Daniel: Something magical happened for the first time

Nichole: What?

Daniel: And I have been purposefully holding back- ... telling Nicole.

Laurel: Do I know about it?

Nichole: Is this gonna be a delightful surprise?

Daniel: I mean, it was a delightful surprise for Laurel.

Nichole: Oh.

Laurel: I don't know what

Daniel: we're talking

Laurel: about yet, but- I,

Daniel: I don't know what your reaction will be.

Nichole: Oh, okay.

Daniel (2): For the very first time, on a certain evening a few weeks back, Laurel

pegged me.

Nichole: Oh.



Daniel: Oh, that was it. Not the reaction I expected. Boring. What's next?

Nichole: What was the reaction you were expecting? Yeah. Oh.

Daniel: I was expecting a classic Nicole gasp.

Nichole: Um, I'm happy for you.

Daniel: It was a daring move on my part. I went directly from my pelvic floor physical therapy, where I pay a person to stick their finger up my butt and- Yeah ... make me relax.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: So I felt like, okay, I'm a blank slate pelvically now. I am, I

Laurel: am- Did you, like, push the reset button? That's where your reset button is?

Daniel (2): Yeah. And we had to test Laurel's strap because it was broken. There was, like, a snap that was broken on it.

Laurel: Yeah. Uh-huh.

Daniel: And we didn't want to go into a little special party that we were going to with a questionable strap, 'cause the, dildo could just fly across the room and hit somebody in the eye.

Nichole: it.

So you needed to test it-

Nichole (2): on Daniel?

Laurel: and I just had to make sure I still had it, you know?

Nichole: Totally. '

Laurel: Cause, like ...

Nichole: Yeah, I total- I totally know what you're talking about.

Laurel: It had been a minute. My strap had been broken for so long.

Nichole: Did you put it together with duct tape?

Daniel: That would be kind of hot in its own kind of Mad Max way, I guess.

Laurel: Totally. I think what I did was still hot.

Daniel: Oh, yeah.

Nichole: What'd you do?

Daniel: She put a new snap- on the strap with a snap applier

Nichole: That's way hotter

Laurel: than duct tape. Yeah, it looks kind of like just a- Yeah

heavy duty wrench essentially. So I was there with my tools.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: that's what turned me on so much where I felt like we had to do it, watching her put that snap on.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah, I saw your mood change

Daniel (2): but I was a very different audience than your traditional use.

You know, you had to use the tiny little delicate like finger width

Laurel: that's not super uncommon with dudes.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: You're mostly tiny delicate flowers.

Daniel: I don't know why I found that flattering.

Laurel: It is. You're a tiny little delicate BB flower.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: But it didn't send me into a, a weird butt spiral.

Nichole: Good.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: I'm happy for you.

Daniel: Thank you.

Laurel: Maybe, not only are your pelvic floor problems done, but maybe I also cured your OCD.

Daniel: You just, you give Laurel an inch-

Laurel: And she takes five more.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Do you think... Maybe I can, maybe I can market this. It's like a new kind of EMDR therapy.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that's me pegging

Daniel (2): you. It's... And you have, like, this really, like, professional-looking, like, therapist webpage, right? Where you're, like, sitting there, like, in front of a plant, with a leather chair next to you or whatever, and the headline's like, "Laurel, me pegging you."

Nichole: But I want you to be in, like, a pantsuit with the strap-on over the- Over my pantsuit? Just over the pantsuit. And we don't reference it at all, but, like, you're sitting cross-legged, but, like, you're trying to sit cross-legged- ... but it's not really working.

Daniel: What- I'm just thinking of all the things that you could advertise, like curing.

I'm like... I mean, maybe it's 'cause we've been watching too much Buffy lately, but I'm like, " Poltergeists."

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Yeah, you could- So-

Laurel: An exorcism?

Daniel: Uh-huh. Cure- Are there ghost, ghosts in your butt?

Nichole: Cure poltergeists, restless leg syndrome- ... acne.

Polio, probably.

Laurel: Ooh, yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: A little, pole-io.

Nichole: Uh.

Maybe that should've been my reaction to your pegging. Uh. Uh. I mean,

Daniel: we got rid of the soundboard long ago, 'cause it was, like-

Nichole: Thank God. W-

Daniel: way too- Oh, yeah ... difficult for, uh, me to, like, focus. I would just be sitting there waiting, you know, like, can I just do this entire episode just responding by soundboard?

I

Nichole: know, your finger would hover over the button for about 10 seconds, and then we'd have to stop and...

Daniel: But, but your sounds- ... are the best for the soundboard. We really, if we kept it around- Yeah ... we should've populated it all with Nicole sounds.

Nichole: I'm my own soundboard.

That's what they call me. You know Nicole, she's such a soundboard. Actually yesterday- ... I was on the, a call with somebody, and they ex- they said something like, "Yeah, but y- you know, I wish I had like opinions like you do." And I was like, "Like you wish you shared my opinions ?" And she's like, "No. Like, like I wish I had strong opinions like you do."

Daniel: Any opinions at all?

Nichole: I was like... All

Laurel: right. Interesting.

Nichole: I know.

Laurel: I- Interesting.

Nichole: I feel like we all have very strong opinions.

Laurel: Yes, but that's why we have a podcast.

Nichole: Yeah. This person doesn't have a podcast as far as I know.

Daniel: Oh, by the way, welcome to Polyamature Hour.

Laurel: Ooh, I'm Laurel.

Nichole: I'm Nicole.

Daniel (2): I'm Daniel. You know, your strong opinions-

Nichole: Yes ...

Daniel: recently.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: you know, we discovered that when drugged-

Laurel: Oh, yeah.

Daniel: When drugged- Yeah.

Laurel: Oh, God

Daniel: your strong opinions come forth in full flower.

Laurel: Uh-huh.

Daniel: So I would like to, uh, declare a new segment, special occasion, one time only- Mm-hmm ... we hope.

Nichole: We hope.

Daniel: It is Nicole's hot takes.

Would you like to explain hot takes? Would you like to, uh, answer for yourself?

Nichole: Okay. Well...

Laurel: Explain yourself, Nicole.

Nichole: Okay. So we were prepping for my surgery,

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Nichole: Was in the hospital, I had the gown on and the Xanax in, I don't know how it came up, but we started talking about- The Greatest Generation, the podcast

Daniel: You started talking about The Greatest Generation- I

Nichole: did?

Laurel: Out, out of the blue I think you probably, you probably just had a deep-seeded, very strong opinion that had been festering there

Nichole: That I don't express 'cause I'm scared of Ben and Adam.

Daniel: Yeah. S- so a little bit of background information. Ben and Adam recently they covered the TOS episode, that's The Original Series of Star Trek, The Devil in the Dark- Mm-hmm

which is about a giant shaggy goo creature that, uh, attacks and dissolves miners. Not-

Nichole: Not...

Daniel: Not children.

in this kind of mining facility. And You were listening to Greatest Trek over my shoulder one morning.

Nichole: Uh-huh.

Daniel: And Ben and A- Over my shoulder.

Mm-hmm.

Nichole: I just hover.

