Daniel: We just had Passover here

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: A very, a very poly Passover, which is one of my favorite holiday movies.

Lots of people that we, are fucking, maybe fucking in the future few family members, unrelated to that category.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: And I had a thought,

Laurel: okay.

Daniel (2): Since Passover occurs now in April, I was thinking, are the 10 plagues metaphors for seasonal allergies?

Laurel: Um, I'm gonna say no, but this is like really, illustrative of how like men just react to minor illness. I mean,

Daniel: you say this after seeing like my allergies in action,

Laurel: The drama of your symptomatic response is just like tenfold. Whereas like Nicole and I feel like shit, we're just not making a thing about it.

Daniel: Wow.

Nichole: This reminds me of the Donner Party.

Daniel: I am actually old enough. This does remind me of the Donner Party,

Nichole: right? You're part of the Oregon Trail Generation. Right. so the, book, the Indifferent Stars above, is a history of the Donner Party.

Yeah. And basically the thesis is. Women can basically survive anything. And men, like, there were men in the Donner party who literally just laid down in the snow and died. Whereas the women were like, we're gonna boil shoes, we're gonna keep all the children alive. Like they, they just like, they were planners and they were like,

Daniel: oh my God.

But those men, you know, it was because , they're kind of bring home the bacon kind of energy providers, lay down and died so that women would have something to eat. You're welcome.

Laurel: No,

Daniel: it's dinner time.

Laurel: Oh my God.

Nichole: Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour.

Laurel: I'm Laurel.

Daniel: I'm Daniel.

Nichole: I'm Nicole.

today we are talking about pop culture,

Laurel: Is it even popular discourse?

Nichole: If we're like three months too late?

Laurel: like, I think it's one of those things where it's like, just because I know who this person is, doesn't mean they're famous.

Nichole: Yeah, Daniel tells me that all the time with the references that I make

Daniel: I feel like Lindy West is niche famous in the west coast This may be the most famous which she has ever become to catch UBS up. Lindy West has recently come out with a memoir for poorer things such as ourselves called Adult Braces. And everyone has an opinion on this. and so since the entire nation is already providing their unsolicited opinions on this topic, we thought that this would be a great opportunity for our segment.

That wasn't a question.

Nichole: I mean, technically it was because we did have an anonymous Stewart write in and ask us to talk about it.

Laurel: Yes, this is true.

Daniel: one , Stewart asked our opinion, the rest of the country in a chorus cried out.

Laurel: No, no, don't tell us.

Nichole: so Lindy West, was a staff writer on The Stranger, which was a weekly alternative newspaper in Seattle.

so I was living in Seattle at the time when when Lindy West was. A staff writer. I remember the day, when Lindy West wrote on the Slog, a takedown of Dan Savage's Fat Phobia.

Laurel: Mm.

Nichole: Basically saying like, I'm a fat woman.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I'm also your coworker.

and from that, uh, she launched into Jezebel. She launched into The Guardian. She published a book called Shrill, that got made into a three season Hulu TV show starting AIE Bryant.

And, all the while I've been, I've just been reading along

Daniel: Importantly though, and we should say, we have all very pointedly not read her most recent memoir. I think in part to be on brand for the podcast because we really wanna make sure that we don't really know what we're talking about.

two, to be on brand for the segment, which is like this unsolicited opinion.

I think it's always a little bit more appropriate when it's an ungrounded opinion.

Laurel: I like it.

Nichole: So, she marries this person named a ham who now identifies as like a he and also they them. Mm-hmm. and it was kind of a part of her like shift in that she's like, look at this conventionally attractive man who is attracted to my fat body.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Right. And I think it signaled for her throughout her writing, it's always been like, I mean, besides the very strong stances she took with Dan Savage, she's very self-deprecating.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: So getting married to a conventionally attractive person

Daniel: mm-hmm.

Was.

Nichole: I think a shift in her psyche of like, now I'm accepted.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: He was, he's conventionally attractive except for he is a jazz musician.

Nichole: Oh baby, you're a jazz musician.

Daniel: I know.

Laurel: That's what this is Daniel's own brand of self-deprecating work.

Daniel: His most recent show is like a combination of like playing the trumpet and spoken word.

Nichole: Sure.

Daniel: Which strikes me as like two of the most loud things a man can do. Like if you've started to get like a nerd to my Yeah.

Spoken word,

uhhuh.

Daniel: I have like a trumpet and I'm like, ready?

Laurel: Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is someone who really needs to express themselves.

Daniel: Yes,

Laurel: yes.

Nichole: And express himself. They do. so we find out the public Johnny John Q Public, through a video that is uploaded, I think to YouTube in 2022, with Lindy West, her husband, and a third person named Ro.

They kind of come out in this video as being in a polyamorous relationship. And apparently like the comments have been turned off on this video, but it's like, it's rife with like, what the fuck, what's happening? And I think a lot of that backlash is probably like anti poly backlash. Yes. Right? Yeah. Like not knowing anything about these people.

No one in the comments understands who this third person is. Yeah. They don't know the dynamics of their relationship. It's just being like, wow, you're gross.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Who is this third person? They're not famous.

