Nichole: I am just flummoxed as to why we keep making Jurassic Park movies.

Haven't characters learned the lesson from the first one that like, you don't go to Jurassic Park.

Daniel: The other ones are not real Jurassic Parks.

, The watermark that determines whether it's a genuine Jurassic Park is Jeff Goldblum.

Laurel: And if your Jurassic Park doesn't have a Jeff Gold bloom on display in it,

Daniel: send it back.

Nichole: It's an off-brand Jurassic

Laurel: Park. It's an off, yeah.

Nichole: It's a DARS new borrowed.

I'm just saying like, how do we have 14 Jurassic Park movies? Like what is there left to mind in that world?

You go to park, dinosaurs are bad dinosaurs, eat people, we leave park.

Laurel: what's upsetting to me is like dinosaurs are neutral.

And now there's all this like anti dino propaganda. Oh my God.

Daniel: I mean, it's really a problem with the people as well. Like people Why are you so delicious?

Laurel: do we taste like chicken?

Yeah, I agree. There's no reason we should be making more Jurassic Park. Um, it's just like money. Money Goblins. It's money Goblin. Money Goblin.

Nichole: It's the money Goblin.

Laurel: It's the money Goblin gets us every time. I think there's something about like taking something that was beloved for a particular generation and then waiting until they have children of a certain age and then re-releasing a remake of that thing.

Mm-hmm. Uh, God, so that all those schmos bring their kids hoping to re relive their childhood with their children. When it's like, no, you just stay home and you show 'em the VHS

Daniel: Oh my God. They have us acting as agents of capitalism uhhuh in our own homes.

Laurel: Yeah,

Daniel: they're, they're like, sell this to your child.

Laurel: Uhhuh. It's some psyop shit.

Nichole: I don't know that it's us.

Laurel: No, it's, it's you.

Nichole: Oh

Laurel: yeah. Specifically. Yeah. They just miscalculated. 'cause turns out you don't have children

Nichole: do have dogs.

Laurel: Do you have dogs? Can't take the dogs to the movie theater. Watch

Nichole: me.

Daniel: The dogs seem to enjoy, the dogs seem to enjoy almost anything.

Nichole: It's true. They will actively watch the tv.

Laurel: They prefer it if there is a horse or a dog in it, though.

Nichole: Then they get to interact with it.

Daniel: Is that preference? They seem freaked out. They seem like, oh my God, why is there giant dog that lives in the wall?

Nichole: But to Laurel's point, dinosaurs, neutral dogs are probably neutral too.

Daniel: Dogs are positive.

Nichole: That's true.

Daniel: The, the ranking goes human's bad. Dinosaur is neutral. Dogs good.

Nichole: Where are cats in there?

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Cat owner Laurel.

Laurel: I have a complicated relationship with cats.

Nichole: I feel like everybody has a complicated relationship with cats.

Laurel: Yeah. Well some people find it really simple.

Cat is best thing ever. That's a lot of people's relationship with their cats.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: I feel like you're in the cult or you're not.

Laurel: That's what I feel like is weird about me is like, I don't think I'm in the cult.

Nichole: Oh, you just have cat.

Laurel: I have cat. I love Kat. Yeah, he is good, good boy.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

Laurel: I have never sought out Kat on my own.

Kat has come to me.

Nichole: How did Kat come to you?

Daniel: How did Kat become a numberless noun?

Laurel: The original cat that I had, uh, were a product of my ex, so he had cat. Ah,

Nichole: okay. Okay.

Laurel: Um, and so they came along

Daniel: so he. Like basically sexually transmitted cat,

Laurel: sexually transmitted cat to me. Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Then when we no longer had those cat, I was like, no more cat for me.

Don't need more cat.

Nichole: Don't need more cat.

Laurel: Mostly because they poop and pee inside.

Nichole: Inside.

Laurel: I don't like it

Nichole: Apparently that shit, like the literal shit does affect your brain chemistry.

Laurel: Yeah. It makes you, makes you psychotic.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah.

have you noticed that I've been changing, you know, since me and Laurel have been

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Hanging out?

Nichole: Absolutely.

Laurel: Yes. I am affected, but I can still see you diving deeper in the psychosis.

Daniel: Yeah. Is it something like those like nematodes that infect ant brains and turn them into zombies and make them serve the parasites?

Laurel: It's exactly like that.

Daniel: Like the cats are making us serve them through the parasites that they infect us with.

Nichole: I never heard the word nematodes, but I just believe that that's a word. I believe you.

Daniel: Well, now that I know that that's an option, I'm going to say all sorts of made up words with a lot of confidence.

Laurel: It's over now.

Nichole: Where does cats the musical rank?

Laurel: Fucking wow.

Daniel: That's its own ranking.

Laurel: So I watched the New Kaz, the musical.

Nichole: The movie.

Laurel: The movie, okay. Yes. I've never seen the play. Okay. I've never seen it. In the, the, you've never

Nichole: seen it in the theater. You've never seen the VHS that came out in like 1992?

Laurel: Correct.

Nichole: Okay.

Laurel: I watched the new, like Taylor Swift, Uhhuh Ija Elba Katz while I was on acid. Whoa. For the first time. What a sobering event.

Daniel: This is like, like just as far as like facing the, distorted and mutilated face of late stage capitalism. Like

Laurel: Yeah. Well, one, I also, I had no idea what Kaz was.

Nichole: Oh my god,

Laurel: Laura. Yeah. Like I just had no, I had, I assumed it had like a somewhat sensical plot. And

Nichole: you would, you assumed wrong.

