Laurel: I need to get my toes done. I need to get my nails on the toe done.

Nichole: My nails on the toe done?

Laurel: I do have nails on my fingers, but, my pay pig likes the toenails better.

He's a foot guy, so...

Nichole: What?

Laurel: He likes feet. Oh,

Daniel: God. That, I don't think that was the part that she was-

Laurel: Confused about. I, I- What are my pay pig?

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Is, is that

Laurel: an

Daniel: app?

Laurel: no, but I've thought about automating it before. Yeah, yeah.

Nichole: Automating what?

Laurel: the gentleman who I findom for.

Nichole: What?

Laurel: I say, " I want nice things.

Pay me for them." Uh-huh. And he says, " Yes, Mommy," and sends me money.

Nichole: Laurel.

Daniel: Money for Mommy.

Laurel: Money for Mommy.

Nichole: Laur- we can't have a musical breakdown right now.

Laurel, I've known you for how many years?

Laurel: Four and a half?

Nichole: This is the first time I'm hearing about this.

Laurel: Really?

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: Oh. Yeah.

Nichole: Tell me- ... everything.

Laurel: Uh, we met when I was living in the Bay Area.

we were dating for a while, I don't know how long, not super long time before... he was, he's monogamous. Shh. Shh.

Daniel: The, the shh is like the quiet-

Laurel: Yeah, that's what- Don't

Daniel: tell anybody.

Laurel: Don't tell anybody. but yeah, so we were dating and it w- like, we knew there was an expiration on it. he was one of the people that I had to break up with myself for him- Hmm

'cause he was like, "Oh, I met this other woman and she's, she wants to be exclusive now. It's time in our relationship." And I was like, " Okay, is that what you want?" And he was like, " Well, yeah." And I was like, "Okay."

Nichole: Bye.

Laurel: Go have that. Um, but he was super subby.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Uh, he's an Army veteran.

Daniel: Hence the, agency training wheels that you needed to put on him to get out of the relationship.

Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's other parts of his life where he, takes charge or whatever, but he's very, very subby kinky. He was the first person I pegged, which was really fun. Aw. Yeah, really sweet.

Daniel: And you've been thinking about it ever since and just trying to get that-

Laurel: I'm always chasing that high, baby

Daniel: trying to get that big schlong in me.

Laurel: And you're like, "I have pelvic floor problems." And I'm like, "Let me fix them, bitch."

Daniel: How do you think I got pelvic floor problems in the first place? Not

Laurel: from me.

Daniel: I want you to have my pelvic floor problems.

Laurel: I gotta erase those problems and present my own.

Nichole: How did this happen?

Laurel: Can this

Nichole: be Laurel's how-to guide?

Laurel: Laurel's how-to guide. accidentally meet a super subby guy, date him for a little while, be open to his weird kinks. and then, Like, give it a few years, and then one day he texts you, and he's like, "Hey, how would you feel about this arrangement?"

Nichole: What?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: This just fell into your lap?

Laurel: Oh, yeah. blessed.

Daniel: it's just, like, me getting laid off, more on that later, that, like- ... Laurel would have never done it for herself, so she just needed a pay pig to present.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. But I, I have one serious question, okay? It's not

Laurel: serious at all.

Nichole: It's not serious at all.

Daniel: Well, that's awful presumptuous- ... of both of you. He's getting your toenails done.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Okay. Has there been consideration that your pay pig is helping you with your piggies?

Laurel: That's cute

Daniel: Welcome to Polyamateur Hour.

Nichole: I'm Nicole.

Laurel: I'm Laurel.

Daniel: I'm Daniel.

Nichole: Does he pay for the trays of bacon that you eat?

Daniel: And they're carved off of his side.

Laurel: Oh, God. Yeah. Nasty. I'm not a cannibal.

Nichole: What the fuck, dude?

Laurel: Wow, darkness. Yeah.

Nichole: I really hate cannibalism. It really I really- It is- ... don't like it ...

Daniel (2): Nicole is taking a stand here on Polyamateur Hour against cannibalism. I'm for sexualizing pickles, and Nicole is against cannibalism.

What's your platform,

Laurel: Laurel? Hmm, I'll have to work on that. We'll come across it. We'll come to it naturally.

Daniel: Yeah, it'll fall in your lap.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. I'm for just letting the universe happen, man.

Nichole: I was just, I was gonna make a pretty easy joke about bringing home the bacon- The bacon, yeah ... and with the

Laurel: piggies, but.

Well, I could, I could start demanding that he pay for bacon, but the bacon also just falls in my lap, and by fall in my lap, I mean that my queerplatonic partners, Liz and Visna, bring it to my house, and then they leave it there on accident.

Nichole: And then you always come over to our house and go, "Oh my God, you guys, I just ate so much bacon."

This has happened more than

Daniel: once. It's true. Have you, have you considered that the God of the Hebrews might be trying to tell you something?

Laurel: Yeah. It's, Financially abuse your pigs; don't eat them.

Nichole: I'm really happy for you.

Laurel: Thank you.

Nichole: I think that's pretty-

Laurel: I think it's one of the best things I've ever done

Nichole: I don't, I don't know that I could be prouder of you. I'm like r- I, I'm gonna brag about this, if that's okay, to like most people. Well, yeah.

Daniel: I think we should get you a pay pig. Or if you're uncomfortable with the demeaning language, maybe like a dough doggy or a cash kitty.

Aw,

Laurel: a cash kitty.

Nichole: I think we should get you one, baby.