Nichole: Yeah. Like I, I mean, , it's regular take, you know, like , this is just what people do.

Laurel: Yeah.

I will like sidebar like. I did not follow Lindy West's career. Like I recognized her name. 'cause I was like, I used to read Jezebel I think when I fell out of sort of like my, like uber angry feminist phase

mm-hmm.

a lot of that like style of writing kind of like fell off with it.

Like that and like McSweeney's, like the super, like snarky kind of,

Nichole: yes.

Laurel: Ironic.

Nichole: Yep.

Laurel: Writing like

Daniel: snarky and twee.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: A feminist with a ukulele.

Laurel: Yeah. And like so kind of like fell off the bandwagon.

And I'm not, please don't be confused. I am still certainly angry and still certainly a feminist. I'm just not an angry feminist.

Daniel: And you got rid of the ukulele. Thank God.

Nichole: That's the best opening to any TV show I've ever seen is crashing, Phoebe Waller Bridge and she's playing a ukulele on a bus going somewhere and she's obviously being like, you know, that twee like, yeah.

manic, pixie dream girl. And then somebody's like, Ah, good. It was great. It was great. So Lindy West recently comes out with this book, adult Braces, it's a coming out of, we're in a polyamorous relationship and this is how it happened.

Daniel: Yep.

Nichole: My husband told me when we got married that he had to be non-monogamous.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: he did sleep with other women that I didn't know about.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: I find out, from a fan messaging me and, then he starts dating this woman Roya. And then I kind of figure out that like, I love Roya too, and now we're here.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Oh, that was a Lord. Okay. Um,

Laurel: I didn't know that till you said it.

Nichole: so we now get to the part where we get to talk about the backlash and then the backlash to the backlash

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: As we have experienced it. And then we're

Laurel: gonna backlash to that backlash of the backlash.

Nichole: again, we have not read this book. No. Um,

Laurel: here's, here's part of the trouble for it with me is 'cause I've, I've read a couple pieces about it and then I've read some people arguing and comments about it. And people can't seem to decide like what Lindy West actually wrote.

Mm-hmm.

Nichole: I mean, the main backlash is that people are saying that her husband coerced her into polyamory.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: And that obviously it's not something that she wants, but she's going along with it anyway.

And now she's trying to convince us that she wants it.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel (2): And furthermore, I feel like. This audience that is from this backlash position, the original backlash, not the Meta backlash or the meta meta backlash, it also like expands to be an indictment of polyamory in general.

Laurel: Yeah. They're using it as like a straw man for that polyamory on whole is just a mechanism for abusive men to abuse women.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: And then also from a little bit toward the, toward the right and some, some from the left, They're using it to discredit specifically what they're calling millennial feminism.

Laurel: Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: and for me, this is. Hilarious.

Laurel: Yes. Go on. Nut tell.

Daniel: Just like this swarm of piranhas that are either reading or pointedly not reading a book with the goal in mind of finding the guilty.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: Who, who is guilty of either, , shitty male behavior, who is guilty of fake feminism, Like the idea that there are, this many people out there in the world who are both hate reading and. Hate pretending to read.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yes. And just, just lying in, wait to pass judgment. Now we have the final evidence here is the evidence that polyamory doesn't work and that millennial feminists are dumb.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah. so many of the takes are stupid, like and I have seen a lot of the like, millennial feminism is dead or whatever takes. Mm-hmm. And the whole idea that one, that there is millennial feminism.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Is fucking stupid. Yeah. One, a lot of the times when they try to like bolster this premise with any kind of argument, they also have a deep misunderstanding of what feminism of the time was like. Some people have called Lindy West Girl Boss feminism, which is like not, whoa. Not even at all.

Accurate or indicative of Her position on anything.

Nichole: Yeah. Absolutely not.

Laurel: so it's a bunch of people like kind of mushing together some buzz words that they've heard over time and then like writing a substack about it.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Which is stupid. but also like, what a premise to think that, Any kind of ideology lives and dies on the actions of one person who wrote about it sometimes.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. I feel like as a culture, we do this all the time.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: One, I remember the backlash against, Lena Dunham doing something.

I don't remember which moment it was.

I remember the main headline was, will White Feminists finally Not put Lena Dunham on a Pedestal? And again, the idea that like one person embodies all of the ideals of feminism and that she also, I like, embodies intersectional feminism that's why we can't put people on pedestals.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: They will fail us all the time.

Laurel: Yes. I think this is why like, I think I, like Ashley Ray's takes on this. the most interesting thing about this entire conversation to me is what she brings up, which is like, this isn't a failure of polyamory or of feminism or of Lindy West it, it's a failure of the attention economy.

Mm mm-hmm.

And, just like our notion of fame in which people are expected to live their lives for an audience

Daniel: I feel like there's some kind of, um, psychological loop that we all go through as a culture that's ravenous for this type of drama. Mm-hmm. Where we then ensue, like the end cycle of this is always us coming to tear somebody apart.

Laurel: Always from

Daniel: one. Yeah.

Laurel: Always. Because nobody can live up to the expectations Yeah.

Of like being a public figure.

Daniel: Lindy West is just like Jesus.

