Daniel: Nicole, you got some good news today.

Nichole: Uh, yeah.

Laurel: I feel like in that moment, , you had just prevented, , a complete possession of Nicole. Like, you were about to become a demon, and then Daniel reminded you of these, this good news, and you're like, "Oh, yeah."

Nichole: Possession averted. Um- I did. I feel like this has been...

This feels so conceited of me.

Laurel: Mm. Mm.

Nichole: , But basically, I had my post-op, , appointment today with my surgeon, and she said everything went great. They congratulated themselves in the OR after my surgery- Mm-hmm ... 'cause they did such a good job. , And she kept using the words beautiful and gorgeous to describe- Aw

my insides.

Laurel: Aw. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. Now-

Laurel: We have those pics, I think, so we can throw those on the internet for stuports.

Daniel: Is this gonna be part of your OnlyFans?

Nichole: Yeah. Get deep inside

Daniel: Nicole. Oh,

Laurel: wow.

Daniel: I mean, I've seen some of the, like, Grindr pics that, like, Dahlia receives. This is not too far off the- Wow ... the mark, so. Wow.

Nichole: but this is not the first time that we've talked about a doctor being exclamatory about my anatomy.

Laurel: Just take it.

Daniel: Yeah. Just

Laurel: take

Daniel: it and

Laurel: ride.

Daniel: Yeah. But previously it was just your vagina.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. So, so now it's like not only is the vestibule beautiful- ... but so is the drawing room, the library.

Laurel: What an estate you have.

Nichole: Yeah, so it was good news.

Laurel: Yay.

Nichole: I'm very excited about it.

Daniel: I like how I just started going into, like, rooms and locations that I feel like I remembered from Clue.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Where is the fetus murdered?

Laurel: There was no fetus, okay?

Nichole: Yeah. It wasn't that awful.

Laurel: Not that that would be wrong or bad if there were a fetus. There just wasn't a fetus.

Nichole: Not this ti- yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's never- Not this

Laurel: time.

Nichole: , There's never been one. my mother even said, she's like, "Even if you wanted to get pregnant, you probably couldn't."

Like,

Daniel: wow. Wow.

Nichole: Wow. She's right. She's totally right.

Daniel: Is it just 'cause of your, your wan pallor?

Nichole: That baby would be pale.

Daniel: It's like a Victorian thing.

Nichole: I'm just too weak to survive childbirth.

Laurel: Oh, my God. What was the, that Republican, uh, senator whatever that was like, thought women couldn't get pregnant from rape, and he's like, "The body just has a whole way of shutting that down."

It's that except for pale children.

Nichole: Too delicate

for this world. Jesus Christ. Oh, my God.

Laurel: Anyways.

Nichole: Welcome to Polyamateur Hour.

Laurel: Mm. I'm Laurel.

Daniel: I am Daniel.

Nichole: I'm Nicole. Laurel-

Laurel: Mm-hmm ...

Nichole: you referenced having a crush on somebody, and I didn't know who this was.

Laurel: Oh. Yeah, so I was listening to Open Pike Night's latest episode, and they have Martin Quinn on again.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Martin Quinn plays young Scotty in Strange New Worlds. Yeah.

Nichole: Oh.

Laurel: He's so cute.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: He's so cute. So they had him on the pod. Texted Cameron, "How do I kiss Martin Quinn?"

Daniel: Uh-huh.

Laurel: Like, hook a sister up.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Cameron's response, I hope he doesn't care that I read this- ... " should probably kiss Martin by keeping your top lip still while working the bottom against his mouth. Utilize... Excuse me. Utilize light to moderate tongue, and be sure to cup his cheek with your hand. And I was mad. I was mad at that point, and then he said, "And fist his hair with your other."

I

Daniel: knew it. I knew that he was being indirectly influenced by Pucking Around- Yes ... when it got so incredibly, like, physical and- Oh ... biological. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Pucking Around, like, th- I think the descriptions, like the sexual and physical descriptions, it's all just really like microcosm. It's all just, like, tight shot.

Like, if it's- Mm-hmm ... if it's cinema-

Laurel: That seems like a common theme in, , describing sex in romance novels. Mm-hmm. Yes. Of just, like, getting very detailed about the particular physicality of it, which makes sense to me.

Daniel: I think that that has increased, though, with the advent of internet hardcore pornography being widely disseminated. I don't think... Like, when I've read older erotica, it's not quite so clinically-

Laurel: It's not so graphic.

Nichole: I think there is a difference, and maybe I will discover this in my research that I'm doing.

Yeah,

Laurel: yeah.

Nichole: difference between erotica, pornography, romance novels, smut. Like-

Laurel: Okay, yes. Yeah ...

Nichole: Pucking Around is firmly smut-

Laurel: Yeah ... considering how much anatomy is described- Yeah ... and actual penetration is described. Yeah. Romance novels, Nora Roberts, it's flowery.

Nichole: It's illustrative. It's, it's very, suggestive.

Laurel: Yeah, without being just, like, graphically-

Nichole: Yeah, it's not like he put his penis- Explicit ... in her vagina-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: and thrust it.

Laurel: Yeah. Yes. I guess I only consume smut, so- Yeah

I'm not really learned.

Daniel: That's way, way more mellow and vague than what you want to do to Martin Quinn.

Laurel: Absolutely.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: He's so sweet. go and listen to, uh, uh, it'll be a couple weeks old episode of Open Pike Night. Listen to any Open Pike Night with Martin Quinn on it, and he is so gracious.

Nichole: Aw.

Laurel: so sweet, I haven't finished this entire episode yet, but at some point in the interview he was like, he's like, "Oh my God, I'm so sorry, guys. I'm not turning around and asking you questions."

Nichole: Oh my God.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: Aw.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: He was on a date with Open Pike Night. He

Laurel: w- yes.

Daniel: And he was being thoughtful.

Laurel: He was being thoughtful and being like, "Wait, I need ... Like, what are your favorite episodes of Strange New Worlds?" Aw. He's also a big rambler, I have a thing for ramblers. I'm a rambler.

Daniel: And short men apparently.

Laurel: Is he short?

Daniel: He seems short on the show.

I don't know if that's how they are, shooting everything to make him seem short- I wonder if he's actually short ... but he, he's, he is shorter than every other character that he's, like, in frame with in any shot.

Nichole: Yeah. He was also delightful at-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: Star Trek Las Vegas.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Like- I think that's where my crush started.