Laurel: I assumed very, very wrong.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Do you have any idea of what Katz is now?

Laurel: messy.

Nichole: There is no way. I haven't done this on the pod, so I apologize if I have done this before, but I do have an impression of Harvey Firestein explaining the plot of cats.

Laurel: I think, I think you have done it before. Do it again. Do it again.

Daniel: Do it again.

Nichole: Okay. Okay.

Daniel: But because you're repeating it, we're gonna need a few different takes with different kinds of vibes and emotion. All right. So, first Harvey Firestein really excited about explaining cats.

Nichole: It's about a bunch of cats. One of the cats is very sad.

Daniel: Okay.

Alright. Alright. Now Harvey Firestein himself, incredibly saddened.

Nichole: It's about a bunch of cats. One of the cats. Very sad.

Daniel: Welcome to Poly Amateur Hour.

Laurel: I'm Laurel. I'm Nicole.

Daniel: I'm Daniel. Grump. Pusa face. What is the what? Pusa face. I don't remember any of the names of the cats, but

they're

Nichole: all of Gelical names.

Daniel: Yeah, they're kinda like that, right?

Laurel: They are like that. Yeah.

Daniel: grumble butt finger snakes.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's like a, it's like a sexy circus name.

Nichole: Ramble tush. Slinky bean. the grocery store cat. Oh, there's no Bodega Cat.

Laurel: Oh

Nichole: yeah. In cats.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yeah. It's classist

Laurel: missed opportunity.

Nichole: Well, it was also written and produced by Sir Andrew Lloyd Weber. So the idea that he's been in a bodega is like laughable.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: Yes.

And based on poetry by kind of a proto Nazi,

Nichole: straight up antisemitic.

Daniel: Oh yeah.

Nichole: BS Elliot was not,

Daniel: yeah.

Nichole: It's not great. Yeah. He

Daniel: loves cats. Hates Jews,

Nichole: huh?

Daniel: have never seen Kaz the movie or the musical, and now it is just kind of like a internet meme to me. Like that's the, the, the fidelity of resolution that I have for it in my mind.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: I think it's just like the movie itself was just like, there is no plot. Yeah. Two, they got all of these like, incredibly expensive, incredibly famous people to be in this crazy non plot thing.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Three, a bunch of reels that went out into the theaters had mistakes in them. There's just a bunch of like CGI mistakes and shit. And it was like, was it worth it? Was it worth it?

Laurel: Yeah. Like why, why did it all happen?

Daniel: I'm gonna, I'm gonna get a little meta here. Surprise.

Nichole: Mm.

Daniel: All right. Like, I was just thinking, okay. Like, it's like a meme in my mind. I feel like the resolution of Kaz has been degrading like a jpeg over the century that like, since the

Nichole: clarity of it,

Daniel: since the poetry was originally created.

Right. Uhhuh like I feel like TS Elliot would be absolutely ashamed of the musical Kaz. Yeah. By Andrew Lloyd Weber. And that Andrew Lloyd Weber would be absolutely ashamed of the movie Cats by Taylor Swift.

Nichole: We can ask him. He is alive

Laurel: by, by Taylor Swift.

Nichole: It's all Taylor Swift's doing.

Laurel: Um, yeah. it's like a repeating image. Warhol, each copy of the copy just gets worse And this is why we took postmodernism in college.

.

Daniel: You know what theater does hold up over the years? Poly Propaganda Theater written in the 1930s.

Laurel: Oh yeah. We always

Nichole: talking about Yes. Yes it does.

Laurel: It does. Remember when we went to the Thea this weekend?

Nichole: Yeah. We had an afternoon of culture.

Laurel: Yeah. Oh yeah. It was good. And we saw, um, a Tomago theater design for living

Nichole: by Noel Coward.

Daniel: And now

Laurel: fucking coward.

Daniel: I mean, he could have written something bold with cats in it,

Laurel: but instead he meekly chose the path of three-way love and implied bi sexuality.

Daniel: And today in our salon, we are going to discuss Designed for Love by Noel Coward.

Laurel: Living.

Nichole: Living,

Daniel: designed for Living in Loving, and Laughing by Noel Coward for our segment.

Is this Polly?

Nichole: You got more British.

Daniel: I know. IS It

Nichole: went from transatlantic to more British.

Daniel: It started as like a straight up Katherine Heparin impression. It

Nichole: did, yeah. Yeah. And it was good.

Daniel: For a brief shining moment.

Nichole: anyways,

designed for living,

Daniel: written by Noel Coward in the year of our Lord, 1932. It is a three act play, three to four main characters.

Nichole: Sure,

Daniel: yeah. Yeah.

Depending on how you count. Yeah. Whe whether you count monogamous people or not.

Nichole: I don't see monogamous people, so,

Laurel: yeah. What,

Nichole: where were they?

Daniel: according to this play. They kind of speak in gibberish a little bit like the adults in peanuts, but we'll get to that.

Nichole: Okay.

Daniel: started off in France.

uh, young woman named Gilda

Nichole: mm-hmm.

Daniel: Is living with her lover, a painter named

Otto. If he chokes you, is it auto erotic asphyxiation?

Nichole: If he chokes you, it's auto erotic. Yes.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Yeah. And if he chokes himself, it's auto. Auto.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Erotic. Ex ex ex fixie.

Nichole: Ex fixie. Fixie.

Daniel: It's a fixie. she's living in her bohemian apartment and, her older friend comes by.

Laurel: Yeah. He's like a family friend.

Daniel: Family friend, yeah. Named Earnest.

And Earnest thinks that it is Otto asleep in the next room.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: When in fact she has spent the night with Otto's, dear, dear friend Leo, who has returned from out of town.