Laurel: Just like Jesus.

I mean, part of why I think all of these like takes are so stupid is like, even if any of the projections that people put onto this work are true.

It doesn't fucking matter. Like it's not important to you.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And like, it could be important in the sense of like, reading anything fiction or nonfiction can be helpful in your process of self-discovery But to make any statement about Lindy West personally

Nichole: Yep.

Laurel: Assume you know anything about her life, and then to extrapolate that into commentary on feminism or polyamory is just like fucking dumb.

Daniel: I feel so sorry. For millennials serious. You're the

Nichole: only one. Everybody else

Daniel: I know,

Laurel: everyone else is like, fuck you, you're up, you this avocado toast.

Daniel: This is what I'm saying is like I saw in my lifetime as, Haggard aged Gen Xer, I saw millennials go from the kids who were being blamed for everything. From like the demise of the top sheet.

Laurel: Yeah. What, yeah.

Daniel: To the rise of soul numbing social media At one point you all were the ultimate scapegoat for all things young and shitty.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: and then you skipped over the part where you were looked to as like elder, role models or like cultural, you know, ambassadors of a bygone era.

You went straight to being lumped in with the boomers and being treated like boomers. Yeah. We, to the point where you affix millennial. Ahead of feminism and it takes on this aura. And people

Laurel: think it means something.

Daniel: Yeah. They think it means, old white lady feminism. Okay.

Millennial. Like, like that's, that's like the, the vibe that it gives off. And it's,

Laurel: which

Daniel: is, that is crazy.

Nichole: We can't win. We're, we're never gonna win. We're always gonna be The shit on generation

so then you also get the response from Lindy and her family.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: So I think it's, I. Interesting. Um, of the podcast and the substack and the articles that I've read about this. Yeah. there's one thread that really sticks out to me. Yeah. on Slate's culture podcast, uh, I-C-Y-M-I

Laurel: mm-hmm.

Nichole: In case you missed it. where the hosts talk about, she writes in a self-deprecating manner.

Laurel: yeah.

Nichole: And she writes about these bad things that her husband did.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: And now we're in a place where she's like, but he's a good guy.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: And all we have is the information that she supplied us.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: But then we also have his actions, which are not great.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Like he is in the comments.

Basically telling people how awful they are and how bitter they are and how dumb they are. And that doesn't help the case necessarily.

Laurel: No.

Daniel: He's also like sending audio messages of just him playing trumpet really loudly

Laurel: and then doing his spoken word.

Daniel: Yeah,

Laurel: you are an asshole.

I don't like what you think of me.

Daniel: That's like a horse sound horse trumpet itself.

Laurel: Yeah, it is like, I mean there is like, yeah, his, was it aham and.

Nichole: Roya

Laurel: Roya that wrote, did they write one email to the slate? I don't.

Daniel: Two. It was just a hum. I thought it was.

Nichole: Nope,

Daniel: both

Nichole: of them did.

Laurel: They wrote angry emails.

Daniel: Wait, was it one email that was co-signed by both of them?

Nichole: Nope.

Laurel: Two separate emails. Yes. obviously people are gonna like write their stupid takes about

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel (2): Like polyamory in Lindy's book. I think once you start, being bitchy on the internet, like, then it's just kind of funny for me, Uhhuh like, you're being a bitch.

Okay. You're being a little bitch on the internet. Like, it is sort of the play stupid games, win stupid prizes kind of thing. I just don't know how we go from the point of like, yeah, the, this guy seems like an asshole to like, I need to write a think piece about how this guy is an asshole.

Daniel: There have been two New York Times op-eds

Michelle Goldberg, like their premier op-ed writer, one of the top writers. She has never written anything about polyamory before, but it's, she's like, oh shit. Well, people are talking about this. There's

Laurel: drama on the internet. I best be involved in myself.

Daniel: because like us, they didn't read the book.

That said, we have all decided in classic poly amateur hour fashion, we will be reading the book Now after we have presented all these opinions. Right?

Laurel: Yeah. We have Pucking around coming up first.

Daniel: Yeah,

Laurel: so everyone read Pucking around Way more fun than the backlash. Way to

Nichole: way more fun.

Daniel: What is this book Pucking around?

Laurel: What is this book? Pucking around? It's hockey smut. It's, why choose Hockey Romance? in our first forays into hockey smut, pucking around, came up from several people, as suggested reading for Is This Polly. So read it and then we will discuss if it's Polly and if you wanna read it and send little thoughts to us about it Oh. That you'd like us to chit chat about on the air. do that we'll have Alex Alberto coming on to book club it with us, This is acclaimed author Alex Alberto. Not the author of Pucking Around.

No,

Nichole: no.

Daniel: They're the author of Entwined

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: A memoir about polyamory, which we all love. Yeah. And we are so flattered that they are willing tolum it with us.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: And come on. Always

Laurel: honored

Daniel: and read about hockey smut.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: and I don't remember any backlash to entwine. I'm

Daniel: Why would you pick on the Canadian?

Laurel: Yeah, that's rude.

Daniel: They're so nice.

Laurel: Come on. It's just rude.