Yes. Like, we saw him on one of the panels there, and I was like, "Oh, he's so cute."

Nichole: And I think he was talking about making a short film with his brother.

Laurel: Yes. So he talks about that a little bit too- Yeah ... 'cause l- I think one of the callers asked, like, "Oh, what are some other projects that you're really proud of?"

Mm-hmm. And, like, he's made a bunch of shorts and, like, music videos and stuff with his brother. That's what it was. Yes.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. S- so it sounds like he's into generating low-budget, unremunerative content. So all I'm saying, Open Pike Night, we know you've got ins.

Laurel: Let Laurel in.

Daniel: We ... Maybe you can hold back on the things that Laurel wants to do to Martin Quinn. Maybe we start with just a podcast date, and we have Martin on for ... You know, if he is not non-monogamous, we could have him on for a compersion therapy.

Laurel: Mm.

Daniel: Or just, like, you know, we're gonna do with you guys, a little bit of a Star Trek booty roster.

Oh,

Laurel: yeah.

Nichole: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where we choose our polycule from among the characters of a Star Trek series.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Laurel.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: It has worked for me meeting somebody, interviewing somebody on this podcast-

Laurel: Oh ...

Nichole: and then-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: it moving to flirting. So-

Laurel: Mm. Oh, yeah. Yeah ...

Nichole: you know, it could work for you.

Laurel: That's my in.

Daniel: Flirting to sexting to Star Trek Las Vegas.

Nichole: I mean, we don't have to include that. Like-

Laurel: Geez, Daniel, leave some mystery. Yeah. This is, this is semi-nude erotica, not- This- ... full frontal smut Let, let all the Sumers ask, "Is this me?" This show.

Daniel: How many people have you invited to Star Trek Las Vegas with us? This Stubert, this particular Stubert, I know for a fact that he loves whenever we mention him on the podcast.

Nichole: We never mention him on the podcast.

Daniel: We have a song for him on the podcast. Yeah,

Nichole: but it's not for him.

Daniel: Well, don't tell him then.

Laurel: All right, Martin Quinn, here I come.

Nichole: I'm excited for you.

Laurel: I love that, yeah, I've just, like, made up this crush with an actor Who I've never met.

Daniel: I would like to think that, " Okay, Martin Quinn, here I come," is the way that you're going to announce your orgasm.

Laurel: If, if I have the opportunity, I will.

Nichole: Oh, no, whether or not it's with Martin Quinn.

Daniel: Now you're just arming her for- That's

Laurel: a good idea.

Daniel: Now you're just arming her for another sex bit. You're like, "I don't wanna be a part of you guys' sex bits." And then you're like, "Psst."

Laurel: Nicole is, like, secret saboteur, like

Nichole: No, I'm secret, hooking you up. I- Yes ... not so secretly, matched with somebody on Hinge just to give them your phone number.

Laurel: So. Yeah, it was good. We're chatting. It's good. We're chatting.

Nichole: I'm so into it.

Daniel: Maybe you should, become a matchmaker.

Laurel: Matchmaker, matchmaker.

Nichole: I, I know. I, there are so many things that I would be good at.

Laurel: Let's see how this works out first, okay? All right?

Daniel: So many things I would be good at.

Your insides are beautiful. I think that you could be a matchmaker.

So, uh, I thought we could start off with a, a little horse d'oeuvres, you know? A little app-etweezers, a little, amuse-bitch.

Nichole: You're making food references because we're gonna do DM sliders? Ah, that's great.

Laurel: Oh, I did not pick up on that at all. I was stuck on the horses.

Daniel: So DM Sliders is the segment where we open up the old mail bag

Laurel: Ye olde mail baggie

Daniel: Yep. Uh, if you wanna connect it to horses, the old mail feed bag. Mm-hmm. That's what you call me.

Nichole: Or the pony express.

Daniel: Who-

Laurel: Yeah, that, that's what I was thinking. Yeah. But from now on, I'm gonna ask Nicole where that old mail feed bag is.

Daniel: Well, now that I'm unemployed, no longer your feed bag.

Laurel: That's true.

Daniel: All right.

Laurel: Oh, we should say thank you, while you're pulling information up. When announcing Daniel's layoff, we had also started a Ko-fi, or coffee, account to take some, love donations from you stooperts. and thank you so much to everybody who-

Nichole: Oh, my God

Laurel: threw some money our way. Really appreciate it. Right before that, our subscription for our editing software came up again. Yeah. Which was, like, 300 bucks.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: and so th- like, it is hugely helpful to, like, not have to worry about, And have some of that expense knocked off and not, have to worry about that, is just, like, an added thing.

so really appreciate it. it's always there if you're just feeling extra lovey and generous- ... and just wanna throw some money at us. in our Instagram profile. I pinned it on our Blue Sky, we should add it to our website too.

But thank you again.

Nichole: Thank you.

Daniel: I am a poor, poor urchin.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: and I too would like to thank you all. and as everybody here knows, that's very hard for me to come out and say.

Laurel: You ungrateful feed bag.

Daniel: I'd also like to, uh, invite people to, find that link again, 'cause as any urchin would say, " Could I have some more?" "Could I have some more, please?"

Laurel: I was trying to buy you time

Nichole: Yeah, but he needed to make the urchin reference.

Laurel: Oh yeah, he was busy-

Nichole: Yeah ...

Laurel: computing that. He's

Nichole: like, "Who, Dickens?" Wait a second. Get in there.

Laurel: Dickens? Oh, it's me, P- Pickle.

Daniel: we'd like to start off with a little DM slider From a very special Stubert. Socktopus Christina-

Laurel: Aw

Daniel: And a little bit of background on this. If you will recall in our episode with Socktopus Jack Where we discussed the city of Brighton for my own Poly Idaho, he mentioned that for a spicy party, as Rosie Quartz might say, they had a kind of a bin, where they collected all the garments that people left behind, like the mystery garments.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Socks, underwear, bras, jock straps, cod pieces.

And Jack in, like, the text thread was like, you know, offering up pictures of these items for people to claim, and one of them ended up being his partner

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: we treated this as kind of like a mystery, and now mystery solved. " Sending all the healing vibes and hugs across the pond to Nicole." Aw. Aw. " Jack said it was endometriosis surgery. I also had the surgery, and oh my goodness, my quality of life is so much better now." "I hope it's not long until she gets to experience that too."

Nichole: Oh my God. Thank you.