And the kind of, , farcical tension of this first scene is all about earnest, thinking that it's Otto in there, and then suddenly Otto showing up.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And then, then both leaving and then revealed, oh, hey, it is

Leo.

Nichole: So the tension is set where, , Gilda is in a committed relationship with Otto.

She's ostensibly, quote unquote cheating on him with Leo, this was the first night they had ever gotten together because at one point Otto and Leo both were vying for Gilda's affection, and Otto, I guess won quote unquote. ,

Daniel: And, and even in the first act, like they keep saying to each other, reiterating, Everybody loves each other.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Yeah. And this is why this ostensible infidelity at the beginning like hurts them all so much. ' So we move into Act two.

Nichole: Leo and Gild are living together in England.

Laurel (2): Gilda, in Each act, I feel like is having some kind of like existential crisis.

Nichole: Yes. That she can't ne necessarily navigate on her own. Because at one point Leo and Gilda are talking and Leo mentions like, Hey, we should get married. And Gilda's like, this whole play is like firmly anti-marriage.

Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Yeah. Anti monogamy.

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: Like the in existential crisis that you're talking about, Laurel?

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Is that auto isn't there? They're like, they keep talking about how it's not the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Without their third, without

Laurel: something them is missing.

Daniel: Yes. Yes.

Laurel: And it is apparent that it's auto

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: They're like a triangle with two corners. That keeps Which is a line.

Nichole: That's a line.

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yep.

Daniel: and then

Otto

Daniel (2): he swoops in. there's moments throughout where it seems like they're almost turning to camera and making speeches

Nichole: Yes.

Daniel: On behalf of polyamory.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel (2): In the second act, it's when

they keep turning to each other and saying, and they repeat the whole kind of, she's cheating farce thing.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Correct.

Daniel: With her spending the night with Otto.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: And then Earnest shows up again. He's, that's, this is his role. He's always just the, uh, the, the judgmental, monogamous person.

Laurel: Otto is sleeping. Leo is still out in away, , Gilda decides she's gonna leave

Daniel: She slips out while Otto is still asleep.

Uhhuh and leaves notes?

Laurel: Yes.

Daniel: For both of them?

Laurel: Yes.

And then leaves, and then Leo returns to find Otto there.

They work through the whole betrayal, not betrayal thing in manic dialogue.

Nichole: Manic dialogue. Yeah. They

Daniel: get totally shitfaced,

Laurel: they do get totally

Nichole: shitfaced.

They do, they get totally shitfaced and, it gets more flirty between them as the scene goes on. they've read the letters that Gilda left and they kind of collapse in on themselves.

And they're just so devastated that Gilda's gone

Daniel: but they do talk about ,

traveling the world together. I feel like it's implied that they're going to be lovers.

Laurel: Reading writings about the play.

It seemed like bisexuality was a theme

Nichole: mm-hmm.

Laurel: That was pulled out and part of why it didn't play in London initially.

Nichole (2): Oh, interesting. okay. So Act three, , Gilda and that old monogamous family friend, Earnest are living in America, in New York City.

At the top of a high rise. And Gilda is bringing, a couple of like friends, acquaintances, to basically come shop the apartment. She's like selling the wares within the apartment.

Daniel: I feel like that was in this whole, the whole suite of ways women made money. Yeah. In like the thirties.

Like it could also be like you can match make, you can decorate people's houses.

Nichole: Yep.

Daniel: Um, yeah.

Nichole: You can work in a shirt factory and try not to die. That's pretty much it.

She has a married couple who are there and a lady who is there Yes. Who is also ostensibly married, I believe. And Leo and Otto show up at this apartment and they are both in tails and cumber buns and they have canes and top hats.

Mm-hmm. you two at dinner were like, maybe we should go as Otto and Leo for Halloween. And I was like, even though. If you dress exactly like them and it's different color suits, people will still think that you're dumb and dumber. They will think that

Daniel: people think that about us when we go out anyway.

Laurel: Oh, was dumb and Dumber. Were they making a direct reference to design for a living?

Nichole: I don't think so.

Laurel: Like if people, if people are like, no, you're just dumb and dumber, we can be like, actually we are what Dumb and Dumber was referencing.

Daniel: I, I think these guys though are smart and smarter because like they are giving to me total mark's brother. Like anarchic energy.

in a way that made me feel like, hey, this is like the vibe and the role which poly amateur our does and should continue to inhabit in our like, interface with the monos normie world.

Right. This kind of chaotic teasing. You know, we shake hands and then throw our thigh into their palm

Laurel: Uhhuh.

Daniel: We, uh, we steal hats , and run around in circles. It's this way of like using the trappings of power, uhhuh against power. They would like do these bowing games and force people to bow and curtsy in all these situations.

They were just pure, like unadulterated, joyful, troll energy.

Nichole: It's obvious, as an observer, as an audience member, that they've been in sync for months,

Laurel: right?

Yes.

Nichole: Right. They've just like, we're gonna go travel the world. We're gonna go have a lot of fun doing it.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: And then we're gonna find Gilda. So they are in this apartment, and then Gilda's like, oh, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna walk my guests out.

You two stay here. I'll be right back. And then she does not come back that night. , We know that Ernest lives in this apartment. Mm-hmm. We haven't seen Ernest yet. Yeah. So it is the next morning, Ernest comes back to the apartment. He finds Leo and Otto are already there wearing his pajamas.

, In this production, Otto was wearing like a shirt that belonged with the pants that Leo was wearing and vice versa. Yeah. It was very cute. Ernest is like, what the fuck are you guys doing here? Like, I don't understand what is happening. And they're basically like, we're here for Gilda.

