Laurel: Oh, no. Everybody's got appendicitis

Nichole: What?

Daniel: Is it going around?

Laurel: Apparently. I think it started with you.

Daniel: Hey, when I have a mysterious pain in a quadrant of my body where there are organs, I just assume it is that organ failing.

Laurel: But there are multiple organs there.

Daniel: Name one.

Laurel: Your lower intestine.

Daniel: O- okay. Well, I know that's failing.

Laurel (2): Daniel just went, "Ow," and then was like, "I think I have a little something in my appendicitis."

Nichole: In m- in my existing appendicitis.

Laurel: Uh-huh. And then he amended and said it was a little appendicitis.

Nichole: So you still have your appendix?

Daniel: Yeah. Do you- Do

Nichole: you still, do you still have your appendix? Yeah.

Daniel: Do you not have your appendix?

Nichole: I have my appendix.

Daniel: Okay. Now that we've got that straight.

Nichole: No, I had two friends in high school who both had appendicitis at one point-

Laurel: And

Nichole: got it removed?

and had to get their appendices removed.

Laurel: What, what does it do?

Daniel: I mean, it's the only way that you can look up all the other parts of your body. Oh my God.

Laurel: Was this all just, like, a long joke to you? No. You didn't- No ... even have a pain in your side area.

You just knew at some point I would ask, "What does it even do?" "What have you done for me lately?"

Nichole: Have you done for me lately? Speaking of doing things...

Daniel: That was the most open-ended- ... segue possible. You could go absolutely anywhere.

Nichole: Do you guys have a role for me in your wedding yet?

Daniel: Yeah. We were, we, we conspired last night.

Conspired.

Nichole: Okay. 'Cause people keep asking me, "Oh, what's your role in the wedding?" And I'm like, "I don't know." "I don't know that I have one."

Laurel: We didn't give anybody- But- ... roles in the wedding-

Daniel: we were thinking that you give Laurel away.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel (2): And Laurel's partner, Sean gives me away.

Nichole: Oh.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I like that.

Laurel: Right? Yeah,

Nichole: that's great.

Laurel: Okay. Yeah. All right.

Nichole: I'm into that.

Daniel: We're gonna just blow people's minds. Sean's

Laurel: gonna find out when they listen to this podcast.

Daniel (2): You mean Sean is gonna find out when their partner Anka listens to the podcast- Yeah. ... and tells Sean, and Sean is gonna, is gonna text you and be like, "Why didn't you tell me- -I was giving you away?"

Nichole: What the fuck am I gonna wear?

Daniel: Leopard?

Nichole: That's a safe assumption.

Daniel: Not real leopard. Just a leopard.

Nichole: What if I rode a leopard down the aisle? But I make Laurel walk behind me somehow.

Daniel: brides are always worried about people, like, stealing their thunder or their spotlight.

Yeah. That would be a flex. Yeah.

Laurel: I rented a leopard for the occasion.

Daniel: Where did you-

Nichole: I'm gonna ride it sidesaddle.

Daniel: And naked.

Nichole: Yeah, duh.

Daniel: La- Lady Godiva.

Nichole: On a leopard

Daniel: Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour.

Laurel: I'm Laurel.

Nichole: I'm Nicole.

Daniel: I'm Daniel

Laurel: I thought I... Nope. Mm. Are

Daniel: you trying to fart? tr- oh. Trying to burp?

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Okay.

Laurel: That was it.

Daniel: How was it?

Laurel: Tastes like Coca-Cola.

Daniel: Please don't.

Nichole: a friend of mine the other day was telling me that she thinks that the limerence in her relationship is over-

Laurel: Mm-hmm ...

Nichole: because the guy that she's dating, they were sitting next to each other on the couch, and he was chewing. And it's not that she could hear him chew- Mm-hmm ... it's that she decided that he chewed too enthusiastically.

Daniel: He was enjoying his food too much?

Nichole: I don't know that he was enjoy- Like, imagine mouth closed, and just, yeah, just, like, flexing the jaw up and down in an over-exaggerated manner.

Laurel: Maybe, his face was too buff, you know? Mm-hmm. And, and she could see all the muscles, whereas, you know, if you got a good layer of, like, cheek fat.

Daniel: Maybe he was actually one of those little, rubber finger puppet things, and she had just been operating him the whole time, and she'd finally realized that she was in, like, a- ... a, a hallucinatory state and dating her, rubber finger puppet.

Nichole: So you think that his jaw is too swole-

Laurel: Uh-huh ...

Nichole: and you think he's a finger puppet.

Daniel: Yes.

Nichole: All right. I guess I'll inquire and report back on

Laurel: that. Could be a very swole finger puppet. Maybe her fingers are too swole.

Nichole: I'll find out.

Laurel: Or the limerence is over.

Daniel: Did she break up with him?

Nichole: No.

Daniel: No. Okay, good. Good, 'cause that would be maybe unreasonable.

Laurel: Is she gonna tell him?

Nichole: Well, that's the thing. You can't really tell somebody, 'cause it's not that you can hear them, and it's It's just the way that they are. Like, you- Maybe- How do you tell somebody- Maybe he's been-

you chew too over-exaggeratedly? That says more about you when you say it,

Daniel: too. Like, appar- I think so, yeah ... apparently she's got some self-awareness, because, "You chew too enthusiastically," just makes you sound like a nut.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: That is fair, but to play devil's advocate- ... what if he's been putting on a show this whole time because a partner once told him he didn't chew enthusiastically enough?