Daniel: picking on the West Coast millennial though.

Laurel: it's kind of like this constant telescoping event that we try to do with like the personal is political and the political is personal, where we try and take someone's life.

Mm-hmm.

a real fucking human being.

Yeah.

And like micro, macro it constantly. Yeah.

Yeah.

And it doesn't make any sense to do that. With any person.

Yeah.

Nichole: But if you guys wanna do that with us, um, and like, help us get famous, go for it.

Laurel: Do it That's the other thing where I'm like, is this all just like a fucking like publicity stunt?

Is that all this is, is like if like, oh, if we write, write a couple shitty emails, that'll just keep us in the news cycle for another week and maybe we can actually sell some more copies of this book.

Nichole: I would hope not from Wendy West.

Daniel: I don't think they saw this coming.

A lot of the, like the educators, influencers, , content creators that we talk to are very honest about like their shitty entry turbulence into the world of polyamory.

Yeah. And how things were very much less than ideal.

Laurel: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: But Lindy West didn't talk a ton about her polyamory before this book. So her first like big, share to the world about what this was like, was about the poly under duress ness of it.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: And that's why I think you don't see a lot of people from the poly community also maybe coming to her, defense

Laurel: like do you think more people should come to herd defense

Daniel: I think more people would come to her defense if she had been kind of more vocal about polyamorous.

Laurel: Oh, she were like in the polyamorous community?

Daniel: Yes. Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yeah. I think it is in a similar vein of like, Turfy fy

Daniel: mm-hmm.

Laurel: Feminism,

like a lot of people, because they don't know the difference between polygeny and polyamory

mm-hmm.

Think that polyamory in and of itself is somehow like patriarchal and repressive to women.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And so if you have, or cultivating, maybe not necessarily even just like a fan base, but a circle or realm in which you are interacting with or within Certain feminist discourse.

Yeah.

There are gonna be people who are, vehemently opposed and like self righteously, so mm-hmm. To like anything that looks like, like you aren't doing feminism justice. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But they also love to shit on other women for this.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: like you've talked about this in other contexts, Nicole, of like that, like vacillating between, Oppressor and oppressed.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel (2): But as a tool that a single person can use for their own like advantage . But I think it is also a tool used by people who want to critique other people to make Lindy West, both the victim and the perpetrator at the same time.

She's both a victim of her husband's non-monogamy, but also is a irresponsible perpetrator. Of normalizing.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: she's a perpetrator because she's a victim. Right. the twisted logic here is that because she let herself

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: Be victimized.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Yes. She is a perpetrator upon the wider public for setting a bad example.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: not your Lindy best.

Nichole: And this all just reminds me, this, this takes me back. To my favorite Lindy West pieces, in like 2010, 2011.

the stranger offices used to be right next door to a value village. And Lindy West would go to the value village. She found a hat that had a zipper pocket on it, so she had a series called What's In My Hat. And she would put different things in the hat.

Yeah. And people would have to guess what was in the,

Daniel: once you start that high, anything subsequent is gonna,

with your permission.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: I would like to perhaps move along home to another segment that is completely devoid of all the fucking judgments and bullshit that. Human beings put upon other human beings,

Nichole: uhhuh,

Daniel: because I think that, you know, in the animal kingdom, everything is permissible.

Nichole: So this is animal magnetism?

Laurel: Animal magnetism is the segment where we talk about polyamory and the wild, the wild life frontier.

Daniel: This comes to us from Instagram, it is a post from Ventana Wildlife Sanctuary.

Laurel: Ooh.

Daniel: It's got this lovely picture of a very handsome,

Laurel: Turkey vulture. What

Daniel: is that? A very handsome vulture.

Nichole: Aw,

Daniel: Mike's bird.

Nichole: Is that the name of the vulture?

Daniel: Yes.

Nichole: Mike's Bird.

Daniel: Mike's Bird.

Nichole: Mike's Bird Lemonade. Go on.

Daniel: Ew.

Nichole: It's lemonade for birds.

Daniel: Oh, I thought it was like, I thought it was bird flavored. It just kind of feathers and feet. Just mainly what a bird's made outta is feathers and feet.

Laurel: That's what's under all those feathers

Daniel: is a

Laurel: bunch of feet.

Nichole: That's what God was doing when he was like, I'm gonna make birds, feathers, feet.

Daniel: A little beak.

Nichole: A little beak.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Mike's bird, 5, 6, 6. That's his bird number, I suppose.

Laurel: Oh.

Daniel: Hatched at the LA Zoo on April 22nd, 2010, and was released in Big Sur in 2011.

he was introduced to the wild by our unforgettable field crew leader, Mike Tyner.

Less than a day after this bird's release. A terrible windstorm swept up suddenly on the Coast Ridge taking Mike's life in a tragic accident.

Nichole: Oh my God. Mike the person.

Daniel: Mike the person. Okay. The bird lives on. Okay. You seem relieved that it was the person.

Nichole: No, I, no, I'm just trying to follow the story. Okay.

Daniel: Mike's bird carries on his wings. The memories of Mike Ty's diverse and deeply felt contributions to the California Condor recovery effort.