Laurel: Yeah. Yeah.

Nichole: Like she's been missing from our life.

Our one life. Yeah. The life they now share. Yeah. So Gilda comes back and then is, it is just an unraveling of earnest

Laurel: mm-hmm.

Nichole: And a strengthening of Gilda and Otto and Leo.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: And Earnest is, I think supposed to be the mono sphere and who, who is just like he at the end of like, them, basically like one mark's brothering it to them too. Basically telling him like, uh, Gilda doesn't actually love you, and we know that he doesn't, that she doesn't love you. Yeah. And you know it too.

So this whole marriage is a sham. And then what we're gonna do is so far out of left field because, and you've never experienced and you've never even heard of this shit before.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Um, and earnest is just unraveling

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole (2): And going fucking, and just like can't comprehend to the point that when the character exits, and I don't know if this is in the stage directions or whatever, I don't know if it's in the play.

I don't know. , This production at least had him spouting just like gibberish. Yeah. Just yelling the door gibberish. Just like, like a

car. cartoon . sounded like Tasmanian devil from

Laurel: Oh, yeah.

Nichole: Looney Tunes.

Daniel: the, the controlling force of monogamy according to this play is like just masking like this pure, unadulterated like rage of Tasmanian devil.

Laurel: yeah. Like in cartoons when you can like physically see the character slowly get redder and redder and redder and then the steam comes out of their ears.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel (2): But I think like, what, what is also partially interesting about it is like. Ernest's role in Gilda's life.

Like he was a family friend. We know that he's known Gilda since she was a young girl. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So he's like significantly older than her. , , and then like eventually marries her. , And within that has this very like, idealized , patriarchal image of what a marriage is.

And it is a wealthy, older man with a beautiful young woman who has some intellect and aspiration but can never fully realize it.

Daniel: Yeah. She's on a leash.

Laurel: Yes, for sure. and his growing anger as this is pulled away from him has no actual comprehensible argument to it.

Daniel: Mm-hmm.

Nichole: Yes.

Laurel: And so, and yeah. So he is just so frustrated.

He is just reduced to garbled, mumbling.

Nichole: And I think at one point they even make reference to her not actually being his wife.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: Basically saying you never slept with her, you never consummated the marriage. So it's, this is not an actual marriage.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: They also keep saying, come on man, you're not really that upset.

Like not emotionally to you.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I think that what they're saying is that he's not upset about losing somebody that he loves. Like he's not upset about the relationship.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: He is upset about his status and his situation being disrupted.

Yes. His, his control.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Yeah.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: so he leaves were left with Gilda, Leo, and Otto, and they're all laughing.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: They end with like, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. And they're all laughing and in this production the laughing dies down and then they turn to audience and just kind of stare and then the lights go down.

And I was genuinely expecting Simon and Garfunkle play because this was the ending of the graduate beat for beat. It was the ending of the graduate.

Daniel: And I don't think that that's baked into the play. I think that they're trying to add a kind of an another layer. To it.

Nichole: I think it was a director choice.

Yeah.

Daniel: from what I've read of like fucking Wikipedia summaries at least.

Laurel: Did you read it as anti Polly?

that specific direction At the end

Daniel: I read it as an unwillingness to fully commit to a joyful, happy poly ending. It did seem like a little bit of a pulling of a punch.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: I wanted this to be the theater equivalent of secretary secretary was like the first, , BDSM love story.

So I guess I want kind of wanted that. I wanted my like Me too.

I wanted my romantic comedy ending.

Nichole: Me too.

Daniel: For this.

Laurel: Yeah. I read it as sort of like, okay, the, the dog caught the car kind of thing. Like, you've been chasing this thing. Mm-hmm. Now you've got it. And then you have that moment of like, what do I do with it?

Mm-hmm. Now that I'm here. , And so like there is some part of me that appreciated the realism of that but it's also like, it is also one of those things where it's like when you're lacking so much representation of like a certain community, , it's like, do we need that? Yeah. We already know that the popular thought around non-monogamy is, , a wild failure.

Yes. According to Dr. Phil.

Nichole: Yeah.

Daniel: Just like we're past the point where we kind of want or need all of our queer characters to die tragically.

Laurel: Right,

Nichole: right,

Laurel: right.

Nichole: I was disappointed. Because pretty much the whole time with Otto and Leo and at times Gilda, they've just been expressing themselves joy, especially in the last act.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Leo and Otto are all joy all the time. Yeah. They're just like joy machines.

Laurel: Yeah.

Nichole: Gilda finally like gets to join them in their joy machine.

Daniel: that's what my, that's what my unicorn hunting profile says. Come and join us in our joy machine,

Nichole: joy machine. and to have it kind of be undone.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: Yeah. With like doubt. It wasn't what I wanted.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah.

Nichole: but again, like that's a directorial choice,

Laurel: Yeah.

Actually it's interesting 'cause

I wonder like, how this was received in like, the thirties and forties when it came out.

'cause it's so easy to look at stuff like this and be like, the lack of monogamy is just like, it's a metaphor. Mm-hmm. It's a parallel , for whatever, you know, repressed lifestyle. Yeah. I think if you're not going into it with like non-monogamy on the minds, you might be looking for a metaphor.

Daniel: I feel like it was at this unique moment between the Ed Edwardian age and the fifties where there was this kind of effervescence in society. I think that queerness was a little bit more visible.

There was, , what was called, the pansy craze.

Laurel: The pansy craze.