Daniel: Ha. Oh, my God. He's like, "This

Nichole: is the way to keep a

Laurel: lady." Yeah.

Daniel: Is he, like, ma- locking eye contact- And he was- ... and just chewing, like, with everything- He's like, "I, this could be your pussy. Mm." I

Laurel: don't want my pussy chewed on. Chew your... Ah, ah. Anyways, yeah. You s- Maybe it would be a huge- You say that

Daniel: now

Laurel: And I will say it tomorrow as

Nichole: well.

Laurel: I'm saying he might be, like, hugely relieved to hear this news

Nichole: that Calvin- That's a very, that's a very generous assumption.

Laurel: It's the devil's assumption.

Nichole: Oh, right, right, right, right, right,

Daniel: right. To play devil's assumption.

Nichole: I'm gonna say that now- Yes ... like, at work, and just act like it's actually a thing. To play devil's assumption.

Daniel: Oh, you know what?

I wanna start off with a little, bon mot.

Nichole: God, what?

Daniel: Okay, it's not actually a bon mot. It's an aperçu.

Nichole: Choose, choose a pronunciation. It's either bon mot-

Daniel: Bon me. To start off with a little bon me. I want to put out a real quick poly pyramid scheme-

Laurel: Uh-huh.

Nichole: Okay ...

Daniel: for more reviews.

Laurel: Mm, yeah.

Nichole: Mm.

Daniel: I rely on the five-star written reviews for my dopamine, otherwise- Mm ... I just, gradually spiral into deeper and deeper depression. So Stu-berts, if you have a podcatcher that allows written reviews, get in there. Say a little something about us. Apple Podcasts is the most common one. You know, we've got all these international Stu-berts, you know, in different places too.

We only have one review outside of the United States-

Nichole: Oh ...

Daniel: right now. Whoa,

Laurel: whoa.

Daniel: And that's Socktopus Jack. Aw.

Nichole: And remember, Stu-arts, if you give a five-star review and a written review, and you get four other people to write reviews and leave five-star reviews-

Daniel: Mm-hmm ...

Nichole: and you send us photographic evidence of it, I may or may not send you a semi-nude.

Laurel: I feel like this is the easiest thing to achieve in even a small polycule, Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

if your partner really loves you, if your other partner really loves you, if their metas really, if your metas really love you, they will all do it, and they will all send you screencaps, and then you will get a semi-nude of Nicole.

Daniel: Especially if you phrase it like, " If you really love me."

Laurel: If you really love me. If you really support me in this non-monogamous journey- You

Daniel: have to support my favorite podcast. So yeah, you know, Apple's not the only one. I think Podchaser, a few others- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm ... allow for written reviews. Even if you can't do a written review on whatever backwater podcatcher you're using- Wow ... you know, just throw a five star in there, right?

You know. Throw a

Laurel: five star in there.

Nichole: Yeah, it just doesn't count for Semi-Nude accumulation.

Daniel: Now, I think previously it was five additional reviews, but now you're saying that they only need to get four because- Oh ... their review counts as five. I think I like this lowering of the, of the barrier of entry.

Nichole: All right, I'll go with it.

Laurel: You can't take it back now. It's recorded. There's

Nichole: no possible way to edit this.

Laurel: No- We're

Nichole: live to tape ...

Laurel: no possible way.

Also, okay, if you, if you can't get on a podcatcher that lets you l- uh, leave written reviews, I recommend talking about us on Reddit. Ooh. Oh. In a good, good way,

Nichole: We have our subreddit R Polyamature Hour.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: But spread the word to other corners of Reddit.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Get into that R Polyamory. Get into that R Monogamy and see- What? ... what people do. You

Daniel: know, get into completely unrelated, subreddits, like the subreddit around, you know, the new Dr. Pepper flavors or whatever, you know. Yes. Somebody's like, "What do you think of the new Coconut Dr.

Pepper?" And you're like, "Have you heard of Polyamature Hour?"

Nichole: They probably have an opinion. It's, it's disgusting.

Daniel: Now, I, I bring this up, this is my, my secret way to try and get into Jesse Thorne's head, because Jesse Thorne was posting about the Dr. Pepper flavor coconut- I see, I see ... Dr. Pepper. So

Nichole: it does exist. Does he

Laurel: like

Daniel: it?

It does exist. I

Nichole: hate it.

Daniel: he hated it at the beginning, and then it was, like, starting to grow on him. Was it, like, physically growing inside of him?

A coconut, and then he has a little coconut baby.

Aw. And if you knock on his belly, it...

So there's that.

Laurel: Yeah. Do some things.

Nichole: Thank you.

Laurel: Thanks.

Nichole: Can we talk about Murderbot?

Daniel: Yeah, let's talk about Murderbot-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Daniel: for our recurring segment

Laurel: Is This Poly? The segment where we take pieces of media and ask the question, is this poly? Murderbot. Murderbot.

Nichole: Dun,

Daniel: dun, dun, dun, dun.

Nichole: Murderbot.

Laurel (2): So this is the second half of Murderbot. See our episode "Urine Luck" from, I don't know, a few weeks ago for the first half of Murderbot that we discussed.

Daniel: I'll throw a flashback of our- Perfect ... description of just the basic plot of Murderbot.

Nichole: Great. Great, great, great.

Daniel: So yeah, this is the second half of the season, another-

Laurel: Season one, yeah ...

Daniel: four episodes. Mm-hmm. Now Nicole, you were like, " Ugh, there's only one poly moment in the second half of the season." I wanna- One

Nichole: and a half.