Daniel: " To solve a mystery, I put my underwear in the party lost and found because I couldn't be bothered to go to the laundry basket on the top floor, and I knew the order Muppet would do it for me as part of the redistribution process."

#dreamwife.

Nichole: Wow.

Laurel: I love this.

Nichole: Smart, beautiful. Generous.

Daniel: Wow. I hope that you say these things about me the next time I pull some shit like this.

Laurel: The next time Daniel leaves his socks somewhere weird. #Dreamwife.

Daniel: evading daily chores.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: I think that's great.

Daniel: Me too. We love to be updated, you know- Mm-hmm ... to have the, the ending of these stories kinda capped off with O. Henry twists. It's great.

Laurel: I love it.

Daniel (2): this next one is an email to polyamateurhour@gmail.com. and this is from Mackenz. " I've just found you and started to listen and have only listened to two episodes, but anyone who decides even as a joke to troll Ken Ham has gained an instant fan. If you really wanna know who that Australian stain is-

think the change my mind meme guy, but Aussie and just as toxic." So- ... Ken Ham, we didn't know who this was, but this is the person who runs that Answers from Genesis- Genesis,

Laurel: yeah.

Daniel: Oh my God ... site or whatever

Laurel: I didn't know he's Aussie. That's funny. Liz Stuber must be Aussie too, I think.

Daniel: Oh, yeah. Um, McKenz is absolutely, like, an Aussie-style nickname.

Right?

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Should we publicize our pranking of Ken Ham more broadly?

Daniel: Maybe in Australia. I think here in America they'd be like, "Hmm, weird flex, but okay."

So this is, like, our, anti-Australian avatar, right?

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Like, the Crocodile Hunter is, on the positive side.

Laurel: The Crocodile Hunter.

Nichole: Was it Crocodile Hunter?

Laurel: No. That's why I'm, like, glitching. Steve Irwin

Daniel: Okay, so on one end-

we've got, Steve Irwin and on the other end now we've got Ken Ham-

Nichole: All right ...

Daniel: who, thanks to McKenz, now is an official enemy of the pod.

Laurel: It was Crocodile Hunter.

Daniel: Well, geez.

Laurel: Sorry, it just didn't sound right.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: He's a conservationist. Why is he hunting?

Nichole: He's not hunting.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: He's hunting crocodiles the way that unicorn hunters are hunting unicorns. He just wants to be close to them. He wants them in his kind of, you know, social milieu.

Laurel: Um- Yeah

Nichole: All right. Okay, yeah, I'm down to-

Laurel: Yes ...

Nichole: to campaign against Ken Ham.

Laurel: Just the name, Ken Ham.

Nichole: Yeah,

Daniel: it sounds like he shortened both of his names, right? Yeah.

Nichole: Kenneth Hambone.

Daniel: So McGenz, if you can help us, like distribute our anti-Ken Ham propaganda, we'd much appreciate it. our Australian list- listenership is strong. For a while Australia was like our number two country for listenership- Yeah ... after the United States. UK has pulled well ahead of you.

Nichole: Ooh.

Laurel: Oh, shit.

Daniel: So I don't know if you wanna keep that English-speaking country rap battle going.

Nichole: Let's not encourage international conflict.

Daniel: You're right.

Nichole: Let's encourage conflict against assholes like Kenneth Hambone.

Well, thank you, Mackenz.

Laurel: Yeah, thank

Nichole: you. Really appreciate you reaching out. That's really nice.

Laurel: Yeah. Glad you're here. Welcome. Welcome. Hopefully we don't freak you out. Too late.

Daniel: Oh my God, I sent an email to the podcast, and like two and a half weeks later- ... they were talking about me.

Laurel: No, they just like go in the back catalog and they're like, "Oh, these fucking people are crazy."

Daniel: Oh, that's right, they've just started their journey. Yep. Yep. Yeah. It's like, Jesse, who was only four hours into- Into

Laurel: plucking around.

Daniel: Oh,

Laurel: poor thing.

Daniel: I'm like, this person has 90 more hours of Polyamateur Hour- ... to go.

Nichole: speaking of DM sliders and getting in contact with us-

you can send an email to polyamateurhour@gmail.com. You can submit a question anonymously, or on Is This Poly or Unicorn Hunter Hunters at polyamateurhour.com, our website, or you can DM us on Blue Sky or Instagram at Polyamateur Hour because y'all, we need questions.

Yeah. You know why we need questions? Because Multiamory is going to be a guest on our podcast and, they answer questions. And again, like we've said, if you submit a question you could get us to answer it or-

Laurel: Or ...

Nichole: an actual licensed therapist. Or, stalwarts like Multiamory.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: This is gonna be our 100th episode.

you've got a minute, but not that long. Like by the time this episode drops, you'll have about probably-

Laurel: 30 seconds starting now.

Daniel: It is gonna be a pretty musical episode, what that means is that there is a chance that you could get your question answered in song.

Laurel: Oh, musicalized.

Nichole: Yeah, that way you always remember the answer.

Laurel: Oh, yeah.

Nichole: So like you're in a situation, you're like, "Oh shit, what should I do?" What do I do? And then you remember the song.

Daniel: And you're like, "Guacamole, haircuts, haircuts, housing."

Laurel: Don't question the logic.

Nichole: what's next?

Laurel: Is this poly?

Nichole: Yeah, so we watched Murder Bot.

Daniel: Was this a Stubert recommended watch?

Laurel: No, this I actually, I had just started watching. I was like, "Oh. Oh, shit." Poly. Poly. Sound the alarms.

Daniel: Right in your face.

Laurel: I gotta ask.

Daniel: We should get you a, like, a dinner bell that you can ring.

Laurel: You will love that once we're all living together.

Nichole: Yeah, I'll really love that. 'Cause then it's, it's gonna start with, Oh, I found something poly," and then it's gonna- Uh-huh ... ring, and then it's gonna be like, "Oh my God, look at this crazy internet thing," and it's gonna ring. And then it's gonna be like-

Laurel: It's just any time I want attention.

Nichole: Yes. It's me like, "You guys, I had a thought."

Laurel: And, and then you're gonna gather and I'm gonna be like, "Shit, I forgot it."

Daniel: I really enjoyed Murder Bot.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Spoiler alert. We're

Nichole: five episodes in.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: We're gonna break this season in half-

Nichole: Mm-hmm ...

Daniel: because we do all these things at the last minute, and we did not have enough time to watch five hours of content only- Murder Bot-ing ... only two and a half.