Daniel: The pansy craze where there was suddenly a ton of queer visibility in like early cinema.

Laurel: Okay.

Daniel: Around this time.

Laurel: Mm-hmm.

Daniel: As well.

Nichole: You're right, there was like a, a moment pre-code moment

Daniel: Yeah.

Nichole: With cinema at least. Yeah. Where it was like way more gay, Marlena Dietrich, you know, making out with that lady,

Daniel: the world that cabaret takes place in before the fucking Nazis marching.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah,

Daniel: Is it Polly?

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: Yes,

Daniel: yes.

I was not expecting this to be such a full throated piece of polland from such an early point in history and I was quite impressed.

Nichole: Yeah, me too. Yeah.

What's next?

Daniel: Oh, we have a very special live human guest,

Laurel: a human being

Daniel: who we have lured into our podcast basement.

Nichole: Oh boy.

Laurel: Yet again?

Daniel: Yet again.

Laurel: I don't know why y'all keep coming.

Daniel: Laura wants to play praying mantis with your body and eat all the filling from your abdomen.

Laurel: Is that what they do? Just eat the filling from the abdomen.

Daniel: Make it clear. Oh,

Nichole: I don't think so. I think they bite off the head.

Daniel: Yeah, like civilized insects

Laurel: so you can get to the ECL filling in the abdomen.

Daniel: You, you know, who has a delicious ECL filling in their abdomen?

Laurel: I have an idea.

Daniel: Our very special guest for the podcast today, Joe John Sanchez.

Laurel: Sanchez Sanchez,

Daniel: I'm not sure whether they pronounce it with a long a or a short A or a hard A or a soft a

Laurel: mix.

Joe, John Sanchez. Okay. The third.

Daniel: The third. , Not model one, not model two. The perfected model, the third,

Nichole: we may have fucked up their name and we talked about how we're gonna rip off their head and eat their ECL insides. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: If they're gonna be real excited, if they know what's good for us.

Nichole: Oh God.

Laurel: For us.

Daniel (2): Exactly.

Joe John is a very successful local comedian who is always in the Portland's funniest showcases around town, and a good friend and touring partner with Mixed Dahlia Bell, a regular at our Star Trek nights, I might say.

Laurel: So Bragadocious, you might.

Daniel: And now we are chain migrating all of the comedians into our podcast, like, good, , no Borders Anti-capitalist.

Laurel: Yes, yes. Precisely why we're doing this.

Daniel: So without further ado.

Laurel: A deep dup up.

Daniel: Let us introduce our meal for the evening

Nichole: Top,

Daniel: Joe John Sanchez, the third.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: I mean, you have to be smart to be a comedian unless you're a, unless you're a stadium comedian, in which case you cannot be.

Joe John: I just went on a run. So I'm always dumb brain after run. That's just like, I like that. Yeah. You come with Debo Energy.

Nichole: So you're stadium comedian right

Joe John: now?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm stadium comedian after a run.

Nichole: Yeah. We should just get you a mic and you can just yell into it. Yeah, absolutely. You just yell obscenities.

Joe John: Yeah.

Nichole: Ooh. That's all they do.

Daniel: Do you need, do you need to screw the microphone?

Joe John: Uh,

Daniel: off the, uh, off the thing and then pace around?

Joe John: Oh, a little bit. Yeah. I

Daniel: did leave a pause there.

Screw the

Joe John: mic. Yeah. I was like, um, am I gonna hump the microphone? Am I that kind of comedian?

Daniel: Well, you are the first guest that we've had on who we have seen Naked.

Joe John: About what?

Laurel: What? Wait, what?

Joe John: What are you talking about?

Laurel: Yeah. What are you talking about?

Daniel: Hump.

Joe John: Are you sure?

Daniel: Was that not you?

Laurel: Wait,

Joe John: unless I I I might have been filmed without my consent.

Nichole: What are you talking about?

Daniel: I thought that was totally, remember we left and I was like, I think that was Joe John Sanchez.

Nichole: Oh wow. So you thought it was Joe John and just assumed it was Joe John and was gonna spring on Joe John. Yeah. We saw you naked.

Joe John: That's

Daniel: been, that's the only, that's the only reason we we've had you on is because I've been fantasizing nonstop.

Joe John: Um, okay. So the thing is, it wouldn't be that surprising if you saw me naked. I run a naked show at the Eagle. Oh. Like every three months. , And I'm me. So it's like I'm not opposed to being there, but I've never been in Hump.

And I was like, wow, have I been in Hump? And I didn't know it that be, this was this amazing.

Daniel: Was this before you stopped drinking three months ago,

Laurel: right?

Joe John: Yeah. Yeah. I just signed in consent forms blacked out drunk.

Nichole: Okay, so what is, what does having a naked show mean?

Joe John: Um, so it, it's clothing optional technically.

Nichole: Okay.

Joe John: Um, which means that I don't ever wanna be like, you have to get naked

Nichole: legally. I don't think you can.

Joe John: Yeah. No, but like, , they have a naked pool night every Thursday, so I was like going for a while. , And because it's just good people watching. Yeah. Wait,

Nichole: what does that mean? You have to play pool

Joe John: naked?

You don't have to play pool naked, but you can play pool naked with your

Daniel: Dingling. It, it's, it's like, oh, it's the more effective, the more turned on you are,

Joe John: God. because they had that night, I like, was like, would you do a naked comedy night? And they were like, yeah. So I did it and it's like surprising the people who did get naked on it. Like I, I like would book people and I'd be like, they're not gonna get naked.

Maybe they'll take their shirt off and then like all of a sudden, like this local headlining comedian is like butt ass naked on the stage. And I'm like, Uhhuh, you, you know, you didn't have to do that.