Daniel: Oh yeah, I do need the money.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. I feel like I don't have the time.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Like, I feel like that's just another thing that I would have to take care of.

Daniel: you have some passion that you could put into it, though. the look in your eyes,

Nichole: No, I really want this for other- I wanna be the madam-

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: No. ...

Nichole: for the findoms. I wanna, I wanna organize- ... the-

Laurel: If you require some financial domination- Yeah ... email us at polyamateurhour@gmail.com. Nicole will delegate that out- ... to her findom army.

Nichole: Oh, I will send you a questionnaire, and I will connect you with the findom that is gonna be most suited to your needs.

Laurel: I actually really like this, 'cause I have thought about scaling this.

Daniel: Are we gonna start the app? The pay pig app?

Laurel: Yeah, let's start the pay pig app.

Daniel: It's got to exist already.

Laurel: Yeah, I'll look for it.

Daniel: Stuberts, Google pay pig for us, and then, then write to polyamateurhour@gmail.com and let us know.

Laurel: How that goes.

Daniel: Yeah. We, this is how we should Google things from now on in order to decrease our screen time.

Nichole: Outsource it. It's like

Laurel: a four-week turnaround time.

Nichole: That's what it used to take. You'd have to go to the library, go through the microfiche. Like, things used to take time, and we were happier.

Laurel: This is true.

This

Daniel: is true.

Nichole: And there was less Satan around, so you know.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I mean, I don't know. Like, I'm

Nichole: kinda- That's a joke. There was way more Satan back in the- ... back in the '80s.

Daniel: I like a little Satan.

Laurel: Make America Satan again.

Daniel: So guess why I need the money.

Laurel: Why, Daniel?

Daniel: Because I got laid off this week. Aw. It's fresh off the presses.

Nichole: Is this a segment?

Daniel: I think so. Although honestly, I'm starting to get into the phase of like happy about it. Yeah. Like, "Oh, I'm gonna spend some time with some fun employment. I'm going to do something completely different now. I'm gonna be a dancer." Aw.

Laurel: Oh. We you. Nicole, what the fuck are we gonna do about this?

Daniel: But I'm, I am gonna channel, some of the anger- that I've been, that I've been- Uh-huh ... feeling about it, and about the world in general, and the conditions that in part led to this layoff-

Nichole: Yes ...

Daniel: and a little bit of a bone to pick

Nichole: I think we've expanded bone picks outside of, to outside of polyamory, yes?

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. Unless you were in some kind of relationship with m- many of your colleagues.

Daniel (2): I mean, How much does your relationship with your employer, resemble the, like, just totally dysfunctional relationships where you give all the love and the, effort and they give nothing back and you're totally dependent on them?

Like, it is a really fucked up relationship in certain ways. It is,

Laurel: yeah.

Nichole: It is, yeah.

Daniel: And when you are on the brand side, as I have been for so many years working directly for a company, it is relatively, like, financially monogamous. I'm not really supposed to go out and do things for others, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: one of the elements that has led to this layoff is this has been a Silicon Valley company that I have been working for.

I apologize to the world at large.

Laurel: Yeah, we should make this an atonement section really.

Daniel: Oh, yeah?

Laurel: Yeah. A new

Nichole: segment?

Laurel: A new segment where Daniel atones for his crimes against humanity. For working for a Silicon Valley company.

Daniel: one of the conditions that kind of led to this is the increasing march automation of creative work, copywriting in industries especially throughout Silicon Valley.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I've been living with this kind of other world in this corner of my head, right?

Like, okay, my ordinary day-to-day life, I'm surrounded by you crazy lefties, you know? Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: I thought you were gonna say Ukrainian lefties.

Daniel: Hmm. I mean- At least

Nichole: one ...

Laurel: that's true.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Who's the Ukrainian? Oh, you're, you're-

Nichole: Me.

Laurel: Oh, two.

Daniel: Are you guys gonna compare your Ukrainian parts?

Nichole: That's gonna be the drop there. Star Trek references.

Daniel: so at the same time, I have this whole other cast of characters in this remote work digital environment who are all, like, living in Silicon Valley.

Yeah. And, like, their entire world philosophies are, like, built on the hopes, desires, goals, of Silicon Valley.

Laurel: Well, they're all living on top of, like, a giant Superfund site.

Daniel: Oh, I thought you were gonna say- So ... Hellmouth.

Laurel: Also, well- Same. Same, same. Same, same. Yeah. But different.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: people are probably growing demonic mutations out of- Yeah ... the ground there, so.

Daniel: Yeah. So one of the last things that I did for this company which shan't be named, was design a AI, like, copy generator to help do the, you know, everyday work. Like, stuff- Mm-hmm

that, we could easily automate, and I thought that I was protecting my job, I thought that I'm learning this skill. I'm going to at least have this in my pocket because the world is changing so very quickly beneath my feet, but they're not gonna just turn around and lay me off immediately once they have this- Hmm

function. I don't know that that's the reason. That, you know, there are lots of factors going into it, but People are seeing it everywhere.

Nichole: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Daniel (2): And so maybe my bone to pick isn't necessarily just with this company getting laid off, like it is with Capitalism-driven AI in general. Yeah ... and, and people like myself who are willing to fucking,

Laurel: Simp for the man?

Daniel: Yes. Yeah.

Laurel: Because you think it's gonna benefit you while it destroys everyone else?

Daniel: And look, hey, I just shot myself in the foot, right?

Laurel: Yeah. I would say in the wiener.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: I don't know why. You use that more than your feet.