Laurel: Hmm.

Daniel: When the new VWS release site was up and running in San Simeon in 2025, Mike's Bird immediately claimed the territory with his mate. Lupine The pair attempted to nest in the San Simeon area for two years, but were unsuccessful. Lupine passed away after their second failed nesting attempt. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Mike's bird has had a lot of tragedy in his life. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. I mean, to be fair, he didn't really know, Mike.

Nichole: You don't know that?

Laurel: Yeah. You don't know

Nichole: that he's named for Mike.

Daniel: Do you think Mike like nursed him with a little

Nichole: yes, yes. Bottle? Absolutely.

Daniel: Okay.

Laurel: Regurgitated food into his mouth.

Nichole: It's less. That's less cute. Okay. Alright. Lupine is dead.

Daniel: Mike's bird repaired. with Semon release mail. Big gulp. Big gulp.

Laurel: Wow.

Daniel: Big Gulps Bird number. They give them all numbers.

Guess what? Big Gulps bird number is?

Laurel: 69.

Nichole: Seven 11.

Daniel: Yeah. And female Condor. Just condor and female condo. Get a fucking name. Fuck. 7 25.

Laurel: Yeah. So he gets together with Big Gulp.

Nichole: Big Gulp, and

Laurel: um, which I think is kind of like a derogatory name for a gay bird.

Nichole: I'm trying to think of a name for, this is her name. Slushy.

Daniel: Deep. Deep Beak. Deep Beak. Is that better than?

Laurel: Alright, go on.

Big gulp and condor,

Daniel: Mike's bird, big gulp and condor. Were, were a thro at this point.

Laurel: Okay.

Daniel: Yeah. The trio raised their first chick condor. I guess they just name all the ones that just like, bored.

You know?

Laurel: That's not helpful.

Nichole: It's not,

Laurel: it's like when people on Reddit are like, my partner A and my metamore B and then A told B and then B told C.

Nichole: Yeah. Confusing.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Oh my God, you guys, I wanna start something right now. Like poly amateur hour tradition.

Laurel: Uhhuh,

Daniel: just as we call ourselves the three goal

Laurel: uhhuh.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Like that's our, what we identify as. I think that when we are referring to partners who do not yet want to be named on the podcast, we call them Mark Condors.

Nichole: Yeah. Yep. Okay. And they're just known as Condor?

Daniel: Condor. Condor, yeah.

Nichole: Yep.

Laurel: I like it.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Great resolution passed,

Laurel: well, I guess once they graduate to X, then they get their own

Daniel: moniker.

Big Gulp.

Laurel: Oh my God.

Nichole: Okay. What happened with this Thro door?

Daniel: Well, the trio raised their first Chick Condor Junior, who unfortunately died.

Nichole: God Damnit.

Daniel: No. In the Dolan fire in 2020. No,

Nichole: this has to have a happy ending, or I'm gonna revolt.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel (2): let's see. Mike's bird was later determined to be the biological father of Condor who.

Care like, like you did the genetic test just to make certain now that it was your kid who died. That's fucked up, fucked up Ventana Wildlife Society.

Nichole: But thank you for your work.

Daniel: Despite losing both their mate and Chick, Mike's Bird and Big Gulp remained dedicated mates to one another.

They were seen displaying to one another and defending their territory in Simeon from other adult condors. This is like the, the queer couple who, you know, despite the fact that they only have one partner right now, they're still poly. People are like, are you really poly? 'cause you're like,

Laurel: wait, did Condor, the senior leave,

Daniel: I think Condor, the senior died

Nichole: also.

The baby chick.

Daniel: Yeah. Well, they didn't like say it ex explicitly, but I feel like they just want us to take it for granted that like, if you don't see a condor for like a few seconds in this story that they probably died.

Nichole: Okay.

Laurel: Okay.

Daniel: Although they couldn't produce Chick on their own, both birds acted as excellent mentors to other captive bread condors upon their release into the wild.

In Semon, Mike's Bird and Big Gult taught these rookies important behaviors like how to catch thermals while flying, tear into a carcass, and show respect to the more dominant birds in the flock. It's like older gay men.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Daniel: In the community.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Thank you for your service.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Sadly,

Laurel: no dam it

Daniel: Big Gulp was found dead in February of 2023. Mike's Bird continues to maintain his territory in sand Semon and has since paired with Romeo. Oh. Aw. Our biologists are keeping an eye on them in hopes they will find a female to form a trio with.

Aw.

Laurel: Aww.

Daniel: I like the, the idea of all these scientists just waiting around for this poly cool to form.

Laurel: Dude, conjures live a long time,

Nichole: apparently. Yeah.

Laurel: What's the lifespan of a condor?

Nichole: Mike's Bird lives a long time. None of Mike's Bird. This is true.

Partners or children live very long, long

Daniel: coincidence.

Laurel: Yes. Mike's bird just cursed. Is he like some kind of demon? Like, I

Nichole: dunno. I feel like there would be a Dateline episode about this. If this was a person.

Laurel: This is true. This is true. Anything that's come into contact with Mike's bird has just fucking died within months.

Daniel: I've got a few comments.