Laurel: Yeah. Correct.

Daniel: So the plot of the Bot is that this takes place at some undetermined time in the future.

I feel like it's a little bit of a universe that's, kind of in the Blade Runner, Expanse kind of vision of the future where almost everything is under corporate control- Yeah ... and there's all these, there's a lot of grimy outposts and a lot of, suppression.

Laurel: I feel like y- once you get to a certain era of sci-fi-

Daniel: Yeah

Laurel: everyone has just accepted that, authoritarian corporatism is where we end up.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Era as far as, like, when something was written- Yeah ... or created?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: there is a sec unit, a security unit, who is basically abused like pretty much all the workers in this future, but he's not really considered human-

Laurel: Mm-hmm

Daniel: even though he is made up with a lot of organic material, and he is considered sentient. But people are, like, burning his hands for fun and shit like that. But he's been spending all this time trying to, like, hack his code so that he can have free will, and in, like, the cold open in the first episode, he succeeds in doing this, so then he, gets assigned on his next assignment to accompany this crew from the... Where did they call it?

Laurel: Preservation Alliance.

Daniel: Preservation Alliance is kind of like Planet Burning

Laurel: That's the, that's the vibes they give off, for sure.

Nichole: 1,000%, yes. Yeah. So far we know in this universe there are corporate-run planets- Yeah ... um, that are in the corporate rim.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. And then there's this at least one other planet that is outside of the corporation or corporate control, Preservation Alliance.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: And before we get into the specific polyamory among this we should say that the whole crew seems like a polycule or like a non-authoritarian kind of cult or something. when they need to make decisions, they gather and they reach consensus.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: It's very commie.

Laurel: Yeah, they're, they're very much played up as like, a Burning Man, like commie hippie stereotype-

Daniel: Yes ...

Laurel: kind of.

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: and everything we're seeing is through the view of the Murderbot. with his narration.

and so he is also very like skeptical and like pokes fun at them a lot. Yeah. And I think it starts with him just saying they're weird. Like-

Daniel: Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. It's like from the point of view of a cop who is beginning to have his worldview deconstructed.

Laurel: I really like this show because it is, um, contrasting these kind of two extremes of like, you know, authoritarian corporatism and how like dark and ugly that is, and also how sort of comical and unserious, we can perceive like extreme leftism or hippie burner- Mm-hmm

culture kind of stuff.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: And then having Murderbot in the middle of it, who is kind of, nihilistic to me.

Daniel: Also reads very much autistic spectrum.

Laurel: Yes. Yes.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. I

Nichole: think that's intentional.

Daniel: Yes.

Laurel: Yeah. And it's him trying to like reconcile these two places, and all of it seems sort of like equally bad, in different ways.

Nichole: That's interesting, 'cause I would say that, like, the Preservation Alliance so far in what we've seen, it's really easy to poke fun at kind of Burner culture- Mm-hmm ... and, hippie-dom and blah, blah, blah. And I feel like the, best way to get me annoyed about Burners is like- ... to present the patina of kindness and, being one with each other and equality and equity and all that other stuff, but actually, secretly-

Laurel: Being shitty

Nichole: being shitty. Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Case

Daniel: and point. And for example. And this does not seem to be the

Nichole: case. It doesn't seem to be- No, they seem very genuine. Yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of surprising to me, and makes me happy because this Preservation Alliance, like at least four of the characters that we've met in this Preservation Alliance group, are poly.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. And so far it's not presented as a joke.

Daniel: So the first polycule within this pseudo-polycule that we're introduced to is composed of Arada, who is ... I don't really know what they all do. They all seem to-

Nichole: They all have roles. Yeah. They don't really get into ... Yeah

they're gathering- Yeah ... samples and doing scientific survey of the planet.

Daniel: They probably all take turns making the communal stew.

Nichole: Sure.

Daniel: Yeah. Then we have Pin-Lee, who is Arada's spouse.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: they are non-binary, which is also really cool. There's a lot of like non-binary representation- Yeah, mm-hmm

in this show. And then Okay, so you, we see Pin-Lee and Arada discussing how they would like to form a new throuple, And they talk very casually about how they're gonna create a relationship contract.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And it's like a temporary relationship contract. it is uh, kind of what Lauren Goucher is trying to, like, talk us into doing- Yeah. Yes ... for our agreement for all living together.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Like, and this seems to be just par for the course. They don't even pause to explain it. I love it so much that it's just like, "Oh yeah, let's have a contract."

Nichole: Yeah,

Laurel: There is a moment, when we're seeing the feed of the s- like, security feed, 'cause a lot of what you see in the show is because it's from Murderbot's perspective. He has all of these feeds of, like, security cams around the base or w- compound, whatever they're calling it, this, like, place that they're living to do their research on this planet.

and because it's all provided by, like, the giant corporate entity- he has access to all the feeds. So you're seeing a lot of this in, like, security camera feeds, so that's, like, sort of how you get to this, like, omnipotent point of view.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: but there's a moment where they're having the conversation where Pin-Lee and Arada are having the conversation, and after Arada leaves the room, Pin-Lee goes, And ' cause Arada was in mortal j- danger prior to this Yeah ... there is a little bit of, like, okay, they're having this new lease on life moment. Pin-Lee is having a, like, I'm really appreciative of this person- Yeah

and I want to, like, celebrate that they are here. Mm-hmm. So I want ... Like, I know that they're interested in this person. So there is some ... There is a little bit of, like, hesitation that you see in there.

Daniel: I think that there's more than just a little because they keep coming back to it.

They keep showing, like, react shots of Pin-Lee, looking kind of sad or left out. Like, when they all start making out in this one scene, it's really clear that Pin-Lee is kind of being pushed into a kind of a third wheel kind of situation.

Laurel: But it's funny because they also establish that Roti has more of a crush on Pin-Lee

Daniel: Really?

Nichole: Yes. Yeah. At the beginning. Oh. So Murderbot, because he can pick up on everybody's, biological signals-

Daniel: Yeah ...

Nichole: knows and sees that, Arata has a thing for Rati.

Daniel: Uh-huh.

Nichole: And Rati has a thing for Pinli.

Daniel: Oh, to which Pinli is completely oblivious so far. Yeah,

Nichole: completely oblivious. Yes. Yeah. Yes.

Daniel: So I think that this is probably setting up some wonderful hijinks-

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Oh, absolutely ... to

Laurel: ensue. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. The fourth character-

Laurel: Mm-hmm ...

