Laurel: okay.

Nichole: So like, I ask him again, he's like, oh, she like didn't get, you know, we didn't talk about it this week. And I was like, all right. And then like a another week goes by and I say like, Hey, I'm just gonna ask one more time. Like, did she have anything to say?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Um, and he said, oh yeah, uh, she thinks you're fine. And like,

Laurel: not fine.

Nichole: No, no. Just,

Laurel: just

Nichole: fine. Um,

Laurel: oh, okay.

Nichole: And I,

Laurel: okay,

Daniel: Nicole is completely acceptable.

Nichole: Yeah, that's, that was what she was saying.

Daniel: I have very few, if any, objections to Nicole existing

Laurel: met expectations. Yeah.

Nichole: I'm a C average.

Laurel: This is like in art school when we weren't allowed to say, like, in critique, you weren't allowed to say anything is interesting.

Daniel: Oh.

Laurel: Which is a great rule.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: That is a great rule.

Laurel: If I'm saying my metamours fine, I'm like, please don't make me hang out with that person again.

Nichole: Oh, 1000%. but also like, that wasn't what I asked.

Laurel: Right. You're like, let's,

Nichole: like, I wanna know, not her opinion of me. Yeah. I wanna know how this went for her. How is she feeling about it?

Laurel: Yeah. It seems like she hasn't deconstructed her monogamy mindset.

And you're working with this person who's new to polyamory, you're trying to figure out what the vibes are.

Nichole: Yeah,

Laurel: yeah,

Nichole: yeah. I mean, I felt bad 'cause I laughed in his face instantly. 'cause I thought it was a hilarious response.

Daniel: now you do laugh in this guy's face a lot.

Nichole: I do. You're right. So that's, that's why this is a poly mind.

Fuck. Oops. Um,

Daniel: I mean, I guess it's better than like waiting for him to turn around. I was like, laugh behind his back.

Nichole: Yes.

so I was just kind of flummoxed. Um,

Laurel: yeah, you're like, okay.

Nichole: you know, I asked him in that conversation I was like.

So, do you want non-monogamy?

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: He was like, yes, for the foreseeable future. And I was like, okay, will you tell me if that changes?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: And he was like, I feel like you're trying to get at a specific answer. Like, you think that I'm gonna be monogamous with Patricia? And I was like, I'm not trying to get a specific answer.

I've just dated people who told the person in front of them what they wanna hear.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: so

we get to yesterday, haven't seen each other in a couple weeks. He got sick.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: and so I go over there, uh, 'cause we have plans, you know, we're gonna hang out for a little bit, we're gonna go get dinner, and then we were gonna go to this art opening and. I show up and he kisses me.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: And then we make out for a little bit.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: You know, um,

Daniel: Ooh, you didn't describe this to me with the make out part

Nichole: before? It was definitely making out for sure.

Daniel: Yeah. It wasn't just a kiss.

Nichole: No.

Daniel: Yeah,

Nichole: it was. And then like we, you know, we were holding hands and just like being next to each other on the couch. Mm-hmm. Talking politics or whatever.

And then I get up to go to the bathroom, and I come back

Daniel: and Patty is on the couch.

Nichole: Patty is there

Laurel: with

Nichole: her

Laurel: toothbrush?

Nichole: No, but like, her books are everywhere.

Laurel: Oh, okay. She's moving in.

Nichole: She's ba Yes. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. No, she, there are signs of her everywhere.

Daniel: Yeah. Okay. And it's like a stack of copies of Magnetize Man.

Nichole: he's like, well, I have to tell you something. And I was like, okay. He was like, you know, I was really sick last week and it gave me a lot of time to think. and I wanna pursue my relationship with Patricia Monogamously.

Laurel: I'm sorry.

Wait.

A number one, we're gonna make out first.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And then I'm gonna tell you this.

Nichole: We're gonna make out, we're gonna talk about what we're gonna go do later. We're gonna try and make some plans for dinner.

Daniel: I'm having you come to my abode, which is across town from the place that we were actually planning on going later on.

Laurel: Wow. Okay.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: thanks for letting me know, bro.

Nichole: So the first thing I said, this is why it's a poly mine. Fuck.

Laurel: You know,

Nichole: first thing I said was

Laurel: she could eat my cunt.

Daniel: Nicole thinks that we are going to like judge her for saying terrible things when, like,

Laurel: when, that's all I do for a living.

Nichole: Is judge me for saying terrible things.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: It's a whole

Nichole: business. So I,

Daniel: it's a cottage, cottage industry judging.

Nichole: So I'm correct. I dunno what Daniel's trying to prove. first thing I said was good luck.

It was the first thing that came to my head.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: and then I said, this meeting could have been an email.

Daniel: You

think this is a po. Like

Laurel: that's funny.

Daniel: I don't think that, I don't think that a good sick burn. Is a poly mine. Fuck. I think that that's, I feel like that's, it gets

Nichole: worse.

Daniel: I feel like that's excellent. work.

Nichole: So I'm silent for a little bit and I was like, I'm really trying not to diagnose you, and I wanna try to keep my side of the street clean.

And he was like, well, I am really interested in what you have to say. And I was like, okay, well

I was really excited for you to figure out what you wanted, and um, who you're going to be on your own. And I don't think you can be alone. I don't think you know how to be alone. also, it really hurt when your ex-wife like dictated what our relationship could be.

And it's pretty fucking obvious that now you're letting another person dictate what our relationship could be.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: and he was like, well, I came to this conclusion on my own. And I said, sure. And then I walked out the door.