Nichole: Is the audience naked

Joe John: sometimes? Um, and I always thought they were, that they were respectfully naked all the time.

I was under that impression. , I was like, yeah, like sometimes there are gonna be guys who are just there naked and they're just like, nudist and this is their thing. And they were excited to like, come watch a comedy show Naked.

Daniel: Wait, come watch

Joe John: God. Nobody to my knowledge has come at this show. Um, but

Daniel: what defines to your knowledge, what defines the politely naked?

Joe John: So, so. Like not touching themselves during the sets. Okay. Yes, yes, yes, yes. You know, , and, , one of my, this sounds weirder than it is, I teach comedy to adults. So one of my former students did like a guest set at one of the shows. Um, and he was recounting it and he was like, I was telling this like really traumatic dark joke and I saw this guy in the front row and gradually he was just getting harder and harder.

Oh my God. During this really dark joke, God, and I, like, I've been telling people they're respectful. This is, wow. I'm just oblivious. Everyone's like, yeah, I did that show and everyone was rock hard.

Daniel: I mean, are you flattered? Are you flattered? Are you,

Joe John: I don't know. I, I I hope he was, but like

Daniel: this is not a good show for Hannah Gadsby.

Joe John: Yeah.

Nichole: That is a level of reaction response you cannot gauge unless people are naked. Right. And like you wouldn't think

Joe John: Yeah.

Nichole: To ga like, haha, I'm telling a joke.

How turned on I

Daniel: So ever, ever since then, do now you believe that. Every show that you're doing, like you just can't see. But they're all just rock hard under their

Joe John: clothes. I don't feel that way. However, the last one, so this is always the thing, like the eagle plays porn on all the TV screens. Yeah. It's like sort of a thing.

And the first show they were like, do you want us to turn it off? And I was like, no. It's hilarious. Yeah. But like, it's hilarious when it's like. Just normal vanilla gay porn. And then sometimes you look over and it's like, oh, someone's getting fisted.

Laurel: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Daniel: And now that's really flattering if they're watching your mouth.

Usually when a fist is going in someone's ass,

Joe John: usually everyone ignores it. , There's one comic who commented upon it, it was one time, , and they were like, yeah, they have this Black Lives Matter signed outside, but that clearly doesn't apply to the porn in here. Oh my God.

It was bold and it was right. Um, and , then like one other person just like got distracted mid set and I was like, okay. Um, you know, normally we don't comment upon it, but then I got distracted by it. But it wasn't because of the porn. It was just like, I want that outfit.

Laurel: Correct.

Joe John: Yeah. It was like a seventies vintage thing and I was like, oh, I want those little short running shorts.

Laurel: Hell

Daniel: Thank you for coming on the show.

Joe, John?

Joe John: Yeah. Great start.

Daniel: Do you always take both your names?

Joe John: Um, yes. Uh, and this is because, um, my full name is Joseph John Sanchez ii. Um, and I don't like my dad.

Daniel: Okay. Is it like a passive aggressive thing

Joe John: toward your dad? Uh, well, my dad's like Joe, um, and I, for most of my life I went by Joe and then I went to college. So I was like, I'll just go by Joe, John in college. Um, and I did for four years and then I entered the corporate world and I was like, no one's gonna take me seriously if I go by Joe, John. So I went back to Joe and then I was like, no.

Laurel: And then you're like, do I actually wanna be taken seriously?

Joe John: Yeah. No, I don't. Especially, yeah. It's like when I started doing comedy, I was like, it's jojo.

Daniel: Well, if you're a comedian, you don't leave the third on the table, you have to fucking use the third. Right. Yeah. I feel that that automatically makes you like. Uh, like a jovial Duke.

Joe John: Yeah. Or Earl, you know, but in the beginning everyone was like, this name is so long.

Ugh, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, shut

Nichole: up. Who? Everyone.

Marque people, people putting up signs of

Joe John: Marquis. Well, no. Nobody's putting my name on a marquee.

Nichole: Not yet. If I had one

Daniel: for our poster for this episode, we're gonna put your name on a marquee.

Joe John: Perfect.

Nichole: Yes. That's what I want. Uhhuh. Yeah,

Joe John: absolutely.

Daniel: Unless it's too long.

Nichole: And I'm really sorry that I called.

Joe John: You could put it in like two lines.

Nichole: I'm sorry. I called them marquee people. I know that they have titles, marquee people.

Joe John: What is their title?

Daniel: De.

Nichole: What?

Joe John: I got it.

Nichole: Oh,

Joe John: I got it. Because I saw a play with the Marqui Daad where a like straight guy yelled a lot and he was like, I'm acting, I'm yelling and being violent and this is acting.

Daniel: That's how straight people can like act. It's the only way they know.

Joe John: Yeah. Like that marriage story thing with Adam Driver and Scarlett Johanson, where it's just they're yelling.

Daniel: It's

Nichole: just yelling. It's

Joe John: just yelling.

Nichole: That's all it is. And yelling. Yes.

Joe John: Ah.

Laurel: Well now I'm glad I haven't seen it.

Joe John: I haven't. I just saw the clip come mine.

Nichole: And this is why all stadium comedians are super straight. Yeah.

Laurel: Yes. Yeah.

Joe John: Yeah. They're just yelling. Oh, that's so true. Yeah. Wild insight.

Yeah.

It has nothing to do with homophobia or transphobia. Nope. Or nope.

Nichole: Or whiteness.

Daniel: I mean, its such a, it's such a rich comedic vein to mine. Oh, look at the powerless trans people.