Daniel: Yeah. Wow. Wow. You, I think you simultaneously called me, unethical, lazy, and a perv- All at once. ... all, all at once.

Laurel: I would amend your statement because I'm, I'm gonna speak for you.

Daniel: Okay.

Laurel: So you're not mad at AI, 'cause AI is just a tool, but I would be pissed at all of these Silicon Valley dumpster jerk faces who keep pushing it like it's an inevitability- Yes ... and a necessity-

Nichole: It's the inevitability thing that really gets me.

It's

Laurel: bullshit.

Nichole: It's such bullshit because How can you say something is inevitable if if you can't see into the future ? Like, there is the inevitability that we will run out of water-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: right, to cool all these data centers. But there's also a ton of legislation that's now happening in Oregon where they're limiting the number of data centers- Yeah

that can be built. Like, those last data centers in Beaverton, those might be the last. And therefore, like, you know, there are gonna be more and more states who are gonna be like, "Nope, you can't build data centers here." As long as we have a federal government and state government, that could keep happening.

Daniel: I should have known better, right?

Nichole (2): I mean, I don't know that you should have known better.

Nichole: are you at fault for trusting them?

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: I don't think so.

Daniel: I think I'm at fault for believing that helping construct an AI function at the job would make me more valuable.

Nichole: I guess, but like you were saying, the sands are shifting under your feet all the time.

I had to take a, a six-hour course on ChatGPT to be certified a level three, quote-unquote.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Or else they wouldn't pay me at my job. Like, if I didn't do that past June 30th- Yeah ... like, the, my paychecks would stop. Yeah. Like,

Laurel: that is wild.

Nichole: It's insane.

Laurel: but I was telling you to sabotage the tool from the start.

Nichole: It'll sabotage itself. Once they're putting in all their dumb prompts and, like, not really understanding that what they're putting in is, is slop, all they're gonna get out is slop.

I still maintain that you weren't at fault. And, you know, I also get to have my own feelings about this company and the way that they treated you, and fuck 'em.



Laurel: I think that, um, one, everybody needs to unionize.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Everybody.

Everybody.

Nichole: Everybody. Literally everybody.

Laurel: if you wanna know m- more on how to do that, just let me know. I would plug an event, but it's gonna be over by the time this airs, so Ah.

But I think we should switch this to a high note.

Daniel: Oh, yeah?

Laurel: Yeah, 'cause I have related to your layoff-

a crazy Sexy poly

Nichole: Crazy Sexy Poly is when we tell a crazy, sexy poly story that isn't really that crazy or sexy.

Laurel: Yeah, and this one all starts with Daniel getting laid off.

Nichole: Huh. Mm.

Laurel: Aw. Uh, so yeah, we found out you were getting laid off. and then we ha- this is also in the middle of, like, Nicole is still recovering from surgery right now. Yeah. So- Great timing. What a ch-

Nichole: Super timing ...

Laurel: what a champ for being here and pretending like she has energy.

This is the perkiest I've heard Nicole in days.

Nichole: You know why?

Laurel: Why?

Nichole: Part of it is fueled by my anger.

Laurel: Love it. So- So we're, we're aggravating and stressing out Nicole so that she could have more energy.

Nichole: I'm not, stressed. I'm too blessed to be stressed. Um,

Daniel: you should not disclose this kind of information, because this means- Yeah

whenever we see you being sluggish in the future, we'll just be like, " Make her mad." Make her mad. Poke f- poke the Nicole.

Nichole: You will regret it.

Laurel: All right, go on. Uh, it was after I think you and Nancy. That was a pause for a Nancy drop. I think you had both, or maybe just you had just, uh, went and saw Nicole in recovery, and then, uh, I came over to your house to hang out with you and Nancy for a little bit, 'cause you were down in the dumps-

Nichole: Mm

Laurel: for being laid off, and we were just chatting, not in great detail, but just, like, acknowledging, like, okay, we have to put house buying on hold, and there are some things, like, for our wedding celebration that we're gonna have to downgrade or find alternatives for or whatever. and then I sent a voice note to Shawn the next day.

Yeah. I think that evening or the next day, and was just, like, you know, giving them an update on what was happening. and also just, like, venting, I think some of my stress a little bit too. Mm-hmm. and then Shawn Venmoed me- A lot of money Oh. and it just said, "Happy wedding"- Oh

with a bunch of, like, hearts and emojis and shit, and then messaged me and was like, "You know, use it for the wedding or the house or whatever." Mm-hmm. it was just so sweet.

Nichole: I love that. That's very sweet.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: It is.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Thank you, Sean.

Laurel: Yeah, thank you, Sean. Thanks,

Nichole: Sean.

Laurel: , Especially after-

Nichole: What'd you do?

Daniel: What'd you- Ooh ... what'd you do? What'd you do?

Laurel: Here's a little poly mind fuck. So just prior, just prior to this layoff incident and Sh- and Sean being so sweet, I got a text message from Sean that was like, "Oh, are you moving in with Daniel?"

And I was like, "Yeah, the three of us are trying to buy a house together." And Sean was like, "Why didn't you tell me?"

Daniel: Now we have established, we have

Laurel: established- Oh my God. Oh my God ...

Daniel: this, this is a pattern, right?

Laurel: This is a thing that I do.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: and they brought this up because their other partner was listening to the pod about I think probably the, our episode with Lauren Goshay, and then asked Sean about, like- Yeah ... the situation, and Sean was like, "What?"

Ooh. Oh, my God. Oh,

Daniel: my God. So describe for the new Stuberts, the Newberts-

Laurel: The Newberts what Sean is? What a Sean is?

your non-binary fairy twink partner that lives in Portugal.