Laurel: Oh, what's that? Hmm. What's that you're listening to?

Daniel: And Ben and Adam were talking about the Horta, and they were comparing it to Sunday sauce, the, uh, a classic Italian pasta and, like, pork ragu kind of dish.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Yeah. And you said

Nichole: Mm.

Daniel: Wow. Wow.

Nichole: Why did I have to start with, I am, I am funnier than that? Oh- It's not, it's not a funnier joke to think that the Horta looks like eggplant Parmesan. It's just more accurate.

Daniel: Well, this, this is an autistic person's idea of funny.

Nichole: Accuracy is funny.

Daniel: What you said is, "I am better joke teller." I

Nichole: am better joke teller.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Because,

Daniel: because I leave out articles in sentence.

Nichole: This is, this is drugged up Nicole.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah, that was... The, the left out articles was the Xanax. Everything else, 100% Nicole.

Daniel: Yes. Yeah.

Nichole: I stand by it.

Laurel: When I think eggplant Parm, that's much more evocative of Horta to me than sundae sauce.

Nichole: So you think of eggplant Parmesan and then think Horta?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: That's correct- Yeah ... I guess.

Laurel: Yep, I'm sitting down to dinner.

Nichole: Mm,

Laurel: my Horta

Nichole: tonight.

Laurel: And I'm like, "Mm, this poor misunderstood creature."

Daniel: Yeah, you have...

It's, it's much better, you know, it tastes so much better when you mind meld with it and it's like, Oh. Oh. Waves and waves of searing pain.

Laurel: I could never eat eggplant parm again. I'm, I'm not a vegetarian, but I ... But in solidarity I won't eat eggplant parm.

Daniel: Interesting that your other hot take also had to do with food.

Nichole: I don't know why I decided they were at Disneyland- ... when Dolly Parton has her own land- Yeah ...

Laurel: with like- Her own land ...

Nichole: roller coasters and shit Where

Laurel: she can, she can get anything for free there.

Yeah. Why would they go to Disney? I don't know.

Daniel: Does she have, like, her own Mickey Mouse, but it's like he's got a banjo?

Nichole: Probably. I don't know. Huge-

Laurel: I know that they're- ... bazongas.

Nichole: Definitely. Definitely.

Daniel: Once it's out of the public domain, bazongas on Mickey Mouse.

Laurel: Yeah, that will be- Yeah ... an immediate thing.

Nichole: Yeah, it's a different kind of Steamboat Willie.

Anyways, do you not agree with my Cot take?

Laurel: No, I think this is like the, the well of the deepest wisdom of the universe- Mm-hmm ... is Nicole's Cot takes.

Nichole: this is just part of a long history of me talking about women I revere when I'm high on drugs pre or post-surgery.

Daniel: So they do come to you like, kind of like a religious vision.

Nichole: They do. Mm. It's like I can't handle-

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah ...

Nichole: their beauty and their grace.

Laurel: Speaking of grace, let's visit the least graceful parts of the internet.

Daniel: You mean the least graceful place on earth?

Laurel: Yeah. We don't need no grace where we're going 'cause we're going to Reddit. Oh,

Daniel: what are we gonna do when we get there?

Nichole: we're gonna ask a little question.

Daniel: What's the question?

Nichole: Oh my God. Monogamy, are you okay?

And

Daniel: Monogamy, Are You Okay? is the segment where we look at examples of toxic monogamy on the interwebs and pose the question...

Nichole: Monogamy, are you okay?

Daniel: The answer is often no in these dark, fetid corners of the internet, but hey, your monogamy's probably okay.

Laurel: It's probably fine.

Nichole: this is on the monogamy subreddit.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. so to be clear , this is the subreddit where monogamy enthusiasts gather to- ... compare notes.

Nichole: I would say monogamy enthusiasts/polyamory haters. Detesters.

Laurel: Yeah. I think that this sub is actually just dedicated to people who want to talk about polyamory negatively.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: That- Yes ... that's all they talk about. They do not talk about-

Nichole: They don't talk about monogamy ... monogamy.

Okay. The subject line is, "Why do people act like polygamy is rebellious when it's really just an extension of consumerist culture? Objectifying people down to their sexual utility ain't cool."

Laurel: Which once again- Wow ... off the bat, I'm sure this person doesn't know the difference between polygamy, polyamory, polygyny, But also, if they actually meant polygamy, they don't understand- Yes ... what polygamy is.

Nichole: Yes. And it takes, let's see, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 comments to get, " I feel like you mean polyamory-

or ethical non-monogamy, not polygamy."

Daniel: I don't think the people who are, like, into relationship theory are haunting the monogamy subreddit. I'm impressed that somebody ever came around to say something.

Nichole: so one, that's a wild statement to say. polyamory is an extension of consumerist culture-

Laurel: This is, like, a shower thought someone had.

Nichole: 1,000%.

Laurel: A- and they were like, " Oh my God."

Nichole: Yeah. "

Laurel: Whoa." and then went and put it on the monogamy subreddit.

Nichole: So-

Daniel: I think it's generous of you to assume that this person showers.

Nichole: Whoa.

Laurel: Shots fired.

Nichole: the top comment basically it's like a group of people who see something, wrong with society and tries to build a commune.

They might have great intentions, but a majority of the time it ends up messing people up even more. So the mentality of being a victim of oppression and a rebel is very baked into the poly community. They tend to build their ideology and literature from that perspective.

Laurel: Wait, because I built a commune and then I hurt people, and then that makes me a victim of my commune?

Nichole: Uh,

Poly at large fits into hyper-consumerist, individualist, libertarian, objectifying egoism, et cetera. Poly practitioners in general struggle to appreciate what they have. At the very least, the lifestyle and community encourages and enables a mindset that you never have enough, that people are objects to fill specific roles.

Daniel: Wow.

Nichole: Okay. But okay.

that was not the most wild comment, by the way. the second-highest up-voted comment is, "This is how CIA sells it to us since sexual revolution, and it works."

OP, tell me more. I love

Laurel: this comment.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: The OP- leans in and is like, " Tell me more."

Nichole: Yep. And then people who are not even the person that said that swoop in and are like, "Not the person you spoke to, but I feel I have insights." The people who rule over us are constantly trying to affect our numbers.

Daniel: The people who rule over us.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: I mean, I don't mean to brag, but I think that they're talking about me. I think that they're talking about- I think they're... Yes ... I think they're talking about the Jews. Yes. And, like, our secret plot to, like, replace everybody with immigrants, it's going along, like, great.

I'm, like, so stoked. I have a couple of immigrants actually lined up that are gonna replace you two.

Laurel: There's not even, like, a cohesive theory 'cause it just says, " In the past, they may have tried to increase or decrease the human population to suit their needs, sometimes needing an abundant labor force."

Nichole: Who is they?

Laurel: The Jews.

Nichole: Oh.

Daniel: This is why when anybody starts talking about a conspiracy theory, I set a egg timer on 30 seconds before they get to-

Nichole: Oh, 1000% ... the Jews. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So basically, this person who jumps into this conversation is saying the one thing they fear most, is an abundant population that peacefully gets along with itself and its neighbors.