Um. oh. You know that movie with, , Scarlet Johansson and Adam Driver? That's some toxic monogamy right there, right?

Joe John: It, it is.

Daniel: That's yes.

Joe John: Yeah.

Daniel: That's why they're yelling,

Joe John: uh, even though I've never seen it. Yeah, I can.

Laurel: Absolutely.

Joe John: Yeah, I bet me

Laurel: too. Yeah. Yep.

Joe John: Is this leading where? I think it's leading.

Daniel: Who's Scarlet Driver? Oh, that's a fucking great porn name.

Laurel: Scarlet Dr. Oh, that is

Joe John: actually, that is a really good name.

Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. , That leads us to our first segment with you today. We did one Without you. We started the, the foursome without you.

I'm sorry. Oh my

Joe John: God.

Laurel: Yeah.

Daniel: But now we're moving on. Feel

Joe John: betrayed.

Laurel: I'm sorry.

Daniel: That's how we, that's how we roll. That's how we, that's how we get people off Kilter and

Joe John: Psychosexual game.

Daniel: It was the alt title for this podcast.

Laurel: Psychosexual Psychosexual Games. Oh my God.

Daniel: Um, okay. Brings us to our next segment.

Monogamy. Are you okay?

Joe John: This feels like the flute that Willy Wonka summons.

The, or is it the MPA Summon. Oh yeah. Other, it's like, yeah. And then they're like,

Laurel: puzzle therapy.

Joe John: We're gonna be didactic little people that felt offensive.

Daniel: Didactic little people was also an alt title for the podcast. , Except Nicole is like, i'm not a little person. And I don't think that I can own that. I don't think that,

Laurel: yeah,

Daniel: I think that I,

Laurel: God, that is exactly how that would've gone.

Joe John: Yeah. Oh,

Daniel: that's a reproduction of a Star Trek flute.

Joe John: What?

Daniel: That's the one from the episode where Picard lives a whole life and he learns to play the flute that he comes back and he's sad. Wow. Um. That was 3D printed by a stubbert.

Laurel: Yeah.

Joe John: Okay. And it doesn't work.

Laurel: No, it

Daniel: doesn't work. No.

Laurel: No it

Joe John: doesn't. Okay.

Naturally. It's beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful. Okay.

Daniel: But you can wrestle and Roland Kirk, that shit, you know?

Joe John: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Daniel: Just like,

Joe John: um, you know, my boyfriend would get that reference. I don't, I'm so sorry. It's, it's okay. I'm not enough, a nerve of a nerd to be here.

Nichole: It's

Daniel: alright. It's fine. You can phone a friend.

Joe John: It's fine.

Laurel: Do you wanna say yet again? We found this little diddy on Reddit, on the, the monogamy subreddit.

Daniel: We should probably also say monogamy. Are you Okay? Is the segment where we look at examples of toxic monogamy on the internet and beyond? And ask the question

Laurel: monogamy.

Daniel: Yeah, Joe John's gonna do it as a fucking one. One.

Nichole: They heard a call and they were like, I need to respond

Daniel: with all together, all together with vocal fry. 1, 2, 3, Monomy. Are you, are you okay?

Laurel: That was nice.

Daniel: Yeah, it's pretty good.

Nichole: Alright, so we definitely, I mean, we again found this on the spool that is Reddit.

Um,

Daniel: specifically in the monogamy subreddit.

Nichole: Yes.

Joe John: I'm horrified already.

Daniel: This is like, this is like the people who think there's a war on Christmas. It's like these are, these are the, like there's a war on monogamy people.

Joe John: Well there is war torn Portland. Is that it? That's the war that just got confused about it.

Daniel: General Joe John Sanchez.

Nichole: Okay. I don't believe in absolute monogamy and it hurts me. Okay. Okay. All

Joe John: ready?

Nichole: I know that most people are in monogamous relationships. I also prefer monogamous relationships, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that it's impossible. People call their relationships monogamous, but they find loopholes that don't count as cheating.

For example, for many people, porn or strip clubs are normal. I consider this a loophole. I don't think that in a monogamous relationship you should be attracted to anyone other than your partner, and you certainly shouldn't find material featuring people who should arouse you. Maybe I'm abnormal. Maybe it's because of my insecurities.

Maybe it's because I feel asexual, so I've never looked at anyone other than my partner.

Daniel: Ooh.

Nichole: It's okay if you're asexual, dude. Like that's fine. Um, edit. I want to add that. I don't mean that you can't appreciate another person's attractiveness.

It's normal to find people attractive. I was specifically referring to arousal, and that's what I consider a loophole. If you're aroused by other people, I consider that a loophole. Do you know that this guy considers this a loophole?

Laurel: Like, know I'm confu, I'm confused. Like I get that they consider it a loophole, but like.

Like a loophole To what? Like is it a loophole? As in like, a tax loophole and like you shouldn't really be getting away with it, but you are and I'm mad about that. Or is it like a loophole? As an attacks loophole and if it's there, I'm gonna take advantage of it.

Nichole: I think the former but also like, it's like accepted forms of cheating.

Joe John: And this is definitely a guy, like the avatar is a guy. Oh, oh, that, that, that, that was the question I had.

Nichole: Dunno, it's two birds.

Joe John: Yeah. The avatar. Oh, it's two birds. Of course two birds would have that feeling. If I were two birds, I would be vaguely asexual. And also think that my partners should never be attracted to anyone else.

Nichole: I don't know that this person knows what asexuality is.

Joe John: That's also probably true.

Nichole: I'm sorry, I just don't, I don't think that they do.