Laurel: Oh my God.

Daniel: is it unethical to speak truth?

Laurel: Sometimes.

Nichole: I mean, he is not in a place to hear it, you know? And who knows if it is the truth? Maybe they're deeply in love.

Laurel: in a, in a codependent kinda way,

Nichole: she. See, this is the shit that we can't include, but I can tell you too.

Yeah.

Laurel: I want to hear it.

Daniel: I mean, once you say it into the microphone, I can just take the recorder and run.

Nichole: Can't get very far

Laurel: running down the block.

Nichole: she's boring as hell.

Laurel: a good match.

Daniel: Who's a better match for Dr. Dougie? Dockers than PP Patty?

Nichole: yet again, it was a more boring, younger woman that this guy has to be with in a monogamous setting I'm just here going like, well, I was nothing but truthful the entire fucking time. I was nothing but being myself the entire fucking time. And it's not fucking good enough.

Laurel (2): I don't like it's not, it's not a matter of good enough . In fact, it's like the opposite. it is challenging when there's someone who is like autonomous, realized independent and absolutely desirable.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: That is so fucking challenging to so many people. Why? Especially codependent people. Because they are afraid.

Nichole: Of what

Laurel: themselves living an actual full life. This is why authoritarianism is so fucking popular.

Daniel: Hmm.

Nichole: I'm

Laurel: a dictator.

no, no,

Daniel: no, no,

Laurel: no, no. They want a dictator and you are liberation.

They want someone that is just going to keep the status quo so that they can be comfortable in the same boring bullshit life that they have lived up until that point.

Daniel: Do you remember the other day when we were talking about why time seems like it's been passing more quickly in the modern age?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: And

Laurel: Nicole was like, we're old,

Daniel: My, my point was that we are all like basically catatonic for more of our life as the, internet gets, its tendrils all in us.

It's, it's a lot like getting a colonoscopy where you go through like a kind of a time travel thing where you just close your eyes and then you like wake up and you're like, where did fucking two hours go?

Mm-hmm.

Right. So you just like lose time. And I think that that's what we do when we are now on our phones, right? We lose time. because we're kind of in an unconscious state and we do the same thing when we're overloaded by the fucking news and by the disasters all around us, we go into kind of like a state of unconsciousness.

And this just made me think that authoritarianism is a little bit of the, the same kind of thing, and that people are yearning for it to a certain extent. They're like, take away from me the agony of awareness and existence.

Mm-hmm.

Like I am more comfortable asleep. that's what's going on.

Like he can't deal with the discomfort of existing consciously, and so he needs somebody there. To be his controller. Like there's a set of parameters that is the other person's anxious attachment. And if you are living your life to fucking satisfy this, that's a lot of clarity.

Wake up in the morning and I'm like, what am I going to do? I'm going to satisfy p Patty's anxious attachment. My life has meaning and clarity.

Nichole: One, I did not mean for this poly mindfuck to become a referendum on authoritarianism,

Laurel: but it has ' cause it's all connected

Nichole: and I do appreciate it. Um, two.

I fucking refuse. I refuse, I refuse. Life is too goddamn short.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Like, and I've done this before. I did all of this

Laurel: Uhhuh

Nichole: in my early twenties mm-hmm. Uhhuh, when I stayed with a guy who kept breaking up with me because he said I was too fat.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: And I kept losing weight for him. And I kept like, well, this gives me meaning, this gives me purpose.

Yeah. This gives me, like, if I can whittle myself down to be the perfect person for him, I have won.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: And like, I just don't wanna live like that anymore.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: I want to experience things. Yeah. I don't understand the appeal. I don't, I mean, you, you map it out logically and that I understand, you know?

Yeah. But like, I can't imagine living, having lived this way. I can't imagine living that other way. Oh yeah. Anymore. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Like

Laurel: you took the red pill baby.

Nichole: Is it? I can never

Laurel: keep up in, in the way that, the

Daniel: Wachowskis originally

Laurel: intended meant it.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

you're trans.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: I was fucking angry because I think that he thinks that he did what I asked him to, which was tell me

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Um, that he wanted to be monogamous.

Yeah. What I didn't ask him to do was like, make plans with me. Tell me that I'm cute and dirty, Okay. So I saved. The worst thing he said, for right now, he said this yesterday before we had this breakup conversation. Mm-hmm. And I did have the thought of like, oh, I don't, I don't know about this.

Daniel: Yeah.

He

Nichole: looked me in the eye and he said,

Daniel: I hate Jews.

Nichole: It's close to that. Oh,

Daniel: oh,

Nichole: well, is it? Maybe not. he said, why did we ever domesticate dogs? He

like, he doesn't understand why humans as a species chose to domesticate dogs.

Laurel: Oh, that is, that is one thing I noticed about him. The only thing he told me about his dog was that it annoyed him. He was. And I was like, that's a problem.

Nichole: He was so annoyed by his dog.

Laurel: do we need to liberate that dog?

Nichole: I almost want to take that dog and give it to my other partner who loves do and specifically loves this kind of dog. Oh, we

Daniel: gotta, and he lost out on that because like, he's no longer like non-monogamous. Like, this is how you rehouse your annoying dog. This is what Metamours are for. Somewhere. There is a Metamore who, who wants

Nichole: your annoying dog?

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: Can we call him on speaker phone right now and adopt the dog and then give it to your other partner?

Nichole: I mean,

Daniel: she's thinking about it. She's thinking about it.

Laurel: we can make out first.

That's fine.