So they push consumerism, internecine conflict, and sexual practices that would reduce sex from an act that creates new life to one that is simply commodified, including hookup culture, free access to pornography, dot, dot, dot, and yes, non-monogamy.

Laurel: It's just so half-baked.

Like, it doesn't make any sense. they don't want us to get along. this is all part of their agenda, is to sow division, but they're gonna sow division by having us happy and oversexed.

Nichole: Yeah, uh, this is what I don't- And this is, this is- Like ... where,

Laurel: for all the, like, crazy bullshit that is on polyamory subreddits-

they don't sit and complain about monogamy.

Daniel: No.

Nichole: No.

Laurel: No one has ever, like, " what about those monogamous schmucks over there?

Can you believe all this stupid bullshit?"

Daniel: to get that, you have to tune in to Polyamateur Hour.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. But the monogamy subreddit is almost solely and exclusively dedicated to talking shit-

and the people are fucking nutso. They're nutso conspiracy theorists, and it's like- Yeah

and this is it. This is your counterargument-

Nichole: I feel like- ... to

Laurel: non-monogamy.

Nichole: I feel like maybe this is the moment that it tips over for polyamory. That we are now included in the larger conspiratorial, like- Ah ... world- new world order.

Daniel: We're no longer counterculture. Yeah. We are- We are the dominant paradigm.

Nichole: Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is coming for your children.

Laurel: Yeah, obviously. Also, buy more.

Nichole: Also buy more.

Laurel: Like, how... It doesn't...

Nichole: This really, like, I love how much Laurel is just, like-

Laurel: I just like, my brain wants so badly to make sense of it.

Laurel: the problem is, values that come along with polyamory specifically, they're in contradiction to, American capitalist class.

Nichole: Yes. Yeah.

Laurel: I could see making the argument when people are conflating polyamory, any kind of ethical non-monogamy, polygamy, and polygyny.

Like, a lot of people are like, like, it's regressive for women.

Nichole: Hmm. Right.

Laurel: And what they mean is polygyny-

Nichole: Yes ...

Laurel: is regressive for women,

Daniel: And this argument that she's making specifically comes from the religious right.

if you- we- we dial back our brains to the day when the pope made his grand proclamation against polyamory-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Daniel: like, he was lumping it together with basically, like, dating culture. Like- Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm ... the, the social media, the apps, the dehumanization of people in these spaces. But that is not really central to polyamory.

That is central to the dating industrial complex.

Laurel: Yes. Which- Which is a Christian thing. Like, most of those apps are owned by Christian companies.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Most dating shows-

Laurel: Are Christian productions ... are super

Nichole: Christian. Yeah.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: so the them that is running everything. It was Jesus all along. But he's a Jew.

Nichole: No.

Laurel: All right. Well, that was fun.

Nichole: W- was it?

Daniel: Any time that I can be both the victim and the perpetrator of a conspiracy, I feel pretty good about myself at the end of the day.

Laurel: Who said you couldn't have it all? You know who else can have it all?

Daniel: Well, only somebody who can balance many things.

Juggle many things.

Laurel: While telling jokes.

Daniel: While being the most charming, tiny human in public life, while I'm a close second.

Laurel: While being a CIA operative for the poly agenda.

Daniel: Why, it's Leah Orleans.

Laurel: Wow.

Daniel (2): creator of Tiny Girl, Big Show. Legendary circus arts performer, comedian-

and just kind of like superhero

Nichole: I'm excited to welcome her to the pod basement. It does feel weird every time we have somebody over to record- ... to, like, lead them down to the basement.

Laurel: Come on down.

Daniel: Also, the light is out in the stairway, so it's a little bit murdery- Yeah

every time. Ooh. Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: But, I think that Leah can definitely fend for herself. she might be bringing her bow and arrow.

Only one way to find out.

Nichole: Let's go get her.

Your hair is amazing.

Leah: Thank you. It's having a good day.

Nichole: Aw.

Leah: It's not always a good day. But today- I- ... is, is a good day.

Nichole: I have curly hair.

Leah: Yes.

Nichole: And I do not- Do you straighten it? ... let it do that. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Leah: Yeah.

Nichole: So I understand how

Leah: it is. Have you heard of the Curly Girl method?

Nichole: I have.

What is this like- It did not work for me ...

Leah: it's the way to go. Oh. What

Nichole: is it? Is it?

Leah: I think so.

Nichole: Okay. Yeah.

Laurel: just reminded me of another fucking thing I saw on Reddit. I've got a Reddit problem today- Well- ... specifically ...

another one of my favorite subreddits, r/Bald.

I fucking love it because it is a feel-good sub.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: It is feel-good. Yeah. And it's just about, like, men whose hair is thinning.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Laurel: Yes. Yes. And they take the leap to finally just go bald and, like, shave it off. Yeah. So they'll always do, like, before and after pictures, and people are so supportive.

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: Are just like, "You look so good, man. You look 20 years younger." Like, " Wanna, wanna date? You're a hot guy." I love that. It's like- That's

Nichole: beautiful ...

Laurel: so wholesome.

Nichole: That might be the last vestige of the internet that is wholesome. Mm-hmm.

Laurel: There are, there are few out there. That is one of them. '

Daniel: Cause it's moderated by Patrick Stewart.

Nichole: Amazing.

Laurel: wow, what a revelation that would be.

Daniel: Are you a Star Trek enthusiast at all?

Leah: I have an ex who was a Star Trek nerd. Mm. We had a cat named Worf together. Oh. Oh. He really took me through. No. So he supported me through that journey. Okay. In which I was, like , TNG- Mm-hmm

and a little bit of Deep Space Nine, and then we got into Lower Decks when that started to come out. Mm-hmm. And that was great. And then some of Picard, and then we broke up. Ooh. So-

Laurel: Was it because of Picard?

Leah: It was absolutely not because of Picard. I will tell you that right now. Picard, Picard was the only thing- Picard might have been the healthiest part of our relationship.

Only thing

Daniel: keeping you together.

Leah: Yep, yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. OG. OG. But, uh, it's all right.

Laurel: Are you trying to put Star Trek behind you now? Are you like...

Leah: I don't know. I have a lot of appreciation for it. I don't... This is, and this is, like, its own of, Leah lore, but, like, I don't watch stuff.

Okay. I don't watch TV. Oh. I don't have a Netflix account. Oh. I don't really pay attention. Yeah. I'm not really into fandoms. I never grew up with, like, a superhero thing. And for someone that works at a Renaissance fair- Yeah. Oh ... it's, like, kind of incredible how much I don't know.

Nichole: Huh.

Leah: I haven't watched stuff as a kid growing up.

It was never really part of, my family culture to, like, have a TV on.

Nichole: Yeah.

Leah: Yeah. I get really antsy when I watch TV too.

Yeah. Yes. Like, if someone's like, "Let's put something on," I get, like, really bored really fast. Yeah. Unless it's, horror- Mm ... or a documentary about, like, some extreme sports dude- ... that, like, might die at the end of it. I can watch those.

Daniel: My sister makes, uh, documentaries about extreme sports dudes. Yeah,

Leah: that's true.

