Nichole: Are you gonna fix your... Okay.

Daniel: Okay. Thank God. If by fix my collar you mean- Pop it on one side.

Nichole: Oh, God. Yeah. I was noticing it as he was bounding up the stairs toward me, and I was like- Bounding?

Yeah, you were bounding toward me up the stairs. Like a- Not at me,

Daniel: but- Like a frolicsome hound. Yeah, exactly.

Nichole: Yeah. I was gonna ask if I could fix it, but Daniel, you really hate when I, like, fix things on you.

Daniel: I just need a warning.

I think the other day you approached me and, like, uh, you were fixing something on me,

Nichole: Oh. You had a button that was unbu- it was the middle bu- all the other- Oh ... buttons were, it was just, like, just the middle button was undone. M- my

Daniel: solar plexus gets so hot I need a little ventilation system

Laurel: It's like a little louver crank that just, like, spreads your- Louver crank?

is that not a word?

Daniel: It might be.

Nichole: this could be my shortcoming, that I don't know that word.

Daniel: Louver? If you say it with a French accent, Nicole will understand.

I think with the grooming thing, I have a hard time with it is, I'm not sure whether this is a Jewish thing, but Jewish kids get schmutz rubbed off of their face a lot. by our mothers, our aunts, especially the spit on the thumb- Ugh

rub on the face thing. Yeah, but that's

Laurel: just rude. Like that's spitting on somebody.

Nichole: That's also universal. That is absolutely something that most kids experience. Yeah.

Daniel: Well, maybe we're all Jews after all.

Nichole: I really don't like that you're calling it grooming.

Daniel: Just for clarity, I mean this in the, bonobo chimp sense and not the Epstein sense, despite me making it into a Jewish thing.

Laurel: Does this, does this count when I also, try to zip up your fly for you?

Daniel: Yeah. I step away. I'm like, "I can zip up my own fly."

Nichole: Your shoelace was also untied.

I'm concerned that you're gonna trip and fall.

Daniel: Well, apparently if I'm bounding up the steps, this is likely.

Nichole: I'm just gonna let you trip. I'm gonna let your dick hang out. I'm not even gonna attempt to s- ... save you from embarrassment anymore because it's not welcome, because I'm grooming you.

Daniel: Well, you can get me an I told you so after I end up on the ground at the bottom of the stairs with schmutz on my face and my dick hanging out.

Laurel: Yeah. Which is

Daniel: like at the end of every party. Welcome to Polyamature Hour. I'm Nicole.

Laurel: I'm Laurel.

Daniel: I'm Daniel.

Laurel: And this is actually open puck night.

Daniel: Should we explain what this means? Sure. in a moment, we will be joined via time travel by our special guest, Alex Alberto, to discuss the long and oft-

discussed long novel, Pucking Around.

Nichole: If we had a Wikipedia to tell us whether or not we had a segment for, like, club, that would be-

Laurel: Oh, yeah

ideal. Yeah.

Daniel: we need a fan wiki, like our own wiki, like- Yeah,

Laurel: that's what I mean. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah,

Laurel: yeah. There's a website for that and everything.

Daniel: you never know. Like, it took us a couple weeks to discover that there was a subreddit for us. Mm-hmm. So real quick, poly pyramid scheme We have a Reddit now. A subreddit. We don't have the whole Reddit, just a subreddit.

Laurel: Yeah. Didn't we talk about this? We did.

Daniel: Yeah, but we wanna remind people. Oh. Get on there.

Laurel: Get on there and do a j- little chit-chat, and then it's a whole other way you could send us questions, 'cause we need- Ooh ... questions. Which you could also email to us at polyamoryhour@gmail.com, or submit anonymously on our website, polyamoryhour.com.

Daniel: We get all sorts of, like, communiques from our Stu-berts. Very few questions. It's almost like they don't trust our advice. Prove that you

Nichole: trust us. Also, we didn't create this subreddit, so, like, have at it, Talk shit about

Laurel: us. I think this is what we said last time. Oh. Go talk shit about us.

Daniel: This is why we need the wiki page too- ... so that we can remember what we said. We need this wiki page in order to guide us into our, Our dotage. What? As we, as we, as

Nichole: we cognitively decline we need- I am the dumbest person on this podcast.

I don't know what a louver is, and I don't know what dotage is.

Daniel: Oh, it's like when you become, super old and they need to dote on you. It's called your dotage.

Laurel: Like you need hospice care?

Daniel: Yeah. Or just your fam- like family taking care of you and everything,

Laurel: Okay.

Daniel: So I guess you could have like a mini dotage before you become, like, permanent dotage.

I'm gonna be all dotage

Nichole: next

Daniel: week.

Nichole: That's

Daniel: right.

Laurel: All dotage all the time. In like two days. Yes, Stu-berts, by the time you hear this Nicole will already be recovering from surgery

Daniel: Getting them endos and the metrioses taken out. Mm-hmm. This is like some intense lady part surgery.

Nichole: it's not gonna be fun. I'm not excited about it. I'm really anxious about it. sidebar, We went to a comedy night Baddest Bitches Only, hosted by Mx. Dahlia Bell, friend of the podcast.

one of the comedians, her entire set was about her endosurgery recovery. Hmm. And I was like, "Thank God Daniel is listening to this" So he knows how bad it's gonna be.

Daniel: Oh, no thank God Laurel's listening to it. Just Daniel.

Nichole: Well, you are obligated to take care of me.

Daniel: I'm competent. I can't even tie my own shoes.

Laurel: I zip up my own fly. My collar's never fucked up. so Stu-bertz, you should also send some well wishes to Nicole and some care packages. Uh, if you DM me, I'll give you my address. You know what I want?