Nichole: who is poly is Mensah, and she is the, um-

Daniel: First among equals-

Nichole: She's the first- ... of the crew ... yes, she's the first among equals. So they don't have a leader. They just have a first among equals. I can't think of a more matriarchal name than Mensah.

Oh

Laurel: my God, yes. Yes.

Daniel: See, I'm fucking cis dude. The, when I heard it-

Laurel: You were thinking of the fucking IQ club or whatever.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you were thinking, oh, she's like super, super smart, so they just called her Mensah in the future. Maybe porque no los dos. It's like-

Nichole: I mean, truly, she's incredibly smart.

and is a matriarch in that- Mm-hmm ... she is a mother- Yeah ... nine times over. Yeah. She actually has nine children.

Daniel: Po- probably, like, post-menopausal, so the Mensah is, is not a factor- ... I'm guessing.

Nichole: and she casually mentions-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: because she does talk at Murderbot, and this is, where I'm like, oh yeah, this is definitely intentional, spectrum behavior.

Like, Murderbot has trouble with eye contact-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: and doesn't understand why people wanna share about their families.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Um- And,

Daniel: Ani needs to do these, like, stim things constantly. Like, "I have to check the perimeter. I have to go check the perimeter."

Nichole: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Mensah just casually mentions, just the two of my spouses- Uh-huh ... I'm like, oh, she has multiple spouses. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. More than two.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: and I just, again, I really liked that it was just so casual and not a joke.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I am really curious about where this show takes its treatment of polyamory, both in the second half of the season and in its second season.

Did it get a second season? Was it canceled?

Laurel: I think so.

Nichole: I have a ton of, like, science fiction questions, that we don't necessarily have to get into. It

Laurel: was renewed for a second season.

Nichole: Great. If at all. Okay. Well, then maybe it will be answered for me. Why, why, why does a Murderbot have to have organic material?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Why?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Maybe so that they can set him up to be fully functional.

Laurel: Oh, they do talk about the, comfort bots.

Daniel: Yeah. But- He does, he does not appear to have genitals. He's got, like, a Ken front, right- Mm-hmm. Yes ... you know? But maybe, you know, since he's constantly being repaired, maybe there's a, you know, a plot development where he just constructs his own junk, in a very, uh, sci-fi trans kinda way.

Laurel: Daniel is so excited for this subplot. So excited.

Daniel: Well, the, the, the, uh, the actor from Pen15-

Nichole: Yes ...

Daniel: is, like, in there trying to seduce Murderbot- Yep ... at this point.

Nichole: Yeah, it's great. It's great. I mean, if I didn't know it was based on a book-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: I would say, oh, it's because they wanted Alexander Skarsgard in it.

Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Um, and also that's just cheaper-

Laurel: Yes ...

Nichole: to have just the costume-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: and not an actual bot.

Laurel: Yeah, to do, like, constant CGI and stuff.

Nichole: Yeah. Like, that, that would make sense to me. But-

Laurel: I don't remember if there is an explanation that I've just forgotten about, but part of me is like, oh, if you have, biomechanical material, maybe it is easier or somehow, whatever, easier for it to be regenerative On its own.

Nichole: Maybe, yeah. Yeah. Okay, that's a good theory. Mm. That's a good theory.

Daniel: I also think that probably even in the future, like cracking the complexity of a human brain in a very small package-

Laurel: Mm-hmm ...

Daniel: you know? Like sure, we have like, computers that are the size of Nevada that can kind of- Yeah ... maybe- Mm-hmm ... get there right now.

Yeah. But I don't think that even, you know, what, 500, 1,000 years in the future, like they're gonna be able to create like-

Laurel: Yeah, they haven't figured out how to unfold a proton yet, so they have to use a human brain.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: So is this poly?

Daniel: I think that it contains many little poly elements, I'm gonna say it's preliminarily poly. You know, since we haven't seen the, like, second half yet, like, I wanna see how they treat these relationships. Yeah.

Nichole: That's what I was gonna say- Mm ... is that I feel like we haven't seen where the relationships have gone, and we've seen a li- tiny bit of conflict, but we don't know if, like, more conflict is coming

Laurel: Yeah.

I'm gonna say Yes

like, even if it goes wrong-

Daniel: We have previously said that even negative depictions of polyamory still count.

Laurel: They're still polyamory, yeah. It's

Daniel: still polyamory. For sure,

Nichole: yeah. I just don't know what kind of conflict is gonna-

Laurel: Yeah

Nichole: come up,

Laurel: Yeah, unless they do something real out of left field. Yeah.

Daniel: What if Murderbot, like, totally cowboys one of the people in the polycule?

Nichole: Sucks for them. There's no junk down there.

Laurel: Yeah, no junk.

Daniel: unless my plot twist that I've been hoping for- Mm-hmm

taking notes-

Nichole: Mm-hmm ...

Daniel: drawing sketches, unless

Laurel: that- He grows himself some junk.

Daniel: Yeah, unless that comes to pass.

I have storyboards, Murderbot people- ... if you, if you need them. Storyboards.

Laurel: They're notebook sketches.

Nichole: I guess he's still got fingies. He's

Laurel: got fingies. He's got a mouth.

Nichole: And a mouth.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. What's with the heteronormativity all of a sudden?

Laurel: Well, we didn't say he needs a particular kind of junk.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: That's true. He could build himself, like, some sci-fi junk.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. That'd be sweet.

Nichole: What, like it does different things?

Daniel: Yeah. Like

Nichole: the Swiss Army knife-

Daniel: Yeah ... cock? Programmed in multiple techniques.

Laurel: Uh, I mean, he feels pain, so he must feel pleasure

Daniel: What if, we did like , the Murderbot porn parody, The Saint

Laurel: Murderbot? Yeah, and what are you imagining? That

Nichole: the one character that's not involved in any kind of romantic entanglements- ... suddenly is.

Daniel: But what if, what if he doesn't actually develop junk or anything, and instead he is just apathetically watching other people fuck, and just being totally over it?

Nichole: Yeah, that feels right.

Laurel: With some like voiceover.

Daniel: Exactly.

Nichole: Yes, narrating how stupid it is.

Laurel: That would be good. I would watch that.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: For, like Mystery Science Theater 3000, but like

Nichole: I am going to buy this book at my new favorite bookstore. Yeah.

Laurel: Oh, yeah.