Actually. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, like, that's the, that's the tiny genre that I can follow. So yeah, he'd, like, be really into Star Trek, and I'd, I liked it, I need someone holding my hand- Yeah. Yeah ... the entire time when I watch.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: So you don't wander off.

I feel like you've got your own cinematic universe.

Right. And it takes Enough energy to just keep that going, right?

Leah: Absolutely. I'm, I'm also just, like, a busy bitch, and I got shit to do. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't have a lot of time to be bored. I have to be, like, sick- Yeah ... to be, like, in bed and be like, "Okay, fine, I'll, like, watch a thing." but I also love, what I call, like, my own little video games, which is essentially, the businesses that I build.

Mm-hmm. And, like, sitting on my computer playing my video games. Mm. Uh-huh. Which is that, creating ads and, like, launching those ads- Yeah ... and taking bets and answering emails. Like, it feels like video game to me. Like, I get the same kind of, da-ding-ding. Taking

Nichole: bets?

Leah: Yeah. So, as a self-employed entertainer-

taking a bet on myself is, renting a $4,000 theater for a night. Like, four-walling a theater. Oh. Oh. And saying like- Okay ... "Okay, I'm taking a bet that I'm gonna be able to fill it, and I'm gonna be able to, poster it, and I have enough, like..." Like, look at my MailChimp. Okay, I have 300 fans in the Portland area. Cool. That means I can probably rent out a 200-seat theater and maybe sell it. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. Like, if I send an email to those 300 fans- Yeah

like, what does that look like? Okay, I'm gonna take this bet. Like, and that, is how I run my business- How's that? ... and how I think of my, my career. like playing Rollercoaster Tycoon, right? Like, it's the same... I get the same, like, tingles of, excitement- Yeah ... that one might get from a video game, but it's my own life.

Daniel: Ah. And, and, and what you've built is really inspiring. Yeah. Yeah. Like, completely- Yeah, yeah. completely independent. Mm-hmm. Like, it is- Yep ... you know, an organic human-based, Yes ... performance.

Leah: Yes.

Daniel: And being out poly- Uh-huh ... being out queer-

Leah: Yeah ...

Daniel: like, I am a little bit in awe of- Mm ... of what you've been put together.

Leah: Thank you.

Daniel: I think that we've already started, just by virtue of talking about this and how you've gotten here-

Leah: Yeah ...

Daniel: um, our first segment.

Leah: Yeah.

Daniel: But I'm just going to say here comes the theme song.

This is A Practical Poly.

Da, da, da, da, da, da. Da,

Nichole: da, da, da, da, da. Da, da, da. Da, da.

Laurel: And, uh,

Leah: yeah.

Daniel: So what was your journey into the circus arts?

Leah: Sure. Yeah. So, if you haven't read the description of this podcast, my name is Leah Orleans. I'm a professional circus performer, acrobat, comedian, entertainer, and live event producer.

I do a circus show called Tiny Girl, Big Show that I perform at Renaissance festivals, theaters, and cruise ships all over the country, and I do over 300 shows a year. Yeah. I love what I do, and it's nuts. so I started as a youth circus kid.

Hmm. Right? Like, I went to circus camp. Yeah. My parents are entertainers as well- Yeah ... professionally. Hmm. So I was raised with a lot of a possibility model- Yeah. Yeah ... seeing other adults doing this professionally, spending a lot of time on the marketing side of it and the ticket sale side of it or the negotiations and the contracts and all the other things you have to do.

So it was pretty clear to me at a young age that you could be a professional entertainer- Mm-hmm ... which is kind of, like, nuts already. Yeah. That's, like, a barrier for entry that a lot of people don't kinda hit-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Leah: , maybe ever. If not- Yeah ... they have to try to convince their parents that that's a thing.

So I definitely had that kind of, uh, circus nepo baby thing- ... going on, you know? If we're gonna be honest about it, I had, like, aggressively supportive parents- Yeah ... who were like, "Yeah, go to circus school." Yeah. Like, I think if I went to them and was like, "I wanna be a doctor," they'd be like- Yeah ... "Uh." Oh,

Nichole: the Biggest fight I ever got in with my father-

Leah: Yeah

Nichole: is when I said I wanted to be a communications major instead of a theater major.

Leah: Amazing.

Nichole: It was... he was not a performer. He was- Yeah. He was, like, a secret writer.

Leah: Cool.

Nichole: Yeah. You know? , But I was supposed to live out his dream- Mm. Hmm ... amazing ... of being an artist. Yeah. And instead, now I'm a senior director of resource management.

Whoa. Yeah. So- Very

Leah: disappointing.

Daniel: You're like- Very disappointing ... you're like, "Communications-" He

Leah: is disappointed in me.

Daniel: You're like, "Dad, communications is just another form of clowning."

Leah: It-

Daniel: Ah. Amazing.

Laurel: Ah, ah. That's

Leah: hilarious. Ah. That's true, though. so I went to circus school for a few years, a few different circus schools across- Hmm

the world, I went to the Clown Conservatory in San Francisco- Okay, uh-huh ... for a year, and that was, , four semesters of clown classes, and that ranged in different subjects.

So we were doing commedia dell'arte and bouffon, which are kind of two other different styles of clowning. You can Google them for more- Mm-hmm ... information. Yeah. and then we had, like, a, kind of a basic clown, clown one, clown two, act development, character development. , It's a lot of playing games, playing- Yeah

theater games with your body- Hmm ... and getting really comfortable at committing fully to whatever you're doing-

Laurel: Mm. ...

Leah: and having a teacher yell at you and say that they don't believe you.

Nichole: Hmm.

Leah: Ooh. And a lot of that breaks down your fucking soul, and you go home and you cry every night. Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: See,

Nichole: Dad, I made the right decision.

Leah: Amazing.

Nichole: Amazing. Yeah,

Leah: no, it was like torturous. It was emotionally

Laurel: torturous-

Leah: Yeah ... for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was hard.

Daniel: Have you ever seen any old movies about the circus? They're all tragic.

Leah: Right. No, it was definitely hard. And then I went to circus school in Canada, and that was an offshoot of the Cirque du Soleil programs essentially.

Okay.

Nichole: Yeah, which

Leah: one is that? Ecole Nationale de Cirque in Montreal. So it's right across the street from their headquarters- Yeah ... and it's this, like, ginormous facility. , Like seven floors, like five different gyms, classrooms, a circus library that's amazing. , And that's where I learned how to train.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's where I learned discipline. That's where I learned- Mm ... consistency. Yeah. That's where I learned physicality, precision, , contortion, hand balancing. Mm-hmm. I did partner acrobatics for a long time as well.

Laurel: Nice. ,

Leah: So I began touring full time with my ex. , We did a two-person comedy acrobatic show. Hmm. We toured that show for nine years, and that's really where I learned how to kinda put the wheels on the wagon that I- Yeah

wanted to ride on. Yeah. , And we had a really great show and a pretty strong partnership. It didn't work out for a lot of reasons, one of which being he was pretty monogamous and- Mm ... and- Oh ... you know, straight. Um- Yeah ... and I was growing up and realizing that I was neither of those things- Right, yeah. ... uh, pretty aggressively in real time, you know?