Daniel: No, I, I mean, I, I think that they could, uh, extrapolate that.

Yeah. Like Sean, the energy of Sean, you close your eyes and you just-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Daniel: you see them.

Laurel: Yeah. Right? It's very palpable.

Daniel: no, what I was going to ask is for you to walk them through the mental process that went this-

Laurel: Oh, of how this happened?

Daniel: How's this h- how did this happen?

Laurel: Okay, so this lack of disclosure is not a new problem for me.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Daniel says knowingly. It is because I, I have conversations in my mind.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: it's sort of the same way that I forget, like I type out a text message, and then I forget to actually send- Mm-hmm ... the text message. Mm-hmm. It's a similar thing where, like I've had the conversation in my mind, and then, it's vivid and complete enough that I think I've actually had the conversation.

Daniel: Uh-huh.

Laurel: Oh, my God. And then I'm like, "Okay, that's done."

And this is like, this is also like a reflection of like my worsening, like memory or like mental state in perimenopause- Mm-hmm ... where I literally, like I cannot remember if I took my meds or not. Like I, there's things that like- Yeah ... maybe I should have done five minutes ago, and I literally cannot remember if I did them.

Yeah. and so I convince myself that I've had conversations that I haven't had. Yeah. And, and I think in part because they're not a big deal. Yeah. Like, there's no way in which like Sean would have been upset by this, like- Right ... or angrier about it. Like, the upsetting part is that I did not tell them.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Like, that is the problem.

Daniel: Yeah, you got this huge thing going on in your life, and-

Laurel: Yeah, and I didn't think to like mention it to my longest term partner.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: there are plenty of things that I am anxious and avoidant about. This is not one of them. Yeah. It is like an actual just like stupid flub kind of.

Nichole: They didn't think that it was you being avoidant, did they?

Laurel: I don't think so. Okay. Like, like there was some obvious like concern-

Nichole: Mm-hmm

Laurel: in like, 'cause I think, at least I read the like why didn't you tell me as a concern, but more of a concern like, "Oh, do you not trust me?" Yeah. Or like, not like an attack. Yeah. Like- Mm-hmm ... "You bitch, why didn't you tell me this?" It was just like

Daniel: Now, well I've been in this situation with you before.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: Several times.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: Several times.

Laurel: Over and over again.

Daniel: it is frustrating like because- Yeah ... And, and you will probably identify with this, I'm looking at Nicole now, laurel, like, it's very hard to get mad at you about these, even if there are situations where I could wanna be upset, right? Like, because I know that it's not in your control.

Laurel: It's just dumb.

Daniel: Yeah. And it's like how you feel, Nicole, about my ADHD some- sometimes, right? Yeah.

Where, you, you know, sometimes have some resentment or some annoyance about it. and then like I remind you that I'm dumb.

Laurel: Oh, my God. Anyways, I need to be better about that. and I think part of it is, is an exercise in, like, saying it right away.

Yeah. Like, sometimes I do that where it's just like, "Okay, like, this thing happened. I just need to tell everybody who I need to tell immediately- Yeah ... before I forget who I have or haven't told or think I had a conversation I didn't have." And maybe a little bit more like, uh, overcompensating of like, "I told you this thing, right?"

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just to make

Nichole: sure it happened. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Laurel: Uh, anyways, I'm sorry, Sean. So, uh, Anka, when you listen to this, please tell Sean I'm sorry.

Nichole: Oh, that's funny.

Daniel: This is y- our communication- Yeah ... with Sean via the podcast is a lot like the Stubert Googling, the s-

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: The s- the Stugling that we have requested.

Laurel: In six to 12 weeks. This will get back around to somebody. Again, thank you, Sean, for sending us some moolah,

It was a very wholesome poly moment.

Nichole: That's the kinda shit that I love. Yeah, yeah. I mean, not just, like... I don't know. I also feel like-

Laurel: Not just the sex and the leftover pizza.

Nichole: No, I think that, whenever we can, I think we do a good job of, because we still live under capitalism, of financially supporting each other.

Laurel: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Nichole: And, like, pooling our resources together. Like, last night people brought over, oh my God, three pizzas- ... an entire tray of macaroni and cheese.

Daniel: Yes. Yeah.

Nichole: All these fucking chicken wings. Yeah. I got soup delivered by somebody. Yeah. Aw. Somebody brought Thai food. Yeah. Flowers. Just, like, it's-

Daniel: All, all just in exchange for our sexual favors.

It's amazing.

Which I do consider this podcast a sexual favor to the public at large.

Nichole: Yeah. You're welcome.

Daniel (2): Yeah. Yeah. which also brings me onto, like, We want to be able to continue, right, to both in the time that it takes to, like, produce this, to invest in, like, improving our gear-

Laurel: Mm-hmm ...

Daniel: to make sure that we have enough money to really, go all out for Star Trek Las Vegas-

Laurel: Mm-hmm ...

Daniel: this year. Which, where we make our ceremonial appearance.

So I would like to - really for the first time declare a very special poly pyramid scheme.

Past poly pyramid schemes, right, are generally, like, how do you spread the word? How do you get other people into the podcast? for this one we are going to ask... Can you do the Bernie Sanders impression?

Laurel: Oh, no.

I've never done a Bernie.

Daniel: Okay. Well, I mean, kind of every time you do me it's a little bit like you're doing a Bernie.

I don't mean an impression, I mean-

Laurel: I'm Bernie-ing you.