Laurel: gay

Daniel: Carry on Mike's Bird. Best of luck to you and your mates.

Laurel: Aw,

Daniel: Thank you for the update long Live. 5 66.

Seems like there might be a lot. Condors can teach us about community building and strength in pairing up for survival of the species, no matter the sex. The strategy of trios is very interesting. Please share more about this if possible. Is this a comment from us?

Nichole: We need more content. Please.

Daniel: and then, uh, just I love it.

Nichole: Oh, all right. Well, this is a wholesome corner of the internet that I can get behind except for all the bird death and the, and the people death.

Laurel: The death is hard. The,

Daniel: A lot of people dunno this too, but, big Gulp actually like, uh, coerced shut up Co.

Mike's Bird

Laurel: he didn't tell Mike's bird until they were already married.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Uh, also, I'm polyamorous and here's Condor.

Daniel: She does not receive a name.

She's our unicorn door.

Laurel: Oh God. Aww. Uni unicorn door. We should make a t-shirt outta that.

Daniel: I think a real quick, poly pyramid scheme.

Laurel: Oh, yeah,

Daniel: we have such a huge backlog of merch concepts and also a huge backlog of running jokes that we make that we can't keep track of. We could really use some like volunteer help of any stewards who want to get involved. Like maybe making a wiki for us, maybe doing a Reddit for us, like maybe doing anything that is

Laurel: for us,

Daniel: for us.

Laurel: Please just do something for me.

Daniel: Do, do you wanna be our unicorn door and just give, give, give and we'll take, take, take. No. , Like seriously, if you are, like, if a passionate stu and you want to be involved, romantically, sexually, professionally with poly amateur hour, please like, reach out if you're interested in helping us maintain our media empire.

Nichole: I think starting a Reddit actually is probably the of most help. because AI generation on Google is like completely, just scanning the Reddits.

Daniel: Oh my God. Have you heard about what Reddit's doing? Oh my God.

Nichole: Yeah. Just like, can't shut up about it. Um,

Daniel: Reddit said that poly amateur are a bunch of messy fucking hounds.

Laurel: I wish they were talking to about us, get them

Nichole: talking about

Laurel (2): us. I want them to talk shit on us or then we can backlash to the backlash.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: When was the last time that you googled poly Amateur hour?

Nichole: Why is somebody talking shit?

Daniel: No, not exactly, but the. The fucking AI summary comes up immediately. Right.

Nichole: Okay.

Daniel (2): I mean, now we have an AI summary that's kind of new, like AI now knows enough about us to have a bunch of fucking totally misguided opinions about what we're about the big one is that we're referred to

Daniel: as

Daniel (2): the polyamory podcast your therapists warned you about. But your

Laurel: therapist warned you about I would fucking listen to that podcast.

Nichole: I love the warning about thing. Yeah. Like. we are the couple your mother warned you about. Yeah. This is the podcast your therapist warned you about. Like, people actually care enough to warn people about other people. Yeah.

Daniel: We should be so lucky that somebody warns you about us

Laurel (2): Write a think piece about how uh, Nicole has coerced Daniel into this relationship. Yes. So that somebody else can shame him about where he leaves his socks.

Daniel: you fucking, condors team up and peck me to death. Oh

Nichole: man. That is gonna be such a big benefit of living together.

Daniel: Pecking me to death.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: No, someone else to clean up the socks.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: For you. Alright. Now,

Laurel: are you mad when people clean up your socks?

Nichole: He doesn't notice.

What if I announced it every time I did it? This is

Laurel: so true. Yeah.

Daniel: What if we, what if we rang a bell on the podcast every time somebody cleaned up one of my songs?

Nichole: What if I just rang a bell in the house? We have a bell. We have guest over. Ooh. Is, and people are like, what? What is that? What is that bell for?

Is that for like ringing for dinner or something? And it's like, Nope. Every time I clean up a sock, I get to ring the bell.

Daniel: So we do have another special, special segment?

Laurel: No. What is it? Oh,

Nichole: it's my favorite segment. Favorite segment of all time.

Laurel: Yay.

Daniel: It's because it's like the most earnest, it's like the heartfelt one. It's the one time of the year when when we get together and we're nice.

Nichole: So this segment is of course spit toasting

Daniel: now spit toasting is the segment where we say really nice things, or we invite other people to say really nice things about really nice people.

Laurel: Yeah,

Nichole: to the stewards,

Daniel: Uhhuh, if you want to do a spit toasting Yeah.

Yeah.

Nichole: Of your partner, of your friends, , whomever is in your life that is important to you, please email us at poly amateur hour@gmail.com. Yeah. I know we've said this before, but if there is any time to spread kindness, it is now, and it just makes me, I don't know.

I like, just do it for me.

Laurel: Yeah, just do it

Nichole: for, don't spit toast me, but do submit your spit toasts for your partners or friends or whomever.

Daniel: Y'all could spit toast me. It's fine.

Laurel: Or if you just wanna send in nice things about Daniel. Apparently

Daniel: the only time that I ever got a spit toasting it was the inaugural spit toasting.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: And I, and I asked for it. I was like, please. I was like, I just like laid down on the floor and I'm like, shower me.