-

Daniel: Did he realize he was in the circus? Jesus Christ.

Leah: Oh, no, he's- Yeah, no, it's not his fault. But, uh, it... Uh, right. That is kind of an anomaly in, in that world- Yeah ... to have someone who's, like, monogamous, straight, and like, you know, pretty clean cut. Yeah. And, uh, it's not, that's not so typical.

Daniel: So how perfect circle is the Venn diagram, or as we say on this podcast- Sure

the Zen diagram.

Leah: Uh-huh.

Daniel: , How perfect is this circle of, like, non-monogamy, polyamory, and circus arts? Right. Right, right. Are they synonymous?

Leah: Circus arts in general, I'm not so sure. Renaissance fairs though- Hmm. Hmm. Eh, When I was beginning my poly journey and reading the literature- Uh-huh ... as you do- Right.

I was reading, um, The Ethical Slut, and in The Ethical Slut, Dossie so well states something along the lines of, like, " It might be difficult for you to find a - place of work that accepts your polyamory- ... but do not, do not fear. There are places all around the country where polyamorous cultures thrive, like renaissance fairs."

And I was like- I shit you not, I was listening to this at a Renais- like head- my headphones were in at a Renaissance fair, like getting ready for the day. Oh. Like putting my makeup on at festival. Oh my God. Being like, "Huh." "All right. Maybe I'm, maybe I'll just stay here for a bit." Um-

Daniel: She's like, "They're right behind you."

Leah: Right, right, right, right, right. Right, right, right. So Ren Fair community is, is very poly. Um, I think some of that's logistical, I think some of it's cultural. Ren Fairs is kind of traveling circus energy. Yeah. We travel a lot. So the poly concept of being able to have partners in, in different zip codes and, and- Yes

see and say and have common partners and people that you'll kind of swing by and leave is very, very helpful.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Leah: and convenient- Yeah ... per se. , There are definitely, like, Ren Fair polycules that have, you know, formed and dissolved- Ooh ... and throughout- Yeah. Yeah ... the circuit, and I've gotten wrapped into or wrapped out of or seen from a distance and been like, "Well, that looks toxic."

Daniel: But I've heard, I've heard with those that each member of the polycule has to align with a different character from Commedia dell'arte.

Leah: Yes, and then they have to joust each other.

Daniel: Yeah.

Leah: For dominance. Yeah. Um, and whoever wins gets to be the anchor partner.

Daniel: That's how it goes. And it's not always with lances.

Leah: But no... Well, you know, we all have our own kinda lance. Um, yeah, so it is definitely very welcoming, you know, compared to a lot of the other venues that I work, it's not as common. Mm-hmm. But I, yeah, I assume you feel this as well. Like, it's like the yellow car thing. Once you know what it is, you see it pop up everywhere.

Laurel: Yeah.

Leah: Yeah, yeah. You know? And you see a lot of people being like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, like I'm also ethically monogamous, or my, my husband has a girlfriend," or like- Mm-hmm, yeah ... there's like a thing, you know? I think at Ren Fairs it's like culture. Yeah. Everyone's really out about it. Yeah. It's not, you don't like walk through a Ren Fair place being like, "I'm poly, but nobody knows."

Like it's not- Right. There's no taboo. Yeah. Even with my like bosses, you know? Like my administrators, my entertainment directors, they know that I have multiple partners. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause they hire those partners, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. To do jobs, and they see us kiss each other sometimes, you know? Yeah. So yeah, I think that there is kind of a, an understanding.

I'd say 90% of my social circles are either queer, poly, or both. Like, it's pretty- Yeah ... it's pretty tight. Yeah. Yeah. Just because of the people I hang out with-

Nichole: Yeah ...

Leah: I

Nichole: guess. Yeah.

Leah: I do admittedly bubble myself a bit. Yeah. I think my audiences are different. You know, I see, I- Mm-hmm ... see a lot of families. When I work on cruise ships it's, like, Trump voting, vanilla, like, MAGA hat wearing land too.

Like, that's- I'm sure ... the place where I have to, like, cosplay the most as, like, a straight person. That's why I

Nichole: don't wanna go on cruises. I

Leah: mean, it depends on what cruise you go to. Yeah. If you're on, like, Virgin or something you'll be fine.

Nichole: Oh.

Leah: But if you're, like, taking a Princess ship to the Caribbean, like, you're gonna expect the people that wanted a vacation in a box because- Yeah

you know.

Daniel: You're gonna be part of a lot of their, like, , queer awakenings, right? You can just-

Leah: I guess. Yeah. You can just- I don't really- Make eye contact with the kids. Right. I know. I know. I'm rumored. Um, it's all about where, in my opinion. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Alaska is my top. Yeah. I think it's the best way to see that incredible state.

Laurel: Oh

my

Leah: gosh. 'Cause you're... You wake up, and it's just like, boom, glaciers either side- Yes ... of the boat. Like, mountains higher than you could possibly see, views that you cannot access by car or plane. Yeah. Yeah. Like, just unreal scale, size, and color, and- Yeah

it's just awesome .

Laurel: I like that we're getting travel tips.

Leah: Mm-hmm. I

Laurel: appreciate

Leah: it. You're gonna get travel tips. This is the

Nichole: practical

Laurel: part of Practical Poly. This is... Yeah. Do you ever get tired of traveling?

Hmm. Or are you just, like, so on the go that it's just like, "This is my life, and I love it"?

Leah: Huh. I don't know. Stumper. Right. Yeah. Look at that. No, that's an interes- Look at that ... that's a good question. I think there's a more specific version of a few different answers. I will get homesick.

Laurel: Yeah.

Leah: Mm-hmm. Like, I'll miss my house. Yeah. So I have, like, a, a home in Florida that I, my nesting partner and I have together, and we...

You know, it's his house formally, technically- Mm-hmm ... and I get to pay rent in it, and it's beautiful, and I love it, and we've kind of built it together- Mm-hmm ... over the past four years. And, um, we are very, very rarely home at the same time.

Laurel: Yeah. '

Leah: Cause he does a similar thing that I do. Yeah. And we kind of circle each other, I love that house. Yeah. It makes me feel all of the domestic things that I- Mm ... that I feel like are, you know, ingrained in me from a survival standpoint- Yeah ... to, to exist. , So I miss that. But more than two months there and I'm gonna get real itchy- Yeah. Yeah ... to leave.

Mm-hmm. Real itchy. I think my itch to be on the road is stronger than my itch to be at home. Mm. , But also it's very good to know that my t- travel and tour schedule is, like, usually four to six weeks in one place at one time.

Laurel: Mm.

Leah: Yep. I'm not, like, rock star touring. Okay. Yeah. I'm not like, bam, bam, city and bus and city and bus.

No, fuck that, dude. I couldn't... I could do that for, like, maybe a week.

but most of the time I get to actually unpack- And I actually get to enjoy the town or the place or the city that I'm in.

Laurel: Yeah.

Leah: And then I kind of pack it all in my van and move again.

Laurel: Yeah.

Leah: So it's, it's a slower system of touring than a lot of, like, other comedians or rock stars. Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Which is why I've been able to do it for almost 15 years now.