Nichole: Parallel Worlds.

Oh,

Laurel: yeah. Great place.

Nichole: Which is on Alberta- Yeah ... Street in Northeast Portland. So if you are in Portland, check out Parallel Worlds.

Laurel: Tell them we sent you and they'll have no fucking idea what we're w- we're talking about- ... but just do it anyway.

Nichole: Ah. I mean, maybe, maybe, 'cause they do have book clubs there, different kinds of book clubs.

Oh. And so maybe we have a little poly amateur- Oh, that

Laurel: would be fun ...

Nichole: science fiction. Yeah, do

Laurel: a poly sci-fi book club.

Nichole: Yeah. I'd be

Laurel: into that.

Daniel: Which there seems to be a rapidly expanding canon of this type- Yeah ... of work.

Nichole: Apparently, yeah.

Daniel: So we've got a lot of stuff on the list, both old, you know, real old, like Robert Heinlein old.

Mm. Yeah. To, like, really new authors of the current wave of the sci-fi, like N.K. Jemisin. So I think that this is actually a real possibility for us- Yeah ... to do, to kind of develop some content. Plus, it is also causing me to, like, look at the, like, classic space crew in a more polyamorous light.

Like, that is done literally in, like, The Expanse series and- Mm ... The Expanse novels- Yeah ... which we also need to cover.

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: Like, where there's a whole ship that is just a polycule.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah.

Daniel: but it makes me think of, like, Star Trek and, like, Star Trek booty roster, you know? That, like- Don't they kinda feel like polycules?

Laurel: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's like like a professional polycule. It... They're, they're deeply intimate relationships- Yes ... because You have common goals-

Daniel: Yep ...

Laurel: and you live and work together- Yeah ... to, like,, achieve those goals. and so, there is some level of, intimacy, even if it's not, like, necessarily romantic or sexual intimacy that occurs.

Like, I think a- about that, about creating art. Mm. Mm-hmm. and if you're doing any kind of art that requires, a group, whether it's, filmmaking or, you know, photography that you're involving, like, multiple people in, or, you know, while we're on the topic of burners, producing art for, like, Burning Man camps- Mm-hmm

kind of that. Like, those are all, like, deeply intimate relationships in which you're working on some kind of, common expression.

Nichole: I'm so excited for this. Yeah. I really, really love science fiction.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: So I am-

Laurel: Yeah, let's do it ...

Nichole: so down.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Cool.

Laurel: Woo.

Laurel: Well, if we start the book club, what's the first book that we're gonna read?

Daniel: me and Nicole are reading Stranger in a Strange Land right now.

Laurel: Oh, okay. And- I read that w- before.

Daniel: You'll have to access- hidden memories.

Laurel: I'll get the CliffsNotes.

Nichole: CliffsNotes.

Laurel: I'll get the SparkNotes.

It's

Nichole: a more updated version of that, yeah.

Daniel: Anyway, why don't we invite all the Stewbarts to start reading along Stranger in a Strange Land, and you know, once we start zeroing in on a recording date, we can ask them to start sending in voice memos.

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: Okay, yeah. I would love that. Starting Stranger in a Strange Land.

Start now.

Nichole: so maybe we should talk about some not so nice people. Who are, who are not nice.

Daniel: You know, it's in the, it's in, like, the, uh, the Venn diagram of not so Nazi and not so-

Nichole: That's good

Laurel: I'm just gonna... There are hurt people who just wanna hurt some people, I think. Yeah.

Daniel: You know, that's the way it is in the corporation rim.

We're talking, of course, of-

Laurel: Monogamy

Nichole: Are you okay?

Daniel: I'm gonna go a real quick break to go pee.

Nichole: Okay.

Be right back. These aren't as sour as I thought they would be.

Laurel: No.

Nichole: I'm sorry.

Laurel: That's okay. '

Nichole: Cause you like sour.

Laurel: I do like sour, but- It says sour ... it does say sour bright. It's a visual, not a flavor thing.

Nichole: Oh, wait, he kept his recording?

Laurel: He did, yeah. Oh. Now we can use the f- the timer and the footstep thing on Daniel.

Nichole: By we, do you mean him?

Laurel: Yeah, he can use it on himself.

Nichole: When he re-

Laurel: Daniel.

Nichole: I love you.

Laurel: Wait, are we like Children of the Corn now?

Nichole: Daniel. Oh,

Laurel: hey, Daniel.

Nichole: Hey.

Laurel: Hey, Daniel.

Daniel: Hello, everybody. I recently got back from a peeing expedition in the next room.

Laurel: How, how did it go?

Daniel: It was harrowing at first.

Laurel: Oh, no.

Daniel: You know, being, uh, 47, 48, sometimes you just have to stand there, and pray.

Laurel: And pray? Pray for the urine to come.

Daniel: And then all of a sudden, you're in luck.

Laurel: Ha.

Nichole: Speaking of toilets...

Laurel: Welcome to Reddit.

Nichole: We went to the toilet of the internet. Reddit. I don't know how this happened. I think I literally just opened Reddit and was like, "I gotta find something." front page of my Reddit, there is a subreddit called Poly Critical Safe Haven.

Daniel: Which is also the name of a region in the Murderbot universe.

Nichole: so of course I click. Right?

Laurel: Of course.

Nichole: And of course, it's like, I don't know, three to five people all yelling at each other about the same thing-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: which is how poly people are awful.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: how we're all toxic, how we're all abusers, how, we're gaslighting ourselves. Mm-hmm.

Laurel: That's really the worst crime of it all.

How we treat ourselves. Yeah.

Nichole: so we start digging into the content, and it literally, it's, it's just a rehashing of all the things that we've heard before. but then there is some kind of drawing that's really hard to decipher what it actually is.

and it is cross-posted across Poly Critical Safe Haven and Poly Critical.

Daniel: I have not seen this drawing. Are you gonna show it to me for the first time now? Oh, yeah. I'm gonna show it to

Nichole: you.

Laurel: What do you see? And this will determine whether or not you are psychologically fit to participate in society.

Daniel: The whole scene looks like it's taking place in a big steel tube or tunnel.

We have, on the bottom of this steel tube or tunnel, a dog or a wolf or some type of canine, but its eyes are obscured, and it seems to have wings or feathers. And then it appears to be being attacked by a multi-headed Hydra animal, And each head of this Hydra has a heart on its forehead, and they appear to be wearing, like, maybe some type of Star Trek uniform.

it's like a two-toned kind of, onesie that all of the, the beasts are wearing.