Laurel: You'll get a surprise one.

Daniel: like, I want a consensual non-consent spit toasting. You guys, I wanna be like,

Nichole: you're asking for it again.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Shit. Do not by any means. Spit toast me. Final answer.

Laurel: Noted.

Nichole: And Stewarts, spit toasting is for you too. Just like, yes, bask in the glow of the positivity and love that people, will shower upon this person.

Laurel: It's an opportunity to practice compersion.

Nichole: Oh

Laurel: yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just for somebody maybe you don't necessarily know.

Daniel: we are all Liz.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I am Liz.

Laurel: I am Liz.

Nichole: I am Liz. I'm not as cool as Liz.

Laurel: Liz is. Liz is pretty cool. But you know, we're all Liz in our own way.

Daniel: Don't compare yourself to Liz.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Merge. Merge web life.

Laurel: Oh man.

Daniel: And honestly, these are our favorite type of spit toasting to do Are the surprise spit toasting. Yeah. Where we just ambush someone. With affirmation, buka

Yes.

I, I just wanna bring this incredibly earnest, heartfelt segment back to its incredibly foul roots. Yes. In its branding. It's very important that we don't lose touch.

Yeah. With the fact that this is, you're right. Spit toasting.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: And it's only barely consensual.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. Most of the people actually that we do spit, actually 100%. It's always a surprise except for Daniel. Like

Daniel: I was asking for it literally.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Um, have not expected it and have not enjoyed the experience.

Laurel: It's, what do they call, like type two fun. Yeah, it's good in retrospect.

Nichole: It's good in retrospect. Uncomfortable

Laurel: in the moment.

roll tape.

Hi. Hello.

Hi guys.

So We have a spit toasting for you.

Oh no.

Daniel: Are you ready? From all angles.

Laurel: Oh God. Okay. Just a second. Yes. Uh,

Daniel: what

Laurel: I need to introduce Liz for our audience. Liz is one of my oldest friends and one of my dearest friends, and an avid stu and supporter of the show. so I'm, I'm gonna go first, obviously.

it was back in the early aughts when Liz and I became friends. we were both in filmmaking, I was working at, and Liz was taking some classes at the Northwest Film Center. And I was much, much, much, much more shy at this point in my life.

And Liz is like a effusive extrovert was like, we're gonna be friends, goddammit. in no small part because, you are so, open. and so willing and so curious about people that is such a huge part of why I became involved in like the greater filmmaking community.

such a huge part of why I develop a strong, a strong group of friends. just had the opportunity to like grow my creativity. And you and I made films together. We did overnights. hi little ones. Whoa. We're we're saying nice things about your mom.

That's today's activity.

Yeah. Really. they're so cute. yeah. And then that we kind of like drifted apart just because we both moved to very different states for a hot minute, but like immediately reconnected when we were both back in Portland. And Liz is so fucking full of love and so generous.

Like, I don't know anybody that has such a rich community. Of people while still being like a parent of two. like you show up like crazy for your family, for your friends. Like it is

tiresome.

Daniel: Yeah. She, she's making the rest of us look bad.

Laurel: Yeah. This all look awful. It's, you're an incredible human being.

You are just a shining light of joy in my life. And I know in so many other people's lives, ' we're gonna have to, like, for the episode, like, edit down the amount of nice things that people have recorded for you because it's too much content.

Daniel: me and Nicole, we haven't gotten to know you that much yet then That's mainly Laurel's fault.

Laurel: It is.

Daniel: Um, and therefore, hi. Hi. Uh, and therefore our role here will be to heckle. The nice things. You're welcome. 'cause otherwise it's gonna be way overwhelming for you.

Nichole: I, I feel like my role is to doula you through this.

Laurel: Yes. Thank you.

Daniel: Not that different from a death doula.

Gentiana: I wanna celebrate my friend Liz, the first thing that comes to mind is her creativity. Everything from the cool projects that she gets involved in to the amazing art that she makes all the, all the creative stuff.

, Her love just makes me feel like a very special person, which I think is unique in friendships.

I find her. Way of being a mom to be really inspiring. she's got a lot of patience and stays grounded for her kids and really ke keeps them like. Engaged in the world and is always thinking about them.

And, I love to get to see that and be inspired by that. And also parent alongside her where my kid is pulled into that. means a whole lot to me.

Laurel: Hell yeah.

Daniel: By the end, by the end of this Liz, you're gonna be like, I am never going to be kind to anyone.

Laurel: Yeah. Here, hold this. I'm already sweating.

Angie: Liz is a magnetic force that enters your life because , she chooses to love you and love you.

She does. She's a breath of air, tired lungs, and a smile that makes you feel that life is worth the trouble if only to have a friend like her. She's a sister. I've always wanted.

The voice I hear when I need to remind myself I am loved unconditionally and that I am worthy of friendship and family. She's the intelligent, talented, fierce warrior goddess who fights for peace and equality and kindness and love without prejudice or judgment.

I love you, Liz. I've always loved you. . Thank you for being Liz, for being you and for not being anyone else.