Yeah. Yeah. And feel like, you know, every year I can kinda learn a little more. Okay, I pack my car this way. Okay, we do that. Ooh, let's stay in the same Airbnb that we were in last time. Yeah. Cool. Oh, no, we're gonna avoid that hotel. Like...

Daniel: And all these things are centered- You know? ... around seasonal events.

Laurel: Right.

Daniel: So you build a c- So they're

Laurel: repetitive.

Daniel: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And then you build a community in that place. Yes. You get people who come and see you- Exactly ... probably every year

Leah: when you come back. Exactly. I watch children grow up.

Laurel: It's amazing.

Daniel: That's great.

Leah: You know? Yeah. I've, I've been working at the New York Renaissance Festival specifically for 14 years.

Mm. And I have watched kids grow up. Wow.

Daniel: I remember seeing, , the incredibly cute, , online, , video of Online video. I'm so old.

Leah: Yeah,

Daniel: yeah. I'm so

Leah: old. The

Daniel: VHS

Leah: tape

Daniel: era. There was, like, the tinier girl-

Leah: Yeah ...

Daniel: Big Show. Yeah, yeah. The one who was just dressed exactly like

Leah: you.

Yeah. Yeah, it happens. Yeah. And it's great. It happens. It, it happens. It does a few times a year. It's wonderful. Oh.

Daniel: Oh, there's more than one of them.

Leah: Oh my gosh, yeah. Oh. Parents get really into it. But also, you know, not to be, like, strategic and weird, but, like, the costume is designed to be very easily identified- Yeah ... and therefore easily repeatable- Repeatable, yeah ... or replicated, right. Ah. Yeah,

Laurel: yeah, yeah.

Leah: Two big sunflowers.

Laurel: Yep.

Leah: Yeah. Black shorts, high socks, star on the butt. You did it. Mm. That's the costume. Yeah. Right?

Laurel: Yeah.

Leah: Beautiful. Pretty simple. Like, moms will dress up their kids to do it. I get it from adults. yeah, it's really fun, and oh my God, it makes me feel like a superhero. It's so cool.

Nichole: It's great.

So I guess I do wanna ask about- Yeah ... being open about polyamory in your- Yeah ... I guess, content. Um- Yeah, it's new. Yeah. Yeah. So tell us about, a little bit about that. I've

Leah: done very little, to be honest. A lot of it's kind of inferred. , So I've been out as bisexual/pansexual since I was, like, 13. Mm-hmm. So that's never really been something I've questioned. , But- the two-person show that I did for nine years was with a man, and it, we were, you know, it was all about romance and us and our relationship. Mm-hmm. And we established this fan base, and then I left and I went solo, and I started to kind of write in jokes about being bisexual into the show- Mm-hmm ... because I also had a lot of fans who were like, "Where's the guy?" Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yeah.

Leah: So I had to, like, write a spinoff and be like, "Oh, we go through breakups. We all go through breakups.

He went one way and I go both ways." Mm. So that was the first joke. Like, that was the first joke that I put into the show. I say that every show. Yeah. I still say it every show. Yeah. And then I move on, and we go into other topics.

Yeah. Yeah. And the show isn't just about being gay, right? It's about other things. And then as I was developing, , my partner Chloe, who I've been working with professionally for, like, six years, And she's a fucking creative genius, So we started working together more, and then we started to be a little more honest about our relationship and how serious it, it was with each other and kind of committed to each other further. , And I've also been with- This man Aaron, who I mentioned before, Aaron Bonk, you can check out his stuff too online.

so him and I were in, in a very committed yet very poly relationship- Yeah ... since the beginning- so we didn't really publicize it, but anyone that knew us knew that we were very committed together- Mm-hmm ... and had a house together. , And then as I started to date Chloe more publicly, she also played music for me in my show, and our chemistry was, like, very undeniable.

Mm-hmm. And everyone was like, "Ah, y'all are fucking." You know, like, you can't, you can't watch our stuff and not feel it. , And we're very creatively charged too together. Yeah. So when we're working on stage together and making stuff together, you're, like, watching us fuck, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, there's, like, there's this kind of creative energy, so.

Daniel: I think I know exactly who you're talking about- For sure ... without you actually saying.

Leah: Yeah, absolutely. Oh. It's all Chloe. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Morning Night. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the whole thing. Yeah. , And then it wasn't till last year, I had a videographer come and shoot all of our shows, and before we started one of the shows, I was kind of doing crowd work and, like, answering some FAQs.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Leah: Yeah. And someone in the audience was like, "Are you single?" Hmm. And I, like, gave this, like, funny non-answer of being like, "Kinda, it's this open thing," but like, and I, like, crowd work humored it.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Leah: Yeah. But coming out as poly, essentially- Yeah. Yeah ... saying that it was open. And then that footage wound up in my editor's hands, and she was editing it, and she was like, "This is hilarious."

"You need to post this." Like, "This is really funny." And she made a really funny cut of it, and I was like, "

Nichole: Fuck, that is funny." I

Leah: was like, "All right. Let's see how it goes." Mm-hmm. And it got like a million views, and the internet- Yeah ... was like, "You're poly." So that's technically the only video that I've put out there- Mm-hmm

actually stating that. Yeah.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Leah: , But I guess I'm out about it now, you know- Mm-hmm ... on the internet.

I think the biggest thing that I was kind of like, "Eh," about is, like, the parasocial people that now think that they- Yeah

can be in a relationship with me. Yeah. Yeah. Correct. That was kind of what I was like, "I don't wanna- Yeah ... handle that." -

But to be honest, this is something that Chloe and I talk about a lot, too, is that a lot of our fans that hit on us are, like, really sweet, shy, sapphic, gay panic nerds- Mm-hmm.

Mm. ... who, like, don't mean any harm. Yeah. Yeah. And they're not, like, sending dick pic, right? Like, they're like- Yeah. Yeah ... these are people who will, like, uwu in the corner- Yeah ... and then cry when we talk to them. Yeah. Which is, like, the sweetest thing, and I just wanna, like, coddle their little baby gay brains and be like, "It's okay.

Mm-hmm. I am unavailable for you. And I hope that you have a lovely time dreaming about our relationship that we will never have. Have a great day."

Daniel: You know? Yeah, it's the Ren Faire, so it's usually a dick scroll, right?

Leah: Sure, sure, sure. Oh, God. A dick scroll. Oh, God. I don't... It's a dick- ... a dick carrier pigeon. Um, so yeah.

Like, d- you know, that's definitely an element of it. Um,

Daniel: You know, speaking of carrier pigeons.

Nichole: Oh, okay. You did it. He's gonna congratulate himself on his segue

Daniel: I am, I am not. I was gonna hold back,

Leah: Okay ...

Daniel: not in front of Dalia.

Leah: Are

Nichole: we

Leah: talking about aminals?

Daniel: Yes. Yes, we are. Yes,

Leah: we are.

Daniel: you have such a, warm, delightful, , animal energy.

Leah: Oh.

Daniel: Thanks. Oh. All

Leah: right. I've been referred to as feral before. It's fine. It's fine. Yeah. Maybe recently.