Nichole: I want questions. Nicole wants questions. That's what I want.

Daniel: She's gonna have a really rough recovery unless you provide the questions.

Nichole: Give me something to do. Yeah. Hmm. Please. '

Daniel: Cause as it is, all of the to-do stuff is being, uh, divided amongst us because in the most Nicole move ever- ... there is a spreadsheet with complete, titles. 'Cause y- you're going to stay at an Airbnb for a few nights to away from the dogs, and your mother's gonna take care of you, and you have your mother listed on this care sheet as, what is it, general manager?

What is she?

Nichole: Operations lead. Operations lead. And you're comfort and mobility lead. Aw.

Daniel: I'm like a human walker. Mm-hmm. It's like, uh, you've heard of human furniture.

Laurel: Human medical aid.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. That kinda makes me sound like a sex toy.

Nichole: Ooh, yeah, I like it. With human walker, I was gonna make a joke about how short you are, but that sounded mean. It

Daniel: I thought we could warm up with one of those, like, non-question communiques that I was talking about- Mm-hmm ... that we get from our Stuberts.

Laurel: I mean, I guess there's a little question, like, associated with it,

Daniel: there's like a, "And you?"

Laurel: Uh-huh. "

Daniel: Now let's try and describe the communique in as vague of terms as possible without playing it.

And we'll see, Stuberts, you write in and see if you can guess.

Nichole: This is a Crazy Sexy Poly.

Crazy Sexy Poly is where we tell stories That are crazy ... that are crazy and sexy and

Laurel: poly But they end up not usually actually being sexy- Yeah ... or crazy. They are poly. They are poly.

Hey polyamateurs. It's Polyam Sam on Blue Sky, your bass player whenever you need it. I had a fun experience last week, and I'd like your thoughts on it. I had a performance and in the audience I got to have everyone from every aspect of my life right now, a big chunk of the group of, the ENM people I hang out with a lot of them poly, and some really close friends who are aware of my relationship style, and then family members who are not aware of my relationship style , And I got to have that awesome experience where everyone kind of intermixed and intermingled and, you know, it just felt really good. And I was wondering if that was something you guys have experienced. If there's been those situations where you've gotten to have that mixture of the muggles and, and the cool people.

Nichole: Aw, I love that for you, Sam. Yeah. Not in a sarcastic way. I actually do really love that for you.

Daniel: Hey, I love it for us too.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I feel like I've definitely had, a Seder with my mother and partners and friends, and people that I've known for many years. the only social engagements that we have are Seders apparently.

Laurel: Apparently. Seders and weddings, that's it.

Daniel: And Star Trek nights. And

Laurel: Star Trek nights.

when my family lived in town here, I feel like it was much more, like,, frequent or happenstance I would just be hanging out with partners or whatever- Mm-hmm ... at the house, and then my mom would drop by,

part of why I like being out, is that it is very easy to mix company, and I never stress about it, and it is really nice I think part of what feels so good about it is, you get to be your authentic self. When you see people from different parts of your life come together, it's kind of like seeing the different facets of your personality- come together, and that can be really gratifying.

Nichole: it's, nice to bring the different facets of your life together, and I think that it's made even sweeter when you're, like, romantically involved with some of those people.

And when you're in- romantically involved with multiple of those people, that way you can express love, three, four, five-fold.

Daniel: mean, you've recently, like, You, you, you came out to your mom.

And then your mom came out for you- ... to your dad. To everybody

Nichole: else. Yeah.

Daniel: And your aunt, and like- And my uncle- Yeah ... and my other aunt- ... and my cousins. Yeah, like she came out, transatlantically.

in Europe Everybody in Italy knows about you. so you've had, an increasing number of people who know things.

Nichole: but it's not like we're, like, all in the same room together.

Not yet. I think it's sweet that, my aunt said that she liked my relationship community, and I thought that was really-

Laurel: Aw, yeah ...

Nichole: that was cute.

Daniel: That's like somebody trying to get to the word molecule without knowing the word molecule. It

Nichole: sounds like a direct translation, and I really like it.

Yeah.

Daniel: Mm. Relationship community. Yeah,

Laurel: it's nice.

Daniel: Welcome to Relationship Community Hour.

Nichole: Aw. It doesn't have the same ring to it.

Daniel: No.

Nichole: Also, I was, like, trying to, mash it together like Polyamature Hour. Yeah. And I was like, "Relcom." That sounds like a communications company. Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: an evil sci-fi communications company. Yes. Ooh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's our next show. With GloboChem. Whoo.

Laurel: should we puck around?

Daniel: I'm ready. I've Got My stick in my hand.

Laurel: Ugh. Yeah. I'm ready to puck around and find out. Oh, ooh. We all got together and very separately read Pucking Around, the Why Choose TikTok famous romance hockey novel, and then, uh, we had Alex Alberto on the show so we could all it apart together.

Nichole: Alex is an acclaimed author and filmmaker.

you should read their book, Entwined. We loved Entwined. Yes. Um, you can buy it directly from Alex at alexalberto.com. and then check out their short film- Coming Out Polyamorous for Thanksgiving.

Daniel: And now you say that we read it all separately, but I did happen to read quite a bit of it on double speed in the presence of my partners.

Laurel: This is true. Yes.

Daniel: So I'm just walking around listening to hyper-speed hockey smut.

Laurel: Which is surprisingly confusing.

Daniel: it taught me, though, that I am capable of just plugging into rapid streams of information. Maybe finally I can get my cybernetic implant.

Laurel: Can your cybernetic implant roll tape for us?

Daniel: Uh, yeah. Here, just a second.

Alex: Okay, the microphone is this one. You're in my ears. Yeah. I am good.

Laurel: Yay. It sounds great.