Daniel: No, you're, it's like, it's like- You're doing a Bernie ... it's the closest you come to having sex with Bernie Sanders is having sex with me.

Laurel: Oh. Yeah, yeah. So we are asking you for the first time to contribute to Polyamature Hour financially. And we are not doing this by putting ads in the pod yet.

We, we reserve the right to fuck that shit up later, but-

Daniel: Yeah. we started a Ko-fi account. it is a platform that basically collects tips. It's like having a Patreon, but we don't have to manage the fuck- which we also have a Patreon, which you should join. But it's like we don't- We do?

have to manage the account in the same way that we have to for- Mm-hmm ... the Patreon to have, like, tiers and all that shit. Ko-fi, it's just a platform for all y'all Stubert's to come give us a tip. Also, you can subscribe, to give a monthly tip if you wanna just keep it coming.

and that's gonna ensure that we're able to keep on delivering the chuckle fuckery that you expect.

Laurel: Yeah.

it's ko-fi/polyamateurhour

Nichole: Thank you.

Laurel: Thank you.

Nichole: I feel really... I feel weird.

Laurel: It's weird.

Daniel: Yeah, but you know what? So is capitalism.

Nichole: It is, and I do think that we provide a good product.

Laurel: Yeah. if you have a few extra dollars and you're just like, "Here's some doll hairs"- Yeah

and you just sprinkle it.

Daniel: If you don't contribute, then, you know, we'll know that you don't really like the podcast that much.

Laurel: This is your passive aggressive mother-in-law speaking.

Daniel: but you know what?

Laurel: What?

Daniel: The Stewberts do love and trust us enough to occasionally ask us a question.

Laurel: Cool. So now that we know how inept I am at relationships, why don't we give some advice for other people's relationships?

Daniel: Are you proposing that these others, as you call them, who you have now othered-

Laurel: Oh, yeah

Daniel: that they should ask the amateurs?

Laurel: Yeah. How did this question come to us?

This question came to us through our anonymous form that you can get to at polyamateurhour.com-

Daniel: Yeah ...

Laurel: to ask your own questions. You can also email us at polyamateurhour@gmail.com. You can DM us on Instagram or BlueSky, or you can go to our subreddit, Polyamature Hour, and, and type it up there.

Nichole: Um, okay. Any advice for making de-escalation easier? My sexual attraction for the partner I've been with the longest has essentially faded away completely.

We are communicating openly about what we both want and are definitely going to stay partners, just at a more queerplatonic capacity. But I feel so bad that they're going through a painful thing in losing an aspect of our relationship. How can I make it easier for them without rubbing it in that I'm the one making the change in the first place?

Interesting.

I think I just wanna pause on the idea of de-escalation. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. do we need a, um-

Laurel: Normie corner?

Nichole: Sure.

Laurel: Welcome to Normie Corner. We're talking about de-escalation.

Nichole: so basically taking a relationship down the other escalator?

I don't know, like what is-

Laurel: Yeah. I mean, I think it is tricky in that, if you're looking at relationships from a more anarchic point of view, it's hard to delineate what is and isn't escalation.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. So I think that, like, in polyamory, we talk about, like escalating relationships, de-escalating relationships, because we don't have, like a good roadmap.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: And this is language that often refers to things within the traditional confines of monogamous relationships. Correct. These kinds of milestones, like the, the re- we talk about the relationship escalator- Yeah ... which is, like a series of steps. It's like, you know, monogamous relationships think about the relationship in much like that, uh, the evolutionary illustration of the, uh, ape learning to walk upright.

And so eventually you have the, uh, the businessman with the, the briefcase- Mm-hmm ... at the end, which is the man you marry.

Laurel: Mm-hmm, yeah. Societally, we presume that certain things mean that your relationship is escalating. Yes. So you're exclusive, you're having sex, then you move in together, you get engaged, you get a pet.

Mm-hmm. You own a car together. You buy a house together.

Daniel: Rob a bank together.

Laurel: You rob a bank together. All of these things are escalations.

Nichole: Yes.

So I don't wanna argue this person out of their definition of what escalation is. Yeah. But I think there are plenty of examples where taking sex off the table isn't necessarily a de-escalation.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: And so because they're putting it in those parameters- I would question whether or not they actually do just wanna take sex off the table and have a queerplatonic relationship or if they just basic- if they don't wanna be with this person anymore romantically.

Laurel: I mean, I looked at it more of, like, their partner wanted sex in the relationship.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. And so now they're going to be missing something from the relationship that they used to get or were hoping for in the relationship.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And so that feels like a de- something.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: And then we just kind of, without over-examining it or examining it too much, we're just like, "Okay, that's a de-escalation," 'cause, like...

Daniel: It's almost like maybe they're asking, or Stubert is asking, how to help their Stubert, once removed, not perceive this as a de-escalation. I

Nichole: think that's what I'm talking about, is like- Yeah ... I don't know that the Stubert can control what that person- No, they- ... how this person feels about it.

Laurel: They can't, and I think, I, like, I think the big part is, like, you just, you have to sit with this discomfort that you made someone else uncomfortable.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Pretty much, yeah.

Laurel: And, like, it sucks, but I think that it is really easy for it to turn from the point of, like, I wanna my partner through this difficult thing, to I want my partner to feel okay so that I can feel okay about the choice that I made.

Nichole: Exactly. Yeah. And I think that, like, this person can't really be surprised that their partner is- Is disappointed or upset

is disappointed or upset. Yeah. You know? Like, and might want to change the relationship from beyond just queerplatonic. Yeah. Like, might want to be out of the relationship.