Daniel: One and a half. I wanna hear about first the obvious poly moment, right?

Nichole: Yeah, let's talk about the obvious poly moment. So Pinley, Arata, and Rati have a throuple. they have a contract going, and over the course of the episodes you can kind of see some erosions there, right?

Yeah. '

Daniel: Cause Rati's a moron.

Nichole: Y- yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. He's a

Nichole: cute moron.

Daniel: He's a cute moron.

Nichole: Um-

Laurel: Yeah

Daniel: He's a himbo.

Nichole: Yes. Yeah. He is. Yeah, he's a Whatever.

Daniel: So Pinley and Arata first are also planning on, like, maybe breaking up with, Rati,

Nichole: and it comes to a head, the throuple, like Rati sits down Arata and

and says, "Hey, I don't think this is working."

His reason is, " And of course Arata thinks that it's her. Mm-hmm. You know? And- Turns out and Pin Lee is kind of surprised.

Daniel: And then Murderbot really was the only one who called it in the first half- Yeah ... of the season. Yeah. Like, nobody else was aware of this, but he is like, "Oh, his fucking sex gland smell," or whatever, when he's around him.

Nichole: Uh-huh.

Laurel: His sex gland smell. Yeah. Oh, gosh. I think it was, like, his heart rate or something.

Nichole: Yeah. I mean- And, like, his pupils dilated or

Laurel: whatever. Yeah.

Daniel: Isn't the heart the biggest sex gland of them all?

Nichole: The word glance, that's what's really

Laurel: getting me. That's the problem.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Well, excuse me, isn't the heart the biggest love muscle?

Laurel: Ew. Love muscle. I thought you were gonna go with sex organ, but-

Nichole: Anyways, that's the most obvious poly moment.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. leading up to that moment, you see a lot of moments where Rati is kind of like enthusiastically approaching the other two, or like trying to like, kind of plan things out with them, and they're both like, "Uh," like, "This is annoying," or like, "You're in our way." Like, you see like signs of that, of like-

Nichole: Yeah

Laurel: like Rati being the outsider in their relationship before.

Daniel: And I think a lot of that has to do with them working together, 'cause most of it's Rati coming up to them and having like some kind of bonkers plan, Like, they're coming to realize that he's a moron, right?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: I think at one point he even asks Pin Lee how they feel about kids.

Laurel: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

And they're like, "We're in the middle of like trying to survive."

Yeah.

Nichole: Ugh. So what do you think were the other poly moments that might not have been as obvious?

Daniel: Okay, so I just wanted to point out h- one, that there seems to be some kind of chemistry between almost everybody in this, or desire at least.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: So Gorathin is in love with Mensa, then Pin Lee expresses attraction to Mensa, this really is like a space polycule.

Mm-hmm. Like, like even if the r- the connections aren't romantic-

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm ...

Daniel: which I like, I don't think that like, um, Mensa has romantic feelings for Gorathin- Uh-huh ... for instance, It is a familial relationship. It is not just a, a working relationship. The, whether it's romantic, whether it's, like, deep platonic friendship love, all of these people are entangled- Yeah

in certain ways. And the other way that I think really shows up is in the relationship between, Murderbot and Garafin.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: for the first whole half of the season, really three-quarters of the season, really up until the last couple episodes, I'll try not to give away details, they are at odds.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: You know? Garafin is suspicious constantly of Murderbot, but you also start to pick up that they are, of all the characters here, the most like each other.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah, and there always feels like a sexual tension between them.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Mm.

Daniel: I kinda, I kinda picked up on that too.

Laurel: Like-

Daniel: Yeah ...

Laurel: like, when Garafin, I think this is in the first half of the season, like, appro- like, approaches Murderbot- Yeah

about, like, the whole eye contact thing- Yeah ... and stuff, Like, I had a moment where- Yeah ... I was just like

Are they gonna kiss?"

Nichole: I did not pick up on this- ... at all. I was just hyper-focused on the, autistic- ... expressions

Daniel: Yeah. It's a certain kind of tension, right? And then in the end, like, they end up, you know, you could just guess this by the way that most stories work, you know, they end up having the strongest connection in a very sci-fi way out of anybody there.

if there's anybody that, like, Murderbot is exchanging, like, a bond- Yeah. Mm-hmm ... or love with- Mm-hmm ... it's, it's Garafin

Laurel: They basically mind meld with each other-

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: on multiple occasions.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. So they like literally share a connection- Yeah ... and like memories and stuff. Yeah. And like what Grathan does at the end to preserve Murderbot's identity-

Daniel: Yep

Laurel: like at big risk to himself.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: it's very intimate mind meldy kind

Nichole: of. But that's also like a very white knight romantic overture, right?

Laurel: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Nichole: Murderbot and, and Grathan are not in the same room when this is happening.

Laurel: Right.

Nichole: Right? So like you don't see like the...

I'm- it's not a, "I'm gonna save this damsel in distress," but it is like-

Laurel: Yeah, yeah ...

Nichole: I'm gonna put myself at personal risk in order to save this person.

Daniel: Yeah, I'm not gonna say necessarily that it's a gesture of, um, necessarily romantic or sexual love, but it is absolutely a gesture of love.

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And, it is exactly what McCoy did for Spock-

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Mm ...

Daniel: in Star Trek II and Star Trek III. Yeah. You carry the katra, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

okay, I guess we are, we're spoiling it all. So if you do want the very end of Murder Bot season one saved for you, just fast-forward, um, 30 seconds.