Daniel: I mean, your voice is always, mellifluous

Alex: Mellifluous,

that's a word I don't know.

Daniel: it is one of those words that, means, like, pleasant to the ears and kind of lyrical- Ah ... It's the French Canadian. The melody is the French Canadian

Alex: melody. Yeah.

Daniel: Do you feel like French Canadians have a reputation, like a voice reputation?

Alex: yes, but I think most people don't know it. I just mean, like, the French Canadian accent is so different from a France French accent- Yes

that, like, people hear it and are, are like, "What is this?" But I can recognize a French Canadian speaking English anywhere. I could analyze accents and language all day.

Laurel: Ooh.

Daniel: Well, that's good because we decided we were actually gonna cancel the- Yes.

fucking around discussion.

Laurel: And just talk about

Alex: accents?

So Are you saying that we read this whatever, like 800-page- ... It, it was a

Daniel: test.

Alex: Novel

Laurel: for nothing.

Daniel: It was like an emotional test to s- like, see how dedicated you were to us, you know?

Nichole: Wow. Wow. Yeah. Did you finish it, Daniel?

Daniel: Yes. I finished it today. Wow. You

Nichole: finished- Yeah. He finished it today. Yeah.

Alex: I also finished it today- ... and I finished it at 1.5 speed- Yes! Yes ... on the audiobook. Ah.

Yep. Oh yeah? Point ... Oh yeah? 2.0. Whoa. Mysterious.

Nichole: All right.

Anyways, we did read a book.

Daniel: Or the book read us.

Alex: I kind Of went into a deep dive after finishing the book because I was like, " Why is this like maybe technically polyamorous, but it doesn't feel polyamorous to me?"

Uh-huh. Yeah. And I sort of looked up, what is a why choose romance? , What are the tropes? What do people care about in those things?

And I think it probably hit all those things,

Daniel (2): I'm super

curious About this because I feel like that's the level of bare minimum research that I did not do-

is like what is a why choose- Yeah ... romance? we, we have these theories that maybe it has, like its evolution is connected to like the harem fiction, in manga that we've seen, like harem anime. But tell us, you,

Alex: you Googled. I mean, I googled and I read a whole Book Riot article-

so I feel like I'm a bit of an expert now. Yeah, you're an expert. Yeah,

Laurel: absolutely. Yeah. You know? By our standards- Yeah ... this is true. Resident expert Alex Alberto, educate us on the why choose novel.

Alex: Okay, so according to Book Riot- Um, you were, in the s- in the right area, Danielle, when you were thinking of anime and, what was called reverse harem.

Laurel: Mm. Mm-hmm. So- Mm-hmm ...

Alex: a woman with, multiple male partners. I think reverse harem was typically quite straight, though I think it seems to say sometimes it would get, you know, like, it would mix multiple genders and stuff. And then I guess the why choose is sort of replacing reverse harem as something that is maybe a bit broader.

what's at the heart of a white shoes is very much, like, there's a woman at the center who is so desired- Mm

by the men around her that they kind of want to, like, build their entire lives around her. And I think, again, I don't read a lot of romance, but I think this sort of like, " Oh my God, I just saw you, and now you're my entire life, and you're my soulmate, and I cannot breathe air that is not shared with you," is kind of the vibe- Yes Yes

that people want. Yes. Right? Mm-hmm. Nicole died a little inside. I'm sorry.

Nichole (2): I just, the idea is just- Yeah. Like- Yeah ... so creepy to me. Yeah.

I just wanna very quickly go over what is a shadow of a whisper of a plot, here. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So, Rachel Price is a sports medicine doctor, and she gets assigned to the Jacksonville Rays hockey team. She knows nothing about hockey.

By the end of this, she knows everything about hockey. she basically, months ago, had a one-night stand in Seattle at her brother's wedding. Turns out one-night stand is on the hockey team, and his best friend, is also there and picks her up from the airport, and she's kind of attracted to him.

She's attracted to her one-night stand, and then there's this other guy that she's also attracted to. and they end up having a lot of sex. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: All moving in together to pro sports player's house.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Everyone moves in together like it's a natural step. An

Alex: incredibly quick step, too. Yes.

Like- Oh,

Nichole: yes. My God. and then just to spoil the ending, they, basically get married. Rachel gets married to Mars, the Finnish, goalie.

Daniel: The Big Finnish.

Nichole: That's good. and then Jake and Kay, Jake is Rachel's, one-night stand from Seattle. Caleb is his best friend. They're actually in love with each other, so they get married.

and then surprise, she got her IUD removed. Oh my God. Oh my God. We don't have to talk about that now, but-

Daniel: All right. All right. the first thing that we have to know about our heroine is that she is also the child of a- Right

internationally famous rock star. and so extremely rich, extremely privileged, and her fear, throughout this is that the press is going to know, and everybody's lives will be ruined.

Nichole: Yeah. If they find out about her polyamory.

Daniel: all of these people are like so idealized. They're like superhero characters. Yes. Like- Mm-hmm ... What, what are their names?

Nichole: Rachel.

Daniel: Rachel our main character. Mm-hmm. Yes. And then- The woman

Alex: at the center of it all.

Daniel: Yes. She's- Like, that's- Yes ...

Nichole: what it is about- Yeah ... in this genre.

Yes. She is, a septum-pierced, tattooed doctor who at one point describes herself as like, "I eat Thai food, and I have piercings, and this is just who I am."

Laurel: Is her story told through ink and metal?

Nichole: Oh, God.

Laurel (2): We had a Unicorn Hunter Hunters profile- ... and the wife

was like, " and he had, like, one tattoo.

Yeah. It was so rude.