Laurel: it sounds like they had a conversation about it, like, taking this at face value, it sounds like they had a conversation about it and they both decided like, "Yes, we still want a relationship with each other."

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it's just gonna, like, take some adjustment from both of them.

Daniel: I mean, as far as ways to make it easier on your partner, which is, I think, the ask here, right? Is, Stubert, you can start showing up in other ways. Like, just make sure that you are showing up in all the other facets of the relationship, you know, whether it is, you know, maybe you still have romantic nights out if it's, like, you're spending time together.

You know, keep the communication and the, the intimacy, other- Yeah. Mm-hmm ... other kinds of intimacy going. you know, give them rides to the airport, which is part of your duty as being a polyamorous person- ... in a relationship with anybody.

if they get endosurgery, you know, uh, help them stand up and lay down.

Laurel: like, still show up romantically.

Daniel: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Laurel: and, don't just become roommates. You just, you have to be comfortable with them being a little uncomfortable about the whole thing and the transition being maybe awkward

Daniel: Maybe also make sure that you're really clear with what you want out of it and that you're communicating it very clearly.

in the first category of knowing what you want, do you want to no longer ever have a sexual relationship with this person, that this is a, a permanent shift in your dynamic? Or is this something where you would reintroduce- you're open to reintroducing sex down the line?

This is just an example. And have you communicated this really clearly? Like, if you are certain that this is, like, a permanent change in your relationship, have you really made it clear that that is your intention

Nichole: I've never been in this situation before.

Daniel: Nobody has ever said that they do not wanna have sex with you?

Nichole: No. People have definitely said that they don't wanna have sex with me. Again, I'm just taking this at face value from what we have heard, which is not a lot, and I don't know why this bothers me, and this m- maybe this is something to talk about with my therapist, but, like-

Daniel: Why talk to your therapist when you have Polyamory Alley?

That's a

Nichole: great tag. I think it's the I want sex off the table and now I want a clear- a queerplatonic relationship. It's coming from this Stubert. Like yeah, they might have had a conversation where they both came to the table and decided about that, but like I'm concerned that this other partner is like just kind of going along with this- Mm ... and it isn't what they actually want. Mm. Because this Stubert so far, i- in just what we know, is calling the shots, is saying, "I don't wanna have sex anymore," not, "We don't wanna have sex anymore."

Daniel: I mean, that's just how relationships work where that is not like a collaborative decision necessarily. Yeah. Like if you don't wanna have sex with somebody an- anymore, you don't like have a-

Laurel: Yeah, that's a unilateral.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. That's a unilateral, and it should be a unilateral.

Nichole: maybe just because I'm like a hyper-individual person- Mm-hmm ... and I don't want... This is what's been so hard for me about the surgery is like asking for help and like- Yeah ... receiving help. I don't like it.

And so I wouldn't want my partner to like gently deescalate me. Mm. Like I would have to have my own process about it- Yeah ... and my own feelings about it and want to come to my own feelings about it-

Daniel: Yeah ...

Nichole: rather than having somebody kind of usher me into this like sense of ease, which might not be easy for me.

Daniel: Yeah, y- b- I mean, to, uh, psychoanalyze you for a moment-

Nichole: Great ...

Daniel: which you kind of asked for, didn't you? You were like, "Maybe this is for therapy." You know? You know? Y- you have a very, like, um-

Laurel: Stuperts, we're on thin ice here.

Daniel: Oh, yeah. Like, the, the suspicion, the suspicion here. Yeah. I think you're gonna agree with this statement.

You have a pretty binary idea of relationship versus no relationship.

Nichole: True.

Daniel: And when your relationships end, you prefer these relationships to be completely clean-cut. Like, goodbye. What is the, what do, what do we call it? The dead to me list.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: So not everybody is like that, and I think that especially in the world of polyamory , and queer relationships, people are much more comfortable with gray area gradations of relationships, right?

Yeah. And that, I would caution against reading too much of what you want in your relationships- Mm-hmm ... into what the Stubert or what their Stubert wants removed wants.

Nichole: that's very fair.

I can't help but take a personal lens with this question, and yeah, I do feel, like, very binary and black and white in my thinking when it comes to relationships. Yep. Like, because that's how I can make sense of the world. Like- Yeah ... I can't, I cannot deal with ambiguity.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Right? It gives me heightened anxiety, so, like, I would not be able to deal with this. Stubert wants removed might be able to. I'm s- Might be totally cool with it.

Daniel: I'm shocked that you have dealt with me for so long.

Laurel: Mr. Ambiguous over here.

Daniel: I, I mean, I am. What I-

Laurel: Look at him. What- Gay, straight, we don't know.

Nichole: But your intention in our relationship has never been ind- ambiguous. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: Like, you have been incredibly clear about how you feel about me.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: And the way that you feel about Laurel. Yes. And the way you feel about other partners.

Yeah. That has never been a question to me. If it was a question, we wouldn't be doing this podcast right now.

I never felt a hesitancy from you.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Like, when you first told me you loved me, like, I really believed it.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: And- '

Daniel: Cause I was fucking your brains out at the time. Oh, God.

Nichole: Damn ... the subsequent times after that I still believe it-

Daniel: Yeah ...

Nichole: nine years, nine and a half years down the line.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree that, like, you need to give your partner space to, like, process and have their feelings, and I think the biggest thing you can do is just be patient about it.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. Be patient and try not to be defensive about it.