Nichole: That's generous. Um- I feel like we're long-winded.

Daniel: Okay, fast-forward 30 seconds if we're still talking about it. Keep going. Fast-forward another 30 seconds.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: At the end, they rescue Murder Bot, He's back in action, he can, you know, uh, make pottery or, you know, become a canter. Who knows?

Daniel (2): And he is up in the middle of the night, and also Gurathin is up in the middle of the night, and, they have a, you know, this kind of intimate exchange, And then Gurathin like knows-

Nichole: Mm-hmm ...

Daniel: what he is saying is, "I need to actually leave and find my own way, and I can't go with you."

so this part also felt a little poly to me. Murderbot has had his love awakened.

Mm-hmm. Like, he's feeling more human emotions at this point, and he decides to become basically the solo poly He's got this invitation to this polycule to be part of their family.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel (2): And he instead becomes a free agent and travels the galaxy.

Laurel: he does a little voiceover, as he's want to do throughout the series, about how and so he's just, like, having this moment where it's, he's like, " I've never been free."

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yeah. Um, and so I need to explore that even if these people are safe.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: There's no way that this was not written by a poly person who was-

Nichole: Well, that's why I'm gonna read All Systems Red by Martha Wells. Yeah. I really wanna know if there's poly representation in there. and I also think that there are poly people in the writer's room, just because, like- Yeah

some of it was so subtle.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: I don't know if we're gonna see the Preservation Alliance in sec- in season two. Yeah. I don't know if the poly thread continues with it to season two.

Daniel: Yeah, me neither.

Nichole: And I really wanted to see Planet Burning Man. Yeah.

Daniel: Well, you know, babe, it's coming up.

We can take you. Ooh. We can take you to their outpost here on Earth.

Nichole: No, see- ... s- when you watch it on a TV, you're safe at home- ... without the buckets of mud and shit flowing down onto you.

Daniel: Wow.

Nichole: Yeah. No, thank you. Wow. Wow. Ooh.

Daniel: River of shit

Laurel: That's all. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna follow up on that.

Nichole: So is this poly?

Laurel: Yeah, I still think it's poly. I think it was Polly before, and it's Polly now.

Nichole: I agree. It's Polly.

Daniel: It's Polly. Polly Bot.

Laurel: Polly Bot.

Nichole: Aw. He wouldn't like that.

Laurel: No, he wouldn't. He

Daniel: would hate

Nichole: it. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: We're not his favorite humans. We cannot name him.

Laurel: No.

All right. What's next?

Nichole: I think we have an Ask the Amateurs.

Laurel: Ask the Amateurs. Ba

Daniel: dum, ba dum, bum bum.

Nichole: we received this question in our inbox. You can submit a question to us, , by emailing us at polyamateurhour@gmail.com.

You can go to our website, Polyamateur Hour, and submit a question anonymously via our form. You can also DM us on Blue Sky and Instagram.

All right. " Hey there. I just realized I have a question. Well, maybe more of a topic for discussion. How do you approach financial entanglement with partners? What are some methods you've seen, used, or heard about for making this topic feel equitable versus everything needing to be exactly equal? What are some ways to work through challenging feelings related to money spent on one partner versus another?"

Okay, so that's more than a question, but hopefully something interesting to discuss. if it's helpful, here's my take on this with a nesting partner where our finances are very entangled. We pay ourselves first, giving ourselves the same amount of money per paycheck. She gets paid bi-weekly, and I semi-monthly, so this aligns with our differing spending needs to feel equitable without needing to be equal.

This money is intended to give each of us independence and separation on our personal expenses. Smooches, Nate.

Daniel: Smooches right back at you, Nate. Smooch, smooch,

Well, this is just a whole nice can of worms shit show for us- at the moment, and top of mind- Excuse

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause now we're gonna have to discuss how we support Daniel for the rest of our lives.

That's

Daniel: right.

Nichole: Oh, my

Laurel: God.

Daniel: it was only a matter of time. My part, I feel like I, I've stumbled through this. I kind of wish that we, all of us early on had had some kind of like f- like poly financial counselor who could like discuss the particular like challenges and ways in which we could do this.

One real reason why I feel like I've stumbled is because I've been very bad with money. Mm-hmm. Like, mostly me and Nicole's finances are pretty separate. Yeah. Like, I mean, I don't go into debt, you know, drastically. Like, I'm not like reckless, but like I should have saved far more f- from my very remunerative job than I did.

That made me glad that our finances were separate to a certain extent, and also maybe wondering what it would've been like if they would've been more enmeshed and you would've forced me to take care of my money more.

Nichole: Mm.

Mm. So all those times- ... I asked you to please talk to Noriel, our financial advisor, and you kept saying, "I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it," and you didn't, I should have been more forceful?

Daniel: I don't think that it's Noriel who is going to fix everything. I think it's more about me not being as fancy of a man about town.

Nichole: I think it's six and one half dozen in the other. Money is energy, There's a lot of emotion attached to money. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of, I think psychological turmoil.

There's a lot of shame. There's a lot of guilt. There's a lot of pride. Yeah. Like, there is a shit ton of stuff that comes with money. Personally, I mean, our finances are entangled to an extent-

Daniel: Yes ...

Nichole: in that, like, we have a joint account. Yeah. We tend to, like, split things, but that's because we nest with each other.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: But our assets are very separate. True. I, I own my own property. I have my own, 401. I have my own, uh, money market account, CD account- Mm-hmm

Roth IRA, like all this shit that I put money into every single week-

Daniel: Yeah ...