Daniel: This is, this is part of what felt like- Maybe this morning ... our brand alignment. I was like- Yeah, yeah ... yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Leah: yeah,

Daniel: yeah.

Leah: Shout out, shout out Ify Nwadiwe. Yeah. Being like, I know who to put on this. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yes, he does.

Daniel: I was like, who do you know who is, like, chaos Muppet in the streets?

Leah: Oh, for sure.

Daniel: Yeah.

Leah: Yeah, and what in the sheets? Yeah.

Daniel: Probably. Probably.

Leah: I am a third of his size, so that's all I need to say on it.

Daniel: He seems climbable. Um- So we thought we would, we would, we thought we would invite you on- Yeah ... for our segment called Animal Magnetism.

Leah: Uh-huh. Meow. Meow.

Daniel: Oh, Are we gonna do a round of animal noises?

Leah: I'm a cat. No.

Daniel: Oh, I was gonna just- I was gonna, like, I was gonna, like- Oh ... speed point to everybody, and I was, then I was gonna conduct- And everyone would do a- Ca-caw,

Laurel: ca-caw.

Leah: I'll do all of them. I appreciate it. Thank you. Moo.

Daniel: Animal Magnetism is the segment where we talk about instances of polyamory and non-monogamy in the animal kingdom.

Nichole: Surprisingly, a repeatable segment.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Leah: Sure.

Nichole (2): And our most wholesome,

I I think.,

Daniel: We're gonna start with- An article from CNN.

This article is titled Just How Monogamous Are Humans? Scientists break down how we compare to other animals.

Mm-hmm. Oh, okay.

Leah: Yeah.

Daniel: So this is the most recent- Where are they pulling

Leah: this data from? Like-

Daniel: I think- I

Leah: never filled out a monogamy census,

Laurel: right? This-

Daniel: I think that they are interviewing this set of meerkats right here.

Leah: Meerkats.

Laurel: They're just asking them for their opinions, like off the street.

Daniel: Yeah. "

Laurel: Hey you, come over here."

Daniel: Yeah.

What is it with meerkats and monogamy?

Laurel: What is it?

Daniel: Humans are far more monogamous than our primate cousins, but less so than beavers- ... a new study suggests.

Leah: Did they have to? They did. I guess they did have to. Oh, God. We're really looking for any opportunity to put

Daniel: in beaver jokes into this podcast.

Leah: Did you see it, there was a video floating around online that I watched the other day of a rabid beaver biting a child- ... and it was hilarious.

Nichole: Oh my God.

Leah: It was so funny. Like, they were like fucking with this beaver in the woods- ... and the beaver was like, "." And the kid was like, "Ah."

And then he had to go to the hospital.

Daniel: Was the beaver actually rabid?

Leah: Yeah, straight up rabid.

Daniel: Wow.

Leah: Wow. It

Daniel: was

Leah: It's worth your time. No, b- back to the meerkats,

please. Just don't let me interrupt.

Daniel: Uh, no, that's, this is the point of this segment- All right ... is to interrupt. Okay. Researchers from the University of Cambridge in England analyzed the proportion of full siblings versus half siblings across several animal species, as well as various human- Oh ... populations throughout history.

Leah: So it's based on breeding.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yes.

Leah: All right. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Which is a little- Yeah ... dubious.

Daniel: I- It's a little m- uh, heteronormative.

Leah: It's a little heteronormative.

Laurel: I also wanna say, with the advent of, like, at home genetic testing, the number of people have suddenly discovered half siblings in the world that they had no idea existed- Yeah

is going up.

Leah: Right.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: And so I think maybe our data's a little skewed.

Leah: Yep.

Daniel: The team of scientists used a computational model and sibling data produced by genetic studies of humans and other animals to arrive at the estimated monogamy ratings.

The researchers found that beavers had a monogamy rating of 72%, while humans clocked in at 66%.

Leah: Okay, question though, like how do they know that a beaver has ended a relationship and started another relationship?

Right? Like, are, are we talking about, like, life-bonded pair? Yeah. Because, like, most monogamous human beings will end a relationship and then start a re- another relationship and maybe have kids with both of their partners, but not be poly.

Yeah ... you know, do, do they know that the beaver is having multiple relationships at the s- Are they, like, looking at the Google calendars? Like, what-

Daniel: So, um apparently, according to this study, we are slightly higher than meerkat's score of 60%.

Leah: All right.

Daniel: All three species are what they call the premier league of monogamy. That's the most boring sport that I could possibly imagine. What is major league monogamy?

Leah: That's like people that like mate for life.

Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel: Like, like

Leah: animals and species that like they bond and pair each other.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah.

Leah: Okay. Well, I thought for them.

Daniel: At the other- At the other end of the scale, dolphins and- Right ... chimpanzees had a monogamy rating of just 4%, while mountain gorillas came in at 6%.

Leah: And dolphins are like the smartest- Yeah ... breed, right?

Daniel: All the smart animals except for- Uh-huh ... humans, which maybe undermines our status there.

Leah: Sure.

Daniel: Super non-monogamous.

Leah: But I really also think that the human data is like- Yes ... fucked because if you're looking at, what is a poly human, is it someone who's cheating on their partner?

Well, no, not in our personal- Right, right. But if, if you were like a anthropologist alien coming in to observe earth people and you watch a monogamous husband go to a strip club after work without telling his wife and tip a stripper, you'd be like, "Well, he- that's not, that's not monogamous," right?

Daniel: Yeah.

Leah: Yeah. Like, "That's not monogamous." This is me as an alien observing- ... observing the human species- Yeah ... going, "Everybody's fucking everybody."

Daniel: It's not cheating if it's with a robot.

Leah: Su- okay.

Daniel: Yeah.

Leah: That's a different podcast.

Daniel: so, uh, we rank seventh out of the 11 species as far as monogamy. And so that means that really- Yeah ... in, in all things, like, we are not that monogamous. Yeah. And

Leah: these are mam- That sounds- These are specifically mammals?

Great.

Daniel: I believe so, yes.

Leah: So... I wanna watch somebody lecture on this, you know? Me too. Like, I wanna... And then, like, sit around for the Q&A.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: I wanna watch them do a lecture where they bring the animals in like it's an old episode of The Tonight Show or if it's the guy with all the- Uh-huh ... fucking zoo animals. Oh,

Leah: yeah. Sounds great. And the dolphin's like, "Why am I out of water?

Daniel: Fuck you." "Where are my seven partners?"

Leah: They're all in the stands clapping.

"You're doing great, sweetie." Nope, nope. "You're gonna die now. Ah." Sorry.

Daniel: So there is also an article in The Guardian that is basically a reply to this study that's, like, pro polyamory, and is like, "This is, like, why humans are, like, now getting more and more non-monogamous and why polyamory is on the rise, is 'cause we're just adjusting to the- Yeah ... natural- It's

Leah: evolution ...

Daniel: status quo of, like, our other cousins in the fucking animal kingdom."

Leah: I- Mm. That makes sense. Yeah. I also think that there's shame-based culture that's, like, dissolving really quickly. I think that the Internet's It's giving us a space to reveal more about ourselves within a bubble of safety.