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: and otherwise it's not your job, not in a, like, independent you don't owe them shit way, but in a, don't rub it in and don't, don't try and coddle in an infuriating way.

Nichole: Especially if you're having sex with other people.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: And you do have, like, a kitchen table dynamic- Yeah ... or you have a garden party dynamic, and they know that you're having sex with other people. Yeah. Like, you already know not to rub it in.

Laurel: Yeah. And yeah, maybe, maybe it's at a where it's like be- maybe it's good for a little while to be a little bit more discreet about your other dalliances or whatever.

Nichole: That's what I call my relationships.

Laurel: Yes. Wow. My dalliances.

Nichole: Wow.

Daniel: This might be a Polyamature Hour first.

Laurel: What?

Daniel: Laurel is advising discretion.

Nichole: Oh my God.

Laurel: I do practice discretion. Think of all the things I'm not telling you.

Daniel: Jesus.

Nichole: Not because she doesn't mean to not tell you. But simply because

Daniel: The, the discretion of cognitive decline.

So look on

Shall we move along home?

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: Well, what do we got?

Nichole: We got a little Is This Poly? So this was suggested to us by a Stuart. Did this come- Like, ages ago. I don't remember how it arrived.

Daniel: I don't remember who suggested it.

Nichole: Yeah. It

Daniel: might've been Sam.

Laurel: Oh, maybe. Baseline Sam.

Nichole: We're just gonna say that it was. Thanks, Sam. Um, so Sam suggested that we watch the- ... season one, episode six of Friends. Called The One With The Butt.

Laurel: The One With The Butt.

Daniel: The butt has nothing to do with the poly storyline of this episode. Surprisingly.

Nichole: So everyone knows Friends, this big hit sitcom- ... in the '90s to the early 2000s. We all watched it. Our parents watched it. We were there for it.

Daniel: For some of you junior Stuarts, your grandparents watched it.

Fuck.

I would just like to note, if you are young enough that your grandparents watched Friends, you are too young to be listening to this podcast- ... and please turn it off right now.

Nichole: Is that 30 years ago?

Laurel: Oh my God. Yeah?

Nichole: 2004, 2014 to 2024. Oh. Oh my God. Okay, so-

Laurel: 30 years ago-

Nichole: Christ almighty ...

Laurel: this show was on TV and I could watch it.

Daniel: Friends is about a gang of railway workers that-

Nichole: Is that the oldest thing you could think of?

So plot of Friends, there's six friends. They live in a couple apartments. Some of them are across from each other in, in a building.

Daniel: this reminds me so much of your impression of Harvey Fierstein describing the plot of Cats. Can, can we get the, can we get the description of Friends in the Harvey Fierstein voice?

Laurel: So we got a bunch of friends. One of them's a kook.

Oh my God.

Nichole: Um, so in this episode, they go to see Joey in, Freud the Musical.

Daniel: Which the gag in this is Freud the Musical is supposed to be awful. Like, oh, it's such a bad play and everybody has to be honest with Joey. It sounded amazing. Yeah. Like the one, the one song, like that we got like just maybe a quarter of the song- Yeah

the very intro, is like Freud talking to a patient and in song describing-

Nichole: Penis envy ...

Daniel: penis envy. I kind of want for this episode to complete that song from Freud the Musical.

Laurel: Oh.

Nichole: I think you'd... I think this is how we blow up.

You do that-

Daniel: Uh-huh.

Laurel: Oh.

Nichole: And then you grab onto the attention of Gen Z-ers on TikTok who are obsessed with Friends.

Daniel: Oh, this is a plan.

Laurel: Oh.

Nichole: And you say, "I finished the musical."

Laurel: Oh.

Daniel: Not the whole musical. I mean-

Nichole: Just that song. Okay, I finished the song ... I know,

Daniel: I know I'm unemployed now, but...

Laurel: We need a TikTok account.

We-

Daniel: We have one now.

Nichole: Oh,

Laurel: we have one now.

Nichole: All right.

Laurel: Okay, anyways.

Nichole: Anyways, um, so at this play, Chandler sees the most beautiful woman he's ever seen. Yeah. He gets up the courage to talk to her, and he gets her number, they go on a date. The friends are all at the coffee shop.

' Cause remember, remember when in the '90s you could have a part-time job and one roommate in New York and spend all your time at a coffee shop? Yep. Um, Chandler's like, "You guys, I went on a date last night with that lady." And they're like, "Oh, how'd it go?" And he was like, " it shows flashbacks of them talking and laughing and blah blah blah.

He does mention she was in the Israeli army. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. That's right.

Daniel: Weird. That was, that was one of the things that was like, whoa.

Nichole: Y-

Laurel: yeah.

Nichole: and over the course he's telling the story about their great date, blah blah blah, and then he mentions that she mentions a husband And then he's like, Well, what would that make us?" And she's like, "Well, probably, you know, like a mostly sexual relationship." Yeah.

And he's stoked.

Laurel: He's stoked about this. While he's relaying this to his friends- ... Monica is like, "Well, you have to leave her right now." She is disgusted. She is so upset about this.

Daniel: Does she say, I think she says, " Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. And then Chandler's like, "It's everybo- guy's dream."

And then it's like, "Is it other men here?" Ross is like, "No, but yes." And then Joey was like, " All of the men are shitty in their own perfect way- Yeah ... on

Nichole: this show.

Laurel: yeah, so Chandler continues to see her.