Laurel: So I think that those are the colors of the polyamory pride flag.

Daniel: Oh,

Nichole: okay.

Daniel: Oh. Okay.

Nichole: All

Daniel: right. Which, which, uh, that shows that they're in the know because we do by necessity, like, part of the rule book we have to dress with the colors of the polyamory flag.

Laurel: Yeah. Oh, I thought you were gonna say we have to dress matching, and I was gonna say, "I do love a matchy-matchy."

Nichole: Laurel and I have done it.

Laurel: Yeah. Oops, we matched.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: I saw this. I clicked on it because I was like, "This picture is confusing," but it is very clear that there is a victim.

Which, you know, checks out. and so I, I scrolled down a little bit, to one of the comments 'cause I thought maybe someone else would make a little more sense of the image.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And someone commented on it, and they're like, "By the way, just wanted to let you know that the subreddit you originally posted this on is run by a bunch of insane people whom defend incest, believes toxic relationships and/or downright abuse is fine as long as the relationship is monogamous, and will ban anyone that doesn't agree with them and their brand of abuse apologism."

Uh, and then it goes on with sort of the typical, like, "Just wanted to, like, make you aware of who you're associating with." Oh,

Nichole: dear

Laurel: Lord. Like, It is very, like, sort of cancel kid kind of, coded-

Nichole: Yeah ...

Laurel: behavior. and then someone else below that comments, like, Oh, yeah, I was, like, kicked out of that subreddit too."

Daniel: So this is a subreddit for all the people, I think, who have been kicked out- Kicked out ... of the polycritical-

Laurel: Of the other polycritical subreddit- Yeah ... which is hilarious. I think it is so funny

Nichole: It's wild. I- Okay, so, so we dug into, like, this subreddit as far as, like, the About. Yeah,

Laurel: yes.

Nichole: And it is,

Laurel: It is a direct response ...

Nichole: a direct response, and also basically says, like, you will be kicked out if you do any of these things regarding polyamory. Yeah.

Laurel: So then do not promote anything related to the poly lifestyle and do not normalize abuse in monogamous relationships under the guise of protecting the sanctity of monogamy.

Which is so, like okay. I'll- I have to also read rule number five of this subreddit. Yes, yeah. Because I think it'll just, not that pointing out someone's hypocrisy has ever really, like, changed anything for anybody. But, I just think this is hilarious. so rule number five of polycritical safe haven haven, "Attempts to pathologize monogamy will result in an immediate ban."

Because that's not what they're doing to polyamory in every single one of these posts. " To be more specific, there are plenty unhealthy and toxic patterns in all types of relationships you may feel free to discuss. The moment the discussion veers into presenting monogamy as abusive or controlling by default, this will result in a ban."

Nichole: I don't understand.

Laurel: So yeah, please stereotype and reduce polyamory down to a inherently abusive and toxic- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... relationship modality, but if you try to do the same to monogamy, you will be banned.

Nichole: But, uh, uh, but nope. They could- Nope ...

Laurel: I mean, this is classically internet high horse bullshit.

Yeah. Just say, "No poly people allowed."

Nichole: Or, don't talk about abuse. Or, or they could talk about ab- I don't know, d- it just feels like, it feels like such a weird, 180.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: And also incredibly subjective.

Laurel: It's also, like, clearly, and I'm gonna get kicked out because I'm pathologizing now.

Everything in the subreddit is an externalization of internal bad feelings. Yeah. So they wanted to get on the polycritical sub because they need to externalize some interpersonal pain that they experienced.

Nichole: Right.

Laurel: They then went and got re-victimized, I guess, in their polycritical sub. Mm-hmm. And now they had to create a whole new subreddit- Yeah

to then again externalize the interpersonal pain that they felt in that subreddit and- and yell it into the ether.

Daniel: Now, I feel like this is a common thing in like, as you put it, cancel kid culture.

Laurel: Oh, yeah.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah. Right? But there's this tendency that I've just seen in this, and I've seen this elsewhere on the internet, of just extending the term abuser to anyone whom you do not like.

Like, they immediately become part of this, like- Yeah ... abuser conspiracy. And I'm guessing this person was probably abused at some point. Like, it was probably all this is rooted in some instance of real abuse. But, like, poly people at large are not their abuser. The fucking, polycritical is not their abuser, and yet now they're all in a camp together, you know?

Like- Mm-hmm ... the only people who are not their abuser are the 12 people in this subreddit. And they are- But

Laurel: eventually, eventually they will abuse each other.

Daniel: Because they're on notice. Polycritical

Nichole: safe haven, safe haven. Yes.

Daniel: They've been put on notice in these rules. They're like one step, and you go to the splinter group.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: And that's, that's why it's like it reminds me of, like, this fractal pattern of increasing intensity- Yeah ... and increasingly small groups.

Laurel: Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. Where eventually this person is just gonna be alone.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah.

Nichole: And, you know, I think we talk a lot about how on polyamory subrets- subreddits or polyamory groups or whatever, we don't spend our time, taking down monogamy- Yeah

and talking about how abusive it is or whatever. Like- Yeah. No ... it, we just don't, like, spend the time to create these entire online communities where we are taking down a relationship modality. Yeah. Now, we do ask the question, "Are you okay?" out of concern.

Like, we are genuinely concerned about

Daniel: some people. Uh, I don't know. I always read that in the, uh the tone of like, "Bless your heart," you know?

Nichole: I can, I can feign ignorance on that one. and I, and this is the thing, is that, like, I don't give a shit what these people think. Yeah. They are entitled to their opinion, you know?

they can yell into the ether all they want. They can yell at each other, at themselves, to other people. I don't really give a shit. I think that it's much less the content and more just, like, the severity, and like I do worry about people's, like, cortisol levels. Yeah. I'm just like, this, this doesn't feel like a great use of time.

Yeah. You must... Yes, I wanna validate that you were hurt at one point.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: But yelling into an echo chamber with 12 other people-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: just doesn't feel like a great healthy way of moving toward healing.

Laurel: Yeah. It becomes, like, a weird obs- you and I were getting a kick out of exploring this the other day.

Totally. Because... And we weren't even, like, it wasn't about the content. immediately was just interested in this, like, schism- Yes ... and like, and it's more, like, sort of the psychology of, online group think. Yeah. Which can apply to any, like, relationship modality or whatever.

Nichole: Yeah.