Daniel: That one was trippy one. Yeah. It was kinda like a roomy poem. It felt, yeah.

Laurel: So poetic.

Daniel (2): I just want to remind the stewards out there. put yourself in the place of Liz. You are Liz. Liz is you. It's just like when you watch adult content, like,

Laurel (2): okay, I have one to read aloud lizzie, you wonderful human. You. It's been the best thing to watch you move and grow through so many different life stages, and yet you maintain one of the strongest senses of self and style and expression. I'm so thankful for how our friendship has evolved from us being in our twenties and worrying about how we were gonna fill up our time to us now in our forties and worrying about how to find time.

You're a wonderful friend, mama, partner and person, and I'm so happy to celebrate your next turn around the sun.

Daniel: Since that was like the voice of another person. Would you like us to disguise your voice in the crime? Yeah, put me in the crime voice.

Stephanie: Hi Liz, I can't think of anyone else that's easier to gush over, frankly. So I love that you're my work wife and we've been on so many fun adventures together, both personally and professionally, it all started at the film center and I have so many great memories of being in the equipment room with you and surviving some summer camps and the madness , and then we tried to start the Pendleton Film Festival and had an amazing time in Pendleton, and we've just done so many different things.

I remember when you asked me if you could be my assistant director for heart, and I was just so flattered and like over the moon that you would even like consider to help me on that project. And I love long relationships like ours because we can really like watch each other grow in our lives . And, I love our coffee dates and I love. , I just love you and I'm so happy that you're in my life and I'll see you soon.

Laurel: Liz, how are you doing?

Kids: Well, that's you. Your face is my pillow. Your face is my pillow.

Laurel: I'm a pillow.

Daniel: That, that's probably the nicest of the, uh, the compliments right there, right? Liz? I, I wanna second that. Liz. Your face

Laurel: red.

Daniel: Your face is the world's pillow, Liz.

Daisy: Hey, Liz, it's always a pleasure when we get the opportunity to spend quality time together. Conversing with you is effortless, and I always end up taking away a special thought or feeling that lasts well beyond the end of our talk. You have so many wonderful qualities. You are funny, kind, loving patient.

And incredibly perceptive. You have a certain clarity and wisdom that enriches everyone you share it with. Never change unless you want to.

Laurel: I love that one.

Yeah.

Okay. I got this hunker to read, and of course it's from sna, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna like save him the, the anxiety of even offering for him to read it himself.

Daniel: WeHo, would you like me to read it and No.

Laurel: Oh, yeah. You can read it. Yeah. Let Daniel read it.

Okay.

Daniel: Yeah. I am Liz's husband.

Kids: What

Laurel: a juicy.

Daniel: I want to share with everyone a trait that Liz embodies and that is thoughtfulness. She expresses this through the gifts she gives. She gets so much joy finding perfectly catered gifts for people.

It brings out the inner squirrel in her.

She has this whole ritual with wrapping gifts. It's an event that goes into her calendar that she very much looks forward to. She'll make her tea, put on her special pajamas, put on some music, and go to town wrapping gifts with the biggest smile on her face.

Every card has to be custom made with beautiful artwork that she does. All herself. Did I mention she's an amazing artist. . Her thoughtfulness is not just limited to gift giving holidays or birthdays. It's all throughout the year.

we would go shopping and I would see the most random things getting rung up. I get so surprised sometimes. Her response is always that it's for this person because they mentioned that one time that they like this and that.

Her thoughtfulness is just a fraction of how awesome she is. I'm pretty sure she's the coolest woman. I know. I love you. Bugs Herl, Dirk. That's for life.

Kids: That's my, that's

Daniel: and I would know. Because I am Liz's husband. Thank you very much. This dramatic reading.

Aw,

Kids: you're not husband,

You not

Daniel: We all, we all play make believe now. And then

Laurel: do you wanna add anything nice about mom?

Kids: No.

Laurel: No.

Kids: Maybe,

Laurel: maybe you don't have to. Maybe,

Kids: maybe, maybe, maybe is one of gonna add

Laurel: That's what you're gonna add.

Kids: actually what I'm gonna add is nothing.

Laurel: Is nothing. Yeah. Nothing.

Kids: Okay.

Laurel: We'll add your nothing.

Daniel: Moment of si. Moment of silence.

Laurel: Okay.

Okay, perfect.

Daniel: There we go.

Laurel: We added, we added your Nothing.

Nichole: That was the gift we gave to you, Liz.

Laurel: Moment of silence. Oh, it's so much.

Nichole: yeah.

Daniel and I haven't been able to spend a ton of time with Liz.

Daniel: I mean, it's mainly because she hates us.

Nichole: I'm, we're the only two people on earth that she hates. Yeah. the kindness. Like just radiates off of her. Yeah. I'm jealous of myself that I get to learn more about Liz and like get to know her better.

Laurel: Yeah. Liz is wonderful.

Daniel: Liz. Liz. Wonderful. Liz, let me tell you about all the wonderful things she is.

Laurel: Yeah. You get a mm-hmm.

Daniel: She's got a little pop and she's got a lot of fizz. Ooh. She's bee bopping out there with bird Dizz z Gillespie.