Daniel: Like, two great things I think about this portrayal.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: One is that she is portrayed as being incredibly beautiful and hot- and smart.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And this goes so much against the stereotypes that we have now kind of grown into around poly people.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Wow. Um, she seems very, like, elegant, too- Mm-hmm ... and not, like, you know, some kind of super shit show. Like... And also Jewish.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Right, yeah.

Daniel: Like, this is a beautiful, knockout, intelligent Jewish woman. Also was previously in the Israeli army. It's interesting that this is the only way that they can, like, say that a Jewish woman is hot, if she's, like, an Israeli soldier in the '90s.

Nichole: Well, it's also weird 'cause he mentioned she was Italian.

Laurel: Okay. I w- was like, did I mishear that?

Nichole: Me too, I thought I misheard it, but no. He says- Did he say

Laurel: Israeli and not Italian?

Nichole: He says Italian because of the way she says his name.

Laurel: His name. And

Nichole: then she's- And, and I was like, you do know... But-

Daniel: Oh, maybe she's a soldier of fortune. She's just going from country to country. And, like, she's like, "Who needs some killing work?"

Laurel: Wait, is the idea that, like, Chandler is so ignorant that he's just like, "A woman with an accent must be a Jewish Italian?"

Nichole: Italian.

Laurel: Oh my God. Oh, no. Excuse me. Oh, no, Nicole's dying.

What weird writing choices? I don't- I don't know what is going on there

Nichole: or an editing choice.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Like, I don't know what happened. Yeah.

Daniel: There was a whole scene with, like, flashbacks into her war experience- ... that was, that was cut. It's on the cutting room floor.

So, Chandler continues to date her, and is pretty stoked about it. Like, it seems like they're having great sex, and they just get to have fun and talk all the time.

he is, like, making her breakfast. He's a little frustrated that, like, she has to go immediately to see her boyfriend afterwards.

Laurel: Monica is still dubious.

Daniel: This was like some really like severe slut-shamy like lines-

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah ... yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Monica hates this whole thing, and I'm glad nobody listens to her.

Nichole: Ever.

Laurel: Ever. Fucking Monica. Uh, but yeah, and then we, we have a scene later on where, uh, Chandler is in bed with his lady friend, but she's gotta get up and go.

She's running late to another date, and he's like, "Oh, can't Evan or Ethan or whatever his name is wait?" And she's like, "Oh, it's not him. It's now a third man."

Daniel: Yes.

Not, not to be confused with the Third Man.

Laurel: a third man. and, and then Chandler's like, "Well, what if, what if he didn't see all of these other people?

And she's like, " A fair question.

Yeah.

Nichole: Like, all?

Laurel: and then she's like, I thought this was going great." Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. "

Laurel: you need to decide what it is you want."

Daniel: And he says, " It's like I have two Chandlers inside of me," which honestly, that was the hottest thing that he said the entire episode.

Laurel: Oh my God.

Daniel: So he says he has two Chandlers inside of him, and one is like, "Oh my God, this is amazing. Let's just enjoy this process of like n- you know, knowing each other, having fun, having great sex." And then the other Chandler is like, " Run And she's like, "Well, which Chandler are you going to listen to? The smart Chandler or the idiot?" And he's like, "The idiot."

Laurel: And then she's like, " And I love that. Yeah. Like, the drama in this, it's not really very dramatic. Yeah.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: She knows what she wants.

Nichole: Yep.

Laurel: She's not backing down from it.

There is no stupid like cowboy like love affair thing where she considers giving up the life that she has and likes.

Nichole: Correct. Yeah.

Laurel: and there is no like- coercion or pressure from her. Mm-hmm. She's just like, "You just need to decide what you want, and if it works, that's great.

If it doesn't work, fine. If you change your mind, give me a call."

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: And you know what? There's no coercion or pressure from him, really- Yeah ... either. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's, he's pretty much just like, "Oh, I guess I can't handle this."

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: You you know, at the same time, the episode, like, its sense of morality feels a little dubious because I do feel like they're setting this up as the right decision, you know?

Right? Like, normal people can't really handle these things- Yeah ... after all.

Laurel: Well, I mean, Chandler Bing cannot handle these things.

Nichole: I mean, it's a 22-minute episode- ... in the '90s. what we could have gotten could have been a lot worse-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: than the representation that we did get.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: I mean, I don't know, is this poly?

Laurel: I think so. She seemed to have multiple loving relationships even though she was like, " Oh yeah, we're mostly just, like, a sex thing." Like, she had a serious boyfriend and a husband.

Mm-hmm. Yep. She was continuing to see other people.

Nichole: Yep.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: She seemed very, like, communicative about it.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: I'm gonna say yes, too, and a relatively positive, like, portrayal of a polyamorous person, which for Friends in the '90s is shocking.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I mean, I'm gonna say yes, too. My question is- What was she doing at the play?

Why-

Laurel: Great question.

Nichole: Why was she there alone? Why was she there in the front row of Freud the Musical?

Daniel: And she's just hanging out afterwards too.

Nichole: Just by herself. show her knowing anybody in the show. She was, like, touching up her makeup as soon as the show ended.

Daniel: Okay. I- assuming that she is Jewish, is there a conspiracy?

Nichole: Oh, my God.

Daniel: Is she, like, waiting there to, you know, entrap, you know, this wholesome, corn-fed idiot, you know, into her... He, he's a, he's like a shickso? I don't know. What's the...

Nichole: Shickso.

Laurel: Wait. Was she there for Joey? She couldn't have known that Chandler was gonna be there.

Daniel: No, she's stalking Chandler. This is why it runs deep.

Laurel: Oh.

Nichole: Chandler Bing?