Didn't we were terribly interested in the schism of the naked bike ride.

Laurel: Yes. Oh, yeah.

Nichole: And sticker culture.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah. It happens everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah. And yeah, so it just becomes sort of, yeah, this you know, microcosm of just a greater phenomena of which we don't want to experience discomfort- Yeah

and conflict. And, and we're so chronically online. I was just talking to my roommate about this earlier, cause she, like, specializes in, conflict resolution and stuff. Mm-hmm. And how just ill-equipped we are to deal with friction these days. Yeah. and how unfortunate and antisocial it is.

Yeah. And so you end up, victimizing and isolating yourself- Yeah. Yes ... because you can't deal with the world.

Daniel: Oh, man. what if we looked at that drawing as, like, a representation of this person's inner world?

Nichole: I think that's what they want.

Is that not what they want?

Laurel: they think this is what's actually happened to them-

Nichole: Ah ...

Laurel: is that a six-headed poly beast bit their neck. Sounds great. But that's really it. Wouldn't mind. but it, really it's just an internal projection onto- Mm-hmm

probably a way more nuanced situation.

Daniel: I think for comparison, I saw that you were looking at the polyamory subreddit.

Laurel: I started, so I started googling 'cause I was like, is it true that, like, poly people don't spend as much time doing this bullshit? Yeah. So I looked up monogamy critical, to see if there was a subreddit for it.

There's not. the first post that, like, came up in my search from a poly subreddit the title was just, like, basically, "Don't shit talk monogamy." Yeah. Mm-hmm. Nothing is inherently bad about it.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And that was it. It was just like- Yeah ... polyamorous people just being, like, sticking up for monogamy.

Daniel: Wow. And not to say-

Laurel: Wow ... like, I know that there are people out there.

I personally have not met them, and I don't see content they produce. But I know that people out there- Yeah ... exist that are like, "Monogamy is bad."

Nichole: This is, this is what I was trying to figure out. Is that, like, yeah, that has to exist somewhere.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I have never come across it.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole (2): And so it feels a little dis- not to bring it back, again, to conspiracy. But it feels a little cue anon , because it feels like it's this, like- ... like, this mirage of, like, you know, there's a cabal of poly people- No ... who are just there to,

Nichole: like,

Nichole (2): take down monogamy.

Daniel: Wow.

Nichole: But they don't actually exist, but these people feel like warriors in the- Yeah

in the fight against-

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I feel like this is a really dangerous thing. we're joking around about it, but, like, in general, this occurs in so many spaces. Yes. Yes. This is, like, the motivation of the right, it is when the dominant paradigm imagines-

that they are assailed and that they are the mino- minority, and that they are going to be taken over by what is actually a subculture or a minority- Yeah

a racial minority. And they get into this weird inverted reality thing. 'Cause Polyamory is not a dominant paradigm.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Immigrants are not a majority of our country.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Trans people do not have any power and they are not seeking special power.

Laurel: And they're not gonna suddenly be powerful because they were allowed to use a restroom that corresponds with their gender identity.

Daniel: Exactly.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: this is an interesting thing, 'cause I find myself wrestling with this at times, and I think part of it is, my internalized, oppression Olympic stuff that happens in my head where, like, I see some, like, really anti-poly, content or negativity- Yeah

and I'm like, " That's bullshit and that sucks." people feel very okay with it right now. it is very socially acceptable- Yep.

Nichole: Yeah ...

Laurel: to, to say very, like, prejudiced and bigoted things about polyamorous people.

Daniel: Even the so-called counterculture comedians make it a fucking meal ticket.

Laurel: yes. gay people make fun of it.

Straight people make fun of it. People of every race and ethnicity make fun of it. It is just okay.

well, right now it's not, like, really impacting my life, in large part because I live in Portland, Oregon.

There are people here who would never, be caught dead saying the same kinds of things about other minority groups.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: But they will freely and fragrantly, flag- flagrantly- Fragrantly ...

Daniel: fragrantly

Laurel: flagrantly- I can smell that You can smell it, say those kind of things about poly people, and in 20 years maybe that will be embarrassing for them.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: I don't know.

Nichole: Okay, so maybe it was naive of me to say that I don't give a shit about what these people are saying.

Laurel: No, I don't think so, too, 'cause I, What I'm saying is when I see those things, I think that's dangerous, and I think, "Oh, well, I'm not in danger, so I should shut the fuck up about it.

I'm not trans. I'm not an immigrant right now." I'm not a person of color. it's not time to raise the flag on this." Yeah. But the flag will be raised after it's too late.

Nichole: Well, this is the thing, is that, when we worked with, the organization for poly and ethically non-monogamous people-

Laurel: Yeah

Nichole: we talked about how, We should be organizing in a way because we just happen to be like, I mean, polyamorous people are just naturally organized. Um, and we can start to organize amongst ourselves so that we can stick up for other- Yes ... groups, right? Yes. And lest we forget, the people who are actually practicing polyamory-

Laurel: Mm-hmm

Nichole: it is a majority non-white. Yeah. It's lower income.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Like, that- Mm-hmm ... has been proven with data.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I do think that we have an opportunity, and I don't think that it's being a keyboard warrior.

Laurel: No. God, no.

Daniel: Well, I have something that we can do.

Laurel: Yeah?

Daniel: we were recently reached out to by the executive director-

of Open, the new executive director, Jessa Gabriel.

And they invited us to become endorsers on the non-monogamy and polyamory week of visibility- Oh. Ooh ... that is coming up soon. And I've already signed us up. I didn't, reach consensus in the manner of the-

Laurel: Preservation Alliance.

Daniel: Yeah. I didn't, I didn't reach Preservation Alliance consensus.

Laurel: We'll work on it.

Nichole: I really do wanna stand in a circle- Really?

Daniel: Yeah ...

Nichole: and like hum together.

Laurel: And resonate.

Daniel: Yeah. So this week of visibility is coming up. It's gonna be July 6th through the 12th.

And you can go to weekofvisibility.com-

You can donate. You can see how you can get involved. You can, be an endorsing entity like we are. You can be a sponsor if you have money, if you haven't just been laid off.

Laurel: Mm.

Daniel: I know that it seems like, polyamorous people, you know, are not the most, attacked group in the country right now, but hey, we're waiting in line.

Nichole: And like we've talked about, I mean, we do have to organize amongst ourselves in order to be able to show up for other people.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: There's no funny way to end this.