Nichole: they get very deep into, like, what her career is, and romance novel writers do that. They find a niche career- Uh-huh ... for their usually female protagonist- Mm ... and they do deep dives into, like, what that career is so that- Mm

their female con- protagonist can show up as a professional, and a fully formed human being.

Daniel (2): Oh my God, When Rachel first meets the coach of the Rays- Mm-hmm ... he just offhandedly recites her CV.

it goes on for, like, a half a page where he's just listing all of the things that she has done and her qualifications.

Alex: a common thread is kind of like she both has so much self-confidence and, and also none at the same time. Yes. Yeah. And, like, the man's job is to really kind of like... Which is another thing I read is common.

It's like the, the heroine is wounded, and, like, the men are there to really kind of care for her and rebuild her. And to your point about the superheroes, I did read about, like, archetypes. Mm. Yes. And apparently romance readers will, like, expect archetypes.

Daniel: Okay, so we've got our, like, archetypes, right? this is the array of characters that you have in a traditional romance.

Also, like with the superhero thing, it feels a little bit like Avengers, like, where you're just collecting the members, and each one has, like, a unique superpower. Yes. and then finally, you got overlaid all over all of this the actual, like, situation in the novel, which is that they are all on a sports team, and so they all have their, like, roles within this, this organization, and as the relationships develop, they start speaking about their polycule, they start using the language of, like, teams and team building. Oh my

God.

I mean, that's what we do in our polycule, you know, when, whenever Laurel brings somebody new over to Star Trek night. We're just like, "Well?"

Are you a part of the team? Are you part of the team? Are you in or are you out? Are you ready to get beat into the polycule? That's how it

Alex: goes.

Nichole: the speed at which these things happen

Laurel: Yeah. The speed

Nichole: at which they move in together, the speed at which they, declare their love for one another, is, like, insane to me.

Alex: we're not seeing a lot of the actual connection or what makes intimacy be built to want to do those big moves together.

Ilmari's a completely external person. And there's sort of no extra beat between him expressing, "I don't know if I can share you," or, "I don't know what it would be like to see you have sex, with other men."

And then cut to she brings him home, like, that night or the day after to, the other two guys and, like, I don't know, they start having sex in the kitchen or something, and they're like-

Laurel: Yes, yeah ... "Oh,

Alex: he's gonna, this is gonna be exposure therapy." Like, he's gonna get used to it Oh, here's fear, here's jealousy," and then cut to sex and now everything is good.

Yeah.

Daniel: Yes. Yes. I think the idea is that the sex is supposed to be so good that it, that it absolutely obliterates all other concerns. Bad

Laurel: feeling.

Daniel: And the only thing that all the sex has in common is Rachel

Alex: Y-

Nichole: yes

Alex: Yes I think we might get- And no protection.

There is no safer sex- I know ... in this universe I know. And that's another reason why I'm like, oh, like most polyamorous people I know, they're actually quite, organized Yeah ... about safer sex. Yes. I kept trying to remind myself like this, like even though it's supposed to take place in like the real world, that it is fantasy.

Laurel: Like it is meant to be fantasy. Cause obviously like I was looking at it and reading it from like a poly critical lens and like I kind of automatically do the same thing when I'm like reading, like my fae romance or whatever, and it's like this isn't- Mm-hmm

healthy. This isn't good. but there's that like extra level of like suspension of disbelief because like, they're mythical creatures- Mm-hmm ... instead and have like mythical birth control or whatever. Wow. I want some of that. But yeah. Like I think it's a fun read, and if you're like, "Yeah, I'm just fantasizing about being like a perfect, completely, utterly desirable- Yeah ... professional badass- Mm-hmm ...

Alex: I agree, and I think the key word is fantasy. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's confusing because it's not like, you know, in this other thing you watched that had a curse or whatever- Yeah. Yes ... like, elements that remind us that we're not living in the real world.

Like, even when it comes to, Rachel being a doctor on a sports team and then having, you know, a relationship with the equipment manager and then two players that she's treating, like, that's ethically, you know- Yes. ... just not great. Dubious. But it's almost like in this fantasy world, the ethics, it's almost, like, different parameters. And I agree- Yeah ... with you that, like, depending on what you're looking for, it could be a really fun read because the things that were relatable, like, oh, jealousy or, questioning, or how is it gonna work, if we're out publicly, how can we do this legally.

They sort of talk about, like, well, we can't legally all marry each other. Mm-hmm. Who can take whose name legally. Like, those are all real things. And they do talk about family a lot, which I appreciated- Yeah. Mm-hmm ... So I think there's, like, so much good in there, and I think that by design, these little elements are just kind of touched on.

Laurel: Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. There's

Alex: like, like, people wanna stay in the fantasy, so they don't wanna see the, like, difficulty of, the journey everything is centered around, yeah, like the fantasy of the sex, and the group sex, and, you know, whose penis is touching whose inside of her vagina, and-

Nichole: you know? Yeah. But also, what this book achieves is the ultimate fantasy of the reader being able to put themselves in Rachel's position, right? Yeah. Because you don't learn, that Rachel's hair is dark until, like, halfway through the book. The author never describes her body.

Wh- which I think- And- ... is

Daniel: another element of the harem m- Yeah. Yeah ... is that

Nichole: you're really supposed to, like- Identify with the person in the- They're like, yeah, they're like a blank- In the center ... a blank

Daniel: slate. Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: Because everybody else gets very detailed descriptions about what their bodies look like.

She does not, and the point is so we can imagine ourselves, you know- Mm-hmm ... and map ourselves onto that character.

Daniel: I think that this is polysploitation the degree to which everything coalesces in this, like, symphonic, orgiastic, ending to end all possible endings.