Daniel: Wait, I'm thinking about how insecure I would be if I was two birds. Just 'cause I wouldn't know if you like which bird would you be attracted to? Are you attracted? Can you be attracted to two birds?

Joe John: Well, you couldn't believe in true monogamy. If you were two birds, you were with a person. This is true because then you're polyamorous.

Nichole: I'm waiting for the one stone joke to come through.

Joe John: Oh,

Nichole: it's not coming.

Joe John: It's not coming. Yeah.

Also, why is this a problem?

Like, it sounds like they have a fine relationship with their partner that they are just only having sex with. Um, and they're just like, ha, everyone out, there's going to strip clubs and that is bad.

Laurel: I, I don't know.

Joe John: They're just,

Laurel: yeah. Why are they hurt by it also? Have you discovered , their comment That is highly downvoted.

Nichole: Oh, oh,

Joe John: no. Ooh. Oh no.

Bring it on.

Laurel: It says, uh, this is the original poster. People on Reddit have often accused me of being a hypocrite or a prude because I make a living by drawing anime porn.

Daniel: This person, this person is like a fucking hydra. Like they've got three heads and they're, none of them really like, is aware of what the others are doing. Right? Oh

Joe John: my God. Yeah.

Daniel: Like,

they're, they're asexual. They make a living , drawing anime porn. They don't think anybody should be aroused by anyone who is not their partner, but they seem aroused by the loophole itself.

Laurel: So in this same comment, they go in say, maybe I'm a hypocrite, but I can clearly see the difference between a cartoon animated girl shut up

with huge breasts.

Joe John: Oh my God.

Laurel: And a real life actress slash dancer who has her own life in mental state. No,

Joe John: no.

Laurel: However, I don't care. No,

Joe John: this is the type of guy who's like, it's not cheating if it's an AI girlfriend. You know, like, and that, that that's the type of situation he's in. Like, it's like, oh, that's weird that, I mean, if it's just cartoons,

Daniel (2): I mean, if, if you're, if you're a penis possessor and you're like totally in the fucking, , is it Andrea din like that?

Like, penetration is violence then the only ethical sex is with inanimate objects and cartoon characters. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They can't have their own inner world. This person is upset. They think it's immoral to be aroused by somebody who has their own life going on.

Joe John: Except for their one partner and Jessica Rabbit.

Maybe not because it's anime, like, I don't know.

Laurel: It's too realistic.

Joe John: Sailor Moon,

Daniel: his eyes aren't big enough for me to get a hard on.

Laurel: Oh

my

Nichole: God. This is making my brain like, I feel like I can't follow.

Laurel: It's hard to follow because I'm not sure what any of the words actually mean to this person or to the other people commenting like,

Nichole: yeah, and there is a language barrier.

So like, who knows, right? There's a language barrier.

Daniel: You always assume that when it's written terribly, but you,

Nichole: and sometimes I'm right.

Laurel: Sometimes. Yeah.

Daniel: I mean maybe they only speak anime, so it's it's all translated. Yeah. It's all translated from

Joe John: yeah. I'm very confused,

is he taking commissions to draw anime porn or is he imagining it himself?

Because like, there is a line there too of like, he's like, I'm able to create these wild anime porn scenarios, but the moment it's real tits no, right.

Laurel: Yeah.

It's confusing.

Daniel: Should we, uh, get a commission? Should we

Joe John: Oh yeah.

Daniel: Should we

Nichole: reach out

Daniel: us as a, us as a trio, looking deeply ashamed. Oh. We'll include you, Joe, John.

Joe John: Oh, great. Thank

Daniel: you. Yeah.

Nichole: I want you to draw me an anime of somebody in a strip club getting aroused.

Daniel: Somebody in a fucking comedy club Getting aroused. Yeah. Oh,

Joe John: I don't

Daniel: Do you have a splash guard?

All right.

Laurel: Like, everything about this thread is just super confusing. Like some people are arguing like you can't control attraction or arousal. So I think you're being a little too crazy there. Uhhuh. But then there's other people that are like, they're like arguing with this person, even though they like, kind of agree with them.

this one comment is so fucking weird. They're just like, so you're not capable of controlling yourself or being accountable to another person, so you bang anyone you find attractive, like your cousins, what your brother, what your dad, your teacher, your boss, just whomever you're attracted to. And people upvoted that.

What, and, and the original poster, whom I agree with is like, I don't quite understand your point of view. Could you explain it more?

Daniel: Could you, could you describe in depth what it looks like for me to be fucking my cousin?

Nichole: Can you list more family members?

Laurel: What the

Nichole: fuck

Laurel: that you're assuming people are generally attracted to?

Like what,

Joe John: yeah. This is, this is, this is my personal hell. This entire thread. What is going to answer the question? Monogamy is not, okay.

Daniel: I don't even know if this is monogamy. I don't know if it's, if it's fucking polyamory and I don't know if it's anime. I'm just in, I'm in a weird liminal space, right now's.

It's

Joe John: so weird to be aroused. What? What is that?

Nichole: This is just people shouting at each other in a general vicinity of like kind of a topic that I think they might agree on or might not agree on.

Daniel: Are you explaining the internet to Joe John?

Nichole: Yes, I, and more so just like trying to verbalize it for myself because I feel like the longer I try and exist in this space, the more crazy I'm going to get.

Mm-hmm.

Laurel: Yes.

Nichole: Yeah. And then I'll become a non-verbal, just like puddle of person and you guys will not be able to revive me.

Daniel: now I'm getting aroused.

Laurel: Bad, bad,

Nichole: bad

Laurel: shame.