Nichole: out of fear, and out of just, like, hyper-planning.

Daniel: And I put my money into The Scotch Lodge, my favorite bar. Um-

Nichole: Yes. We call that local investment.

Daniel: Well, at the same time, like, you know, me and you, Laurel, our relationship around money has not been entangled at all yet.

Laurel: Correct.

Daniel: and you've been very, tentative about me spending money on you in various ways because of, until recently, the income imbalance.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah. I mean, during my mostly monogamous marriage, money was something we never argued about. Like, that was, like, kind of a non-issue, and I think some of that just has to do with, like, my attitude around money and finance, and that, like, my ex and I had pretty, like, similar values around it, I guess, or goals in mind.

after we divorced, one, like, splitting our, like, finances was very, like, simple and easy- Yeah. Mm-hmm ... for us to agree on. but I, like, my thought since then has always been, like, yeah, it's just easier to keep things as separate as you can.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: because I don't desire that entanglement, and I think that I was rather lucky in having a partner for a long time whose, like, values and ideas on it, like, so closely align mine, with mine, and we didn't have to, argue about it.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. and that it gets more complex with more partners, and, to me, generally seems like a place where autonomy is important because, it so easily becomes a trap. in the sense of, like, having power.

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: And creating power between people.

and so, like, I've had several situations where, like, I've lived with partners, and besides, like, you know, paying for the home, we didn't really, like, share finances at all beyond that.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: and oftentimes the way that we split the home and associated bills were generally based on, like, proportion of income.

Daniel: Yep.

Laurel: so if one person made up a quarter of the household income, they were only paying a quarter of the rent slash utilities.

Daniel: Which is very equitable- Yes ... um, and not equal. Like, that's- Yeah ... that's a, a prime example of, like, equity over equality.

Nichole: And that is what you and I did for quite a while.

Daniel: Yes. I was paying more on-

Nichole: Yeah

on everything. 'Cause I was making... When we first got together- Yeah ... when we first got this house, I was making $25,000 a year. Like-

Daniel: Well, I also put a lot more into the house in general, which has been a, a lot of money over the years, and been paying off the, HELOC myself, so I'm not, like... It's not like I'm just been throwing all the money to my favorite fancy bars-

and my fancy man clothing store.

Nichole: no one said that.

Daniel: You said it with your eyes. You were yelling with your eyes.

Laurel: Yelling with your eyes.

Nichole: No, I just think that it's, when it comes to entangled finances and two people that have maybe disparate views about what money is and how to spend it,

Daniel: Oh, I thought it was just, like, tokens for cocaine.

Nichole: Cokens? Cokens.

Daniel: Cokens.

Laurel: Cokens.

Nichole: I th- I do think that there is a middle ground of, like, it's spending habits and it's saving habits, right?

It's both.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: I also, I agree, Laurel. Like, I am very happy to keep my assets and my money separate. It's not like a flight plan, but you know- Mm-hmm ... I just, I do, There are plenty of situations that I have seen where, not to say, like, this is our future, but there are people who cannot leave their partners because financially they cannot afford to, right?

Mm-hmm. and I think that's also something that's always scared me.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: so I make a lot of these decisions out of fear.

Daniel: Fear is a healthy emotion in certain, you know-

Nichole: Y- yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that, like, as long as it doesn't dictate your every move and take over your life, but, um-

I am curious, like, there's a law firm that I want to, work with who will do a trust, a living will, and, um, housing contracts with the three of us-

Daniel: Mm-hmm ...

Nichole: for, like, a flat fee.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: and we will have to entangle some of our finances

Laurel: Mm-hmm

Nichole: Right? Um, and we definitely need to keep them separate.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I think it's a matter of how, like, like logistically how we organize, like holding an asset together and how that appreciates and what kind of, what kind of money is put into it in terms of like, if/when we buy a place, like what's going in as a down payment?

What is being paid off within like mortgage and escrow? Mm-hmm. And then what work is being put into the house over time. Yeah. Um, so all of those things need to be like factored in. And then, like in light of being laid off recently, it's like what h- what are our contingencies when, if somebody becomes unable to pay whatever- Yes

their agreed upon share-

Nichole: Yes ...

Laurel: of the mortgage is. how we handle that thing, and then like how we would handle it if we were, to sell the asset- Yeah ... at a certain point in time. like I know you guys have like a joint bank account for like household stuff.

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: Yep. Um, and like groceries and that kind of stuff, which is something that like I hadn't like done in the past.

Like, it was just sort of, we have our own groceries and sometimes it's like, "Oh, do you want some of this?" Or like, "If I made this thing, would you want some of it?" Mm-hmm. loose, but also because, we weren't eating together all that often.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Laurel: And I think, like, because all of us were like, had our own dates or going on, like, different dates often- Mm-hmm ... it was like our eating schedules didn't align, and maybe none of us really ate at the house all that often. Which I think would- Yeah ... would be a little bit different between the three of us. I

Nichole: think, I think it would too.

Laurel: Yeah. And there were certain things, like in every single nesting relationship I've had since Harry Nevada, I have made more money- Mm ... than my other partners. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so I just bought the household stuff.

that was just kind of a, I guess a bonus on top for living with me.

You never had to pay for toilet paper or paper towels or whatever. Um-

Daniel: And it's interesting, like for our entire relationship, and also me and you, Nicole, I've made more than both of you the entire time.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: And-

Nichole: Like both of us combined.