And I'm not even talking about... Okay. The, the final, final ending is, like, they all, like, seem to impregnate Rachel at the same time- ... I think is the idea. And I'm just, I'm just guessing that because she has, like, twins in her family, like, she's gonna have, like, triplets, and each one of them is going to be- Oh,

Nichole: God.

Daniel: Oh. Okay. But, but- ... even before then, the tension in the book, is of, them being revealed to the world. Mm-hmm. And how it's gonna ruin all their lives, And instead, what happens is I can only describe it as the entire world- ... coming into her polycule. It's like all the team members, like, write letters to prevent her from being fired.

People like the, the guy who, like, who, like, mopped the floor or whatever. Like, the- Like, her rock star dad comes and does a live, performance of the national anthem- ... at this game. And they're all wearing, like, the entire crowd, they're all wearing jerseys that have both, like, her hockey star partner's numbers on them, and then her name, and then they all take her name, and they're all prices.

And then, like, it, it feels to me, this is where it starts to feel, like, supernatural- Yeah ... in a certain way. Yeah. This is, this is

Laurel: where they remind you at the very end that this is fantasy. Yes.

Alex: wasn't there something where people had signs and were chanting, "Price is love," or, "Love is Price"? Yeah. Yes. Like they

Daniel: wouldn't-

Alex: Yeah. And I did have this thought of like, how many rom-coms have I watched with like grand gestures at the end- Mm-hmm

and still over the top endings that we are less feeling like it's fantasy just because we've seen so mu- so many rom-coms. Yeah. We've seen it everywhere on TV. Mm-hmm. So it's like, okay, give, this queer-ish, polyamorish, you know- ... like polycule, like their ridiculous happy ending and like I wish there was more of that in the world.

Like, yeah, I kinda wish life was like that. Yeah.

Daniel: did anybody jerk off to this?

Alex: Well, I actually was curious about... Not about that.

I wanted to poll you three to ask you was there too much sex in this book, or was the amount of sex okay for you if there had been more of, like, these other missing pieces?

Laurel: I think if there had been, more of the other pieces, I would've been fine with the amount of sex. 'Cause I feel like one of my complaints about, like, my fairy n- novels is there's not enough sex in them.

Mm-hmm. Um, but they do a much better job of, like, creating, like, whole characters- Yeah, 'cause- ...

Nichole: um, that

Laurel: have, like,

Nichole: complex reactions to things. It feels like the sex scenes would've been more satisfying if we had- Yeah, more ... more of a deeper connection to the characters. Mm-hmm. and, like, actual explanations of decisions that were made to get to this place.

Because to your point, Alex, it feels like sex is used to solve problems. Yes. Yeah. Like, any kind of conflict, it's like, "Well, we'll just have sex about it." And the magical cocks fix it. Let's have sex about it.

Alex: But sex scenes could also have been done in a way where it's also kind of, like, moving character development- Mm-hmm

or plot, and I didn't feel that- Mm-mm. Yeah. Mm-mm ... in here. And I think that's why for me, I just felt like, "Ugh, sex again?" Like- And then,

Daniel: What, what personally, like, interfered with, I think, any kind of, like, erotic response that I could have to this book- Mm-hmm ... was the way that, genitals were personified. Um, and this is like, 80% of my notes are just, like, about things that she said about pussies or cocks.

Laurel: Uh-huh.

Daniel: She said the way that Jake smelled was Okay. Like, the book was so into that as a description, she says it again, like, out loud to Jake, she says, uh, " your pussy's about to die and go to pussy heaven." Come on. She says, "My pussy burst into flames." That's not good. Mm-hmm. You should probably get that checked out. We're twisty and salty like a sexy mean pretzel."

Her pussy screams. Her pussy does a little dance.

Laurel: All

Alex: so I went through Goodreads and StoryGraph and Reddit- Okay ... because first of all, I was like, are there polyamorous people who have shared their opinions about this book?

Are polyamorous people reading this book, right?

Laurel: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Alex: found like literally like two. And, it doesn't overlap. But a lot of people who are not polyamorous do really love it. Yeah. Yes. Like tons of people- Yes

love, love this book. Yes. And I read a lot of comments that were like, "I had never been able to imagine what it might be like," like, they would say that was so nice, and as someone out of an abusive relationship, like the idea that like a woman could, like have multiple partners and not be controlled or owned in this way or blah, blah, blah.

so I'm like worried about criticizing it too much because I think what we're doing is basically looking at it from the lens of like is this polyamory?

Is this something that like I would recommend to polyamorous people to read? And I think my answer is like not really. but it's kind of like if I went to the theater to watch a horror film and I was like, "Oof, this was way too tense." Yeah. Like, I wish- Yeah. ... I wish this movie had fewer jump scares. I don't like feeling tense, and I would've rather, like, laugh and feel, you know, like, butterflies of love in my stomach.

Laurel: Okay, one, I have to go over my, the thing I'm most angry about in this book. Mm-hmm. Where she is supposed to be this, like, tattooed rocker chick with a septum piercing, and at some point, I think it is in the middle of her sex with Jake, she goes, " Thank God I'm straight."

And I was just like- I, um- "Fuck you." Oh yeah, and she's super into astrology. Like

Alex: So into astrology. But the words I believe, were "deliciously straight." Like, the words- ... "I am deliciously straight" were used in the novella. Yes. Yes.

Daniel: I-

Laurel: That's my biggest qualm. I think it does, like, a pretty decent job of, sort of, like, skimming the surface of non-monogamy and polyamory in terms of, like, this is why people would want to engage in it- Yeah

and why it's not a bad thing.

Daniel: like, it's not just a piece of polysploitation, but it's also a little bit of polyganda, right?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. In that you're gonna have these deliciously straight housewives or, or whatever who are l- you know, de- uh, deliciously monogamous, and they're going to read this and, like, it might open some minds out there because the, the point of entry, so to speak,

Nichole: Oh, God. Um- Ah.