Daniel: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Leah: You know? The algorithm shows me polyamorous things 'cause it knows I'm polyamorous.

Yes. It shows me memes that make that funny, and then I send those memes to my partners, and then I send those memes to people that I kinda wanna fuck, and then they're like- ... "Oh, I guess you're poly." Like, that's the way that I tell people I'm poly now is by, like, sending them a meme about it, right? That's, that's the way

Daniel: you tell somebody that they're your partner.

Leah: Sure. Oh, too late. It's not the tongue in the mouth that lets them know. It's the meme that I sent. S-s-s- Um, yeah.

Daniel: So my favorite headline today is, "New Zealand Bird of the Year: Adult Toy Store Endorses Polyamorous

Leah: Hehe."

A hehe? What are its pronouns? Hehe, hehe. Hehe.

Daniel: I, I love a giggly pronoun set. Ooh.

Leah: A giggle. Hehe.

Daniel: Hehe. Small, small bird with unusually large testes- Hey ... receives a boost as competition is also rocked by vote-rigging row.

Leah: What?

Daniel: So the annual competition, which began 15 years ago to draw attention to native birds, many of which are endangered, has grown into a national obsession. Different types of birds have their own campaign managers, and the competition is so fierce that this year has seen record early voting with 40,000 ballots cast so far and five - days still remaining.

Leah: Damn. There's, like, not that many people in New Zealand. That's a crazy number.

Daniel: Yeah, that's all they do is birds.

Leah: New Zealand is small.

Daniel: Yeah. Birds and sheep. Birds, yeah. That's birds and

Leah: sheep. Yeah,

Laurel: how do they keep it to just New Zealand voting?

Daniel: I mean, I don't know that there's that many people outside of New Zealand that care that much about the New Zealand bird of the year Oh,

Laurel: there's gonna be now.

They

Leah: will now.

Daniel: Y- oh. '

Leah: Cause of this podcast.

Daniel: Or massive polling. Ah, shit. The polycule in

Leah: Oregon raid the entire country of New Zealand. I mean, you know what? I wouldn't ... I don't think that's that hard to do- ... with the way, the way that Portland will, like, rally against something. Yeah. I don't think

Daniel: it would be- C- can we do, like, a

Can we do a write-in for bird of the year? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ooh. Where it's like- Yeah ...

Nichole: like-

Laurel: The threegle.

Daniel: The threegle. Oh.

Laurel: Threegle. Which is not even from New Zealand,

Leah: but-

Laurel: Is that- Doesn't

Leah: matter ... polycule eagle? Yeah, it is. Yes. Okay. Okay.

Daniel: So yeah- ... our first animal magnetism was about a threegle. Oh. since then we have determined that our specific three-person corner of our polycule is the threegle.

Leah: Right. Yeah. So this is a, this is a self-identifying sort of situation. Yes.

Daniel: Yes. Okay,

Leah: great. Very happy for you.

Are you bald eagles or what's going-

Daniel: I don't know, ask our- My hair over- ... bald

Leah: You're all ... Yeah, right, you're all, you all have hair, therefore- ... you're furry eagles.

Daniel: So the poll success has attracted commercial interests such as the endorsement this week by adult toy mega store of the hihi, a polyamorous sexually fluid bird with big testicles.

Leah: Mm.

Daniel: So the hihi, or stitchbird, is the only bird in the world-

to mate face to face. So they're also- ... like super intimate.

Leah: Wow. How do they do it? Oh, I want to watch video of that.

Daniel: Yeah. Beak to beak.

Leah: How do they... It, does one lie down?

Daniel: Not the turkey? Have you seen turkeys- ... face each other and...

Nichole: They, they- They mount each other?

They, um,

Daniel: For listeners at home, Nicole is doing a mating turkey impression.

Nichole: Okay. Okay. So they do a floofy floof. There's

Leah: elbows involved.

Nichole: Yeah. And, and- Claws ... then they, they- And scooping, I think ... or they, they like-

Leah: Lift.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah. They like go up into the air and it's like- Bam

bukkake.

Leah: Oh. They just, they just- There's acrobatic. Jump and

Nichole: smash? Uh-huh.

Daniel: Jump and

Leah: smash. Jump smash.

Nichole: Yeah, and I- The classic jump and smash ... I had a

Leah: jump smash once.

Nichole: But-

Leah: Broke my

Nichole: tailbone. I feel like that's probably a circus move. See, that's

Daniel: what I'm saying. Is there a-

Leah: I, we don't need to talk about- ... the fact that my three herniated discs have something to do with molly and bondage.

It's fine.

Don't do bondage on molly, fam. Don't do it. Oh, my God. Don't do it. Don't do it. Bondage, no molly- ... or molly, no bondage. Don't tie yourself up and think that everything feels good.

Laurel: You heard it here first,

Leah: folks. Does not all feel good two days later. Oh. Oh, no. And $5,000 later. Ooh. It's fine. It's fine.

Daniel: Surgery?

Leah: Uh, epidural.

Daniel: Oh, yeah.

Leah: I mean, okay, that being said- Yeah, yeah ... I'm also a professional contortionist that does 300 shows a year, so maybe the injury has something to do with that.

Nichole: Do we have more on this bird?

Daniel: Yes. So a couple of quotes here from the adult toy store We are proud-

Nichole: Uh-huh ...

Daniel: to endorse the Hee Hee- ... for Bird of the Year Hee Hee led the sex positivity movement among songbirds- ... and for that we salute them. And say to you, vote Hee Hee. male and female Hee Hee practice consensual polyamory. Yes. The practice of intimate relationships with more than one partner- Oh ... with the informed consent of all partners, which is rare.

Leah: Do you watch them, like, meet each other and, like, have a little kitchen table about it? Yeah. Yeah. Are- Like, how do they know this? Are

Daniel: they keeping track of, like- How do

Leah: they know? ... like consent

Daniel: among Hee Hees?

Leah: Are they like, like meet, do they, like, bring a partner to another partner and then they, like, sniff each other's butts?

Like, what? D- are they, like, threesoming?

So, like, if they're not pair bonding, is it polyamorous or are they just practicing solo poly and being, like, sluts?

This is what we don't know. I'm, I have so many questions. I know. We- We'll

Laurel: never know until we can, like, define love- ... and somehow, like, measure and quantify it.

Nichole: Yikes.

Laurel: Ooh. which they claim to have done for dogs, you know?

Nichole: What?

Laurel: Yeah, they did, like, CAT scans or whatever, whatever shows the brain- Uh-huh.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ... shit fire off in dogs, and they, like, it fires same parts of their brains when they see their- Mm-hmm ... owner-

Nichole: Okay ...

Daniel: yeah ...

Laurel: fire off for us when we see loved ones. Yeah.

Daniel: As opposed to cats where the hate-

Leah: Mm-hmm ...

Daniel: fires in their brain.

Leah: They just own us. Yeah. Yeah. Cats own us.

Laurel: it's the same thing like when we get DoorDash delivered.

That's what cats, that's like the synapses that go off in the cat's brain.

Leah: Your driver is approaching. Yeah. Please secure all animals. It's me, I'm the animal.