Daniel: But I also was like, the one piece of like heteronormative, like, chivalry, which actually has to do with horses I guess.

Nichole: Yeah. Yeah.

Daniel: Is that I am the taker outer for the most part. Like, I am the one who is like, " we're going out. Let's go out." and doing it a l- probably a little too often. Also going on new dates with new people, and also being the treater in those. I'm not going Dutch- Mm-hmm ... on those.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Um, other, you know, partners. so, it is interesting to me now to be suddenly have that, that reversal. Mm-hmm. Mm. And that I'm not in a position, you know, if I wanna go out I'm now the happy hour hunter,

Laurel: Yeah, I think that's the other part of it too in terms of like, I think when people talk about equity when like going on or spending money on dates, there's like two parts of it. One part is, the person you're going on a date with. Yeah. Like, if they can't afford the dates you wanna go on, I think usually-

Daniel: Yeah

Laurel: if you really wanna go on them, then you're gonna pay- Yeah ... for the date.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: Um, and then the other end of that I think is most often happens with people who are, already financially enmeshed.

And usually then decide to open up their relationship and then suddenly realize their spouse is spending money on other people- Mm

and hadn't thought about it- Yeah ... and had that conversation before. I think it's more rare for people to already be polyamorous-

Nichole: Uh-huh ...

Laurel: become financially en- enmeshed and not have already thought about this little aspect of it.

Nichole: Totally.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Totally. I mean, you might have had this experience with your ex-husband, but like Daniel and I certainly have not had this experience of like I, I don't think I ever called out like, "You're spending too much money on other people."

Like that's- Right. Yeah. ... not something that I would've ever said. And I think also just like for some reason I think of financial enmeshment as like a step on the escalator.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: You know?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: And so it feels very weighty and s- and like real, like your, your relationship is real now because you have a joint bank account.

Laurel: Right.

Nichole: I don't know if that's real or not. I don't know, like is it? Right. Or is it just practical?

Laurel: I think a lot of people look at it as like a step on the escalator. it's hard for me to think about 'cause unless there's like a practical purpose of like, in our case the three of us all contributing, you know, whatever, 200 bucks a month to a joint account for household expenses or whatever.

Like, that's a very obvious practical thing.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: But beyond that I'm like, why would we want to enmesh our finances? Like why, unless, it is becoming an imbalanced thing where it's like we're doing it so I can support you or you can support me financially and then things get like-

Nichole: We're gonna ha- I mean, we're gonna have to try and figure this out- Yeah

because we also do want a trust.

And this is all shit we can talk about with a lawyer.

Daniel: well why not just talk about it with our many Stewberts? there are more things than just simply household things that I think we're gonna have to think about- Yeah

as far as- Oh, I don't think so ... enmeshment. So as you said, like the house, like as far as like home improvement, like the house fund, we have to figure out like how that works. We're also gonna probably be enmeshed I think around the podcast longterm, right? So what are the expenses for the podcast? How do we all contribute in a way that's equitable, not necessarily equal?

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Um,

Nichole: Cars, dependent on where we live, how many cars do we actually want? Ugh. Do we need- None of them. Yeah, I know. Like, that's an asset outside of the house.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: You know? And something that we potentially share custody of.

Laurel: Right. Mm-hmm. part of the reason that I like some autonomy or like separation in finances is because even if I don't like some of your choices, I don't have to care about them-

Daniel: Mm

Laurel: in a sense. Yeah.

Daniel: Mm.

Laurel: and so how you spend your money on one, like I can just be like, "Okay, whatever, like, that's up to you."

and so, like, so there's a certain amount of relief from building any kind of like resentment-

Nichole: Mm-hmm ...

Laurel: toward things like that, as long as there's plans for taking care of all of the mutual expenses. Yeah. Um, then it's sort of like, oh, okay, if, if what we're building together is, is funded and safe, then I don't have to give a shit what you're doing with the rest of it.

Daniel: Cool. Hang gliding lessons.

Laurel: You would hate that. He

Nichole: would hate that.

Daniel: Yeah, I wouldn't actually use them. I'd just buy the lessons and

then- All right. Thank you, Stuart. Because now we have to go think long and hard.

Nichole: Thank you for getting Daniel to put on a recording that he should have saved more money.

Daniel: I even put that on a recording.

Nichole: What recording?

Daniel: It was one of these recordings. Right. You never listen to them.

Nichole: And you did apologize.

Daniel: This-

Nichole: You, you did apologize.

Daniel: I did apologize.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: And I, um, took you out to a really expensive fancy dinner.

Nichole: He, he

Daniel: really did not.

Nichole: He really didn't.

Daniel: That would be the best way to apologize for spending too much money- ... on entertaining.

Nichole: Oops.

Daniel: What's next?

Nichole: next is a Pip Pickle presents Pip Eyup.

Daniel: It's the official segment of Pip Pickle.

A PIP-IOP sounds like, like the PSYOP that P- Pickle undertakes.

Laurel: Ooh.

PIP-IOP is poly in public, invasion of privivacy, the segment where we talk about poly in the wild.

Nichole: It's poly that we come across in our everyday lives, or when we Google polyamory and then click on the news tab on Google.

News tab.

Daniel: So you found us something today, Nicole, right?

Nichole: I did.

Daniel: It's from your favorite magazine, People. People.

Nichole: My favorite magazine with my favorite kind of writing, which is repetitive.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Um, okay. This is from June 30th of this year.