Daniel: It gets widened.

Yes. Literally. Yeah. I figured. Yeah. It might, this might stretch some minds.

Laurel: Yeah, just like Omari's

Nichole: huge cock. Speaking of normies reading this book and having opinions- Mm-hmm ... we originally, pitched this as, okay, Alex is gonna come on the show, we're gonna talk about Pucking Around. Then we started inviting others into this relationship. I don't know, is there like a poly equivalent of, like, a sassy gay friend?

Daniel: Like, Pike Night? Like-

Laurel: Oh. They're degenerate besties?

Daniel (2): Degenerate besties. And we were s- starting to talk about how we were gonna make this like an episode of the podcast Open Pike Night, where they invite people to give audio clips of opinions about the Star Trek episodes that they are covering.

And then we're like, oh my God, we should invite the guys from Open Pike Night to send in their audio clips, and we're going to call it Open Night. That's the whole reason, really, you wanted to do this, right? Yeah. So you could use Open Puck Night. Yep.

I just wanted to, like, explore this, like, nexus with you, Alex, this is the definition of our show right here, okay? we've got an acclaimed literary author on to talk about a book of hockey smut Where we are inviting Star Trek podcasters To offer their opinions upon it.

Something weird is happening here. Like, we're gonna create a new, like, genome or something.

Laurel: Uh-huh.

Daniel: Yeah. Are you telling me that these

Alex: podcasters have read the entirety of this book? Ah.

Daniel: Yes. That's how much they love us. Well, one of them hasn't finished it, but...

Laurel: I think it's not pucking around unless everybody finishes. God. Anyways, yeah. Are you gonna play 'em?

Daniel: I'm gonna play 'em.

Cameron: Hello polyams, it's Cameron from Open Pike Night calling in for Open Puck Night because I'm not refusing that invitation. I literally just minutes ago finished reading this book- Oh, shit

which you warned me was very long and extra spicy, and you were not kidding. It is Lord of the Hot Wings. But I was eager to dive in to find out what it's all about. I started off enjoying it. I like the way the, the chapters jumped around perspectives. The banter was all very charming. Charming is a good way to describe a lot of this book.

Three Star Trek references, if you count Jean-Luc Gerard. And then there's a point where Rachel's learning about the team and how they haven't quite gelled yet, and it struck me, this is gonna be a sports underdog story. I hate real-life sports, but- ... I am here for an underdog story. I am down for Ted Lasso with a septum ring instead of a mustache-

and boinking instead of motivational speeches. Oh

Laurel: my

Cameron: God. This was not that story. They lose one game in the entire book. Yeah. Hockey is incidental. Oh. This is a lot of sex and more emotional baggage than- ... is held by the bridge of the Enterprise. And I know Rachel tells us these three men are very different, but under the sheets in bed, they are all identical.

The only way you can tell them apart is the nickname they call her. Yet despite all of this, at the end, I teared up during the whole, like, hockey match- Aw ... and the Price jerseys and bringing the family together. It got to me, so I guess it worked. I just wanted a little more Bad News Bears their perfectly peaked nipples.

Poor Rudy. Fucks? Anyway, thanks for popping my hockey smut cherry. Cameron out.

Nichole: Oh my God. That was good. Oh my God, Cam.

Laurel: are any of them allowed to date outside of this polycule?

Daniel: Like-

Alex: that's also another element that made me think this is not quite polyamory.

Yes. Yes. It's like while she doesn't say that they can't, like they sort of express, like, "You're all I need."

Yes,

Laurel: yeah.

Alex: Except for, you know, Caleb and Jake, who have their own relationship. However, in this context, it felt a little bit like, male bisexuality performed for a straight woman.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like the- Yeah ... it's

Daniel: like I kissed a girl and I liked it, but for the female gaze. Like, I kissed a boy and I liked it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. Which is sort of like- That

Alex: line is straight up in the book. Yes, it is. Ah. Yeah, I kissed a boy and I liked it, yeah.

Laurel: Oh my God. Yeah. That's what I feel like, like this whole thing is sort of like very much, like, written from the outside for the outside,

Daniel: Not to say that the people on Open Pike Night are outsiders, you know, 'cause they are honorary polyamorists.

But perhaps we should, uh, listen to- Yeah. Yes ... our next clip

John: It's producer John with Open Puck Night. I actually managed to take this entire beast, I finished this girthy book, so, so well. Finished all over me. I think my main curiosity is if all of the characters were swapped, if it was one man, three women, every- everybody just swapped, how different this book would be.

I mean, obviously it would be deep, deep male fantasy, something we've all grown up seeing and reading, but it would be quite a different book. And then there's really just one point that Cam and I discussed the other night, so here's a clip of that. And the word fist- They- ... gets used so much Yes. She constantly says- She says the, um- I'm pretty sure someone fisted a hot dog at one point

grabbing, clutching, clenching, anything. That's why, I mean, you use these other terms every once in a while. A book that contains, and I will spoil this, no fisting. Yes. The word fisting- Yes ... is used at least 100 times. No fisting whatsoever. 100%. Like, they talk- Oh, no ... about fisting- ... but they don't actually do it.

Yep. But they, "Oh, she's fisting Steve." No, but hair gets fisted- Shirts get fisted ... yes ... hats get fisted. Everything gets fisted. Oh, my God. Thank you. I thought I was going insane, like sitting there listening to him, like, "Lady, there are other words." Other words. I

Cameron: understand wanting to use fist. Yeah. That's, I get it, but maybe once a page.

Jesse: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Okay. The audience just missed both Alex and I making the exact same, like, pointing- ... down gesture of like, "Yes." Oh my God, yes. I even have a note for that, that's like uses the term fisting too often in ways that aren't fisting."

Alex: and the part- The very first time it's used, it's to fist a shirt, and at first I was like- What? ... "What do you mean, fisting a shirt?"

Laurel: And you're on Urban Dictionary like, "What are the kids saying these days?"

Hoo. Okay. Do we have one more?

Daniel: One more.

Laurel: One more.

Jesse: Hello, Daniel, Nicole, and Laurel, and to all the Stewberts who might be listening to this. It's Jesse, the third Open Pike bunny. Can I say Pike bunny? Is that- Does that make sense for this- Oh my God ... conversation? It's like puck bunny, but it's pi- Anyway, it's Jesse from Open Pike Night. Just wanted to say thank you so much, first of all, for inviting us to partake in Open Puck Night.

And I have to admit straight up front that I am not a, learned consumer of hockey smut, but I appreciate- ... the opportunity, and I love the hockey smut song, by the way. But you know, I, I have to admit, I'm about three and a half, maybe four hours into the audiobook, Pucking Around, and I don't know what the, the cool funny joke term would be for this, but I am hooked.

Mm. I, I'm probably gonna listen to this whole freaking book, you guys. Like, th- this is, uh, this is much better than I expected it to be. I'm kind of rooting for Rachel here. Like, she deserves it all, she, she's working really hard. She's making a name for herself. Why shouldn't she have it all? I'm really enjoying it.

Thank you again for inviting us to be part of Open Puck Night, and, uh, maybe I'll send you a final book report once I finish the entire thing. Live long and puck spur. Whoa.

Nichole: He has 20 hours left. I was gonna say, this is- ... 24-hour

Daniel: audiobook. Looking at him before, like, at this point, like, four hours in, and then when he finishes it, it's gonna be like- Oh my God It's gonna be, it's gonna be like pre-pres- presidency Obama and post-presidency Obama.

Daniel: I love Alex

Nichole: Alberto. Alberto or Alber- Alberto?

Daniel: You know, I said Alberto for a really long time- Uh-huh ... and then I realized that they are not Latinx. I was pronouncing it like it was a Spanish name, and I do not believe it is.

It's, it's like, uh... I think it's, is it of Alberta, Canada?

Laurel: No, they're from Quebec.

Daniel: Well, then why aren't they named Alex Quebeco?

Nichole: Ask them.

That was really lovely. Thank you, Alex- Thank you ... for joining us. And thank you for reading that book.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Thank you, Open Pike Night, for reading that book.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. Thank you, Open Pike Night, for giving us so much really present and steady love while we're just completely chaotic and- I feel like the love you get is real real, you know, but, like, it's when we remember that the internet exists.

Nichole (2): You know, I'm thinking about this, They have continually, like, opened up to, like, collaborations with us, invited us on their podcast, and w- we asked them to read 600 pages of Our Spines.

Daniel: And then, and then leave a 90-second voice memo. I know.

Laurel: Wow, we're assholes.

Nichole: We're assholes. But thank you. Thank you

Laurel: so much.

Daniel: But I hereby extend an invitation Open Pike Night, you're coming on, and you're gonna play a little Star Trek Booty Roster with us.

Laurel: Oh,

Nichole: that'll be fun.

Oh, that'll

Laurel: be more fun. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Oh, I have a

Laurel: non-sequitur.

Oh. Yeah.

Daniel: Did you hear... Well, I know you heard this, Nicole, 'cause you told me about it.

Laurel: You're gonna, you're gonna recycle Nicole's news-

Daniel: Yes ...

Laurel: to me?

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: This is polyamory.

Daniel: Did you hear that the Portland City Council has banned foie gras

Laurel: with- Oh, yeah ...

Daniel: within city limits?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I think that this polycule that we call our city council is getting out of control.

Nichole: What I wanted was more of- More foie gras? No. I wanted, like, protesters to show up at the city council meeting that was held, like, last Thursday-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: dressed as geese- ... and, like, honking through.

Daniel: Wait, in, in favor of the foie gras? They're like, "Feed us." "Feed us." "You don't know me."

Nichole: You can't speak for the geese.

Daniel: Don't kink shame. There's gainers and there's feeders. Oh

Laurel: my God.

I've been, I've been hearing about this. People are, complaining about it generally is

Nichole: Really?

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah, like We still have a homeless problem."

Daniel: And you're focusing your time on-

Laurel: Complaining about- Complaining about-

foie gras. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's a typical people- Diversion

Nichole: straw man argument.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: I think this could be the beginning of, like, a hipster war.

Laurel: Oh. Mm-hmm. Like-

Nichole: You think they're gonna come after bone marrow next?

Laurel: So it's like foodie hipsters versus vegan hipsters?

Daniel: Exactly. Exactly. It's a

Laurel: civ- civil war.

Daniel: And I don't know, my money is on the foodie hipsters because I think that they probably just have more muscle mass.

Laurel: Wow. Wow. I don't know. Those vegans are scrappy, and they don't have a lot to live for.

Daniel: speaking of obnoxious hipsters. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: I believe, Nicole, that you have something to share today

Nichole: Yep. A little segment we call Unhinged.

Daniel: Now, Unhinged is the segment so far where- ... only Nicole shares her wacky Hinge messages that she receives.

Nichole: Yeah. So, As of late, I have been exclusively broken up with by men who wish to be monogamous with their other partners.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm,

Daniel: Laurel was just sharing online. Hinge now makes it possible that you can only see people with, like, non-monogamy or polyamory- Oh ... checked as their style if you so choose.

But please do not do that- ... because we need- Yeah ... an influx of this content.

Laurel: Well, I think that they could theoretically still see Nicole and still message Nicole.