Daniel: Ooh.

Nichole: She felt unhappy in her marriage of 17 years. Her logical solution initially disgusted her husband.

Exclusive.

Daniel: I don't know if you can hear the air quotes, but they're here.

Nichole: So Courtney Boyer, uh, married her husband when she was 22. Yay. And she was raised in a very Christian tradition.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Marry young.

Laurel: Evangelical.

Nichole: Yeah, you save sex for marriage, and sex is a chore, basically.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Breed 'em and feed 'em.

Nichole: Ew. Is that a thing?

Daniel: I know. I just made it up. My brain is a bad place.

Nichole: Yes. and so all was going well until COVID- Mm-hmm ... when apparently the entire world discovered polyamory. Mm-hmm. Um, and her husband moved them, to this small town in Germany, her and her family.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: and then had to go away for work for s- seven months.

Laurel: Mm.

Nichole: so of course, because she's, like, in this tiny German town-

Laurel: Mm-hmm ...

Nichole: doesn't know anybody, naturally she joins a, a football league-

Laurel: Mm,

Nichole: mm, mm ... um, and starts playing with other men. Football.

Soccer.

Daniel: She starts playing with their balls with her feet.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: And they enjoy it.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: hacky sack.

Why did that make me

Laurel: bleh.

Nichole: Um-

so she's playing with all these boys. Mm. And she's like, "Oh, what if I just added somebody to our marriage?" So there's some big leaps that happen here. Yeah. Right? She takes a few months while her husband is away. He comes back, she's gonna have this pivotal conversation with him- Mm-hmm ... about, like, maybe opening up their marriage.

Mm-hmm. " Yeah, so she asked him the question that would alter their relationship forever, "What if we had a threesome?" Next paragraph.

"Though polyamory, the practice of having multiple simultaneous sexual and ro- and romantic partners, was never something she d- was taught in her religious upbringing," blah, blah, blah. Like, the leap from threesome to polyamory- Yeah ... is, like, wild to me.

Daniel: You guys, we should start saying, uh, a complete definition of polyamory every time we use the word.

Every time we talk about

Nichole (2): So she also, she also couches this in how to make the marriage survive.

Laurel: Hmm.

Nichole: She says, "Bowyer knew she loved her husband, knew she wanted to keep their family together, knew that they had many of the same goals, but also knew that she needed to start seeing another partner if their marriage was going to survive."

Laurel: Hmm. "

Nichole: I don't wanna throw the baby out with the bathwater just because this area here isn't getting met," she said.

Laurel: She means the, the literal baby.

Nichole: Um, but it was the logical thing in my mind. I was like, "This is exactly what will save our marriage."

Laurel: Interesting.

Nichole: Very interesting. so apparently they saw a separate therapist. They saw a therapist together. Mm-hmm. And he kind of warmed up to it.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: the big reveal is that she wrote a memoir.

Daniel: She also is a relatively well-known influencer. Like, I've seen her-

Nichole: You've seen her stuff?

Daniel: I've seen her Instagram page before.

Nichole: Okay.

Daniel: And it is the mono/poly couple.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Otherwise known as- Yes ... the Monopoly couple. Hey. And, this is when one partner monopolizes...

No, it's, uh, when- Gets all the pussy for themselves. It's, one partner is polyamorous and one is monogamous. The husband in this case has remained monogamous the whole time, and they built their, like, social media presence, starting with a YouTube, um, then- Mm-hmm ... also on Instagram, around being, like, the mono/poly couple.

Laurel: Mm-hmm

Daniel: I think that's fine. That's fine. But like what interests me about this is like the choice by People magazine. They don't like focus on random poly influencers or poly educators. They choose the mono/poly couple where the woman is dating other men.

Nichole: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Do you remember the article that we also read, I think it was the New York Post, which was basically the same thing?

It was like-

Nichole: Oh, yeah ...

Daniel: the, the husband is fi- you know, he's cool, just- The

Nichole: boyfriend. The boyfriend would stay at home.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. While she goes out and dates other people. these media outlets, they are particularly choosing these because they are sensational for the fucking cuckophobes or whatever out there, who are like, "Oh yeah, polyamory is just for the fucking woman to go out and look at how this man is being humiliated."

And so they did a second article here in- They did ... People Magazine that is specifically about the reaction that they knew that they were going to get in publishing this of people being like, "Oh, you're just making your husband a cuck and you're humiliating him." And that is fucking nutty to me that this is like, a pattern-

Nichole: Yes,

Daniel: you're right

in media Where's our article in People Magazine? Where's the threegle, huh?

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah, where is the threegle, People? Um, yeah, , it's a specific brand of misogyny.

Nichole: you're right. I did not put that together. and this headline of the se- the follow-up article is the one that I came across first.

Daniel: Yes.

Nichole: Because it is, it was published on July 4th. So...

Laurel: Happy birthday, America.

Daniel: Right after 9/11,

Nichole: I had to-

Daniel: Have a threesome?

Nichole: Be a presenter at an awards show for like local theater. And we all had to stand on stage and sing, fuck what is that America song?

Laurel: I believe I can fly

Nichole: What was that we made the audience clap along?

Daniel: No, no, no, no, no, no. I think it, I think it was Stuck in the Closet. It

Nichole: was one of those fucking America songs that I had no fucking clue what the lyrics were.

Daniel: Oh, it- Was it America, Fuck Yeah?

Nichole: I would've known that one.

Laurel: America the Beautiful.

Nichole: Something like that probably.

So many America songs.

Laurel: So many.

Nichole: All right. So the headline for this one, is Polyamorous Woman Addresses Comments that She's Humiliating Husband by Documenting her Dating Experiences, exclusive.

Laurel: It's interesting how people decide that other people are humiliated. Like, you can't decide that somebody else has feelings.

Nichole: Yeah, but the internet decides things all the time like that. So, um, she talks about how, "I was terrified that anybody would find out," Boyer tells People. "I didn't talk about it publicly.

I barely talked about it privately." She was worried about what, how people would see her, and then she said, "But then Boyer, who was a sex and relationship coach..." I think she's now a sex and relationship coach.

Laurel: Yeah, I was so confused about that.

Nichole: Yeah. I mean, I, I'm sure that she's monetizing this following that she has.

Laurel: Yeah, that makes more sense than, like, she's been a sex and relationship coach this whole time.

Nichole: 1,000%. There's no way. especially if she grew up hella Christian. Yeah. No.

Daniel: And then she's been a sex and relationship coach for years, and just all of the sudden she realizes, "I need a threesome."

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. she said, "I realize I can't encourage other people and tell them to be proud of who they are if I can't show up that way."

so she talks about how it was her husband that actually came up with the idea for the YouTube channel.

Laurel: Mm-hmm. '

Daniel: Cause he leads at home.

No, I mean, seriously, Was he like, " Oh my God, we can monetize this. How do we monetize this?"

Laurel: I mean, I feel like that's, like, what evangelical Christians do, is they become, like, internet personalities, and either they start Turning Point USA or they lean into their cuck shit.

Daniel: Mm. So really what you're saying is that they are either secretly cucking or publicly cucking.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. she talks about how it's all about empowering other people to want to be their, their authentic selves. "I want to bust the myth that are associated with sexually empowered women and women who aren't afraid to advocate for their needs or who aren't afraid to be outspoken."

I don't know what the myths around those are.

Laurel: That the whores...

Nichole: Oh, yeah. I mean-

Daniel: I have nothing against this woman, you know, or what she's doing, except the fact that she made the choice to basic- Talk to

Laurel: People Magazine.

Daniel: Exactly. It's like-

Laurel: Yeah ... like,

Daniel: sh- it shows a little bit of a lack of- But you

Laurel: would do it

Daniel: Yeah, but not if that was my relationship, not if I knew that they were using it for a l- like a reverse psychology thing.

Laurel: But if they came to us and were like, "We wanna do an exclusive with Polyamature Hour and The Threegle," of course they wanna do it for some kind of weird, exploitative, misogynistic, sensational thing, but we would still do it.

Daniel: Sure. Sure.

Nichole: And then we would take down the art- Yeah.

Like, we would read the article on the

Laurel: podcast and be like- And be so excited to rip it apart ...

Daniel: I mean, maybe it's just because I have the knowledge now, like I've figured out having seen multiple of these particular articles, that I'm like, it's specifically, like, kind of bad for polyamory to let these media outlets focus on this one particular type of polyamory that really horrifies, the normies.

like they only focus on this.

Laurel (2): Well, originally it w- was just like throuples, and they were usually, like female, male, female throuples, like raising kids.

Like, that used to be the palatable paradigm, and now they've just shifted to like sensationalism. , And I think part of it is truly because we are, like regressing culturally into like s- like hyper-misogyny. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: And so, and everything is fucking clickbait now.

Nichole: Yeah, those other articles wouldn't get the clicks.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: You know?

Daniel: I think it's clickbait specifically for people to hate on polyamory. I think that's what- Oh yeah.

Laurel: Totally ... that's-

Nichole: Well yeah, that's what all the comments are. Yeah. It's literally just, "Gross. How dare you do this to your children? Gross."

Laurel: Somebody ...

Nichole: What about the husband?

Let him talk. Um.

Laurel: Like bullshit like that, right?

Daniel: Blink twice if you-

Nichole: But I mean, I don't know. I feel like I do have some feelings about the whole mono-poly thing. Like-

Laurel: Yeah, I don't get it ...

Nichole: I, I, I think that's my feeling, is that I don't understand it. Yeah. And I guess at least they're out there with like, "We're not a polyamorous couple, we're a mono-poly couple."

Right. And it could just be People Magazine being simplistic about it- Yeah ... and like couching everything within polyamory, including the idea of having a threesome, just a threesome. So, I can't expect too much from People Magazine.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: And I also can't expect too much from, I'm gonna say it, a mommy vlogger.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Like, that's what she's doing here. Like, she... It is, it is capitalizing on her own personal experience, which is fine. People do it. We do it, obviously.

Laurel: Yeah. Raking in that cash.

Daniel: And where's the fucking money?

Laurel: They're sending it to you, Daniel. Go thank them

Daniel: Do I have to be more out , in my cuckiness? Maybe. Can I make money off of this? How can I get cuck for bucks?

Laurel: Cuck for bucks.

Daniel: Cuck for bucks.

Laurel: That's your Only Fans page.

Nichole: That's good.

Yeah, I mean, it... She's, following the very Christian tradition of, exploiting her family for money-

Laurel: Yeah ...

Nichole: on social media.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: And we just chose a medium that was popular 15 years ago, and like-

Laurel: Yeah, we just ma- We're just very bad business people. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah. We're just too late.

Laurel: That's the difference between us and-

Which is ironic, 'cause we're the Jews in this situation.