Nichole: Yeah, I think so.

Laurel: I don't see them anymore. I don't know if they see me,

Daniel: Is it like a wild animal, like, in the forest, where if you can see them, they can see you?

Laurel: It's, it's a bear-deer situation- ... for sure.

Nichole: Is that, is that a law of the jungle? Like, I've never heard that before.

Daniel: Yeah, I think it's in that Disney movie. I,

Laurel: I think it's... like, semi trucks, and if they can't

Nichole: see you- Oh, yeah, yeah. And, like, the mirrors.

Daniel: Who do you think drives those?

Bears.

Nichole: Anyways. Anyways-

Okay ...

Laurel: yeah, what are these guys driving? All right, well, this one is driving a Honda, and he has his child on top of it. Oh

Daniel: my God.

Oh, God. Wait, I wanna Okay. Okay. Hard and fast rule, do not put your children in your dating profile.

Nichole: Do not put your children in your dating profile.

Laurel: At least put an emoji over their face.

Nichole: At the very least.

Daniel: But don't ... at least put a horrific emoji in front of their face.

Yeah, like- Like, the demon. The little

Laurel: goblin one that

Daniel: is- Yeah ...

Laurel: Daniel's-

Nichole: Yeah ...

Laurel: official emoji.

Nichole: his message to me is, "Hot wife is the best life."

Laurel: Okay. Okay. Is he saying you have the best life because you're the hot wife?

Nichole: I doubt it.

Daniel: No, no, that's what he's saying. He is assuming that because you are non-monogamous and that you have a husband-

Laurel: That- ...

Daniel: you are a hot wife. Oh.

Laurel: You are s- That- ... specifically engaging in that particular kink ...

Daniel: and he's not making an overture about it.

He's not like, "Hey, can I get in on this hot wife situation?" He's just observing. He's just- Yeah, it's just an observation ... he's just, it's just an observation. You know, good for you, hot wife is the best life.

Nichole: Sure.

Laurel: We'll get you a bumper sticker.

Nichole: Thanks.

All right, uh, this next one is by a dude, and it's just the question, "Are they pierced?" "In reference to my nipples."

Daniel: Yeah. I mean, I didn't think he was talking about your partners. Do

Nichole: you,

Laurel: do you have just a picture of your nipples?

Nichole: Absolutely not. Nope, I'm just posing in, like, an outfit.

Daniel: Did you reply?

Nichole: Absolutely not.

Laurel: You should start replying for our benefit.

Nichole: What do I say to, "Are they pierced?"

Laurel: Um.

Nichole: Do I say some, like, super weird reply like, "In more ways than one"?

Laurel: Yes. Yes. Yes.

Nichole: I'm just like, what the fuck does that mean?

Laurel: Yes. say, Yes, their story is told in ink and metal."

Nichole: Oh, God. All right. this one says, "Any interest in cuckold like me?"

Laurel: Like you wanna cuckold him or-

Nichole: Dunno.

Daniel: I don't think he understands how cuckold works. He should talk to the hot wife guy-

Laurel: Yeah ... '

Daniel: cause

Laurel: I think- Yeah They should get together and- Yeah ... figure out.

Nichole: Yep.

Daniel: Like, I think the hot wife guy at least understands how things work, and I can understand his point of view.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: This is like, "Would you like to get into a relationship with me so that you can cheat on me with your husband?"

Nichole: I don't know. I don't know.

Laurel: Interesting.

Nichole: Okay.

Laurel: Interesting.

Nichole: So I also ha- you know, I have this question on my Hinge profile that's like, "What does polyamory mean to you?" Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get a lot of, I won't say interesting answers.

Yeah. This one gave me pause. " I've been in poly couples as both a main and an alt- ... and in my experience, the most important thing is how well someone gets along with the other main. Everyone in a poly situation is involved.

Side relationships don't work."

Daniel: So mains and sides. Is this guy a foodie? I, I think that it's really important to have an appe-teaser or two in your life.

Laurel: Oh, wait. Okay, so there's mains, alts, and sides. Or, are sides and alts interchangeable?

Nichole: I don't know.

Laurel: And you can only have mains?

Daniel: But then what is

Nichole: an alt?

Daniel: There are certain functions in the relationship that you can only access via the alt partner. You know, like, like cut and paste and stuff.

Nichole: Oh my God. Uh,

Laurel: that's options-

Nichole: For you Mac users.

Laurel: but I'm thinking of, like alt, like an alt hitter, like a pinch hitter.

Daniel: Oh.

Laurel: Like, like you have- Yeah, like you- ... your main relationship- Yeah,

Nichole: and then you tap in the

Laurel: alt. Uh-huh, and then when they're, like, tired.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. That's my favorite way to have threesomes.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: All right. this one just, I, it was... Okay. His answer to what does polyamory mean to you was, "Weird. I don't think I've ever tried to answer this question or verbalize it to someone." And I was kinda like,

Daniel: You still haven't.

Nichole: You, yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: You still haven't, and I think you're stopping the thinking at the wrong place.

Nichole: Yeah. I mean, most of the time with these answers I'm like, what was your objective? especially the ones that are like, "It's gross,"

Daniel: I understand those more, 'cause that's just straightforward negging.

I understand what they're trying to get. Ah. They're trying to get a rise out of you.

Nichole: Right, right, right.

Daniel: This guy seems to not realize that there's anybody on the other end of his comment. He's just-

Nichole: Yeah ...

Daniel: is, is kind of, he, maybe he's like, you know, part of the same school as the hot wife guy, that he's just like,

he's, it's

Laurel: just self-reflections as comments. Well, they don't keep diaries. They, like, think, like, dating apps are, like, writing prompts for your journal. "Weird. I've never thought about this one. Good night, diary."